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On April 08 2015 09:12 kitaman27 wrote:
Slam really trashed town's chances of winning the game. I think BH would have been lynched day one if he hadn't claimed and day two VA was essentially the unanimous lynch.
I'm not sure if town actually was capable of lynching batsnacks on day four, but we should have. HF was just being so obnoxious that he was able to get under everyone's skin to a point where most of the town was sick of it. I shouldn't have let him get to me, but I was tired of the flaming from a player who honestly didn't seem to have a purpose for doing so. I kinda question how he played things out considering how easy it would have been to just claim Moriarty and have BH lynched early on in the game.
I know that this has been brought up a ton in the past, but there really isn't a good reason for JAT or HF to have a combined 100 page filter. Discussing things is fine, but a lot of the posts really didn't accomplish anything. I don't mean to attack JAT because he was a good town leader, but when you have a limited amount of time to play each day, it just demotivates you. Even I found myself spamming more than usual this game.
On a side note, I was finding so many breadcrumbs that simply didn't exist. At one point I PM'd rsoul a riddle thinking she was the riddler and HTS a random phrase thinking she was Robin. I was also really paranoid that damdred had to kill me as deadshot XD
I think my reads were fairly decent this game, which I'm only bringing up because of how miserable I have been in my past couple town games. I've seriously been pushing mislynch after mislynch for the last year or so. It's really been a while since I've been able to be fairly right. I almost never have any luck with meta so coming up with the d1 BH post was kinda surprising. I really should have pushed it later in on the game, but the 3P Moriarty threw things off. I was 3/3 on my scum list post with bats, sep, and VA, but I did a pretty poor job pushing things in the thread. It was just so tough to find a good time to do so, on D2 we have the day ending early, D3 we have the easy damdred lynch, and by D4 the game was close to over. I also think I had could have done a better idea of sharing my thoughts more often, rather than sending out PMs.
For me, I found it pretty frustrating how often people were calling me mafia based on some type of paranoia read. I haven't rolled mafia since March 2013, yet I always seem to have trouble getting people to trust me. I'm sure there are others that are probably better at mafia than town that deal with the same thing. It's just annoying to be told that you're mafia because you're still alive when there really that is out of your control for the most part.
Night actions seem to go pretty poorly. That was pretty unfortunate.
On the topic of role claims, there are two sides of this. One, a lot of the mafia team was figured out essentially to process of elimination for who hadn't claimed. On the other hand, it was way too easy for mafia to figure things out. I think you have to find a line in between for what is useful to share. A lot of people just sent me their role as soon as I asked on N1, which was pretty silly. If I had been mafia, I would probably have access to all but VE/yamato/xfire or something like that.
I enjoyed the flavor of my role with the whole witnessing my parents death thing, but I got a bit unlucky picking 3p HF day 1 and then day two ended before I could submit LS. On day three I made a mistake not going with JAT or keir. I was under the impression that yamato would save JAT, but obviously that wasn't the case.
There were some really cool roles this game. I enjoyed the setup, even if it seemed apparent that town didn't have much of a fighting chance for most of the game.
oh btw I may have called your bluff but you were spot on and I knew it.
hence, fear-> not working with people-> loss of head-> all hell breaks loose hijole
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oh yes rofl
that is the coolest thing, anyone else notice that?
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On April 08 2015 10:19 Holyflare wrote:
What would yamatos role ever accomplish by the way...?
It would reset poison, reset abilities, and make him act on the same target again. So if a vigi shot a protected mafia, yamato could roll the vigi back to that phase, and the vigi would shoot the same player again. Or imagine ritoky using up all his heals, yamato resets him to D1 and he can heal again.
On April 08 2015 11:24 Onegu wrote:
So just wondering why majoras mask ha abilities for everyone else who got it but not me. I really wanted to write Who Let the Dogs Out is Confirmed Town!
Majoras Mask just made sure that you could keep your powers past D3. There was nothing else it did for you.
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Just a few thoughts.
Anyone in a Greymist game should never, ever claim his rolename until necessary. Perhaps when it goes towards the end of the game (D4 and later) you can, but before, that's a no go. There are always roles around that can snipe you if your role name is known. Don't do it. See batsnacks Diabolic Edict in this game, or Alakslams role who was partially depending on the planeswalkers to die.
Also, I don't understand why people were claiming abilities left and right for no good reason so early in the game. LightningStrike claiming DT Day 1 was the worst. Ritoky is a close second for claiming his healing abilities to mafia in PM. Unless you're really close to getting lynched, you just don't do it, because it absolutely wastes your role.
On April 08 2015 13:19 gonzaw wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2015 12:54 Onegu wrote:On April 08 2015 12:07 gonzaw wrote:
I think people may have relied too much on "confirmations" using roles/PMs/etc.
Obi was basically assumed confirmed town because of a town check from someone
BH was basically assumed town the last phases because of some PM thing with Onegu (that I still don't understand)
HTS was basically assumed mafia for a while because of some weird night action stuff with Damdred and kita or whatever.
Just ignore all that shit, specially in a Greymist game. I mean, obviously dwell on that stuff and have all the fun you can get with 5th party House Chezinu and sleeper cell and self-redirecting magic-bus-driver and whatever. But for lynching and figuring out alignments....yeah, leave it out. BH tried to help me make a Vigi shot item, and I got a broken mask. But I knew he visited me as mods gave him majoras mask on accident. So I couldn't wrap my head around why scum would try to give me a vigi shot... The sad thing is I would have lynched him had he not accidently been given majoras mask because I would have guessed he didn't visit me and was lying. I pointed this out in Obs QT, but in the 1st Aperture scum Nisani was a claimed inventor who invented ANYTHING town told him to. Vig shots, "color radiator" that netted 3 scum in a single move, and others. So yeah, after that I believe scum would even suck your dick if it was for town approval.
Also, this so much. I was part of the surviving town members in Aperture 1, and I remember how Nisani was just doing everything to get the slightest town cred from us. So yeah, BH helping Onegu getting a vig shot when mafia is in such a comfortable position means nothing.
However, what means something is that BH is a claimed DT (or had access to DT information), and was still alive on D4. That should have rang any alarm bells. LS got NKed N2, so why was BH still alive?
JAT, I was surprised you gave your death mask to ObiWanShinobi. You didn't trust your own red check on Vayne, you didn't trust BH's red check on Vayne (which was legit, despite BH being mafia), but you trusted the greencheck on Obi although it said in LS role PM that the checks might have been tempered with? That didn't make any sense to me.
Well, it was fun cohosting and watching this game, thanks everyone for playing 
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Game over 
I played terrible.
Town could have easily won. BH or VA should have been the D1 lynch. VA cuz marv only. BH cuz it was kinda obvious.
Thx GreYMisT for another incredible game with so much flavor and blue roles. I don't know how you do it. You are very probably a genius.
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On April 08 2015 17:01 phagga wrote:
However, what means something is that BH is a claimed DT (or had access to DT information), and was still alive on D4. That should have rang any alarm bells. LS got NKed N2, so why was BH still alive?
I think you're greatly missing the point.
Assume for a second that BH was town. What information is he actually getting from his role? He *MIGHT* be able to catch someone lying about their role, but for the most part the "role type" says absolutely nothing about whether someone is scum or town. If I had been scum and i knew town had an ability that could check role type, I don't see why I would particularly want to kill them just because of their role.
LS's role was completely different and way, way, way stronger. The reason he died was because his role was strong. BH's was mediocre on average, and just weak compared to other roles.
But, the real reason BH wasn't lynched didn't have anything to do with that anyways. The real reason he wasn't lynched was because of the (fairly logical) assumption that a Moriarty refusing to claim was probably scum, and that it didn't make sense for scum to have a pure role cop AND a "role type" cop.
I'm not sure why HF didn't put it together earlier, though. :D
On April 08 2015 17:01 phagga wrote:
JAT, I was surprised you gave your death mask to ObiWanShinobi. You didn't trust your own red check on Vayne, you didn't trust BH's red check on Vayne (which was legit, despite BH being mafia), but you trusted the greencheck on Obi although it said in LS role PM that the checks might have been tempered with? That didn't make any sense to me.
Even now that we know VA and OWS were both scum, I would *STILL* argue that we played that situation right. The redcheck on VA meant absolutely nothing without any way to confirm the target. 0. Zip. Nada. It was basically saying "There is a scum in this game." And knowing whether marv checked VA or not completely changed the result of JATs check.
From a statistical standpoint, I would even argue that it was very, very unlikely that LS's check hit a frame target. It's hard to quantify it mathematically since we obviously aren't just dealing with randoming someone out of the player list, but in all the time that I've played mafia, I could probably count the number of times that a cop check has hit a frame target on one hand.
It's easy to sit back and say "gosh you played that badly" from the sidelines when you know the correct answer, but I don't think the way we handled that was bad at all.
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I think I like the Commander Gordon role the best. It's quite normal and the idea is pretty awesome. If I ever host a game I might just use that detective role. I love nerfed roles.
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United Kingdom36160 Posts
why didn't you fuckers just kill VA for me?
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On April 08 2015 17:41 marvellosity wrote:why didn't you fuckers just kill VA for me?
Why didn't you just tell jat you were checking him!
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United Kingdom36160 Posts
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On April 08 2015 17:52 marvellosity wrote:
I told you he was mafia.
But notlazy marv doesn't check people that he knows is scum 
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That said, I think we still would have lynched him day 2 even without knowing for sure if you checked him.
Then day 3, Damdred did a good job of throwing enough BS into the thread to make people lynch him instead so that VA would get to use his ultimate.
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United Kingdom36160 Posts
Sad times. Thank god I was smurfing so I don't have you nubs ruining my record 
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United Kingdom36160 Posts
Also amazing effort from Greymist as usual
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On April 08 2015 09:02 Snarfs wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2015 08:51 justanothertownie wrote:On April 08 2015 08:46 Snarfs wrote:
An unknown number of 3rd parties just seems difficult in general for town. Depends. In this game they made the game unwinnable for town (losing in the process) but had they worked WITH town instead then scum would have had a hard time. If slam works with town we do not lose a lynch, we get rid of VA (probably) etc. If Holyflare works with town we get rid of BH 100 % Both would win and be removed from the game so there wouldn't be so many question marks left. Everyone is happy. Except for mafia. Yea, that makes sense. I wish I'd saved chez/marv night 1. I was very close to it but just wasn't confident enough.
why do you have to be confident? I was a really obvious shot, even without knowing who i was.
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On April 08 2015 09:45 Keirathi wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2015 08:43 GreYMisT wrote:
But yea I will be talking about this game and the Aperture series/Hosting themed games in general on the next mafia podcast. So please leave any thoughts here. I am particuarly interesting in things that you found confusing about your role or things that you thought were really cool about the interactions. I would also like to know if there was a mechanic in your role that you found to not be fun to use.
Another thing I want input on is in trhead notification. In chrono trigger and Aperture 1 there was a lot of notification in the thread if an ability was used (such as learning when a yugioh card is played or a pokemon dies), as well as a lot of ##Command abilities. Do you guys find that you wanted these? I really enjoyed the roles and such as a whole. Some constructive feedback on my role specifically: Largest Army: No (reasonable) townie should really ever use that ability. Granted, I never asked for clarification of what "controls the lynch the next day" meant, in a game like this with all of the night actions and KP flying around, a no-lynch is just bad. Even if I had perfect reads, I wouldn't have even considered using it to save myself and I 100% know that I am town. I can't even think of a realistic scenario where it would be worth using. Longest Road: Excellent ability. No complaints there, just sucked that I wasn't able to use it effectively. That was on my for telling BH that I was going to use it though. I should have known something was up when he just immediately said he would trust me after he had been calling me scum all game The cards: I got clarification from geript about how my cards worked. I would have had to not only predict who would be alive (and still have a useful ability) 2 nights into the future, but they also would have had to give up a full night of actions to get an anti-roleblock. That's kind of asking a lot, I think. Using them for roleblocks could have been fine, though!
So I played Settlers of Catan for the first time over the weekend and really enjoyed myself, so I enjoyed seeing this role in the flips when I was reading up on some of the flavour when I got home.
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On April 08 2015 13:16 Keirathi wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2015 13:02 Crossfire99 wrote:
GreY, how did you envision a town using the Strong Bad role? I couldn't figure out what to do with it and did the best that I could lol, which everyone didn't like haha. Could you not have just flipped some variation of your actual role? I think that would have been immensely better. The way you used it just made it HARDER for town, not easier. I'm not sure that we gained anything from your "gimmick". Town already has less information than scum. And it's not like scum even have to react to one of their teammates dying via NK. I dunno, was just a weird ability and weird situation all around I think.
yeah, I talked about this in obsQT. It was an amazingly poor decision to flip as mafia.
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On April 08 2015 17:33 Keirathi wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2015 17:01 phagga wrote:
JAT, I was surprised you gave your death mask to ObiWanShinobi. You didn't trust your own red check on Vayne, you didn't trust BH's red check on Vayne (which was legit, despite BH being mafia), but you trusted the greencheck on Obi although it said in LS role PM that the checks might have been tempered with? That didn't make any sense to me. Even now that we know VA and OWS were both scum, I would *STILL* argue that we played that situation right. The redcheck on VA meant absolutely nothing without any way to confirm the target. 0. Zip. Nada. It was basically saying "There is a scum in this game." And knowing whether marv checked VA or not completely changed the result of JATs check. From a statistical standpoint, I would even argue that it was very, very unlikely that LS's check hit a frame target. It's hard to quantify it mathematically since we obviously aren't just dealing with randoming someone out of the player list, but in all the time that I've played mafia, I could probably count the number of times that a cop check has hit a frame target on one hand. It's easy to sit back and say "gosh you played that badly" from the sidelines when you know the correct answer, but I don't think the way we handled that was bad at all.
I understand that JAT did not trust the red checks in a chaotic game like this. But then why does he trust a green check? And I don't mean "ok that guy is possibly town, if that check was framed we can still deal with him later"-trust, because that I can understand. But "here, take my vigi-and-protection-item"-trust? And in a PM game where everyone shares details about what they are doing with several people, mafia has an easier time framing the right person. Shinobi was under pressure from kita/jat (according to scumQT, 268) and therefore they assumed that he would be checked that night, hence the frame.
I just wanted to point it out because it was a single decision by one person that had quite an impact on the game (VE got killed instead of potentially a mafia, leading to 5-5-1 instead of 6-4-1 on D4).
I know its easier from the sidelines. There are a lot of other actions I don't understand, but I know myself that things are different if you know nothing about the game. Who knows what I would have done in that situation.
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Pretty sure that we would have lynched VA if the day didn't get shortened.
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On April 08 2015 18:23 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2015 09:02 Snarfs wrote:On April 08 2015 08:51 justanothertownie wrote:On April 08 2015 08:46 Snarfs wrote:
An unknown number of 3rd parties just seems difficult in general for town. Depends. In this game they made the game unwinnable for town (losing in the process) but had they worked WITH town instead then scum would have had a hard time. If slam works with town we do not lose a lynch, we get rid of VA (probably) etc. If Holyflare works with town we get rid of BH 100 % Both would win and be removed from the game so there wouldn't be so many question marks left. Everyone is happy. Except for mafia. Yea, that makes sense. I wish I'd saved chez/marv night 1. I was very close to it but just wasn't confident enough. why do you have to be confident? I was a really obvious shot, even without knowing who i was.
I think it was just a mistake to save Koshi over you. My bad.
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EPT
