EPTNewbie Student Mafia XXIV - Page 20
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darthfoley
United States8004 Posts
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NeverUnlucky
Canada1622 Posts
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mahrgell
Germany3943 Posts
On November 03 2016 09:25 NeverUnlucky wrote: ... and because I alluded to ExO possibly being blue. Notice how he says that I am a townie aka he knows I am town while scum-reading me? This is spewing. - read it as "can you imagine a townie speculating". I already said that I try to interpret actions from both sides. And here it completely failed to interpret this from a town perspective. Because I still don't see any motivation for a townie to speculate about it. But I guess you prefer to grammartwist it and imply stuff that wasn't there. Also, he fails to explain how this makes me scum. He says that my post wasn't smart, which I agree with, but doesn't say that it makes me scum. Scum would have that blue talk in their respective QT, yes, I made a mistake by alluding to this possibility, but it really doesn't make me scum. Okay, as you asked for the explanation, I thought this would be obvious. No, I did not see it as you hinting your scumbuddies to this guy potentially being a blue. So your argument is completely moot. But there are still 2 scenarios for this to be scumplay imho: a) an attempt for getting a blueclaim out early, if that line was intentional b) if the line was unintentional... Scum has to make up stuff, has to look like they are provinding reads and content, without giving anythign away but confusion and misleads. And yes, when making up stuff, sometimes mistakes happen. So call it a slip. If it was a) I would be very disappointed in you, but b) I consider fully in the realm of possibilities. If I weight your very weird interpretation of my "A townie speculating" and compare it to my interpretation of your bluesuspicion... I give my own interpretation more likelihood to be anything than yours. | ||
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mahrgell
Germany3943 Posts
On November 03 2016 09:38 darthfoley wrote: My favorite part of NU's rebuttal of mahrgell's case is the bit about towncred. The mindset is very odd; as a town, I'm not particularly worried about gaining towncred, rather, I wanna find Mafia which towncred is a natural byproduct. Bad logic and bad case I guess I played the game wrong all the time. But knowing Mafia while being a dick to all other townies so you are ignored doesn't help the best townie. And if you just go back to the page where my original post was posted, you can see that it was littered with trash posts from NU vs Calix. NU completely abandoned his "lets make a good town atmosphere" plan from earlier. If telling someone to be reasonable if he wants to be heard is a scumlean now... Well, I take it. | ||
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mahrgell
Germany3943 Posts
 already nearing the end of the 2nd period. | ||
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NeverUnlucky
Canada1622 Posts
On November 03 2016 10:06 mahrgell wrote: I hate you all, now I missed the Habs game already nearing the end of the 2nd period.No worries, it's a typical Habs game. Get outshot 21-4 in the first 30 minutes, still have a lead after the second period. Carey Price stuff. | ||
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NeverUnlucky
Canada1622 Posts
On November 03 2016 09:51 mahrgell wrote: - read it as "can you imagine a townie speculating". I already said that I try to interpret actions from both sides. And here it completely failed to interpret this from a town perspective. Because I still don't see any motivation for a townie to speculate about it. But I guess you prefer to grammartwist it and imply stuff that wasn't there. Okay, as you asked for the explanation, I thought this would be obvious. No, I did not see it as you hinting your scumbuddies to this guy potentially being a blue. So your argument is completely moot. But there are still 2 scenarios for this to be scumplay imho: a) an attempt for getting a blueclaim out early, if that line was intentional b) if the line was unintentional... Scum has to make up stuff, has to look like they are provinding reads and content, without giving anythign away but confusion and misleads. And yes, when making up stuff, sometimes mistakes happen. So call it a slip. If it was a) I would be very disappointed in you, but b) I consider fully in the realm of possibilities. If I weight your very weird interpretation of my "A townie speculating" and compare it to my interpretation of your bluesuspicion... I give my own interpretation more likelihood to be anything than yours. There was no grammar-twist in there. When does someone that's not SilverWolf17 ever claim blue <6 hours into the game? How is a) even foreseeable? b) doesn't make sense in the context of what happened. Like, after all these posts regarding me, you have 1 legitimate reason to scum-read me for, and that's the one about me "buddying" Calix. I have proven it wrong. Sooooooooooooooooooooooooooo | ||
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darthfoley
United States8004 Posts
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NeverUnlucky
Canada1622 Posts
Poll: Is mahrgell scum? Yes. (3) All of the above. (3) Null-read / Not sure. (1) No. (0) 7 total votes Your vote: Is mahrgell scum? (Vote): Yes. this site is slow af | ||
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NeverUnlucky
Canada1622 Posts
On November 03 2016 10:23 darthfoley wrote: Mahrgell I've already voiced my displeasure with the amount of salty shitposting from people today, especially between Calix and NU. So much OMGUS You know my name, not my story. | ||
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NeverUnlucky
Canada1622 Posts
##Vote ExO_ | ||
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mahrgell
Germany3943 Posts
On November 03 2016 11:05 NeverUnlucky wrote: ##Unvote ##Vote ExO_ Is this vote as serious as your last 2? Or now really based on the points made here? I should probably read Exos filter again... Anyway... Habs game over, I can sleep now ^.^ Whoever feels throwing questions at me, go ahead, I will answer later. | ||
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NeverUnlucky
Canada1622 Posts
On November 03 2016 11:24 mahrgell wrote: Is this vote as serious as your last 2? Or now really based on the points made here? I should probably read Exos filter again... Anyway... Habs game over, I can sleep now ^.^ Whoever feels throwing questions at me, go ahead, I will answer later. All my votes were serious. | ||
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cakepie
985 Posts
Vote Count ExO_ (2) : Calix (1) : ExO_, NeverUnlucky (1) : Calix mahrgell (1) : Foreman Foreman (1) : mahrgell Not voting (3) : darthfoley, Rels, Skynx Currently, ExO_ is set to be lynched! The day phase will end at Friday, Nov 04 5:59pm GMT (GMT+00:00), about 1 day 15 hours from this post. remain as you are reading this. Remember, voting is mandatory! Place your votes in this thread. If you see any vote out of place, holler at us and we will look into it. | ||
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darthfoley
United States8004 Posts
On November 03 2016 07:17 Tictock wrote: Yea I kinda liked that you asked her about her read on marg. Still it's an odd switch in thinking to go from "Calix is scum!" to "Calix is town, and this dude is buddying her, so is scum" Also, you kinda lost your chance to change my interpretation by telling me to read your filter. Don't think I like this post; you kinda like something he did, then called it an odd switch, which is less than a scum read, then told him that his mind cant be changed?? This post, in three lines, is sending very mixed signals about his read on Foreman | ||
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darthfoley
United States8004 Posts
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ExO_
United States2316 Posts
I jumped on to Calix initially and continued to pressure him(her?) long after I thought she was scum. I do think the way he entered the thread was dumb and likely to inflame me. But his responses afterwards seemed very much from a towny perspective. I continued the pressure to see who would jump on the bandwagon with me in an attempt to press low hanging fruit. I'll look at it tomorrow, but NeverUnlucky/foreman are both going to be the first people I look at. | ||
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Calix
3379 Posts
With regards to mahrgell, I'm starting to get a lean-town read on him. This is mainly because his responses have themes of "I'm approaching XYZ from both perspectives" and "I'm trying to encourage a positive town atmosphere". Is this something that scum can do? Sure. He could be thread-policing, but I don't see how this actually furthers a scum agenda in his case. Scum want chaos, not an orderly atmosphere. The only thing that he's done that can be read in that light is his cases (due to their quality) but if he's been making cases to sow doubt then he's been doing a piss-poor job of making that happen. Going back to the stances he has taken, I feel like he has been very persistent with this line of reasoning so far (even if his reasoning is strange/ unfocused) and even though I find him hard to understand at times, there's some consistency in the logic that he uses. All that said, I'll reread his filter with these points in mind to see if he contradicts my view of him anywhere/ check the intent behind his cases. On November 03 2016 15:11 ExO_ wrote: I'm tired. I just got home. I don't feel like reading through the read. But I'll tell you my thoughts in a nutshell from the point I left. I jumped on to Calix initially and continued to pressure him(her?) long after I thought she was scum. I do think the way he entered the thread was dumb and likely to inflame me. But his responses afterwards seemed very much from a towny perspective. I continued the pressure to see who would jump on the bandwagon with me in an attempt to press low hanging fruit. I'll look at it tomorrow, but NeverUnlucky/foreman are both going to be the first people I look at. If you must know, I am of the female persuasion but don't sweat it if you call me a 'he'. Question. When exactly did you 'stop thinking [I] was scum'? How were my responses townie? I'd like to know. Your lack of elaboration here + thread consensus that I am town = suspicions that you are following thread sentiment with your shift in how you read me. Your argument was full of holes which have already been pointed out, however. Few scum would hop onto my wagon using your reasoning. (As a matter of fact, nobody did. Foreman claimed that I was 'tryhard' while NU had that atrocious meta-vote) | ||
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Calix
3379 Posts
On November 03 2016 04:09 mahrgell wrote: Yes, this is pretty much my 3). I fully agree with you here. Also he started voting Exo. Now of course he will most likely tell us, that he pregame announced he was PL'ing gifs. But that is just the same category as the usual "totally busy, won't post" pregame crap... Nice excuse if you roll mafia, and who cares if you don't do it and roll town. From a townie I would expect a calmer attitude instead of throwing votes on someone who posted one textpost and one gif. He could have easily stayed on Exo and push that lynch, if there is some movement. Or he could stay there, if he doesn't want to vote a scumbuddy... Or he could just switch as easy.... Overall... Not liking it. But let's wait for NU to explain himself. Slight inconsistency with his reasoning here. He says in his earlier post (bolded part of my first quote) that "NU could have heated up the fire without it looking much worse than his usual play". This shows that he is aware that NU's town play is to be antagonistic and start fires. Here he says that "I would expect a calmer attitude from a townie" when referring to NU. This is a more general blanket statement about town play in general and it's strange to use it here when he's demonstrated an awareness of what town!NU plays like. I'm not entirely sure how these two sentences work together as a result. (both sentences were made in a similar context) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- As for his cases, I won't ramble too much here. I am aware that mahrgell has already addressed some of my concerns with them so I don't want him to repeat himself. - He uses 'anti-town' behaviour a lot when presenting his reasoning. It's Day 1 so this is understandable but I am noting it regardless in case it continues to be a theme. - Lack of conclusions continues to prevail. - He makes some semi-decent points...but then he concludes that it's anti-town instead of scummy behaviour. The third point is the most worrying aspect of the cases in my opinion. The way he frames his points makes it sound like he would policy-lynch Foreman/ NU but he claims to scum-read them and I just don't see that in how he refers to them. Some more in-depth thoughts on the cases below: Foreman: + Show Spoiler [Quote] + On November 03 2016 06:49 mahrgell wrote: How many you need? You obviously ignored all my posts about yourself. But let's summarize and update: Looking at your entire post history, I try to figure out how you managed to come to the conclusion you have. If you have no information about the game, you should have seen the same as me. And yet somehow you managed to take another turn at pretty much every point in the game. So far all your actions have been about the opposite of what I would expect from someone who saw the same as I did, with the same information I have. (none). 1) you see the Calix vs Exo_ interaction and for weird reasons tunnel down on Calix. Was she(it seems like Calix is a she?) pushing Exo? I don't think so. If she was, I agree it was pointless, but well... Day1. You were sure she was pushing Exo. Okay... Happy tunneling. 2) so you chase after people for having the antitown-proscum conversation, just to push that conversation further. If it was in your interest to remove this discussion from the thread to steer the game in a more town friendly direction, you should probably not try to last word in that conversation. 3) Next Calix asks you about NU. Instead of answering, you refuse to answer at all, because you consider Calix scum. I believe enough people pointed out at this point that this is pretty anti-town. Considering you being worried about the town atmosphere before, this is rather ironic. 4) I ask you about NU too. You dismiss it as parroting. Besides the fact that I consider it not parroting, but admit, that my critique on NU was very similar to Calix (earlier, not her latest) posts, let's for a moment assume it was parroting. At this point you claimed to scumlean Calix, but didn't say anything about me. If I were a townie, and see someone else parrot a person I consider scum... I for sure as hell would do my best to get this person to stop sheeping a scummie. Either you turn on me right away, or you try to get me away from her. Instead you just dismissed me. If I was sheeping Calix and you considered her scum, you willingly gave her an additional vote. 5) Your general contribution to this thread has never been in the interest of improving the atmosphere. In none of the mentioned points have you ever tried for a constructive conversation. And your latest responses to NU weren't better either. Not sure if it was in this thread or in the other one, but when you asked about the TL meta someone (NU?) answered: "Be wrong and a dick about it" This is exactly what I see you doing here. I guess you earned it ##Vote Foreman Anything in green would be the parts I liked. I dislike the red sections because they are examples of the "pointing out weird behaviour but providing town explanations for them...in the same post that you vote for that player" pattern. (although I can see some town motivation for this, I'm going to wait until mahrgell posts more before I reveal what that is) NeverUnlucky: + Show Spoiler [Quote] + On November 03 2016 07:26 mahrgell wrote: Well... from my perspective so far my topscum are: Foreman (as explained, and I will stay on him and hope to get this wagon rolling) NU Why NU? I can already see people digging out the post where I waffled away from him. Goodwill is probably not a good town trait. But let me explain my thought: I initially agreed with Calix that he implied an opinion on Calix she didn't post before. This has been discussed enough. Nontheless I accepted his explanation about it, keeping the minor point against him noted. Him trying to create a positive atmosphere is something I value highly. Now Calix seemed to go completely overboard in tunnel mode, and I honestly cried on the inside about her points. But it were NU's answers who were supposed to destroy Calix points, which brought me back onto him. First he mentioned how he loves to powerwolf, winning 1v7 etc... Well... So basically his explanation for his initial misstep was devalued by that. Assuming he tries to balance his towngame against his mafiagame, not yet conclusive. But the doubt was increasing. Next was his vote on Calix. Seriously, he had absolutely no case here. Now you may tell me again, NU loves frustration voting. Okay. But I consider it a bad trait. NU, stop it or you will probably never get towncred with me. This isn't really advancing the game. If you consider Calix to spout nonsense, either make a proper case or ignore her and talk about what you have noticed with others. And last was this post: Really? A townie speculating about another player being blue or red? I mean, is this EVER smart? Mafia knows what color the guy is, and if he isn't red, you probably helped them in case they didn't notice. So by now, I can see myself supporting a NU wagon too. As said earlier, I still want Foreman gone first... But if this wagon does not play out and deadline was close, I would jump on a NU wagon too. There's no green here. I have decided that I do not like this post. Opening is highly relevant in this post because it's pretty bad. As said earlier, he sounds like he's policy-lynching NU/ Foreman yet he claims that they are his top scum-reads. Secondly, his use of refutation via the "I can already see people digging out the post where I waffled away from him line" shows a remarkable level of self-awareness about what he's posted. (and more alarmingly, a level of self-consciousness in how consistent he appears to everyone else) Second paragraph has already been flagged up but I'm doing it again as it ties back to a theme of "pointing out suspicious behaviour but providing an explanation where the player is acting in an anti-town manner". | ||
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Calix
3379 Posts
TT has already made it clear that he considers mahrgell 'a top town' and Foreman mafia while NU scum-reads mahrgell. Not so sure on his Foreman read although I'm inferring it's a town-read so he's welcome to elaborate there if I'm wrong. Anyway, this: ##vote mahrgell | ||
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