Mafia is an educated guessing game of epic proportions. The objective of the game is to lynch or kill all mafia members before they outnumber the rest of the town. It's much like a game of poker because mafia members are also part of the town during the day and may manipulate the vote to their liking. If the mafia at any time outnumber or equal the townspeople, they win. The town's goal is to lynch all the members of the mafia.
The game is typically very active, so the thread will get big quickly. However, it is essential to read the thread to play the game. If you do not have the time or patience to read the whole thread, do not play. I will not compensate for ignorance.
Rules:
Cheating: Cheating includes (but is not limited to): 1. Posting after death. You may have one polite goodbye post, but it may not contain any potentially game-changing information. 2. Ruining the game by doing something like hand out your mafia's member list to the town. 3. Logging on to someone else's account to get their role or looking over someone's shoulder to get their role. 4. Comparing role PM times to determine roles. 5. Posting screenshots of your inbox. 6. Posting or sharing any PM you receive from a host. 7. Getting yourself modkilled to help your team. Your non-majority-decided death may not be used as a bargaining chip. 8. Signing up more than once using smurf accounts. 9. Betting items outside of the game in exchange for in-game benefits. 10. Sharing accounts with other players. Only you may post on your account. 11. Breadcrumbing the specific phrasing of your role PM. Do not compare the phrasing in your role PM to prove your alignment. You can claim the abilities you have, but you can't use the specific phrasing of your role PM. 12. Posting a false role PM phrased as if you received it from the host. You can still fake roleclaim, but you cannot make it look like you are posting a PM you received from the host. Cheating is not tolerated here. The punishment will be severe.
Posting:
Mod Font: This is mod font. It is reserved for moderators. Please do not use it.
Questions DIFFERENT FROM STANDARD At no point are you allowed to use the thread to communicate with the host. If I see a green text asking me something, I will modkill you without warning. You can also not say "I'm going to ask the mods this" or "I have asked them this" or anything like that. If I think your question warrants the attention of the entire thread, I will just make an announcement and not reveal who asked the question.
Note: It's okay to ask in green, and actually encouraged, before the game starts. The more we can clarify pre-game, the less questions will rise during the game.
Activity: You must post in this thread once per day/night cycle and vote every day while you are alive. If you fail to do so, you will be modkilled.
Smurfs: This game does not accept smurfs.
Spam: Spam is not tolerated, nor is any off-topic material. Do not discuss Proleague here. Do not talk about Starcraft II here. Play Mafia here. This also means you should condense your posts when possible.
Encryption: Don't do it.
Editing: Editing is not allowed for any reason. Editing will result in a modkill and a 1-game ban. This is the one part of TL where it is okay to double post or even triple-post. While you should try to post as concisely as possible, post again if you have to edit anything.
Inappropriate posts: If you want to post something insulting or inappropriate and know the TL mods would have a problem with it elsewhere, don't post it here. If you do, a host will warn you or modkill you and request that you be banned from future games. The hosts have the final say on what is inappropriate. If you do not like how someone is talking to you, please PM the host, a co-host, or Blazinghand before involving the other TL staff. If you are unsatisfied with how the situation is resolved, then you can discuss the situation with other members of the TL staff.
Reporting posts: The report button is a nice feature for regular TL, but not for this forum. We prefer to deal with things in house if possible to avoid confusion among the TL staff. If you have a problem with how someone is posting, talk to the host, co-host, or Blazinghand before using your report button. Please do not use your report button for anything other than inappropriate posts which you feel are not being dealt with adequately.
Play to win. This means you play your best to help your team win while you are alive and in the game. However, this does not mean that you should try to win by being a jerk to the other players so they all want to quit playing.
This also means that you cannot leave the game without a good reason without getting banned. These situations will be dealt with on a case by case basis, but this is a very short game. Don't sign up if you can't commit.
You have been warned.
Out of thread communication:
It is common for mafia (and town circles if PMs are allowed) to use a medium outside of TL such as QuickTopics or IRC to communicate during the game. Please be mindful that other players may be more tech savvy than you and they may attempt impersonate members of your team or attempt to infiltrate your chat. You use these media at your own risk.
Observers If you would like to observe this game, please PM me for access to the observer QuickTopic. If you receive access to the observer QuickTopic, do not discuss this game with the players until this game is over.
Voting rules:
1. Voting is done in this thread. Please keep votes there, and only vote there. Do not PM me your vote. 2. Please vote in the following format: ##Vote Qatol. Votes not done in the correct fashion will not be counted. I will update vote counts whenever I get the chance. 3. No conditional voting. 4. You may vote for yourself. You may not vote for anyone dead or outside the game. You may vote for ##no lynch 5. Voting is not mandatory. You may abstain. 6. This game will use Instant Majority Lynch. I will try to post vote counts regularly. Once a person is hammered, please DO NOT POST until a host resolves the flip and the game enters night.
Signups:
This game is open to anyone. Signups will remain open until 7 spots have been filled.
Game-specific rules:
Modkills: This game follows the TL Mafia Ban List. If you are modkilled, you will be punished beyond being eliminated from this game. Please refer to the ban list thread for questions about your punishment. Please wait until this game is over to talk about modkills and bans resulting from this game.
Sitting Out: To sit out this game, you must do these two things during the signups of this game (assuming you are not currently sitting out a different game and the game in which you were banned has finished): 1. PM the host of this game, saying you are sitting out this game. 2. Post in the TL Mafia Ban List, saying that you are sitting out this game.
Note that because this is expected to be such a short game, I don't expect we will accept sitting out, but if you think you should be able to sit out this game, let me know and I'll think about it.
Replacements This game does not use replacements. Don't let your team down.
PMs PMs are not allowed in this game.
Time Cycle: This game will follow a 24 hour night/variable day cycle. For details see the game-specific rules below.
If you have not read all the rules, go back and do so. I will not compensate for ignorance!
This is an open setup. The following roles will be present in the game.
Cop Doctor Vanilla Town Vanilla Town Vanilla Town Mafia Goon Mafia Goon
Role PMs look like this (no colors).
Subject: Idiot Role
Welcome to Idiot Mafia. You are a Cop/Vanilla Town/Doctor/Mafia Goon
If it isn't obvious, Cops can investigate someone's alignment every night. There are no sanities. Doctors can protect one person from hit every night. The doctor cannot protect himself.
The game starts at night 0. The doctor CAN act during night 0. The doctor cannot protect himself. He may protect the same person in consecutive nights.
Between roles being sent out and the start of night 0, there will be 12 hours of strict silence. Roles will go out at 10:00 GMT (+00:00) and Night 0 will start at 22:00 GMT (+00:00).
Days last until a strict majority vote to lynch someone (or no lynch), at which point the day ends immediately. Artanis and I will try to post votecounts regularly, but once a majority vote is cast, the day ends. If no majority is reached before 48 hours, the day will end in a no lynch. You cannot unvote after the lynch has been hammered, and please stop talking even if the hosts are not around. Night will be 24 hours from the nightpost.
There are minimal notifications this game. Neither the doctor, nor his target will be notified of a save.
Extras
The previous game can be found here. Mafia won that game, so this game gets a slight buff to town in comparison. The next Idiot mafia game will continue this series, by making it increasingly town favoured if mafia continue to win, or adding a Mafia-favored mechanic if town win this game.
On January 17 2017 02:20 Acrofales wrote: The doctor cannot protect himself. He may protect the same person in consecutive nights.
I understand that you want to buff town but this looks like a Follow The Cop scenario in the making. Cop claims N0 and Doctor protects him while mafia tries to find the Doctor or get drawn into an instant counterclaim war (which essentially informs the Cop of 3/7 alignments by D1 if he isn't killed).
I'm not entirely sure why the standard Cop, Doctor, 5 VTs vs Mafia Goon, Mafia Roleblocker, D1 start setup isn't being used. I feel like I am missing something.
On January 17 2017 02:20 Acrofales wrote: The doctor cannot protect himself. He may protect the same person in consecutive nights.
I understand that you want to buff town but this looks like a Follow The Cop scenario in the making. Cop claims N0 and Doctor protects him while mafia tries to find the Doctor or get drawn into an instant counterclaim war (which essentially informs the Cop of 3/7 alignments by D1 if he isn't killed).
I'm not entirely sure why the standard Cop, Doctor, 5 VTs vs Mafia Goon, Mafia Roleblocker, D1 start setup isn't being used. I feel like I am missing something.
There is a bit more thought in it than that. It does require scum plays more proactively than usual to counteract the town roles. Hence why they have 12 hours to discuss what to do before the game starts.
On January 17 2017 02:20 Acrofales wrote: The doctor cannot protect himself. He may protect the same person in consecutive nights.
I understand that you want to buff town but this looks like a Follow The Cop scenario in the making. Cop claims N0 and Doctor protects him while mafia tries to find the Doctor or get drawn into an instant counterclaim war (which essentially informs the Cop of 3/7 alignments by D1 if he isn't killed).
I'm not entirely sure why the standard Cop, Doctor, 5 VTs vs Mafia Goon, Mafia Roleblocker, D1 start setup isn't being used. I feel like I am missing something.
There is a bit more thought in it than that. It does require scum plays more proactively than usual to counteract the town roles. Hence why they have 12 hours to discuss what to do before the game starts.
I'm not a balance expert so I don't know how valid my concerns are but I might suggest increasing that time to 24 hours (in case scum have different time-zones). This depends on who the scum team are though so I don't know if it's necessary.
Forcing scum to play more proactively is always a good thing.
In addition to the valid concerns Calix raised, I think it simply makes being vanilla town a lot less interesting in this setup when you're forced into a follow the cop on n0.
The super original version of this game had silent nights, which solves that problem while allowing the doctor to act. However the "allowed to talk" buff for town had to be countered somehow, hence the "doc inactive n0" nerf.
That being said, this is your setup, so your call.
Calix is right on the concern about it being "follow the cop" i mean, the cop should just claim on n0/d1 and have doc camp it. But at that same accord one of the mafia should CC it then in attempts to draw the doc themselves and kill cop.
I would much rather have the mafia have a factional roleblock just to prevent such scanrio. Cus no matter how good mafia plays, if the cop can generate more townfirms then mafia it makes no difference due to a potential POE.
are hydras allowed? if this gets addressed or has some sort of workaround to where its not just "cop claim, listen to results" i would love to do a hydra with silverwolf again
I thought of a roleblock. If town wins this one, that's something to consider next game. I also considered making the doctor a JK instead of a medic >:D
On January 18 2017 02:13 Acrofales wrote: I thought of a roleblock. If town wins this one, that's something to consider next game. I also considered making the doctor a JK instead of a medic >:D
On January 18 2017 02:13 Acrofales wrote: I thought of a roleblock. If town wins this one, that's something to consider next game. I also considered making the doctor a JK instead of a medic >:D
JK acts as a Cop if a mafia dies
No reason to not keep faction KP without an explicit delivery to make that not happen.
N0: Cop claims N0. Doc saves him. Mafia can't counterclaim by setup. Which completely removes the idea behind this setup...Mafia needs to hit the 1/4 at random. D1: Town will chose to not lynch D1 so cop can get second check unless mafia hit the 1/4. Game is over if town ml D1... N1-D2: If mafia hit the protected townie town will no lynch D2 going for check number 3. If that is at all needed.
D2: possibly 2 checks, 2 blues while within 3 townies vs 2 mafia... After 96 hours doing absolutely nothing.
On January 21 2017 00:22 Koshi wrote: What were you thinking?
N0: Cop claims N0. Doc saves him. Mafia can't counterclaim by setup. Which completely removes the idea behind this setup...Mafia needs to hit the 1/4 at random. D1: Town will chose to not lynch D1 so cop can get second check unless mafia hit the 1/4. Game is over if town ml D1... N1-D2: If mafia hit the protected townie town will no lynch D2 going for check number 3. If that is at all needed.
D2: possibly 2 checks, 2 blues while within 3 townies vs 2 mafia... After 96 hours doing absolutely nothing.
What makes you think mafia can't counterclaim? A 1 for 1 trade is a pretty good deal for mafia (it means they win unless the doctor pulls off a save).
What makes you think the doctor can protect the right cop? Mafia can shoot the cop if the doctor guesses wrong. Or maybe the doctor pulls off a save by correctly guessing that mafia won't shoot the cop, and protects someone else.
The reason we don't have a silent night is also to allow the mafia to go blue hunting. By the way, we talked it over and silent nights make very little difference. It just makes N0 completely luck based, rather than an interesting addition to the game. No blue hunting is possible, and similarly, the cop check is completely uninformed.
On January 21 2017 00:22 Koshi wrote: What were you thinking?
N0: Cop claims N0. Doc saves him. Mafia can't counterclaim by setup. Which completely removes the idea behind this setup...Mafia needs to hit the 1/4 at random. D1: Town will chose to not lynch D1 so cop can get second check unless mafia hit the 1/4. Game is over if town ml D1... N1-D2: If mafia hit the protected townie town will no lynch D2 going for check number 3. If that is at all needed.
D2: possibly 2 checks, 2 blues while within 3 townies vs 2 mafia... After 96 hours doing absolutely nothing.
What makes you think mafia can't counterclaim? A 1 for 1 trade is a pretty good deal for mafia (it means they win unless the doctor pulls off a save).
What makes you think the doctor can protect the right cop? Mafia can shoot the cop if the doctor guesses wrong. Or maybe the doctor pulls off a save by correctly guessing that mafia won't shoot the cop, and protects someone else.
The reason we don't have a silent night is also to allow the mafia to go blue hunting. By the way, we talked it over and silent nights make very little difference. It just makes N0 completely luck based, rather than an interesting addition to the game. No blue hunting is possible, and similarly, the cop check is completely uninformed.
Like.. You do understand that if mafia counterclaims they allow the real cop to got for a 1/5 N0 to win and a 1/3 N1 for the win right? Unless mafia hits the 1/4 during N0. Then cop only wins 1/5 on N0.
So 1/5+1/3= 8/15 chance town autowins because a counterclaim that literally does nothing except the counterclaiming mafia making the cop pool smaller and mafia not being allowed to shoot the cop during N1 and N0 if they want to go real ballsie.
Welcome to Idiot Mafia. You are a Cop/Vanilla Town/Doctor/Mafia Goon
If it isn't obvious, Cops can investigate someone's alignment every night. There are no sanities. Doctors can protect one person from hit every night. The doctor cannot protect himself.
The game starts at night 0. The doctor CAN act during night 0. The doctor cannot protect himself. He may protect the same person in consecutive nights.
On January 21 2017 00:33 Acrofales wrote: What makes you think the doctor can protect the right cop? Mafia can shoot the cop if the doctor guesses wrong. Or maybe the doctor pulls off a save by correctly guessing that mafia won't shoot the cop, and protects someone else.
The doc doesn't protect a cop when 2 cops claim. If mafia shoots the cop they simply trade 1 vs 1 and it is 4 vs 1 going in n1....
What is that?
And depending on the fact mafia is able to hold their shot the doc can just toss a coin and protect a cop and if there is no nk town wins a ml and they know who the real cop is when the doc claims. Then the doc will be shot N1 but the cop has 2 checks.
nha when 2 cops claim town doc should just let the cop get shot. 4 vs 1 is pretty ok for town going into N1, then 3 vs 1 if doc can't save, if he can save ezgame.
On January 21 2017 00:33 Acrofales wrote: What makes you think the doctor can protect the right cop? Mafia can shoot the cop if the doctor guesses wrong. Or maybe the doctor pulls off a save by correctly guessing that mafia won't shoot the cop, and protects someone else.
The doc doesn't protect a cop when 2 cops claim. If mafia shoots the cop they simply trade 1 vs 1 and it is 4 vs 1 going in n1....
What is that?
And depending on the fact mafia is able to hold their shot the doc can just toss a coin and protect a cop and if there is no nk town wins a ml and they know who the real cop is when the doc claims. Then the doc will be shot N1 but the cop has 2 checks.
I won't theorycraft with you in here. Everybody can figure all this out. And because everybody can figure this out, scum has 12 hours to figure it out together before the game and craft a plan to deal with this. But the game is called town's revenge for a reason. It's supposed to be a bit harder for scum than the vanilla setup.
I don't think the balance is terrible, though. Scum has to be proactive, but has a pretty fair shot.
On January 21 2017 01:01 Koshi wrote: nha when 2 cops claim town doc should just let the cop get shot. 4 vs 1 is pretty ok for town going into N1, then 3 vs 1 if doc can't save, if he can save ezgame.
I promise what drove me away won't draw me away this time.
Plus Palmar here, and he always drives me to greatness
Send me your driver's license then you can't drive anywhere! =D
That doesn't look like a /in, but I believe you meant to write that.
Come on, one more player! You know you want to!
a) dont really have the time atm b) I am currently banned. though I kinda already sat out, but it seems iamp is not around to confirm or something. but cause a) I am not too much in ahurry anyways.
This might be the worst impulse decision I've made in a while, but what the heck. If someone else wants the spot, they are more than welcome to it, but otherwise, /in
On January 31 2017 07:30 Acrofales wrote: calix was just replaced out of the other ongoing game, so this game is delayed until either calix is back, or someone else joins in
On January 31 2017 07:30 Acrofales wrote: calix was just replaced out of the other ongoing game, so this game is delayed until either calix is back, or someone else joins in
On January 31 2017 07:30 Acrofales wrote: calix was just replaced out of the other ongoing game, so this game is delayed until either calix is back, or someone else joins in
On February 09 2017 11:04 ritoky wrote: does it really though? i mean we aren't allowed to talk for like 12 hrs so has the game really started at that point?
No talking between 11AM and 11PM. After that, when N0 starts, talk all you like.
The conquest of Liquiville by Chairman Ray and Koshi had spread terror throughout the land of Liquidia. With such a strong base, who could possibly stand up to this new terror?
Enter the staunch defenders of Liquistad. Our tale continues here...
It is now Night 0. You may talk, and in fact, are encouraged to do so. Action deadline is in .
Optimal play for mafia is to counterclaim, if they don't they have a chance of losing the game outright, and even if they don't that significantly cuts down their chance of winning.
Optimal play for the doctor is to not claim and protect the cop claim he believes the most. Not that it really matters because it's suboptimal for the mafia to shoot the cop anyway, because that just confirms their counterclaim as mafia, making the game equally hard, with the added risk that in 50% of games the doc protects correctly and mafia just loses outright.
Optimal play for town is to play like townies and figure out which cop is real.
I will be checking into a pool of 5 people, 1 of them will be mafia (I won't check myself and I won't check the counterclaim). If any of you can sound enough like town so I can rule you out from being checked on n0 or n1, that'd be great.
We will never lynch on day 1, unless something amazing like mafia just being really bad and not putting up any kind of a fight and I get a red check, in which case we can move the game along. If even 1 single person is not on my side in the counterclaim wars, we just sleep, get another check for both the cops" and make the decision in a 3v2 lylo with 2 cops and 2 checks from each of them, that is the maximum amount of information we can have.
On February 10 2017 07:23 LightningStrike wrote: With that being said idk if it makes palmar scum or trying to bait a shot on him instead the real cop (me).
On February 10 2017 07:25 Rels wrote: yeah a cc war already if I had to decide with 0 info Palmar would be the one I lynch. More his type to do this kind of play than LS
On February 10 2017 07:25 Rels wrote: yeah a cc war already if I had to decide with 0 info Palmar would be the one I lynch. More his type to do this kind of play than LS
Well it night 0 I going to check him.
lol no you aren't. If you're cop he's scum. This is the setup. You're checking anyone but him
On February 10 2017 07:25 Rels wrote: yeah a cc war already if I had to decide with 0 info Palmar would be the one I lynch. More his type to do this kind of play than LS
Well it night 0 I going to check him.
lol no you aren't. If you're cop he's scum. This is the setup. You're checking anyone but him
On February 10 2017 07:25 Rels wrote: yeah a cc war already if I had to decide with 0 info Palmar would be the one I lynch. More his type to do this kind of play than LS
Tbh if Palmar is town idk why he wanted to claim cop (my role) other than trying to take the shot but if he's scum he was trying to get the doc on to him to not protect me.
On February 10 2017 07:35 LightningStrike wrote: Tbh if Palmar is town idk why he wanted to claim cop (my role) other than trying to take the shot but if he's scum he was trying to get the doc on to him to not protect me.
Jesus please
I cannot be town because I am not retarded enough to fake claim cop as town, it's terrible to do so.
Which brings me to, if this is a stunt, and you're trying to give me a hint that you're actually fake claiming by talking about it, just retract, because it's 100% useless to fake cop as town in this setup. So if you somehow are town and thought it was a good idea, stop RIGHT NOW. I cba dealing with a more complex game than I have to.
Like just so we're clear LS, if you don't retract in the next 10 minutes, I'm just gonna stop talking to you and focus on other things, as I will forever and always consider you scum this game after that. I will never change my mind even if I fucking check you and you come back green. (which I won't, because I'm not retarded).
On February 10 2017 07:35 LightningStrike wrote: Tbh if Palmar is town idk why he wanted to claim cop (my role) other than trying to take the shot but if he's scum he was trying to get the doc on to him to not protect me.
Jesus please
I cannot be town because I am not retarded enough to fake claim cop as town, it's terrible to do so.
Which brings me to, if this is a stunt, and you're trying to give me a hint that you're actually fake claiming by talking about it, just retract, because it's 100% useless to fake cop as town in this setup. So if you somehow are town and thought it was a good idea, stop RIGHT NOW. I cba dealing with a more complex game than I have to.
Well for one I am the real cop and will get you lynched. I not talking to confirmed scum anymore.
On February 10 2017 07:35 LightningStrike wrote: Tbh if Palmar is town idk why he wanted to claim cop (my role) other than trying to take the shot but if he's scum he was trying to get the doc on to him to not protect me.
Jesus please
I cannot be town because I am not retarded enough to fake claim cop as town, it's terrible to do so.
Which brings me to, if this is a stunt, and you're trying to give me a hint that you're actually fake claiming by talking about it, just retract, because it's 100% useless to fake cop as town in this setup. So if you somehow are town and thought it was a good idea, stop RIGHT NOW. I cba dealing with a more complex game than I have to.
Well for one I am the real cop and will get you lynched. I not talking to confirmed scum anymore.
from my perspective the cop check should always be on vivax or malongo.
palmar and ls have made themselves binary. rels, palmar, and damdred all have a good read on me and 1 of them is guaranteed not mafia. i have a soul read on damdred that is probably at least still partially functional. i am confident i can read rels quite well
On February 10 2017 08:18 ritoky wrote: from my perspective the cop check should always be on vivax or malongo.
palmar and ls have made themselves binary. rels, palmar, and damdred all have a good read on me and 1 of them is guaranteed not mafia. i have a soul read on damdred that is probably at least still partially functional. i am confident i can read rels quite well
On February 10 2017 08:01 LightningStrike wrote: I really depressed about the activity here :/
why?
Because I want to find the second scum or at least be able to figure better who I want to check.
and whining about activity an hour into the game makes that happen how?
I thought it would be more active now tbh.
right but rather than say "wahhhhh activity". perhaps "i like rels cuz he wants to lynch palmar" or "i don't like rels cuz he was quick to judge and told me what to do" would have been a better avenue to inspire response. because then, perhaps we have some relevant material where we can have discourse.
On February 10 2017 08:18 ritoky wrote: from my perspective the cop check should always be on vivax or malongo.
palmar and ls have made themselves binary. rels, palmar, and damdred all have a good read on me and 1 of them is guaranteed not mafia. i have a soul read on damdred that is probably at least still partially functional. i am confident i can read rels quite well
so that leaves vivax and malongo.
Why Vivax and Malongo? Just curious.
i literally just detailed why you, palmar, me, damdred, and rels are all poor choices.....like wat?
On February 10 2017 08:18 ritoky wrote: from my perspective the cop check should always be on vivax or malongo.
palmar and ls have made themselves binary. rels, palmar, and damdred all have a good read on me and 1 of them is guaranteed not mafia. i have a soul read on damdred that is probably at least still partially functional. i am confident i can read rels quite well
so that leaves vivax and malongo.
Why Vivax and Malongo? Just curious.
i literally just detailed why you, palmar, me, damdred, and rels are all poor choices.....like wat?
On February 10 2017 08:18 ritoky wrote: from my perspective the cop check should always be on vivax or malongo.
palmar and ls have made themselves binary. rels, palmar, and damdred all have a good read on me and 1 of them is guaranteed not mafia. i have a soul read on damdred that is probably at least still partially functional. i am confident i can read rels quite well
so that leaves vivax and malongo.
Why Vivax and Malongo? Just curious.
i literally just detailed why you, palmar, me, damdred, and rels are all poor choices.....like wat?
Well I didn't read it well I pretty tired........
so you want people to be active, but don't read beyond the first 10 words. cool.
On February 10 2017 08:01 LightningStrike wrote: I really depressed about the activity here :/
why?
Because I want to find the second scum or at least be able to figure better who I want to check.
and whining about activity an hour into the game makes that happen how?
I thought it would be more active now tbh.
right but rather than say "wahhhhh activity". perhaps "i like rels cuz he wants to lynch palmar" or "i don't like rels cuz he was quick to judge and told me what to do" would have been a better avenue to inspire response. because then, perhaps we have some relevant material where we can have discourse.
On February 10 2017 08:01 LightningStrike wrote: I really depressed about the activity here :/
why?
Because I want to find the second scum or at least be able to figure better who I want to check.
and whining about activity an hour into the game makes that happen how?
I thought it would be more active now tbh.
right but rather than say "wahhhhh activity". perhaps "i like rels cuz he wants to lynch palmar" or "i don't like rels cuz he was quick to judge and told me what to do" would have been a better avenue to inspire response. because then, perhaps we have some relevant material where we can have discourse.
I pretty sure he can do that as both alignments.
I forgot you're more of a reactionary player than a proactive player. Not everyone takes stances that they don't necessarily 100% believe as a method of prodding or driving conversation.
Let me say I believe ls here, just because I don't think he has the balls (no offense to ls) to go for the cc in Palmar like that.
I kinda like rels so far tbh. Though kinda a bad reason in my mind to why I think he's town. Besides the bad reason I did like he a as actively looking at ls posts to weigh in on who's town.
And rit well, hi baby I missed you. But seriously I like rit tone here and his somewhat questioning of ls, like his attitude.
On February 10 2017 07:23 LightningStrike wrote: With that being said idk if it makes palmar scum or trying to bait a shot on him instead the real cop (me).
lol this is townie too
With rels I think this post makes me like him to expound a bit on it.
On February 10 2017 08:18 ritoky wrote: from my perspective the cop check should always be on vivax or malongo.
palmar and ls have made themselves binary. rels, palmar, and damdred all have a good read on me and 1 of them is guaranteed not mafia. i have a soul read on damdred that is probably at least still partially functional. i am confident i can read rels quite well
so that leaves vivax and malongo.
Why Vivax and Malongo? Just curious.
i literally just detailed why you, palmar, me, damdred, and rels are all poor choices.....like wat?
Well I didn't read it well I pretty tired........
so you want people to be active, but don't read beyond the first 10 words. cool.
Being on mobile and beign tired at the same time didn't help :
On February 10 2017 08:01 LightningStrike wrote: I really depressed about the activity here :/
why?
Because I want to find the second scum or at least be able to figure better who I want to check.
and whining about activity an hour into the game makes that happen how?
I thought it would be more active now tbh.
right but rather than say "wahhhhh activity". perhaps "i like rels cuz he wants to lynch palmar" or "i don't like rels cuz he was quick to judge and told me what to do" would have been a better avenue to inspire response. because then, perhaps we have some relevant material where we can have discourse.
I pretty sure he can do that as both alignments.
I forgot you're more of a reactionary player than a proactive player. Not everyone takes stances that they don't necessarily 100% believe as a method of prodding or driving conversation.
I sometimes proactive but more reactionary there some truth in that but it because I better at analyzing stuff when more come in.
On February 10 2017 08:46 Damdred wrote: Let me say I believe ls here, just because I don't think he has the balls (no offense to ls) to go for the cc in Palmar like that.
I kinda like rels so far tbh. Though kinda a bad reason in my mind to why I think he's town. Besides the bad reason I did like he a as actively looking at ls posts to weigh in on who's town.
And rit well, hi baby I missed you. But seriously I like rit tone here and his somewhat questioning of ls, like his attitude.
Hi
I also think he's townie atm with his questioning towards me.
On February 10 2017 08:54 Damdred wrote: But ls (I'm sorry about last game), why the hesitation about saying palmar 100% scum and hedging like you were?
I have an opinion based on experience but I want to see what ls says.
Because sometimes there is pants on head town like sicklucker who would pull what palmar did as town and so I engaged with otheres and concluded that he's confirmed scum unless he's sicklucker.
On February 10 2017 08:46 Damdred wrote: Let me say I believe ls here, just because I don't think he has the balls (no offense to ls) to go for the cc in Palmar like that.
I kinda like rels so far tbh. Though kinda a bad reason in my mind to why I think he's town. Besides the bad reason I did like he a as actively looking at ls posts to weigh in on who's town.
And rit well, hi baby I missed you. But seriously I like rit tone here and his somewhat questioning of ls, like his attitude.
Hi
I also think he's townie atm with his questioning towards me.
There is another reason I think rit is town by its total meta and I don't want him to change it!
"I don't like that Palmar guy. Everything he said seemed pre-meditated, and people who tend to think of all that junk ahead of time are hiding stuff. But he also sounds smart, and smart people make sense. So I don't know, he wrote a bunch of stuff that is probably all factually correct; but can't anyone do that if they're as smart as him anyway?"
"Oh wow, that Lightning guy seems genuinely excited that he did something and wants everyone to notice him....Oh wait now he's whining...I don't like whiners, can you vote on him now?"
ritoky: I whine a lot
"Who said I liked you? Anyways I don't know he sounds weird. Why don't you just vote both of them off the island?"
ritoky: 1 of them has to be mafia and the other one town.
"But you can just vote them both off anyways right? Cuz then you get 1 for sure."
ritoky: From a procedural pov, you kinda can't.
"Well that's dumb, you should be able to. They both sound bad, I wouldn't agonize over it; I would just pick one without thinking too hard about it and if you lose oh well, just blame the person who got voted off for not being good."
On February 10 2017 08:46 Damdred wrote: Let me say I believe ls here, just because I don't think he has the balls (no offense to ls) to go for the cc in Palmar like that.
I kinda like rels so far tbh. Though kinda a bad reason in my mind to why I think he's town. Besides the bad reason I did like he a as actively looking at ls posts to weigh in on who's town.
And rit well, hi baby I missed you. But seriously I like rit tone here and his somewhat questioning of ls, like his attitude.
Hi
I also think he's townie atm with his questioning towards me.
There is another reason I think rit is town by its total meta and I don't want him to change it!
On February 10 2017 08:59 LightningStrike wrote: I am starting to think Damdred is town here so at least that is a good start for me.
Rip means scrum will shoot me because of this.
As for your other post ls I kinda believe you and seems more like your town mindset.
As for my thing well it's just a story about how we played something like this on voice and . Palmar did the same thing to me as it looks like he is doing here.
On February 10 2017 08:59 LightningStrike wrote: I am starting to think Damdred is town here so at least that is a good start for me.
Rip means scrum will shoot me because of this.
As for your other post ls I kinda believe you and seems more like your town mindset.
As for my thing well it's just a story about how we played something like this on voice and . Palmar did the same thing to me as it looks like he is doing here.
Do yeah plus what hi said earlier.
I sort of remember him doing it on voice but it been a long time plus I am a bit tired still. Can you explain the bolded a little bit better because I can't decipher what you trying to say there :\
wasn't there once upon a time when everyone, including a couple in this game, told me "LS isn't capable of making a big play like that he lacks courage or w/e" while i told them he was mafia. then he was mafia.
i could be wrong in my memory since i turned a whopping 27 2 days ago. i just would rather not be sold the "outside of his range of play" line of thought and give it any real credence. + Show Spoiler +
On February 10 2017 08:59 LightningStrike wrote: I am starting to think Damdred is town here so at least that is a good start for me.
Rip means scrum will shoot me because of this.
As for your other post ls I kinda believe you and seems more like your town mindset.
As for my thing well it's just a story about how we played something like this on voice and . Palmar did the same thing to me as it looks like he is doing here.
Do yeah plus what hi said earlier.
I sort of remember him doing it on voice but it been a long time plus I am a bit tired still. Can you explain the bolded a little bit better because I can't decipher what you trying to say there :\
Rit basically answered, earlier I said I think this is out of your play depth currently. (Basically)
@rit you did say that in another game. But do you really think that ls is laying here? Is it just a feeling of something from his posts.
On February 10 2017 09:10 ritoky wrote: wasn't there once upon a time when everyone, including a couple in this game, told me "LS isn't capable of making a big play like that he lacks courage or w/e" while i told them he was mafia. then he was mafia.
i could be wrong in my memory since i turned a whopping 27 2 days ago. i just would rather not be sold the "outside of his range of play" line of thought and give it any real credence. + Show Spoiler +
clearwater revival
Blame Damdred because me and Damdred abused our meta tells together in Cell he still can read me well but he had a off game last game although I didn't play exactly good at all but was right about one person being scum.
On February 10 2017 08:59 LightningStrike wrote: I am starting to think Damdred is town here so at least that is a good start for me.
Rip means scrum will shoot me because of this.
As for your other post ls I kinda believe you and seems more like your town mindset.
As for my thing well it's just a story about how we played something like this on voice and . Palmar did the same thing to me as it looks like he is doing here.
Do yeah plus what hi said earlier.
I sort of remember him doing it on voice but it been a long time plus I am a bit tired still. Can you explain the bolded a little bit better because I can't decipher what you trying to say there :\
Rit basically answered, earlier I said I think this is out of your play depth currently. (Basically)
@rit you did say that in another game. But do you really think that ls is laying here? Is it just a feeling of something from his posts.
On February 10 2017 08:59 LightningStrike wrote: I am starting to think Damdred is town here so at least that is a good start for me.
Rip means scrum will shoot me because of this.
As for your other post ls I kinda believe you and seems more like your town mindset.
As for my thing well it's just a story about how we played something like this on voice and . Palmar did the same thing to me as it looks like he is doing here.
Do yeah plus what hi said earlier.
I sort of remember him doing it on voice but it been a long time plus I am a bit tired still. Can you explain the bolded a little bit better because I can't decipher what you trying to say there :\
Rit basically answered, earlier I said I think this is out of your play depth currently. (Basically)
@rit you did say that in another game. But do you really think that ls is laying here? Is it just a feeling of something from his posts.
i think there's basically nothing either way for now. i think i naturally tend to be more compelled to palmar's side since he gives reads and speaks in a manner that has more clarity for me personally; whereas with LS there's a lot of ....uh...flailing? that he naturally does that inherent makes me tend negative on him.
for palmar it's in his wheelhouse as a considered play as both cop or mafia, for LS i think it's in his wheelhouse to snap make a yolo reactive play.
had the shoe been on the other foot and LS had claimed and palmar had cc'd i think i probably overwhelmingly believe ls. which seems weird to me, but is mostly based on the nature of who they are and the setup. who cares i won't be around the make the call anyway, my ass will get shot n0.
the whole "we can still be friends" post LS made to check to see if palmar would back down, i had the opposite reaction to, cuz that's in the range of general tactics i try to do as mafia.
i did like rels "no bitch, you do this" post toward LS too.
I say Palmar´s plan first day is good enough, we can´t risk 50/50 on a DT and we don´t really have much of a choice outside Palmar/LS.
I think LS is mafia cc poorly, his posting does´t really make sense if he was a green trying to get a hit. I mean the whole idea about first day claiming from palmar is getting a medic on him and making mafia gamble.
Rels looks green, already pointed out by ritoky.
If i was the DT id be checking Damred.
Just to let you know, I am the medic and Palmar is getting protected tonight. I am claiming because its unlikely mafia will gamble a hit on me now that
On February 10 2017 07:34 Palmar wrote: Although it would be fairly fitting for us to lose this game because town got unlucky and someone who's not a dumbass rolled cop
On February 10 2017 15:17 Malongo wrote: I mean the whole idea about first day claiming from palmar is getting a medic on him and making mafia gamble.
On the contrary, if he is mafia he is effectively reducing the game to a 1v1 between him and the cop assuming no saves; and essentially laying down a gauntlet saying "I will outplay you, force town to make the wrong call and lose instantly". The play he made cuts both ways. It places himself in a fulcrum position, which I think tickles what ego Palmar has in just the right spot.
On February 10 2017 15:17 Malongo wrote: I mean the whole idea about first day claiming from palmar is getting a medic on him and making mafia gamble.
On the contrary, if he is mafia he is effectively reducing the game to a 1v1 between him and the cop assuming no saves; and essentially laying down a gauntlet saying "I will outplay you, force town to make the wrong call and lose instantly". The play he made cuts both ways. It places himself in a fulcrum position, which I think tickles what ego Palmar has in just the right spot.
The problem is Palmer being mafia makes LS the real DT or green wich makes 0 sense to me given his posting.
On February 10 2017 15:46 ritoky wrote: Also hi vivax, how have you been? Have people stopped calling you tinfoil since I have faded into the mist?
I have had 2 life changing experiences since I have been away, thanks for asking in advance!
1. You were diagnosed with a metabolic disease 2. You started drinking milk from plastic bags?
I am already diabetic. Rude! Also I might be Canadian soon so maybe I should try to unlearn 27 years of habitual insulting of the polite people to the North.
You said you have no inclination of who is mafia thus far. Do you have any inclination of who is not mafia?
On February 10 2017 15:17 Malongo wrote: I mean the whole idea about first day claiming from palmar is getting a medic on him and making mafia gamble.
On the contrary, if he is mafia he is effectively reducing the game to a 1v1 between him and the cop assuming no saves; and essentially laying down a gauntlet saying "I will outplay you, force town to make the wrong call and lose instantly". The play he made cuts both ways. It places himself in a fulcrum position, which I think tickles what ego Palmar has in just the right spot.
The problem is Palmer being mafia makes LS the real DT or green wich makes 0 sense to me given his posting.
What specific posts from LS make you significantly convinced?
On February 10 2017 08:18 ritoky wrote: from my perspective the cop check should always be on vivax or malongo.
palmar and ls have made themselves binary. rels, palmar, and damdred all have a good read on me and 1 of them is guaranteed not mafia. i have a soul read on damdred that is probably at least still partially functional. i am confident i can read rels quite well
On February 10 2017 08:18 ritoky wrote: from my perspective the cop check should always be on vivax or malongo.
palmar and ls have made themselves binary. rels, palmar, and damdred all have a good read on me and 1 of them is guaranteed not mafia. i have a soul read on damdred that is probably at least still partially functional. i am confident i can read rels quite well
so that leaves vivax and malongo.
Can you explain what you meant here?
that i am generally not well read, but this game has some of the people with more reliable reads on me in it. thus it probably diminishes the value of a cop check on me.
On February 10 2017 15:17 Malongo wrote: I mean the whole idea about first day claiming from palmar is getting a medic on him and making mafia gamble.
On the contrary, if he is mafia he is effectively reducing the game to a 1v1 between him and the cop assuming no saves; and essentially laying down a gauntlet saying "I will outplay you, force town to make the wrong call and lose instantly". The play he made cuts both ways. It places himself in a fulcrum position, which I think tickles what ego Palmar has in just the right spot.
The problem is Palmer being mafia makes LS the real DT or green wich makes 0 sense to me given his posting.
What specific posts from LS make you significantly convinced?
On February 10 2017 07:23 LightningStrike wrote: With that being said idk if it makes palmar scum or trying to bait a shot on him instead the real cop (me).
On February 10 2017 07:25 Rels wrote: yeah a cc war already if I had to decide with 0 info Palmar would be the one I lynch. More his type to do this kind of play than LS
On February 10 2017 15:17 Malongo wrote: I mean the whole idea about first day claiming from palmar is getting a medic on him and making mafia gamble.
On the contrary, if he is mafia he is effectively reducing the game to a 1v1 between him and the cop assuming no saves; and essentially laying down a gauntlet saying "I will outplay you, force town to make the wrong call and lose instantly". The play he made cuts both ways. It places himself in a fulcrum position, which I think tickles what ego Palmar has in just the right spot.
The problem is Palmer being mafia makes LS the real DT or green wich makes 0 sense to me given his posting.
What specific posts from LS make you significantly convinced?
On February 10 2017 07:23 LightningStrike wrote: With that being said idk if it makes palmar scum or trying to bait a shot on him instead the real cop (me).
On February 10 2017 07:25 Rels wrote: yeah a cc war already if I had to decide with 0 info Palmar would be the one I lynch. More his type to do this kind of play than LS
Well it night 0 I going to check him.
Regarding the second post, what's the reason behind it making him mafia? Wrong/dumb = mafia?
On February 10 2017 08:18 ritoky wrote: from my perspective the cop check should always be on vivax or malongo.
palmar and ls have made themselves binary. rels, palmar, and damdred all have a good read on me and 1 of them is guaranteed not mafia. i have a soul read on damdred that is probably at least still partially functional. i am confident i can read rels quite well
so that leaves vivax and malongo.
Can you explain what you meant here?
that i am generally not well read, but this game has some of the people with more reliable reads on me in it. thus it probably diminishes the value of a cop check on me.
But only Damdred posted a read on you so far so isn't it a bit premature to exclude yourself from a check without asking the other two for a read?
On February 10 2017 08:18 ritoky wrote: from my perspective the cop check should always be on vivax or malongo.
palmar and ls have made themselves binary. rels, palmar, and damdred all have a good read on me and 1 of them is guaranteed not mafia. i have a soul read on damdred that is probably at least still partially functional. i am confident i can read rels quite well
so that leaves vivax and malongo.
Can you explain what you meant here?
that i am generally not well read, but this game has some of the people with more reliable reads on me in it. thus it probably diminishes the value of a cop check on me.
But only Damdred posted a read on you so far so isn't it a bit premature to exclude yourself from a check without asking the other two for a read?
not talking about their specific read this game, speaking about historical accuracy.
On February 10 2017 15:17 Malongo wrote: Well that escalated quickly.
I say Palmar´s plan first day is good enough, we can´t risk 50/50 on a DT and we don´t really have much of a choice outside Palmar/LS.
I think LS is mafia cc poorly, his posting does´t really make sense if he was a green trying to get a hit. I mean the whole idea about first day claiming from palmar is getting a medic on him and making mafia gamble.
Rels looks green, already pointed out by ritoky.
If i was the DT id be checking Damred.
Just to let you know, I am the medic and Palmar is getting protected tonight. I am claiming because its unlikely mafia will gamble a hit on me now that
If I was scum why would I risk counter claiming Palmar at all considering it is terrible for scum to go for the 1 for 1 trade which favors town?
On February 10 2017 15:17 Malongo wrote: Well that escalated quickly.
I say Palmar´s plan first day is good enough, we can´t risk 50/50 on a DT and we don´t really have much of a choice outside Palmar/LS.
I think LS is mafia cc poorly, his posting does´t really make sense if he was a green trying to get a hit. I mean the whole idea about first day claiming from palmar is getting a medic on him and making mafia gamble.
Rels looks green, already pointed out by ritoky.
If i was the DT id be checking Damred.
Just to let you know, I am the medic and Palmar is getting protected tonight. I am claiming because its unlikely mafia will gamble a hit on me now that
If I was scum why would I risk counter claiming Palmar at all considering it is terrible for scum to go for the 1 for 1 trade which favors town?
Palmar tutored mafia why they have to CC, that's the why. If mafia don't CC you have the doc on the cop instantly, 2 mafia claiming VT, and 3 actual VTs
On February 10 2017 15:17 Malongo wrote: Well that escalated quickly.
I say Palmar´s plan first day is good enough, we can´t risk 50/50 on a DT and we don´t really have much of a choice outside Palmar/LS.
I think LS is mafia cc poorly, his posting does´t really make sense if he was a green trying to get a hit. I mean the whole idea about first day claiming from palmar is getting a medic on him and making mafia gamble.
Rels looks green, already pointed out by ritoky.
If i was the DT id be checking Damred.
Just to let you know, I am the medic and Palmar is getting protected tonight. I am claiming because its unlikely mafia will gamble a hit on me now that
If I was scum why would I risk counter claiming Palmar at all considering it is terrible for scum to go for the 1 for 1 trade which favors town?
Palmar tutored mafia why they have to CC, that's the why. If mafia don't CC you have the doc on the cop instantly, 2 mafia claiming VT, and 3 actual VTs
On February 10 2017 08:46 Damdred wrote: Let me say I believe ls here, just because I don't think he has the balls (no offense to ls) to go for the cc in Palmar like that.
This is the worst train of thought.
If mafia doesn't CC me they lose, instantly. It's nothing to do with balls, you just counterclaim, because it's what you have to do.
On February 10 2017 08:54 Damdred wrote: But ls (I'm sorry about last game), why the hesitation about saying palmar 100% scum and hedging like you were?
I have an opinion based on experience but I want to see what ls says.
Because sometimes there is pants on head town like sicklucker who would pull what palmar did as town and so I engaged with otheres and concluded that he's confirmed scum unless he's sicklucker.
I always play 100% logically except when I don't and you know that
aka, "checking if palmar is pants on head retarded" is, by definition, a pointless effort
On February 10 2017 08:59 LightningStrike wrote: I am starting to think Damdred is town here so at least that is a good start for me.
Rip means scrum will shoot me because of this.
As for your other post ls I kinda believe you and seems more like your town mindset.
As for my thing well it's just a story about how we played something like this on voice and . Palmar did the same thing to me as it looks like he is doing here.
Do yeah plus what hi said earlier.
I sort of remember him doing it on voice but it been a long time plus I am a bit tired still. Can you explain the bolded a little bit better because I can't decipher what you trying to say there :\
Rit basically answered, earlier I said I think this is out of your play depth currently. (Basically)
@rit you did say that in another game. But do you really think that ls is laying here? Is it just a feeling of something from his posts.
for palmar it's in his wheelhouse as a considered play as both cop or mafia, for LS i think it's in his wheelhouse to snap make a yolo reactive play.
It's not just in my wheelhouse. If I had rolled mafia I would have done exactly the same (well I would probably have had my partner make the cc because I'm terrified of the "lynch palmar" bias but alas). But the outcome would be the same. If I'm on the mafia team, mafia does exactly what LS did.
Like it's 100% correct play as cop to claim, so I did it.
It's also 100% correct play as mafia to counterclaim, so I would have.
On February 10 2017 16:01 Vivax wrote: For now we leave the cop claims be and focus on finding the other scum. No I have no idea who it could be yet, nothing jumps at me particularly.
Palmar should both cop claims check the same guy or not?
Neither should claim who they're checking because mafia will prefer shooting the person checked if he is town. I kinda don't wanna explain more until after daybreak (you can remind me to explain on d1), but please just trust me that it's optimal to not announce my check.
On February 10 2017 08:18 ritoky wrote: from my perspective the cop check should always be on vivax or malongo.
palmar and ls have made themselves binary. rels, palmar, and damdred all have a good read on me and 1 of them is guaranteed not mafia. i have a soul read on damdred that is probably at least still partially functional. i am confident i can read rels quite well
so that leaves vivax and malongo.
Can you explain what you meant here?
How did you not understand that? Like what is the confusion that caused you to ask that question?
Reason I ask is that to me that looks 100% straightforward, feels like a pointless question.
On February 10 2017 15:17 Malongo wrote: Well that escalated quickly.
I say Palmar´s plan first day is good enough, we can´t risk 50/50 on a DT and we don´t really have much of a choice outside Palmar/LS.
I think LS is mafia cc poorly, his posting does´t really make sense if he was a green trying to get a hit. I mean the whole idea about first day claiming from palmar is getting a medic on him and making mafia gamble.
Rels looks green, already pointed out by ritoky.
If i was the DT id be checking Damred.
Just to let you know, I am the medic and Palmar is getting protected tonight. I am claiming because its unlikely mafia will gamble a hit on me now that
If I was scum why would I risk counter claiming Palmar at all considering it is terrible for scum to go for the 1 for 1 trade which favors town?
Palmar tutored mafia why they have to CC, that's the why. If mafia don't CC you have the doc on the cop instantly, 2 mafia claiming VT, and 3 actual VTs
I didn't read that post before I CC'd O_o
look at me! I'm adorable and cute and wrong! heh, such lightningstrike, classic! woopsiedaisy!
On February 10 2017 08:18 ritoky wrote: from my perspective the cop check should always be on vivax or malongo.
palmar and ls have made themselves binary. rels, palmar, and damdred all have a good read on me and 1 of them is guaranteed not mafia. i have a soul read on damdred that is probably at least still partially functional. i am confident i can read rels quite well
so that leaves vivax and malongo.
This does feel like a fairly random post, although I could see mafia being too self-aware to literally suggest that they're not checked. The worst thing that can happen to mafia is that I check the non-cc partner tonight.
Like it's not a good post by any stretch of the imagination, but does mafia have the balls to straight up say "yo, don't check me palmar".
Nice, new page good time to post optimal play guides:
@Doc: Do not claim your role until lylo (don't claim in mylo). I'm going to assume Malongo is a troll, not a retard. If he is genuinely doc and mafia believes him, he basically reduced our chance of winning from super likely to very unlikely.
Also @Doc, tread carefully with wifom. TL players are retarded and like to go for homeruns. I know it's going to be tempting to not protect me (or LS, if you're bad at life) tonight, but you really, really should protect me. It's optimal play for mafia to shoot into the 4 people that might be doc (aka, not me or the 2 scummers), because they should be assuming that I'm protected, which is the reason I claimed in the first place.
Yes, if you play optimally, your protection is "wasted" because mafia will shoot into town, BUT, I've seen mafia go for broke often in this setup (basically gamble the doc will try a big play, and just straight up shoot the cop). I am going to super mad if I die tonight.
Oh and one more thing, because it's optimal play for Doc to claim in lylo, let's say malongo tries to claim in lylo "I was actually doc, look I claimed on n0", then that claim will hold no additional value over someone who plays correctly until d2. Like if this is some ridiculous stunt by a mafia malongo, don't let it sway you. Fine if he is still unclaimed on d2 of course he is the doc, but mafia will usually, if not always, cc doc on day 2 if the doc is alive.
Essentially, treat his claim as if it never happened, from now and until the end of the game.
On February 10 2017 16:01 Vivax wrote: For now we leave the cop claims be and focus on finding the other scum. No I have no idea who it could be yet, nothing jumps at me particularly.
Palmar should both cop claims check the same guy or not?
Neither should claim who they're checking because mafia will prefer shooting the person checked if he is town. I kinda don't wanna explain more until after daybreak (you can remind me to explain on d1), but please just trust me that it's optimal to not announce my check.
But Malongo claimed doc apparently thinking that he can self heal, so who will mafia shoot? The player you both check or Malongo? Or is Malongo mafia? If he's VT the game is a mess.
On February 10 2017 08:18 ritoky wrote: from my perspective the cop check should always be on vivax or malongo.
palmar and ls have made themselves binary. rels, palmar, and damdred all have a good read on me and 1 of them is guaranteed not mafia. i have a soul read on damdred that iite well s probably at least still partially functional. i am confident i can read rels qu so that leaves vivax and malongo.
Can you explain what you meant here?
How did you not understand that? Like what is the confusion that caused you to ask that question?
Reason I ask is that to me that looks 100% straightforward, feels like a pointless question.
Well he exempted himself from getting checked cause he argues others have a good read on him, but only one of them posted a read, and it lacks "what if one of them is mafia" perspective. He's like bitch please, all these townies can read me, why would I have to be checked, on the other hand he says that without even asking what their read of him is when it could make him figure out who of them is mafia.
On February 11 2017 00:59 Palmar wrote: Nice, new page good time to post optimal play guides:
@Doc: Do not claim your role until lylo (don't claim in mylo). I'm going to assume Malongo is a troll, not a retard. If he is genuinely doc and mafia believes him, he basically reduced our chance of winning from super likely to very unlikely.
Also @Doc, tread carefully with wifom. TL players are retarded and like to go for homeruns. I know it's going to be tempting to not protect me (or LS, if you're bad at life) tonight, but you really, really should protect me. It's optimal play for mafia to shoot into the 4 people that might be doc (aka, not me or the 2 scummers), because they should be assuming that I'm protected, which is the reason I claimed in the first place.
Yes, if you play optimally, your protection is "wasted" because mafia will shoot into town, BUT, I've seen mafia go for broke often in this setup (basically gamble the doc will try a big play, and just straight up shoot the cop). I am going to super mad if I die tonight.
I think there's an argument to be made that once the cop is CC'd protecting either is not the optimal play because mafia shooting either results in a 1 for 1 trade of cop for mafia which in this setup seems fine for town. It also keeps the doctor save "live" in the event that mafia doesn't want to shoot into the cop and trade, which optimally they won't do because it is a net loss.
But I suppose arguing optimal play semantics is not really for this thread.
On February 10 2017 20:35 LightningStrike wrote: Anyways I know who I checking but wont reveal who it is until 1 minute before EoN.
Do you think its better to have both cop claims check same target or not?
I think it is cause with a fake result the checked target instantly knows who's the fake cop
Who would you have checked if you were to direct the cops to check the same person?
Rels.
underwhelming/inactivity or a reason?
His three posts only offer a read on the cop claims. The first reason is wifom (Palmar would go for this kind of play). I know Palmar would do it as both alignments. Overall I think he exudates too much early confidence on who is what. If I compare it to myself, I'm happy just leaving the "cops" be as they are for now and see what they cook up further.
The residents of Liquistad were calm. Despite all that had happened in Liquiville, surely the mafia would not have the nerve to attack the upstanding town of Liquistad. Little did they know that shit was already about to go down. The gangsters had been there all along biding their time, and now was the time to strike.
Boldly did they set out that night to murder every last citizen of Liquistad.
Zzzzz zzzzzz zzzzz
What?
Zzzz zzz zzz, a mosquito was headed straight for the gangsters!
Zzzz zzz zzz it buzzed, and bit the gangsters over and over. Panicked, the gangsters started wacking around themselves, but the Anopheles mosquito would not give up! Desperate, the gansters started shooting in an attempt to scare it off. A stray bullet splattered it all over the sidewalk.
Plasmodium Vivax promptly died as its mosquito host was gone. However, the gangsters' plot was thwarted and they fled back into the shadows.
Vivax, vanilla townie has died.
It is now Day 1. The day will end instantly when a majority is reached. You may vote for a player by typing ##vote: Qatol in this thread. You may also vote for no lynch (by typing ##vote: no lynch). If no consensus is reached in , the day will end without a lynch.
On February 11 2017 07:18 LightningStrike wrote: ##vote: Palmar Mafia because I the real cop and he should be lynched.
So convince. Considering you posted a YYH vid about how you were gonna wreck Palmar, you really have done nothing since then of any form of usefulness.
On February 11 2017 07:51 ritoky wrote: Also LS, why is rels a higher priority check for you than Damdred, when they essentially made the same read on you?
I like this question. Like ls usually you like to have me confirmed at any point as you Wifom your way into he'll on me half the time.But it doesn't matter I'll be confirmed town soon anyway.
@LS and Rit what do you think of the doctor claim and the way he went about it?
I looked through vivax filter, I don't see much reason for the kill besides wifom eh.
Rels was only scum read but ls has him green checked.
@Palmar who did you check?
Also kinda in a tinfoil world, if ls is scum does that make rels town confirmed or scum ls is protecting. I hate saying it's not in someones wheelhouse. But it's an interesting thought I'm a bit paranoid of that.
On February 11 2017 07:51 ritoky wrote: Also LS, why is rels a higher priority check for you than Damdred, when they essentially made the same read on you?
I like this question. Like ls usually you like to have me confirmed at any point as you Wifom your way into he'll on me half the time.But it doesn't matter I'll be confirmed town soon anyway.
@LS and Rit what do you think of the doctor claim and the way he went about it?
That question for everyone who wants to answer.
i don't think he's the doctor. if i had to hazard a guess i think he is vt being a bonehead trying to do some kind of convoluted play that does more harm than good.
if he comes in an says "yo i am doctor, never rescinding, never back down" in his next posts, then i think he is mafia on the grounds he claims doctor and save target instantly and then turns around and calls LS scum cuz dumb/bad. at that point i just have to assume his level of hypocrisy and poor play makes him mafia.
for LS the game should be simple. he isn't mafia, palmar is, rels isn't, i am never mafia; so he literally has 2 suspects: malo and damd.....so what about damdred makes him more town than a guy who claimed doc? because the way LS talks to/about damdred reads to me like he isn't even considering him an option.
On February 11 2017 07:31 LightningStrike wrote: Does it bother anyone that the claimed medic is alive as well?
So you believe his claim. Why?
idk I surprised he not been killed because in all rights mafia should of shot him.
On February 11 2017 07:51 ritoky wrote: Also LS, why is rels a higher priority check for you than Damdred, when they essentially made the same read on you?
Damdred posted more stuff at the time and I was already reading him town.
On February 11 2017 07:51 ritoky wrote: Also LS, why is rels a higher priority check for you than Damdred, when they essentially made the same read on you?
I like this question. Like ls usually you like to have me confirmed at any point as you Wifom your way into he'll on me half the time.But it doesn't matter I'll be confirmed town soon anyway.
@LS and Rit what do you think of the doctor claim and the way he went about it?
On February 11 2017 08:19 ritoky wrote: for LS the game should be simple. he isn't mafia, palmar is, rels isn't, i am never mafia; so he literally has 2 suspects: malo and damd.....so what about damdred makes him more town than a guy who claimed doc? because the way LS talks to/about damdred reads to me like he isn't even considering him an option.
Well there is a chance you are scum though. Maybe I should check Damdred if we end up not lynching anyone today.
On February 11 2017 08:19 ritoky wrote: for LS the game should be simple. he isn't mafia, palmar is, rels isn't, i am never mafia; so he literally has 2 suspects: malo and damd.....so what about damdred makes him more town than a guy who claimed doc? because the way LS talks to/about damdred reads to me like he isn't even considering him an option.
Well there is a chance you are scum though. Maybe I should check Damdred if we end up not lynching anyone today.
Lul. 0.0% chance I am mafia this game. I actually genuinely believe that outside of the first Cell Mafia game, this is the most town I have ever been on TL.
On February 11 2017 08:19 ritoky wrote: for LS the game should be simple. he isn't mafia, palmar is, rels isn't, i am never mafia; so he literally has 2 suspects: malo and damd.....so what about damdred makes him more town than a guy who claimed doc? because the way LS talks to/about damdred reads to me like he isn't even considering him an option.
Well there is a chance you are scum though. Maybe I should check Damdred if we end up not lynching anyone today.
Lul. 0.0% chance I am mafia this game. I actually genuinely believe that outside of the first Cell Mafia game, this is the most town I have ever been on TL.
No, there was thebpersonality game shenanigans you see really town and a couple others. But yeahtown here.
Doc should never claim like that though when he can die. Claim feels off to me and feels like he is trying to draw the real doc out or trying to slide by until d2 when the real doc should claaim.
I don't thinknim going to get any real opinion from you about him.
I think his claim was bad, I think him during with Palmar and insta calling his save was scum sided.
Which btw ls of you are the real cop and he's the real doc (hes not I think). Palmar is saccing himself anyway why not shoot you and have 0 checks out?
On February 11 2017 08:41 Damdred wrote: Doc should never claim like that though when he can die. Claim feels off to me and feels like he is trying to draw the real doc out or trying to slide by until d2 when the real doc should claaim.
I don't thinknim going to get any real opinion from you about him.
I think his claim was bad, I think him during with Palmar and insta calling his save was scum sided.
Which btw ls of you are the real cop and he's the real doc (hes not I think). Palmar is saccing himself anyway why not shoot you and have 0 checks out?
Because people were still questioning my claim that why I am alive. If the claimed doc is scumafia then it's because his claim was very bad.
On February 11 2017 09:48 ritoky wrote: k, so it is damdred or malongo. malongo, you claiming doctor and never rescinding?
Theres no reason to confirm/deny at this point.
Still reading the thread, I really hate that somehow both DTs checked rels.
Why not? Palmar and LS are binary, rels is confirmed green, I am never mafia. If you have a way to confirm yourself as town through claim then damdred becomes confirmed mafia who we can immediately lynch.
On February 11 2017 09:48 ritoky wrote: k, so it is damdred or malongo. malongo, you claiming doctor and never rescinding?
Theres no reason to confirm/deny at this point.
Still reading the thread, I really hate that somehow both DTs checked rels.
Why not? Palmar and LS are binary, rels is confirmed green, I am never mafia. If you have a way to confirm yourself as town through claim then damdred becomes confirmed mafia who we can immediately lynch.
I am green. Claiming doctor first day is as retarded as it sounds.
On February 11 2017 09:48 ritoky wrote: k, so it is damdred or malongo. malongo, you claiming doctor and never rescinding?
Theres no reason to confirm/deny at this point.
Still reading the thread, I really hate that somehow both DTs checked rels.
Why not? Palmar and LS are binary, rels is confirmed green, I am never mafia. If you have a way to confirm yourself as town through claim then damdred becomes confirmed mafia who we can immediately lynch.
I don`t get it: you are never mafia? I am inclined to believe you are town but that doesn`t make you confirmed town.
I don't think there's a single game like mafia for me. Nothing gets under my skin to the extent that this game does.
On vacation and putting more effort in....sigh.
We have a green check with like 0 posts.....100% trustworthy source of information delivering.
We have palmar doing the ABSOLUTE BARE FUCKING MINIMUM even though he is supposedly the cop. Oh wait let me guess your canned bullshit rebuttal. Palmar "Ahem, well it doesn't matter talking today since it is optimal to sleep. Then the following day I will convince you why I am cop and LS is mafia; we will lynch LS and then I will die. Discussion is irrelevant for me because I will not be alive to have to lynch the final mafia, plus my next set of checks will narrow it down to where the game is simple." WOW COOL SHIT DUDE! Currently your ass is getting lynched because you should be doing way more to project the fact that you're the cop and he isn't and you know it. Not even responding to why you checked rels. Give me a fucking break, you know better and the fact that you're not acting on it is bad play if town or just plain mafia.
Then we got LS over here saying he is gonna go ham on palmar and then doing nothing, but at least he seems to try....oh wait until it comes to making arguments on who is mafia and why.
Then I got damdred over here who is basically my sanity thus far and probably has me so deep in his pocket if he is mafia that I am fucked beyond belief; but even he doesn't seem to be trying to do much more than the bare minimum.
Then there's malongo who I have no fucking clue who he is but he derped out and claimed medic n0 with 0 upside then unclaimed it into VT and seems to have literally made up his mind in 5 seconds and fucked off until vote time.
No offense, but you're all kinda mafia siding to a certain extent this game. Town's only avenue to victory in this game is discourse; silence is mafia siding. SO FUCKING TALK ABOUT SOME SHIT.
The moral of the story is that American airports right now are a giant shitshow and you should not fly if you do not have to until further notice. Especially if you or anyone you are flying with is a person of color.
Sorry for the rant if you were offended, bad travel plus 21 hours of laziness hurts my fucking soul.
complaining about me not posting on weekends as if that's a valid topic for discussion.
I'll catch up tomorrow, we sleep anyway.
And no, it's not optimal for me to not worry about the last mafia because it only takes one person to fuck it up. I'm going to make goddamn sure that we get this game right.
Yeah I was just busy yesterday or I would of posted more.
Like to me the game is really simple, I think LS is just town. I think as scum he would of caved to me badgering him with all of my questions about the doc claim but he just stubbornly kept his no opinion that he did before. I really think as scum he would of just caved at that point and given me what I wanted.
Rels is confirmed town and green.
So basically the game boils down to Rit vs Mal for me and i'm pretty sure my meta read is still accurate on Rit.
Mal has been pretty anti-town and seemingly mafia oriented this game. His doc claim was never going to draw a shot especially if Palmar was scum. It felt more like him trying to draw a CC early in the game and just go with that. He keeps soft scum reading me without any real explanation and just name dropping me he started that n0 with no real explanation. His latest posts not giving any information are still horrid. And then his rescinded claim was just as bad only after direct pressure and people saying they didnt' believe him did he take it back.
Hes the 2nd scum. And in either case if LS/Palmar can get a second check tonight the game is over anyway.
On February 12 2017 22:32 Damdred wrote: Yeah I was just busy yesterday or I would of posted more.
Like to me the game is really simple, I think LS is just town. I think as scum he would of caved to me badgering him with all of my questions about the doc claim but he just stubbornly kept his no opinion that he did before. I really think as scum he would of just caved at that point and given me what I wanted.
Rels is confirmed town and green.
So basically the game boils down to Rit vs Mal for me and i'm pretty sure my meta read is still accurate on Rit.
Mal has been pretty anti-town and seemingly mafia oriented this game. His doc claim was never going to draw a shot especially if Palmar was scum. It felt more like him trying to draw a CC early in the game and just go with that. He keeps soft scum reading me without any real explanation and just name dropping me he started that n0 with no real explanation. His latest posts not giving any information are still horrid. And then his rescinded claim was just as bad only after direct pressure and people saying they didnt' believe him did he take it back.
Hes the 2nd scum. And in either case if LS/Palmar can get a second check tonight the game is over anyway.
wow basically this is my exact mind having just read all the thread. Palmar / Malongo seems super likely
but I don't agree with no lynching. Palmar is super hard to lynch at LYLO he's a slippery son of a bitch when he has time to play. LS just had too townie posts
If we let them both get a check tonight and make Palmar go first we get double the information really, he won't have the opportunity to copy ls really.
And more than likely the game won't be full of idiots by the time Palmar v ls happens.
On February 13 2017 01:37 Damdred wrote: I don't know rels.
If we let them both get a check tonight and make Palmar go first we get double the information really, he won't have the opportunity to copy ls really.
And more than likely the game won't be full of idiots by the time Palmar v ls happens.
That's an interesting swing from malongo. Puts Palmar one from lynch then moved to no lynch.
Idk the whole sequence has me uneasy, like hints that he knows Palmar is red with his little hint hint thing but then instantly backs off because he could be the real dt.
I'm fact the read progression doesn't make any sense, he starts at Palmar has to be the cop over ls because of his bad posts. Gates both checked rels and then bites Palmar and almost iinstantly unvotes.
I can only see mafia motivation in that.
I know you want to lynch Palmar today rels but I think the correct play is to lynch malongo today. Then finish the game with Palmar v ls.
##vote malongo
And as for your early question rels I think it's 99%. And if mal is scum I think their is no doubt it's palmar. So join me on this one.
lol if you think Palamr is 99% mafia we lynch Palmar. I'm way less confident on the other dude. Even more though knowing than if we're right tomorrow we have doc claim + another check.
If that's what we are relying on though we should no lunch then.
The night kill will be more interesting with Palm/lls alive since they can't kill the cop without saccing and the doc should probably protect you and then we have a kill between ritoky and me. Then the real cop checks mal me or rit.
So more than likely the game is over with a no lynch here to.
Idk just seems simple like that. Doc claims, good report checks. Game is over. And really what if I'm wrong on ls even if this is the 1% he's emulating really well and one ml and a lose I think.
On February 13 2017 04:17 Damdred wrote: That's an interesting swing from malongo. Puts Palmar one from lynch then moved to no lynch.
Idk the whole sequence has me uneasy, like hints that he knows Palmar is red with his little hint hint thing but then instantly backs off because he could be the real dt.
I'm fact the read progression doesn't make any sense, he starts at Palmar has to be the cop over ls because of his bad posts. Gates both checked rels and then bites Palmar and almost iinstantly unvotes.
I can only see mafia motivation in that.
I know you want to lynch Palmar today rels but I think the correct play is to lynch malongo today. Then finish the game with Palmar v ls.
##vote malongo
And as for your early question rels I think it's 99%. And if mal is scum I think their is no doubt it's palmar. So join me on this one.
It makes a lot of sense if you put me on green, I was voting with rels but I realized that 2 greens voting a player meant the mafia had the chance to lynch Palmar if he was town. In the same topic if Palmar was actually red there was 0 chance of getting another vote (LS, rels and me) because rittoky and you were never voting Palmar if you were town sided.
From my point of view 1 of LS vs Palmar is mafia 1 of Damred vs ritoky is the other.
Funny that you agree that the best play is no lynch today yet you are asking people to vote me.
lynch right no save: 6(4:2) -> 5(4:1) -> 4(3:1) -> 3(2:1) -> 2(1:1) gg
lynch right save: 6(4:2) -> 5(4:1) -> 5(4:1) -> etc
the only way to gain a ML is to lynch correctly today and get a save, otherwise lynching today essentially decides the game barring the save and is no different than lynching tomorrow. other than that i will be dead, we will have more cop checks, might have more discussion, and slightly more opp for saves. it's mostly better to just no lynch.
On February 13 2017 06:43 Damdred wrote: Do you agree with me that I is probably just Palmar as scum in that situation?
i don't know if i am exactly clear on the "situation". but to explain my pov, which clearly can't be yours cuz you'll never view yourself as possible mafia, the cops should both check you.
essentially i don't think ls + malongo is a possible team for a great many reasons, some of which are malongo's initial reaction to ls, malongo's decisive tone, and the fact that if he is mafia i felt he was coached to make that medic claim and i don't think ls does that coaching in the QT.
so that leaves LS's only partner as you, which if i recall correctly LS generally is more open to big plays when mafia with you since you tend to encourage him and stuff from what i remember of past games. so that team makes the most sense in my brain if LS is mafia.
as for palmar, i think he is the kind of person who would coach malongo to claim medic and shit in the thread to try to bait cc's. i also think since palmar doesn't know him he is the kind of mafia partner who could inspire palmar to not try as hard.
the only real reason i think palmar could be with you is a paranoia of mafia creating a false binary or dichotomy. where they try to render the game to black or white but hedge and place one on each side. the only 2 people i feel like made any effort to hedge both sides in that way are you and palmar.
i think a double check on you, since in my mind you're capable of being on both sides will essentially render the game into 2 teams of 2 since i sincerely doubt whichever of them is fake cop wants to have a run at me this game if i am still alive.
in terms of how i feel on the palmar/ls situation, i feel underwhelmed. palmar was clearly more prepared and knew what he was doing with his claim, but i feel he should be doing way more to project he is the cop especially when he knows who his sworn enemy is. with ls i just feel he lacks excitement. to me ls is someone who is like a kid in a candy shop when he finds something solid to hold onto, he gets super excited and has to show everything this cool thing he found. well he found mafia....like 100% confirmed mafia to him, so where is the exuberance. he posted a yyh video and then just faded away.
if i had to hazard a guess atm i would say palmar/malongo. palmar probably because my expectations are higher so my disappointment is respectively higher. my 1 real hesitation with malongo is that he actually still thinks i could somehow possible be mafia at this point which is like.....lol....but also kinda townish to me in a weird way.
On February 13 2017 04:29 Malongo wrote: From my point of view 1 of LS vs Palmar is mafia 1 of Damred vs ritoky is the other.
Rather than options, who do you believe is mafia?
I´m inclined to believe you are town and Damdred mafia based on posting. I don´t have a real case against him anyways other than playing an uncomitted low profile game. You have been way more proactive but that could be a good mafia play too. I´d say 60% 40% towards Damdred mafia.
The DT war is either a) Palmar doing a good town play and LS down a poor job at countering or B) Palmar doing an even better mafia play and LS countering poorly. I was inclined to side with Palmar from the start for the simple reason that most of the time I´d choose to lose a game against a player that made a good play rather than killing that same player and losing because of my own paranoid ways. My only real concern in DT wars was the DT check went on the same player and Palmar came back with a later check wich is really fishy for me. I expected a check on different players for more info. Last but not least is some sort of meta I can read were LS is unlikely to make this play as mafia and Palmar is likely to make his, but I´m unsure at this point. I´d say its a coinflip for me a the moment.
On February 10 2017 07:25 Rels wrote: yeah a cc war already if I had to decide with 0 info Palmar would be the one I lynch. More his type to do this kind of play than LS
n0 doesn't have a lot of information, so I decided to check a guy I both know is a good player and also gave himself an out to support LS, who is mafia (I know he's not confirmed scum to you all, but he is to me).
I actually was gonna check someone else but changed my mind because I felt like I was being paranoid. Not gonna reveal who until day 2. But you will understand my reasoning once I tell you.
With regards to the other mafia, I'm currently thinking it's Damdred. Like I have a reason to think everyone else might be town.
Rels is confirmed town (checked by me). LS is confirmed mafia
Malongo could be smart mafia, but he basically has erred on my side throughout the game. It's a really weird play to do if he's mafia. I'll explain why:
If Malongo is mafia, and keeps siding with me, that means I have 2 people on my side in a 3v2 situation tomorrow. LS is obviously going to be on another side, so that means ritoky/rels/damdred (2/3 will be alive, assuming mafia doesn't shoot themselves and doesn't risk shooting me because we have a doctor alive).
So he's then either betting on 2 townies being wrong (siding with LS and lynching me) and winning the game outright, or he's betting on us lynching damdred, and then himself winning 2v1 lylo with 2/4 of me, ritoky, rels and damdred alive with him. And if they don't hit the doctor tonight, town auto wins.
So it makes no sense for mafia to side with town. This means that Malongo is likely to be town, because no mafia is going to take a 66% chance to just.... auto lose.
This leaves ritoky and damdred. I think it's quite clear atm that I would prefer lynching damdred of the two. ritoky's effort and activity level is way higher, and for now that's good enough for me.
I am 100% counting on doctor protection tonight. like please don't fuck this up mr. doctor. If I die, we can lose this game.
Like if it isn't clear, I think the team is most likely:
LS + Damdred.
The far out options are LS + Malongo or LS + ritoky.
For LS + Malongo, I have to assume they can't do math and for LS + ritoky, the person who seems to be most interested in the game is mafia, which is always bad.
It's like a fairly straightforward read right now, but I'm gonna spend time reading ritoky and malongo again just to make sure. Also, unless we have a dumb shit for a doctor I'm going to have a red/green on one of rit/malongo/damdred tomorrow which will make things even easier.
Liquistad wasn't even kept awake by the crickets, everybody slept like a baby on and woke up safely to face the challenges of another day!
It is now Day 2. The day will end instantly when a majority is reached. You may vote for a player by typing ##vote: Qatol in this thread. With 6 alive it takes 4 to lynch. You may also vote for no lynch (by typing ##vote: no lynch). If no consensus is reached in , the day will end without a lynch.
On February 14 2017 06:55 LightningStrike wrote: I got a check result but I wont say it until Palmar says "his" result first :D
Where were you for 72 hours?
Busy studying for my Chemistry 2 Exam that is going to happen tomorrow plus saw that people would rather no lynch than anything and couldn't be bothered with trying to convince people while I was studying -.-
On February 14 2017 06:55 LightningStrike wrote: I got a check result but I wont say it until Palmar says "his" result first :D
Where were you for 72 hours?
Busy studying for my Chemistry 2 Exam that is going to happen tomorrow plus saw that people would rather no lynch than anything and couldn't be bothered with trying to convince people while I was studying -.-
sigh I wish I got a fucking red check on malongo because that would make the game easier for me but now I have to consider a world where Damdred or ritoky would be scum with Palmar. Although ritoky does look townier than Damdred the fact that Palmar gave Damdred a red check is giving me bad feels.
So in LS's world (unless he randomly green checks his partner) it is palmar/damdred. In Palmar's world it is LS/damdred. Which means to both cops damdred is mafia.
The only question is if LS would green check his partner.
The reason I checked Malongo was because he was getting scumread by many people and I started to question if he was scum or not so I went for the check on him instead of Damdred.
Actually damdred if you're doc you need claim asap. Right now. The other scum will be forced to counterclaim. No waiting for lylo I don't care. If you die Palmar ritoky is confirmed anyway
Why the hell would we sleep again? I am just going to die, flip doctor, and he will red check damd. We will have dual reds on damd, and you'll be at the same place minus a conf blue.
On February 14 2017 07:13 ritoky wrote: Why the hell would we sleep again? I am just going to die, flip doctor, and he will red check damd. We will have dual reds on damd, and you'll be at the same place minus a conf blue.
On February 14 2017 07:13 ritoky wrote: Why the hell would we sleep again? I am just going to die, flip doctor, and he will red check damd. We will have dual reds on damd, and you'll be at the same place minus a conf blue.
I don't want to risk ending the game in favor of scum and rather get my check on Damdred or you.
Wait LS can't green his partner. Because is LS is mafia then Palmar is cop which necessitates Damdred is red. So Palmar is at LS/Damd. LS is at Palmar/damd or me but since I am confirmed blue, LS is at Palmar/damd. Damd is 100% confirmed mafia.
Btw this looks over tbh. For damdred at least. Cause there is 50% chance of the doc being malongo from ritoky pov if he's scum. It can't be me since the doc protected me, unless scum can no shoot but I m assuming they have to shoot there. So if malongo claims doc ritoky is dead. Cause malongo is always town; he's green checked by ls, and LS can only be scum with damdred
What I'm saying is that ritoky fakeclaiming doc is a pretty risky move. 50% chance of being dead right there. So if not dead there is a counter claim fight to give
On February 14 2017 07:13 ritoky wrote: Why the hell would we sleep again? I am just going to die, flip doctor, and he will red check damd. We will have dual reds on damd, and you'll be at the same place minus a conf blue.
This is correct, but I have perfect information so whatever.
On February 11 2017 00:59 Palmar wrote: Nice, new page good time to post optimal play guides:
@Doc: Do not claim your role until lylo (don't claim in mylo). I'm going to assume Malongo is a troll, not a retard. If he is genuinely doc and mafia believes him, he basically reduced our chance of winning from super likely to very unlikely.
Also @Doc, tread carefully with wifom. TL players are retarded and like to go for homeruns. I know it's going to be tempting to not protect me (or LS, if you're bad at life) tonight, but you really, really should protect me. It's optimal play for mafia to shoot into the 4 people that might be doc (aka, not me or the 2 scummers), because they should be assuming that I'm protected, which is the reason I claimed in the first place.
Yes, if you play optimally, your protection is "wasted" because mafia will shoot into town, BUT, I've seen mafia go for broke often in this setup (basically gamble the doc will try a big play, and just straight up shoot the cop). I am going to super mad if I die tonight.
I think there's an argument to be made that once the cop is CC'd protecting either is not the optimal play because mafia shooting either results in a 1 for 1 trade of cop for mafia which in this setup seems fine for town. It also keeps the doctor save "live" in the event that mafia doesn't want to shoot into the cop and trade, which optimally they won't do because it is a net loss.
But I suppose arguing optimal play semantics is not really for this thread.
ritoky thinking he softed too hard and is gonna die:
On February 11 2017 06:57 ritoky wrote: was nice playing with you guys for a little bit again. i fully expect to die in 3 mins.
On February 11 2017 07:51 ritoky wrote: Also LS, why is rels a higher priority check for you than Damdred, when they essentially made the same read on you?
I like this question. Like ls usually you like to have me confirmed at any point as you Wifom your way into he'll on me half the time.But it doesn't matter I'll be confirmed town soon anyway.
@LS and Rit what do you think of the doctor claim and the way he went about it?
That question for everyone who wants to answer.
i don't think he's the doctor. if i had to hazard a guess i think he is vt being a bonehead trying to do some kind of convoluted play that does more harm than good.
if he comes in an says "yo i am doctor, never rescinding, never back down" in his next posts, then i think he is mafia on the grounds he claims doctor and save target instantly and then turns around and calls LS scum cuz dumb/bad. at that point i just have to assume his level of hypocrisy and poor play makes him mafia.
ritoky pushing for Mal to hard claim so he can cc:
On February 11 2017 09:48 ritoky wrote: k, so it is damdred or malongo. malongo, you claiming doctor and never rescinding?
Theres no reason to confirm/deny at this point.
Still reading the thread, I really hate that somehow both DTs checked rels.
Why not? Palmar and LS are binary, rels is confirmed green, I am never mafia. If you have a way to confirm yourself as town through claim then damdred becomes confirmed mafia who we can immediately lynch.
I thought about checking damdred n0 because I can never read him. ie: I think he's mafia every game and this one was no exception. However I got mad at rels for talking about me being possibly mafia and checked him instead because him not bowing to glorious town leader palmar felt scummy at the time.
I humbly admit I forgot Rels has a case of the bads.
Palmer with the great scum play, it only takes one ml to lose and of course ls had to not check me after saying he would.
I'm hard cc ritoky, if you look through my post history you can see how I never believe mal claim. I push him inspire of his claim I even say in thread what I am doing. Protecting rels last night. It was a no brainer in that regard.
I think the game is won we Lynch palmar or ritoky then the other one tomorrow and the game is won. Any other move today ends in a loss.
On February 14 2017 18:03 Rels wrote: lol expected. I think we decide Palmar vs LS today. And by that I mean we lynch Palmar today. Game is auto won or lost after that.
On February 14 2017 18:03 Rels wrote: lol expected. I think we decide Palmar vs LS today. And by that I mean we lynch Palmar today. Game is auto won or lost after that.
You are so bad
CANT POST AN IRONIC PIC OF US TOGETHER NOW MOTHERFUCKER
LOL Damdred TMI is showing so much. But despite that he's never willing to commit on a Palmar vote. Cause he lost 100% if Palmar dies, it confirms LS who can get a second check. His move to try and lynch Malongo D1 was basically the only way they won. It failed.
On February 12 2017 22:32 Damdred wrote: Yeah I was just busy yesterday or I would of posted more.
Like to me the game is really simple, I think LS is just town. I think as scum he would of caved to me badgering him with all of my questions about the doc claim but he just stubbornly kept his no opinion that he did before. I really think as scum he would of just caved at that point and given me what I wanted.
Rels is confirmed town and green.
So basically the game boils down to Rit vs Mal for me and i'm pretty sure my meta read is still accurate on Rit.
Mal has been pretty anti-town and seemingly mafia oriented this game. His doc claim was never going to draw a shot especially if Palmar was scum. It felt more like him trying to draw a CC early in the game and just go with that. He keeps soft scum reading me without any real explanation and just name dropping me he started that n0 with no real explanation. His latest posts not giving any information are still horrid. And then his rescinded claim was just as bad only after direct pressure and people saying they didnt' believe him did he take it back.
Hes the 2nd scum. And in either case if LS/Palmar can get a second check tonight the game is over anyway.
On February 13 2017 04:17 Damdred wrote: That's an interesting swing from malongo. Puts Palmar one from lynch then moved to no lynch.
Idk the whole sequence has me uneasy, like hints that he knows Palmar is red with his little hint hint thing but then instantly backs off because he could be the real dt.
I'm fact the read progression doesn't make any sense, he starts at Palmar has to be the cop over ls because of his bad posts. Gates both checked rels and then bites Palmar and almost iinstantly unvotes.
I can only see mafia motivation in that.
I know you want to lynch Palmar today rels but I think the correct play is to lynch malongo today. Then finish the game with Palmar v ls.
##vote malongo
And as for your early question rels I think it's 99%. And if mal is scum I think their is no doubt it's palmar. So join me on this one.
The second post especially. Palmar is 99% scum in his mind, but for some reason Malongo putting Palmar 1 vote away from lynch then backing off is scummy. And Malongo actions were townie, it doesn't make sense. It was the first time that Malongo showed doubts, like "OH FUCK I ALMOST THREW THE GAME IF PALMAR IS DT".
"I don't like that Palmar guy. Everything he said seemed pre-meditated, and people who tend to think of all that junk ahead of time are hiding stuff. But he also sounds smart, and smart people make sense. So I don't know, he wrote a bunch of stuff that is probably all factually correct; but can't anyone do that if they're as smart as him anyway?"
"Oh wow, that Lightning guy seems genuinely excited that he did something and wants everyone to notice him....Oh wait now he's whining...I don't like whiners, can you vote on him now?"
ritoky: I whine a lot
"Who said I liked you? Anyways I don't know he sounds weird. Why don't you just vote both of them off the island?"
ritoky: 1 of them has to be mafia and the other one town.
"But you can just vote them both off anyways right? Cuz then you get 1 for sure."
ritoky: From a procedural pov, you kinda can't.
"Well that's dumb, you should be able to. They both sound bad, I wouldn't agonize over it; I would just pick one without thinking too hard about it and if you lose oh well, just blame the person who got voted off for not being good."
this was a funny post and I didn't read it properly the first time
On February 10 2017 16:01 Vivax wrote: For now we leave the cop claims be and focus on finding the other scum. No I have no idea who it could be yet, nothing jumps at me particularly.
Palmar should both cop claims check the same guy or not?
Neither should claim who they're checking because mafia will prefer shooting the person checked if he is town. I kinda don't wanna explain more until after daybreak (you can remind me to explain on d1), but please just trust me that it's optimal to not announce my check.
typical mafia talk "ILL EXPLAIN LATER BUT I HAVE GOOD REASONS I PROMISE". It's not that there are not good reasons. Reasons are very likely to be very good. But this line of thoughts ==> "I have a good reason but I'll disclose it later" is a scummy mindset very usually. Especially if the reason is very good.
On February 13 2017 23:44 Palmar wrote: I actually was gonna check someone else but changed my mind because I felt like I was being paranoid. Not gonna reveal who until day 2. But you will understand my reasoning once I tell you.
There's some upside to lynching between the cops this phase because if we get it correct, damdred cannot shoot me and then i could get a save that could extend the game right? 4v2 -> 4v1 -> 4v1 which means we could lynch both of us and win.
To me, that line of play is a bit of a longshot, plus I have confirmed mafia regardless of which cop is real in damdred...so...
And even for you Damdred if conf town, but you WILL still have to chose between Palmar and LS. I mean, you won't because you would be dead at that point, but town would have to chose anyway. So let's chose today
there is no "extending the game" after we lynch a cop claim. We got it right => you and Damdred protects LS who check one of you too => town lynch the check if it's red, or the other if it's green. We got it wrong => scum kills the real doc.
On February 10 2017 16:01 Vivax wrote: For now we leave the cop claims be and focus on finding the other scum. No I have no idea who it could be yet, nothing jumps at me particularly.
Palmar should both cop claims check the same guy or not?
Neither should claim who they're checking because mafia will prefer shooting the person checked if he is town. I kinda don't wanna explain more until after daybreak (you can remind me to explain on d1), but please just trust me that it's optimal to not announce my check.
typical mafia talk "ILL EXPLAIN LATER BUT I HAVE GOOD REASONS I PROMISE". It's not that there are not good reasons. Reasons are very likely to be very good. But this line of thoughts ==> "I have a good reason but I'll disclose it later" is a scummy mindset very usually. Especially if the reason is very good.
you are retarded.
I didn't want to talk about the cop options on n1 because of several reasons:
I did not want a cross-check with scum (which I ended up getting anyway) I did not want the scum to shoot my check I did not want scum to panic and go for a big play (try to hope the doc is retarded and didn't protect me) on n1 if I announced I was checking scum I was hoping LS might fuck up and check me (yes, this has happened, more than once in this setup. Mafia claims cop, then claims to check the real cop "to be sure").
On February 13 2017 23:44 Palmar wrote: I actually was gonna check someone else but changed my mind because I felt like I was being paranoid. Not gonna reveal who until day 2. But you will understand my reasoning once I tell you.
looooooool again
On February 14 2017 07:38 Palmar wrote: oh I talked earlier about checking someone.
I thought about checking damdred n0 because I can never read him. ie: I think he's mafia every game and this one was no exception. However I got mad at rels for talking about me being possibly mafia and checked him instead because him not bowing to glorious town leader palmar felt scummy at the time.
I humbly admit I forgot Rels has a case of the bads.
On February 14 2017 19:47 Rels wrote: And even for you Damdred if conf town, but you WILL still have to chose between Palmar and LS. I mean, you won't because you would be dead at that point, but town would have to chose anyway. So let's chose today
I mean...not really. Lynching damdred who is conf scum will result in my immediate death since mafia won't risk leaving a conf medic alive cuz of save potential. So technically lynching damdred exempts me from having to choose, but I understand your general point. Some of it is under the assumption that palmar is 100% mafia though, because in the world where Palmar is town the game is literally over.
On February 13 2017 23:44 Palmar wrote: I actually was gonna check someone else but changed my mind because I felt like I was being paranoid. Not gonna reveal who until day 2. But you will understand my reasoning once I tell you.
On February 14 2017 07:38 Palmar wrote: oh I talked earlier about checking someone.
I thought about checking damdred n0 because I can never read him. ie: I think he's mafia every game and this one was no exception. However I got mad at rels for talking about me being possibly mafia and checked him instead because him not bowing to glorious town leader palmar felt scummy at the time.
I humbly admit I forgot Rels has a case of the bads.
Sry nobody remembered to ask you so you had to tell it like that
On February 14 2017 19:47 Rels wrote: And even for you Damdred if conf town, but you WILL still have to chose between Palmar and LS. I mean, you won't because you would be dead at that point, but town would have to chose anyway. So let's chose today
I mean...not really. Lynching damdred who is conf scum will result in my immediate death since mafia won't risk leaving a conf medic alive cuz of save potential. So technically lynching damdred exempts me from having to choose, but I understand your general point. Some of it is under the assumption that palmar is 100% mafia though, because in the world where Palmar is town the game is literally over.
Nope, the reasonning is not made under the assumption Palmar is 100% mafia. I think Palmar is 99% mafia, but the reasonning is still correct without it.
On February 14 2017 19:47 Rels wrote: And even for you Damdred if conf town, but you WILL still have to chose between Palmar and LS. I mean, you won't because you would be dead at that point, but town would have to chose anyway. So let's chose today
I mean...not really. Lynching damdred who is conf scum will result in my immediate death since mafia won't risk leaving a conf medic alive cuz of save potential. So technically lynching damdred exempts me from having to choose, but I understand your general point. Some of it is under the assumption that palmar is 100% mafia though, because in the world where Palmar is town the game is literally over.
Nope, the reasonning is not made under the assumption Palmar is 100% mafia. I think Palmar is 99% mafia, but the reasonning is still correct without it.
Your post about LS checking between me and damd is under that assumption though. Because in the world where we lynch LS and get it right, Palmar already has his red check.
Semantics though, like I said I understand your general point and how there is upside to lynching into the cops since the game will eventually (whether this phase or a subsequent one) be determined by that decision. And while I agree that there is some upside to that, I think that I am very clearly and demonstrably the medic; thus making damdred mafia in all worlds so I would prefer to take the guaranteed mafia even if it has slightly lower upside.
On February 14 2017 19:47 Rels wrote: And even for you Damdred if conf town, but you WILL still have to chose between Palmar and LS. I mean, you won't because you would be dead at that point, but town would have to chose anyway. So let's chose today
I mean...not really. Lynching damdred who is conf scum will result in my immediate death since mafia won't risk leaving a conf medic alive cuz of save potential. So technically lynching damdred exempts me from having to choose, but I understand your general point. Some of it is under the assumption that palmar is 100% mafia though, because in the world where Palmar is town the game is literally over.
Nope, the reasonning is not made under the assumption Palmar is 100% mafia. I think Palmar is 99% mafia, but the reasonning is still correct without it.
Your post about LS checking between me and damd is under that assumption though. Because in the world where we lynch LS and get it right, Palmar already has his red check.
OK that part is. But the important thing is that town WILL have to decide between Palmar and LS. If we lynch Damdred first, YOU won't have to decide 'cause you will be dead, but town still will have to.
On February 14 2017 19:58 ritoky wrote: Semantics though, like I said I understand your general point and how there is upside to lynching into the cops since the game will eventually (whether this phase or a subsequent one) be determined by that decision. And while I agree that there is some upside to that, I think that I am very clearly and demonstrably the medic; thus making damdred mafia in all worlds so I would prefer to take the guaranteed mafia even if it has slightly lower upside.
I don't get that though. So you would rather be dead and not be part of the decision that make or break the game ? You have the chance to be alive and be townread and have your opinion matter there
On February 14 2017 19:58 ritoky wrote: Semantics though, like I said I understand your general point and how there is upside to lynching into the cops since the game will eventually (whether this phase or a subsequent one) be determined by that decision. And while I agree that there is some upside to that, I think that I am very clearly and demonstrably the medic; thus making damdred mafia in all worlds so I would prefer to take the guaranteed mafia even if it has slightly lower upside.
I don't get that though. So you would rather be dead and not be part of the decision that make or break the game ? You have the chance to be alive and be townread and have your opinion matter there
Partially because I am back from vacation so my time is pretty much going to disappear at a rapid rate in the next 48 hrs, partially so I can blame other people in the event that they make the wrong call, partially because I prefer to take 100% certainties over non certainties. There's a lot of contributing factors for me.
When I wake up later I guess I will give damdred's filter a read now that I know he is 100% mafia and see if that leads me anywhere on the cop debate.
look if you and malongo agree on wanting to make the cop decision today, then i will suck it up and respect the conf town wishes and make the decision today, since you two would be making it the following phase anyway if i got my way.
Technically Rels is right, there is no new information to be gained in this game, the game is basically over. I know the mafia team.
So we might as well lynch LS today, however there is the little problem of Rels being pre-disposed to thinking I'm mafia because god knows what reason. It's the inherent "lynch-Palmar" bias.
We're all on the same page that if we lynch me we just lose the game today, right?
On February 10 2017 07:34 Palmar wrote: Although it would be fairly fitting for us to lose this game because town got unlucky and someone who's not a dumbass rolled cop
Like I want make sure you absolutely get this in your brain Rels.
Do you know anyone on TL Mafia that believes as much as I do that people just like lynching him? Every time I play, people mistrust me, precisely because I say smart things and.... therefore must be mafia? You know the very, very common "Palmar needs to defend himself on day 2?" thing? I've even had to defend myself after lynching mafia day 1.
People don't trust me.
There is NO WAY that if I was mafia, I would decide to be the one making the fake-claim. This just does not happen. Go ahead and think for a little bit, what are the chances of me coming into the mafia QT and going "hey, I think I'll cc. People tend to believe me and let me live so whatever".
I would never do that.
I don't really know how to defend myself. I've, in my opinion, played this game perfectly. I claimed (as is optimal), I got a green on d1, but did get a red on d2 (which is good), I've "solved" the game, and even my scumreading hunches have been "ok". I was right ritoky was town, and my analysis on Malongo and why he was town turned out to be correct too.
I'm going to eat, I'll be around. please be less stupid.
On February 14 2017 20:15 ritoky wrote: look if you and malongo agree on wanting to make the cop decision today, then i will suck it up and respect the conf town wishes and make the decision today, since you two would be making it the following phase anyway if i got my way.
Yeah I want that. From our (malongo and I) pov it's really stupid to Lynch outside the cops. Cause we just lose the game if you're scum, or back to the same situation if you're town.
Yep Palmar you got fucked by LS playing naively and damdred playing weird about you. Regardless of alignment I might add. It points at you being scum soooo much. If you're town they both played brillantly
On February 13 2017 04:19 Rels wrote: lol if you think Palamr is 99% mafia we lynch Palmar. I'm way less confident on the other dude. Even more though knowing than if we're right tomorrow we have doc claim + another check.
On February 13 2017 04:26 Damdred wrote: If that's what we are relying on though we should no lunch then.
The night kill will be more interesting with Palm/lls alive since they can't kill the cop without saccing and the doc should probably protect you and then we have a kill between ritoky and me. Then the real cop checks mal me or rit.
So more than likely the game is over with a no lynch here to.
Idk just seems simple like that. Doc claims, good report checks. Game is over. And really what if I'm wrong on ls even if this is the 1% he's emulating really well and one ml and a lose I think.
If Damdred is not scum with you this is the point where he should have gone "OK you're right let's kill Palmar".
On February 13 2017 04:17 Damdred wrote: That's an interesting swing from malongo. Puts Palmar one from lynch then moved to no lynch.
Idk the whole sequence has me uneasy, like hints that he knows Palmar is red with his little hint hint thing but then instantly backs off because he could be the real dt.
I'm fact the read progression doesn't make any sense, he starts at Palmar has to be the cop over ls because of his bad posts. Gates both checked rels and then bites Palmar and almost iinstantly unvotes.
I can only see mafia motivation in that.
I know you want to lynch Palmar today rels but I think the correct play is to lynch malongo today. Then finish the game with Palmar v ls.
##vote malongo
And as for your early question rels I think it's 99%. And if mal is scum I think their is no doubt it's palmar. So join me on this one.
On February 13 2017 04:19 Rels wrote: lol if you think Palamr is 99% mafia we lynch Palmar. I'm way less confident on the other dude. Even more though knowing than if we're right tomorrow we have doc claim + another check.
On February 13 2017 04:26 Damdred wrote: If that's what we are relying on though we should no lunch then.
The night kill will be more interesting with Palm/lls alive since they can't kill the cop without saccing and the doc should probably protect you and then we have a kill between ritoky and me. Then the real cop checks mal me or rit.
So more than likely the game is over with a no lynch here to.
Idk just seems simple like that. Doc claims, good report checks. Game is over. And really what if I'm wrong on ls even if this is the 1% he's emulating really well and one ml and a lose I think.
If Damdred is not scum with you this is the point where he should have gone "OK you're right let's kill Palmar".
On February 14 2017 20:54 Rels wrote: Yep Palmar you got fucked by LS playing naively and damdred playing weird about you. Regardless of alignment I might add. It points at you being scum soooo much. If you're town they both played brillantly
No let's be clear.
I didn't get fucked. Well, the only thing that's fucking me over is you, and specifically you. I don't really know where ritoky and malongo stand, but I have a lot more faith they are going to vote with me than you.
If I got "fucked over", it's rolling cop in a game with someone who is so afraid of me lying that he doesn't think, aka you.
My dream scenario is that you, LS and Damdy all vote me, with me, ritoky and malongo voting either damdy or LS, just so I can point and laugh at you for being the worst.
On February 14 2017 21:41 Palmar wrote: Like your argument is "Damdred acts like scum, therefore Palmar must be scum"
It's just.. ?????
- you haven't done anything townie - LS has done townie things - if Damdred is scum his interactions with you are way more partner indicative than his interactions with LS - if ritoky is scum he's with you
What I got 100% sure (for anyone in the game so far):
2 confirmed greens : malongo, rels (at this point if I was mafia then LS is too because of failcheck => Palmar DT then Damdred mafia >< there are no three mafia).
1 mafia In LS vs Palmar 1 mafia 1 doc in ritoky vs Damdred
Possible pairings
Palmar-Damdred: unlikely unless Palmar is sacking his team. It doesn´t make much sense considering that lynching Damdred today would put us 5 vs1, night 4vs1, lynch LS 3vs1, night 2 vs 1 and the last 2 players lynch Palmar anyways.
LS-Damred: the popular choice since the start.
Palmar-ritoky: the pro mafia that fake claimed DT and doc.
LS-ritoky not possible because Palmar.DT makes Damdred mafia.
On February 14 2017 21:18 Rels wrote: Malongo I need you today
I´m here buddy, I`ve read the thread a few times and thinking.
yo. First, agree that if we lynch someone today, it's one of the cops ? Second, if you disagree with me on Palmar tell me
I´d actually lynch LS. Funny thing is, in case we disagree we could have a no lynch scenario. Then we get 6vs2 when mafia actually has to hit one of us.
On February 14 2017 21:18 Rels wrote: Malongo I need you today
I´m here buddy, I`ve read the thread a few times and thinking.
yo. First, agree that if we lynch someone today, it's one of the cops ? Second, if you disagree with me on Palmar tell me
I´d actually lynch LS. Funny thing is, in case we disagree we could have a no lynch scenario. Then we get 6vs2 when mafia actually has to hit one of us.
we can't get a no-lynch scenario.
If the game goes to 3v3 with me/ritoky/you on one side and reks/ls/damdred on the other, Rels will realize he's an idiot and move over, killing LS/Damdred and for all intents and purposes ending the game.
Unless he actually thinks me/ritoky are a scumteam?
On February 14 2017 21:55 Malongo wrote: Palmar-Damdred: unlikely unless Palmar is sacking his team. It doesn´t make much sense considering that lynching Damdred today would put us 5 vs1, night 4vs1, lynch LS 3vs1, night 2 vs 1 and the last 2 players lynch Palmar anyways.
It doesn't prove anything, you failed your maths: lynching Damdred today would put us 4 vs1 night 3vs1 lynch LS 2vs1 night 1 vs 1 SCUM WIN
On February 14 2017 21:41 Palmar wrote: Like your argument is "Damdred acts like scum, therefore Palmar must be scum"
It's just.. ?????
- you haven't done anything townie - LS has done townie things - if Damdred is scum his interactions with you are way more partner indicative than his interactions with LS - if ritoky is scum he's with you
yes I have done townie things, you just didn't read them no he hasn't, he has fumbled around a bit which is par for the course for LS, but doesn't make him town
for the other two, meh, damdred is scum, ritoky isn't.
On February 14 2017 20:15 ritoky wrote: look if you and malongo agree on wanting to make the cop decision today, then i will suck it up and respect the conf town wishes and make the decision today, since you two would be making it the following phase anyway if i got my way.
Yeah I want that. From our (malongo and I) pov it's really stupid to Lynch outside the cops. Cause we just lose the game if you're scum, or back to the same situation if you're town.
Rels, this I don´t get. If Palmar is mafia and we lynch Damdred (assuming him mafia) we still win no?
On February 14 2017 20:15 ritoky wrote: look if you and malongo agree on wanting to make the cop decision today, then i will suck it up and respect the conf town wishes and make the decision today, since you two would be making it the following phase anyway if i got my way.
Yeah I want that. From our (malongo and I) pov it's really stupid to Lynch outside the cops. Cause we just lose the game if you're scum, or back to the same situation if you're town.
Rels, this I don´t get. If Palmar is mafia and we lynch Damdred (assuming him mafia) we still win no?
But I need to work, will be AFK for a few hours. PLEASE NOBODY ELSE VOTES LS IF YOURE TOWN EVEN IF YOURE 100% SURE YOU RE RIGHT. Let's talk more when I'm available
On February 14 2017 22:36 Rels wrote: But I need to work, will be AFK for a few hours. PLEASE NOBODY ELSE VOTES LS IF YOURE TOWN EVEN IF YOURE 100% SURE YOU RE RIGHT. Let's talk more when I'm available
On February 14 2017 22:34 Rels wrote: lol if another townie votes LS we lose instantly if he's town
See, that's the trick, he isn't.
##unvote ##vote LightningStrike
Killing Damdred means another day of arguing with Rels being dumb. I'd rather this ended today (damdred will concede when I'm confirmed cop unless he's an asshole).
At least normally when people irrationally try to kill me for saying townie things and acting like town, I can play the mini-game of trying to figure out which one might be mafia.
Now I just.... know, there's nothing to solve for me here. Just hope for it.
Like if this day is so obvious Rels, why haven't damdred/LS voted me?
Think it's maybe because them doing so and no one jumping the hammer confirms me? Maybe they thought of that? Who knows? Mafia is such a random game wow...
On February 14 2017 23:27 Palmar wrote: well it doesn't confirm me, but the point is, they need to convince ANOTHER townie and then they can hammer. Your vote alone is not enough for them.
I know it's kind of pointless for me to try to convince you, specifically, Rels, as all I really need to do is convince ritoky (with malongo being right). But it just annoys me so much that I can't make everyone be right.
I want everyone to be right, I don't want a contested shit-game lynch. I want glorious stomping of the mafia team with every townie on the right side of history.
On February 14 2017 23:27 Palmar wrote: well it doesn't confirm me, but the point is, they need to convince ANOTHER townie and then they can hammer. Your vote alone is not enough for them.
hahaha
you get the difference right?
If they vote me right now, it's 3v2 with ritoky (who is town) holding the hammer. If they however wait and convince ritoky (or malongo) to vote me, they can blitz the hammer and end the game right there and then on their own terms. It's an advantage.
On February 14 2017 23:34 Malongo wrote: Actually the most important votes are ritoky/damdred here, because it is obvious that Palmar and LS will vote eachother.
Well Damdred has been redchecked by Palmar so he can only vote ritoky or Damdred logically-wise. If he votes LS it's because he just hammered him and the game has been lost
On February 14 2017 23:34 Malongo wrote: Actually the most important votes are ritoky/damdred here, because it is obvious that Palmar and LS will vote eachother.
damdred will vote me, if he votes LS he's just... losing the game for them. When LS flips mafia I'm confirmed unccd cop with red on damdred.
Damdred WILL vote me in EVERY SITUATION.
So assume damdred will vote me. The only important vote here is ritoky (and that stupid french guy).
On February 14 2017 23:33 Palmar wrote: I know it's kind of pointless for me to try to convince you, specifically, Rels, as all I really need to do is convince ritoky (with malongo being right). But it just annoys me so much that I can't make everyone be right.
I want everyone to be right, I don't want a contested shit-game lynch. I want glorious stomping of the mafia team with every townie on the right side of history.
That is wrong, because if you are town we still need his vote to lynch LS, sir you are digging you own hole.
On February 14 2017 23:33 Palmar wrote: I know it's kind of pointless for me to try to convince you, specifically, Rels, as all I really need to do is convince ritoky (with malongo being right). But it just annoys me so much that I can't make everyone be right.
I want everyone to be right, I don't want a contested shit-game lynch. I want glorious stomping of the mafia team with every townie on the right side of history.
That is wrong, because if you are town we still need his vote to lynch LS, sir you are digging you own hole.
No, you are wrong:
If you, me and ritoky vote LS, and damdred/rels/ls vote me it's gonna be 3v3. In that situation, mafia will quickhammer me, IF THEY CAN. But the problem is they CAN NOT, because they're both already on me. When Rels sees that he is town and no mafia moves to quickhammer me, it makes me confirmed town, and Rels will move over and hammer LS, ending the game.
The point is, I don't care about a 3v3 situation that requires damdred and LS to be both on me to make it 3, because they need 2 townies to kill me, not just 1.
When France sends its people, they're not sending their best. They're sending people that have lots of problems, and they're bringing those problems to us. They're bringing bad. They're bringing wrong. They're stubborn.
rels i came to this: ritoky and damdred should be voting first. If they are actually town they should allow us to cast our votes later (since we are confirmed town and Palmar and LS are in shooting duel).
it's basically irrelevant malongo, I told you what damdred would vote. Even if you think I might be mafia why would he not vote scum that just claimed a red check on him.
On February 15 2017 00:05 Palmar wrote: it's basically irrelevant malongo, I told you what damdred would vote. Even if you think I might be mafia why would he not vote scum that just claimed a red check on him.
Yeah i get that, but ritoky is the other piece i`d like to get first.
On February 15 2017 00:05 Palmar wrote: it's basically irrelevant malongo, I told you what damdred would vote. Even if you think I might be mafia why would he not vote scum that just claimed a red check on him.
Yeah i get that, but ritoky is the other piece i`d like to get first.
Sure, but even then he can't hammer anyone but me, and if he's going to do that there's nothing you or I can do to stop him, because the "kill palmar" faction has the 2 mafia + rels already.
On February 15 2017 00:05 Palmar wrote: it's basically irrelevant malongo, I told you what damdred would vote. Even if you think I might be mafia why would he not vote scum that just claimed a red check on him.
Yeah i get that, but ritoky is the other piece i`d like to get first.
Sure, but even then he can't hammer anyone but me, and if he's going to do that there's nothing you or I can do to stop him, because the "kill palmar" faction has the 2 mafia + rels already.
In all honesty if it comes to me choosing a no lynch or you I would switch on you. So it all comes down to rels.
Malongo did you consider a what if Palmar fake red checked Damdred and trying to win the game here? Did you also consider a what if ritoky is fake claiming doctor?
On February 15 2017 01:24 Damdred wrote: ##Vote Palmar
Palmar and Ritoky not the team I thought originaly but the only one it can be .
so. If Palmar is town, the 2 scums are voting for him. So scum cannot hammer him. If he's scum who cares lol. What we need to avoid is 2 town votes on a townie. For now we're good. Let's keep it that way, IE Malongo / ritoky you can't both vote for LS. And please don't hammer Palmar before we can talk. p:
On February 15 2017 01:42 Palmar wrote: sooo Rels, if ritoky comes back to the thread he's confirmed town to you too because otherwise he'd just hammer me. actually malongo is too now.
literally both malongo and ritoky can win the game right here if they're mafia by hammering me (3 votes on me), so they're both confirmed town
Everyone is confirmed town, LS and damdred team
that makes 0 sense. p: The possible teams left are: LS / Damdred Palmar / Damdred Palmar / ritoky
On February 15 2017 01:39 LightningStrike wrote: Or what if Palmar decided to "red check" his partner?
this is suicide because there is no way mafia would know ritoky was gonna claim doc. If mafia buses partner with doc and cop alive, mafia loses outright because the doc can guarantee one more check even if the cop doesn't hit red like I did.
On February 15 2017 01:38 LightningStrike wrote: Malongo did you consider a what if Palmar fake red checked Damdred and trying to win the game here? Did you also consider a what if ritoky is fake claiming doctor?
I'm glad we can see eye to eye here LS. I hope this is what you think because it is the truth no matter what we have to stick together.
On February 15 2017 01:39 LightningStrike wrote: Or what if Palmar decided to "red check" his partner?
this is suicide because there is no way mafia would know ritoky was gonna claim doc. If mafia buses partner with doc and cop alive, mafia loses outright because the doc can guarantee one more check even if the cop doesn't hit red like I did.
That is very false too. Whatever happens, Palmar vs LS needs to be decided at some point, and more checks doesn't change anything.
On February 15 2017 01:38 LightningStrike wrote: Malongo did you consider a what if Palmar fake red checked Damdred and trying to win the game here? Did you also consider a what if ritoky is fake claiming doctor?
I'm glad we can see eye to eye here LS. I hope this is what you think because it is the truth no matter what we have to stick together.
On February 15 2017 01:39 LightningStrike wrote: Or what if Palmar decided to "red check" his partner?
this is suicide because there is no way mafia would know ritoky was gonna claim doc. If mafia buses partner with doc and cop alive, mafia loses outright because the doc can guarantee one more check even if the cop doesn't hit red like I did.
That is very false too. Whatever happens, Palmar vs LS needs to be decided at some point, and more checks doesn't change anything.
wait right, yeah sorry.
Like I keep considering the game from the point of perfect knowledge. You are correct about the palmar vs ls thing.
Like maybe we should be on Damdred because if LS dies damdred has to concede, but there is a chance that LS believes that he can bus damdred by switching, which would be interesting
On February 15 2017 01:52 Palmar wrote: Rels, if it's 3v3 and nothing happens, are you going to let it no-lynch? Because you know that's retarded, right?
nope. Game is finishing this phase, Malongo already said he was gonna lynch you over no-lynching. So either I change my mind somehow before tonight or you'll die.
Ritoky has to vote Palmar to not out himself as mafia at this point in the hopes of going 1 v 1 against me. So if you are siding with me mal hammer Palmar and we can finish this.
On February 15 2017 02:07 Damdred wrote: Ritoky has to vote Palmar to not out himself as mafia at this point in the hopes of going 1 v 1 against me. So if you are siding with me mal hammer Palmar and we can finish this.
that makes 0 sense too. If ritoky / Palmar is the team, and ritoky hammers Palmar, LS is confirmed cop and is protected by you next night. He then checks one of you and the game is over with his check.
On February 15 2017 02:07 Damdred wrote: Ritoky has to vote Palmar to not out himself as mafia at this point in the hopes of going 1 v 1 against me. So if you are siding with me mal hammer Palmar and we can finish this.
that makes 0 sense too. If ritoky / Palmar is the team, and ritoky hammers Palmar, LS is confirmed cop and is protected by you next night. He then checks one of you and the game is over with his check.
Basically what im getting at is the game is over for Ritoky/palmar and there is no real way town loses unless I am lynched today tbh.
On February 15 2017 02:07 Damdred wrote: Ritoky has to vote Palmar to not out himself as mafia at this point in the hopes of going 1 v 1 against me. So if you are siding with me mal hammer Palmar and we can finish this.
Sorry but that would be super risky, we agreed with my archon mode rels to take it slow.
On February 15 2017 02:13 Damdred wrote: It isn't risky though thats the joy of IML, we get to see a flip when we want and it doesnt matter we can talk me vs ritoky during the night time.
Just do it and lets get on with it.
The WIFOM is real. Assuming Damdred is scum. If Palmar is scum with Damdred, Damdred is posting that to appear being with LS and stopping townies on voting Palmar. If LS is scum with Damdred, Damdred is appearing to do exactly what I've just said, but for the opposite result. WIFOM. Totally. Let's ignore Damdred.
On February 15 2017 02:13 Damdred wrote: It isn't risky though thats the joy of IML, we get to see a flip when we want and it doesnt matter we can talk me vs ritoky during the night time.
Just do it and lets get on with it.
Not happening. I came to think that my vote could be useless if ritoky is the real medic and votes Palmar. LOL.
On February 15 2017 02:13 Damdred wrote: It isn't risky though thats the joy of IML, we get to see a flip when we want and it doesnt matter we can talk me vs ritoky during the night time.
Just do it and lets get on with it.
The WIFOM is real. Assuming Damdred is scum. If Palmar is scum with Damdred, Damdred is posting that to appear being with LS and stopping townies on voting Palmar. If LS is scum with Damdred, Damdred is appearing to do exactly what I've just said, but for the opposite result. WIFOM. Totally. Let's ignore Damdred.
And just ignoring me for bs wifom when the whole game of mafia is nothing but wifom is rude and inconsiderate. Nothing really anyone has posted makes me scum at all, i'm confirmed town doctor if i had been able to be here at start of day I was planning on revealing anyway.
Valentines day plans just kept m away rip, but the authentic ramen was amazing.
On February 15 2017 02:13 Damdred wrote: It isn't risky though thats the joy of IML, we get to see a flip when we want and it doesnt matter we can talk me vs ritoky during the night time.
Just do it and lets get on with it.
The WIFOM is real. Assuming Damdred is scum. If Palmar is scum with Damdred, Damdred is posting that to appear being with LS and stopping townies on voting Palmar. If LS is scum with Damdred, Damdred is appearing to do exactly what I've just said, but for the opposite result. WIFOM. Totally. Let's ignore Damdred.
And just ignoring me for bs wifom when the whole game of mafia is nothing but wifom is rude and inconsiderate. Nothing really anyone has posted makes me scum at all, i'm confirmed town doctor if i had been able to be here at start of day I was planning on revealing anyway.
Valentines day plans just kept m away rip, but the authentic ramen was amazing.
well sorry it's not against you but your alignment is not relevant anymore. Since you're always voting Palmar whatever happens. But your actions could still be analysed if someone thinks you're scum to think about your potential partner. I made this post for the other townies to prove that they shouldn't use the posts you're making today to think about your potential partners.
On February 15 2017 02:13 Damdred wrote: It isn't risky though thats the joy of IML, we get to see a flip when we want and it doesnt matter we can talk me vs ritoky during the night time.
Just do it and lets get on with it.
Not happening. I came to think that my vote could be useless if ritoky is the real medic and votes Palmar. LOL.
The opposite is also true, if ritoky is mafia he can`t vote Palmar and win the game (because if ritoky is red then Palmar is too)
So recap LS/Damdred Palmar/Damdred Palmar/ritoky are the only posible choices.
If Palmar town => LS/Damdred If Palmar mafia=> Palmar/ritoky or Palmar/Damdred with Damdred wifoming the voting.
so. First Malongo, I don't know your experience in mafia. I've never seen you, but the database shows that you have several games played already. I don't know if you've ever played with Palmar and LightningStrike, but you can't use the same things to read them. Palmar is always more townie than LS - as either alignments for Palmar and LS. Palmar was considered the best player on this website in 2015. Granted that's a long time ago and now the only #1 place he can have is Best Game, but he's still a great player. Until very recently, LS was an extremely easy read 'cause his scumread was super bad. His recent scumgames have been impressive though, but he still can be read after adjusting. I'll explain that in a moment.
So. Nothing Palmar has done this game is anything he couldn't do as scum. Nothing. Furthermore, his lack of fighting since the start of this game is scum indicative for anyone, and especially for him. Palmar hates being lynched. town!Palmar is very hard to lynch. Actually his philosophy is "if you get lynched it's your own damn fault":
On December 04 2015 21:50 Palmar wrote: Also, if you can't figure out my alignment that's on you, not me. Town hero and eternal leader Damdred figured it out.
Wow you actually do have four pages of filter. Okay. But I do disagree with you viz you "being towny" enough. It's actually not. When you get mislynched its almost always 50% on the idiots who lynched you and 50% on you for being scummy town. That's a really important thing that lots of people forget as town.
I'm literally the goddamn prophet of "if you get lynched it's your own damn fault". That ties very well into what I was saying earlier about why I should never be vigged.
On December 04 2015 21:50 Palmar wrote: Also, if you can't figure out my alignment that's on you, not me. Town hero and eternal leader Damdred figured it out.
Wow you actually do have four pages of filter. Okay. But I do disagree with you viz you "being towny" enough. It's actually not. When you get mislynched its almost always 50% on the idiots who lynched you and 50% on you for being scummy town. That's a really important thing that lots of people forget as town.
I'm literally the goddamn prophet of "if you get lynched it's your own damn fault". That ties very well into what I was saying earlier about why I should never be vigged.
How the fuck did you get these links in 2 minutes.
So knowing that, then reading Palmar filter, you can see it's pretty unlikely be town!Palmar. It's lacking the will. The fighting. Just calling everyone and especially me bad and not bothering anymore. This is not town!Palmar, who in PyP carried the entire lazy town on his back to an almost clean sweep. LightningStrike on the other hand had very townie posts. As said before, he has a good scumgame now. But what he still fails to replicate is how he always doubt and chose the easy as town. He was actually pretty decisive as scum in the last games he played, talking about Millionaire and Liquidmafia Qualifier#1 there. Here we can see him doubting things that SHOULD be obvious. And WOULD be obvious to him if he was scum. Because he's over confident on "THIS DUDE IS CONF TOWN/SCUM" as scum. These posts, I don't see LS doing them unless his scumgame improved AGAIN (and if that happened, then I have no idea how I will read him next game we play together):
On February 10 2017 07:23 LightningStrike wrote: With that being said idk if it makes palmar scum or trying to bait a shot on him instead the real cop (me).
On February 10 2017 07:25 Rels wrote: yeah a cc war already if I had to decide with 0 info Palmar would be the one I lynch. More his type to do this kind of play than LS
Well it night 0 I going to check him.
lol no you aren't. If you're cop he's scum. This is the setup. You're checking anyone but him
Fine but I wanted to make sure he's scum 100%
Thinking Palmar could be town fakeclaiming and wanting to check him.
On February 11 2017 08:19 ritoky wrote: for LS the game should be simple. he isn't mafia, palmar is, rels isn't, i am never mafia; so he literally has 2 suspects: malo and damd.....so what about damdred makes him more town than a guy who claimed doc? because the way LS talks to/about damdred reads to me like he isn't even considering him an option.
Well there is a chance you are scum though. Maybe I should check Damdred if we end up not lynching anyone today.
Showing doubts about ritoky when the easy target is Malongo. I think LS goes "the team is Palmar / Malongo" as scum, like Damdred and I did during D1. It was the easy target. It was the easy red check to fake as scum too.
Voilà about the reads on Palmar and LS themselves. Just taking that into account I'm lynching Palmar 80% of the time there. The first lynch is never the highest probability lynch, which is why it's complicated to have a slamdunk scum in this setup since we only have one lynch, but I would lynch Palmar over LS for that. BUT THAT IS NOT ALL. Now let's take into consideration the other players interactions with Palmar and LS.
IF DAMDRED IS SCUM His treatment of Palmar is very partner indicative. First, you need to know that Damdred is known to bus. A lot. And in this game if he bussed, Palmar is his partner. But more than that, he showed TMI. During D1 he read Palmar as 99% scum, but at the same time tried to lynch you, Malongo. This is extremely logical if he's scum: on one hand he scumread the dude that he knows being scum, but can't afford to lynch; on the other hand, he's trying to get a mislynch. And in doing that, he did something that scum sometimes do when they bus; he used the fact that he KNEW that Palmar was scum to try to lynch ANOTHER TOWNIE:
On February 12 2017 22:32 Damdred wrote: Yeah I was just busy yesterday or I would of posted more.
Like to me the game is really simple, I think LS is just town. I think as scum he would of caved to me badgering him with all of my questions about the doc claim but he just stubbornly kept his no opinion that he did before. I really think as scum he would of just caved at that point and given me what I wanted.
Rels is confirmed town and green.
So basically the game boils down to Rit vs Mal for me and i'm pretty sure my meta read is still accurate on Rit.
Mal has been pretty anti-town and seemingly mafia oriented this game. His doc claim was never going to draw a shot especially if Palmar was scum. It felt more like him trying to draw a CC early in the game and just go with that. He keeps soft scum reading me without any real explanation and just name dropping me he started that n0 with no real explanation. His latest posts not giving any information are still horrid. And then his rescinded claim was just as bad only after direct pressure and people saying they didnt' believe him did he take it back.
Hes the 2nd scum. And in either case if LS/Palmar can get a second check tonight the game is over anyway.
On February 13 2017 04:17 Damdred wrote: That's an interesting swing from malongo. Puts Palmar one from lynch then moved to no lynch.
Idk the whole sequence has me uneasy, like hints that he knows Palmar is red with his little hint hint thing but then instantly backs off because he could be the real dt.
I'm fact the read progression doesn't make any sense, he starts at Palmar has to be the cop over ls because of his bad posts. Gates both checked rels and then bites Palmar and almost iinstantly unvotes.
I can only see mafia motivation in that.
I know you want to lynch Palmar today rels but I think the correct play is to lynch malongo today. Then finish the game with Palmar v ls.
##vote malongo
And as for your early question rels I think it's 99%. And if mal is scum I think their is no doubt it's palmar. So join me on this one.
This is TMI. Right there. If it isn't it's the most perfect fake TMI that I've ever seen. Damdred is drawing a Palmar / Malongo team and tries to lynch Malongo. But when I'm trying to make him change his mind and kill Palmar instead, he refuses:
On February 13 2017 04:26 Damdred wrote: If that's what we are relying on though we should no lunch then.
The night kill will be more interesting with Palm/lls alive since they can't kill the cop without saccing and the doc should probably protect you and then we have a kill between ritoky and me. Then the real cop checks mal me or rit.
So more than likely the game is over with a no lynch here to.
Idk just seems simple like that. Doc claims, good report checks. Game is over. And really what if I'm wrong on ls even if this is the 1% he's emulating really well and one ml and a lose I think.
If he's scum, why ? He was ready to convince people that Malongo was scum and try to kill him. I was obviously more than ready to lynch Palmar. Malongo was easy to convince. LS was voting him. IF DAMDRED WAS SCUM AND PALMAR TOWN DAMDRED FAILED TO GRAB A CHANCE TO LYNCH PALMAR VERY EASILY. Just had to say "Well OK Rels ##vote Palmar". At that point it's important to remember that we'ret alking about scum!Damdred. If Damdred is not scum, ritoky is scum => Palmar is scum. So we're talking about Damdred being scum there => the explanation cannot be "Damdred was town and not that sure Palmar was town". WE RE TALKING ABOUT THE SCENARIO WHERE DAMDRED IS SCUM THERE. WHY DID HE NOT PUSH FOR A PALMAR LYNCH ? THE GAME WAS WON RIGHT THERE.
So these two points make me believe really hard that if Damdred is scum, Palmar is scum.
And yeah I opened that post saying you're a known buser. But my two points have nothing to do with bussing. It's (1) TMI and (2) why the hell wouldn't you push an easy ML on Palmar if you were scum.
Well scum auto loses now if we play properly. They should concede soon. BUT just in case they don't let's not fuck this up. LIGHTNINGSTRIKE: you check Damdred. DAMDRED: you protect LightningStrike. RITOKY: you protect LightninStrike. Tomorrow we lynch Damdred if the check is red, or ritoky if the check is green.
I am super confused, but happy. Why would damdred vote his partner, that's just effectively conceding....w/e there's no real discussion to be had anymore. I am protecting LS, he will green check me or red check you, either way the game is over.
On February 15 2017 05:55 Rels wrote: Well scum auto loses now if we play properly. They should concede soon. BUT just in case they don't let's not fuck this up. LIGHTNINGSTRIKE: you check Damdred. DAMDRED: you protect LightningStrike. RITOKY: you protect LightninStrike. Tomorrow we lynch Damdred if the check is red, or ritoky if the check is green.
Ritoky was playing really smart towards that failclaim if he is mafia, i`d say damdred is mafia like 70% of the time here.
On February 15 2017 05:58 ritoky wrote: I am super confused, but happy. Why would damdred vote his partner, that's just effectively conceding....w/e there's no real discussion to be had anymore. I am protecting LS, he will green check me or red check you, either way the game is over.
On February 15 2017 02:07 Damdred wrote: Ritoky has to vote Palmar to not out himself as mafia at this point in the hopes of going 1 v 1 against me. So if you are siding with me mal hammer Palmar and we can finish this.
On February 15 2017 05:58 ritoky wrote: I am super confused, but happy. Why would damdred vote his partner, that's just effectively conceding....w/e there's no real discussion to be had anymore. I am protecting LS, he will green check me or red check you, either way the game is over.
I guess because he can`t really vote LS when Palmar put him red?
It can't really be WIFOM though in the current gamestate. There's no discussion the following day if you leave the cop and medic alive. The game quite simply just ends because it is fully solved. I understand in a game-state where there's actual wiggle room to talk your way out, but that isn't this game.
On February 15 2017 05:58 ritoky wrote: I am super confused, but happy. Why would damdred vote his partner, that's just effectively conceding....w/e there's no real discussion to be had anymore. I am protecting LS, he will green check me or red check you, either way the game is over.
I guess because he can`t really vote LS when Palmar put him red?
On February 15 2017 06:02 ritoky wrote: It can't really be WIFOM though in the current gamestate. There's no discussion the following day if you leave the cop and medic alive. The game quite simply just ends because it is fully solved. I understand in a game-state where there's actual wiggle room to talk your way out, but that isn't this game.
I agree. Game is over now as long as blues play properly. What I'm saying is that Damdred voted Palmar in a WIFOM attempt. He voted Palmar just after I started changing Malongo's mind about LS and he unvoted.
I would be very frustrated if I were palmar though. I hate it when you put tons of effort into a 1v1 scenario, the other guy doesn't do much of anything, and everyone TRs him for effectively "dumb" reasons.
My protection is on LS, so the entirety of the game comes down to LS typing check ritoky or check damdred to the mods. As long as we clear that hurdle we win.
On February 15 2017 06:05 ritoky wrote: I would be very frustrated if I were palmar though. I hate it when you put tons of effort into a 1v1 scenario, the other guy doesn't do much of anything, and everyone TRs him for effectively "dumb" reasons.
meh dunno about that. None of his posts were townie. Every big posts he had was about mechanics or about how town was bad.
On February 15 2017 06:08 ritoky wrote: Also if you're still reading this, mb vivax, I almost switched the prot onto you. Talked myself down from it though.
On February 15 2017 06:05 ritoky wrote: I would be very frustrated if I were palmar though. I hate it when you put tons of effort into a 1v1 scenario, the other guy doesn't do much of anything, and everyone TRs him for effectively "dumb" reasons.
meh dunno about that. None of his posts were townie. Every big posts he had was about mechanics or about how town was bad.
Well that's the quality of the posts lacking, not the effort level. Plus I have been on the other side trying to scream people out of their LS reads before. It is a very dumb experience. To me, people just seem to arbitrarily take some tiny thing and make up their mind without ever reconsidering when it comes to him (and rsoul to a degree); even if they get burned they still do it again the following game.
On February 15 2017 06:05 ritoky wrote: I would be very frustrated if I were palmar though. I hate it when you put tons of effort into a 1v1 scenario, the other guy doesn't do much of anything, and everyone TRs him for effectively "dumb" reasons.
meh dunno about that. None of his posts were townie. Every big posts he had was about mechanics or about how town was bad.
Well that's the quality of the posts lacking, not the effort level. Plus I have been on the other side trying to scream people out of their LS reads before. It is a very dumb experience. To me, people just seem to arbitrarily take some tiny thing and make up their mind without ever reconsidering when it comes to him (and rsoul to a degree); even if they get burned they still do it again the following game.
Also, good job playing as medic and calling me out.
On February 15 2017 06:05 ritoky wrote: I would be very frustrated if I were palmar though. I hate it when you put tons of effort into a 1v1 scenario, the other guy doesn't do much of anything, and everyone TRs him for effectively "dumb" reasons.
meh dunno about that. None of his posts were townie. Every big posts he had was about mechanics or about how town was bad.
Well that's the quality of the posts lacking, not the effort level. Plus I have been on the other side trying to scream people out of their LS reads before. It is a very dumb experience. To me, people just seem to arbitrarily take some tiny thing and make up their mind without ever reconsidering when it comes to him (and rsoul to a degree); even if they get burned they still do it again the following game.
well that game you make reference to was the first game LS showed a strong scumgame. I'm respecting his scumgame way more now, it can be scarier that before. The thing that fucked Palmar most was not LS being townread for nothing, but Damdred interactions with him.
On February 14 2017 23:47 Palmar wrote: When France sends its people, they're not sending their best. They're sending people that have lots of problems, and they're bringing those problems to us. They're bringing bad. They're bringing wrong. They're stubborn.
On February 10 2017 16:01 Vivax wrote: For now we leave the cop claims be and focus on finding the other scum. No I have no idea who it could be yet, nothing jumps at me particularly.
Palmar should both cop claims check the same guy or not?
Neither should claim who they're checking because mafia will prefer shooting the person checked if he is town. I kinda don't wanna explain more until after daybreak (you can remind me to explain on d1), but please just trust me that it's optimal to not announce my check.
typical mafia talk "ILL EXPLAIN LATER BUT I HAVE GOOD REASONS I PROMISE". It's not that there are not good reasons. Reasons are very likely to be very good. But this line of thoughts ==> "I have a good reason but I'll disclose it later" is a scummy mindset very usually. Especially if the reason is very good.
you are retarded.
I didn't want to talk about the cop options on n1 because of several reasons:
I did not want a cross-check with scum (which I ended up getting anyway) I did not want the scum to shoot my check I did not want scum to panic and go for a big play (try to hope the doc is retarded and didn't protect me) on n1 if I announced I was checking scum I was hoping LS might fuck up and check me (yes, this has happened, more than once in this setup. Mafia claims cop, then claims to check the real cop "to be sure").
Wow I didn't got it but this is another scumtell right there. He absolutely didn't "hope LS might get fucked and check me" 'cause he tutored LS about him being scum in his POV:
On February 10 2017 07:35 LightningStrike wrote: Tbh if Palmar is town idk why he wanted to claim cop (my role) other than trying to take the shot but if he's scum he was trying to get the doc on to him to not protect me.
Jesus please
I cannot be town because I am not retarded enough to fake claim cop as town, it's terrible to do so.
Which brings me to, if this is a stunt, and you're trying to give me a hint that you're actually fake claiming by talking about it, just retract, because it's 100% useless to fake cop as town in this setup. So if you somehow are town and thought it was a good idea, stop RIGHT NOW. I cba dealing with a more complex game than I have to.
And more importantly. THAT DOESNT MAKE SENSE. So what if scum!LS "checks" Palmar ? That doesn't make him any scummier or townier, it's just a super bad check. So he's talking about making LS "waste" a check, but since in his POV LS is scum, there is no check to waste
1) i am not a rude person and won't me people waste days waiting on checks. 2) The plan was for Palmar to hard carry and me he lynched. I should I known rels wouldn't change his mind or waiver much tbh. 3) Its probably the most town sided game I've ever seen I don't think mafia would win 2/10 times like this against the players in the game tbh the setup is way to... stringent. 4) It was a wifom attempt to incriminate ls.
And I should I just voted Palmar yesterday I would of had slightly more of a chance. And I knew for was doctor really early I should of pressed for that kill but meh.
Given town's actions, there is no way scum can win, so we called it.
As some of you expected pre-game, a one-sided town sweep. However, I noticed a couple of things scum could have done differently.
I warned pre-game that scum would have to play proactively, and they didn't really. Palmar CC'ing was good, but checking Rels confirmed a townie off the bat. We discussed some other actions, and almost anything would have been better for scum than giving town a confirmed green on D1. Could have claimed Rels was scum. Could have claimed Vivax town. Or could have hard bussed Damdred from D1. I'm not saying these would've made the game a scum win, but they would have made life harder for town: having Malongo and Rels confirmed town on D2 made life impossible.
Town played well. Particularly Ritoky and Rels carried the game to an easy victory.
On February 15 2017 07:39 Damdred wrote: And I should I just voted Palmar yesterday I would of had slightly more of a chance. And I knew for was doctor really early I should of pressed for that kill but meh.
TBH you couldn't really do that. If you did that you were dead because I would have forced a doc claim during the night. If you didn't fakeclaim, LS check between you and Malongo and we have auto. If you fakeclaimed, LS checks between you and ritoky and we have auto. The setup is all about the 1v1. 1v1 in theory is NOT that imbalanced. But the partner's play is haaaaaaaard. You want to bus your partner to not give it away, but you cannot lynch him. That's where the imbalance is IMO. Like in the QT Palmar says: "There is a chance I claim red on you, but if LS checks you too, that's an instant loss." That is not true. It always comes down to the 1v1 between the cops.
On February 15 2017 07:45 Acrofales wrote: I warned pre-game that scum would have to play proactively.
that wasn't the problem. As koshi talked about pre-game you basically made a terribly unbalanced game and said "well scum have to play well".
I mean, I signed up for it, so I'm not mad, but don't think for a second that this was anything close to a balanced game. We did manage to convince one townie for a time (malongo) but we needed two because ritoky decided to be a hero and save rels. I thought about shooting ritoky or LS (just to go for the big play) but whatever.
The reason why I said confirming Rels as town was Palmar's biggest mistake was because that made it harder for him to go for a mislynch on him or go for a harder to win scenario.
I probably would have just traded myself for the cop if I were in Palmar's shoes and had a strong and active enough player who might be able to talk their way to a win. You net out slightly negative as mafia there, but at least you can't lose via mechanics/checks. Unless you are supremely confident you'll win the 1v1.
Rels, vanilla townie is victorious! LightningStrike, town doctor is victorious! Ritoky, town doctor is victorious! Malongo, vanilla townie is victorious!
LS was too obvious town. Somewhere right at the start of the game Palmar had to explain to LS that he was mafia... That was maybe a mafia tell for Palmar, but it was for 100% sure a towntell for LS.
On February 10 2017 16:01 Vivax wrote: For now we leave the cop claims be and focus on finding the other scum. No I have no idea who it could be yet, nothing jumps at me particularly.
Palmar should both cop claims check the same guy or not?
Neither should claim who they're checking because mafia will prefer shooting the person checked if he is town. I kinda don't wanna explain more until after daybreak (you can remind me to explain on d1), but please just trust me that it's optimal to not announce my check.
typical mafia talk "ILL EXPLAIN LATER BUT I HAVE GOOD REASONS I PROMISE". It's not that there are not good reasons. Reasons are very likely to be very good. But this line of thoughts ==> "I have a good reason but I'll disclose it later" is a scummy mindset very usually. Especially if the reason is very good.
you are retarded.
I didn't want to talk about the cop options on n1 because of several reasons:
I did not want a cross-check with scum (which I ended up getting anyway) I did not want the scum to shoot my check I did not want scum to panic and go for a big play (try to hope the doc is retarded and didn't protect me) on n1 if I announced I was checking scum I was hoping LS might fuck up and check me (yes, this has happened, more than once in this setup. Mafia claims cop, then claims to check the real cop "to be sure").
Wow I didn't got it but this is another scumtell right there. He absolutely didn't "hope LS might get fucked and check me" 'cause he tutored LS about him being scum in his POV:
On February 10 2017 07:35 LightningStrike wrote: Tbh if Palmar is town idk why he wanted to claim cop (my role) other than trying to take the shot but if he's scum he was trying to get the doc on to him to not protect me.
Jesus please
I cannot be town because I am not retarded enough to fake claim cop as town, it's terrible to do so.
Which brings me to, if this is a stunt, and you're trying to give me a hint that you're actually fake claiming by talking about it, just retract, because it's 100% useless to fake cop as town in this setup. So if you somehow are town and thought it was a good idea, stop RIGHT NOW. I cba dealing with a more complex game than I have to.
And more importantly. THAT DOESNT MAKE SENSE. So what if scum!LS "checks" Palmar ? That doesn't make him any scummier or townier, it's just a super bad check. So he's talking about making LS "waste" a check, but since in his POV LS is scum, there is no check to waste
There is both no doubt that the setup heavily favoured town as well as that there was no way scum would win even in a balanced setup when fakeclaiming vs LS
Every mafia makes mistakes and I made some yeah. And we did get unlucky that LS was the cop because of simply how transparently he tends to play this game. We also got unlucky that the entire day 2 was on a weekend so I couldn't establish myself more during that time, but the weekend problems are something I just live with.
In the end, the host wanted to make a game where town won, so he made a town favored setup and succeeded.
For us to win, we needed good play on part of both mafia, and a mistake or two by town.
@ritoky, i don't do blue reads and I never, ever have.
Oooh look, it's nitpick Palmar's posts day. I got one that I commented to Artanis:
On February 14 2017 23:33 Palmar wrote: I know it's kind of pointless for me to try to convince you, specifically, Rels, as all I really need to do is convince ritoky (with malongo being right). But it just annoys me so much that I can't make everyone be right.
I want everyone to be right, I don't want a contested shit-game lynch. I want glorious stomping of the mafia team with every townie on the right side of history.
A town Palmar should know that he does need to convince Rels, however hard that may be. Rels was confirmed town, and the nature of this game is that barring a bus, all of town needs to vote together to kill scum. A few posts later he had corrected himself, and nobody in the game really picked up on it, but it was a small slip in an otherwise convincing lie. Too bad for him that the real cop was quite obviously town :p
On February 15 2017 17:59 Palmar wrote: Every mafia makes mistakes and I made some yeah. And we did get unlucky that LS was the cop because of simply how transparently he tends to play this game. We also got unlucky that the entire day 2 was on a weekend so I couldn't establish myself more during that time, but the weekend problems are something I just live with.
In the end, the host wanted to make a game where town won, so he made a town favored setup and succeeded.
For us to win, we needed good play on part of both mafia, and a mistake or two by town.
@ritoky, i don't do blue reads and I never, ever have.
sad that you weren't on my side, was looking forward to doing some scum hunting with the boys....but most of the boys ended up being mafia.
maybe i will try to get another game in or co-host something in the next 5 months before my twins are born. it got enjoyable for a bit when everyone started talking to me
On February 15 2017 17:59 Palmar wrote: Every mafia makes mistakes and I made some yeah. And we did get unlucky that LS was the cop because of simply how transparently he tends to play this game. We also got unlucky that the entire day 2 was on a weekend so I couldn't establish myself more during that time, but the weekend problems are something I just live with.
In the end, the host wanted to make a game where town won, so he made a town favored setup and succeeded.
For us to win, we needed good play on part of both mafia, and a mistake or two by town.
@ritoky, i don't do blue reads and I never, ever have.
sad that you weren't on my side, was looking forward to doing some scum hunting with the boys....but most of the boys ended up being mafia.
maybe i will try to get another game in or co-host something in the next 5 months before my twins are born. it got enjoyable for a bit when everyone started talking to me
that post made me go lmao btw:
On February 10 2017 08:59 ritoky wrote:
Vacation Musings ft. Ritoky's Wife
"I don't like that Palmar guy. Everything he said seemed pre-meditated, and people who tend to think of all that junk ahead of time are hiding stuff. But he also sounds smart, and smart people make sense. So I don't know, he wrote a bunch of stuff that is probably all factually correct; but can't anyone do that if they're as smart as him anyway?"
"Oh wow, that Lightning guy seems genuinely excited that he did something and wants everyone to notice him....Oh wait now he's whining...I don't like whiners, can you vote on him now?"
ritoky: I whine a lot
"Who said I liked you? Anyways I don't know he sounds weird. Why don't you just vote both of them off the island?"
ritoky: 1 of them has to be mafia and the other one town.
"But you can just vote them both off anyways right? Cuz then you get 1 for sure."
ritoky: From a procedural pov, you kinda can't.
"Well that's dumb, you should be able to. They both sound bad, I wouldn't agonize over it; I would just pick one without thinking too hard about it and if you lose oh well, just blame the person who got voted off for not being good."
tbh i didn't read that post because posts written in that flavor make me see jsut "bla bla bla" and i skip over them. I actually thought ritoky could be mafia early on since he was too town. ^^
that convo was transcribed from our hotel room in disneyworld. she doesn't really know much about mafia, but she is a diehard Survivor fan....so she ballpark understood what i was telling her.
On February 15 2017 18:31 ritoky wrote: also rayn getting my alignment right? NEVER
yep! ^^ although this time i "refused to be right for the "right" reasons" if you know what i mean. tbh i didn't read much (except for the checks and the claims) after there was a no-kill. Well and before, because i thought you or Damdred had to be the doc based on how you treated Malongo's claim (unless he is - but still lynch Palmar, Malongo will be settled later - was my thought).
On February 14 2017 23:33 Palmar wrote: I know it's kind of pointless for me to try to convince you, specifically, Rels, as all I really need to do is convince ritoky (with malongo being right). But it just annoys me so much that I can't make everyone be right.
I want everyone to be right, I don't want a contested shit-game lynch. I want glorious stomping of the mafia team with every townie on the right side of history.
A town Palmar should know that he does need to convince Rels, however hard that may be. Rels was confirmed town, and the nature of this game is that barring a bus, all of town needs to vote together to kill scum. A few posts later he had corrected himself, and nobody in the game really picked up on it, but it was a small slip in an otherwise convincing lie. Too bad for him that the real cop was quite obviously town :p
This is actually just wrong.
Let's assume I'm town for a moment, and the real scumteam is LS/Damdred, as is the situation is the same as I was trying to convince people we are in.
LS/Damdred/Rels all vote me Ritoky/Malongo/Me all vote mafia LS
Here's what would happen, if I was actually town:
If there is 1 mafia on each wagon, the mafia that is voting LS would quickly move to vote me, ending the game in a scum victory.
There cannot be 2 mafia voting LS, because by definition if I am town, LS is mafia. however in rels world there can be
So if we ever reach the stage (3v3) with 2mafia + rels voting me, and 3 townies voting LS, Rels would have to come to the conclusion that he is voting alongside mafia.
Obviously the real case was that I was mafia and what would have happened is damdred would quickly move over and hammer LS, ending the game, which was obviously my endgame as Rels picked up on:
On February 14 2017 23:40 Rels wrote: if ritoky is town and votes LS Damdred hammers LS and game is lost. That is what Palmar is pushing for
HOWEVER: There was no mistake in the worldview that I was pushing. Timeline of what would have happened if I was Town:
1) Rels, LS and Damdred (1 town, 2 mafia, vote Palmar) 2) Palmar convinces ritoky and malongo to vote LS (3 town votes) 3) Stalemate 4) Rels comes to the conclusion (without me convincing him) that one side must have 2 mafia, or otherwise the game ends. 5) Rels needs to make up his mind between the two possible mafia teams (palmar + ritoky) or (ls + damdred). This situation also confirms me town to ritoky.
So no, all I had to do was convince ritoky and malongo I was town, that would always lead to rels having to re-evaluate without me having to do anything to really sway him.
On February 15 2017 18:56 Palmar wrote: The 3v3 stalemate, in other words, proves that palmar+damdred is not a possibility, as if it is, we just win right there.
Are you trying to say that a 3v3 stalemate with 1 mafia in each wagon will convince Rels (when you can just break the stalemate as mafia and win)? I am a bit confused here.
On February 15 2017 18:55 Palmar wrote: 1) Rels, LS and Damdred (1 town, 2 mafia, vote Palmar) 2) Palmar convinces ritoky and malongo to vote LS (3 town votes) 3) Stalemate 4) Rels comes to the conclusion (without me convincing him) that one side must have 2 mafia, or otherwise the game ends. 5) Rels needs to make up his mind between the two possible mafia teams (palmar + ritoky) or (ls + damdred). This situation also confirms me town to ritoky.
So no, all I had to do was convince ritoky and malongo I was town, that would always lead to rels having to re-evaluate without me having to do anything to really sway him.
Well that would not have happened, since as soon as step 2) happens, Damdred can hammer for the scum win.
While you are right from YOUR perspective (if you were town) I am not sure you are right from Rels' perspective since Rels doesn't know if you are mafia or not (and wants people to not vote hastily).
So idk. If you were town, would you have tried to convince Rels the confirmed townie or not? Of course you didn't have to as mafia - but as town, would you or not? What would have been your best play - as town?
While technically you are correct Palmar, would you have - as town - "convince Malongo and ritoky and then Rels must see the light"? I am not sure you would.
OK it was a nice attempt. Shows that the setup was imba though, 'cause the game was sealed only using D1 info for me. It made no sense that Damdred didn't push for your lynch EOD1 when it was an easy victory for scum if you were town and him scum.
On February 15 2017 18:56 Palmar wrote: The 3v3 stalemate, in other words, proves that palmar+damdred is not a possibility, as if it is, we just win right there.
Are you trying to say that a 3v3 stalemate with 1 mafia in each wagon will convince Rels (when you can just break the stalemate as mafia and win)? I am a bit confused here.
No absolutely not. 3v3 with 1 mafia on each wagon, as you pointed out, is by definition not a stalemate, because mafia can just hammer and win.
that is precisely WHY the stalemate proves there isn't 1 mafia on each wagon (unless they trolling, in which case... who cares).
On February 15 2017 19:07 raynpelikoneet wrote: Oh yeah i get it now.
While you are right from YOUR perspective (if you were town) I am not sure you are right from Rels' perspective since Rels doesn't know if you are mafia or not (and wants people to not vote hastily).
So idk. If you were town, would you have tried to convince Rels the confirmed townie or not? Of course you didn't have to as mafia - but as town, would you or not? What would have been your best play - as town?
While technically you are correct Palmar, would you have - as town - "convince Malongo and ritoky and then Rels must see the light"? I am not sure you would.
I don't know, if I knew how I behave as town when I'm scum I'd be unreadable. No one is unreadable.
I would, I think, in both cases have been trying to convince Rels anyway. Probably in a slightly different tone/enthusiasm, but yeah.
yeah, i agree the reason Acrofales says you "scumtold" is not a scumtell. It might be, but for different reasons he outlines, since logically there are no holes in your argument.
I mean fair play town, basically everyone on town played pretty well, which in a setup that already favors town leads you to a win in most cases. Given the teams, I'm pretty sure that even if the game was balanced you would've had a higher than 50% chance of winning and we would have less, because of simply good play by the townies (especially Rels/Ritoky).
There are several interesting tidbits in the mafia QT:
a) I really did not want to be the one claiming cop
I have no idea Damdred
One thing is for certain, we have to claim cop right away. So unless you're here in the next few minutes I'm doing it.
Damdred wasn't around right then, so I went ahead and claimed.
b) I magically predicted precisely LS being the other cop:
It's probably going to fail hilariously, I will know that it's 100% the best play to claim cop and make an argument out of that, then the other cop will be some idiot who does something stupid and adorable and town will just believe him because a) palmar rolls 95% mafia, and b) stupid and adorable.
I'd like to think that if the doc couldn't act on n1, and thus we had freedom to not claim until we had a grasp of the game and maybe some town credit, I would have shot LS, precisely because of the fear that a transparent, naively sounding player that is unlikely to fakeclaim would happen to be the cop.
But to be honest, I probably wouldn't have shot LS
On February 15 2017 19:37 raynpelikoneet wrote: yeah, i agree the reason Acrofales says you "scumtold" is not a scumtell. It might be, but for different reasons he outlines, since logically there are no holes in your argument.
oh I fucked up a lot, I do every game as scum.
But it's usually not logic fuck ups. I mostly get caught on tone/enthusiasm/being wrong in the wrong way. I don't mess up mechanics and poe as scum or town really.
I missed you rayn your posts are always so fun to read even in the past when I was mad at you at points :'(.
But really there were a few ways the game probably could of been balanced a bit better but meh thats not what was wanted. I think palmar and I realized (him before the game) that there really was a super low probability that even if we played perfectly that we could win. There were a couple points where I shoudl of moved more aggressively d1 for sure to the lynch palmar when I knew it would fail anyway as Rit and Mal and a couple others were still undecided about that.
Overall I was pretty much town read until it became impossible for me to be town read and it sucks by d2 having all mafia alive and it being poe'd down just by blue roles. But thats neither here or there.
I would like to play with Rit and Rayn again at some points (i missed you guys)
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