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LightningStrike:On December 01 2015 12:18 LightningStrike wrote:
DYH seems townlean he actually tried to comment on stuff that is relevant to the game. Specifically, what comments did he make that were relevant to the game, and why do they make him town?
Damdred: (and PLEASE, no one else answer this, don't be stupid...):
I'm sorry, I know you don't want to talk about this, but it's driving me insane.
Hypothetical scenario 1: Trfel makes a post an hour into a mafia game casting suspicions on Joe for not having posted.
Hypothetical scenario 2: Trfel makes a post an hour into a mafia game casting suspicions on Bob for not having posted. Bob said before the game that he would not be present for the first few hours of the game.
What difference do you see between these two scenarios?
Palmar seems like obvious town. There's one thing I hope to check eventually, though.
I kind of want to lynch The Shining, but that seems like a very bad idea right now. He's put in a bunch of effort (regardless of alignment) on a busy day for him. Most of the problems that I have with his posts are wording, tone, and a bit of consistency, which aren't the most reliable. I do feel that his posting somewhat fits mafia motivation, but I'm nowhere near confident enough to be happy lynching him now. I feel that The Shining's alignment will become very clear with a bit more time.
I still think that Damdred is mafia, but I remembered that the past several times I've played with Damdred (both town) I've always thought he was mafia  I'm guessing that I have some preconceived notions for what I expect Damdred to do, and whenever he doesn't behave exactly as I would expect him to, I think he's mafia. And it seems to be very hard for me to separate this from mafia motivations...
Did anyone else find Damdred's townread of The Shining a bit off? Palmar commented on why the third point is invalid, which I completely agree with.
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On December 01 2015 18:41 Rels wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2015 18:16 Trfel wrote:
I kind of want to lynch The Shining, but that seems like a very bad idea right now. He's put in a bunch of effort (regardless of alignment) on a busy day for him. Most of the problems that I have with his posts are wording, tone, and a bit of consistency, which aren't the most reliable. I do feel that his posting somewhat fits mafia motivation, but I'm nowhere near confident enough to be happy lynching him now. I feel that The Shining's alignment will become very clear with a bit more time. 1 - this is sooooo non commital. 2 - we're right on the period Shining has no internet. So I have no idea what additionnal info you will have when he AFK for 24 hours. What part of the "not lynching The Shining" part did you miss?
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Fidei86, did you see the WIFOM that MoosyDoosy was using before the game?
Given how aware he is of his own meta, and the events of last game (a lengthy discussion about whether MoosyDoosy would intentionally be useless as mafia to trick everyone using his meta), are you still happy with this read?
And if this is a read that you are happy with it now, imagine that this continues for another day or two. Why would you then need to lynch MoosyDoosy? Why would this make your townread invalid?
Anyway, I really need to go to bed. Good night.
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On December 02 2015 00:16 Damdred wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2015 18:16 Trfel wrote:LightningStrike:On December 01 2015 12:18 LightningStrike wrote:
DYH seems townlean he actually tried to comment on stuff that is relevant to the game. Specifically, what comments did he make that were relevant to the game, and why do they make him town? Damdred: (and PLEASE, no one else answer this, don't be stupid...):I'm sorry, I know you don't want to talk about this, but it's driving me insane. Hypothetical scenario 1: Trfel makes a post an hour into a mafia game casting suspicions on Joe for not having posted. Hypothetical scenario 2: Trfel makes a post an hour into a mafia game casting suspicions on Bob for not having posted. Bob said before the game that he would not be present for the first few hours of the game. What difference do you see between these two scenarios?
Palmar seems like obvious town. There's one thing I hope to check eventually, though. I kind of want to lynch The Shining, but that seems like a very bad idea right now. He's put in a bunch of effort (regardless of alignment) on a busy day for him. Most of the problems that I have with his posts are wording, tone, and a bit of consistency, which aren't the most reliable. I do feel that his posting somewhat fits mafia motivation, but I'm nowhere near confident enough to be happy lynching him now. I feel that The Shining's alignment will become very clear with a bit more time. I still think that Damdred is mafia, but I remembered that the past several times I've played with Damdred (both town) I've always thought he was mafia I'm guessing that I have some preconceived notions for what I expect Damdred to do, and whenever he doesn't behave exactly as I would expect him to, I think he's mafia. And it seems to be very hard for me to separate this from mafia motivations... Did anyone else find Damdred's townread of The Shining a bit off? Palmar commented on why the third point is invalid, which I completely agree with. Of course I see a difference, but what was my play? I don't see a difference. What difference do you see between them (with regards to my alignment)?
+ Show Spoiler [Explanation] +Two more hypothetical scenarios...
Hypothetical scenario A: Trfel knew that Bob made the pre-game post about not being there. What makes mafia!Trfel more likely to scumread Bob than town!Trfel?
Hypothetical scenario B: Trfel didn't know that Bob made the pre-game post about not being there. Why is it any different that Trfel posted suspicions of Bob instead of any of the other players who hadn't posted yet and had no pre-game excuse? Trfel didn't know the difference at the time, he could have posted about any of them.
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On December 01 2015 18:50 Rels wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2015 18:44 Trfel wrote:On December 01 2015 18:41 Rels wrote:On December 01 2015 18:16 Trfel wrote:
I kind of want to lynch The Shining, but that seems like a very bad idea right now. He's put in a bunch of effort (regardless of alignment) on a busy day for him. Most of the problems that I have with his posts are wording, tone, and a bit of consistency, which aren't the most reliable. I do feel that his posting somewhat fits mafia motivation, but I'm nowhere near confident enough to be happy lynching him now. I feel that The Shining's alignment will become very clear with a bit more time. 1 - this is sooooo non commital. 2 - we're right on the period Shining has no internet. So I have no idea what additionnal info you will have when he AFK for 24 hours. What part of the "not lynching The Shining" part did you miss? I thought I read "I kind of want to lynch The Shining" somewhere in that post. This part about Shining reads to me as "I'm OK lynching Shining but I'll need someone to convince me." Under normal circumstances, I'd be suspicious of The Shining here and would be maybe willing to lynch him Day 1. However, since The Shining probably won't be able to play much today, and wasn't 100% there yesterday, I think that giving him a Day 1 pass is probably best.
Sorry that wasn't clear in my initial posts.
Is anyone else kind of suspicious of Rels? The way that he has been throwing suspicions at everyone feels like he's trying to keep his options open to lynch anyone he chooses. I don't recall him posting a single townread (which isn't that important), but the way he's been pressuring so many people without follow through or without a serious push seem so strange. The vote on DoYouHas feels extremely opportunistic, as well.
I was really hoping that DoYouHas wouldn't be brought up for a while, I wanted to see what he did if he wasn't bothered. I remember checking the exact same thing that Rels mentioned earlier, and I'm not entirely on board, but I'll let DoYouHas speak for himself.
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On December 02 2015 01:32 Rels wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2015 01:27 Trfel wrote:On December 01 2015 18:50 Rels wrote:On December 01 2015 18:44 Trfel wrote:On December 01 2015 18:41 Rels wrote:On December 01 2015 18:16 Trfel wrote:
I kind of want to lynch The Shining, but that seems like a very bad idea right now. He's put in a bunch of effort (regardless of alignment) on a busy day for him. Most of the problems that I have with his posts are wording, tone, and a bit of consistency, which aren't the most reliable. I do feel that his posting somewhat fits mafia motivation, but I'm nowhere near confident enough to be happy lynching him now. I feel that The Shining's alignment will become very clear with a bit more time. 1 - this is sooooo non commital. 2 - we're right on the period Shining has no internet. So I have no idea what additionnal info you will have when he AFK for 24 hours. What part of the "not lynching The Shining" part did you miss? I thought I read "I kind of want to lynch The Shining" somewhere in that post. This part about Shining reads to me as "I'm OK lynching Shining but I'll need someone to convince me." Under normal circumstances, I'd be suspicious of The Shining here and would be maybe willing to lynch him Day 1. However, since The Shining probably won't be able to play much today, and wasn't 100% there yesterday, I think that giving him a Day 1 pass is probably best. Sorry that wasn't clear in my initial posts.
Is anyone else kind of suspicious of Rels? The way that he has been throwing suspicions at everyone feels like he's trying to keep his options open to lynch anyone he chooses. I don't recall him posting a single townread (which isn't that important), but the way he's been pressuring so many people without follow through or without a serious push seem so strange. The vote on DoYouHas feels extremely opportunistic, as well. I was really hoping that DoYouHas wouldn't be brought up for a while, I wanted to see what he did if he wasn't bothered. I remember checking the exact same thing that Rels mentioned earlier, and I'm not entirely on board, but I'll let DoYouHas speak for himself. Yep I'm suspicious of too many people. I would lynch Damdred or DYH right now; fidei is weird; HTS' post on LS makes a lot of sense. Onegu and kush are useless. You know, I take back my suspicion. Under normal circumstances it would be valid, but given the circumstances I'm kind of in the same place. The big thing is the lack of follow through, then, and that's very subjective; I'll look again later.
By saying that Half the Sky's post on LightningStrike makes sense, are you saying that you think that LightningStrike is scum, or Half the Sky is town, or both?
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On December 02 2015 01:36 LightningStrike wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2015 01:34 Rels wrote:On December 02 2015 01:28 LightningStrike wrote:On December 02 2015 01:23 Rels wrote:On December 02 2015 01:11 LightningStrike wrote:
Just got to college campus and took care of stuff and about Palmar: It's meta read that I have on him because he did similar stuff to me in Metal Mini which you observed and I do find Shining town for now although he did show huge emotions as scum last game but I giving him a benefit of a doubt. Mainly Shining's content seems better ths game than his last game when he was scum vs me. Any idea on what could be scum ? I told you earlier that I think Tfrel is scum mainly his stuff about me..... His "stuff about you" was a trap that he didn't believe in. I don't think Trfel has posted a read on you. Does knowing that make you re evaluate ? Hmm maybe but I remember him attacking Geript in Student V for imposing a limit of how many posts he would make per phase and e was scum there so(shrugs). Why do you think that my attack on geript in that game is relevant to my alignment this game?
Sorry, I just really don't see the connection.
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Side note, I'd really appreciate it if Damdred and MoosyDoosy would elaborate on their unspecified townreads.
I don't have many town reads this game at all, and I'm wondering why we see things so differently. It could very well be that I'm being stupid, in which case I'd like to why, so I can be a little less stupid.
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On December 02 2015 01:45 LightningStrike wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2015 01:37 Trfel wrote:On December 02 2015 01:36 LightningStrike wrote:On December 02 2015 01:34 Rels wrote:On December 02 2015 01:28 LightningStrike wrote:On December 02 2015 01:23 Rels wrote:On December 02 2015 01:11 LightningStrike wrote:
Just got to college campus and took care of stuff and about Palmar: It's meta read that I have on him because he did similar stuff to me in Metal Mini which you observed and I do find Shining town for now although he did show huge emotions as scum last game but I giving him a benefit of a doubt. Mainly Shining's content seems better ths game than his last game when he was scum vs me. Any idea on what could be scum ? I told you earlier that I think Tfrel is scum mainly his stuff about me..... His "stuff about you" was a trap that he didn't believe in. I don't think Trfel has posted a read on you. Does knowing that make you re evaluate ? Hmm maybe but I remember him attacking Geript in Student V for imposing a limit of how many posts he would make per phase and e was scum there so(shrugs). Why do you think that my attack on geript in that game is relevant to my alignment this game? Sorry, I just really don't see the connection. Because it seemed like similar manner on what you did to me this game..... Anyways you got any scum reads so far? Here you go.
I don't have time to dive into anything in depth, so I'm talking to the people who are here.
LightningStrike, why didn't you respond to this post?
I must say that pending an answer to the above question, I kind of think that LightningStrike is town.
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I realized that DoYouHas' activity fits a mafia motivation fairly strongly, assuming that Damdred is town. And still fits somewhat if Damdred is mafia.
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On December 02 2015 02:28 Damdred wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2015 02:24 Trfel wrote:
I realized that DoYouHas' activity fits a mafia motivation fairly strongly, assuming that Damdred is town. And still fits somewhat if Damdred is mafia. this is bad and you should know why I think it's great. Please explain?
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Off to class for a while.
Town lean on disformation. Would really appreciate answers from LightningStrike and Damdred, questions asked previously.
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I don't know how to play this game with Damdred. He's not scumreading me, that I can tell, but he's absolutely refusing to work with me.
The sad thing is that I think Damdred is capable of doing this as town. However, he was actually quite reasonable with me last game, where I was playing extremely obnoxiously. I don't know why he would be willing to work with me there and not here if he's town.
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Also, Half the Sky, about the potential "TMI" thing with kushm4sta...
It's not possibly TMI. The mafia team cannot know if there is a vigilante in the setup or not at this time.
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On December 02 2015 04:27 Half the Sky wrote:
Regarding Rels, I recall him being nitpicky from his town games but nothing about the nitpicking jumps out as scumlike. Trfel why do you think he's being opportunistic with DYH? (It was based off a read progression and not activity.)
I didn't mean to criticize Rels for being nitpicky, that doesn't really describe his play. I had two reasons to suspect Rels:
1. I didn't see a direction from his posting
2. He was suspicious of a ton of people with few/no townreads
I didn't review his filter before I said this, though. Right when I said this, Rels made a post clarifying his stance. If Rels' filter shows a clear and natural progression that results in these scumreads, and I can see a sensible direction, then I'm fine with Rels for now. That should be fairly easy to check, I'll do so this evening.
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On December 02 2015 06:11 Palmar wrote:
This is a shitty read, but it might actually be brilliant.
Shining said he'd leave yesterday when arguing with me, yet he kept coming back to the thread. If he is mafia he has already realized I'm an obnoxious bastard who pushes shit without mercy. He created an excuse for himself to leave the thread and then didn't use it.
That drive to make me understand that I'm being dumb as shit is actually kinda townie. When I think about it I definitely don't want to lynch Shining today. I note that this is very similar to what Damdred was saying earlier. And Palmar said it was stupid then.
Not a new realization at all, Palmar 
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On December 02 2015 08:23 Damdred wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2015 06:27 Trfel wrote:
I don't know how to play this game with Damdred. He's not scumreading me, that I can tell, but he's absolutely refusing to work with me.
The sad thing is that I think Damdred is capable of doing this as town. However, he was actually quite reasonable with me last game, where I was playing extremely obnoxiously. I don't know why he would be willing to work with me there and not here if he's town. Not exactly sure how I'm refusing to work with anyone when I've answered everything asked of me to carrying degrees. So technically this statement is correct if you include zero as an acceptable degree for an answer, or you're saying that I don't exist.
I don't know what you expect me to do. This is intolerable.
The worst part is that you're probably town and just this obnoxious.
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Like, seriously.
I quit until Damdred is dead, however that happens.
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@Damdred:On December 02 2015 01:17 Trfel wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2015 00:16 Damdred wrote:On December 01 2015 18:16 Trfel wrote:LightningStrike:On December 01 2015 12:18 LightningStrike wrote:
DYH seems townlean he actually tried to comment on stuff that is relevant to the game. Specifically, what comments did he make that were relevant to the game, and why do they make him town? Damdred: (and PLEASE, no one else answer this, don't be stupid...):I'm sorry, I know you don't want to talk about this, but it's driving me insane. Hypothetical scenario 1: Trfel makes a post an hour into a mafia game casting suspicions on Joe for not having posted. Hypothetical scenario 2: Trfel makes a post an hour into a mafia game casting suspicions on Bob for not having posted. Bob said before the game that he would not be present for the first few hours of the game. What difference do you see between these two scenarios?
Palmar seems like obvious town. There's one thing I hope to check eventually, though. I kind of want to lynch The Shining, but that seems like a very bad idea right now. He's put in a bunch of effort (regardless of alignment) on a busy day for him. Most of the problems that I have with his posts are wording, tone, and a bit of consistency, which aren't the most reliable. I do feel that his posting somewhat fits mafia motivation, but I'm nowhere near confident enough to be happy lynching him now. I feel that The Shining's alignment will become very clear with a bit more time. I still think that Damdred is mafia, but I remembered that the past several times I've played with Damdred (both town) I've always thought he was mafia I'm guessing that I have some preconceived notions for what I expect Damdred to do, and whenever he doesn't behave exactly as I would expect him to, I think he's mafia. And it seems to be very hard for me to separate this from mafia motivations... Did anyone else find Damdred's townread of The Shining a bit off? Palmar commented on why the third point is invalid, which I completely agree with. Of course I see a difference, but what was my play? I don't see a difference. What difference do you see between them (with regards to my alignment)? + Show Spoiler [Explanation] +Two more hypothetical scenarios...
Hypothetical scenario A: Trfel knew that Bob made the pre-game post about not being there. What makes mafia!Trfel more likely to scumread Bob than town!Trfel?
Hypothetical scenario B: Trfel didn't know that Bob made the pre-game post about not being there. Why is it any different that Trfel posted suspicions of Bob instead of any of the other players who hadn't posted yet and had no pre-game excuse? Trfel didn't know the difference at the time, he could have posted about any of them. The question elaborates on a nested quote. To clarify:
I am NOT saying that if there is indeed a logical gap here, that you are scum 100%. I personally do not understand the logic in one of your early posts, and I've tried to explain that. Rels also questioned the same thing. I do not think that logical failures make someone 100% mafia, but if I can better understand the thought process used when the post was constructed, I can better understand the follow up and the thought process/mindset behind the series of posts.
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On December 03 2015 00:05 Rels wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2015 01:52 Trfel wrote:On December 02 2015 01:45 LightningStrike wrote:On December 02 2015 01:37 Trfel wrote:On December 02 2015 01:36 LightningStrike wrote:On December 02 2015 01:34 Rels wrote:On December 02 2015 01:28 LightningStrike wrote:On December 02 2015 01:23 Rels wrote:On December 02 2015 01:11 LightningStrike wrote:
Just got to college campus and took care of stuff and about Palmar: It's meta read that I have on him because he did similar stuff to me in Metal Mini which you observed and I do find Shining town for now although he did show huge emotions as scum last game but I giving him a benefit of a doubt. Mainly Shining's content seems better ths game than his last game when he was scum vs me. Any idea on what could be scum ? I told you earlier that I think Tfrel is scum mainly his stuff about me..... His "stuff about you" was a trap that he didn't believe in. I don't think Trfel has posted a read on you. Does knowing that make you re evaluate ? Hmm maybe but I remember him attacking Geript in Student V for imposing a limit of how many posts he would make per phase and e was scum there so(shrugs). Why do you think that my attack on geript in that game is relevant to my alignment this game? Sorry, I just really don't see the connection. Because it seemed like similar manner on what you did to me this game..... Anyways you got any scum reads so far? Here you go. I don't have time to dive into anything in depth, so I'm talking to the people who are here. LightningStrike, why didn't you respond to this post? I must say that pending an answer to the above question, I kind of think that LightningStrike is town. Can you expand ? It's one of those reads I don't know how to explain.
I think I asked LightningStrike two very pointed questions, where there were a lot of answers he could have said that would be "wrong". And he answered both of them correctly. Not only that, but he had a really relaxed tone when doing so.On December 01 2015 20:02 LightningStrike wrote:
He wasn't really afraid to post his thoughts on the stuff when he was around and I know it's limited content but still when he was around he did try to be involved a little bit. I might be a huge sucker for people. Like here, when I asked him about his read on DoYouHas. I guess this doesn't objectively say much, but I like it anyway.
The more important thing is that I feel that the way that LightningStrike's suspicion on me changed over the course of the game (mostly the early parts) has been really natural. He seemed genuinely frustrated, and I could see how that frustration led him to push me. The amount that he pushed me felt like more than scum would push, knowing that it's wrong and having no support, and it matched the words he was saying.
I'm not extremely confident on LightningStrike being town, and it's hard to explain, but I don't want to lynch him.
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EPT
