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On October 04 2015 04:17 rsoultin wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2015 04:04 Trfel wrote:The ShiningPlease note: - This case got quite long as I was writing it. Due to the length of the case, all of the embedded quotes and TL code, and the time of day, I'm not going to go back through and remove the self-notes that I left in the case.
- The Shining did start looking into my (Trfel's) alignment mid Day 2, and that looks very good for him. However, I would have expected this to happen much sooner. Some of my later points referring to this should possibly be dismissed, though the earlier ones are still valid.
- The Shining did follow up with his "on the fence" read on MoosyDoosy, just far later than I would have expected.
The Case- As town, The Shining generally addresses everyone in the thread when explaining his scumreads. As mafia, The Shining often addresses only his scumread when explaining his scumread. This game, there are several examples of The Shining addressing his scumread when explaining his scumread.
+ Show Spoiler +First, explaining your scumread to your scumread is simply bad. If your scumread is mafia, you shouldn't be explaining to them why they are mafia, or what it was that they did wrong. That feels more like "haha, I got you on this one, here's what you did wrong!!" rather than "Hey, I solved the game!" I did find one example of The Shining doing this in a town game. However, that's the only example I found in three town games from him. The Shining only has one scum game in the database, but he still made many cases addressed to his scumreads in that game. For a more detailed look at the games I looked at, with examples, see this post, or look at the database.
- The Shining's early analysis post on MoosyDoosy is forced
+ Show Spoiler +On September 30 2015 11:57 The Shining wrote:Show nested quote +On September 30 2015 10:55 MoosyDoosy wrote:On September 30 2015 10:54 The Shining wrote:On September 29 2015 08:43 MoosyDoosy wrote:
It's a sad day when the only person who turns out to be town is LS. In your filter right now. What made you say this? lol be prepared, my filter is an absolute disaster. On September 30 2015 09:02 MoosyDoosy wrote:
I actually think this game is fairly easy after reading through it a second time without the schizophrenic paranoid painkiller druggy glasses. You have to traverse pages of my arguments with rsoul where things finally became more or less clear for me. You weren't kidding. LoL. But I'm really on the fence about you, yuck. See posts like these read town to me at first glance because of clear reads and quotes to support what you're saying: Show nested quote +On September 29 2015 12:28 MoosyDoosy wrote:On September 29 2015 12:20 rsoultin wrote:On September 29 2015 12:14 MoosyDoosy wrote:
Well, no one has struck out to me as Mafia immediately, so I’m just waiting for a good case on someone to sheep. Not to mention, Shining and coolTLname haven’t posted yet, and the GB/rayn question remains up in the air. I don’t feel like going into sicklucker/J Roc today because I feel that’ll settle itself over time. dunno how I feel about marv. you still only got one townread? might want to get on that if you plan on being a sheeplermuffin, especially with the one townread you have why is he town? something more concrete than your earlier read on me, please and also i want your vote >> give it me LS is town for attempting to do what I managed to accomplish (redirecting the thread seriously). Eh, tone reasons and blah. Damdred looks town. Emotional Damdred over having his posts ignored although his reactions to his own shenanigans were strange at the start. rsoul is very sadly, unfortunately, i may have been on the wrong track, town. Managed to glean her direction and she's drawing the conclusions that make her look like town! rsoul. everyone else is kind of a null. I'm sure I can manage to stir something up to get more reads though. It's worthy to note that the nulls should sort themselves out. Mainly GB/rayn and J Roc/sicklucker. No way to read Shining/coolTLname/Rels. Don’t know how to read marv or Trfel. And no I refuse to give you my vote ma’am. Show nested quote +On September 29 2015 22:26 MoosyDoosy wrote:I just went ahead and plucked out a few quotes: On September 29 2015 07:13 GlowingBear wrote:On September 29 2015 07:03 rsoultin wrote:On September 29 2015 07:02 LightningStrike wrote:On September 29 2015 07:00 Trfel wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Welcome to the Wonderful World of Trfel!
(musical version) As some of you may know, I really appreciate instrumental music. As with most things, my knowledge of classical music is very limited (I only know a few of the major symphonies, for example), but that doesn't stop me from enjoying music. My tastes in music are fairly strange and specific, which I suppose comes partly from my musical background. I have no real music theory education, but I have been playing trumpet for a while, throughout grade school and continuing in college. I like to think that I'm quite good at it, but unfortunately musical instruments are very challenging for most people and it would take me far more effort than I feel comfortable giving to get my trumpet playing to the next level. So I'm stuck playing in one of the boring bands at the university, which just has a bunch of people who feel like playing their instrument once in a while but aren't terribly good at it. And I've found myself really losing my appreciation for playing and practicing trumpet, which is very sad because I've spent so much time working on my trumpet playing over the past five years or so, but I'm not sure if there is anything that I can do about it. But I still enjoy music a ton. Not just listening to it, but being a part of it. So I'm trying to learn how to compose music. It's quite difficult because I have no formal theory training (just whatever I've picked up over my years with trumpet and coming from a fairly musical family), and my piano playing skills are next to zero (and piano playing is basically how everyone composes music). So it will definitely be a difficult learning period, but I hope that I can push through it. I have a keyboard in my room now, full 88 keys. I've tried to play it several times, but I'm so bad that it's painful to listen to myself. If anyone has any tips for starting on the piano, I'm very interested XD But the piano has proved useful for testing new chords and progressions for my songs. I don't have much yet, and the progress is slow, but I'm hoping that I can figure out how to compose proper music. I generally enjoy music with heavier usage of brass instruments (I do play trumpet, after all). John Williams has done some incredible things with brass in many of his famous movie scores and other compositions. In particular, his french horn usage is amazing. I also found an old CD of some Miklos Rosza film music, and that's been really enjoyable as well. The style of music used in film scores seems very fun to compose, play, and listen to, as there is much more freedom in the music itself (though modern movies tend to utilize the musical score more for background only, and don't use a recurring melody that brings the music directly to people's attention, which I find a bit lacking). Despite having basically no idea what I'm doing, I'm very excited about the possibilities and hope to create some good songs. One great band piece to end the post (or at least, I think it's a great band piece  ): TLDR please? Also guys I'm town this game let's get some scum lynched! TLDR: yada yada music yada not posting cause music yada yada Marry me On September 29 2015 07:18 GlowingBear wrote:On September 29 2015 07:16 rsoultin wrote:On September 29 2015 07:14 Trfel wrote:On September 29 2015 07:12 rsoultin wrote:On September 29 2015 07:09 GlowingBear wrote:
By the way:
O hai!
I'm town truffle took your position. next phase Please explain, I'm not entirely sure what you're getting at here? I mean, yeah, I'd just like to have you explain this post please ^^ i see you bby you know it me and my third eye of amaze. or am i wrong and you're not being the gb acolyte, just trying to imitate the finer whiskies? (is that how you spell they plural for whisky? o.0) He is not my acolyte, he is my successor On September 29 2015 07:21 GlowingBear wrote:On September 29 2015 07:20 LightningStrike wrote:On September 29 2015 07:19 Damdred wrote:
Ok I have a couple terrible town reads Is this going to be the theme for early Day 1? This just going to a shitfest..... Ok I have a couple of terrible town reads On September 29 2015 07:17 GlowingBear wrote:On September 29 2015 07:13 raynpelikoneet wrote:On September 29 2015 07:07 Damdred wrote:
Damdred is looking for a professional sexy person to welcome into his loving towny arms. All applicants will be screened please apply below.
Requirements:
A good person to team up with
Has to not doubt my alignment once n1 hits or on weekends when I'm busy
Must not ignore my posts or talk over me
must have a good voice
and be funny
and like walks
Please apply for my townfriend i have a good voice, maybe? i might be funny. i enjoy walks. enough? Rayn who is with you in your scum qt? All of these posts are very bland. Like they're supposed to be banter but it's almost a sea of gray as if GB is forcing(?)/faking(?) the banter. Which just made me more suspicious when he started focusing on Trfel/Damdred straight away. I don't know GB's meta too well so I'm not sure if he's normally this focused or not. The thing is that he did bring two good points on Trfel and Damdred. This combination of not being sure about GB's meta and how he's bringing up good things made me town lean him for a while. But then you have posts like these that just rub me the wrong way because it doesn't make sense to me: Show nested quote +On September 29 2015 21:59 MoosyDoosy wrote:
GB, claiming I'm Mafia when I didn't even explain my reads is bad. Especially when I just entered the thread and didn't have much time to answer questions. Because you claim you didn't explain your reads but you posted this post: Show nested quote +On September 29 2015 21:37 MoosyDoosy wrote:
The problem with this game isn't so much that there are no scum reads, it's that there are too many people I'm not townreading.
- marv is town
- Rels is town
- Damdred is town
- Lightningstrike is town
Only people I'm certain of at this point.
Oh yeah, GB is town lean. hm...rayn is scum lean. AFTER this post: Show nested quote +On September 29 2015 12:28 MoosyDoosy wrote:On September 29 2015 12:20 rsoultin wrote:On September 29 2015 12:14 MoosyDoosy wrote:
Well, no one has struck out to me as Mafia immediately, so I’m just waiting for a good case on someone to sheep. Not to mention, Shining and coolTLname haven’t posted yet, and the GB/rayn question remains up in the air. I don’t feel like going into sicklucker/J Roc today because I feel that’ll settle itself over time. dunno how I feel about marv. you still only got one townread? might want to get on that if you plan on being a sheeplermuffin, especially with the one townread you have why is he town? something more concrete than your earlier read on me, please and also i want your vote >> give it me LS is town for attempting to do what I managed to accomplish (redirecting the thread seriously). Eh, tone reasons and blah. Damdred looks town. Emotional Damdred over having his posts ignored although his reactions to his own shenanigans were strange at the start. rsoul is very sadly, unfortunately, i may have been on the wrong track, town. Managed to glean her direction and she's drawing the conclusions that make her look like town! rsoul. everyone else is kind of a null. I'm sure I can manage to stir something up to get more reads though. It's worthy to note that the nulls should sort themselves out. Mainly GB/rayn and J Roc/sicklucker. No way to read Shining/coolTLname/Rels. Don’t know how to read marv or Trfel. And no I refuse to give you my vote ma’am. TLDR You said GB was bad for calling you scum when you didn't even explain your reads but you explained your reads before making that list with no explanations. And you went from idk how to read Marv to Marv town. That's the only unexplained one att. This is a fairly long post. For the conclusion of "I'm on the fence". No questions for MoosyDoosy either. I'm not sure what the purpose is for town to post this. Furthermore, the point that The Shining gives about MoosyDoosy's post to GlowingBear shows a lack of thought. MoosyDoosy makes a reads post on several people in the thread and then leaves for 11 hours and 9 minutes. When he comes back, he makes a read post with four certain town reads, one scum lean, and one town lean, but he doesn't explain them. After this post, GlowingBear says that MoosyDoosy is mafia, and MoosyDoosy says it's bad that GlowingBear would call him mafia instead of waiting for his reasons for these reads. The Shining's argument is that MoosyDoosy already explained his reads in the other post that he quoted. Only two of the six people mentioned in MoosyDoosy's later post were people that MoosyDoosy had given a read on in his earlier post. This is something that The Shining should always see. The only explanation is that The Shining was rushed through this. So back to the original question, why is The Shining making this post? A long analysis post with no conclusion and no questions isn't terribly useful, except as perhaps a point of discussion or to share thoughts to be followed up on later (except The Shining doesn't talk about MoosyDoosy or follow up on this at all, more on that later). But the analysis is rushed and therefore has a flaw. The Shining entered the thread late. He apologized for his late entrance and being busy. This post feels like a post made to get townread, not a post made to find scum, as it doesn't really have much purpose (especially without the followup) and is rushed.
- The Shining's followup to his early series of posts suggests that he's playing to get townread, not to find scum
+ Show Spoiler +On September 30 2015 09:57 The Shining wrote:
Moosy and Trfel are question marks for me that I won't give a read on until I'm done filter diving them. This is why The Shining was filter diving MoosyDoosy. You would expect him to filter dive me next. He doesn't. The Shining was townread by many people for his first series of posts. On September 30 2015 12:05 sicklucker wrote:
shining is so town it hurts. never seen him post before let alone a post that big when he bizzy On September 30 2015 12:27 Damdred wrote:
Hi, shining is pretty towny good guy so far.
On September 30 2015 12:27 rsoultin wrote:
dododo
recreating town circles
-gathers truffle, shining and damdy into the fold- ^^
brain trust! \o/
not lynching moosy, rayn or sl today...i think i'll add cool here...he smells of newbie newness
ye i'm being female...so sue me
i think i actually want to lynch into rels, marv and scott
on whims, magic, and gut feels And after this, The Shining's effort level and analysis drops off. He's busy, he's phone posting, I get it. It's not a 100% argument, but it is still suspicious. There is a followup section to this argument later. Note to self, did he ever filter dive me? Did he ever post an analysis post like the MoosyDoosy one again?
- Push on coolTLname doesn't feel natural
+ Show Spoiler +This section has two parts. The second is much more important than the first.
I think that this point is an opinion, and it's hard to explain. To me, there were several points that people had to lynch coolTLname, and The Shining spent most of his time talking about his own reason that he was suspicious of coolTLname (that coolTLname said he would check marvellosity's past games and never did). I don't find this point terribly interesting, especially after it's been mentioned a few times, since then if coolTLname does go back and check marvellosity's past games there's the "he just did it to be townread!" argument. Basically, there's no point for The Shining to keep bringing this point up, not over all of the other points that have been brought up. And then when coolTLname says that marvellosity is irrelevant, which makes a fair amount of sense from his perspective if you are willing to actually try and understand what he's saying instead of just reading the words, The Shining seems to use that as a reason to be even more suspicious of coolTLname. I don't see The Shining using critical thinking here, it seems like he's trying to invent his own reason to join the coolTLname wagon. However, this is an opinion, and I can understand how people disagree.
The more interesting thing here is what DOESN'T happen. Here's the vote count at the time that The Shining returns to the thread. rsoultin (4): Trfel, marvellosity, raynpelikoneet, scott31337 GlowingBear (3): rsoultin, Damdred, coolTLname Trfel (2): LightningStrike, sicklucker coolTLname (2): Rels, GlowingBear raynpelikoneet (1): MoosyDoosy If he had time, you would expect him to read my filter, which he hasn't done yet. But even that aside, he should be interested in the pushes on rsoultin and GlowingBear. In my summary of the thread sentiment/direction at the time, I cited those as the main wagons. The Shining does say that he thinks that rsoultin is still town, just for different reasons. But he never seems to check the reasons that marvellosity and raynpelikoneet had for pushing rsoultin, which I could have expected him to do. I don't think he looks at the reasons for the GlowingBear lynch at all either. He never gives a new read on GlowingBear. When raynpelikoneet votes for LightningStrike, The Shining asks him why. However, The Shining doesn't seem very interested in actually lynching LightningStrike, despite being suspicious of him for the entire game. I don't see any drive from The Shining to investigate LightningStrike at all here. Since The Shining says here that coolTLname and LightningStrike can't be mafia together, one would expect him to be much more interested in LightningStrike's alignment, given that he's lynching coolTLname. Furthermore, after the Day 1 lynch, The Shining spends several posts exlaining to coolTLname why he is 100% mafia. This doesn't make sense from a town standpoint at all.
- After Day 1, The Shining seems content to follow the thread sentiment and I don't see him putting in the effort that I would expect from him as town
+ Show Spoiler +On October 02 2015 06:18 The Shining wrote:I believe in cool. I need to revisit the RSo cases but your last summary post of her actions are starting to make me wonder, if its all true. This wouldn't be the first time I hard towned scum RSo =/ but her play that game was different. LS is questionable/bad town at best, scum at worst but I still live in a world where both him and cool can't be scum. =/ LS sheeped onto cool and idk if he's confident enough as scum to bus D1. And yeah Moosy is/should be on that list, too, if LS or cool were to flip town. So he basically just agrees with raynpelikoneet's reads. And he admits that he never really investigated if raynpelikoneet's reasons for scumreading rsoultin were good or not, which he really should have given some attention to as town. He also doesn't seem very interested in looking into LightningStrike's alignment, which as previously explained, is very important since he is scumreading coolTLname and he says that they can't be scum together. It also feels like The Shining follows the thread sentiment with regards to MoosyDoosy. He's apparently on the fence on MoosyDoosy for all of Day 1 and Night 1, but never bothers to engage other people in discussing MoosyDoosy (despite at one point listing this as his third strongest suspicion). When thread sentiment shifts clearly to suspecting MoosyDoosy, The Shining shifts with it. As Day 2 starts, The Shining's push on MoosyDoosy looks much better, but the original shift of suspicion with the thread sentiment feels mafia motivated. Furthermore, this progression doesn't make sense. First he says that he's voting for coolTLname and coolTLname should have been lynched on Day 1. Then he says that he doesn't like auto lynches and Day 2 shouldn't be an auto lynch day (I don't see him doing anything at all to help with this, note to self, does he ever look into actually lynching anyone other than coolTLname?). Finally, he says this to coolTLname. On October 02 2015 11:51 The Shining wrote:
OK srsly please stop this. This is your 2nd give up post, and we still have 40+ hours left in this day phase. Instead of asking if anyone remembers who asked about you too hunting, why not use your time to find it yourself? How many times are you going to declare your innocence but then do jack shit about it? This reads like a scum post just trying to get people to waste time on shit we dont need to waste time on.
And it wasn't me that said you were role hunting but thanks for trying to pin that on me. -1 CoolTLname has been The Shining's top scum read for the entire game. It's the thing he's most consistent on throughout his filter. His scumread on coolTLname has been strong enough for The Shining to not want to lynch LightningStrike, his other consistent scumread throughout his filter. But here, he's talking to coolTLname as if coolTLname is town (I admit that I generally don't like this argument, but here it seems stronger). He's telling coolTLname how to play a better town game while calling him scum twice. And getting frustrated at his strongest scumread for being scummy. I could understand this if The Shining seemed to doubt coolTLname's alignment, but he doesn't. I don't think he really looks into anyone else after this (note to self, check this), in which case this post has no place in a town mindset. On October 03 2015 04:40 The Shining wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2015 11:59 MoosyDoosy wrote:
did anyone notice he literally revokes everything he said and did in that post of his... Actually yeah wow this. Bah Moosy can be town, there's no way we keep having mind melds like this. This is a very strange post, but there isn't that much mafia motivation for The Shining to post this (some, but not a significant amount). I'll leave this here as a note for anyone who wants to try and investigate more. On October 03 2015 05:05 The Shining wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2015 14:04 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Trfel which one of us do you believe is right? Did Trfel ever answer this? All I saw was him saying he thought cool was town and that their talk was getting nowhere. After saying he'd lynch cool because even if he's town because he's not helpful to town. That's a weird progression and considering I think rayn is town and cool is scum, it seems pretty weird to not take a side here or even analyze what the arguments they had against each other were. Okay, so he's a bit suspicious of me (Trfel) as well. He does eventually look into my alignment, which is good for him, but he never finishes with this. Also, note that he doesn't seem to look at LightningStrike at all, despite noticing that raynpelikoneet argued that LightningStrike and coolTLname can be mafia together. He just says that he's interested in raynpelikoneet's argument, but doesn't follow up on the argument itself or on LightningStrike.
ConclusionThe Shining only used filter diving analysis twice in the game (early Day 1 on MoosyDoosy, and mid Day 2 on Trfel). Along with his read progression, he seems to be playing more to get townread instead of to find mafia. He also shows that his mindset is not a town mindset on several occasions. meh truffle...i really don't want to bash on something that obviously took a lot of work, but i'm not really sure how these things make him scum when he's had limited time. and he often has limited time. i don't really remember a game where he hasn't? I meant to clarify that, but I forgot to...
When I say a lack of effort, I don't mean time. I'm not saying that from a town standpoint he should be doing more, just that he should be doing different things. It's not that he isn't spending enough time on the game, or isn't making enough posts, it's that he's not doing the things that would be natural for him to do as town.
Town with limited time is still going to do towny things with that limited time.
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On October 04 2015 04:19 Trfel wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2015 04:17 rsoultin wrote:On October 04 2015 04:04 Trfel wrote:The ShiningPlease note: - This case got quite long as I was writing it. Due to the length of the case, all of the embedded quotes and TL code, and the time of day, I'm not going to go back through and remove the self-notes that I left in the case.
- The Shining did start looking into my (Trfel's) alignment mid Day 2, and that looks very good for him. However, I would have expected this to happen much sooner. Some of my later points referring to this should possibly be dismissed, though the earlier ones are still valid.
- The Shining did follow up with his "on the fence" read on MoosyDoosy, just far later than I would have expected.
The Case- As town, The Shining generally addresses everyone in the thread when explaining his scumreads. As mafia, The Shining often addresses only his scumread when explaining his scumread. This game, there are several examples of The Shining addressing his scumread when explaining his scumread.
+ Show Spoiler +First, explaining your scumread to your scumread is simply bad. If your scumread is mafia, you shouldn't be explaining to them why they are mafia, or what it was that they did wrong. That feels more like "haha, I got you on this one, here's what you did wrong!!" rather than "Hey, I solved the game!" I did find one example of The Shining doing this in a town game. However, that's the only example I found in three town games from him. The Shining only has one scum game in the database, but he still made many cases addressed to his scumreads in that game. For a more detailed look at the games I looked at, with examples, see this post, or look at the database.
- The Shining's early analysis post on MoosyDoosy is forced
+ Show Spoiler +On September 30 2015 11:57 The Shining wrote:Show nested quote +On September 30 2015 10:55 MoosyDoosy wrote:On September 30 2015 10:54 The Shining wrote:On September 29 2015 08:43 MoosyDoosy wrote:
It's a sad day when the only person who turns out to be town is LS. In your filter right now. What made you say this? lol be prepared, my filter is an absolute disaster. On September 30 2015 09:02 MoosyDoosy wrote:
I actually think this game is fairly easy after reading through it a second time without the schizophrenic paranoid painkiller druggy glasses. You have to traverse pages of my arguments with rsoul where things finally became more or less clear for me. You weren't kidding. LoL. But I'm really on the fence about you, yuck. See posts like these read town to me at first glance because of clear reads and quotes to support what you're saying: Show nested quote +On September 29 2015 12:28 MoosyDoosy wrote:On September 29 2015 12:20 rsoultin wrote:On September 29 2015 12:14 MoosyDoosy wrote:
Well, no one has struck out to me as Mafia immediately, so I’m just waiting for a good case on someone to sheep. Not to mention, Shining and coolTLname haven’t posted yet, and the GB/rayn question remains up in the air. I don’t feel like going into sicklucker/J Roc today because I feel that’ll settle itself over time. dunno how I feel about marv. you still only got one townread? might want to get on that if you plan on being a sheeplermuffin, especially with the one townread you have why is he town? something more concrete than your earlier read on me, please and also i want your vote >> give it me LS is town for attempting to do what I managed to accomplish (redirecting the thread seriously). Eh, tone reasons and blah. Damdred looks town. Emotional Damdred over having his posts ignored although his reactions to his own shenanigans were strange at the start. rsoul is very sadly, unfortunately, i may have been on the wrong track, town. Managed to glean her direction and she's drawing the conclusions that make her look like town! rsoul. everyone else is kind of a null. I'm sure I can manage to stir something up to get more reads though. It's worthy to note that the nulls should sort themselves out. Mainly GB/rayn and J Roc/sicklucker. No way to read Shining/coolTLname/Rels. Don’t know how to read marv or Trfel. And no I refuse to give you my vote ma’am. Show nested quote +On September 29 2015 22:26 MoosyDoosy wrote:I just went ahead and plucked out a few quotes: On September 29 2015 07:13 GlowingBear wrote:On September 29 2015 07:03 rsoultin wrote:On September 29 2015 07:02 LightningStrike wrote:On September 29 2015 07:00 Trfel wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Welcome to the Wonderful World of Trfel!
(musical version) As some of you may know, I really appreciate instrumental music. As with most things, my knowledge of classical music is very limited (I only know a few of the major symphonies, for example), but that doesn't stop me from enjoying music. My tastes in music are fairly strange and specific, which I suppose comes partly from my musical background. I have no real music theory education, but I have been playing trumpet for a while, throughout grade school and continuing in college. I like to think that I'm quite good at it, but unfortunately musical instruments are very challenging for most people and it would take me far more effort than I feel comfortable giving to get my trumpet playing to the next level. So I'm stuck playing in one of the boring bands at the university, which just has a bunch of people who feel like playing their instrument once in a while but aren't terribly good at it. And I've found myself really losing my appreciation for playing and practicing trumpet, which is very sad because I've spent so much time working on my trumpet playing over the past five years or so, but I'm not sure if there is anything that I can do about it. But I still enjoy music a ton. Not just listening to it, but being a part of it. So I'm trying to learn how to compose music. It's quite difficult because I have no formal theory training (just whatever I've picked up over my years with trumpet and coming from a fairly musical family), and my piano playing skills are next to zero (and piano playing is basically how everyone composes music). So it will definitely be a difficult learning period, but I hope that I can push through it. I have a keyboard in my room now, full 88 keys. I've tried to play it several times, but I'm so bad that it's painful to listen to myself. If anyone has any tips for starting on the piano, I'm very interested XD But the piano has proved useful for testing new chords and progressions for my songs. I don't have much yet, and the progress is slow, but I'm hoping that I can figure out how to compose proper music. I generally enjoy music with heavier usage of brass instruments (I do play trumpet, after all). John Williams has done some incredible things with brass in many of his famous movie scores and other compositions. In particular, his french horn usage is amazing. I also found an old CD of some Miklos Rosza film music, and that's been really enjoyable as well. The style of music used in film scores seems very fun to compose, play, and listen to, as there is much more freedom in the music itself (though modern movies tend to utilize the musical score more for background only, and don't use a recurring melody that brings the music directly to people's attention, which I find a bit lacking). Despite having basically no idea what I'm doing, I'm very excited about the possibilities and hope to create some good songs. One great band piece to end the post (or at least, I think it's a great band piece ): TLDR please? Also guys I'm town this game let's get some scum lynched! TLDR: yada yada music yada not posting cause music yada yada Marry me On September 29 2015 07:18 GlowingBear wrote:On September 29 2015 07:16 rsoultin wrote:On September 29 2015 07:14 Trfel wrote:On September 29 2015 07:12 rsoultin wrote:On September 29 2015 07:09 GlowingBear wrote:
By the way:
O hai!
I'm town truffle took your position. next phase Please explain, I'm not entirely sure what you're getting at here? I mean, yeah, I'd just like to have you explain this post please ^^ i see you bby you know it me and my third eye of amaze. or am i wrong and you're not being the gb acolyte, just trying to imitate the finer whiskies? (is that how you spell they plural for whisky? o.0) He is not my acolyte, he is my successor On September 29 2015 07:21 GlowingBear wrote:On September 29 2015 07:20 LightningStrike wrote:On September 29 2015 07:19 Damdred wrote:
Ok I have a couple terrible town reads Is this going to be the theme for early Day 1? This just going to a shitfest..... Ok I have a couple of terrible town reads On September 29 2015 07:17 GlowingBear wrote:On September 29 2015 07:13 raynpelikoneet wrote:On September 29 2015 07:07 Damdred wrote:
Damdred is looking for a professional sexy person to welcome into his loving towny arms. All applicants will be screened please apply below.
Requirements:
A good person to team up with
Has to not doubt my alignment once n1 hits or on weekends when I'm busy
Must not ignore my posts or talk over me
must have a good voice
and be funny
and like walks
Please apply for my townfriend i have a good voice, maybe? i might be funny. i enjoy walks. enough? Rayn who is with you in your scum qt? All of these posts are very bland. Like they're supposed to be banter but it's almost a sea of gray as if GB is forcing(?)/faking(?) the banter. Which just made me more suspicious when he started focusing on Trfel/Damdred straight away. I don't know GB's meta too well so I'm not sure if he's normally this focused or not. The thing is that he did bring two good points on Trfel and Damdred. This combination of not being sure about GB's meta and how he's bringing up good things made me town lean him for a while. But then you have posts like these that just rub me the wrong way because it doesn't make sense to me: Show nested quote +On September 29 2015 21:59 MoosyDoosy wrote:
GB, claiming I'm Mafia when I didn't even explain my reads is bad. Especially when I just entered the thread and didn't have much time to answer questions. Because you claim you didn't explain your reads but you posted this post: Show nested quote +On September 29 2015 21:37 MoosyDoosy wrote:
The problem with this game isn't so much that there are no scum reads, it's that there are too many people I'm not townreading.
- marv is town
- Rels is town
- Damdred is town
- Lightningstrike is town
Only people I'm certain of at this point.
Oh yeah, GB is town lean. hm...rayn is scum lean. AFTER this post: Show nested quote +On September 29 2015 12:28 MoosyDoosy wrote:On September 29 2015 12:20 rsoultin wrote:On September 29 2015 12:14 MoosyDoosy wrote:
Well, no one has struck out to me as Mafia immediately, so I’m just waiting for a good case on someone to sheep. Not to mention, Shining and coolTLname haven’t posted yet, and the GB/rayn question remains up in the air. I don’t feel like going into sicklucker/J Roc today because I feel that’ll settle itself over time. dunno how I feel about marv. you still only got one townread? might want to get on that if you plan on being a sheeplermuffin, especially with the one townread you have why is he town? something more concrete than your earlier read on me, please and also i want your vote >> give it me LS is town for attempting to do what I managed to accomplish (redirecting the thread seriously). Eh, tone reasons and blah. Damdred looks town. Emotional Damdred over having his posts ignored although his reactions to his own shenanigans were strange at the start. rsoul is very sadly, unfortunately, i may have been on the wrong track, town. Managed to glean her direction and she's drawing the conclusions that make her look like town! rsoul. everyone else is kind of a null. I'm sure I can manage to stir something up to get more reads though. It's worthy to note that the nulls should sort themselves out. Mainly GB/rayn and J Roc/sicklucker. No way to read Shining/coolTLname/Rels. Don’t know how to read marv or Trfel. And no I refuse to give you my vote ma’am. TLDR You said GB was bad for calling you scum when you didn't even explain your reads but you explained your reads before making that list with no explanations. And you went from idk how to read Marv to Marv town. That's the only unexplained one att. This is a fairly long post. For the conclusion of "I'm on the fence". No questions for MoosyDoosy either. I'm not sure what the purpose is for town to post this. Furthermore, the point that The Shining gives about MoosyDoosy's post to GlowingBear shows a lack of thought. MoosyDoosy makes a reads post on several people in the thread and then leaves for 11 hours and 9 minutes. When he comes back, he makes a read post with four certain town reads, one scum lean, and one town lean, but he doesn't explain them. After this post, GlowingBear says that MoosyDoosy is mafia, and MoosyDoosy says it's bad that GlowingBear would call him mafia instead of waiting for his reasons for these reads. The Shining's argument is that MoosyDoosy already explained his reads in the other post that he quoted. Only two of the six people mentioned in MoosyDoosy's later post were people that MoosyDoosy had given a read on in his earlier post. This is something that The Shining should always see. The only explanation is that The Shining was rushed through this. So back to the original question, why is The Shining making this post? A long analysis post with no conclusion and no questions isn't terribly useful, except as perhaps a point of discussion or to share thoughts to be followed up on later (except The Shining doesn't talk about MoosyDoosy or follow up on this at all, more on that later). But the analysis is rushed and therefore has a flaw. The Shining entered the thread late. He apologized for his late entrance and being busy. This post feels like a post made to get townread, not a post made to find scum, as it doesn't really have much purpose (especially without the followup) and is rushed.
- The Shining's followup to his early series of posts suggests that he's playing to get townread, not to find scum
+ Show Spoiler +On September 30 2015 09:57 The Shining wrote:
Moosy and Trfel are question marks for me that I won't give a read on until I'm done filter diving them. This is why The Shining was filter diving MoosyDoosy. You would expect him to filter dive me next. He doesn't. The Shining was townread by many people for his first series of posts. On September 30 2015 12:05 sicklucker wrote:
shining is so town it hurts. never seen him post before let alone a post that big when he bizzy On September 30 2015 12:27 Damdred wrote:
Hi, shining is pretty towny good guy so far.
On September 30 2015 12:27 rsoultin wrote:
dododo
recreating town circles
-gathers truffle, shining and damdy into the fold- ^^
brain trust! \o/
not lynching moosy, rayn or sl today...i think i'll add cool here...he smells of newbie newness
ye i'm being female...so sue me
i think i actually want to lynch into rels, marv and scott
on whims, magic, and gut feels And after this, The Shining's effort level and analysis drops off. He's busy, he's phone posting, I get it. It's not a 100% argument, but it is still suspicious. There is a followup section to this argument later. Note to self, did he ever filter dive me? Did he ever post an analysis post like the MoosyDoosy one again?
- Push on coolTLname doesn't feel natural
+ Show Spoiler +This section has two parts. The second is much more important than the first.
I think that this point is an opinion, and it's hard to explain. To me, there were several points that people had to lynch coolTLname, and The Shining spent most of his time talking about his own reason that he was suspicious of coolTLname (that coolTLname said he would check marvellosity's past games and never did). I don't find this point terribly interesting, especially after it's been mentioned a few times, since then if coolTLname does go back and check marvellosity's past games there's the "he just did it to be townread!" argument. Basically, there's no point for The Shining to keep bringing this point up, not over all of the other points that have been brought up. And then when coolTLname says that marvellosity is irrelevant, which makes a fair amount of sense from his perspective if you are willing to actually try and understand what he's saying instead of just reading the words, The Shining seems to use that as a reason to be even more suspicious of coolTLname. I don't see The Shining using critical thinking here, it seems like he's trying to invent his own reason to join the coolTLname wagon. However, this is an opinion, and I can understand how people disagree.
The more interesting thing here is what DOESN'T happen. Here's the vote count at the time that The Shining returns to the thread. rsoultin (4): Trfel, marvellosity, raynpelikoneet, scott31337 GlowingBear (3): rsoultin, Damdred, coolTLname Trfel (2): LightningStrike, sicklucker coolTLname (2): Rels, GlowingBear raynpelikoneet (1): MoosyDoosy If he had time, you would expect him to read my filter, which he hasn't done yet. But even that aside, he should be interested in the pushes on rsoultin and GlowingBear. In my summary of the thread sentiment/direction at the time, I cited those as the main wagons. The Shining does say that he thinks that rsoultin is still town, just for different reasons. But he never seems to check the reasons that marvellosity and raynpelikoneet had for pushing rsoultin, which I could have expected him to do. I don't think he looks at the reasons for the GlowingBear lynch at all either. He never gives a new read on GlowingBear. When raynpelikoneet votes for LightningStrike, The Shining asks him why. However, The Shining doesn't seem very interested in actually lynching LightningStrike, despite being suspicious of him for the entire game. I don't see any drive from The Shining to investigate LightningStrike at all here. Since The Shining says here that coolTLname and LightningStrike can't be mafia together, one would expect him to be much more interested in LightningStrike's alignment, given that he's lynching coolTLname. Furthermore, after the Day 1 lynch, The Shining spends several posts exlaining to coolTLname why he is 100% mafia. This doesn't make sense from a town standpoint at all.
- After Day 1, The Shining seems content to follow the thread sentiment and I don't see him putting in the effort that I would expect from him as town
+ Show Spoiler +On October 02 2015 06:18 The Shining wrote:I believe in cool. I need to revisit the RSo cases but your last summary post of her actions are starting to make me wonder, if its all true. This wouldn't be the first time I hard towned scum RSo =/ but her play that game was different. LS is questionable/bad town at best, scum at worst but I still live in a world where both him and cool can't be scum. =/ LS sheeped onto cool and idk if he's confident enough as scum to bus D1. And yeah Moosy is/should be on that list, too, if LS or cool were to flip town. So he basically just agrees with raynpelikoneet's reads. And he admits that he never really investigated if raynpelikoneet's reasons for scumreading rsoultin were good or not, which he really should have given some attention to as town. He also doesn't seem very interested in looking into LightningStrike's alignment, which as previously explained, is very important since he is scumreading coolTLname and he says that they can't be scum together. It also feels like The Shining follows the thread sentiment with regards to MoosyDoosy. He's apparently on the fence on MoosyDoosy for all of Day 1 and Night 1, but never bothers to engage other people in discussing MoosyDoosy (despite at one point listing this as his third strongest suspicion). When thread sentiment shifts clearly to suspecting MoosyDoosy, The Shining shifts with it. As Day 2 starts, The Shining's push on MoosyDoosy looks much better, but the original shift of suspicion with the thread sentiment feels mafia motivated. Furthermore, this progression doesn't make sense. First he says that he's voting for coolTLname and coolTLname should have been lynched on Day 1. Then he says that he doesn't like auto lynches and Day 2 shouldn't be an auto lynch day (I don't see him doing anything at all to help with this, note to self, does he ever look into actually lynching anyone other than coolTLname?). Finally, he says this to coolTLname. On October 02 2015 11:51 The Shining wrote:
OK srsly please stop this. This is your 2nd give up post, and we still have 40+ hours left in this day phase. Instead of asking if anyone remembers who asked about you too hunting, why not use your time to find it yourself? How many times are you going to declare your innocence but then do jack shit about it? This reads like a scum post just trying to get people to waste time on shit we dont need to waste time on.
And it wasn't me that said you were role hunting but thanks for trying to pin that on me. -1 CoolTLname has been The Shining's top scum read for the entire game. It's the thing he's most consistent on throughout his filter. His scumread on coolTLname has been strong enough for The Shining to not want to lynch LightningStrike, his other consistent scumread throughout his filter. But here, he's talking to coolTLname as if coolTLname is town (I admit that I generally don't like this argument, but here it seems stronger). He's telling coolTLname how to play a better town game while calling him scum twice. And getting frustrated at his strongest scumread for being scummy. I could understand this if The Shining seemed to doubt coolTLname's alignment, but he doesn't. I don't think he really looks into anyone else after this (note to self, check this), in which case this post has no place in a town mindset. On October 03 2015 04:40 The Shining wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2015 11:59 MoosyDoosy wrote:
did anyone notice he literally revokes everything he said and did in that post of his... Actually yeah wow this. Bah Moosy can be town, there's no way we keep having mind melds like this. This is a very strange post, but there isn't that much mafia motivation for The Shining to post this (some, but not a significant amount). I'll leave this here as a note for anyone who wants to try and investigate more. On October 03 2015 05:05 The Shining wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2015 14:04 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Trfel which one of us do you believe is right? Did Trfel ever answer this? All I saw was him saying he thought cool was town and that their talk was getting nowhere. After saying he'd lynch cool because even if he's town because he's not helpful to town. That's a weird progression and considering I think rayn is town and cool is scum, it seems pretty weird to not take a side here or even analyze what the arguments they had against each other were. Okay, so he's a bit suspicious of me (Trfel) as well. He does eventually look into my alignment, which is good for him, but he never finishes with this. Also, note that he doesn't seem to look at LightningStrike at all, despite noticing that raynpelikoneet argued that LightningStrike and coolTLname can be mafia together. He just says that he's interested in raynpelikoneet's argument, but doesn't follow up on the argument itself or on LightningStrike.
ConclusionThe Shining only used filter diving analysis twice in the game (early Day 1 on MoosyDoosy, and mid Day 2 on Trfel). Along with his read progression, he seems to be playing more to get townread instead of to find mafia. He also shows that his mindset is not a town mindset on several occasions. meh truffle...i really don't want to bash on something that obviously took a lot of work, but i'm not really sure how these things make him scum when he's had limited time. and he often has limited time. i don't really remember a game where he hasn't? I meant to clarify that, but I forgot to... When I say a lack of effort, I don't mean time. I'm not saying that from a town standpoint he should be doing more, just that he should be doing different things. It's not that he isn't spending enough time on the game, or isn't making enough posts, it's that he's not doing the things that would be natural for him to do as town. Town with limited time is still going to do towny things with that limited time. Bleh, this is unclear...
Lack of effort as in, he doesn't care to investigate the things that actually matter (from his perspective).
|
On October 04 2015 04:22 rsoultin wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2015 04:19 Trfel wrote:On October 04 2015 04:17 rsoultin wrote:On October 04 2015 04:04 Trfel wrote:The ShiningPlease note: - This case got quite long as I was writing it. Due to the length of the case, all of the embedded quotes and TL code, and the time of day, I'm not going to go back through and remove the self-notes that I left in the case.
- The Shining did start looking into my (Trfel's) alignment mid Day 2, and that looks very good for him. However, I would have expected this to happen much sooner. Some of my later points referring to this should possibly be dismissed, though the earlier ones are still valid.
- The Shining did follow up with his "on the fence" read on MoosyDoosy, just far later than I would have expected.
The Case- As town, The Shining generally addresses everyone in the thread when explaining his scumreads. As mafia, The Shining often addresses only his scumread when explaining his scumread. This game, there are several examples of The Shining addressing his scumread when explaining his scumread.
+ Show Spoiler +First, explaining your scumread to your scumread is simply bad. If your scumread is mafia, you shouldn't be explaining to them why they are mafia, or what it was that they did wrong. That feels more like "haha, I got you on this one, here's what you did wrong!!" rather than "Hey, I solved the game!" I did find one example of The Shining doing this in a town game. However, that's the only example I found in three town games from him. The Shining only has one scum game in the database, but he still made many cases addressed to his scumreads in that game. For a more detailed look at the games I looked at, with examples, see this post, or look at the database.
- The Shining's early analysis post on MoosyDoosy is forced
+ Show Spoiler +On September 30 2015 11:57 The Shining wrote:Show nested quote +On September 30 2015 10:55 MoosyDoosy wrote:On September 30 2015 10:54 The Shining wrote:On September 29 2015 08:43 MoosyDoosy wrote:
It's a sad day when the only person who turns out to be town is LS. In your filter right now. What made you say this? lol be prepared, my filter is an absolute disaster. On September 30 2015 09:02 MoosyDoosy wrote:
I actually think this game is fairly easy after reading through it a second time without the schizophrenic paranoid painkiller druggy glasses. You have to traverse pages of my arguments with rsoul where things finally became more or less clear for me. You weren't kidding. LoL. But I'm really on the fence about you, yuck. See posts like these read town to me at first glance because of clear reads and quotes to support what you're saying: Show nested quote +On September 29 2015 12:28 MoosyDoosy wrote:On September 29 2015 12:20 rsoultin wrote:On September 29 2015 12:14 MoosyDoosy wrote:
Well, no one has struck out to me as Mafia immediately, so I’m just waiting for a good case on someone to sheep. Not to mention, Shining and coolTLname haven’t posted yet, and the GB/rayn question remains up in the air. I don’t feel like going into sicklucker/J Roc today because I feel that’ll settle itself over time. dunno how I feel about marv. you still only got one townread? might want to get on that if you plan on being a sheeplermuffin, especially with the one townread you have why is he town? something more concrete than your earlier read on me, please and also i want your vote >> give it me LS is town for attempting to do what I managed to accomplish (redirecting the thread seriously). Eh, tone reasons and blah. Damdred looks town. Emotional Damdred over having his posts ignored although his reactions to his own shenanigans were strange at the start. rsoul is very sadly, unfortunately, i may have been on the wrong track, town. Managed to glean her direction and she's drawing the conclusions that make her look like town! rsoul. everyone else is kind of a null. I'm sure I can manage to stir something up to get more reads though. It's worthy to note that the nulls should sort themselves out. Mainly GB/rayn and J Roc/sicklucker. No way to read Shining/coolTLname/Rels. Don’t know how to read marv or Trfel. And no I refuse to give you my vote ma’am. Show nested quote +On September 29 2015 22:26 MoosyDoosy wrote:I just went ahead and plucked out a few quotes: On September 29 2015 07:13 GlowingBear wrote:On September 29 2015 07:03 rsoultin wrote:On September 29 2015 07:02 LightningStrike wrote:On September 29 2015 07:00 Trfel wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Welcome to the Wonderful World of Trfel!
(musical version) As some of you may know, I really appreciate instrumental music. As with most things, my knowledge of classical music is very limited (I only know a few of the major symphonies, for example), but that doesn't stop me from enjoying music. My tastes in music are fairly strange and specific, which I suppose comes partly from my musical background. I have no real music theory education, but I have been playing trumpet for a while, throughout grade school and continuing in college. I like to think that I'm quite good at it, but unfortunately musical instruments are very challenging for most people and it would take me far more effort than I feel comfortable giving to get my trumpet playing to the next level. So I'm stuck playing in one of the boring bands at the university, which just has a bunch of people who feel like playing their instrument once in a while but aren't terribly good at it. And I've found myself really losing my appreciation for playing and practicing trumpet, which is very sad because I've spent so much time working on my trumpet playing over the past five years or so, but I'm not sure if there is anything that I can do about it. But I still enjoy music a ton. Not just listening to it, but being a part of it. So I'm trying to learn how to compose music. It's quite difficult because I have no formal theory training (just whatever I've picked up over my years with trumpet and coming from a fairly musical family), and my piano playing skills are next to zero (and piano playing is basically how everyone composes music). So it will definitely be a difficult learning period, but I hope that I can push through it. I have a keyboard in my room now, full 88 keys. I've tried to play it several times, but I'm so bad that it's painful to listen to myself. If anyone has any tips for starting on the piano, I'm very interested XD But the piano has proved useful for testing new chords and progressions for my songs. I don't have much yet, and the progress is slow, but I'm hoping that I can figure out how to compose proper music. I generally enjoy music with heavier usage of brass instruments (I do play trumpet, after all). John Williams has done some incredible things with brass in many of his famous movie scores and other compositions. In particular, his french horn usage is amazing. I also found an old CD of some Miklos Rosza film music, and that's been really enjoyable as well. The style of music used in film scores seems very fun to compose, play, and listen to, as there is much more freedom in the music itself (though modern movies tend to utilize the musical score more for background only, and don't use a recurring melody that brings the music directly to people's attention, which I find a bit lacking). Despite having basically no idea what I'm doing, I'm very excited about the possibilities and hope to create some good songs. One great band piece to end the post (or at least, I think it's a great band piece ): TLDR please? Also guys I'm town this game let's get some scum lynched! TLDR: yada yada music yada not posting cause music yada yada Marry me On September 29 2015 07:18 GlowingBear wrote:On September 29 2015 07:16 rsoultin wrote:On September 29 2015 07:14 Trfel wrote:On September 29 2015 07:12 rsoultin wrote:On September 29 2015 07:09 GlowingBear wrote:
By the way:
O hai!
I'm town truffle took your position. next phase Please explain, I'm not entirely sure what you're getting at here? I mean, yeah, I'd just like to have you explain this post please ^^ i see you bby you know it me and my third eye of amaze. or am i wrong and you're not being the gb acolyte, just trying to imitate the finer whiskies? (is that how you spell they plural for whisky? o.0) He is not my acolyte, he is my successor On September 29 2015 07:21 GlowingBear wrote:On September 29 2015 07:20 LightningStrike wrote:On September 29 2015 07:19 Damdred wrote:
Ok I have a couple terrible town reads Is this going to be the theme for early Day 1? This just going to a shitfest..... Ok I have a couple of terrible town reads On September 29 2015 07:17 GlowingBear wrote:On September 29 2015 07:13 raynpelikoneet wrote:On September 29 2015 07:07 Damdred wrote:
Damdred is looking for a professional sexy person to welcome into his loving towny arms. All applicants will be screened please apply below.
Requirements:
A good person to team up with
Has to not doubt my alignment once n1 hits or on weekends when I'm busy
Must not ignore my posts or talk over me
must have a good voice
and be funny
and like walks
Please apply for my townfriend i have a good voice, maybe? i might be funny. i enjoy walks. enough? Rayn who is with you in your scum qt? All of these posts are very bland. Like they're supposed to be banter but it's almost a sea of gray as if GB is forcing(?)/faking(?) the banter. Which just made me more suspicious when he started focusing on Trfel/Damdred straight away. I don't know GB's meta too well so I'm not sure if he's normally this focused or not. The thing is that he did bring two good points on Trfel and Damdred. This combination of not being sure about GB's meta and how he's bringing up good things made me town lean him for a while. But then you have posts like these that just rub me the wrong way because it doesn't make sense to me: Show nested quote +On September 29 2015 21:59 MoosyDoosy wrote:
GB, claiming I'm Mafia when I didn't even explain my reads is bad. Especially when I just entered the thread and didn't have much time to answer questions. Because you claim you didn't explain your reads but you posted this post: Show nested quote +On September 29 2015 21:37 MoosyDoosy wrote:
The problem with this game isn't so much that there are no scum reads, it's that there are too many people I'm not townreading.
- marv is town
- Rels is town
- Damdred is town
- Lightningstrike is town
Only people I'm certain of at this point.
Oh yeah, GB is town lean. hm...rayn is scum lean. AFTER this post: Show nested quote +On September 29 2015 12:28 MoosyDoosy wrote:On September 29 2015 12:20 rsoultin wrote:On September 29 2015 12:14 MoosyDoosy wrote:
Well, no one has struck out to me as Mafia immediately, so I’m just waiting for a good case on someone to sheep. Not to mention, Shining and coolTLname haven’t posted yet, and the GB/rayn question remains up in the air. I don’t feel like going into sicklucker/J Roc today because I feel that’ll settle itself over time. dunno how I feel about marv. you still only got one townread? might want to get on that if you plan on being a sheeplermuffin, especially with the one townread you have why is he town? something more concrete than your earlier read on me, please and also i want your vote >> give it me LS is town for attempting to do what I managed to accomplish (redirecting the thread seriously). Eh, tone reasons and blah. Damdred looks town. Emotional Damdred over having his posts ignored although his reactions to his own shenanigans were strange at the start. rsoul is very sadly, unfortunately, i may have been on the wrong track, town. Managed to glean her direction and she's drawing the conclusions that make her look like town! rsoul. everyone else is kind of a null. I'm sure I can manage to stir something up to get more reads though. It's worthy to note that the nulls should sort themselves out. Mainly GB/rayn and J Roc/sicklucker. No way to read Shining/coolTLname/Rels. Don’t know how to read marv or Trfel. And no I refuse to give you my vote ma’am. TLDR You said GB was bad for calling you scum when you didn't even explain your reads but you explained your reads before making that list with no explanations. And you went from idk how to read Marv to Marv town. That's the only unexplained one att. This is a fairly long post. For the conclusion of "I'm on the fence". No questions for MoosyDoosy either. I'm not sure what the purpose is for town to post this. Furthermore, the point that The Shining gives about MoosyDoosy's post to GlowingBear shows a lack of thought. MoosyDoosy makes a reads post on several people in the thread and then leaves for 11 hours and 9 minutes. When he comes back, he makes a read post with four certain town reads, one scum lean, and one town lean, but he doesn't explain them. After this post, GlowingBear says that MoosyDoosy is mafia, and MoosyDoosy says it's bad that GlowingBear would call him mafia instead of waiting for his reasons for these reads. The Shining's argument is that MoosyDoosy already explained his reads in the other post that he quoted. Only two of the six people mentioned in MoosyDoosy's later post were people that MoosyDoosy had given a read on in his earlier post. This is something that The Shining should always see. The only explanation is that The Shining was rushed through this. So back to the original question, why is The Shining making this post? A long analysis post with no conclusion and no questions isn't terribly useful, except as perhaps a point of discussion or to share thoughts to be followed up on later (except The Shining doesn't talk about MoosyDoosy or follow up on this at all, more on that later). But the analysis is rushed and therefore has a flaw. The Shining entered the thread late. He apologized for his late entrance and being busy. This post feels like a post made to get townread, not a post made to find scum, as it doesn't really have much purpose (especially without the followup) and is rushed.
- The Shining's followup to his early series of posts suggests that he's playing to get townread, not to find scum
+ Show Spoiler +On September 30 2015 09:57 The Shining wrote:
Moosy and Trfel are question marks for me that I won't give a read on until I'm done filter diving them. This is why The Shining was filter diving MoosyDoosy. You would expect him to filter dive me next. He doesn't. The Shining was townread by many people for his first series of posts. On September 30 2015 12:05 sicklucker wrote:
shining is so town it hurts. never seen him post before let alone a post that big when he bizzy On September 30 2015 12:27 Damdred wrote:
Hi, shining is pretty towny good guy so far.
On September 30 2015 12:27 rsoultin wrote:
dododo
recreating town circles
-gathers truffle, shining and damdy into the fold- ^^
brain trust! \o/
not lynching moosy, rayn or sl today...i think i'll add cool here...he smells of newbie newness
ye i'm being female...so sue me
i think i actually want to lynch into rels, marv and scott
on whims, magic, and gut feels And after this, The Shining's effort level and analysis drops off. He's busy, he's phone posting, I get it. It's not a 100% argument, but it is still suspicious. There is a followup section to this argument later. Note to self, did he ever filter dive me? Did he ever post an analysis post like the MoosyDoosy one again?
- Push on coolTLname doesn't feel natural
+ Show Spoiler +This section has two parts. The second is much more important than the first.
I think that this point is an opinion, and it's hard to explain. To me, there were several points that people had to lynch coolTLname, and The Shining spent most of his time talking about his own reason that he was suspicious of coolTLname (that coolTLname said he would check marvellosity's past games and never did). I don't find this point terribly interesting, especially after it's been mentioned a few times, since then if coolTLname does go back and check marvellosity's past games there's the "he just did it to be townread!" argument. Basically, there's no point for The Shining to keep bringing this point up, not over all of the other points that have been brought up. And then when coolTLname says that marvellosity is irrelevant, which makes a fair amount of sense from his perspective if you are willing to actually try and understand what he's saying instead of just reading the words, The Shining seems to use that as a reason to be even more suspicious of coolTLname. I don't see The Shining using critical thinking here, it seems like he's trying to invent his own reason to join the coolTLname wagon. However, this is an opinion, and I can understand how people disagree.
The more interesting thing here is what DOESN'T happen. Here's the vote count at the time that The Shining returns to the thread. rsoultin (4): Trfel, marvellosity, raynpelikoneet, scott31337 GlowingBear (3): rsoultin, Damdred, coolTLname Trfel (2): LightningStrike, sicklucker coolTLname (2): Rels, GlowingBear raynpelikoneet (1): MoosyDoosy If he had time, you would expect him to read my filter, which he hasn't done yet. But even that aside, he should be interested in the pushes on rsoultin and GlowingBear. In my summary of the thread sentiment/direction at the time, I cited those as the main wagons. The Shining does say that he thinks that rsoultin is still town, just for different reasons. But he never seems to check the reasons that marvellosity and raynpelikoneet had for pushing rsoultin, which I could have expected him to do. I don't think he looks at the reasons for the GlowingBear lynch at all either. He never gives a new read on GlowingBear. When raynpelikoneet votes for LightningStrike, The Shining asks him why. However, The Shining doesn't seem very interested in actually lynching LightningStrike, despite being suspicious of him for the entire game. I don't see any drive from The Shining to investigate LightningStrike at all here. Since The Shining says here that coolTLname and LightningStrike can't be mafia together, one would expect him to be much more interested in LightningStrike's alignment, given that he's lynching coolTLname. Furthermore, after the Day 1 lynch, The Shining spends several posts exlaining to coolTLname why he is 100% mafia. This doesn't make sense from a town standpoint at all.
- After Day 1, The Shining seems content to follow the thread sentiment and I don't see him putting in the effort that I would expect from him as town
+ Show Spoiler +On October 02 2015 06:18 The Shining wrote:I believe in cool. I need to revisit the RSo cases but your last summary post of her actions are starting to make me wonder, if its all true. This wouldn't be the first time I hard towned scum RSo =/ but her play that game was different. LS is questionable/bad town at best, scum at worst but I still live in a world where both him and cool can't be scum. =/ LS sheeped onto cool and idk if he's confident enough as scum to bus D1. And yeah Moosy is/should be on that list, too, if LS or cool were to flip town. So he basically just agrees with raynpelikoneet's reads. And he admits that he never really investigated if raynpelikoneet's reasons for scumreading rsoultin were good or not, which he really should have given some attention to as town. He also doesn't seem very interested in looking into LightningStrike's alignment, which as previously explained, is very important since he is scumreading coolTLname and he says that they can't be scum together. It also feels like The Shining follows the thread sentiment with regards to MoosyDoosy. He's apparently on the fence on MoosyDoosy for all of Day 1 and Night 1, but never bothers to engage other people in discussing MoosyDoosy (despite at one point listing this as his third strongest suspicion). When thread sentiment shifts clearly to suspecting MoosyDoosy, The Shining shifts with it. As Day 2 starts, The Shining's push on MoosyDoosy looks much better, but the original shift of suspicion with the thread sentiment feels mafia motivated. Furthermore, this progression doesn't make sense. First he says that he's voting for coolTLname and coolTLname should have been lynched on Day 1. Then he says that he doesn't like auto lynches and Day 2 shouldn't be an auto lynch day (I don't see him doing anything at all to help with this, note to self, does he ever look into actually lynching anyone other than coolTLname?). Finally, he says this to coolTLname. On October 02 2015 11:51 The Shining wrote:
OK srsly please stop this. This is your 2nd give up post, and we still have 40+ hours left in this day phase. Instead of asking if anyone remembers who asked about you too hunting, why not use your time to find it yourself? How many times are you going to declare your innocence but then do jack shit about it? This reads like a scum post just trying to get people to waste time on shit we dont need to waste time on.
And it wasn't me that said you were role hunting but thanks for trying to pin that on me. -1 CoolTLname has been The Shining's top scum read for the entire game. It's the thing he's most consistent on throughout his filter. His scumread on coolTLname has been strong enough for The Shining to not want to lynch LightningStrike, his other consistent scumread throughout his filter. But here, he's talking to coolTLname as if coolTLname is town (I admit that I generally don't like this argument, but here it seems stronger). He's telling coolTLname how to play a better town game while calling him scum twice. And getting frustrated at his strongest scumread for being scummy. I could understand this if The Shining seemed to doubt coolTLname's alignment, but he doesn't. I don't think he really looks into anyone else after this (note to self, check this), in which case this post has no place in a town mindset. On October 03 2015 04:40 The Shining wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2015 11:59 MoosyDoosy wrote:
did anyone notice he literally revokes everything he said and did in that post of his... Actually yeah wow this. Bah Moosy can be town, there's no way we keep having mind melds like this. This is a very strange post, but there isn't that much mafia motivation for The Shining to post this (some, but not a significant amount). I'll leave this here as a note for anyone who wants to try and investigate more. On October 03 2015 05:05 The Shining wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2015 14:04 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Trfel which one of us do you believe is right? Did Trfel ever answer this? All I saw was him saying he thought cool was town and that their talk was getting nowhere. After saying he'd lynch cool because even if he's town because he's not helpful to town. That's a weird progression and considering I think rayn is town and cool is scum, it seems pretty weird to not take a side here or even analyze what the arguments they had against each other were. Okay, so he's a bit suspicious of me (Trfel) as well. He does eventually look into my alignment, which is good for him, but he never finishes with this. Also, note that he doesn't seem to look at LightningStrike at all, despite noticing that raynpelikoneet argued that LightningStrike and coolTLname can be mafia together. He just says that he's interested in raynpelikoneet's argument, but doesn't follow up on the argument itself or on LightningStrike.
ConclusionThe Shining only used filter diving analysis twice in the game (early Day 1 on MoosyDoosy, and mid Day 2 on Trfel). Along with his read progression, he seems to be playing more to get townread instead of to find mafia. He also shows that his mindset is not a town mindset on several occasions. meh truffle...i really don't want to bash on something that obviously took a lot of work, but i'm not really sure how these things make him scum when he's had limited time. and he often has limited time. i don't really remember a game where he hasn't? I meant to clarify that, but I forgot to... When I say a lack of effort, I don't mean time. I'm not saying that from a town standpoint he should be doing more, just that he should be doing different things. It's not that he isn't spending enough time on the game, or isn't making enough posts, it's that he's not doing the things that would be natural for him to do as town.Town with limited time is still going to do towny things with that limited time. ??? honestly i just don't get it -_- what things are you expecting him to do, exactly? is the problem he didn't read your filter near EoD when you weren't being lynched? or...yeah I must have explained this really poorly....
I looked at The Shining's filter through the "busy" perspective. I looked at it through the "phone posting" perspective. They don't explain his play. I mean, they do a little, but nowhere near all of it.
I only have two possible explanations for how The Shining can be town here. First is that I'm a complete total idiot. Second is that The Shining and I have radically different ideas for town play, and while I haven't noticed this to be true in the past, I suppose it is possible.
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The Shining's first post on MoosyDoosy is not a town post. The motivation for that post is to get townread, not to find out MoosyDoosy's alignment. This is not a 100% read, but it is still strong.
The Shining's level of independent analysis goes down as he gets townread. This is strange, since he was busiest at the start of the game, when he was doing the most actual analysis (his MoosyDoosy read).
The Shining joins the coolTLname wagon without looking at the other wagons at all. This doesn't seem to be a time issue, as he says he will look at the other wagons, and then doesn't. He also makes a lot of posts around this time period, but I don't see him trying to solve the game. There is a slight possibility that this is a phone posting issue, however he doesn't do things that he said he would, so this seems unlikely.
He doesn't follow up on things that he said he would follow up on, when they are most important. His play in Day 2 is extremely inconsistent both with regards to read progression and approach to the game.
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I'm not getting the impression that people have actually read The Shining's filter.
Or that people care (rsoultin being the exception, if you want to look at it, I provided general points, mafia motivation, and certainty levels towards the top of the page, it's roughly the same order as the explanation of the specifics and the details in the case itself, and please feel free to look at The Shining's filter and see it for yourself).
Have fun lynching town.
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On October 04 2015 04:59 rsoultin wrote:
where did truffle go? :/ I'm here.
I guess you actually wanted a response to your last post?
The second point was based on The Shining's claim that he can't play on Mondays and Tuesdays, and right after that was when he did most of the analysis work he did this game.
As for the other point, I'm not entirely sure what you were meaning. The Shining was suspicious of LightningStrike all game, I would expect The Shining to care more. Especially since he didn't seem 100% convinced that coolTLname is scum (and still doesn't).
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On October 04 2015 05:05 rsoultin wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2015 05:03 Trfel wrote:On October 04 2015 04:59 rsoultin wrote:
where did truffle go? :/ I'm here. I guess you actually wanted a response to your last post? The second point was based on The Shining's claim that he can't play on Mondays and Tuesdays, and right after that was when he did most of the analysis work he did this game. As for the other point, I'm not entirely sure what you were meaning. The Shining was suspicious of LightningStrike all game, I would expect The Shining to care more. Especially since he didn't seem 100% convinced that coolTLname is scum (and still doesn't). ummm he very clearly said in his filter that he thought cool was more likely to be scum than ls, and he didn't think they could be scum together? and what i'm asking is what you consider to be "analysis". to me analysis is any post that is working to figure out alignments, and that's practically his entire filter. are you referring to case-building? I guess by "analysis" I mean filter diving, not just looking at posts in the thread.
I get that he said that he thought coolTLname was more likely to be scum than LightningStrike, but I don't see him questioning LightningStrike or being interested in his alignment at all.
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On October 04 2015 05:09 MoosyDoosy wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2015 05:08 coolTLname wrote:
I know! its because underneath all your anger, you actually think i could be town and ur waiting until i flip to save energy. :D If you're alive, you're a liability to town. Also find it funny that you're the sc2mafia role mechanics dude and you don't know what a roleblocker is. What do you think about The Shining?
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On October 04 2015 05:10 MoosyDoosy wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2015 05:10 Trfel wrote:On October 04 2015 05:09 MoosyDoosy wrote:On October 04 2015 05:08 coolTLname wrote:
I know! its because underneath all your anger, you actually think i could be town and ur waiting until i flip to save energy. :D If you're alive, you're a liability to town. Also find it funny that you're the sc2mafia role mechanics dude and you don't know what a roleblocker is. What do you think about The Shining? Shining is worth looking into if coolTL is scum. Why not if coolTLname is town?
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On October 04 2015 05:10 rsoultin wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2015 05:08 Trfel wrote:On October 04 2015 05:05 rsoultin wrote:On October 04 2015 05:03 Trfel wrote:On October 04 2015 04:59 rsoultin wrote:
where did truffle go? :/ I'm here. I guess you actually wanted a response to your last post? The second point was based on The Shining's claim that he can't play on Mondays and Tuesdays, and right after that was when he did most of the analysis work he did this game. As for the other point, I'm not entirely sure what you were meaning. The Shining was suspicious of LightningStrike all game, I would expect The Shining to care more. Especially since he didn't seem 100% convinced that coolTLname is scum (and still doesn't). ummm he very clearly said in his filter that he thought cool was more likely to be scum than ls, and he didn't think they could be scum together? and what i'm asking is what you consider to be "analysis". to me analysis is any post that is working to figure out alignments, and that's practically his entire filter. are you referring to case-building? I guess by "analysis" I mean filter diving, not just looking at posts in the thread. I get that he said that he thought coolTLname was more likely to be scum than LightningStrike, but I don't see him questioning LightningStrike or being interested in his alignment at all. yeah i just don't see it the same way, truffle. the filter-diving point may be a point...i haven't verified that...but shining seemed interested in ls' alignment? he questioned him, for one He made three posts of actual discussion with LightningStrike. Just three, I counted.
Compare this to his discussion with coolTLname. Maybe LightningStrike has just not been present at all, or at least not at the same times as The Shining, but the contrast is pretty incredible. The Shining doesn't really seem interested in discussing LightningStrike's alignment with others, either. Note how he discusses things with other people at other times, like how he was trying to find people to talk about his read on me with. But never for LightningStrike.
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I feel like Damdred is probably mafia.
It's getting increasingly difficult for me to wait on reading him.
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On October 04 2015 05:20 Damdred wrote:
You can't give a good reason why.
Maybe trfel is scum and cool is just a newb Look, Damdred, please just work with me. I want to work with you, I really do. I don't like the way that you have been refusing to work with me and seem to be just trying to spite me.
I'm not going to scumread you, I'm not going to townread you, I'm trying to assume that you are town. You're a very good player and I respect your abilities very much, and I realize that I may very well be wrong, I just wish that you would treat me with some element of respect as a person who is trying to solve the game.
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On October 04 2015 05:21 rsoultin wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2015 05:17 Damdred wrote:
I think its interesting trfel starts going on about shining after shining started looking at him.
Tgeres also that thought that mafia hasn't tried to push off cool lynch ever, now there is a concentrated push by trfel and GB and a few others. Idk if it means much but its interesting lol >< this reminds me of my talk with trfel several months ago about how he has a bias against people scumreading him ^^ Yeah, I didn't realize the extent that The Shining was looking at me with I started the case. Also, The Shining didn't even conclude that I was mafia.
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Sicklucker, do you have any ability to infer things at all?
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On October 04 2015 05:45 Rels wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2015 05:35 sicklucker wrote:On October 04 2015 05:30 Damdred wrote:
I'm pretty damn sure shining is town though. do you understand what rayn is saying tho dandred? it kind of proves there making up there read on you 100%. This does not say anything about your alignment but listen. Coolt should know hes town. trefel thinks coolt is town. Yet they both scum read you. This makes no sense because in that world (where you are mafia) You counterclaim when its town/town wagon. like you would never do this and especially trefel is a good enough player to know this. Trefel is fucking making shit up I don't understand this He's saying that I am mafia for saying that Damdred is mafia when he can't possibly be mafia.
Note that this is what he is saying, not what actually happened. Anyone reading ought to be able to figure out what actually happened, which honestly is far more worrisome for me.
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On October 04 2015 05:49 Rels wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2015 05:46 Trfel wrote:On October 04 2015 05:45 Rels wrote:On October 04 2015 05:35 sicklucker wrote:On October 04 2015 05:30 Damdred wrote:
I'm pretty damn sure shining is town though. do you understand what rayn is saying tho dandred? it kind of proves there making up there read on you 100%. This does not say anything about your alignment but listen. Coolt should know hes town. trefel thinks coolt is town. Yet they both scum read you. This makes no sense because in that world (where you are mafia) You counterclaim when its town/town wagon. like you would never do this and especially trefel is a good enough player to know this. Trefel is fucking making shit up I don't understand this He's saying that I am mafia for saying that Damdred is mafia when he can't possibly be mafia. Note that this is what he is saying, not what actually happened. Anyone reading ought to be able to figure out what actually happened, which honestly is far more worrisome for me. Ok but why the rayn bit at the beginning. Whatever I read your damdred scumread as frustration ? Because raynpelikoneet made the argument that if coolTLname and someone else are both town, I forget who, then Damdred has to be town.
I don't have a Damdred scumread. I don't have a Damdred read.
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I am so close to snapping..............
Seriously, have fun with your mislynch. I can't tolerate this any more.
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I just remembered, sicklucker doesn't post at night 
I'm happy again ^^
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On October 04 2015 06:01 sicklucker wrote:
Trefel your not town man. My logic is sound if you were town you would agree and say you made a mistake suggesting dandred is mafia. Your mafioso deflecting genious. Please try using your brain.
If you don't know what that is, it's inside of your head.
If you don't know what that is, then I don't know what to say.
Now please just SHUT UP.
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I'm starting to doubt my scumread of The Shining 
For the reason that I could very well just be being really stupid. I still see his play as being mafia motivated, but it feels like there might be other explanations.
I still think he's a much better lynch than coolTLname.
I guess I'll look into MoosyDoosy and Rels sometime.
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EPT
