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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
e.g. On June 18 2015 02:33 Holyflare wrote: you definitely haven't read the thread then please, I've read the entire thread and the fact that I cannot come to a conclusion as to why people think BF is scummy is more of an indication of the shittiness of the push than me not reading. Since you agree with me on GB why don't we just kill him instead of BF or LS, both of whom I think are bad lynches today? | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
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wherebugsgo
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and he apparently has a "case" on breshke coming up? On June 19 2015 01:11 GlowingBear wrote: Good god bugs, I thought you were good HF you should know by now that I'm town says the dude that is chiding others for not helping to consolidate yet is willing to lynch like 6 different people | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On June 18 2015 15:16 GlowingBear wrote: I've reevaluated him later, he looks like town Onegu. ah yes, this post. I must have missed it. | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On June 19 2015 01:20 Holyflare wrote: Don't understand is entirely different to not knowing what it is. Your case is the latter which is bs if you've read the thread. I've made the case on him abundantly clear. You even just hosted a game with him in it and he's totally different from that. that's actually hilarious because internally that was one of the reasons I was considering him town. I don't think he is totally different from how he was playing in that game, but I didn't bother to use that as a reason because it's not really one that is easily qualifiable. If you actually think he is playing differently here you have no idea how to use meta. | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On June 19 2015 01:28 Holyflare wrote: Answer these: Have you or have you not read the thread? If answer is yes, how on earth do you miss the repeated pushes I've made on him? All you've said is surface level crap of 'i read his filter and think he's town" while saying nothing as to the reason why and nothing about the case on him, nothing about how he's done absolutely nothing and when corrected does absolutely nothing some more. No way. yes. I didn't miss shit. I am simply pointing out how I think there is no real reason to lynch bf. Being able to summarize something after you've read it requires a different type of content. Basically, your posts don't stand out to me because they don't really point out things I necessarily agree with, with the exception on some of the things you said about GB. Admittedly it's also really hard to pay attention to everything when the game gets inflated by 500 posts while I was asleep and away from the thread. This prompted me to reread btw, with your filter side by side. You actually didn't really post on BF that much, which is probably why I remember you arguing with rsoultin more than bf. In fact one of the posts is just a quote of two of your previous posts (one of which was just a response to rsoultin) followed by a quote of your own vote. Beyond that you don't really do anything except inflate the impression that you are pushing him a lot and completely ignoring anything that could lead to the idea that BF is town. In particular if you just read this response to you here: On June 18 2015 05:17 boxerfred wrote: I'm saying that the fact that you know how your meta appears does make it impossible to let your meta speak for you. Especially if you point that out. My logic might be flawed but I feel like if you yourself know how you appear in town games, it's really easy for you to make the same appearance in a scum game, especially if your meta seemingly consists of joking around and making nonsense day 1. That alone does not make it scummy, yes, but the fact that you point towards your meta as an indicator of your town alignment means that you use your meta to your purpose which does indeed appear scummy to me. I don't know what line you refer to with the bolded part. The line I quoted came immediately after the huge post I quoted so that's why I took it into context. For me it looked (and looks) like you we answering to this post and I did not like the way you did it at all. And well, I learned by now that it is easily possible to horribly misread someone so I'm saying that yes, while I interpret your meta mentioning as scummy, it is very well possible that I am wrong and your play up to my post simply says "Yes, I'm town." All those things are indicators and rather weak points, I followed that up with a vote for two reasons: a) I only looked into Kelsier and you at this point b) I wanted to see your reactions to this post. So off of this reaction, I feel like it's an emotional response. It feels genuine. I like that. No matter what you think was scummy about any of BF's posts, this one should wipe them all out. He actually confronts you and responds to you in a manner that no new scum ever would do under the face of that kind of suspicion. He uses really fucking weird logic but that doesn't make him scum, just bad. That's no surprise given that this dude has played like 3 games up to this point. Given his open honesty and forthright perspective upon what made him actually post that stuff I don't see how you can still think he is scum. He admittedly hasn't done anything aside from that post and a couple of others but his attitude is fine and his opinions make sense from a new town perspective. I think the only thing scummy about him is that he hasn't come back yet but that can easily be explained by the fact that this game looks like it will easily surpass 2000 posts before the end of today. Indeed even though we only have 4 more players than both Witchcraft and the game I hosted, this game already has more posts than witchcraft (which includes the endgame!) and it is on par to exceed my game as well pretty soon. My game was a 4 cycle affair and in it boxerfred did not post as much and did not have much motivation to post given how people treated him, so I wouldn't be at all surprised if he feels the same here, in a situation where we have like 3x the posting activity. | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
or, you know, the fact that this is a retarded opinion if you are town and actually incredibly indicative that you are scum Let's break it down. From a GB=town perspective first: it's not at all helpful because you eliminate entire possibilities when scumhunting and you invite scum to be more active by saying, "oh if you're more active we won't lynch you!" Townies, on the other hand, are not going to give a shit because they will continue to play like they will play and they could honestly not give a fuck what a player like you thinks. Indeed this is one of the biggest problems with using surface-level things like activity to attempt to scum hunt because you end up shooting yourself in the foot. You maybe catch the low activity scum if you are lucky or manage to use other clues to find them but it is incredibly rare that you can nail an entire team or even a significant portion of a team that way. It certainly wouldn't have worked in the game we played in together where you were scum, where all 3 scum members were active (AND YOU SHOULD FUCKING KNOW THAT IF YOU ARE TOWN) whereas town almost mislynched into some dude that was going to get modkilled anyway, and all the other lynch candidates would obviously not have flipped town like Shockey and Shining and Tubesock and whoever else was in that game and was scummy. So, if you are town in this game GB you should stop pushing anti town things and pushing like 7 different people with no reasons. On the other hand if you imagine this from a GB=scum perspective this is actually really great for GB scum to say this. If GB scum says we're only lynching inactives, it's easy to get town support because no one likes inactives. Reading active people is hard so it's really easy to fake scum reads on inactive players. Indeed this fits best with GB's style this game because he asserts he is "reaction fishing" when in reality this is just a thin veil to look for town sentiment. Similarly in the previous game where he was scum, GB was more than willing to let LS, his scum teammate, live on day 1 but instead he wanted to push someone like Stutters who wasn't doing shit. Why else would he ask me whether I would lynch VA randomly yet offer none of his own thought process? This in particular is very scummy because he was the one that prodded me for not providing opinions, yet when I do he offers absolutely nothing in return! At no point did GB actually make any sort of reasonable attempt to work with me despite claiming to want to do so. Indeed, he actually undermines what I am doing by saying that I am not attempting to get town to consolidate yet being the biggest offender by far of the very things he is accusing others of doing. Lastly, the whole "we're not going to lynch actives" thing is great for his scum style because as he proved in the last game, he is a very active scum player. When pushing the idea that we shouldn't lynch active players because it's a bad idea, he's masking his own style as scum because he himself is an active scum player. It's merely a stone that he is using to knock out multiple birds at once-it's a play in his own self interest in multiple ways. That coupled with his complete lack of reads and reasons this game pretty much confirms he is scum. | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On June 19 2015 01:57 GlowingBear wrote: This vote count is scary.9 WTF??? What the fuck does that mean? You're one of the voters of BF | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
if you are town do you legitimately find these posts useful? Like, maybe I should just continue ignoring you even though I think you are more likely to be town now, but I would say you are one of the top 3 reasons this thread is so huge and full of useless posts, like, for example this one. Antagonizing people for reactions might be useful but just doing it just to do it is completely pointless if you are town. I realize this may sound weird coming from me, one of the most aggressive players on the forum, but I'm pretty sure the reason that some of these players in this game aren't posting is because there are so many posts in this game and so many of them from you in particular are hostile. | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On June 19 2015 02:09 NydusHerMain wrote: I want to swap this to a bw on onegu but at the same time I'm okay with a bf lynch. @bugs what's there not to get about what gb said? He's uneasy despite being one of the voters because it's got so many people voting on it whereas no one else is really up for vote consideration in comparison. Gonna throw this out there and see if it sticks. ##Vote: onegu If not, I'm fine with bf regardless. what doesn't make sense is the fact that he is uneasy about the lack of consolidation yet he does exactly what he claims is making him uneasy. He doesn't attempt to consolidate and instead his reads are constantly changing and he's adding new people he thinks are scum all the time. e.g. why would he bother to say that he's going to write up a case on breshke? I feel if that actually gets posted it's going to derail the thread even further rather than give us any further indication on who is scum. Given that his vote is on BF I would expect him to try to convince the rest of us to consolidate on BF, because that's what he says he expects other people to be doing-consolidating. It's also nearly impossible to know what he thinks because he refuses to work to flesh out reads despite claiming that it is what he wanted to do with me. He asked me maybe 2-3 one liner questions that ended up going nowhere because when I responded to him he gave nothing in return. That's quite odd for someone who claimed that collaboration is important in getting together a strong town day 1. If he unvotes BF and ends up voting someone else this will pretty much prove what I'm talking about. He might OMGUS me or maybe he'll go through with his statement on Breshke but even now it doesn't appear that he was genuine about his talk about consolidation and about his talk about collaboration. | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
from then on he tried to see if he could undermine my opinion by calling me scum and then eventually had to back off. | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On June 19 2015 02:32 GlowingBear wrote: Sheesh. I should actually reason my opinions. Bugs you're scum because last game you were very inclined to lynch lurkers or at least tried to put pressure in them. You start doing that here (voting Mig). Then you completely forget the lurkers. Now I am proposing we should go against lurkers, and you are calling me scum for that, which makes no sense. More than that, you said Mig was the only one you played together with, which means you have a good grasp of his gameplay. You started the game by voting him. He came back to the thread and I have no idea what you think of him. You didn't push him, you didn't try to work with him. You simply ignored him, which is very contradictory with your opening in this game. Also, you're one to overestimate meta. You're calling me scum but you didn't even try to read my previous games. I said once: "I do this since Avogadro". I would expect you to go take a look at least into that game. You're not doing it. For someone that says that IDENTITY plays a big part in your reads, you're not caring at all for mine before calling me scum. In other words, your discourse doesn't match your current gameplay. wat I didn't try to lynch lurkers last game. This is a complete lie. I DEFENDED stutters, but of course you would not choose to remember that because you are scum. also lol @ the meta shit, it takes a huge amount of time to read meta properly and I have been calling you scum for maybe two hours now. If you are really town you wouldn't even consider me scum this game given all that I have done, but of course you aren't seeing reason. Or maybe I'm just wrong and you are so terrible that you can't hold proper reads simply because you don't know what proper reads are-perhaps that's why you smurfed last game, because you are bad and everyone knows how terrible you are. However I don't think anyone with as many games as you can possibly be that bad to call me scum this game. | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On June 18 2015 23:24 wherebugsgo wrote: Mig is pretty terrible as scum and a couple of his posts are actually pretty decent. They appear to be indicative that he is actually reading, which is a good sign. Mig is one of those players where if it looks like he is not reading he's probably scum. Even though he doesn't post much, as town he tends to make sense whereas when he is scum his reads aren't generally logically sensible. For example he pointed out that GB had no proper scum reads 55 pages in which is actually a pretty astute and subtle point. Like, sure, GB called some people scum but at no point in the game did he actually do anything about them-most of the time he's fishing for sentiment (e.g. asking me about VA) and in the LS case he was like "ok I'm gonna vote him too" and then he backed off at resistance from me. The tone and attitude in this post: also made me feel much better about Mig because as I mentioned his mafia play is pretty shitty and this came off really strongly. I don't think scum Mig would make a post with this kind of bold response. here I responded to rsoultin's question on Mig. Saying that I've ignored him is wholly disingenuous and another reason GB is scum. | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On June 19 2015 02:53 GlowingBear wrote: Well I can be this bad. And I will lynch you anyway, because you suck ooh, I'm so scared, scum GB has threatened to mislynch me! btw nice bluff on the meta thing. It's a good thing I had it in my back pocket and made notes on posts like this: On October 13 2014 00:51 GlowingBear wrote: Ok. Explaining further. You're a town and you saw my post on DP. "Tried to look scum" sounded like I had a blue tell on DP. What would a townie do? 1) Force me into saying who I think is blue 2) Inquire me regarding my other scum read You agree with me it would be (2), or at least never (1), right? But people forced me into saying that I thought DP was blue. So: A) Either you're wrong on saying I was clearly hinting DP was blue or B) It was clear and scum tried to force me into saying I think DP is blue. Therefore, what do you make of people who forced me into giving my blue read on DP? where you actually actively talk to people and reason out things that other people talk about when town, whereas in this game you do jack shit when you vote someone and don't bother giving the slightest indication that you are actually thinking about the game or attempting to solve it using the perspectives of the players you are targetting. That's really apparent when you call people like Breshke and me scum, for example, while your vote is sitting nicely on the biggest wagon in the game. Other interesting things from that game include this post: On October 13 2014 02:40 GlowingBear wrote: I had that kind of meta/gut feeling out of Haru last game (2p2 Werewolf) I was town and I was right on him. It doesn't mean much I've been giving reads and explaining them the entire game. I don't think you guys have strong reasons to call me scum. I'm trying to understand what's happening in the game. where your reaction to being called scum is vastly different from the one here. Instead of OMGUSing you are actually reasonable and you point out how you are attempting to understand what's happening and explaining things, whereas in this game you don't bother to explain anything despite claiming that collaboration is important and discussing reads with townies is important. The best is this one: On October 12 2014 07:27 GlowingBear wrote: Answering damdred: Damdy, the easiest thing for mafia to do is to come early in the thread and try to look contributive until someone townreads him. I did exactly what geript is doing in Mission. I'm more inclined to believe that mafia would be this tryhard at page 1 than town. Throwing votes is town trait. Throwing votes without reasoning, or even saying he doesn't care is scummy to me. But too scummy to be scum. As I said, I don't want to discuss this specific point anymore. Throwing votes without reasoning is scummy, eh? If that's what you believe as town why are you throwing around votes without reasoning in this game? | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On June 19 2015 02:55 GlowingBear wrote: LOL yeah, you ANSWERED a DIRECTED QUESTION. Congrats, you're totally not ignoring someone you SHOULD be interacting with WITHOUT being needed to being asked for. Argh, get out Why the fuck would I comment on a town read when there is literally no reason for me to comment on town reads? In what universe does this make any shred of sense? | ||
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wherebugsgo
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wherebugsgo
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am I completely tunneled on shit town GB or is the fact that his opinions and reads are terrible an indication he is scum this game again? | ||
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wherebugsgo
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On June 19 2015 03:06 GlowingBear wrote: Why are you townreading yamato? why are you making such assumptions? Oh right, cause you're scum | ||
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) or he tried to look as mafia for some reason.
