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On June 03 2015 06:05 sicklucker wrote:
##Vote Tictock I feel morally ok policy voting in non newbie games untill he proves hes town
My gut tells me the specific diction you chose with regards to being 'morally' okay with it inclines me to believe you are townie.
On June 03 2015 06:17 Tictock wrote:
In regards to kicks question.
I am pretty new to TL forums. Have played in 2 of the newbie games (the 2 most recent ones, including the ongoing one).
I see a few familiar names, but most of you I don't know... and am HIGHLY suspicious of...
And of course I know SL, who I may have to ignore. I apologize in advance if I start tunneling him, I have a tendency to do that.
I think your intentional emphasis on the fact that you are 'HIGHLY' suspicious of people is scum-indicative. You are making sure we all know you are 'suspicious' of people, aka have imperfect information aka are town. A very roundabout and subtle way to go about telling people you are town.
I think this is an excellent policy vote.
##Vote Tictock
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On June 03 2015 09:42 milo109 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 03 2015 09:40 VisceraEyes wrote:On June 03 2015 09:34 milo109 wrote:
GRR. This is frustrating me. I'm fine being read as scum for my own problems, but not for assuming that someone who hadn't posted was unable to defend themselves. HE WASN'T POSTING. THAT MEANT HE COULDN'T DIRECTLY RESPOND TO YOUR ACCUSATION. Except he did directly respond to my accusation. Directly. Whatever, I get what you're saying. In the future, just don't bring up your teammates ESPECIALLY if someone is drawing attention to them. Trust THEM to dig themselves out. Otherwise you end up digging BOTH of you a grave. I didn't. Which is why this is even more frustrating. I was wrong on the statement. But I was not predicting an AFK.
Whatever it's fine. Expand on your VE read if you please - I've been just exploding town all over this thread. You say there's been a lack of reads out of me. I say that doesn't make me mafia. I say that I've contributed at least one mafia read, and that's the person I want to lynch, and now I'm also willing to lynch you.
I'd say that I've contributed more than at least 50% of the game so far. I also say that I don't give many reads as both town AND mafia, but I give FEWER as town.
What do you say to that?
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Alright. I'm done for tonight. VE.... I hope you actually use logic instead of illusionary slips if you're town. But I don't think you are.
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On June 03 2015 09:50 VisceraEyes wrote:Show nested quote +On June 03 2015 09:42 milo109 wrote:On June 03 2015 09:40 VisceraEyes wrote:On June 03 2015 09:34 milo109 wrote:
GRR. This is frustrating me. I'm fine being read as scum for my own problems, but not for assuming that someone who hadn't posted was unable to defend themselves. HE WASN'T POSTING. THAT MEANT HE COULDN'T DIRECTLY RESPOND TO YOUR ACCUSATION. Except he did directly respond to my accusation. Directly. Whatever, I get what you're saying. In the future, just don't bring up your teammates ESPECIALLY if someone is drawing attention to them. Trust THEM to dig themselves out. Otherwise you end up digging BOTH of you a grave. I didn't. Which is why this is even more frustrating. I was wrong on the statement. But I was not predicting an AFK. Whatever it's fine. Expand on your VE read if you please - I've been just exploding town all over this thread. You say there's been a lack of reads out of me. I say that doesn't make me mafia. I say that I've contributed at least one mafia read, and that's the person I want to lynch, and now I'm also willing to lynch you. I'd say that I've contributed more than at least 50% of the game so far. I also say that I don't give many reads as both town AND mafia, but I give FEWER as town. What do you say to that?
H...He...Hey town buddy .-.
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On June 03 2015 06:24 Tictock wrote:
@ ritoky
Ok, I'll bite
##Vote ritoky
For spamming graphics and one liners. Not even trying to push people yet, such scum.
I also find the direction you chose to push here with as much haste as you did to be mafia-indicative trying to appear townie rather than actual town genuinely believing what he is saying.
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On June 03 2015 09:52 milo109 wrote:
Alright. I'm done for tonight. VE.... I hope you actually use logic instead of illusionary slips if you're town. But I don't think you are.
You've conceded SEVERAL points to me this game so far milo. I've had to correct SEVERAL mistakes in your posts. Why are you saying that I'M the one who needs to use logic? There's no illusion, there are facts in the thread. A timeline of actual events. That's my proof. What's yours?
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So my top scumread is still milo.
On milo
I of course posted earlier on but as I indicated earlier his posts since then I have still found suspect. I may be tunneling him way too hard but I am just being honest that he is still my main scum read. My main thoughts on him are here, most relevant parts are bolded:
On June 03 2015 06:49 Kickstart wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On June 03 2015 06:36 Tictock wrote:Show nested quote +On June 03 2015 06:33 Kickstart wrote:
Well, those that have played with ritoky, is he always like this? I suppose if he always does this he has to keep up his 'meta', however annoying and unhelpful it happens to be.
Also, I could of had time after roles were sent to write up that post, but I will be honest and admit I didn't =]. I had to edit it a bit though because there was quite a bit going on before and while the game started. My first game on TL was with ritoky. I don't recall him doing graphics at all. I was going to double check that game, but I don't see it listed anymore? Check the TL Mafia Database in the username section, all users who have played are listed and all the games they have been in are in their spolier. On June 03 2015 06:38 Tictock wrote:
Oh like, he's policing how much people post? Assume he means that is basically boiled down to how I think the game should be played, which is basically correct. But I would argue that everything I said is correct ----------------------- I was not pleased with ritoky at first but I like his recent posting and at least he is explaining things now. I want to hear more from milo now because everything he has done thus far gives me a scrum read on him, if only slightly. @ miloCan you explain why you threw a vote on ritoky? You posted these posts: On June 03 2015 06:27 milo109 wrote:
I want to vote Ritoky just for making me look at that image.... On June 03 2015 06:32 milo109 wrote:
Alright. I'll bite. For the reasons of trolling a little too much and misspelling the quote in your signature:
##Vote ritoky While I also expressed my concern with his posting style, I have been trying to find out if this is his usual style of play. My concern with the way you went about this situation is that you didn't like his posting style (which to be fair it seems many people don't either) and seem to have voted solely based on the fact that you don't like his posting style without bothering to see if he always does this. TO be more concise, the goal is to find players who are acting scummy; if, as you self proclaimed, you haven't played with him before, and you do not know if this is his usual style, you have no information to tell you if this style from him is suspicious or not. So I think your vote on him is suspect in that you made the vote because you read him as annoying, not because you read him as scummy. Thus, I would like to hear more on you about your vote.
To summarize this post, his initial vote on ritocky I found suspect because he made it just because he didn't like his posting without first trying to figure out if this was normal. He had no way of knowing if this was normal from rickoty, but unlike me who tried to figure out if it was normal before making a decision, he straight up throws down a vote because he just doesn't like it.
The editing in my post where I voted on him is so wonky I can't figure it out. Regardless, at that point my most relevant point is that milo was again contradicting himself:
On June 03 2015 07:01 Kickstart wrote:
Unfortunatly milo this again makes no sense to me, you say you are not comfortable reading people scummy yet throw a vote on him because you just said you don't think (or you aren't convinced) that he is town, which means you DID in fact read him as scummy. But an even bigger issue than that for me is that that is not what you said when you threw down the vote, you threw down the vote because you didn't like his posting, and as I said, you had no way of knowing if this was his usual posting and thus the vote was NOT a vote on who you thought was scummy, even though now you seem to be trying to indicate that it was.
I do not like your actions and I do not find this explanation from you satisfactory.
##Vote: milo109
To be fair to milo he has explained these contradictions and even conceded them.
Since then I also haven't liked that he said he didn't find ritocky voting for him scummy yet in my mind that is the only (or at least the main) reason that he reads me as scummy, but again I am biased here. I also found his claim that Chocolate was unable to defend himself weird but VE was able to point that out before me. Saying he is unable to defend himself just makes no sense in any situation at all, even if he was afk at the time its forum mafia, he could come back and read it.
Anyways, aside from milo the next person I was suspicious of (slight scum read on) is sicklucker.
On sicklucker
His very first part I found suspect:
On June 03 2015 06:05 sicklucker wrote:
##Vote Tictock I feel morally ok policy voting in non newbie games untill he proves hes town
Since I've not played with him I don't know how much he was joking or whatever, which I tried to clarify by asking if people had played with each other and what the tictock voting was about but really I didn't get a real explanation on the tictock vote imo, I guess he kind of hinted that TT annoyed him in another game, not sure. Aside from the vote though, the immediate "I am ok with policy voting until he proves hes town" was weird to me. I guess talking about policy voting is not that unusual but for one TT has been active enough for a policy vote based on activity to not apply and secondly I think just coming out and trying to push policy vote is weird. I just read it as SL being ok with just voting on policy instead of hunting for scum. The fact that his vote remains on TT and he hasn't pushed anyone for information or anything just adds to my suspicion that he would rather vote based on policy than hunt for actual scum.
My other main gripe is that he was quite active, but posting mostly one-liners with not much substance at all. He was clearly here the entire time at the start but didn't weigh in on what was going on, which I find weird since there was a lot of discussion happening. His only two posts sharing his thoughts were these:
On June 03 2015 07:39 sicklucker wrote:
I dont rly like kickstarter either. Way to tryhard for a first post for my liking.
On June 03 2015 07:39 sicklucker wrote:Show nested quote +On June 03 2015 07:37 Damdred wrote:
So, gut feeling is Milo stuff isn't as bad as it is being made out to,be. If you think,he's Scum Ok that's fine.
Don't tunnel him before he has tile to do anything else.
Answer me this why,can't his reasons be all he's said? Does town never contradict themselves? Are both these things only scum oriented I agree but its so unlike you to defend a person
The first one is suspect because he doesn't like someone for being "too tryhard". How does that even make sense. Aside from it being me he is suspicious of, someone being "too tryhard" is actually good I would say. So that was weird.
I guess his post directed at Damdred isn't as odd but even here he doesn't post any of his own thoughts, just says "I agree", he does say Damdred is doing something odd in defending another player. I do not know how true that statement is as I have not played with Damdred, maybe someone else can comment on if SL is correct here.
TL:DR Top scum reads are milo and sicklucker atm
(while im typing this I'm still checking the thread and milo just throwing "i Don't think you are town" at VE is funny too, but whatever).
I don't really think town reads are important at this point, but I will just say who I get slight town reads from. Again though, this is just who I probably wouldn't vote on today as what they have done thus far doesn't indicate them being scummy to me, it doesn't mean I have them pegged as town and won't ever vote or pressure them. But so far I mostly like ritocky and VE. I know I was somewhat annoyed with ritocky's posting at the start but since then it has been fine, he has spurred a lot of discussion, asked good questions, and been forthright with his opinions and thoughts. VE has done the same as far as spurring discussion and being open with his thoughts, both of which I like and think are important.
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Also glad to see GGT has joined in now, but I must admit I don't find myself agreeing with any of his points and find his jump onto TT weird :/. I outlined above that I found SL scummy and he just goes "I think you are town", so to me that is weird; and I don't see what he sees on TT.
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@ GG
Are you just voting on me kus you've seen my name in bold a few times? Your reasoning seems a little weak.
I am HIGHLY suspicious of the people I've never played with. I don't have a baseline to work with so I have to form reads on people from nothing. That means I'm going to be more cautious with townreading them than people who I've played with before.
As for that vote on ritoky. It was a direct response to his post here,
On June 03 2015 06:19 ritoky wrote:Show nested quote +On June 03 2015 06:17 Tictock wrote:
In regards to kicks question.
I am pretty new to TL forums. Have played in 2 of the newbie games (the 2 most recent ones, including the ongoing one).
I see a few familiar names, but most of you I don't know... and am HIGHLY suspicious of...
And of course I know SL, who I may have to ignore. I apologize in advance if I start tunneling him, I have a tendency to do that. ![[image loading]](https://lindasbiblestudy.files.wordpress.com/2014/04/kittydog.jpeg) y u so surs an shit?
So GG, why are your posts so short and only sheeping stuff people have already pointed out?
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On June 03 2015 06:29 ritoky wrote:Show nested quote +On June 03 2015 06:24 Kickstart wrote:On June 03 2015 06:10 Tictock wrote:
@ Kick
It has always been my policy to deal with inactives by reading their actual posts that much harder.
The idea is that if they are only willing to share a small amount of thoughts or thinking then we should take those posts even more literally/seriously. My point is that we need to foster an environment that doesn't allow inactivity, this is clearly the best environment to have and thus we should strive for it. How we will deal with people that are inactive anyways is another matter. Also people should, eventually, share most of their thoughts. Holding back your thoughts initially to build on them is fine, I already find some things scummy but I am waiting to add to this so as not to let the person/people I find scummy change what they are doing so soon. On June 03 2015 06:12 ritoky wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On June 03 2015 06:02 Kickstart wrote:I just want to go ahead and get this out. A good town environment is one in which no one is allowed to lurk or be passive and not post much of their thoughts. While I honestly don't know any of the players in this game I believe some are new so to them and to everyone else, you have to post. Whether you are 100% sure in your reads or not, posting is good for town. Even if your reads are wrong, being active is good for town to figure out the game. I refuse to allow the game to be a passive one where several people are lurking and not being active and contributing to the conversation because that automatically makes the game harder on town and lessens town's win chance. The 10 post per cycle rule enacted by the host is a good first step but I think it is up to us to make sure that people don't abuse the rule by just posting the minimum number of times and saying nothing of substance. Now what I said applies to every game of course, an active town is always better than a passive town with several lurkers; but I particularly wanted to lead in with this point because I already feel like we might be heading in the direction of a passive/inactive town. So this is directed to everyone but specifically directed @ Damdred and Tictock: Damdred and Tictock already posted before the start of the game that they might not be active. Here are Dam's and TT's posts I am referring to: Thankfully they have both said that they are just sort of busy at the start but will have more time and be more active. I just want to urge them both to be as active as they can from the start, that way everyone can gets reads on them and we don't let them both through just because they aren't active in the first phase but might be in the phases after. Just to be clear though, I am not accusing either of you nor am I suspicious of you for it, because those statements are clearly not alignment indicative because they were made before the game began and people had their roles. I am just saying that I refuse to allow the game to devolve into a passive town game with people lurking and posting nothing of substance and those events already have me worried that we may find ourselves in that position. So I urge you, along with everyone else, to be as active as you can, even if you are strapped for time. Now that that is out of the way, could those who have played in games with some of the other people in the game (or if you know them) tell me who the strong players? I haven't played mafia on here since 2012 so I have no idea who the good players are and I think knowing this is helpful. I know this request seems a bit scummy ("Oh you wan't to know who the good players are so you can get rid of them!") but I will just concede that and say that knowing who is good tells everyone that those players: a) should not be lurking because if they are good they are usually always active in their games (so if they are lurking and posting not much substance it will be suspicious), and, b) they would be valuable assets (so we should expect strong town play from them and we would expect mafia to try and get rid of them), both good pieces of information for town. That is all I have for now, get to posting and being active everyone! :D saw good town environment, stopped reading. ![[image loading]](http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h38/mrcrapinson/GregFart.gif~original) Can you clarify please? I think you mean you basically eyerolled at my post at the second line and didn't bother reading it. Could you clarify what you meant, and in the future not post your thought in the form of GIFs and images? It was a long post made immediately after the day post, which means it was planned and probably planned regardless of alignment. It says nothing about your alignment and only about some bs intentions you plan to traffic cop about to appear like you're doing shit for the game. I don't really care about reading more than a paragraph because it won't teach me anything about your alignment. I will continue to post pictures, deal with it.
I actually love the read in bold. It doesn't necessarily clear you as town but I am inclined to like you more for the honesty.
I fully retract my read on Kickstart but after continuing to read ritoky's posting I just really want to say I believe he is town. He's just very forward and open about his thoughts in such a way that I believe would be very difficult and bold to do as a mafia.
On June 03 2015 06:49 Kickstart wrote:Show nested quote +On June 03 2015 06:36 Tictock wrote:On June 03 2015 06:33 Kickstart wrote:
Well, those that have played with ritoky, is he always like this? I suppose if he always does this he has to keep up his 'meta', however annoying and unhelpful it happens to be.
Also, I could of had time after roles were sent to write up that post, but I will be honest and admit I didn't =]. I had to edit it a bit though because there was quite a bit going on before and while the game started. My first game on TL was with ritoky. I don't recall him doing graphics at all. I was going to double check that game, but I don't see it listed anymore? Check the TL Mafia Database in the username section, all users who have played are listed and all the games they have been in are in their spolier. Show nested quote +On June 03 2015 06:38 Tictock wrote:
Oh like, he's policing how much people post? Assume he means that is basically boiled down to how I think the game should be played, which is basically correct. But I would argue that everything I said is correct ----------------------- I was not pleased with ritoky at first but I like his recent posting and at least he is explaining things now. I want to hear more from milo now because everything he has done thus far gives me a scrum read on him, if only slightly. @ miloCan you explain why you threw a vote on ritoky? You posted these posts: Show nested quote +On June 03 2015 06:27 milo109 wrote:
I want to vote Ritoky just for making me look at that image.... Show nested quote +On June 03 2015 06:32 milo109 wrote:
Alright. I'll bite. For the reasons of trolling a little too much and misspelling the quote in your signature:
##Vote ritoky While I also expressed my concern with his posting style, I have been trying to find out if this is his usual style of play. My concern with the way you went about this situation is that you didn't like his posting style (which to be fair it seems many people don't either) and seem to have voted solely based on the fact that you don't like his posting style without bothering to see if he always does this. TO be more concise, the goal is to find players who are acting scummy; if, as you self proclaimed, you haven't played with him before, and you do not know if this is his usual style, you have no information to tell you if this style from him is suspicious or not. So I think your vote on him is suspect in that you made the vote because you read him as annoying, not because you read him as scummy. Thus, I would like to hear more on you about your vote.
I actually think your re-hashing what other people said much more concisely is scummy. I had the same initial thoughts with regards to 'annoying read' vs 'scum read' because as a general rule it is a scumtell, but something about the specific sentence structure of how he said it gave me like a 'townie vibe' as a new forum player for some reason.
If you are town I encourage you to remember that while lurking is bad that being too drawn-out and repetitive in your posts is just as bad on the opposite extreme.
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I second what TT is saying, to me GGs jump on him is so weird, almost as weird as his just giving SL a town read based on seemingly nothing. With that I would really want a more thorough explanation on both points from GG.
Also I think the only person who hasn't said anything at all so far is Onegu, which is quite good as far as activity goes from my past experiences. As long as Onegu and a few others give some detailed thoughts in this day period (main people I want to hear from at this point I guess are Onegu and fidei as they have given us the least to work with imo. I also want to hear more actual reads and opinions from SL, Damdred, and scott).
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@GG
I summarize because if you couldn't tell, I have a tendency to post a lot and post large posts :D. I have said what my other games are, you can check them and you will see I did the same there.
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Ok Kick, you looking more towny now, after those reads.
I can help explain why SL is voting me, though you've already guessed at it. He is just mad becuase I have tunneled him the past 2 games I played. Oddly I've done it for the same one liners and "I'm town" statements that you are doing now.
Since you've stated you've been looking into past games there's a paranoid voice in me going "He's trying to pocket you" since your agreeing with what I've always scummed him for, but that seems far fetched.
My general stance on SL, is that he seems to do those things as either alignment. Him being useless is just him playing the game. Hope that doesn't sound mean, I have given him ample opportunity to correct my opinion of him, but I don't think he can let go of the ego.
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Also, I really haven't just rehashed what others have said, I rehashed what I have said to try and clarify. Not sure if I agree that being drawn-out and repetitive is bad, I just tend to be confident and really push my opinions strongly, again you can check my games and see this.
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EBWOP
Oddly I've done it for the same one liners and "I'm town" statements that you are picking up on now.
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On June 03 2015 10:18 Tictock wrote:
Ok Kick, you looking more towny now, after those reads.
I can help explain why SL is voting me, though you've already guessed at it. He is just mad becuase I have tunneled him the past 2 games I played. Oddly I've done it for the same one liners and "I'm town" statements that you are doing now.
Since you've stated you've been looking into past games there's a paranoid voice in me going "He's trying to pocket you" since your agreeing with what I've always scummed him for, but that seems far fetched.
My general stance on SL, is that he seems to do those things as either alignment. Him being useless is just him playing the game. Hope that doesn't sound mean, I have given him ample opportunity to correct my opinion of him, but I don't think he can let go of the ego.
Haha, sl sure isnt going to like that but I appreciate the honesty and it gives me more to work with on him.
Also, full disclosure, I've not looked into anyones past games yet, and am not sure if I will :D, perhaps later on if I want more to work with but so far my general questions about players in the game have been addressed by just asking them here.
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tictock has not even seen me as scum...
At least in completely games we have played.
So like hes just saying things but he does that as town tbh.
Im really pissed off and probably wont be of any use for awile
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On June 03 2015 10:27 sicklucker wrote:
tictock has not even seen me as scum...
At least in completely games we have played.
So like hes just saying things but he does that as town tbh.
Im really pissed off and probably wont be of any use for awile
Is it cruel that you made me lol =[. Don't take it personally. I actually find it interesting that even though you are both going at each other you have both basically said that the other does this as town, that is helpful. Don't get discouraged and not post =[
I in fact found that last post to be quite honest, more posts like that is all we want! Being a recluse isn't going to help and is just going to cast more suspicion on yourself, but if you need a break and will post more tomorrow or whatever that is cool too, just do so before the deadline!!!
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Thread seems to have died down a bit, I will be up for quite some time I think but I am going to go play some dota or something. Will still be reading for awhile.
As an aside I like to try and keep everyone aware of when I will be sleeping or away for extended periods so before I go to sleep I will probably say so so that people know I will be gone for a bit. Time to go lose MMR :@
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I don't play forum mafia very much but I don't like the idea of having town reads. To me that seems somewhat counter-productive since at this point any player could be town. It's easy for a scum player to post in a "town-friendly" way (which is I think a reiteration of the "tryhard" vibe). I believe it would be much more productive for people to look for scum reads than to try to identify people as town
@ VE do you have any opinions about people other than me and milo
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EPT
