EPTThe main argument to defend Grack is that he could've failed the first mission and sharkie would've been blamed, but since that's what everyone would expect him to do as spy it's the perfect thing to pad your towncred with down the line. It creates a much higher chance to be on two missions.
[T][M] Resistance VI - Page 67
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RtaniSoul
552 Posts
The main argument to defend Grack is that he could've failed the first mission and sharkie would've been blamed, but since that's what everyone would expect him to do as spy it's the perfect thing to pad your towncred with down the line. It creates a much higher chance to be on two missions. | ||
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RtaniSoul
552 Posts
That's not to say we feel SL is clearly town, but we're leaning ever so slightly in that direction. | ||
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RtaniSoul
552 Posts
On February 07 2017 03:34 Grackaroni wrote: Yeah but in this case he would be one of them, so he needs to find 4 of the remaining 5. and this one On February 07 2017 03:42 Grackaroni wrote: lol ok I'll vote accept. Happened pretty quickly. It also doesn't really jive with how he's been someone who likes to keep his votes secret: On January 28 2017 03:33 Grackaroni wrote: I'm going to keep my vote a secret. A mission like the last one would benefit a lot from not knowing whether Grack would vote for or against it if he's town, as it'd give a lot more information due to Grack's position as a potential tiebreaker. As a spy, however, it's in his best interests to let his team know that he wants the mission to pass. | ||
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emperorchampion
Canada9496 Posts
On February 08 2017 16:44 sharkie wrote: So the mission failed after all. Now before we even knew if the mission was going to fail we had our two prominent nayvoters EC and super appear back into the game and post as if it were day one. For me that is way too big a coincidence to happen for both players. Sure I know I am the prime suspect of a spy for pretty much everyone in this game but neither of them posted that much after the first mission was approved and sent out (with me in the team). They only started talking so much when the 4man team was approved. Now of course they will cry vote analysis for this reason but my counter to that is they nayvoted the previous 3 man team too and yet they did not bother to cause such an uproar at that time. So EC, super: tell us why the 4 man team bothered you so much but the 3 man team you let pass quite easily without much rejections? Also I think SL and TW are still owing us explanations for yayvoting the 4man team although the team had people they accuse of being a spy. I don't even about this... | ||
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emperorchampion
Canada9496 Posts
On February 08 2017 16:54 RtaniSoul wrote: Trying to do some VCA right now. The colours aren't related to alignment but based on patterns of voting. Most people vote fairly similarly, just EC, sharkie and superbia have stuck out. Votes: Superbia, why have you voted against every single team so far? EC, can you take us through your vote process? Tumble, what would you have voted on attempt 3 of mission 1 if you were there? Thoughts at the time: mission 1, attempt 3: vote yay because my team, maybe tumble is scum -- can look to him if fails mission 1, attempt 4: vote nay because sharkie is maybe scum, and previous logic is bad mission 2, attempt 1: vote nay because based off of vca there is at least 1 scum on the 3 man team | ||
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RtaniSoul
552 Posts
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Vivax
22408 Posts
It's a great question thanks for bringing it up | ||
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Silverika
United States231 Posts
Rtani Soul is very Town. Not only because of the amount of analysis in the game, but the tone of the posting, the level of frustration, and they make no sense as scum with anyone on the failed mission. I thought Grack would never fail a mission with sharkie there to take the fall but I'm gonna stop using this kind of stuff to analyze and actually filter dive grack more. There are things from sharkie and Vivax that look pretty Town so I can't write either of them off as spies. Also, I want to look at that old resistance game so many of you were in. Will do this in a little bit-filter dive grack and look at that game. ~SilverWolf77 | ||
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Tumblewood
United States3709 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + me silver vivax ... rtani super ec ... sharkie grack sl and of course one of grack and sharkie is town, probably, which is the trouble. so really there has to be one of my townleans/nulls that I'm wrong on. feels like a crapshoot whether we get this right. ugh I wanna go back to nominating 3 people | ||
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sharkie
Austria18727 Posts
Suddenly Grack is everyone's favourite guy to hit upon? How can anyone turn from most trusted guy (wanted on the team by literally everyone) to the dumping ground of mistrust. And the most surprising thing out of all is how vivax and RT totally forgot their vendetta with each other and suddenly are best buddies (not saying that both of them are spies). I don't think I have ever seen anyone jump up so high in trust as vivax did while being in a failed mission. Everyone can imagine Grack being the mastermind from the shadows, manipulating everyone from day one. Yesterday most didn't even bother listening to what I was saying how good spies don't play it the conventional way and you believed that I have to be obvious spy 100% (with the exception of RT). If you can consider Grack being a spy then surely silver can be a spy too (not saying that they are but has to be kept in mind). Way too many people are ganging up on Grack (math wise). Also I even read how SL could be a possible resistance player, now that is one thing I cannot imagine at all. That guy doesn't care one bit about what is happening in the game. He doesn't even know who was sent out for the second mission.. Now I expect I get shit for defending Grack just like RT did yesterday for defending me... | ||
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Vivax
22408 Posts
On February 09 2017 00:47 sharkie wrote: What is wrong with you all? Suddenly Grack is everyone's favourite guy to hit upon? How can anyone turn from most trusted guy (wanted on the team by literally everyone) to the dumping ground of mistrust. And the most surprising thing out of all is how vivax and RT totally forgot their vendetta with each other and suddenly are best buddies (not saying that both of them are spies). I don't think I have ever seen anyone jump up so high in trust as vivax did while being in a failed mission. Everyone can imagine Grack being the mastermind from the shadows, manipulating everyone from day one. Yesterday most didn't even bother listening to what I was saying how good spies don't play it the conventional way and you believed that I have to be obvious spy 100% (with the exception of RT). If you can consider Grack being a spy then surely silver can be a spy too (not saying that they are but has to be kept in mind). Way too many people are ganging up on Grack (math wise). Also I even read how SL could be a possible resistance player, now that is one thing I cannot imagine at all. That guy doesn't care one bit about what is happening in the game. He doesn't even know who was sent out for the second mission.. Now I expect I get shit for defending Grack just like RT did yesterday for defending me... who would you sub in instead of me and if it fails, who is the spy? | ||
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RtaniSoul
552 Posts
Sharkie, there's two reasons from my side. The first is that the reasons to townread Grack for me has always been what he's done rather than how he's done it. The two reasons to townread Grack beyond some of his content are that the first mission passed when he could've failed it and let the blame hit you, and that he scumread vivax when he could've joined the sharkie/rtan hate train. The first can be explained by the fact that if he's a spy, grack is probably their carry. Failing the first mission is more likely to get him scrutiny down the road as many people have used this argument to call him town. The second I believe comes from TMI. He knows you're resistance and reading what you've posted it looks really townie to him, plus it seems like something that spies are unlikely to do which has been the foundation of his townread. The second is that all the three others have done things I find much more unlikely to come from scum. Silverika has pushed the thread forward a myriad of times and his reads have been rigid at times yet flexible at others, most notably in their return just now where he got off the rtan/sharkie is def spies train to re-eval that. They aren't in a rush to draw a conclusion either. I went through their filter a bit yesterday and found it impossible to see a spy narrative there. Vivax is harder to explain and simple at the same time. He sucks at scum and unless he has a strong team is unlikely to try hard. Additionally, the weird things he's done just don't have the predictable townread consequences that grack has. Forcing yourself not to be on a team even when everyone TR's you doesn't make sense for scum. He also feels like he was way too smug about "catching" us which I have difficulty seeing coming from scum Vivax. | ||
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RtaniSoul
552 Posts
On February 09 2017 00:47 sharkie wrote: What is wrong with you all? Suddenly Grack is everyone's favourite guy to hit upon? How can anyone turn from most trusted guy (wanted on the team by literally everyone) to the dumping ground of mistrust. And the most surprising thing out of all is how vivax and RT totally forgot their vendetta with each other and suddenly are best buddies (not saying that both of them are spies). I don't think I have ever seen anyone jump up so high in trust as vivax did while being in a failed mission. Everyone can imagine Grack being the mastermind from the shadows, manipulating everyone from day one. Yesterday most didn't even bother listening to what I was saying how good spies don't play it the conventional way and you believed that I have to be obvious spy 100% (with the exception of RT). If you can consider Grack being a spy then surely silver can be a spy too (not saying that they are but has to be kept in mind). Way too many people are ganging up on Grack (math wise). Also I even read how SL could be a possible resistance player, now that is one thing I cannot imagine at all. That guy doesn't care one bit about what is happening in the game. He doesn't even know who was sent out for the second mission.. Now I expect I get shit for defending Grack just like RT did yesterday for defending me... are way too many people ganging up on grack? you said math-wise so it sounds like you counted sl just doesn't have much of a reason to do a few things he's done as scum. the biggest one for me is closing his option to put us on a scum team together with you...obviously since we know we're town that carries more weight for us than it would for others, but there it is | ||
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Grackaroni
United States9857 Posts
On February 08 2017 19:05 RtaniSoul wrote: I'm actually starting to think grack is the spy. Bleh. ^ cause i explained it to him  though to be fair, he's still very convinced sharkie is town (resistance whatevs) based on feels. but mainly it comes down to grack being so adamant that it must be vivax...as town i'd expect him to be more leery of the other two on the first mission with him, but instead he goes straight to it's the new guy!there's more spy motive to that than town...namely, if you say it's the new guy loud enough maybe no one looks to the original three This is false. I was suspicious of the original three during the day, unlike you It's also bullshit. The general consensus was that the spy was on the original team, and more specifically that the spy was sharkie. You're acting like the scenario was that everyone was just writing off the original team as scum free, when that just wasn't the case. But I do think that there is spy motive in you trying to demonize me for this when before you were saying that it was less likely for me to call Vivax as scum. Mostly based on how weak and inaccurate the bold statement is that caused you to flip that idea. | ||
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Grackaroni
United States9857 Posts
On February 08 2017 19:09 RtaniSoul wrote: For me it's also a PoE thing. Sharkie looks overwhelmingly town in so many of his posts as does Silverika, and the amount Vivax has invested in this game plus his usual tunnelvision suggests pretty strongly that he's town to me as well. The main argument to defend Grack is that he could've failed the first mission and sharkie would've been blamed, but since that's what everyone would expect him to do as spy it's the perfect thing to pad your towncred with down the line. It creates a much higher chance to be on two missions. I actually think that's a pretty reasonable POE. But pretend for a second that I am town and you know that I am town. Which one of the three is mafia? | ||
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Grackaroni
United States9857 Posts
On February 09 2017 01:25 RtaniSoul wrote: Typing from mobile Sharkie, there's two reasons from my side. The first is that the reasons to townread Grack for me has always been what he's done rather than how he's done it. The two reasons to townread Grack beyond some of his content are that the first mission passed when he could've failed it and let the blame hit you, and that he scumread vivax when he could've joined the sharkie/rtan hate train. The first can be explained by the fact that if he's a spy, grack is probably their carry. Failing the first mission is more likely to get him scrutiny down the road as many people have used this argument to call him town. The second I believe comes from TMI. He knows you're resistance and reading what you've posted it looks really townie to him, plus it seems like something that spies are unlikely to do which has been the foundation of his townread. The second is that all the three others have done things I find much more unlikely to come from scum. Silverika has pushed the thread forward a myriad of times and his reads have been rigid at times yet flexible at others, most notably in their return just now where he got off the rtan/sharkie is def spies train to re-eval that. They aren't in a rush to draw a conclusion either. I went through their filter a bit yesterday and found it impossible to see a spy narrative there. Vivax is harder to explain and simple at the same time. He sucks at scum and unless he has a strong team is unlikely to try hard. Additionally, the weird things he's done just don't have the predictable townread consequences that grack has. Forcing yourself not to be on a team even when everyone TR's you doesn't make sense for scum. He also feels like he was way too smug about "catching" us which I have difficulty seeing coming from scum Vivax. Overall I still think that Vivax/Artanisoul are the scummers. Look at the way that Artanisoul is interpreting my actions compared to the way he interprets Vivax's actions. Grackaroni is town reading the person who I view as obvious town instead of trying to push the blame onto him like Vivax/Silverika were doing? It must be TMI. He's just trying to get town read by doing things that spies are unlikely to do. Vivax attacks people for including themselves in their teams and then follows up by not including himself in his team? That seems like something that spies are unlikely to do, so he's probably town. Also I don't think the description of Vivax's scum play is entirely accurate. He had a strong scum game just recently in Haunted Mansion. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/513523-haunted-mansion-3?user=Vivax&page=5 | ||
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RtaniSoul
552 Posts
On February 09 2017 04:10 Grackaroni wrote: I actually think that's a pretty reasonable POE. But pretend for a second that I am town and you know that I am town. Which one of the three is mafia? ??? how exactly do you think it's a reasonable PoE when the PoE leads to you? like it literally says "everyone else is posting townie, and our main reason to townread grack was the success of the first mission" you're not making sense | ||
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RtaniSoul
552 Posts
On February 09 2017 04:32 Grackaroni wrote: Overall I still think that Vivax/Artanisoul are the scummers. Look at the way that Artanisoul is interpreting my actions compared to the way he interprets Vivax's actions. Grackaroni is town reading the person who I view as obvious town instead of trying to push the blame onto him like Vivax/Silverika were doing? It must be TMI. He's just trying to get town read by doing things that spies are unlikely to do. Vivax attacks people for including themselves in their teams and then follows up by not including himself in his team? That seems like something that spies are unlikely to do, so he's probably town. Also I don't think the description of Vivax's scum play is entirely accurate. He had a strong scum game just recently in Haunted Mansion. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/513523-haunted-mansion-3?user=Vivax&page=5 i will admit that your play here is not optimal. assuming that we're right and you are scum, you may want to take a page from darthpunk's book and crawl right up the ass of whoever is blindly townreading you...take it from the one who gets mislynched when that happens; it's fucking frustrating idk grack, you post some good posts here and there, but we've just never got that super shiny town vibe from you i guess? lex and i were both going please let this mission pass, please let this mission pass, would be so sick to win, damn all the silent people suddenly got active this is not a defeated spy team -_- and yeah, you were the one that just kept sticking out to us could we be wrong? sure. don't think so. you certainly won't convince us WE'RE spies though lol >< also, if you want to know why you personally give me the heebie jeebies, it's just this feeling that you're preemptively attempting to control the narrative when/if missions fail. i really don't think i'm going to play forum resistance again because i really dislike the lack of concrete information, but why go into a flurry about all the ifs ands or buts before we even see a result on a mission? that's pure speculation, which breeds paranoia, which isn't town-favored | ||
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RtaniSoul
552 Posts
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Grackaroni
United States9857 Posts
On February 09 2017 04:47 RtaniSoul wrote: ??? how exactly do you think it's a reasonable PoE when the PoE leads to you? like it literally says "everyone else is posting townie, and our main reason to townread grack was the success of the first mission" you're not making sense Because I did a similar POE to get to Vivax, which was pretty clear from my posts. | ||
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