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sciberbia
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sciberbia
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sciberbia
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On May 18 2015 05:08 The Shining wrote: GB on the very very very bottom, right hand side, link says turn on mobile enhanced mode. Also, your vote is cake. The cake is a lie. Am I correctly deciphering this as saying that you disapprove of GB's vote on Damdred? Would you go so far as to say you have a town read/lean on Damdred for his opening posts, or do you simply think GB's vote is baseless? | ||
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sciberbia
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On May 18 2015 05:31 The Shining wrote: Nope. I am merely stating that the vote is not in the voting thread and therefore a cake and therefore a lie. A nonexistent vote can't be baseless. But you're going so far as to try and draw far too many conclusions from one post. Too strong, too early. Why? My post consisted of two questions, not two conclusions. I did not draw any conclusions, but instead tried to decipher your cryptic post and get confirmation from you as to what it meant. In future, please try to be clear in the first place rather than intentionally communicating poorly and then acting smug when I fail to understand you. | ||
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sciberbia
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On May 18 2015 05:57 The Shining wrote: I didn't think calling a non-vote a lie was THAT cryptic. MY BAD. I guess you're just a genius but when mere simpletons such as myself see somebody write ##vote: in the thread, we tend to think of it as a real vote and do not immediately go check the voting thread. On May 18 2015 05:57 The Shining wrote: In the future, ask me what I mean if you'd like to know rather than wrongly interpret it. That's exactly what I was doing. I asked you what you meant because I suspected I might be misinterpreting it. On May 18 2015 05:57 The Shining wrote: Or better yet, don't tell me how to play and I won't tell you how to play. ........YOU were the one who started this little argument by criticizing how I was playing: On May 18 2015 05:31 The Shining wrote: But you're going so far as to try and draw far too many conclusions from one post. Too strong, too early. Why? sheesh | ||
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sciberbia
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On May 18 2015 06:01 The Shining wrote: Ebwop: Sciberbia, you obviously asked me but I meant ask me without trying to direct where my post was going. There is questioning and then there is guided questioning. I don't need a guide. OK fine. If it bothers you that much, I'll try to refrain from asking you guided questions in the future. Look, I don't hate your posting style and I'm not trying to attack your credibility. I was just irked that you were acting like any idiot should have realized what you were talking about with '"the cake is a lie". | ||
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On May 18 2015 06:25 Palmar wrote: ##vote damdred 100% mafia. He posted in the QT? | ||
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On May 18 2015 05:20 Damdred wrote: I'm not sure what exactly is mafia-ish about commenting on someone else opening, rather than coming into the thread and not say anything. Unless you are saying that i'm not actually commenting, or commenting and not giving him anything to work for? Now if you agree with either of these shame shame on you. @Damdred Can you explain the bolded? Am I to understand your first post as saying "I'm setting high expectations for you scib"? | ||
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sciberbia
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On May 18 2015 06:41 The Shining wrote: I realized I was being a bit unfair in telling you to just question me when you had but in past experiences, I've had words and posts twisted to conform to someone's motives so the guided questions just rub me the wrong way. Yeah maybe you're right, the cake thing was a bit indirect. I just don't like going too deep into a pressure vote with no actual vote. Not much I can learn from that. OK that is fair and understandable. The reason I was asking about your cake post is that I would have thought it scummy if you were actually "going too deep" into GB's pressure vote. But you might currently get a town lean. Maybe. Pending reread. Anyway I just don't want you to be mad at me all game. | ||
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On May 18 2015 06:47 Palmar wrote: Why are you guys talking to mafia. Just lynch him and be done with it. Idk I was considering joining your wagon on the premise that Damdred was super excited to start in the pre-game, but I have been getting a sad/sullen feel from his first few posts, which would tend to indicate he received a mafia PM. But on the flipside, his first post of the game was him setting high expectations for me. If I were mafia!damdred, I would not want to encourage town!sciberbia. Rather, I would hide very far away from town!sciberbia and hope he doesn't notice me. So I think his first post is a townie point. Feel free to try and dissaude me. | ||
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sciberbia
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On May 18 2015 06:39 Damdred wrote: Well Palmar is town that's my first town read of the game. On May 18 2015 06:51 Damdred wrote: I'm disappointed in you Palmar, you've never caught me like that and you never will. On May 18 2015 07:09 Damdred wrote: Palmar thinks he can read me from a few dickish posts I made. So reasons @Damdred I feel like I'm missing something. Is there any history between you and Palmar that would help me to understand your reads on each other here? Why do you think Palmar is town? | ||
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sciberbia
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On May 18 2015 07:21 Damdred wrote: I think its a nonsensical stance for Mafia!Palmar to take at this stage of the game that Damdred is scum. Especially given how Palmar thinks (highly) about how I play the game and how I eventually gain momentum as the game goes along and if i'm town I can easily get off the mislynch as long as I try anyway. I don't see mafia Palmar going after me early in the game. Plus hes done this before to me as town I think Damn this is a pretty reasonable and well thought-out response so I guess I can't vote you. + Show Spoiler + Of course it is entirely consistent with the theory that Palmar called you scum because you posted in his QT  But I'll wait for one of you to flip scum before returning to this. Sorry Palmar but I need further persuasion if you want me to vote damdred. | ||
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sciberbia
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I agree with Vivax that Palmar could still be scum. What if he is scum and he's just calling you scum to make it look like he's doing something? He may not necessarily be hoping to get you lynched. | ||
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sciberbia
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Best read for mafia so far. He does a ton of filter-diving on Damdred to make it look like he's hardcore contributing, but he's super wishy-washy in his conclusions. Just look at the amount of hedging his bets here: On May 18 2015 07:33 Zealos wrote: Although there was a post limit on Assassination... On May 18 2015 07:33 Zealos wrote: I'd lean slighty mafia but I'm not convinced honestly. On May 18 2015 07:34 Zealos wrote: Having said that, he has been forced on the defensive. On May 18 2015 07:34 Zealos wrote: One of Damdred and Palmar are mafia I think though Like why even post all your research if you are this unsure in your conclusions? Looks like a good candidate for someone who is trying to look like they are contributing but isn't. | ||
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On May 18 2015 07:40 Vivax wrote: Zealos is town, any objections? lol yes I object. What do you think of my post? | ||
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On May 18 2015 07:45 Vivax wrote: I see nothing scummy in not being completely confident into your conclusions, cause that's what it sounds like. Not that "wishy washy" buzzword you just used. As I see it he actually tried to deepen analysis on Damdred but doesn't feel too strongly about his conclusions. That's townie. You're starting to worry me scib. But let's let this play out for a bit. That's interesting because I was expecting you to scumread him with me. As I'm sure you'd agree, there's a difference between being wishy-washy and posting unsure conclusions. If he had concluded, "I have found some small reasons to suspect that Damdred is scum", then I would have been more-or-less fine with his post. What is wishy-washy is saying something and then immediately retracting it or modifying your previous statement to make it less forceful. "I'd lean slighty mafia BUT I'm not convinced honestly." "Having said that, he has been forced on the defensive." This sort of posting is typical of scum who want to look like they are saying something of substance, yet either fear retaliation from a town Damdred, fear looking bad if/when Damdred flips town, or are trying to delicately play a bussing situation. | ||
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On May 18 2015 07:46 Zealos wrote: It can only help town to have all the information in front of them, hiding it until I'm sure is at best a gloryhunting strategy, and at worst, damaging to towns chances of winning This sounds lovely and all, but in my opinion it isn't a good justification Zealos's post. After I read the whole post, my previous opinion towards Damdred's alignment did not change one bit. Considering the large amount of reading I had to do, it didn't really move the thread anywhere. I could on the next page post logs of every game Damdred has every played, and point to this quote as justification of why it is a pro-town thing to do. | ||
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On May 18 2015 08:12 Vivax wrote: Okay, I'll move him back to null cause you made me unsure. :D Awesome. I'm out to dinner. Will be back later. | ||
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On May 18 2015 10:42 Damdred wrote: I probably will. The thread is a little dead, so what do you think of vivax scib? Good question. I'm not really sure what I think of him so excuse me if I babble a bit here. In general I am not too confident in my ability to read Vivax, but this one time I played with Vivax in Smurf Mini where we were both town, and I found myself applauding every post he made, so I know he is capable of coming off really townie. That is why I was surprised that he disagreed with my read on Zealos, because I thought any experienced player would agree with my read (like you and Palmar seem to). I was also surprised when he called your post a pile of WIFOM, because I thought it was a pretty interesting explanation for your townread on Palmar. Lastly, I find this sequence of posts a bit odd. On May 18 2015 07:40 Vivax wrote: Zealos is town, any objections? On May 18 2015 07:45 Vivax wrote: You're starting to worry me scib. But let's let this play out for a bit. On May 18 2015 08:12 Vivax wrote: Okay, I'll move him back to null cause you made me unsure. He was so certain of Zealos being town that he started to question my towniness for voting Zealos. But then over the course of a few sentences I managed to move his read on Zealos to null. I was not expecting him to agree so easily. Since I know he is capable as coming off as really townie, and instead has puzzled me a bit, I will put him on the scummy side of null for now. Out of curiosity, why did you ask me for my thoughts on Vivax if we are your top two town reads? And I'd be open to you convincing me as to why Vivax is town. | ||
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sciberbia
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On May 18 2015 11:35 Oatsmaster wrote: Thats a bad read. Why was Palmar town for scumreading you? Damdred has already explicitly answered this exact question in the thread. Have you been reading thoroughly? On May 18 2015 11:35 Oatsmaster wrote: scib, feels a lot like you are making up a read for the sake of a read. I'm sorry you feel that way Oats. Am I correct in inferring that you think my read on Zealos is a bad read? If so, what do you make of the fact that Damdred and Palmar agree with my read on Zealos? | ||
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On May 18 2015 11:47 Damdred wrote: Sci thoughts ok the obi smd vivax reads One step ahead of you mate. + Show Spoiler + On May 18 2015 11:28 Damdred wrote: Well at first I wanted your thoughts specifically but I got impatient and just started putting whatever in the thread to get some discussion going. Vivax is kinda being a dick to me and it makes me think he's town to an extent XD. But for a more serious answer, I actually get better vibes off of him for those sentences that go from thinking ze is town to doubting you to thinking maybe he's wrong. It shows a somewhat believable train of thought to me in this situation that starts with I think I'm right, he's sees you disagree says he doubts you. Then however you deliver what I consider to be a pretty good reasoning on why ze is mafia at this point, so it makes vivax reevaluate at that point. I think its a pretty towny way of thinking, he also doesn't immediately jump on ze here he moves him back to null to think more about it instead of over reacting and humping on him also it seems he was wanting to pressure and call some things I did or didn't do into question. I liked it even if its just surface stuff right now. @Damdred I find your analysis on Vivax reasonable, and I would probably agree with all of it had I never played with Vivax before. But I think I've seen Vivax act dickish as mafia before. And I've always thought of Vivax as very sure of his convictions to the point of fault, so I was more surprised than impressed that he moved from town to null on Zealos. Maybe I have the wrong idea of him though: like I said I don't feel too confident in reading him. Whatever I guess; hopefully I will get a better sense of him as the game moves along. I'll keep thinking about this. Regarding obi, I had him marked down as nullish. I've never played with him before so I feel like I cannot sympathize with some of your argument. I suppose I could look at the games you referenced at some point. I'm waiting to see more from him before I decide if his first couple posts are worrying enough to warrant a scum read. | ||
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On May 18 2015 11:53 Oatsmaster wrote: This is saying "palmar wont do this as scum"". Which is horrific reasoning. Why wont he do this as scum? why is this specifically something only town Palmar does? Presumably hes wrong, so you are townreading someone for being wrong?!?!? It is very interesting to me that three people (myself, Stutters, and Damdred) think that Damdred's explanation of his town read on Palmar is completely reasonable, while three other people (Vivax, GB, and now Oats) think it is a horrid explanation. On May 18 2015 11:53 Oatsmaster wrote: Why wont he do this as scum? why is this specifically something only town Palmar does? @Oats It looks to me like you are asking questions Damdred clearly answered in the post you quoted. What specifically doesn't make sense here? Take as a premise that Damdred is town and that Palmar thinks highly of Damdred's play and knows that town Damdred would be very difficult to mislynch. Therefore, a mafia!Palmar trying to start a lynch on a town!Damdred would be a puzzling move, as Palmar should know that the lynch will not go through. Perhaps Palmar should have picked an easier mislynch target. Since it would be a puzzling move from mafia!Palmar, and damdred thinks he has seen Palmar do this exact same thing as town before, Damdred concludes that Palmar is probably town. At what point does that reasoning become horrific? | ||
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On May 18 2015 12:10 Oatsmaster wrote: well no not exactly, damdred never references your read when saying he has a scumread on zealos. @Oats I'm sorry to have to contradict you there, but... On May 18 2015 11:28 Damdred wrote: Then however you deliver what I consider to be a pretty good reasoning on why ze is mafia at this point, so it makes vivax reevaluate at that point. Given this quote, is Damdred now also scummy for agreeing with me? On May 18 2015 12:10 Oatsmaster wrote: I dont think that its bad to scumread zealos, but the reasons you brought up are all weak and I dont actually think wishy washy is a scumtell. OK I'm just going to disagree with you on that. | ||
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On May 18 2015 12:22 GlowingBear wrote: Like, I HATE this interaction. First post is Damdred saying he doesn't know what is mafia-ish on his post. Then gives two example why his first post could be mafia-ish but it's a shame if I assume one of those makes him mafia. Why does he thinks it could make him look as mafia, then?? Also, sciberbia bolds this, then asks something COMPLETELY UNRELATED, and Damdred answers like "phew you got it!" without explaining anything. A huge ARGGGGGH @GB It's not unrelated at all lol. You just don't understand the message he was trying to send with his first post which is why you think it's unrelated. Damdred can you please explain this more clearly to GB? I feel like I've been posting too much. If damdred doesn't reply for a while, I'll just explain his posts to the best of my ability. | ||
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On May 18 2015 12:34 Damdred wrote: Last time I think me and scib were in a game he hard carried the scum team to victory(?) I think anyway, I had high expectations and wanted him to know it because I think well of him as a player. To clarify, by telling me to "get to it", I assumed Damdred was telling me that he expected a lot of contributions from me (probably due to the prior game he mentioned), or else he would be disappointed and/or think I am scum. As I mentioned later, I saw this as a townie move because I am town and I don't see why would mafia!damdred would try to motivate town!sciberbia to play at my best. | ||
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On May 18 2015 12:26 Onegu wrote: cuz nobody other damdred has answered my question. And I have asked like 2-3 times now. Dude chill out a little. How are we supposed to know why Palmar thinks Damdred is scum? I suggest you wait until Palmar returns to the thread and ask him then if he has not already cleared up the issue himself. Alternatively, ask obi why his vote is on damdred. This could be a productive line of questioning. You are acting like the entire thread has a scumread on damdred but that is simply not true: I for one do not and I can't read either Palmar's or Obi's mind and tell you why they do. | ||
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On May 18 2015 08:09 GlowingBear wrote: I like Damdred's explanation this early. Sounds like possibly town. Can you quote the explanation you liked and say what you liked about it? I'm not sure which explanation you're referring to. | ||
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On May 18 2015 13:27 Damdred wrote: You also missed the joke entirely Can you explain the joke you are referring to? | ||
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Regarding your suspicions of me, I am not mafia and therefore I could obviously explain to you the town motivation and reasoning behind all of my posts, but unless you start rallying people to lynch me (which I doubt will happen), I am not going to respond point by point because I don't think it would be a productive discussion. If town, you are currently victim to confirmation bias, but with any luck I will help bring home a mafia lynch D1 and you'll warm up to me of your own accord. I'm going to bed soon if anybody has anything they are burning to discuss with me. | ||
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On May 18 2015 14:03 GlowingBear wrote: Also, there is no difference in Palmar pushing you for the lynch and obi voting you this early. They are all unjustified votes. If you read someone to have the courage to call you mafia as town, you should read someone who have the courage to sheep someone like that as town too. I'll stop pushing this matter. All there is have to been said is said. I will wait on people's opinion on this. I disagree with you on this point. I feel there is a distinct difference between Palmar's vote on Damdred and Obi's vote on Damdred. Palmar implied that something in Damdred's filter makes Palmar think that Damdred is scum. Obi implied that he is voting Damdred solely because Palmar did. While you are correct in saying that they are both in some sense "unjustified", I think that Palmar's at least carries some promise of future legitimate justification whereas Obi's does not. I see them as fundamentally different moves and don't have any problem with Damdred coming to different conclusions about them. On May 18 2015 14:03 GlowingBear wrote: I hate your response here. You could simply say you were joking, or that you had no read on me yet. But your answer was "there is no point to share a read on someone who tunnels every game". It's poor reasoning. I agree with this point on Damdred. If it is true as you say that Damdred respects your play, then it is worrying that he made some early jabs at you ("You don't want to make the headline with GB do you Palmar?") and then took another jab at you here instead of actually just answering your question. This point alone is not enough to make me think Damdred is scum though. | ||
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On May 18 2015 14:34 Onegu wrote: Meh... Palmar implying? He just said 100% mafia... I still dont get the read even from GB. Like I thought he was trying to solve the game. Well maybe I am wrong, but when I hear someone say they have a 100% mafia read, I assume 1) That they are exaggerating by saying 100% 2) That they have some reason for thinking the person is mafia So I think Palmar is implying that he has some reason for thinking Damdred is mafia, which he has not had the courtesy to share with the thread. It would be really nice if he could just spit it out and not leave us all here speculating as to what he meant, but I'm sure he enjoys the attention. | ||
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On May 18 2015 12:18 sciberbia wrote: @Oats I'm sorry to have to contradict you there, but... Given this quote, is Damdred now also scummy for agreeing with me? @Oats I would appreciate it if you answered this when you return to the thread. According to you, my reasoning for voting zealos was weak, and therefore anyone who buys into it is scummy. And despite your claim to the contrary, I have now proven that Damdred, for one, bought into it. Therefore, you must either conclude that Damdred and anyone else who buys into my reasoning is scummy, or admit that my reasoning for voting zealos is actually not so weak. I encourage you to do the latter. | ||
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On May 18 2015 15:32 Oatsmaster wrote: I saw that post, didnt pick up that he was talking to you. Damdred is scummy, YES. Interesting. Ok well at least you are sticking to your story. On May 18 2015 15:32 Oatsmaster wrote: Also I hate it when people say they will lynch mafia but fail to mention who exactly should die. Which makes me feel like they arent sure about their top read. I will openly admit that while I do think my Zealos reasoning is solid, I am not 100% certain of his guilt, and pending future evidence, I reserve the right to change my vote. If you are going to hold that against me, I'm not sure there is anything I can say to convince you of my towniness. | ||
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On May 18 2015 15:41 Zealos wrote: Hasn't offered any reasoning, or anything of use to the thread, AND miss spelt my name I agree with your characterization of Palmar's play thus far. I think most of the thread would agree that Palmar's early play leaves a lot to be desired. If you have time, could you give your opinion of ObiWanShinobi? Similar to Palmar, he has popped in and out of the thread, made some random posts, and not offered any reasoning or anything of use to the thread. Would you also consider voting him, or is there a difference between him and Palmar that makes Palmar more suspicious in your eyes? | ||
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On May 19 2015 00:28 Zealos wrote: I'd like to hear more of what you think of Palmar though honestly, I still think he has just been a destructive voice so far, I'd like to know if you agree with that assessment, and if you do, whether you think it indicates a mafia lean? Destructive? I'd say a little distracting but mostly just a nonentity so far. And yea sure I would give Palmar a mafia lean at this point. Previously when I have played with him, he has given off strong town vibes by now and I'm currently not seeing it. On May 19 2015 04:03 Zealos wrote: well im safe because you can't spell my name. also i was unsure over which of Damdred and Palmar to vote for. I'm pretty certain now that Damdred isn't helping town this game, and I think he's scum. I get it, they're different games, but the entire posting style is so different and its jarring Am I correct in saying that you did not play in Assassination? It seems like you are basing your scum read on him mostly on a meta comparison from a post-restricted game that you didn't even play in, which seems very shaky to me. On May 19 2015 00:10 Zealos wrote: Also whats with this love in with Damdred and Scrib love in on page 7-8? Well in case it isn't obvious, I'm thinking town on Damdred and I think he's a pretty good player. He called me top town and said he has high expectations of me. Mutual respect and cooperation seems called for. Regarding the post you quoted, I don't think it was a rubbish post. On May 19 2015 02:04 Zealos wrote: I really really don't like Damdreds play actually, it's so different from his Day 1 of Assassination Mafia. He's making so many useless posts and making obnoxious points which can't possibly be helpful to a town team. Wasting space and time for the thread to progress in the direction of hunting scum too. I think he's Scum Can you point to some of the so many useless posts of his that are useless / wasting space and time? Maybe put a collection into a spoiler. Abrasive I will grant you, but it looks to me like the vast majority of his posts have clear content, one of the reasons I think he is town. | ||
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Oh one other thing I wanted to ask you. Why did you say that one of Palmar and Damdred is scum? Were you saying that there is some sort of connection between their alignments, like one is town and the other is scum? Sorry to throw so many things at you at once. Please try to answer this question and both the questions in my previous post though. Break your answers into separate posts if you want. | ||
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If you're busy at the moment, feel free to keep your answers short, but it's time to start playing the game man. We need contributions from you. Who do you want to lynch today? Why did you vote for Damdred early in the game? | ||
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Would you vote for GB today? Why is he not on your list? | ||
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@Obi I want a serious explanation of your vote on Damdred. By saying yoloswag, are you saying that you just did it on a whim without any serious reasoning? | ||
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So what is your current opinion of Damdred's alignment? There is a wagon to lynch him today. Do you see yourself supporting that wagon or opposing it? | ||
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On May 19 2015 05:11 ShoCkeyy wrote: Obviously, I did read his posts which is why I questioned GB to start with, GB is still under my list and I won't truly know until Palmar is gone and now that I mentioned you, you turn around and accuse me with no real reasons and bandwagon once again. @ShoCkeyy What puzzles me here is that your entire filter seems to consist of you building up suspicion against GB, and then you conclude by saying you will vote for either Palmar or Obi. What do you mean by "I won't truly know until Palmar is gone"? | ||
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On May 19 2015 04:16 sciberbia wrote: Am I correct in saying that you did not play in Assassination? It seems like you are basing your scum read on him mostly on a meta comparison from a post-restricted game that you didn't even play in, which seems very shaky to me. Can you point to some of the so many useless posts of his that are useless / wasting space and time? Maybe put a collection into a spoiler. Abrasive I will grant you, but it looks to me like the vast majority of his posts have clear content, one of the reasons I think he is town. @Zealos OK thanks. Can you answer to these two questions as well? | ||
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I'm getting too many feelings of activeness/genuineness/fearlessness from Zealos to leave my vote on him. Currently debating between 2 or 3 people for my vote. I might join in on Shocckey. Would be nice if Vivax/Palmar would step up. | ||
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On May 19 2015 06:36 ShoCkeyy wrote: I just like the fact that I call three people out today and I'm getting ganged up on like in the beginning with they ganged up on damdred. If it doesn't smell like obvious mafia players, then Idk what is obvious. And Palmar has yet to post. @ShoCkeyy So do you think GB is mafia or not? You just said that you don't think he is mafia + Show Spoiler [ShoCkeyy] + On May 19 2015 05:36 ShoCkeyy wrote: I didn't ignore it and I never said GB was mafia directly, nor do I think he's mafia yet after throwing posts at him to see his argument style ... I still build my suspicion upon GB, but I truly don't have much against him other than him trying to "figure" out whos mafia. ... I just don't feel like GB is mafia for now. | ||
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On May 19 2015 06:50 ShoCkeyy wrote: @sci As mentioned, my suspicion grows of GB but my vote stands - I can't confirm he's mafia until Palmar goes first. Isn't it just weird that Palmar is voting right after GB consistently. Then Obi earlier started to throw my name into the mix after calling him out. Which Obi isn't in Palmar's "shit list", but GB is? Once Palmar goes and he is confirm mafia, then I can truly call GB out for being mafia as well. OK I don't know whether you have ever played with Palmar, but I have, and I can tell you that it is very likely a coincidence that he has copied two of GB's votes. By putting GB on his shitlist, Palmar has effectively said that in his opinion, GB "should be treated as incapable of being useful regardless of their alignment". Now why would Palmar copy votes from a player that he thinks is useless? He wouldn't do this even if he were mafia. If he were going to copy votes, he would at least copy them from a player he thinks is good. I think you are reading far too much into Palmar's "shit list". Palmar put people on the list because in his opinion they have said stupid things and therefore should not be listened to. As Palmar said, it is completely irrelevant to them being mafia or not. On May 19 2015 06:50 ShoCkeyy wrote: Once Palmar goes and he is confirm mafia, then I can truly call GB out for being mafia as well. On May 19 2015 06:52 ShoCkeyy wrote: Or maybe the two fronts is two posters misguiding the town by throwing votes around, while you act as a vocal townee? ShoCkey these two quotes are completely inconsistent. Like, your entire stance on GB and Palmar is baffling and needs to be clarified. You say that you have built suspicions against GB, but his guilt will only truly be confirmed once Palmar is confirmed as mafia. But then you say that maybe Palmar and Obi are mafia but GB is just a vocal townie. So what's the deal? | ||
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On May 19 2015 07:12 Damdred wrote: Actually you really missed the most inconsistent part of the post I don't even understand what he is saying there. | ||
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On May 19 2015 07:16 Damdred wrote: The gist if I don't misunderstand is that he doesn't think GB is mafia atm, however in subsequent postings he still infers that gb is scum? oh yea I mentioned that here He replied by saying that GB is not scummy atm, but will be scummy if palmar/obi flip scum. This is what he really has to explain. On May 19 2015 07:01 Damdred wrote: So you really need to walk me through this shockey and why you can't do anything when obi and Palmar are still alive. It doesn't make sense to me Basically this^ | ||
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##vote: Palmar This feels like the right thing to do. I'll be in and out of the thread for the next few hours. | ||
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On May 19 2015 07:39 Damdred wrote: That's not the point, the point is that its an uneven way of doing things currently. You see when you decide to policy lynch Obi/Palmar because of lack of information but ignore someone who literally has no information but has been active on this forum its a weird way to go about things. Not sure if you are talking about shoCkey or in general. shoCkey is not saying obi/palmar as a policy lynch. Rather, he wants to lynch them for being scummy. I could maybe be persuaded to vote for qwerty. But probably that slot will be replaced on D2, and I think I'd like to get a chance to read the replacement. Also, I feel like we get no information from the lynch if we all just hold hands and lynch qwerty. So if we are going to policy lynch, I think I would prefer Palmar/obi. | ||
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##unvote ##vote shoCkeyy shoCkeyy if you want to convince me you're town, I need to clearly understand who you think is mafia and why. | ||
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On May 19 2015 08:37 ShoCkeyy wrote: He asked me a hypothetical question and I gave him a hypothetical answer. I think Palmar or Obi are mafia. 1)If Palmar flips mafia, GB is mafia and Obi is just bandwagoning. 2)If Obi flips mafia, then Palmar is mafia, GB is town. Dude this doesn't make any sense. If you are town, really think about what you are saying here. According to premise 1: if Palmar is mafia, then GB has to be mafia. Let's assume that is true. Now in scenario 2 where Obi flips mafia, Palmar is mafia and GB is town. This is logically inconsistent with premise 1, which states that if Palmar is mafia, then GB has to be mafia. Like imagine both Obi and Palmar are mafia. Now what you are essentially saying is that GB is mafia if and only if we lynch Palmar before Obi, which doesn't make any sense. | ||
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On May 19 2015 08:44 Damdred wrote: Pre flip associations are really bad, if any of them are scum it wont' be because there postings line up or one is sheeping the other. For another you are completely ignoring the reasons why GB is town. The level of mafia play is really high now adays sometimes you get a really bad team, but distancing from yoru team mates is extremely encouraged at points, so that you can't do associative reads. Like honestly theres nothing in there postings that directly point to them being on a team besides them being close together on voting. @Damdred I agree with this, but before I even start to criticize his beliefs, I want his beliefs to be internally consistent. For now I would be happy if he could just state a consistent set of beliefs, even if I don't agree with some or all of them. | ||
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On May 19 2015 11:44 Onegu wrote: Obi's fuck off attitude this game is kinda townie though dont you think. He needs to do more shit but yeah. I still want to lynch Zealous/Zealos hasnt exactly changed my mind at this point. Could lynch into the lurkers. And sho also. @Onegu What are the reasons you want to lynch Zealos? Before you said that you didn't like how he used the assassination meta analysis and the fact that he changed his vote from Palmar to Damdred. He has since addressed those points: + Show Spoiler [assassiation meta analysis] + On May 19 2015 06:08 Zealos wrote: As for the Meta comparison, I didn't play in that game, and I haven't played mafia for ages. I was just looking at the early mafia leans on Damdred, so I checked his filter to compare with his last game. I then checked again later and it just looks very very different to me. Even if you guys don't agree with the call of him mafia, at the very worst having the information pointed out/available in thread can only be helpful to town imo On May 19 2015 06:09 Zealos wrote: Like, I get it might be shaky, but I think it's worth bearing in mind. I just think although you might make sure to get more content in each post during a restricted game, the whole tone of posting is different + Show Spoiler [changing vote] + On May 19 2015 06:06 Zealos wrote: As for Dandreds useless posts: None of these posts for me push any town agenda at all. Futhermore twice in a row he's talking about how easy the game is. I dunno, its not like a super mafia tell, but it just seems like something a town player would be spamming What do you find unsatisfactory about his explanations? They seem believable to me. I specifically like the fact that he was able to point to specific posts of Damdred that he did not like, which were subsequent to his initial vote on Palmar, and made him change his mind. Also, what specific "lurkers" would you suggest we lynch into? | ||
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On May 19 2015 12:29 ObiWanShinobi wrote: I couldn't the answer to the question I asked Shocky. @Obi He just said he hasn't played on these forums in ~5 years. I don't think he ever said whether or not he played on other forums. I can only assume he misunderstood your question. So what do you think on Shocky? Want to lynch? | ||
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So have you finished catching up with the thread? Are you planning to vote for anyone you want to lynch or what? | ||
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On May 19 2015 13:36 Oatsmaster wrote: Palmar scum. Yup. [b]##vote Palmar[b] Also zealos is scum. Vivax maybe, useless posts. and 'risk''? why does that even mean man. meh, the only thing stopping me is assassination was similar in terms of activity. @Oats Why is Zealos scum? And what happened to me and damdred being scummy? P.S. please put your vote in the voting thread | ||
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On May 13 2015 12:58 Fecalfeast wrote: Play to win. This means you play your best to help your team win while you are alive and in the game. | ||
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have you read the thread? who do you think is mafia? | ||
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On May 19 2015 16:01 Qwerty! wrote: <_< yes stutters and onegu for now, still going over other players filters tho stutters cuz his opening posts sound really bad, and its hard for me to see from a town mindset onegu because hes been largely serious (suggests he is scum) and he did not mention being sad about rolling town like hes done in his last many town games... also hes just asking questions and generally not taking stances, plus he advocated plynch and he hates plynches What do you think of Obi, ShoCkey, Palmar, and Vivax? | ||
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On May 19 2015 16:13 Qwerty! wrote: i dont want to lynch vivax today cuz the quick read change on shocky was suspicious, the rest of his filter has felt reasonable and tone felt towny to me; plus i doubt mafia!vivax would change read suspiciously like that with no explanation (i know wifom....) Just to clarify for everyone else, I'm sure you meant to reference vivax's read change on zealos, not shocky. On May 19 2015 16:13 Qwerty! wrote: shockey filter next on my list, but i feel like its really hard to read him... very risky lynch he's a lesser experienced player, and while his association reads are not very good, that doesnt make him scum... im really surprised by how stubbornly he has been clinging to his reads despite everyone telling him he is wrong, i think that makes him more likely to be town (scum would conform more quickly) i dont think he's a good lynch at all @Qwerty I don't think the problem with shockey is his reads being bad. In fact I agree with you that clinging to bizarre conspiracy theories might be more of a towntell than a scumtell. My problem with shockey is that his first several posts dance around GB, seemingly building up suspicion against him without outright calling him mafia, and then he says he would only vote for Palmar or Obi. He waffles back and forth between implying that GB is mafia and GB isn't mafia. It's just baffling and doesn't seem consistent with a townie mindset. Either you should be suspicious of GB or you should not be. After you've read his filter, please tell me if you have any thoughts on what I've said here about shockey. Also, tell me why we should not lynch you today. Are you going to be an asset to the town in future? Are you going to demonstrate your towniness by helping to find mafia? Or are you going to consistently afk for 36 hours randomly? | ||
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For some reason I don't really feel like lynching Qwerty either. The person I think I really want to lynch is Obi.. but gah I just need to convince myself. I'll probably make a post on him and would love some thoughts on it. | ||
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On May 19 2015 16:44 Qwerty! wrote: how long do i gotta wait? cuz im sleepy and kinda just want to go to sleep ive never rly had much success reading obi... ill check his filter tho Give me 30 mintues? | ||
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Not that these are all hard town reads, but I don't want to lynch anyone in this list today: GlowingBear, Onegu, Stutters, Shining, Damdred, Oats, Zealos, Qwerty(?) This leaves: Vivax, Palmar, Shockey, Obiwan No doubt about it, Vivax and Palmar are being lurky, lazy, and making this game harder than it needs to be for us. I think I'm OK with lynching either of them today if they do not contribute more. They would be mostly policy lynches: I cannot pretend to see much in their filters that is scummy. Shockey is baffling. I think he could be mafia. I think he could be town. I'm not too sure. Obi could be town, but I've been suspicious of him for quite a while, and I have given him every chance to remedy his lurkiness, and with 12 hours to the deadline he seems content to not do anything. I wish I felt more confident, but I think he currently has the greatest chance of flipping scum. I will explain why shortly. | ||
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1) His attitude toward Damdred in the middle of the day is extremely suspicious. First, I will give some background. + Show Spoiler [sheeping Palmar] + + Show Spoiler [calling Damdred mafia] + On May 18 2015 11:31 ObiWanShinobi wrote: Damdred is confirmed mafia for thinking that I'm mafia. During the first eight hours of the game, Obi floated around in the thread without really doing anything. He sheeped Palmar's vote onto Damdred, and called Damdred mafia. + Show Spoiler [doesn't feel like doing anything] + On May 18 2015 12:45 ObiWanShinobi wrote: I felt like it. I don't really feel like doing anything until tomorrow so I'm gonna chill unless something catches my interest. + Show Spoiler [vote on Damdred was not serious] + He later explained his behavior by saying that he did not feel like doing anything on the first real-life day of the game, and that his vote on Damdred was basically just a joke with no real reasoning behind it. While this is not exactly model town play so far, I could overlook it. Townies can be lazy and troll too. But now Obi goes to sleep, wakes up, and comes back to the thread. We are now on page 16. The game is in full swing. It is time for Obi to start playing seriously. Let's see what Obi's first two posts are upon his return to the thread. + Show Spoiler [why not vote damdred] + + Show Spoiler [damdred 'plausibly' town] + On May 19 2015 03:10 ObiWanShinobi wrote: It's plausible that Damdred could be town but I'm too preoccupied with important business to fix it until later tonight. I think these two posts might only be able to come from a mafia Obi. The context of the thread is very important to consider here. There is a ton of pressure on Damdred coming from every angle. In fact, here is the vote count at the time: damdred (4): palmar, obiwan, zealos, glowingbear shining (1): stutters zealos (1): sciberbia Damdred is being piled on. It looks like he might even be lynched. This seems far past the time when Obi should be joking about Damdred being mafia. It's time to get serious. If you truly have nothing against Damdred, why are you adding fuel to the fire? The first post I think has possible townie explanations. Maybe Obi just wanted to know why Stutters would not lynch Damdred. But the second post, where he calls damdred 'plausibly town' is imo very alarming. Stutters replied to Obi and explained why Damdred looks townie. Then Obi says it is plausible that Damdred could be town, but does not want to resolve the issue at present. The tone of this sentence implies Damdred is still a likely contender for mafia, but Obi could see how Damdred might be town. This is inconsistent with what Obi says later about him never really having anything against Damdred at all. It doesn't fit. I hope I'm explaining this well. It's like he stuck his vote on Damdred, a bunch of more votes piled on, and then he just awkwardly justifies leaving his vote on Damdred. WHY ARE YOU JUSTIFYING LEAVING YOUR VOTE ON DAMDRED? IT WAS A TROLL VOTE: THERE IS NOTHING TO JUSTIFY. This is by far the most concerning thing about Obi. 2) He is content to do nothing while there is no pressure on him Look at his next post. On May 19 2015 03:15 ObiWanShinobi wrote: I really want Palmar to do something because I feel like we need a sense of direction, and Damdred's sense of direction involves killing everyone that scumreads him which isn't going to help us. Why don't YOU provide some sense of direction mate? At this point Obi is obviously not trolling anymore, but he's not doing anything else either. He has not given one serious scumread or townread, and he is complaining that Palmar is not giving a sense of direction? Rather hypocritical. He has not gotten any votes on him, and he has not come out of his lurking. Scum often lurk until you give them a reason not to, and Obi fits this profile. 3) He has no sense of urgency, does not seem to care about the lynch, and does not justify his vote at all I have been suspicious of Obi, but I wanted to give him the chance to redeem himself while there was no pressure on him. But let's see how he doesn't contribute to the lynch. I ask him about his actual scumreads and he replies with this: + Show Spoiler + On May 19 2015 13:07 ObiWanShinobi wrote: Eh. I think I'd prefer killing a lurky person at this point like Vivax or smthn. Vivax is the least prone to lurking/being unproductive when he's town and I feel like he'd be trying harder to make this work if he was. If he isn't still purposefully trying to sink his towngames just so his scumgame is better, that is. + Show Spoiler + On May 19 2015 13:37 ObiWanShinobi wrote: There's nothing stopping me from putting both Shocky and Vivax on my scumlist, actually. I might roll with that instead. He says he is suspicious of Vivax and Shocky and leave it at that. It is just so lacking. Where is your vote? Where is you trying to convince other people? The lynch is 12 hours away! His play is completely reactionary and not proactive at all. He mostly only says things when people ask him stuff. For example, I go out of my way to prod him to vote. If I had not, I suspect his vote would still be on Damdred (who he supposedly does not even read as scum). He voted for ShoCkeyy in the voting thread in response to my prodding. Here is the full list of everything Obi has said about ShoCkeyy in this game: + Show Spoiler + On May 19 2015 05:06 ObiWanShinobi wrote: Btw it's really obvious that Shockeyy didn't really read Palmar's post. On May 19 2015 10:55 ObiWanShinobi wrote: Shockey have you played elsewhere before? On May 19 2015 11:04 ObiWanShinobi wrote: @Shockey: No lol, I haven't. I'll go look for it. On May 19 2015 12:29 ObiWanShinobi wrote: I couldn't the answer to the question I asked Shocky. On May 19 2015 13:37 ObiWanShinobi wrote: There's nothing stopping me from putting both Shocky and Vivax on my scumlist, actually. I might roll with that instead. This is unacceptable for a townie. You cannot vote for someone and never mention what makes them scummy to you. This is hopping on the bandwaggon and providing no justification in the extreme. ##unvote ##vote: ObiWanShinobi | ||
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Can you please respond to this post: + Show Spoiler [me] + On May 19 2015 15:25 sciberbia wrote: + Show Spoiler [Oats] + On May 19 2015 13:36 Oatsmaster wrote: Palmar scum. Yup. [b]##vote Palmar[b] Also zealos is scum. Vivax maybe, useless posts. and 'risk''? why does that even mean man. meh, the only thing stopping me is assassination was similar in terms of activity. @Oats Why is Zealos scum? And what happened to me and damdred being scummy? P.S. please put your vote in the voting thread Also what do you think of Obi? | ||
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On May 19 2015 17:57 Onegu wrote: OMFG Sciberia is reminding of BttB mafia. Chills... Well I'll just take that as a complement to my scum play I guess (I was scum in BttB). Thanks Onegu. Anyway, what do you think of what I wrote about Obi? On May 19 2015 18:02 Palmar wrote: Yeah sciberbia is mafia but we'll never lynch him cause his scumgame is a+ so it's fine. Might as well assume I'm town then and hope for the best You're currently a vote-leader fyi. If we lynch you and you flip town I'm going to win extra hard in my next scum game, so please dazzle us with analysis. One-sentence reads are not going to convince anyone you are town. | ||
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On May 19 2015 18:36 Palmar wrote: This is a terrible post too. He's voluntarily offering up information in the thread. I have literally no problem with people being unsure. In fact if he was mafia why wouldn't he just pretend he's sure? Like I explained on the next page or something to Vivax, I didn't have a problem with him being unsure either. I had a problem with the specific way he stated his conclusions. I don't even think he's mafia any more anyway. On May 19 2015 18:35 Palmar wrote: This is super dumb. If I assume sciberbia is not shit which I know he isn't this looks like a mafia post. No one that has a brain would actually think I believe that throwing out a one sentence unexplained 100% read is going to make me look like I'm doing something. I admit I could have been more clear here. I am using 'doing something' loosely. Trolling could be classified as 'doing something'. My main point is that if you are scum, you are not necessarily trying to start a wagon on Damdred by voting him. You could just be doing whatever. | ||
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On May 19 2015 18:51 Oatsmaster wrote: you no more scum. Damdred also probably not scum. Zealos, i dont like that he narrows down his lynches so early and his shitty meta read on Damdred feels really piggybacking off thread sentiment considering he never mentions it again. I agree with your point about him being very narrow-minded as a possible scumtell. But to be fair to Zealos I think he does mention his meta read on Damdred several more times. Anyway what do you think of Obi? | ||
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On May 19 2015 18:54 Oatsmaster wrote: Ok palmar is doing stuff, cool. And different enough from assassination, Im pretty happy. bleh qwerty's filter is really ugly, so is shockeys. Yeah Vivax is it. ##vote Vivax Why Vivax over Zealos? You just seemed to feel pretty good about your Zealos read? I'm going to bed soon. I agree with Oats that Palmar's recent contributions get him out of policy lynch territory. Plus he is agreeing with all my reads so far (except the one on me >_>). So I think the good lynch options right now are Vivax and Obi with a maybe on shoCkeyy. | ||
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I dunno about ShoCkeyy. I really can't figure out if he believes what he's saying or not. | ||
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obi (3): scib, vivax, shockey shockey (2): oats, gb onegu (1): qwerty qwerty (1): onegu damdred (1): zealos not voting: shining | ||
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On May 19 2015 03:10 ObiWanShinobi wrote: It's plausible that Damdred could be town but I'm too preoccupied with important business to fix it until later tonight. You really need to explain these two posts. Here is what it looks like you are doing here: "Stutters, why do you not want to lynch Damdred? I think he might be mafia" "OK Stutters I will admit that I'm not completely convinced Damdred is mafia. However, I'm busy at the moment so I'm just going to leave my vote on him and reconsider later tonight." And if that is really what you meant by these two posts, then you are mafia, because you later said you never had any reason to think Damdred is scum. So explain those two posts please. Why did you post them? | ||
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On May 19 2015 03:10 ObiWanShinobi wrote: It's plausible that Damdred could be town but I'm too preoccupied with important business to fix it until later tonight. What about this though? Generally when you say it's plausible that something could be true, you are saying it is a possibility we need to consider, which implies that the standard position is the opposite. What was your opinion on Damdred's alignment when you made this post? And what was the purpose of making this post? To justify why your vote is still on Damdred? | ||
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On May 20 2015 03:52 ObiWanShinobi wrote: I don't need to justify a vote that obviously isn't serious and I have no idea why you're so hung up on that idea. As for the purpose of it, it was mostly me letting people know that I would return to the thread at a later date to do stuff. 1) You didn't answer the question: what was your opinion of Damdred's alignment when you made that post? 2) Also, what are you referring to "fixing" if not your vote on Damdred? 3) Lastly, why did you want to know Stutters' opinion of Damdred? You never show any interest on Stutters anywhere else in your filter? You never push or defend Damdred. Why, of everything that you could possibly comment on when you returned to the thread, did you want to know Stutters' read on Damdred? | ||
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On May 20 2015 03:51 Palmar wrote: Can we have less talk about things that don't matter and more talk about how much we're going to lynch Vivax? Like I said I'm fine with lynching Vivax. If Obi satisfactorily answers my questions I'll even consider switching my vote. But the elsuive Obi is currently in the thread and I want to know if he's mafia. | ||
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On May 20 2015 04:03 ObiWanShinobi wrote: 1) Maybe town. 2) Changing it I guess. 3) Because stutters said he didn't want to lynch him but didn't explain why. 1) Can you be a little more specific here? On which side of null is "maybe town"? 2) Changing your vote? So you are in fact explaining why you are leaving your vote on Damdred? | ||
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On May 20 2015 04:13 ObiWanShinobi wrote: I don't understand why you're so hung up on me keeping my vote on Damdred anyways. It's really not that big a deal. No the problem is not that you left your vote on Damdred. Here is the problem. You supposedly have a leaning town read on Damdred. However, Damdred is under a great deal of attack from several people in the thread. There are 4 votes on him and it looks like he might even be lynched. Do you defend your townread? No Do you question people as to why they are calling Damdred scum? No You question someone as to why they said they WON'T lynch your town read. That is very odd and not a natural townie instict. The townie instinct if you see one of your leaning town reads being bandwaggoned is to defend him, or at the very least question people who are attacking him. But question people who are defending him? That's just not a natural response. Then your wording as to how Damdred plausibly could be town, under normal usage of this phrase, really implies that you do not think Damdred is town. Finally, it is really awkward that you say this in the context of justifying leaving your vote on Damdred longer. Obi: troll vote on damdred Obi: even though damdred might be town, I'm going to leave my troll vote on him a little longer It really really bothers me. To everyone else, I agree Obi seems carefree/laid back. It is one of the reservations I have about him being mafia. But notice when that now, after I got 3 votes on him, is when he becomes much more active/responsive. It's suspicious. | ||
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On May 20 2015 04:14 Palmar wrote: But you already know whether or not he's mafia?? Dunno what you mean by this unless you're implying I'm mafia. Anyway, what do you think of my last post on Obi? | ||
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On May 20 2015 04:29 Qwerty! wrote: if u want to lynch vivax... you probs should vivax has changed his town playstyle to do zilch and get lynched It's really irritating if he is town because you are supposed to play to win the game. Like it's stated in the rules that you are not supposed to intentionally play like shit. But if you think that he is going to intentionally play like shit as either alignment then I think that is basis for a policy lynch if nothing else. Plus Palmar's points were pretty OK and I was leaning scum on him originally in any case. Dunno if it matters, but I'm just gonna throw my vote on Vivax. I'm not completely confident on Obi, and Vivax should not be allowed to live. He said he would be back between 8pm and 9pm in Austria and it's now 9:30. ##unvote ##vote Vivax | ||
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On May 20 2015 04:37 Zealos wrote: To me though, a mafia who thought he was in risk of getting lynched would be more likely to turn up if he said he would be back to defend himself. I still think its an okay lynch, but I'm not sure that last point really applies Basically what I'm saying is that I'm leaning scum on him, and even if he is town, he is putting in 0 effort and intentionally playing against his win condition, so there's no reason not to lynch him today. | ||
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On May 20 2015 04:39 Vivax wrote: I play to win the game, I just post less and with less effort on D1s until people stop lynching me for inactivity, that's not against the rules, it just furthers my wincon across all my games. Intentionally playing scummy is not playing to win the game Vivax. Getting yourself lynched does not help your team regardless of your alignment. If you're town I'm honestly going to be pretty annoyed. | ||
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I'm just really hoping he flips scum. | ||
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On May 20 2015 04:49 Damdred wrote: Imo if your town game is better than mafia the best thing to do is...get better at mafia. not ruin town game meh Agreed. If the problem is that people are lynching you for inactivity, the simple solution is: never be inactive. It's not that hard. Only sign up for games you have time to play and then play them. On May 20 2015 04:51 GlowingBear wrote: Pre-flip mindnote: if Vivax flip green I'm 200% lynching him day2 200% lynching who? | ||
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I want your thoughts on what I've posted on Obi. You conveniently managed to never mention him. @Onegu Is there anything you want to discuss regarding my play? I'd be happy to try to ease your feelings of paranoia during the night phase. | ||
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On May 20 2015 05:06 ObiWanShinobi wrote: Qwerty's vote looks more like he's trying to look good after the flip rather than actually trying to save Vivax. There was no conceivable way Vivax could have been saved that close to deadline. This is very wrong. Anybody who is not a complete moron would know that nobody is going to say "Great job Qwerty! You knew he was town. If only we had listened to you!" On the contrary, anyone who has played any amount of mafia here should know that people are going to be raising eyebrows at his vote switch. Precisely because it is such an eye-catching and arguably bad play, I honestly think he is town. I'm not saying we should have switched votes or that his vote switch was a good play. But I think he is town. Actually reading his posts on this page I feel pretty strongly that he is town. | ||
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On May 20 2015 05:13 ObiWanShinobi wrote: This is assuming mafia don't do it. Mafia does it all the time. Show me a few examples of mafia spazzing out in reaction to a last second reads post and asking for a vote switch. If you can, then I will consider changing my read on Qwerty. | ||
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On May 20 2015 05:17 ObiWanShinobi wrote: Off the top of my head, Breshke in New Years'. I looked through the game and have no idea what you are talking about. He doesn't look to have done anything similar to what Qwerty did here. Please quote posts | ||
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On May 20 2015 05:26 Onegu wrote: Yeah we are lynching qwerty tommorow There is no ifs and or buts about it. Its done. He has done nothing is jumping around and his big read is a OMGUS on me with very little back up. @Sciberia. Like I dont know just a feeling... Like I just keep flashing back to that game where you got a fake green check... Well I try to imitate my town game when I am scum so it shouldn't be entirely surprising that my play this game (town) reminds you of that game (scum). Anyway, you will also remember from that game that you tunneled town!Mocsta for days. I think you are town here, and I just want you to try to keep an open mind about qwerty because he may or may not be scum. What strikes me as townie is that he is actually annoyed that people didn't switch. It seems like he really really thought that we could switch. Just seems genuine to me. Spur of the moment, appropriate emotion is difficult to fake as scum. On May 20 2015 05:08 Qwerty! wrote: im just kind of annoyed, not that ppl didnt switch, but that people didnt even bother to post and respond to vivax or ask me why to switch On May 20 2015 05:09 Qwerty! wrote: maybe if people actually bothered trying to post there could have been a vote switch... enough ppl were online | ||
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One other thing. I agree with you that his read on you is not very good. But townies can make bad reads. What is impressive is the way that he consistently acts in accordance with that read. It doesn't look fake: On May 19 2015 16:01 Qwerty! wrote: onegu because hes been largely serious (suggests he is scum) and he did not mention being sad about rolling town like hes done in his last many town games... also hes just asking questions and generally not taking stances, plus he advocated plynch and he hates plynches On May 19 2015 16:32 Qwerty! wrote: @everyone i think that onegu is the best lynch today ##vote onegu "lead me, follow me, or get out of my way" - General George Patton On May 19 2015 17:00 Qwerty! wrote: i'm really interested in seeing what others think about an onegu lynch... On May 20 2015 05:08 Qwerty! wrote: vivax wasn't doing anything that made him town but he came back and provided a reads post that i felt was mostly sensible, and i agreed with his onegu read in particular The last quote in particular is impressive. If he is scum, he remembered that he lied about having a scumread on you, and then thought to use that as justification for why he sympathized with Vivax in the spur of the moment. Anyway, I will reread him and think about what you have said about him, but these things make me think he could be town. Again, I'm not saying he is playing well so far or that his read on you is good. But that doesn't make him mafia. | ||
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That's an interesting point. Maybe damdred is scum but if he is he's playing quite well imo. @Damdred Why didn't you want to lynch Obi? | ||
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On May 20 2015 07:08 Damdred wrote: I think Obi is a sub optimal lynch on day one and how he acts around the lynch and during the night is more telling in context then when he's being a bastard under pressure generally. Well now you've seen how he acted around the lynch and at the start of the night. Thoughts? Also do you find anything I posted about him convincing? | ||
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I think we should focus on finding one mafia and only then worry about associations. Work off as few assumptions as possible. Come to think of it, what do YOU think of Obi? I can't recall you ever giving a read on him. | ||
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I'll be around for much of the night phase if people want to chat. | ||
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Why wouldn't you give GB your read on him at the start of the game? Did you ever answer that question? I'm just doing a bunch of rereading and haven't made any conclusions, but it would be nice to get an answer here. | ||
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On May 20 2015 10:41 Oatsmaster wrote: qwertys switch looks really bad, 2bad2bscum is not a thing. This isn't even a 2bad2bscum thing. Changing your vote at the last second to a different candidate isn't a bad play, if you really think there is new information that makes the person you were previously voting more likely to be town. And Vivax turned out to be town. So the case on qwerty, if any, is really 2good2bscum. It boils down to: Do you think it is possible that he really had a change of heart on Vivax and decided Vivax looked more townie? (I do) Do you think it is possible that he really thought a voteswitch was possible? (I do) Do you think that he was trying to make himself look better post-flip by waffling around at the last second? (I don't) The only way you can answer yes to this last question is if you think qwerty is a moron. I could have told you 1000 times out of 1000 that he would get flak for that switch. And at least 3 people have already called him out on it. I know I'm defending qwerty pretty hard but I just have a really gut feel that he is town. I remember this game from forever ago, Newbie Mini XV, in which funnily enough, Vivax self-voted at the end of day 2, and multiple townies suddenly thought he was town, but figured there wasn't time for a vote switch. I feel like I have seen other cases like this as well. | ||
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the case on qwerty, if any, could be more accurately described as 2good2btown I guess, given that Vivax flipped town | ||
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What do you think about what I've said about qwerty since the flip? Do you agree with it? | ||
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On May 20 2015 11:42 Oatsmaster wrote: Well no, some people were bringing up the point that scum wont so obviously switch off a mislynch. I think they would. And it is definitely to make himself look better. There is literally no other reason, as town or mafia to switch so late without other people doing it. Is it not possible that he was trying to get Obi lynched? If he gets like 2 or 3 more people to switch then Obi gets lynched instead of Vivax. There were like 5 minutes left - it's like not completely impossible. Personally I was pretty borderline between the two. I could maybe have been persuaded to switch if Vivax had made a more well thought-out reads post. If qwerty was just doing it to make himself look better I would say he has to be mafia 100%. But I don't see why he can't really have been trying to get Obi lynched. A bit naive/optimistic of him maybe, but I find it plausible. | ||
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Here is the biggest reason I did not want to lynch stutters yesterday. On May 19 2015 01:00 Stutters695 wrote: I'm still waffling over GBs list post. There are glaring inconsistencies I'm surprised no one has noticed, but it just feels town. I need to think on that. His other posting especially is what keeps me from scumming him. This seems really townie to me. In the following analysis, the question of whether there actually were inconsistencies in GB's post is irrelevant. What matters is that, regardless of his alignment, I think it is safe to assume that Stutters really did find things in GB's post that he considered to be inconsistencies. If you are going to make this statement as scum, you would have to be crazy not to have some inconsistencies in mind that you could bring up if GB (or anyone else) calls you out on this. Now if I am scum, and I see glaring inconsistencies in someone's post that nobody has brought up, I am very likely to point them out in order to make myself look smart. Additionally, I would relish the chance to throw dirt on a townie (assuming GB is town). I would probably not keep them to myself, and say that despite the inconsistencies, I just have a gut town feel on the person's posts. It's just a really weird thing for a scum to do. What do you think of this? Other people feel free to comment but I mostly want Damdred's opinion. | ||
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On May 20 2015 13:54 Oatsmaster wrote: I dont think so, qwerty never explained why vivax was suddenly town, or obi was suddenly scum. It really looked a lot to me like qwerty didnt really care whether vivax or obi was lynched and just switched off because he wanted to look good. Well it's possible that you are right and I am wrong. We will just have to disagree on this I guess because that's not the feeling I get. Here is qwerty's explanation as to why vivax was suddenly town to him. Idk if you missed it + Show Spoiler [qwerty] + On May 20 2015 05:08 Qwerty! wrote: he came back and provided a reads post that i felt was mostly sensible, and i agreed with his onegu read in particular one of the reasons i voted for vivax was i saw scrib's post that vivax wasnt here while he said he would be here... but vivax posting nullified that argument the similarities to assassination were very noticeable as well One last thing and then I'll try to stop talking about qwerty. I feel like he could have easily stopped posting after this post 40 minutes to the deadline and looked fine: + Show Spoiler [voting obi] + On May 20 2015 04:19 Qwerty! wrote: It seems that I'm only reading at the rate that you guys are posting... this isn't working. are we actually killing vivax? would much rather kill obi ##vote ObiWanShinobi He voted obi, reasonably justified in doing so since he previously explained why he did not want to lynch vivax. Vivax was still set to be lynched, and even more votes started coming in on Vivax. If qwerty is mafia, he already knows vivax will flip town, so he can just leave his vote on Obi and come out looking 'good' after the flip. Adding his vote as like the 9th vote to Vivax and the swapping back to Obi at the last second just seems like such an unnecessary ploy. | ||
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Who do you think is mafia? Who do you think we should be considering lynching tomorrow? | ||
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1) Let's suppose Stutters, Onegu, and Obi are all town. I ask because I don't think this is out of the question: who would you suggest we look into next? 2) Quick thoughts on Palmar's alignment? 3) Can you just quote the part of my case on Obi that you thought was most convincing? I'm just kinda curious and it might help me focus in on what really demonstrates Obi is mafia (if he is in fact mafia). | ||
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Here is where he draws the idea that you don't like policy lynches On May 20 2015 15:02 Qwerty! wrote: I know that he hates inactives, shown by this post from Student Mafia VIII. | ||
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Qwerty what do? | ||
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On May 19 2015 23:22 Palmar wrote: Why is holyflare being so inactive btw? The only reasonable explanation I can see for this post is that Palmar knows or strongly suspects that qwerty = holyflare. @Palmar Please confirm or deny this when you wake up. | ||
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On May 20 2015 17:16 GlowingBear wrote: Hry!!!!!!! Look at the time!!! 5 am! Best tkme to vigi shoot Damdred Brb ok kthxbai @GB I assume you're just messing around, but if you really are a vig, I think I would much prefer you shooting Obi to Damdred. I'm still rereading but yea. Anyway don't make a decision while you're drunk. How about you set an alarm for an hour before the deadline and get some sleep GB? | ||
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On May 20 2015 01:06 ShoCkeyy wrote: And I'm positive I'm already a mafia lynch tonight even if I make it pass the lynch. I'm just trying to get out as much info on the mafia players of the game while I can. By "mafia lynch" I'm pretty sure he means night target kill. You'd have to be so deluded as a town shoCkeyy to think you will get night killed here. Like, I would be shocked if he is night-killed by mafia no pun intended. Is he really this deluded? Or is he scum hardcore trolling us? @ShoCkeyy Where you at? You said you'd be on later and I have stuff to discuss with you. | ||
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On May 20 2015 19:36 Palmar wrote: Sciberbia is still mafia btw, but remember we never lynch him and lose game. Please confirm or deny what I said about you thinking that qwerty = holyflare. Also, you really owe a look to everything I wrote about Obi. I really want your opinion on it, especially the bit about him saying damdred 'plausibly could be' town, and then justifying leaving his troll vote on Damdred anyway. | ||
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The start of the Vivax wagon is really bizarre. There are 0 votes on Vivax and the lynch seems to be coming down to Shockey vs Obi. Then, Palmar makes a case on Vivax, and shortly thereafter, 4 votes drop on Vivax within the span of 2 minutes of each other: Damdred --> Stutters --> Palmar --> Obi GB makes a good point that Damdred's vote is questionable. Idk if Damdred is scum, because there were serveral things in his filter I thought were townie, but the vote is definitely a bit odd. He had scumreads on shockey, zealos, and obi which he never backed down from, yet he just kinda organizes this voteswitch onto vivax out of nowhere. Stutters, having not said jack shit about Vivax all day, sheeps Palmar's case. Palmar then drops his vote at Damdred's prompting. So, the previous leading candidate was Obi/Shockey. Palmar never even looks at my case on Obi or mentions Obi at all. He also does not seem concerned that Damdred, his other top scumread, is the one organizing the switch onto Vivax. He also does not seem concerned that Damdred is voting Vivax out of nowhere. Kinda sketchy. Like I'm not expecting Palmar to unvote Vivax just because Damdred voted him. But I would have expected Palmar to least raise eyebrows at Damdred's behavior. Instead, he just seems happy to have another disciple for his Vivax case. Lastly, Obi who is clearly trying very hard not to get lynched and paying close attention to the vote count, has left his vote on the Shockey counterwagon to himself until he is assured that the Vivax counterwagon is strong enough. Then he switches his vote. I still kinda think Obi is mafia. Don't really know about Damdred/Palmar/Stutters, as I have reasons to think each of them are town. I think everyone should go back and look at how the Vivax wagon formed though. It just seems really weird to me and makes me think there could have been multiple mafia on it. | ||
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Palmar feel free to read some of my posts and reply with something interesting before I go to sleep | ||
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Scib: Guys I think we should lynch Obi Palmar: We are lynching vivax. He is mafia every time Scib: OK fine *flips town* Scib: Hey Palmar maybe you should read my posts on Obi Palmar: No screw you i don't need to Palmar: And you are still mafia scib Do you not see where I am coming from here? | ||
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Idk maybe I'm just wildly wrong on qwerty but I get a completley different feeling than Obi/Damdred/Oats do from his vote switch. Would be interested to get Palmar's opinion here because I would expect him to agree with me. But if Palmar would read my posts that would just make the game too easy @Damdred Stutters is extremely like detatched from the game (not taking any risks like you said) and I agree it's a bit concerning. I will look at the stuff on his meta but don't have time right now. What do you think of the point I brought up yesterday in his favor? Also, my feeling during rereading was pretty good in favor of Onegu and Zealos being town. | ||
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But OK assuming you're not actually HF and being a lying jerk, I'll go back to my town read on you ^^ | ||
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On May 19 2015 04:01 Onegu wrote: Then he says we should switch to palmar for???? Not really sure I guess because palmar hasnt done anything... @Qwerty I think you may be misreading this quote? You seem to be taking this as Onegu saying that switching to Palmar is bad because palmar hasn't done anything and it's bad to lynch people who haven't done anything. The way I read it, he is saying "I'm not really sure why Zealos is telling us to switch to Palmar. I guess Zealos is saying that we should switch because Palmar hasn't done anything." He's not necessarily implying that lynching Palmar is a bad idea. | ||
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Justifying myself here because I'm worried Onegu is gonna vig me or something. | ||
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On May 21 2015 04:55 Damdred wrote: I think he's always a scary player but looks pretty towny Also this is basically my opinion on Damdred I think. Idk want to reread more but if he's scum he's doing a damn good job. Is Damdred that good at scum? I want to look at one of his scum games at some point. | ||
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ggwp I enjoyed playing and obsing despite the stomp. Thanks for hosting ff and ksc. | ||
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On May 26 2015 11:03 Fecalfeast wrote: + Show Spoiler +1. Aside from the balance, what aspects of the hosting for this game specifically could be improved upon and which aspects were done well? Done well:
Could be improved: More votecounts. Both during D1 and when doing analysis after, I wished there had been more votecounts on D1 in both the game thread and voting thread. Also I would like vote counts in end-of-day posts and in the vote thread at the end of each day as soon as possible. On May 26 2015 11:03 Fecalfeast wrote: + Show Spoiler +2. Do you prefer setups that are open, semi-open, or closed? Why? Generally, the more open the better IMO because I hate host WIFOM. I love full open setups with everything rng'd because then I don't have to analyze what the host would or would not do. Also, I think closed/"balanced" setups give an unfair advantage to players that are more familiar with the host and/or the meta. New players have much less of an idea of what to expect, and are unfairly disadvantaged. The things I don't like about open setups are that they are slightly less exciting and it is harder to make big plays as mafia. I think the former problem can be solved with creative use of rng. There are a lot of setups on mafiascucm you can look at for ideas such as C9++ or matrix6. I think that in a really well designed open setup, it is also possible for mafia to make strategic, smart fake-claims, althought the big play potential will never be quite the same as a closed setup. On May 26 2015 11:03 Fecalfeast wrote: + Show Spoiler +3. I usually have at least one person asking to be spoiled while observing. Do you think it's a good idea to have a separate obs chat for those who want to be spoiled and one where spoilers are not allowed? Is the risk of cheating too great for it to be worthwhile? I think it's fine as is. This game the obs qt was pretty lonely. Put me and JAT in separate obs qt's and you would have gotten even less discussion. I personally don't mind getting some info leaked into the obs qt even when I'm trying to obs without full knowledge. On May 26 2015 11:03 Fecalfeast wrote: + Show Spoiler +4. Assuming it's balanced would you prefer a game with many roles that are weak (mason/inno child/vet/parity cop/watcher etc) or a game with fewer strong roles (cop/vig/doctor/jk etc) on the town side? No strong preference. Fewer strong roles seems easier to balance and what people are used to, so I'm fine sticking with that. On May 26 2015 11:03 Fecalfeast wrote: + Show Spoiler +5. Not modkilling for activity; should I start doing that? I think I prefer not modkilling for (in)activity. I always feel like once there is a modkill the game isn't "legit" anymore. If somebody doesn't post/vote for 1 day but comes back the next day I don't see how it makes any sense to modkill them.. seems like it is just ruining the game. If somebody goes permanently afk, replace if possible but if not, I'm fine with town having to lynch them. If they are town, they hurt their team. Makes sense. I really don't see any good reason to modkill for inactivity tbh. Maybe someone could persuade me otherwise. | ||
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And if you're upset, I suggest you work it out with him in PMs. After suffering through this game that he doesn't seem to have enjoyed, I think the last thing Damdred needs is a bunch of people criticizing him in the post-game. I doubt he would claim that he had a good attitude this game or that he played particularly well (none of us did really). If he wants outside opinions on his attitude/play, he can ask for them. | ||
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