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On December 09 2016 01:14 cakepie wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2016 00:46 Tumblewood wrote:
speaking of Koshi, cakepie's performance in this game really reminds me of Koshi in R1H mafia.tunneled on me all game with a bad but extensively written case and refused to back down, and also won. Koshi was mafia that game btw You're trying to apply Koshi meta on me. That's ... disingenuous.
fair point, except the part where it's disingenuous.
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and for the record I have not been useless this game. I have figured out (probably) both the scum out of three people, defended myself against accusations, and been the source of hmalf the game's posts. really not sure how town could do any more on a day one where we aren't lynching.
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actually there's one more thing
how do I convince people I'm right in a town where no one plays like me or has played with me (except NU, once)
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all scumhunting is anyway is taking someone's posting, comparing it to their meta, and comparing it to the "general meta" of how scum overall tend to act. I don't think it's disingenuous to say "the last time I saw someone act like this, they were scum". that's a pretty normal thought process to me
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well I'm never going to convince you that you're scum. but understand that I am doing the best job I can finding scum using logic I consider to be good.
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hm I'm trying to get out of the town tunnel mindset on NU so I'm trying to make a scum case on him but I actually have no dirt (besides my personal vendetta on the word opportunistic). is anyone scumreading him? I want some perspective here.
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yeah looking at the scum filter + having heard his history on that other site, there's no way NU is this convincing as scum
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On December 09 2016 03:46 cakepie wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2016 02:48 cakepie wrote:
he "largely agrees" with my TW case [...] There's zero progression / information for how he got there. Hm, maybe not completely zero, but there is this bit: Show nested quote +On December 08 2016 15:27 ExO_ wrote:
I don't think cakepie is being an asshat. and I find the tone of your posts here to be odd. Saying they could go either way, instead of saying I'm town and you're clearly wrong I think says a lot about the position you are speaking from. But still there is very little: #98 TW looks Town. <-- no elaboration! #107 "Why are you making me scumread TW?" <-- couched read?! #153 cakepie isn't an asshat and TW's tone is off #161 "largely agrees" with my TW case <-- no elaboration!
I can get behind him not elaborating but there's definitely a progression there — I don't know what else you'd call what you outlined. his change of opinion gives me no trouble.
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ray, accusing someone of distancing is not an argument for them being scum. also, being concerned with one's perception is a pretty weak tell, because both town and scum do it + Show Spoiler +turns out no one likes being lynched
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re: cakepie - ExO's mistake was very likely unintentional. it's not something I've ever seen faked by mafia. if it was a mistake, then the information effectively was new to ExO, even if it was always there.
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On December 09 2016 04:35 Hopeless1der wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2016 04:33 Tumblewood wrote:ray, accusing someone of distancing is not an argument for them being scum. also, being concerned with one's perception is a pretty weak tell, because both town and scum do it + Show Spoiler +turns out no one likes being lynched and because the line between "a regular amount" and "too much" is incredibly subjective Pick one and proceed.
is this your question? I don't see a conflict here.
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On December 09 2016 04:50 Chairman Ray wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2016 04:33 Tumblewood wrote:ray, accusing someone of distancing is not an argument for them being scum. also, being concerned with one's perception is a pretty weak tell, because both town and scum do it + Show Spoiler +turns out no one likes being lynched and because the line between "a regular amount" and "too much" is incredibly subjective You argue that being worried about perception can be either town or mafia, and it's incredibly subjective, that I agree with, which is why I pushed on him. However, you came to NU's defense before letting him speak for himself, which is a direct contradiction with your argument. Just a few posts ago you were asking for other people's scumreads on NU so you can gain some perspective. You don't actually seem that interested after all.
I did want someone to help play devil's advocate and then saw yet another example of the trend where every single game he's scum he dies D1 because he's painfully obvious.
and there is no contradiction in my argument. I wasn't defending him so much as calling out your shitty argument..
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On December 09 2016 05:25 Hopeless1der wrote:
Also to spell it out for you, a read cannot be simultaneously "not an argument" and "subjective". Those are mutually exclusive traits of an argument.
I was using those words talking about two different parts of the quote, aka the first part is not an argument and the second is subjective, if you were fucking reading it
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On December 09 2016 05:43 Chairman Ray wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2016 05:26 Tumblewood wrote:On December 09 2016 04:50 Chairman Ray wrote:On December 09 2016 04:33 Tumblewood wrote:ray, accusing someone of distancing is not an argument for them being scum. also, being concerned with one's perception is a pretty weak tell, because both town and scum do it + Show Spoiler +turns out no one likes being lynched and because the line between "a regular amount" and "too much" is incredibly subjective You argue that being worried about perception can be either town or mafia, and it's incredibly subjective, that I agree with, which is why I pushed on him. However, you came to NU's defense before letting him speak for himself, which is a direct contradiction with your argument. Just a few posts ago you were asking for other people's scumreads on NU so you can gain some perspective. You don't actually seem that interested after all. I did want someone to help play devil's advocate and then saw yet another example of the trend where every single game he's scum he dies D1 because he's painfully obvious. and there is no contradiction in my argument. I wasn't defending him so much as calling out your shitty argument.. I don't buy this at all. You argued how NU acted could be either town or mafia, and it's subjective. But the way you are acting now, and have been throughout the game, you already have your mind made up that he's town.
I wanted perspective because I was worried I was accepting him as town too easily, and looking through his scum game affirmed that there's no way he could pull this off as scum.
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On December 09 2016 05:44 Hopeless1der wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2016 05:28 Tumblewood wrote:On December 09 2016 05:25 Hopeless1der wrote:
Also to spell it out for you, a read cannot be simultaneously "not an argument" and "subjective". Those are mutually exclusive traits of an argument. I was using those words talking about two different parts of the quote, aka the first part is not an argument and the second is subjective, if you were fucking reading it And yet you still have not given ONE of the binary answers I've prescribed.
here's a question: are you scum? answer either yes, openly or yes but I'm not telling you.
this is how i feeel about your two binary answers. they're both bad and the real answer is valid. read what I said again: I used two mutually exclusive terms to talk about TWo DIFDERENT THINGS
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On December 09 2016 05:47 Chairman Ray wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2016 05:26 Tumblewood wrote:On December 09 2016 04:50 Chairman Ray wrote:On December 09 2016 04:33 Tumblewood wrote:ray, accusing someone of distancing is not an argument for them being scum. also, being concerned with one's perception is a pretty weak tell, because both town and scum do it + Show Spoiler +turns out no one likes being lynched and because the line between "a regular amount" and "too much" is incredibly subjective You argue that being worried about perception can be either town or mafia, and it's incredibly subjective, that I agree with, which is why I pushed on him. However, you came to NU's defense before letting him speak for himself, which is a direct contradiction with your argument. Just a few posts ago you were asking for other people's scumreads on NU so you can gain some perspective. You don't actually seem that interested after all. I did want someone to help play devil's advocate and then saw yet another example of the trend where every single game he's scum he dies D1 because he's painfully obvious. and there is no contradiction in my argument. I wasn't defending him so much as calling out your shitty argument.. Ok I'm trying to think about this from your perspective. Chairman Ray made a very polarizing post giving only the mafia perspective of NU's gameplay. I feel that NU's gameplay also makes sense from a town perspective. I'm going to point out this flaw to Chairman Ray. Is this the correct interpretation?
I don't fully understand your interpretation so I will rephrase my own:
ray is making a point that NU is distancing from me ergo NU is scum (maybe I misinterpreted your post) -> that's not a valid argument. in the same post ray says NU cares about his image too much ergo NU is scum -> I will point out that that's a bad tell to use because it is subjective and not useful.
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look I'm busy from 1:15 to 2:15 so speak now or for an hour hold your peace
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tonight I will have a lot of time, which I will use to post extensive/organized reads (actually I have about 45 minutes to answer questions now).
given that I had two votes and no one hammered, we can eliminate the following scum teams:
ExO + NU
ExO + 1der
1der + NU
all other teams (there are 15 possible) would either need an extra town vote to hammer or include me. I strongly believe that both members of the scum team fall within cakepie, ray, and 1der.
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On December 09 2016 07:29 Chairman Ray wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2016 06:44 Hopeless1der wrote:
TW was not slammed when 2 people voted him, Either one of the voters (CR and cake) were scum OR TW is scum. Technically its possible that everyone involved is wrong, but fuck that noise, I'm calling TW scum, Good fucking game.
Cop, dont claim until you absolutely have to at end of Nightphase.
If TW claims cop, lynch that piece of garbage. I will not accept him claiming cop this game.
##Unvote##Vote: Tumblewood
I fully understand that this day is going to be a no lynch. I'm like 51/49 on lynhching TW today. Show nested quote +On December 09 2016 07:19 Tumblewood wrote:
tonight I will have a lot of time, which I will use to post extensive/organized reads (actually I have about 45 minutes to answer questions now).
given that I had two votes and no one hammered, we can eliminate the following scum teams:
ExO + NU
ExO + 1der
1der + NU
all other teams (there are 15 possible) would either need an extra town vote to hammer or include me. I strongly believe that both members of the scum team fall within cakepie, ray, and 1der. What about the scenario where a scum just wasn't online at the time?
hm that's true. it was a long time that I sat with two votes, but neither ExO not NU posted in that time. I doubt on other grounds that they're scum, but really it seems the votes have determined nothing for certain.
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The case on Hopeless1der
Preamble
I plan on writing posts like this for each player still alive besides myself, going in order the filters are listed. This isn't necessarily an indictment but an analysis of each player and a reasoned guess to their alignment, trying to start from square one and not cloud my judgement with previous bias. I will not go through every post, but I will use quotes liberally.
The case for
- In this post, near the start, 1der is incredulous (and clarifies -- it's like the mafia equivalent of a double-take) in a way that mafia rarely are.
- This post + Show Spoiler [quoted] +
On December 09 2016 04:35 Hopeless1der wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2016 04:33 Tumblewood wrote:ray, accusing someone of distancing is not an argument for them being scum. also, being concerned with one's perception is a pretty weak tell, because both town and scum do it + Show Spoiler +turns out no one likes being lynched and because the line between "a regular amount" and "too much" is incredibly subjective Pick one and proceed.
- The threat 1der makes + Show Spoiler [near deadline] +
On December 09 2016 04:47 Hopeless1der wrote:
a little over 2 hours left today..TW if I dont get an answer in the next hour I'm voting you.
The case against
- N0 he made one post and left. The post + Show Spoiler [in question] +
On December 07 2016 00:21 Hopeless1der wrote:
Why are there suggestions for the cop to claim during D1? Why not end of N1 when theres a chance at 2 checks?
- Next day he initiated wanting to lynch me, but he didn't present any reasons of his own; he sheeped cakepie + Show Spoiler +
On December 08 2016 03:27 Hopeless1der wrote:
cakepie is it okay if I just sheep you today?
- 1der puts full trust into cakepie as town without ever discussing why (this is the first comment on cakepie's alignment: + Show Spoiler [but only barely] +
On December 09 2016 04:12 Hopeless1der wrote:but really, thank you for putting in the work for town cakepie 
- 1der asks me to pick between two non-contradictory statements I made + Show Spoiler [right here] +
On December 09 2016 04:35 Hopeless1der wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2016 04:33 Tumblewood wrote:ray, accusing someone of distancing is not an argument for them being scum. also, being concerned with one's perception is a pretty weak tell, because both town and scum do it + Show Spoiler +turns out no one likes being lynched and because the line between "a regular amount" and "too much" is incredibly subjective Pick one and proceed.
Verdict
Probable scum. There are reasons to believe 1der is not scum, but his game is so focused on getting me lynched (especially given his shortage of original reasons) that it is hard to see him as town.
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EPT
