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I was planning on doing a more fleshed-out post of my thoughts / motivations / opinions, but I realized trying to do that during a single lunch break wasn't really working out. So I'll do it piece by piece, and post them as I have the time.
And as an aside, I'm somewhat a stickler for precision.
I made a post about my thoughts on Palmar's interpretation on GB because I felt that it was, in fact, a weak observation. And when I say weak, I'm not trying to diminish the Palmar's contribution to the thread. I'm pointing out that I feel that the observation is not that alignment indicative. The comment GB made could have easily stemmed from perhaps unpleasant past game histories where an Obi vs HF discussion ruined his enjoyment of the game.
It's quite the stretch to suppose GB is actively shutting down discussion with that one comment.
In fact Palmar himself cedes this point 10 minutes later.
On April 07 2015 19:52 Palmar wrote:
Meh, maybe I am nitpicking, but it's the best I've got at the moment.
I made my post because I felt that other players may also have, what I think, misinterpreted how p8-9 played out (or maybe not even have read it for themselves but took Palmar's word for it). And I believe to some degree, most of the first half of D1 was like that.
Now through a back and forth between GB and Palmar, there arose, I believe, another layer of misunderstanding / misinterpretation. From GB's perspective, the only way that Palmar's accusation makes sense, would be that he is scum, shutting down discussion as to not draw attention to his teammate. This is reasonable - I'm not saying that this is true, but I can see how a town player could see things as such. Palmar however took that as a misinterpretation of his argument, and from then on called GB scum for that. I think this too is reasonable - I'm not saying this accurately reflects the situation, but I can see how a town player could see things as such.
I didn't bother giving a fleshed out read on Palmar because I wasn't heavily decided on his alignment one way or another. You can see from the general tone of my first post that I was leaning on the part of suspicion, but you can see from my lack of Palmar read that I didn't really think he must have been scum at that point. It's not effective for me to say "hey guys, I feel so-so on Palmar, since I could see it as town or mafia aligned" so I chose not to comment further.
And at this point I'm still only soft leaning town on him (town for his presence and activity, leaning because I just don't see GB's posts the way he does). I don't think GB is intentionally misinterpreting his accusations, and I think from GB's general behavior (sans his Palmar interaction) has been pretty good.
I'll post more soon. Feel free to discuss or reserve your judgement until I post more. This post is only part 1.
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11589 Posts
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DR so far you didn't post scumreads.You gotta understand that doesn't make you look good, I still don't get who you think is mafia from your fitler.
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Eden. Do you think GB does more than scratching the surface?
Look at his initial HF is scum because teasing Obi. Nothing really came from it.
Look at when he townreads HF. At that point HF just started his game. Nothing else. Obi called GB rightfullyout on his townread.
Look at his Damdred read. Never was it real pressure. It starts on page 1 of his filter and when does it gets anything real? Does it at all?
Look at how he calls my entrance scummy. He gets then pressured on it and produces a false meta of a game that I never played. Never came back on this mistake. Is that a solving townie mindset? Anyway, he doesn't touch me anymore after that.
Then there are a SHITTON of random "hey you, what is your read on x" But never does GB do anything with the answer he got from that player, or the read given by the player. Because in the end he doesn't really produce any list or shows that he is PoEing this game.
On April 08 2015 04:23 GlowingBear wrote:
It is also odd that Palmar has no opinion on Eden.
On April 08 2015 04:27 GlowingBear wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2015 04:24 Koshi wrote:
No it isn't. I also have no opinion on Eden. Maybe a slight townread. But hey. Not posting doesn't help him. It is. Eden has posted very content less posts, but palmar treats him differently. This double standards reinforces the scenario where palmar is Mafia.
On April 08 2015 04:30 GlowingBear wrote:
Argh, too many scummy people
These 3 posts just seem so fake. And it happened 3 times already. (obi callout on hf, wrong meta on me)
On April 08 2015 07:58 GlowingBear wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2015 06:52 Damdred wrote:
Theres a fw reasons I voted for GB, some of which was calling palmar mafia after town reading him and voting him over his top scum read at the time. His initial postings towards HF and obi felt weird and this is pretty well documented in my filter.
Ritoky is just a gut town read so far, hes pretty trolly and laid back which is a meta read.
But you dread I like your posts, like you just calling me out trying to get more reads I like that. You know very well I do 180 reads Damdy, you can't be town this game. I'm voting you.
The reason why GB is voting Damdred is bullshit. Damdred called GB out on something LEGIT SCUMMY. Then he brushes it away a bit too easy.
On April 08 2015 08:33 GlowingBear wrote:
Eden your townreads are weird
On April 08 2015 10:18 GlowingBear wrote:
This game is boring. I stated two or three times that Eden has problems in his scumreads and nobody asked me why.
Nobody is really trying to play this, sadly.
Bullshit and fake. We have to drag out answers out of him? Why? Fuck you GB. You have to give them to us and then complain or stfu. Can't complain about people now playing when he isn't playing himself.
On April 08 2015 13:22 GlowingBear wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2015 13:12 Eden1892 wrote:On April 08 2015 13:09 GlowingBear wrote:On April 08 2015 12:08 rsoultin wrote:On April 07 2015 13:32 GlowingBear wrote:On April 07 2015 13:28 GlowingBear wrote:On April 07 2015 13:27 Holyflare wrote:On April 07 2015 13:26 GlowingBear wrote:
So, first page of the game and we already have an Obi VS Holyflare discussion. Sigh. more reads more knowledge more winning why so sad? Because deja vù  By the way, I'm vigi again. Tell me your scumread so I can shoot him at night and shout at you all game long This is actually what you like to do when you're mafia. Tease obi. Explain this please, GB ^^ HF as Mafia would tease obi in order to guarantee a shitfest. He enters in an argument with obi, obi gets angry because HF is nitpicking him and gives up / start arguing with HF in an useless discussion, disorganising town. Check Hearthstone Mafia for a precedent. you don't think town!HF would just fuck with him for a bit at game start though? I see where you're coming from but it doesn't really seem to have had the intended effect It was just a way I found to keep generating discussion. However, if he kept teasing obi, this would fit perfectly. The thing is that his game thing seems like a good plan to me and it hardly fits any Mafia agenda. That's why I'm willing to call him town for now. The game have yet to begin, though.
Bullshit.
On April 08 2015 13:41 GlowingBear wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2015 13:39 Eden1892 wrote:On April 08 2015 13:32 GlowingBear wrote:On April 08 2015 13:09 Eden1892 wrote:On April 07 2015 13:26 GlowingBear wrote:
So, first page of the game and we already have an Obi VS Holyflare discussion. Sigh. I know this has been talked about already but: GB what was the point of this? HF and Obi looked like they were joking and then you suddenly seemed really seriously upset about it. You went on to say something about "deja vu" but I dunno what you're referencing. This post seemed a bit out of place so... what's goin on here? On April 07 2015 13:37 Damdred wrote:
No seriously what's the point of you pushing on hf when he's trying to get information out of someone. So what the thread took a serious turn you just drew the conversation away from potential information into more joking.
I don't see why a town would want less information in thread at this point. This is similarly weird because I didn't see how HF was trying to get information out of anyone or doing anything really but fucking around. And I don't see how GB turned the conversation back to joking around? In fact it was kinda the opposite, GB got serious in a way that felt a bit off tonally when HF was joking around with Obi. On April 07 2015 14:03 GlowingBear wrote:On April 07 2015 13:55 Damdred wrote:On April 07 2015 13:48 GlowingBear wrote:On April 07 2015 13:44 Damdred wrote:On April 07 2015 13:41 GlowingBear wrote:On April 07 2015 13:37 Damdred wrote:
No seriously what's the point of you pushing on hf when he's trying to get information out of someone. So what the thread took a serious turn you just drew the conversation away from potential information into more joking.
I don't see why a town would want less information in thread at this point. Serious turn? They were joking at each other. How can the "wambulance" gather useful information? The most serious post here was about HF teasing obi. You disagree with this? My post is the most serious. But you jumped in instead of seeing where it would go Damdy, I made a joke. I didn't ask them to stop talking. You're nitpicking something that has no significance. You also avoided answering my question. Why? which part? How obi hash left the thread after you interjected and called hf mafia somewhat? We lost information idk what question I'm avoiding I asked what you think of what I said about HF teasing obi. I don't understand what kind of information you were expecting from that discussion. Also, if you think that HF was getting information out of obi and that obi took the chance to get out of the thread because I said HF is mafia, do you think obi is mafia? This is a pretty good sequence IMO by GB. Damdred never answers this from what I can see in his filter, there's this half-answer in Damdred's post when he returns but it's not really a direct response. I think that makes Damdred a little suspicious because his initial assessment about what GB was doing was wrong and it looks like he was just taking the chance to pile on GB when he could. Based on these posts GB is actually probably town and Damdred is slightly suspicious. I haven't gotten to the part where everyone decided GB is mafia but I already think it's wrong, so that could be fruitful. I had nothing in mind when I posted that, I just thought it was a funny thing to point out. The déjà vu thing is exactly that: I always see them engaging that kind of argument. So, after these considerations of yours, what are your updated reads? You are probably town, Vivax looks alright, Palmar looks not so good, Damdred looks not so good. Das it mayne Explain to me why Vivax looks alright now and why you scumread him before
you know he is calling you mafia the entire time right, Eden?
Anyway.
I don't believe GB is town. But maybe he is trying to solve the game. I don't know.
Best reason why I think GB is mafia ↓
+ Show Spoiler +Game balance indicates that there is a scum vigi and look here: On April 07 2015 13:28 GlowingBear wrote:Show nested quote +On April 07 2015 13:27 Holyflare wrote:On April 07 2015 13:26 GlowingBear wrote:
So, first page of the game and we already have an Obi VS Holyflare discussion. Sigh. more reads more knowledge more winning why so sad? Because deja vù By the way, I'm vigi again. Tell me your scumread so I can shoot him at night and shout at you all game long
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Yeah. GB is the true celebrity lynch here.
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DUDE LOL. It was such a long time ago that I played with this guy but the latest post reminded me totally of him.
Sharrant?
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11589 Posts
On April 09 2015 03:29 Vivax wrote:
DUDE LOL. It was such a long time ago that I played with this guy but the latest post reminded me totally of him.
Sharrant?
nooooooooooooooooo
nooooooooooooooo
plz no
I mislynch that guy like fucking crazy
plz no
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Yes I understand that I have been holding cards close to my chest.
I'll be playing them out one by one as I craft my posts.
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11589 Posts
Why would Sharrant smurf though?
Guy literally never played scum
zz
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Consider saying who you are in or before 80 minutes.
Because Europe will go to bed.
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Well seeing as how people's bedtimes are different from mine, I'll rush out this post and hopefully it will capture my general opinions, and I'll be here later to clarify for the people who will be on later.
My strongest scum read at this point is Vivax. It's not for any single incriminating post, but a result as using process of elimination of town reads.
On a general observation of Vivax, he is definitely present and posting in thread. However I find that many of his posts are general "I like this" or "let me repeat what this other guy said". I don't get the sense of him trying to convince someone of anything, but rather making comments as to appear active.
Secondly, it seems he is more interested in figuring out my real identity rather than figuring out my alignment. He has made several guesses at who I could be, but has yet to engage anyone in figuring out what my alignment is. Again, this ties into the first point, which is that he gives off a "backseat" playstyle, where he watches people do their thing, but doesn't really seem to be trying to figure things out, or if he has, convince others.
Last, watch how he came to land his vote on me.
On April 08 2015 19:51 Vivax wrote:
Count me in on the lynch DR club. On April 08 2015 19:57 Vivax wrote:
Didn't understand shit of how the stuff Palmar said makes GB mafia, I'm moving to DR.
So he equates my lack of understanding (or to be clear, agreement) of Palmar's case on GB with scummy feigned ignorance of sorts.
30 minutes later?
On April 08 2015 20:34 Vivax wrote:
List time? List time.
Meh pile:
GB - Palmar had a point with him staying on the sidelines in the Obi vs HF matter. His argument that he has to be scum with one of them to be scum doesn't hold water. But Palmars last post on him with all the believing shit sounds like Palmar made something massive about something he could have said in a single line, and I don't see that being the scummiest post in the thread.
Palmar - Back into meh pile for the confusing post nobody understands. I have seen such a post on marv in a game a while ago. Palmar wasn't mafia but he also wasn't right. So you become meh.
Scummy:
Dread Return - Feels like he only commented on one thing in a tryhard fashion simply cause it was the thing most people seemed to pay attention to. Question to Damdred seemed disconnected but he justified it in a believable way. The issue remains that he only paid attention to that one matter which is a scum trait in my opinion. Also doesn't want to give a read on Palmar in the process of arguing that he misconstrued GB.
GB somehow moves into the null pile, even though Palmar's original case against GB should still be considered legitimate and applicable at this stage. I mean, if you are going to call someone scum because they don't agree with case, then you must believe that the case is legitimate. Alas, the case wasn't really resolved yet GB moves into the null pile, because Palmar's last post seems like a stretch. Disconnect - why are the two related? How does one weak point of a case discredit the rest of the case, especially if you so strongly believe it to make reads off of it?
Palmar moves to the meh pile - for what? One post that seems like a stretch? Again, if Vivax is putting so much weight on Palmar's case on GB, how is he dismissing it all for such a minor point? I mean, look at that flip-flop! "Palmar's last post is meh. Anecdotal evidence. Meh"
The last post on me is summed up as "he didn't post - must be scum" - and yet he mentions nothing of my lack of understanding Palmar's original case, which is the first thing that he mentioned when jumping on mention of my bandwagon. This seems like a huge oversight in consistency.
So all in all I feel like Vivax is doing enough to be seen as active in thread while not really participating, and making sketchy calls as he goes along with general thread sentiment.
##Vote: Vivax
p.s. I have more thoughts but I tried rushing the most important parts out - I'll have more later.
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Oh wtf Koshi already made a similar case ...
Well then I feel even better about this.
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Oh and as a quick aside for you Koshi,
That cryptic post of mine with 1) 2) 3) - it was to hint my intentions as to why I would be asking Damdred a question.
There's a GB wagon. I think he is town. Looks like a mislynch - let's see how it started. Oh Damdred. Time to get a better read on him.
I laid out the general steps without filling in the details to see who was reading my posts carefully / who just dismissed them.
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I still don't like a Vivax wagon.
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zzz. Literally. I'm going to sleep and keeping my vote where it is. One scumread and it's on me. DR has a completely incomplete and overfocused view of the game. Seems like lazy scum.
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If you lynch me while I sleep make sure to vig him or lynch him tomorrow.
In case I die I say gg in advance.
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On April 09 2015 04:28 Vivax wrote:
zzz. Literally. I'm going to sleep and keeping my vote where it is. One scumread and it's on me. DR has a completely incomplete and overfocused view of the game. Seems like lazy scum.
Why lazy scum instead of lazy town, and why is overfocused scummy?
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Honestly I suggest we all just flip over to Holyflare and kill him while he's not looking.
He's mafia, but even if he somehow isn't killing him will be fun.
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11589 Posts
No, we're still lynching DreadReturn.
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yamato. I will follow you because you said sweat things to me this game.
I just want to point out GB is scum vigi. But I don't think even I have the balls to lynch him. Well. I have the balls.
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EPT
