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okay, whatever...I think I've beaten my point to death and KSC continues to do fuck all except insist that LS is scum. I doubt he is even reading anything at this point, which basically confirms him as mafia.
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Oh god this game has so many posts
Why must life be so hard
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I'm on page 56 atm, GB you asked me about Breshke. I think he looks fine, his play this game has so far to me seemed very similar to his play from last game. He's making sense and I think from seeing his play we can determine if he is scum from the quality of his posts and reads. If his reads in hindsight over the days start making less sense then I would say he's not likely to be town but so far I have found myself nodding when reading his posts. That is not a thing I do very often, most of the time I am shaking my head and going "wtf is this dude thinking" when I read some of the shit people write
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Lohengramm you should tell us who you are. I hate replacements and since you're a smurf you're either good or terrible. Alternatively you can just prove to us that you're not terrible but I really doubt you're going to do that given how sparse your posts have already been, judging from your filter.
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Alright I managed to finish reading...Mig I want to know your read on Damdred right now. You prodded him for reads earlier but I am interested in knowing how his response to you affected your read of him.
Next, can someone kindly explain the BF case to me? Even after having read the entire thread I can't for the life of me understand why people are calling him scum. This is worrying, given that in my own notes I have him leaning fairly townish. On the other hand I can summarize the posts on LS because I think that there were more people to call him scum at various points and he did have the named VT claim, but I really really doubt he is scum.
I'm phone posting right now and I quoted NHM's post to get this reply so I can't really quote anything else but I would actually rather not lynch either of these dudes but instead lynch Kelsier or GB. Kelsier kinda disappeared after a while and although he had one response to me in which he calmed down and attempted to explain his reads he didn't quite do anything in the mean time. That's quite strange given that as town I would have expected him to continue pushing LS if he truly felt so strongly about it. It is very clear there is at least some resistance to LS since he's not even the vote leader angmore, so why is KSC not pushing him as he was earlier? To me that seems really fishy, like he feels he did enough earlier on and now he can slip by.
Then there's GB, who continually does weird things that are very hard for me to explain from a town perspective. The mkst obvious one to me was that it sounded like he wanted to work with me and bounce ideas off me. At first I gave him tentative town points for that on the condition that he actually follown up and make use of my offer. What instead happened is that GB's post quality started declining, and despite me asking him hey why don't we discuss stuff he only asked me one thing which now to me I can't even recall because it seemed so insignificant. Why as town would GB state that he wants to know my reads and then make almost no effort to get them from me? Indeed one thing that HF pointed out is actually really damning and that is the fact that at some point GB refused to give out hisnown reads and he "chastised" me for doing the exact same thing. That's a very scummy thing for someone who thinks giving out reads as town is a good thing.
Finally this could be completely irrelevant but the way he "dares" people to call him scum in some of his posts (by saying "Am I scum?" for whatever reason to me comes off as really forced. It's true that scum would be wary of clashing attitudes but even in the last game GB showed awareness of common scum tropes and took advantage of that, e.g. defending his buddy when he knew it was likely to cause him to take a lot of attention.
On June 18 2015 13:24 NydusHerMain wrote:Curious bugs. Knowing I'm not a smurf, would you rate me as a better player 
Idk regardless of your alignment this game you appear to post better than at least half of the playerbase
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I see I have been ninjaed.
Re: LS, I didn't defend LS prior to the claim because I myself was unsure of his alignment at that point. To me he seemed townish but my reasons were not very well qualified and it was mostly on the basis of him not acting in a very similar way to how he did in the last game where he was scum and we got him killed day 1. Indeed here his defense is a lot more passioned whereas in the previous game and in all the other scum games I read in which he got lynched he more or less rolled over and died.
The claim however pretty much instantly erased any doubts I had and that's when I chose to defend him because I knee jubjubs and scum would jump all over that shit to call him scum. The two worst responses IMO were yours and GB, and to a lesser extent Onegu whose only listed reason for voting was policy. IMO people who do not view that claim as a townish thing to do are either mafia or bad, and I really prefer not to assume someone is bad town when they have demonstrated some capability of thinking analytically.
GB's reaction to the claim was really terrible. He flipped his read on LS completely which is not what I would expect town to do simply on the basis of a claim. It also appeared very opportunistic because as soon as I showed resistance he backed off, and curiously tried to get my opinion on another low-hanging-fruit of a player, VA.
What's interesting to me here is that the more that I think on kt and write it out the more I find GB scummy than anyone else. Anyone else down to kill him today?
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On June 18 2015 22:45 yamato77 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 18 2015 22:02 wherebugsgo wrote:
Lohengramm you should tell us who you are. I hate replacements and since you're a smurf you're either good or terrible. Alternatively you can just prove to us that you're not terrible but I really doubt you're going to do that given how sparse your posts have already been, judging from your filter. No u
Wanna lynch GB with me?
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Also another thing I want to point out that is subtle but was missing from his posts last game is that LS clearly demonstrates an escalation of emotion as more and more people suspect him. Last game his self defense sucked because his emotion was flat the entire time he was eating votes. Here he actually legitimately appears to be getting more frustrated as people call him scum. Not only does this make sense from his perspective if he is town, it's one of those things I would put in the "near impossible" tier as far as fakeability when scum.
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On June 18 2015 23:02 rsoultin wrote:
Nh
Who cares really?
That's prob enough to remove lohen from my d1 list as a replacement though
Do I have to vote you wbg to get you to answer my questions on your read change? I'd rather not cause while I disagree strongly on ksc, your points on gb were decent
Also at all you lovelies wanting to kill someone you think is town...isn't that what like cop/vig roles are for? Would make more sense if most people thought he was scum don't really get it
Also just random thought...I figured out what's bugging me about damdy. Tells ls he's got his back but doesn't really marry actions to words. Tryna decide if that's just cause he's upset about his case being ignored or not though
I don't have the time to answer your questions about townreads, in particular my change on you because to me they're irrelevant and not worth the time. In fact, even this to me is a waste of time because I can't believe that I am actually arguing about this. You even considering wasting a vote to get that kind of information to me is really puzzling because I can't see in which world any of that information would be useful to you.
Vote me if you think I am scum, but don't act like any other reason would be a valid one.
On June 18 2015 23:00 KelsierSC wrote:Show nested quote +On June 18 2015 22:55 wherebugsgo wrote:
I see I have been ninjaed.
Re: LS, I didn't defend LS prior to the claim because I myself was unsure of his alignment at that point. To me he seemed townish but my reasons were not very well qualified and it was mostly on the basis of him not acting in a very similar way to how he did in the last game where he was scum and we got him killed day 1. Indeed here his defense is a lot more passioned whereas in the previous game and in all the other scum games I read in which he got lynched he more or less rolled over and died.
The claim however pretty much instantly erased any doubts I had and that's when I chose to defend him because I knee jubjubs and scum would jump all over that shit to call him scum. The two worst responses IMO were yours and GB, and to a lesser extent Onegu whose only listed reason for voting was policy. IMO people who do not view that claim as a townish thing to do are either mafia or bad, and I really prefer not to assume someone is bad town when they have demonstrated some capability of thinking analytically.
GB's reaction to the claim was really terrible. He flipped his read on LS completely which is not what I would expect town to do simply on the basis of a claim. It also appeared very opportunistic because as soon as I showed resistance he backed off, and curiously tried to get my opinion on another low-hanging-fruit of a player, VA.
What's interesting to me here is that the more that I think on kt and write it out the more I find GB scummy than anyone else. Anyone else down to kill him today? so you were unsure of LS aswell and I was pushing him hard calling him scum. Then when he makes a horrible claim you are surprised that I still think he is scum? You also said that I "didn't quite do anything else" and I "kinda disappeared" I explained I was looking at other people in the game at that point but I didn't leave anyone in doubt what I felt about LS. Can you actually explain what you mean by this in a more concrete way without hedging
Why is it that every time you post something in response to someone you manage to mangle or misread it completely?
Just because I said I was unsure on LS prior to the claim it does not mean I found him scummy. You say he made a horrible claim, which I agree. The fact that you think it is alignment indicative (of LS being scum, no less) is the reason I think you are scum. Your only reasoning for the claim being indicative of LS being scum is "horrible" while I have consistently pointed out why it makes no sense from a scum PERSPECTIVE. You are obviously not this stupid so my best assumption here is that you are purposely choosing to refuse to back down because you are scum and flipping your read at this point would be too dangerous. That also makes sense in the context of the fact that you are not actually really pushing LS as I would expect a townie to push him. That's what I mean by you didn't do anything and that you disappeared, because for a long time you were not in thread, and as BF has gained more suspicion you haven't done anything to convince other people that they should vote LS over BF. Unless of course you think they are both scum, which I think is preposterous in itself.
On June 18 2015 23:07 rsoultin wrote:
Hey wbg on phone and no comp access till much later. Show me the read.change from gb i'm quotes please?
His last scum game he was very focused on others reads on him as well and I was getting deja vu yesterday but a read switch would be much more damning I think
Take a look at this:
On June 17 2015 07:42 GlowingBear wrote:
The SUPER AWESOME PRELIMINARY READS LIST REGARDING THE FIRST 3 PAGES OF THE THREAD
Probs town
LS
Nydus
Probs mafai
Boxerfred
Onegu
Yeah. This little.
One of his first posts, it appears he felt pretty strongly about LS early on because he was one of the only players he bothered posting about.
And again, not too long after:
On June 17 2015 08:52 GlowingBear wrote:ANOTHER PRELIMINARY READ LIST OF THE FIRST HOURS OF THE GAME Probs townKelsier Breshke LS Nydus(?) Probs mafaiOnegu Boxerfred Bugs Ritoky Someone I want to spank for treating me bad  Rsoultin
On June 17 2015 11:51 GlowingBear wrote:Actual Listpost v1.0 Probs town... - LS (a lot of activity early game, enough to grant him a day1 pass IMO)
... Probs Mafia- Onegu (unnecessary need to claim VT ESPECIALLY after he was scumread for not claiming VT in a previous game + meta: town onegu is lazy and I don't see him giving himself the trouble to going into another game to paste an opening where he claimed VT as town + Onegu prefers playing as scum and he was too excited for rolling VT, meanwhile in the other game he was extremely upset he rolled VT)
- boxerfred (opening is a joke post commenting another joke post and fucking off of the thread)
boxerfred
The interesting thing here is that he has onegu and LS on opposite sides, yet he doesn't react to onegu voting LS later...
then, after the claim:
On June 18 2015 04:38 GlowingBear wrote:
Ok I'm voting LS too
as soon as I start defending him right then and there really hard, GB does this:
On June 18 2015 04:46 GlowingBear wrote:Show nested quote +On June 18 2015 04:41 wherebugsgo wrote:On June 18 2015 04:38 GlowingBear wrote:
Ok I'm voting LS too wtf why are you jumping so hard on this opportunity to lynch an obvious townie are you scum again? Explain to me why he is obvious townie Explain to me why obvious townie would claim named VT when, well, he is obvious townie?
then this, in which he actually doesn't really take an opinion one way or another which to me was pretty strange:
On June 18 2015 04:54 GlowingBear wrote:Show nested quote +On June 18 2015 04:50 wherebugsgo wrote:On June 18 2015 04:49 ritoky wrote:On June 18 2015 04:48 wherebugsgo wrote:On June 18 2015 04:46 GlowingBear wrote:On June 18 2015 04:41 wherebugsgo wrote:On June 18 2015 04:38 GlowingBear wrote:
Ok I'm voting LS too wtf why are you jumping so hard on this opportunity to lynch an obvious townie are you scum again? Explain to me why he is obvious townie Explain to me why obvious townie would claim named VT when, well, he is obvious townie? he wasn't necessarily obvious townie prior to the claim but any and all doubts should have been erased to people who understand the slightest thing when it comes to town/mafia motivation when he ended up claiming. He had 1 vote and was in no serious threat of being lynched and yet he blue claimed on day 1. What kind of scum move would that be? It literally makes 0 sense from a scum perspective, especially when we all know how bad LS's scum play is. You say too dumb to be scum. They say too anti-town to be town. Onegu says stop doing this, going to lynch you every time. people say "too anti-town to be town" when they really mean "I think that play was stupid and you deserve to die for it" That kind of mentality literally ignores all possible motivational reads because it doesn't involve motivation at all and is simply a surface-level misinterpretation of what is going on. Try to think through it from the perspective of LS being scum and it makes no sense at all for him to do that I can see scum LS panicking when a single vote is casted on him and claiming named VT because this role has no night power (easy to claim) and it's not a common role (low chances of counter claiming) It doesn't make sense from a town perspective either.
and then finally he does this:
On June 18 2015 04:54 GlowingBear wrote:
Alright bugs, could we lynch VA?
He also said some lie about blue claiming being in LS's meta which he claimed was some sort of test for what my response would be but it seemed forced to me.
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On June 18 2015 23:13 rsoultin wrote:
God im scattered today sorry.
Also read on mig wbg since you know him better and wanted him to post. I'm a sucker for logic. Can he post like this as scum?
Mig is pretty terrible as scum and a couple of his posts are actually pretty decent. They appear to be indicative that he is actually reading, which is a good sign.
Mig is one of those players where if it looks like he is not reading he's probably scum. Even though he doesn't post much, as town he tends to make sense whereas when he is scum his reads aren't generally logically sensible. For example he pointed out that GB had no proper scum reads 55 pages in which is actually a pretty astute and subtle point. Like, sure, GB called some people scum but at no point in the game did he actually do anything about them-most of the time he's fishing for sentiment (e.g. asking me about VA) and in the LS case he was like "ok I'm gonna vote him too" and then he backed off at resistance from me.
The tone and attitude in this post:
On June 18 2015 08:37 Mig wrote:
Gbs plan is to try and look scummy, contribute nothing and then if you discuss anyone besides him calls you suspicious. Solid.
Do you actually believe any of my posts are coming from a mafia mindset Gb? Or are you just trying to paint me poorly since I actually questioned your posts.
also made me feel much better about Mig because as I mentioned his mafia play is pretty shitty and this came off really strongly. I don't think scum Mig would make a post with this kind of bold response.
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##unvote
##vote GlowingBear
I don't think LS or BF is a good lynch for today. LS is definitely among the worst possible lynches we could have and it doesn't appear to me that there are good reasons to lynch BF. You all should read my posts on GB in the past few pages.
I also think KSC could be scum still but I'm less confident on my rereads than GB because GB has demonstrated some really strange behaviour with respect to his "reads" and the way he handled things like the LS claim, my defense of it, and his fishing for sentiment on lynching low hanging fruit like VA, Lohengramm, and Shockeyy.
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anyway sorry rsoultin, I don't mean to be antagonistic. However i don't think divulging a lot of town reads is a good idea. I'm okay with specific questions (e.g. the one on Mig) but things like "why did you flip your read on me" are not things I'm going to bother to answer because sometimes I don't have great reasons that can be externalized. On reread I actually see that you probably have some of the same sentiment, since you had that toneread on Damdred that I didn't quite understand and you didn't really feel like explaining either.
Since we appear to have some similar mindsets maybe it's best we work together.
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On June 18 2015 23:28 KelsierSC wrote:Show nested quote +On June 18 2015 23:20 wherebugsgo wrote:On June 18 2015 23:02 rsoultin wrote:
Nh
Who cares really?
That's prob enough to remove lohen from my d1 list as a replacement though
Do I have to vote you wbg to get you to answer my questions on your read change? I'd rather not cause while I disagree strongly on ksc, your points on gb were decent
Also at all you lovelies wanting to kill someone you think is town...isn't that what like cop/vig roles are for? Would make more sense if most people thought he was scum don't really get it
Also just random thought...I figured out what's bugging me about damdy. Tells ls he's got his back but doesn't really marry actions to words. Tryna decide if that's just cause he's upset about his case being ignored or not though I don't have the time to answer your questions about townreads, in particular my change on you because to me they're irrelevant and not worth the time. In fact, even this to me is a waste of time because I can't believe that I am actually arguing about this. You even considering wasting a vote to get that kind of information to me is really puzzling because I can't see in which world any of that information would be useful to you. Vote me if you think I am scum, but don't act like any other reason would be a valid one. On June 18 2015 23:00 KelsierSC wrote:On June 18 2015 22:55 wherebugsgo wrote:
I see I have been ninjaed.
Re: LS, I didn't defend LS prior to the claim because I myself was unsure of his alignment at that point. To me he seemed townish but my reasons were not very well qualified and it was mostly on the basis of him not acting in a very similar way to how he did in the last game where he was scum and we got him killed day 1. Indeed here his defense is a lot more passioned whereas in the previous game and in all the other scum games I read in which he got lynched he more or less rolled over and died.
The claim however pretty much instantly erased any doubts I had and that's when I chose to defend him because I knee jubjubs and scum would jump all over that shit to call him scum. The two worst responses IMO were yours and GB, and to a lesser extent Onegu whose only listed reason for voting was policy. IMO people who do not view that claim as a townish thing to do are either mafia or bad, and I really prefer not to assume someone is bad town when they have demonstrated some capability of thinking analytically.
GB's reaction to the claim was really terrible. He flipped his read on LS completely which is not what I would expect town to do simply on the basis of a claim. It also appeared very opportunistic because as soon as I showed resistance he backed off, and curiously tried to get my opinion on another low-hanging-fruit of a player, VA.
What's interesting to me here is that the more that I think on kt and write it out the more I find GB scummy than anyone else. Anyone else down to kill him today? so you were unsure of LS aswell and I was pushing him hard calling him scum. Then when he makes a horrible claim you are surprised that I still think he is scum? You also said that I "didn't quite do anything else" and I "kinda disappeared" I explained I was looking at other people in the game at that point but I didn't leave anyone in doubt what I felt about LS. Can you actually explain what you mean by this in a more concrete way without hedging Why is it that every time you post something in response to someone you manage to mangle or misread it completely? Just because I said I was unsure on LS prior to the claim it does not mean I found him scummy. You say he made a horrible claim, which I agree. The fact that you think it is alignment indicative (of LS being scum, no less) is the reason I think you are scum. Your only reasoning for the claim being indicative of LS being scum is "horrible" while I have consistently pointed out why it makes no sense from a scum PERSPECTIVE. You are obviously not this stupid so my best assumption here is that you are purposely choosing to refuse to back down because you are scum and flipping your read at this point would be too dangerous. That also makes sense in the context of the fact that you are not actually really pushing LS as I would expect a townie to push him. That's what I mean by you didn't do anything and that you disappeared, because for a long time you were not in thread, and as BF has gained more suspicion you haven't done anything to convince other people that they should vote LS over BF. Unless of course you think they are both scum, which I think is preposterous in itself. On June 18 2015 23:07 rsoultin wrote:
Hey wbg on phone and no comp access till much later. Show me the read.change from gb i'm quotes please?
His last scum game he was very focused on others reads on him as well and I was getting deja vu yesterday but a read switch would be much more damning I think Take a look at this: On June 17 2015 07:42 GlowingBear wrote:
The SUPER AWESOME PRELIMINARY READS LIST REGARDING THE FIRST 3 PAGES OF THE THREAD
Probs town
LS
Nydus
Probs mafai
Boxerfred
Onegu
Yeah. This little. One of his first posts, it appears he felt pretty strongly about LS early on because he was one of the only players he bothered posting about. And again, not too long after: On June 17 2015 08:52 GlowingBear wrote:ANOTHER PRELIMINARY READ LIST OF THE FIRST HOURS OF THE GAME Probs townKelsier Breshke LS Nydus(?) Probs mafaiOnegu Boxerfred Bugs Ritoky Someone I want to spank for treating me bad Rsoultin On June 17 2015 11:51 GlowingBear wrote:Actual Listpost v1.0 Probs town... - LS (a lot of activity early game, enough to grant him a day1 pass IMO)
... Probs Mafia- Onegu (unnecessary need to claim VT ESPECIALLY after he was scumread for not claiming VT in a previous game + meta: town onegu is lazy and I don't see him giving himself the trouble to going into another game to paste an opening where he claimed VT as town + Onegu prefers playing as scum and he was too excited for rolling VT, meanwhile in the other game he was extremely upset he rolled VT)
- boxerfred (opening is a joke post commenting another joke post and fucking off of the thread)
boxerfred The interesting thing here is that he has onegu and LS on opposite sides, yet he doesn't react to onegu voting LS later... then, after the claim: On June 18 2015 04:38 GlowingBear wrote:
Ok I'm voting LS too as soon as I start defending him right then and there really hard, GB does this: On June 18 2015 04:46 GlowingBear wrote:On June 18 2015 04:41 wherebugsgo wrote:On June 18 2015 04:38 GlowingBear wrote:
Ok I'm voting LS too wtf why are you jumping so hard on this opportunity to lynch an obvious townie are you scum again? Explain to me why he is obvious townie Explain to me why obvious townie would claim named VT when, well, he is obvious townie? then this, in which he actually doesn't really take an opinion one way or another which to me was pretty strange: On June 18 2015 04:54 GlowingBear wrote:On June 18 2015 04:50 wherebugsgo wrote:On June 18 2015 04:49 ritoky wrote:On June 18 2015 04:48 wherebugsgo wrote:On June 18 2015 04:46 GlowingBear wrote:On June 18 2015 04:41 wherebugsgo wrote:On June 18 2015 04:38 GlowingBear wrote:
Ok I'm voting LS too wtf why are you jumping so hard on this opportunity to lynch an obvious townie are you scum again? Explain to me why he is obvious townie Explain to me why obvious townie would claim named VT when, well, he is obvious townie? he wasn't necessarily obvious townie prior to the claim but any and all doubts should have been erased to people who understand the slightest thing when it comes to town/mafia motivation when he ended up claiming. He had 1 vote and was in no serious threat of being lynched and yet he blue claimed on day 1. What kind of scum move would that be? It literally makes 0 sense from a scum perspective, especially when we all know how bad LS's scum play is. You say too dumb to be scum. They say too anti-town to be town. Onegu says stop doing this, going to lynch you every time. people say "too anti-town to be town" when they really mean "I think that play was stupid and you deserve to die for it" That kind of mentality literally ignores all possible motivational reads because it doesn't involve motivation at all and is simply a surface-level misinterpretation of what is going on. Try to think through it from the perspective of LS being scum and it makes no sense at all for him to do that I can see scum LS panicking when a single vote is casted on him and claiming named VT because this role has no night power (easy to claim) and it's not a common role (low chances of counter claiming) It doesn't make sense from a town perspective either. and then finally he does this: On June 18 2015 04:54 GlowingBear wrote:
Alright bugs, could we lynch VA? He also said some lie about blue claiming being in LS's meta which he claimed was some sort of test for what my response would be but it seemed forced to me. LS's play is what makes him scummy, the claim just furthers that point. I don't see a reason for a town to claim there at all. Show nested quote +That also makes sense in the context of the fact that you are not actually really pushing LS as I would expect a townie to push him. That's what I mean by you didn't do anything and that you disappeared, because for a long time you were not in thread, and as BF has gained more suspicion you haven't done anything to convince other people that they should vote LS over BF. Unless of course you think they are both scum, which I think is preposterous in itself. You are just making up reason's to scum read me now. I pushed LS very hard and Everyone was aware of that.
The fact that this is your response to my post doesn't look very good for you.
The effort level, the way you are undermining my opinion by saying I am making up reasons, and the fact that you are misconstruing your own effort and claiming that "everyone was aware of it". It seems like you are very self conscious of how other people are "aware" of your pushes. Why would that be the case if you are town?
If you still think LS is scum why are you okay with him not leading and people actually getting off him now?
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On June 18 2015 23:34 KelsierSC wrote:Show nested quote +On June 18 2015 23:32 wherebugsgo wrote:On June 18 2015 23:28 KelsierSC wrote:On June 18 2015 23:20 wherebugsgo wrote:On June 18 2015 23:02 rsoultin wrote:
Nh
Who cares really?
That's prob enough to remove lohen from my d1 list as a replacement though
Do I have to vote you wbg to get you to answer my questions on your read change? I'd rather not cause while I disagree strongly on ksc, your points on gb were decent
Also at all you lovelies wanting to kill someone you think is town...isn't that what like cop/vig roles are for? Would make more sense if most people thought he was scum don't really get it
Also just random thought...I figured out what's bugging me about damdy. Tells ls he's got his back but doesn't really marry actions to words. Tryna decide if that's just cause he's upset about his case being ignored or not though I don't have the time to answer your questions about townreads, in particular my change on you because to me they're irrelevant and not worth the time. In fact, even this to me is a waste of time because I can't believe that I am actually arguing about this. You even considering wasting a vote to get that kind of information to me is really puzzling because I can't see in which world any of that information would be useful to you. Vote me if you think I am scum, but don't act like any other reason would be a valid one. On June 18 2015 23:00 KelsierSC wrote:On June 18 2015 22:55 wherebugsgo wrote:
I see I have been ninjaed.
Re: LS, I didn't defend LS prior to the claim because I myself was unsure of his alignment at that point. To me he seemed townish but my reasons were not very well qualified and it was mostly on the basis of him not acting in a very similar way to how he did in the last game where he was scum and we got him killed day 1. Indeed here his defense is a lot more passioned whereas in the previous game and in all the other scum games I read in which he got lynched he more or less rolled over and died.
The claim however pretty much instantly erased any doubts I had and that's when I chose to defend him because I knee jubjubs and scum would jump all over that shit to call him scum. The two worst responses IMO were yours and GB, and to a lesser extent Onegu whose only listed reason for voting was policy. IMO people who do not view that claim as a townish thing to do are either mafia or bad, and I really prefer not to assume someone is bad town when they have demonstrated some capability of thinking analytically.
GB's reaction to the claim was really terrible. He flipped his read on LS completely which is not what I would expect town to do simply on the basis of a claim. It also appeared very opportunistic because as soon as I showed resistance he backed off, and curiously tried to get my opinion on another low-hanging-fruit of a player, VA.
What's interesting to me here is that the more that I think on kt and write it out the more I find GB scummy than anyone else. Anyone else down to kill him today? so you were unsure of LS aswell and I was pushing him hard calling him scum. Then when he makes a horrible claim you are surprised that I still think he is scum? You also said that I "didn't quite do anything else" and I "kinda disappeared" I explained I was looking at other people in the game at that point but I didn't leave anyone in doubt what I felt about LS. Can you actually explain what you mean by this in a more concrete way without hedging Why is it that every time you post something in response to someone you manage to mangle or misread it completely? Just because I said I was unsure on LS prior to the claim it does not mean I found him scummy. You say he made a horrible claim, which I agree. The fact that you think it is alignment indicative (of LS being scum, no less) is the reason I think you are scum. Your only reasoning for the claim being indicative of LS being scum is "horrible" while I have consistently pointed out why it makes no sense from a scum PERSPECTIVE. You are obviously not this stupid so my best assumption here is that you are purposely choosing to refuse to back down because you are scum and flipping your read at this point would be too dangerous. That also makes sense in the context of the fact that you are not actually really pushing LS as I would expect a townie to push him. That's what I mean by you didn't do anything and that you disappeared, because for a long time you were not in thread, and as BF has gained more suspicion you haven't done anything to convince other people that they should vote LS over BF. Unless of course you think they are both scum, which I think is preposterous in itself. On June 18 2015 23:07 rsoultin wrote:
Hey wbg on phone and no comp access till much later. Show me the read.change from gb i'm quotes please?
His last scum game he was very focused on others reads on him as well and I was getting deja vu yesterday but a read switch would be much more damning I think Take a look at this: On June 17 2015 07:42 GlowingBear wrote:
The SUPER AWESOME PRELIMINARY READS LIST REGARDING THE FIRST 3 PAGES OF THE THREAD
Probs town
LS
Nydus
Probs mafai
Boxerfred
Onegu
Yeah. This little. One of his first posts, it appears he felt pretty strongly about LS early on because he was one of the only players he bothered posting about. And again, not too long after: On June 17 2015 08:52 GlowingBear wrote:ANOTHER PRELIMINARY READ LIST OF THE FIRST HOURS OF THE GAME Probs townKelsier Breshke LS Nydus(?) Probs mafaiOnegu Boxerfred Bugs Ritoky Someone I want to spank for treating me bad Rsoultin On June 17 2015 11:51 GlowingBear wrote:Actual Listpost v1.0 Probs town... - LS (a lot of activity early game, enough to grant him a day1 pass IMO)
... Probs Mafia- Onegu (unnecessary need to claim VT ESPECIALLY after he was scumread for not claiming VT in a previous game + meta: town onegu is lazy and I don't see him giving himself the trouble to going into another game to paste an opening where he claimed VT as town + Onegu prefers playing as scum and he was too excited for rolling VT, meanwhile in the other game he was extremely upset he rolled VT)
- boxerfred (opening is a joke post commenting another joke post and fucking off of the thread)
boxerfred The interesting thing here is that he has onegu and LS on opposite sides, yet he doesn't react to onegu voting LS later... then, after the claim: On June 18 2015 04:38 GlowingBear wrote:
Ok I'm voting LS too as soon as I start defending him right then and there really hard, GB does this: On June 18 2015 04:46 GlowingBear wrote:On June 18 2015 04:41 wherebugsgo wrote:On June 18 2015 04:38 GlowingBear wrote:
Ok I'm voting LS too wtf why are you jumping so hard on this opportunity to lynch an obvious townie are you scum again? Explain to me why he is obvious townie Explain to me why obvious townie would claim named VT when, well, he is obvious townie? then this, in which he actually doesn't really take an opinion one way or another which to me was pretty strange: On June 18 2015 04:54 GlowingBear wrote:On June 18 2015 04:50 wherebugsgo wrote:On June 18 2015 04:49 ritoky wrote:On June 18 2015 04:48 wherebugsgo wrote:On June 18 2015 04:46 GlowingBear wrote:On June 18 2015 04:41 wherebugsgo wrote:
[quote]
wtf why are you jumping so hard on this opportunity to lynch an obvious townie
are you scum again? Explain to me why he is obvious townie Explain to me why obvious townie would claim named VT when, well, he is obvious townie? he wasn't necessarily obvious townie prior to the claim but any and all doubts should have been erased to people who understand the slightest thing when it comes to town/mafia motivation when he ended up claiming. He had 1 vote and was in no serious threat of being lynched and yet he blue claimed on day 1. What kind of scum move would that be? It literally makes 0 sense from a scum perspective, especially when we all know how bad LS's scum play is. You say too dumb to be scum. They say too anti-town to be town. Onegu says stop doing this, going to lynch you every time. people say "too anti-town to be town" when they really mean "I think that play was stupid and you deserve to die for it" That kind of mentality literally ignores all possible motivational reads because it doesn't involve motivation at all and is simply a surface-level misinterpretation of what is going on. Try to think through it from the perspective of LS being scum and it makes no sense at all for him to do that I can see scum LS panicking when a single vote is casted on him and claiming named VT because this role has no night power (easy to claim) and it's not a common role (low chances of counter claiming) It doesn't make sense from a town perspective either. and then finally he does this: On June 18 2015 04:54 GlowingBear wrote:
Alright bugs, could we lynch VA? He also said some lie about blue claiming being in LS's meta which he claimed was some sort of test for what my response would be but it seemed forced to me. LS's play is what makes him scummy, the claim just furthers that point. I don't see a reason for a town to claim there at all. That also makes sense in the context of the fact that you are not actually really pushing LS as I would expect a townie to push him. That's what I mean by you didn't do anything and that you disappeared, because for a long time you were not in thread, and as BF has gained more suspicion you haven't done anything to convince other people that they should vote LS over BF. Unless of course you think they are both scum, which I think is preposterous in itself. You are just making up reason's to scum read me now. I pushed LS very hard and Everyone was aware of that. The fact that this is your response to my post doesn't look very good for you. The effort level, the way you are undermining my opinion by saying I am making up reasons, and the fact that you are misconstruing your own effort and claiming that "everyone was aware of it". It seems like you are very self conscious of how other people are "aware" of your pushes. Why would that be the case if you are town? If you still think LS is scum why are you okay with him not leading and people actually getting off him now? are you trying to claim my effort level is low? i'm interacting with you right now because I asked you questions and waited for you to show up.
your effort level in responding to me sucks. You choose to misconstrue my posts and in the previous one you picked out only the fact that I said I was unsure instead of reading the rest of the part in which I explained how I had LS leaning town before the claim and why the claim is not an indicator that he is scum. You don't bother addressing any of that.
Your followup on my questions to me doesn't appear to be town motivated because I would expect a townie to at least attempt to understand what I am saying. Instead all you do is undermine my opinions.
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On June 18 2015 23:36 KelsierSC wrote:
As far as i'm aware your scum read of me is because when my scum read, that I had been pushing really hard, made a stupid claim ,that didn't make sense as town, I carried on reading him as scum
then you made false statements that I stopped trying and didn't carry on pushing LS
you are desperately trying to paint scum on me and it just isn't working.
nope
you constantly are calling "stupid claim = scum claim" which is NOT ALIGNMENT INDICATIVE
the fact that you are not ever noticing I am saying that over and over again and not even responding to it is setting off the alarm for me. Instead you constantly say shit like "you're desperately trying to call me scum" and "you made false statements" and "everyone knows I was pushing him" which are all simply things said to undermine an opinion and not indicators in the slightest that you are town and are attempting to analyze this situation from that perspective. Any townie in such a position would have some doubt and not immediately undermine another player's perspective when they offer a counterpoint.
On June 18 2015 23:38 KelsierSC wrote:Show nested quote +On June 18 2015 23:37 wherebugsgo wrote:On June 18 2015 23:34 KelsierSC wrote:On June 18 2015 23:32 wherebugsgo wrote:On June 18 2015 23:28 KelsierSC wrote:On June 18 2015 23:20 wherebugsgo wrote:On June 18 2015 23:02 rsoultin wrote:
Nh
Who cares really?
That's prob enough to remove lohen from my d1 list as a replacement though
Do I have to vote you wbg to get you to answer my questions on your read change? I'd rather not cause while I disagree strongly on ksc, your points on gb were decent
Also at all you lovelies wanting to kill someone you think is town...isn't that what like cop/vig roles are for? Would make more sense if most people thought he was scum don't really get it
Also just random thought...I figured out what's bugging me about damdy. Tells ls he's got his back but doesn't really marry actions to words. Tryna decide if that's just cause he's upset about his case being ignored or not though I don't have the time to answer your questions about townreads, in particular my change on you because to me they're irrelevant and not worth the time. In fact, even this to me is a waste of time because I can't believe that I am actually arguing about this. You even considering wasting a vote to get that kind of information to me is really puzzling because I can't see in which world any of that information would be useful to you. Vote me if you think I am scum, but don't act like any other reason would be a valid one. On June 18 2015 23:00 KelsierSC wrote:On June 18 2015 22:55 wherebugsgo wrote:
I see I have been ninjaed.
Re: LS, I didn't defend LS prior to the claim because I myself was unsure of his alignment at that point. To me he seemed townish but my reasons were not very well qualified and it was mostly on the basis of him not acting in a very similar way to how he did in the last game where he was scum and we got him killed day 1. Indeed here his defense is a lot more passioned whereas in the previous game and in all the other scum games I read in which he got lynched he more or less rolled over and died.
The claim however pretty much instantly erased any doubts I had and that's when I chose to defend him because I knee jubjubs and scum would jump all over that shit to call him scum. The two worst responses IMO were yours and GB, and to a lesser extent Onegu whose only listed reason for voting was policy. IMO people who do not view that claim as a townish thing to do are either mafia or bad, and I really prefer not to assume someone is bad town when they have demonstrated some capability of thinking analytically.
GB's reaction to the claim was really terrible. He flipped his read on LS completely which is not what I would expect town to do simply on the basis of a claim. It also appeared very opportunistic because as soon as I showed resistance he backed off, and curiously tried to get my opinion on another low-hanging-fruit of a player, VA.
What's interesting to me here is that the more that I think on kt and write it out the more I find GB scummy than anyone else. Anyone else down to kill him today? so you were unsure of LS aswell and I was pushing him hard calling him scum. Then when he makes a horrible claim you are surprised that I still think he is scum? You also said that I "didn't quite do anything else" and I "kinda disappeared" I explained I was looking at other people in the game at that point but I didn't leave anyone in doubt what I felt about LS. Can you actually explain what you mean by this in a more concrete way without hedging Why is it that every time you post something in response to someone you manage to mangle or misread it completely? Just because I said I was unsure on LS prior to the claim it does not mean I found him scummy. You say he made a horrible claim, which I agree. The fact that you think it is alignment indicative (of LS being scum, no less) is the reason I think you are scum. Your only reasoning for the claim being indicative of LS being scum is "horrible" while I have consistently pointed out why it makes no sense from a scum PERSPECTIVE. You are obviously not this stupid so my best assumption here is that you are purposely choosing to refuse to back down because you are scum and flipping your read at this point would be too dangerous. That also makes sense in the context of the fact that you are not actually really pushing LS as I would expect a townie to push him. That's what I mean by you didn't do anything and that you disappeared, because for a long time you were not in thread, and as BF has gained more suspicion you haven't done anything to convince other people that they should vote LS over BF. Unless of course you think they are both scum, which I think is preposterous in itself. On June 18 2015 23:07 rsoultin wrote:
Hey wbg on phone and no comp access till much later. Show me the read.change from gb i'm quotes please?
His last scum game he was very focused on others reads on him as well and I was getting deja vu yesterday but a read switch would be much more damning I think Take a look at this: On June 17 2015 07:42 GlowingBear wrote:
The SUPER AWESOME PRELIMINARY READS LIST REGARDING THE FIRST 3 PAGES OF THE THREAD
Probs town
LS
Nydus
Probs mafai
Boxerfred
Onegu
Yeah. This little. One of his first posts, it appears he felt pretty strongly about LS early on because he was one of the only players he bothered posting about. And again, not too long after: On June 17 2015 08:52 GlowingBear wrote:ANOTHER PRELIMINARY READ LIST OF THE FIRST HOURS OF THE GAME Probs townKelsier Breshke LS Nydus(?) Probs mafaiOnegu Boxerfred Bugs Ritoky Someone I want to spank for treating me bad Rsoultin On June 17 2015 11:51 GlowingBear wrote:Actual Listpost v1.0 Probs town... - LS (a lot of activity early game, enough to grant him a day1 pass IMO)
... Probs Mafia- Onegu (unnecessary need to claim VT ESPECIALLY after he was scumread for not claiming VT in a previous game + meta: town onegu is lazy and I don't see him giving himself the trouble to going into another game to paste an opening where he claimed VT as town + Onegu prefers playing as scum and he was too excited for rolling VT, meanwhile in the other game he was extremely upset he rolled VT)
- boxerfred (opening is a joke post commenting another joke post and fucking off of the thread)
boxerfred The interesting thing here is that he has onegu and LS on opposite sides, yet he doesn't react to onegu voting LS later... then, after the claim: On June 18 2015 04:38 GlowingBear wrote:
Ok I'm voting LS too as soon as I start defending him right then and there really hard, GB does this: On June 18 2015 04:46 GlowingBear wrote:On June 18 2015 04:41 wherebugsgo wrote:On June 18 2015 04:38 GlowingBear wrote:
Ok I'm voting LS too wtf why are you jumping so hard on this opportunity to lynch an obvious townie are you scum again? Explain to me why he is obvious townie Explain to me why obvious townie would claim named VT when, well, he is obvious townie? then this, in which he actually doesn't really take an opinion one way or another which to me was pretty strange: On June 18 2015 04:54 GlowingBear wrote:On June 18 2015 04:50 wherebugsgo wrote:On June 18 2015 04:49 ritoky wrote:On June 18 2015 04:48 wherebugsgo wrote:
[quote]
he wasn't necessarily obvious townie prior to the claim but any and all doubts should have been erased to people who understand the slightest thing when it comes to town/mafia motivation when he ended up claiming.
He had 1 vote and was in no serious threat of being lynched and yet he blue claimed on day 1. What kind of scum move would that be? It literally makes 0 sense from a scum perspective, especially when we all know how bad LS's scum play is. You say too dumb to be scum. They say too anti-town to be town. Onegu says stop doing this, going to lynch you every time. people say "too anti-town to be town" when they really mean "I think that play was stupid and you deserve to die for it" That kind of mentality literally ignores all possible motivational reads because it doesn't involve motivation at all and is simply a surface-level misinterpretation of what is going on. Try to think through it from the perspective of LS being scum and it makes no sense at all for him to do that I can see scum LS panicking when a single vote is casted on him and claiming named VT because this role has no night power (easy to claim) and it's not a common role (low chances of counter claiming) It doesn't make sense from a town perspective either. and then finally he does this: On June 18 2015 04:54 GlowingBear wrote:
Alright bugs, could we lynch VA? He also said some lie about blue claiming being in LS's meta which he claimed was some sort of test for what my response would be but it seemed forced to me. LS's play is what makes him scummy, the claim just furthers that point. I don't see a reason for a town to claim there at all. That also makes sense in the context of the fact that you are not actually really pushing LS as I would expect a townie to push him. That's what I mean by you didn't do anything and that you disappeared, because for a long time you were not in thread, and as BF has gained more suspicion you haven't done anything to convince other people that they should vote LS over BF. Unless of course you think they are both scum, which I think is preposterous in itself. You are just making up reason's to scum read me now. I pushed LS very hard and Everyone was aware of that. The fact that this is your response to my post doesn't look very good for you. The effort level, the way you are undermining my opinion by saying I am making up reasons, and the fact that you are misconstruing your own effort and claiming that "everyone was aware of it". It seems like you are very self conscious of how other people are "aware" of your pushes. Why would that be the case if you are town? If you still think LS is scum why are you okay with him not leading and people actually getting off him now? are you trying to claim my effort level is low? i'm interacting with you right now because I asked you questions and waited for you to show up. your effort level in responding to me sucks. You choose to misconstrue my posts and in the previous one you picked out only the fact that I said I was unsure instead of reading the rest of the part in which I explained how I had LS leaning town before the claim and why the claim is not an indicator that he is scum. You don't bother addressing any of that. Your followup on my questions to me doesn't appear to be town motivated because I would expect a townie to at least attempt to understand what I am saying. Instead all you do is undermine my opinions. I am trying to understand it that is why i am questioning you. I DID ADDRESS THAT POINT I had him as scum before the claim, the claim makes no sense as town, i carry on reading him as scum. you understand now?
THE CLAIM ONLY MAKES SENSE FROM TOWN. The fact that you are NOT understanding this despite how fucking obvious it is, is an indicator that you are lying when you claim that your questions are intended to understand it.
anyway whatever getting really annoyed that I am talking to you but you are scum so I'm just going to ignore you for the rest of the game
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On June 18 2015 23:40 Onegu wrote:Show nested quote +On June 18 2015 22:55 wherebugsgo wrote:
I see I have been ninjaed.
Re: LS, I didn't defend LS prior to the claim because I myself was unsure of his alignment at that point. To me he seemed townish but my reasons were not very well qualified and it was mostly on the basis of him not acting in a very similar way to how he did in the last game where he was scum and we got him killed day 1. Indeed here his defense is a lot more passioned whereas in the previous game and in all the other scum games I read in which he got lynched he more or less rolled over and died.
The claim however pretty much instantly erased any doubts I had and that's when I chose to defend him because I knee jubjubs and scum would jump all over that shit to call him scum. The two worst responses IMO were yours and GB, and to a lesser extent Onegu whose only listed reason for voting was policy. IMO people who do not view that claim as a townish thing to do are either mafia or bad, and I really prefer not to assume someone is bad town when they have demonstrated some capability of thinking analytically.
GB's reaction to the claim was really terrible. He flipped his read on LS completely which is not what I would expect town to do simply on the basis of a claim. It also appeared very opportunistic because as soon as I showed resistance he backed off, and curiously tried to get my opinion on another low-hanging-fruit of a player, VA.
What's interesting to me here is that the more that I think on kt and write it out the more I find GB scummy than anyone else. Anyone else down to kill him today? I dont care if the claim is townie. Dont give 2 shits. LS needs to die so he learns a lesson for future games. I am still reading this huge ass thread...
is that cause you are scum or is that because you are worse than LS?
Pick one, cause either way you deserve to die more than he does
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like, more or less admitting that you don't give a fuck what LS's alignment is, and then admitting that you are lynching him for pure policy is by itself far scummier than anything LS did. At least he is trying and giving off the impression that he cares about the game, and even if he is scum and you are town he's probably a bigger asset to us.
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On June 18 2015 23:43 Onegu wrote:Show nested quote +On June 18 2015 23:41 wherebugsgo wrote:On June 18 2015 23:40 Onegu wrote:On June 18 2015 22:55 wherebugsgo wrote:
I see I have been ninjaed.
Re: LS, I didn't defend LS prior to the claim because I myself was unsure of his alignment at that point. To me he seemed townish but my reasons were not very well qualified and it was mostly on the basis of him not acting in a very similar way to how he did in the last game where he was scum and we got him killed day 1. Indeed here his defense is a lot more passioned whereas in the previous game and in all the other scum games I read in which he got lynched he more or less rolled over and died.
The claim however pretty much instantly erased any doubts I had and that's when I chose to defend him because I knee jubjubs and scum would jump all over that shit to call him scum. The two worst responses IMO were yours and GB, and to a lesser extent Onegu whose only listed reason for voting was policy. IMO people who do not view that claim as a townish thing to do are either mafia or bad, and I really prefer not to assume someone is bad town when they have demonstrated some capability of thinking analytically.
GB's reaction to the claim was really terrible. He flipped his read on LS completely which is not what I would expect town to do simply on the basis of a claim. It also appeared very opportunistic because as soon as I showed resistance he backed off, and curiously tried to get my opinion on another low-hanging-fruit of a player, VA.
What's interesting to me here is that the more that I think on kt and write it out the more I find GB scummy than anyone else. Anyone else down to kill him today? I dont care if the claim is townie. Dont give 2 shits. LS needs to die so he learns a lesson for future games. I am still reading this huge ass thread... is that cause you are scum or is that because you are worse than LS? Pick one, cause either way you deserve to die more than he does Dont give 2 shits... LS needs to die
if you don't give 2 shits then don't fucking play this game
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alright whatever this is making me rage so I'm gonna leave now
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yamato what do you make of the fact that GB just told me I'm apparently not helping town by attempting to consolidate yet he posts a list of players he'd like to lynch, none of whom are likely to get lynched today?
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EPT
