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Message Blazinghand if you request a ban please ^_^
Also when the game you're sitting out is over! |
United Kingdom36156 Posts
On November 18 2015 20:16 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2015 20:08 marvellosity wrote:
Personally my thoughts about the ban system (if we're being srs) are that it's used too punitively. This infraction or that infraction means you have to get this number of games or whatever. I think 95%+ of the time i have argued about bans, i have argued to lessen whatever the ban was. marv2softie
Where I do think the ban list is useful is keeping certain toxic attitudes out of games, serious, repeat ones like Robik. I don't really read your posts you've been making in this thread since your ban and thought "well, we made a mistake keeping this guy out of our games, didn't we?". The shittier your posts have been and get, the better a decision it looks to keep you out of games. The banlist was intented to be a tool to improve future games. But then it became something to punish people if they broke elementary rules that don't affect future games at all. But then it became something to punish people if they broke elementary rules that don't affect future games at all really harshly if the judges don't like them and ignore people they like or if the hosts/judges feel lazy. Nothing that happens here is to make future games better. Nothing.
if you're so imbalanced that weeks and weeks after it happens you're calling everyone retards and fuckers and shitters and whatever else... by your own metrics, do you think people should be looking at what you say and thinking that we need you playing in our games? Cmon Koshi.
let's say your ban was horrendously unfair, does any of this help anyone at all? Cookie?
It's like you were jailed for a murder you never committed and your response was to go on a serial killing spree in prison to prove that you weren't a murderer
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The only game I was a jackass in on purpose was XXX.
That ippo game? I probably was very polite that game, I am not sure cuz I can't read filters here but don't think it was bad.
For the amount of games I played I am pretty sure I am not very toxic in them. Sometimes I just join the toxicity as I don't have a problem with it, instead of trying to stop it.
Maybe sometimes I am "toxic" but for sure it is within limits. Over the years it is very fine.
But a 4 game ban that got reduced to 3 for mildly complaining about a shitty modkill? No ty.
What a joke. 4 games. After all the games I played here.
But the people who wrongly modkill or get correctly get modkilled for breaking the rules are not even mentioned in this banlistthread. That is supposed to make the games better.
THE SYSTEM WORKS.
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TAIWAN NUMBAH WAN5955 Posts
Damn I ran out of popcorn, this is too good 
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btw,
I got banned in April. Never said anything bad about it.
I come back in August/September or something because I saw that my ban was reduced to 1. At least that is how it looked, so I decided to sit a game out, and I see that I got removed from the banlist. (My name was off, I saw it)
So I play in the following games. Just to get notified I can't play in the next games because suddenly I got those 2 extra games again.
That started all this. Not my ban, not anything.
The fact I left for 6 months, I saw I got banned for 1 game, I sat out a game, I showed good behavior in the following 2 games even though host fucked up (ofc), and then I GOT 2 FUCKING MORE BANS? AND A PIECE OF SHIT EBOLA CANCEROUS TRASHER WHO IS TAUNTING ME?
Fuck my life. Fuck this thread.
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On November 18 2015 20:42 ShiaoPi wrote:Damn I ran out of popcorn, this is too good
Going for the dramaqueen award this year.
Make sure to nominate + vote
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On November 18 2015 20:09 Koshi wrote:
People talk after deadline (they thought they were dead) and confirm themselves town --> get modkilled --> No ban --> No complains
Alakaslam talks after he died -> Doesn't affect the game --> 2 game ban and some wanted life time ban
I agree that the system is in place to make future games better.
Dead people talking in thread, especially after getting access to the obs QT, is affecting the game. We don't want it to happen in future games.
Regarding Slam's case, the number of games is 2 because:
- Slam did something rule breaking and game relevant (talking after death)
- he did it again after being warned not to do it
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Koshi, if imbalance in how bans are applied is this important to you and makes you this upset, you may want to reconsider participating on this site. I can't imagine it's good for your blood pressure.
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On November 18 2015 19:52 Koshi wrote:
Fact is:
You made a fucking huge mistake Onegu and I mildly flamed you for it ingame. Which is against the rules.
So you modkilled me, and then gave me a 3 game ban. Then you proceeded to modkill a total of 4 people that game I think. Maybe 1 more, maybe 1 less.
1 guy who didn't follow 1 rule got a 3 game ban. 3 guys who didn't follow 1-2 rules got a 0 game ban.
Same for so many other games. People blatantly don't follow the rules and get no ban, no warnings.
BUT THE FUCKER WHO DARED TO POINT OUT A HOST MADE A FUCKING SHITTY MISTAKE.
KILL THAT BITCH WITH ALL THE FIRES.
The problem with your whole logic is that the ban length is heavily influenced by previous warnings/bans and you completely ignore that. I am not saying that all bans were correct the way they were issued because I can't evaluate those of games I didn't read but it's not as easy as comparing ban lengths for different people.
On November 18 2015 20:42 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2015 20:42 ShiaoPi wrote:Damn I ran out of popcorn, this is too good Going for the dramaqueen award this year. Make sure to nominate + vote
Your campaign is impressive.
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Yet I am not yet nominated nor have I received 1 vote.
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This game is finally over [T][M] Resistance V - Section 31
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yeah so...just for the record, as one of the people whose decision to go on hiatus for at least the school semester in part because of drams and rayn wearing me down...
i still disagree with the precedent that banning for that post sets. i don't see the point in rayn's him vs. bh campaign -flicks rayn- but i do think that if we start getting that subjective about behavioral bans there will be issues here with people being treated differently when posting essentially the same things. why? cause all hosts see things differently and we're all human, and yes, all biased toward or against certain people on the site, even if only subconsciously.
short of something really glaring (i.e. robik and i still probably wouldn't have reacted as strongly as y'all did and I was on the receiving end) i don't think this sort of thing should ever make it to the ban thread. he got out of hand in the game. he was modkilled after being warned. the end.
obviously it's up to y'all, but please consider the precedent. everyone says stupid, angry things in the moment. are we really going to start nitpicking this? if it gets out of hand and warnings are given, i'm in favor of modkills to bring things back into line, but the thought police bit is a step too far imo
oneg + rsoul = 4 cents ^^
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On November 18 2015 19:44 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2015 15:17 Onegu wrote:
My 2 cents.
We are getting to harsh. What I have read of rayn was it bad, sure, was it ban worthy I dont think so. Behavior bans should be only given out to people like robik.
Rayn you knew you were pushing the limit. And the fact that you knew you were is kinda fucked up.
F word dude. You gave 1 warning and then a modkill right. I dont think this is enough. First step is warning in thread, second step is a PM to try to calm things down. Then a modkill with maybe even another warning. The post you banned for wasnt ban worthy imo. First off that post isnt something you would warn for. The only reason it is bad was because he was warned already. But that doesn't matter. The post you banned him for wasnt out of line in language at all.
I think we are going to far in banning people. Yes this is coming from the guy who banned koshi. But he was warned in thread 2 times and in PM's 2 times before I banned him. If you PM'd rayn when he made that post you banned him for and was like. Rayn you are pushing me and you know you are pushing me. I like you but you need to chill out or I will modkill you and go for a ban. And when I go for a ban you have previous bans your ban will be very long. This is your final warning, I wont let you test my authority anymore. If you go back into the thread with anything that could be considered warnable will result in your immediate modkill and ban. 1 time in the thread. 2 "times" in PMs Dnu why you need to lie about that lol. + Show Spoiler +Original Message From Onegu: Youve been modkilled Show nested quote +Original Message From Koshi: You are a joke. There is nothing to fucking talk about. Have fun modkilling another 10 people in this game. Because people will forget to fucking vote in the night. Not this night. But the next one. Or the one after that Or the one after that And you fucking ruined your game. And now you can't fucking not modkill anybody anymore. It's over. Game is fucking done for me. Original Message From Onegu: If you want to bitch at me in PMs I am happy to hear you out. This is my first time hosting. But if your going to keep shiting up the thread we are going to have a problem. I apoligize. I will be 100% honest with you I didnt see he voted in thread. If I had I wouldnt have modkilled him. But its over now. Keep it up in thread we will have a problem. In PM land Im happy to hear you out. Original Message From Koshi: That DOESN4T HELP WHEN THEY ARE AFK NOW DOES IT??????? HAVE YOU EVER HEARD OF WARNINGS???? WHAT DID ALAKASLAM DO THAT AFFECTED THE GAME THAT HE NEEDED TO GET MODKILLED???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? He forgets to vote which didn't affect anything. AND YOU KILL YOUR MAIN CHARACTER AND A 22 HP TOWNIE. WHAT A JOKE. Original Message From Onegu: Dude we sent warnings to everyone not voteing hours before deadline. Original Message From Koshi: What post game??????????????????????????????????????????????????? There is nothing to talk about. FUCKING LEARN TO WARN Original Message From Onegu: post game Original Message From Koshi: There is no excuse for this kinda hosting. 0 fucking excuse. Fucking should have warned. You ruined your own game. Pathetic. Original Message From Onegu: I put it in the replacement thread nobody responded Original Message From Koshi:
Do you even know that replacements exist? My modkill could have happened, could also not have happened. Dnu what would have happened after a night of sleep. Fact is. I got a 3 game ban for a modkill that affected that game just as fucking much as a guy who forgot to vote, and you modkilled 3(?) people for that? But NOBODY GOT A SINGLE BAN OR WARNING except me, I got all the days ban for all the modkilled people together or what? Same shit with BH, he modkills 4 people in 1 game, replaces 2 people, and then bans 1 guy.... WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN SOMEBODY RUINING THE GAME BY 1) Being a host and making mistakes in set-up, wrong modkills, etc 2) Not giving a single fuck and afk, not vote, etc 3) Not following a rule and getting modkilled 4) Being emotional, about the fuck ups, about others, about language, yourself, pressure etc Because in the end all 4 change the outcome of a game drastically, but only the emotional people who most of the time are invested in the game get insane fucking bans. It's a fucking joke. But the system works guys. Really. Great job.
Not sure why you think I am lying. I was told to modkill you alot sooner than I did by multiple people. And I sent you a pm saying Post game, and then a long PM saying to talk to me in PM land and that if you didnt there were going to be problems and you went right back into the thread. This is more than Rayn got or do you disagree. Also I feel you were alot more combative than rayn was. The post Rayn was banned for while he shouldnt have posted it and knows he shouldnt have posted it, it wasn't that bad as BOYCOTT THE FUCKING GAME.
Also people were warned for my game. I wasnt going to warn because I felt I was harsh in the modkills but they did end up getting warnings.
Koshi you flaming a host and then not stopping when told multiple times is completely different, then being told one time and then making a post that was a quote of someone that had no harsh language in it at all. The worst part of that is where he makes his next post saying lets see where this gets me. It should have got him a PM saying any more action will be a modkill and a multiple game ban.
If you want to give hosts bans for fucking up that is something that can and maybe should be looked at. But that doesnt change the fact that you were given the opportunity to stop and I even let you keep complaining to me as long as it was in PM land.
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On November 18 2015 22:19 rsoultin wrote:
yeah so...just for the record, as one of the people whose decision to go on hiatus for at least the school semester in part because of drams and rayn wearing me down...
i still disagree with the precedent that banning for that post sets. i don't see the point in rayn's him vs. bh campaign -flicks rayn- but i do think that if we start getting that subjective about behavioral bans there will be issues here with people being treated differently when posting essentially the same things. why? cause all hosts see things differently and we're all human, and yes, all biased toward or against certain people on the site, even if only subconsciously.
short of something really glaring (i.e. robik and i still probably wouldn't have reacted as strongly as y'all did and I was on the receiving end) i don't think this sort of thing should ever make it to the ban thread. he got out of hand in the game. he was modkilled after being warned. the end.
obviously it's up to y'all, but please consider the precedent. everyone says stupid, angry things in the moment. are we really going to start nitpicking this? if it gets out of hand and warnings are given, i'm in favor of modkills to bring things back into line, but the thought police bit is a step too far imo
oneg + rsoul = 4 cents ^^
Miss rsoultin spam. And dont ever come talk to me anymore I see how it is.
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Sticking to straight mod actions and precedent I don't know or recall of a behaviour based modkill that didn't result in a post-game ban unless such things occurred before when I started on TL (Oct 2014).
That said I don't understand the 5 games mentioned by Onegu as Russia Today (disclaimer: this is from memory) was his last behaviour ban and that was a year ago and his last non-behaviour ban was post-Guardians of the Galaxy which was April. I thought there was a time lapse that accounted for reduction of specific number of games.
Not to mention Fidei called for one game. The hosts made their basis known, and if people want to argue the basis is flawed, then that's on (now) Foolishness to sort out. It's also not uncommon to get a second opinion and I've consulted other moderators at times on second opinions for various decisions; others have also approached me for the same.
Unless I'm grossly misinterpreting the formula or forgetting other incidents in between, one game is fine.
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On November 18 2015 22:19 rsoultin wrote:
yeah so...just for the record, as one of the people whose decision to go on hiatus for at least the school semester in part because of drams and rayn wearing me down...
i still disagree with the precedent that banning for that post sets. i don't see the point in rayn's him vs. bh campaign -flicks rayn- but i do think that if we start getting that subjective about behavioral bans there will be issues here with people being treated differently when posting essentially the same things. why? cause all hosts see things differently and we're all human, and yes, all biased toward or against certain people on the site, even if only subconsciously.
Yeah, but the fact is you are at least as abrasive towards me in games than i am towards you. We both call each other stupid and idiots when we disagree with each other, which happens a lot. Just because (apparently) you are more sensitive to aggressive arguments towards you doesn't mean ME doing that to you is any different than YOU doing that to me. Yes, you are just as pain in the ass to play with for me than i am for you -- but that has nothing to do with either of us doing something out of the line. Either we work out our differences in how we view the game or decide to not play with each other (which you did). Both are fine conclusions, but just because you decided to not play with me anymore it doesn't make it my fault. It really doesn't, since i don't actually say anything personally offensive to you in games, in fact you do that alot more than i do. In Drams, or Topical Storm, i actually never personally offended you -- if you took something personally, then you did. But what i did is i actually used game-related evidence to call you mafia.
The problem is people cannot see that. Just because i aggressively push people who i think are scum doesn't make me "out of line". And i seriously do act reasonably towards people who are reasonable. I don't call people assholes before they do that to me. And when they do, i assume they think that is something that is fine.
I am still waiting for that list of players who have quit the community because of me from HtS.
Let's put something concrete behind her words and discuss it.
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On November 19 2015 01:44 Onegu wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2015 19:44 Koshi wrote:On November 18 2015 15:17 Onegu wrote:
My 2 cents.
We are getting to harsh. What I have read of rayn was it bad, sure, was it ban worthy I dont think so. Behavior bans should be only given out to people like robik.
Rayn you knew you were pushing the limit. And the fact that you knew you were is kinda fucked up.
F word dude. You gave 1 warning and then a modkill right. I dont think this is enough. First step is warning in thread, second step is a PM to try to calm things down. Then a modkill with maybe even another warning. The post you banned for wasnt ban worthy imo. First off that post isnt something you would warn for. The only reason it is bad was because he was warned already. But that doesn't matter. The post you banned him for wasnt out of line in language at all.
I think we are going to far in banning people. Yes this is coming from the guy who banned koshi. But he was warned in thread 2 times and in PM's 2 times before I banned him. If you PM'd rayn when he made that post you banned him for and was like. Rayn you are pushing me and you know you are pushing me. I like you but you need to chill out or I will modkill you and go for a ban. And when I go for a ban you have previous bans your ban will be very long. This is your final warning, I wont let you test my authority anymore. If you go back into the thread with anything that could be considered warnable will result in your immediate modkill and ban. 1 time in the thread. 2 "times" in PMs Dnu why you need to lie about that lol. + Show Spoiler +Original Message From Onegu: Youve been modkilled Show nested quote +Original Message From Koshi: You are a joke. There is nothing to fucking talk about. Have fun modkilling another 10 people in this game. Because people will forget to fucking vote in the night. Not this night. But the next one. Or the one after that Or the one after that And you fucking ruined your game. And now you can't fucking not modkill anybody anymore. It's over. Game is fucking done for me. Original Message From Onegu: If you want to bitch at me in PMs I am happy to hear you out. This is my first time hosting. But if your going to keep shiting up the thread we are going to have a problem. I apoligize. I will be 100% honest with you I didnt see he voted in thread. If I had I wouldnt have modkilled him. But its over now. Keep it up in thread we will have a problem. In PM land Im happy to hear you out. Original Message From Koshi: That DOESN4T HELP WHEN THEY ARE AFK NOW DOES IT??????? HAVE YOU EVER HEARD OF WARNINGS???? WHAT DID ALAKASLAM DO THAT AFFECTED THE GAME THAT HE NEEDED TO GET MODKILLED???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? He forgets to vote which didn't affect anything. AND YOU KILL YOUR MAIN CHARACTER AND A 22 HP TOWNIE. WHAT A JOKE. Original Message From Onegu: Dude we sent warnings to everyone not voteing hours before deadline. Original Message From Koshi: What post game??????????????????????????????????????????????????? There is nothing to talk about. FUCKING LEARN TO WARN Original Message From Onegu: post game Original Message From Koshi: There is no excuse for this kinda hosting. 0 fucking excuse. Fucking should have warned. You ruined your own game. Pathetic. Original Message From Onegu: I put it in the replacement thread nobody responded Original Message From Koshi:
Do you even know that replacements exist? My modkill could have happened, could also not have happened. Dnu what would have happened after a night of sleep. Fact is. I got a 3 game ban for a modkill that affected that game just as fucking much as a guy who forgot to vote, and you modkilled 3(?) people for that? But NOBODY GOT A SINGLE BAN OR WARNING except me, I got all the days ban for all the modkilled people together or what? Same shit with BH, he modkills 4 people in 1 game, replaces 2 people, and then bans 1 guy.... WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN SOMEBODY RUINING THE GAME BY 1) Being a host and making mistakes in set-up, wrong modkills, etc 2) Not giving a single fuck and afk, not vote, etc 3) Not following a rule and getting modkilled 4) Being emotional, about the fuck ups, about others, about language, yourself, pressure etc Because in the end all 4 change the outcome of a game drastically, but only the emotional people who most of the time are invested in the game get insane fucking bans. It's a fucking joke. But the system works guys. Really. Great job. Not sure why you think I am lying.
1 does not equal 2.
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And for the people who cannot read this thread either -- i am not contesting the ban proposed to me.
I think it is a correct decision, and i have no complaints about it.
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I sorta didn't want to come into this thread and type anything, but the lure of popcorn and drama just can't be fought.
I think that there is an intrinsic difference in how people(mods) react towards others in games, based on a preconceived notion of that player.
I do think Rayns ban in this instance is appropriate and I really doubt that he himself would contest the ban as he knows in this case that he went over the line a decent bit.
However the whole issue that rayn brings forward with bias towards certain players vs what I would call a blind eye towards others is justifiable.
For example the last game I played, I was a total shit head to marv and we both more than likely crossed the line to some varying degrees. I am not sure about Marv in that instance but I know that I did not receive a behavioral warning even though I know that I deserved one if not straight up mod kill for overall instigating a fight to some sense (this could go either way as we both instigated each other to some extent). But did not receive anything in the way of punishment. I could perhaps quote several games where I infact went over the "line" and deserved to be mod killed, either to confirm myself town even if inadvertent or just being a shit head in general like I was towards GB because he refused to get off his tunnel. Never was I even warned for that monstrosity of the game when I was super toxic.
Rayn while aggressively pushing people as mafia does the exact same thing, he fights with people calls names just like all of us. However if Rayns name was Damdred or if it was Marv or various other players who don't have a stigma attached to there names I really doubt that he would get so much flak.
This isn't to say that all hosts let people slide, BH doesn't let anything slide. JAT/Kel being mod killed for small reasons, and I have been warned several times in BH games, so I will say that Bh is at least fair across the board. But most hosts aren't and it is a bit frustrating for the player base to have to deal with.
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On November 19 2015 01:54 Half the Sky wrote:
Sticking to straight mod actions and precedent I don't know or recall of a behaviour based modkill that didn't result in a post-game ban unless such things occurred before when I started on TL (Oct 2014).
That said I don't understand the 5 games mentioned by Onegu as Russia Today (disclaimer: this is from memory) was his last behaviour ban and that was a year ago and his last non-behaviour ban was post-Guardians of the Galaxy which was April. I thought there was a time lapse that accounted for reduction of specific number of games.
Not to mention Fidei called for one game. The hosts made their basis known, and if people want to argue the basis is flawed, then that's on (now) Foolishness to sort out. It's also not uncommon to get a second opinion and I've consulted other moderators at times on second opinions for various decisions; others have also approached me for the same.
Unless I'm grossly misinterpreting the formula or forgetting other incidents in between, one game is fine.
According to OP it doesn't matter what type of ban it is. This is his 3rd ban in the time frame meaning a 5 game ban.
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It is ridiculous that Rayn can potentially get a 5 game ban for a 1 game offense.
That is so broken its not even funny.
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EPT
