EPTgumshoe I really think you're town so I need your vote on the GB wagon. Did you check out the meta stuff I provided in my case? I don't see how you can characterize GB as hot-headed this game when he hasn't done much of anything and his defense of Slam was basically nothing at all.
[M][N] Mini Mafia: The (kinda) Vanilla Experience - Page 6
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gumshoe I really think you're town so I need your vote on the GB wagon. Did you check out the meta stuff I provided in my case? I don't see how you can characterize GB as hot-headed this game when he hasn't done much of anything and his defense of Slam was basically nothing at all. | ||
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On October 26 2015 06:34 gumshoe wrote: You assume Gb is bieng totally level headed / : as a scum player, I personally feel tremendous fear to do things that directly contribute to my death or the death of my teamates. We can deduce that Gb was emotional, which is not impossible to be as scum (especially when your actually in a losing position, as opposed to where Rayn was) off his outburst in thread. When the Slam wagon switched, unless Gb is a tremedous actor immense releif would have rolled over him. To then have right away have the peace of mind to recognize your own powerlessness and do something that directly hurts your cause is something I do not think scum Gb could accomplish on his own, given his mental state, and I doubt he would be coached to do by his team. That and I read him as a fuck up townie, not a desperate scummer / : but thats more a feel thing that comes from lots of games of bieng a fuck up townie than anything else, so its harder to elaborate on. You're kind of telling a story here, and it's possible this story is actually true if you assume that GB is a very very emotional player and was very very scared by the possibility of the wagon being directed back to him and that he would just be unable to say anything to defend Slam for fear of being lynched. The simpler alternative is that GB just threw out a statement about Slam without worrying about it, knowing that it would have zero effect on the wagon on Slam and even less effect on the wagon on him. | ||
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On October 26 2015 08:08 GlowingBear wrote: This would be true if I didn't repeatedly say Slam is a guy that can be better read on later days. I'm sure that I said it at least once in my list post. And I said that also in a game where I played with slam. The most recent one. I forgot the name. You mean this from your list post? This is the only think I can find. Slam (although people say slam is unreadable, I usually can read him better on later days so I don't really want to think about him on day1) I don't really think that would convince people to abandon the Slam wagon and go back on you either. | ||
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On October 26 2015 08:11 Xatalos wrote: After some consideration, I revoted for Onegu. Read this again: - Onegu: gave a high townread for rayn, voted for him over his nullread at deadline when the lynch was still completely undecided.... just this alone I think is impossible for town, he did make an "RNG sheep" vote in a previous game but I just can't accept he would choose to vote for his (supposed) highest townread based on some meta-joke... it just shows that he has zero interest towards solving the game or doing anything... and he has refused to answer several questions from different players that probed into his nonsensical arguments over the game He simply doesn't care about catching scum, at all. And he's contradicting his own reads and offering messed up arguments that he can't answer for when probed. LYNCH ONEGU! I think I'd like to give rayn and GB another day, perhaps. yamato seems like a fine lynch too. I definitely don't disagree with anything you've said here and I am in favor of an Onegu lynch. Sadly, "not caring about catching scum" doesn't only apply to him this game, it easily applies to GB, Hopeless, yamato at least. The one point "in favor" of him compared to GB in my opinion is that he usually (to my knowledge, haven't checked very much) plays like this, with extreme low effort. There's still some time in the day though so we can see what happens, it's possible I decide that Onegu is a better lynch later depending on how things go. Having GB and Onegu as the wagons is excellent though. | ||
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On October 26 2015 08:35 gumshoe wrote: The choice should definitely be Yamato and Onegu, but the difference between them was best put by Marv. people expect things of Yamato, whereas this game is par for the course with Onegu / : both are fine lynches but the edge should definitely go to the guy who if scum, was playing based off a scum agenda and was actually trying somewhat. LOL that quote was originally about GB and Onegu. Thanks for helping my case  And is it actually true that "people expect things of yamato"? I was under the impression that he's been mislynched a fair few times for lurking/doing nothing as town too. | ||
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On October 26 2015 08:37 Xatalos wrote: Like, I went to GB's filter thinking "let's see if there's anything scummy I missed", came out of it thinking "there are scummy traits and then bits and pieces of towny moments". Scum? Could well be. Town? It's possible as well. I don't think it's a sure case. Onegu/yamato seem safer, and I'd perhaps put even rayn above GB.... Hmm. I think the meta points are much stronger than any bits of lightly town moments that can be found in his filter. Honestly after playing as mafia in a few games I feel like making posts that sound vaguely townie as mafia isn't that hard. I guess that depends on what kind of stuff specifically you're talking about though. | ||
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Honestly I'm not that convinced on yamato at all. He's like 90% a lurker lynch for me. I don't think he's done anything I found particularly scummy (other than not posting a lot) so I feel like it's a coinflip compared to GB/Onegu. | ||
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On October 26 2015 08:57 Xatalos wrote: Mainly referring to his meta defense of me, genuine-feeling rant about being voted for and going after rayn instead of Slam in that situation.... I guess none of those are really impossible from scum, it's just that each thing felt more likely to come from town. I love calling people town for good reasons as mafia lol, it makes me feel honest because I don't have to lie to everyone about what I think for once. Rant thing, okay. What do you mean by going after rayn instead of Slam? This post where he votes rayn? On October 24 2015 04:07 GlowingBear wrote: I don't want to lynch chromatically. Especially now that Vivax is voting him. And I've been putting thoughts on Rayn. His flip one is bad. He said it was very unlikely I was scum and that I was very level headed with my read in Vivax. Then Vivax said something about me scum reading him before asking questions, and Rayn agreed and called me scum over the same posts he called me "very unlikely to be mafia". It doesn't make sense. I'm voting rayn | ||
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I think you misread/misinterpreted some quotes in that first yamato case. He says that he disagrees with a townread on Slam, then that he doesn't have a solid read on Slam, and then that he's not opposed to killing Slam and gives some reasoning before voting him. Those really aren't inconsistent with each other at all. As for yamato and GB being together, it doesn't really matter right now. Maybe they can be, maybe they can't, but it's no use thinking about it until one of them flips mafia. I think GB is much more likely to flip mafia, so he's the one I'm going after. | ||
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On October 26 2015 09:04 Xatalos wrote: Ah yeah, I mean, he went directly against rayn (who was losing steam and a tougher opponent than Slam) instead of just voting for Slam or going AFK or something. In the worst case, that could have led to him being lynched... If marv jumped on that vote switch etc. I think you're talking about when him and rayn were kind of yelling at each other? Like he could have voted for Slam or gone AFK at that point, but doing that makes him look uninterested in the lynch/doesn't give him something to post about. Whereas if he just argues with rayn for a little bit, he looks active and opinionated just for yelling at rayn for reading him wrong. | ||
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On October 26 2015 09:24 gumshoe wrote: In between these two statements, a list is proposed to him, he says one player on it he wouldn't call scum, based off his prior refusal to town read slam, we can deduce hes other bieng misleading, or hes telling us that hes ok with slam bieng scum. I mean he literally explains "I disagree on ritoky and I don't have a solid read on any of BH, slam, or Onegu" right? The reasoning he provides for Slam bieng scum completely parrots Marvs reasoning (that Slam wouldn't react that way) Slam later confirms that he did find slam scummy If Yamato didnt think slam was scummy, dont you think he would say that? As opposed to this shit? He also says nothings changed -_- like Chrom wtf? how do you want me to fucking take this post? This is mafia, not a simulator. This is something I think you're misreading, I assume the underlined part in the nested quote is the intended reading of that: On October 24 2015 03:53 yamato77 wrote: you bore me what do you think about them? going back now and explaining why I thought those things at that time is pointless not much has changed As for them bieng together. Of course it matters -_- if Yamato flips scum then Gb is 100 percent town. If they are buds, why would Yamato redirect godamm fucking Marv onto Gb. Getting Marv to go after Gb is one of the surest ways to get Gb killed. It's like throwing A FUCKING NUKE AT SOMEONE. and it almost results in Gb's death -_-. Gb never says much about Yamato, if Gb flips green or red it says absoloutley nothing about Yamatos alignment. But if Yamato flips scum? We can totally write off gb do you honestly not see that? cmon Chrom T_T. So please please please vote Yamato, if he flips green I will sheep whatever lynch you want for the rest of the game. Just houmer me today, will yah? I am a firm believer in the fact that the best lynch is always the one that is most likely to flip mafia, and I think that's GB over yamato at this point. Lynching for information like this is nearly always a really bad idea. And after we get a mafia flip, there will be lots of information to analyze regardless of who it is. GB's flip might not say much about yamato's alignment (haven't really thought about it), but it would definitely give information on a bunch of other people. But that's something to worry about once we have a mafia flip, which is priority number one. This post kind of turned out to be a semi-yamato defense which I don't want to do any more of, because I think it's better if yamato himself explains what he was thinking in response to your case. So keep pursuing him if you think he has the objectively best chance to flip mafia! Hopefully he'll come back and explain his thought process to you and then we'll all have a better idea of his alignment. | ||
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I just don't have a problem with his Slam read. I don't really want to talk about it any more though because I think that's something he should explain more, but it's not a point against him in my book. Comparing my push on GB to GB's push on Vivax is just silly. I have, in my opinion, a rock solid case that's supported by hard evidence. That's nothing like the "case" on Vivax. I think you are reading too much into associations. You do not know 100% that GB is town if yamato is mafia, and that's based on yamato being mafia anyway, which is what we should be focusing on! Possible association reads that happen based on a flip (which there will almost certainly be some of regardless of who we're lynching) should not affect the central objective, which is lynching mafia. Say we lynch GB and he flips mafia-- now we can go into his filter and get association reads from the people he interacted with. I have not developed any stigma against meta at all. In fact, meta is a central point of my case against GB. I do have a problem with unflipped associations, because they're very often a bad idea. Basically, yamato might flip scum. But I do not think he's the best lynch today compared to GB and Onegu. So we can agree to disagree, and I'll push my reads while you push yours. | ||
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Xatalos, I'd be interested to hear what convinced you to switch from Onegu to yamato. | ||
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In my case, I made the clear point that his activity in this game was more similar to his activity as mafia than as town. I also showed how the way he pushed his Vivax read is not the same as how he pushes cases as town (providing quotes from other games). The caps lock post you quoted as an example of passion is not relevant, because that post is just GB yelling at rayn for something, not pushing a read passionately like he does as town. I was pretty impressed at how many insults and condescending phrases you worked into that post though, given that I've been nice to you about your yamato posts I disagree with! | ||
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 It's all good gumshoe.The point about activity isn't really about whether he's "active" or "inactive" according to our standards. It's just that, from a purely statistical basis, his activity level is much closer to his mafia activity than his town activity. So even if 4 pages is a lot for me or you, it's way less than town GB usually has and about the same as mafia GB. Honestly 3 games from each side is not that small of a sample size, especially considering that you can see the general trend that he's less active as mafia. It's not totally conclusive but it's still a reasonable point. If you think they're null, then fair enough. I don't think I would be able to convince you today anyway, so I'll focus my efforts on other people. | ||
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