+ Show Spoiler +On April 10 2015 13:47 Tubesock wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2015 13:33 Breshke wrote:
Hey tube.
What do you think or prplhz? You have me and soren as town reads and we seem to disagree on him so far whats your opinion? Prplhz seems carefree and saying things to further discussion and whatnot. The problem is like HTS and Rsoultin it isn't anything that I don't think he can do as scum. I don't understand his Bourneq stuff. Or at least how it's less scummy than Postpol or bloodydwarf. He scums Bourneq for not caring about his post, but then doesn't care at all that Rsoultin said she would lynch HTS for being townie? Isn't that weird? I'd place you in the same category (can't town due to fear) but your post about BloodyDwarf I don't see can come from scum. You talked about how he is probably playing like that because of the SC2 arcade, but then say he's still scum for HTS' points. I think if you were scum you wouldn't consider him town at all. If you are scum, you're making it harder on yourself to lynch him. Hence my town read on you. Soren is digging in and following through with people more than he would need to as scum. On April 11 2015 01:22 Tubesock wrote:
Why am I the only one towning Breshke for his waffling on Dwarf? He has like 4 posts about Dwarf considering his actions. He's showing more indepth digging than a lot of you are. What would mafia!breshke gain from this? I'm missing something here. I have a hard time seeing mafia!Breshke waffling like this.
TheBloodyDwarf: What are your reads? Who is your primary lynch target? You have some time to prove your towniness and you do have some support so it shouldn't be too difficult, you have something like 30 hours left. I'll remove my vote on you, but until you show some reads and critical thinking you are still my likely lynch.
##Unvote On April 11 2015 19:35 Tubesock wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2015 09:10 plotspot wrote:On April 11 2015 08:57 Half the Sky wrote:I also don't like how plot said that TBD was a victim. When two posts prior, he says this. On April 10 2015 09:34 plotspot wrote:
Why joke vote? It will stand as long as nothing else happens. It's not like Ace1312 feels totally threatened. At this time Bourneq will burn. Or even BloodyDwarf who a few people have on their list for certain acceptable reasons.
It's a bit contradictory in logic. I think the word "acceptable" is the bad boy here right? I should have written "acceptable for them, in their kind of logic, to which I can agree to a certain degree, but not nailingly sure for me". I think Dwarf is a victim because, he has to justify himself and looks helpless, but that's also because he hasn't post alot right? Show nested quote +On April 11 2015 07:43 plotspot wrote:On April 10 2015 15:09 jarjarbinks wrote:On April 10 2015 08:41 plotspot wrote:
prplhz is 100% town. I can smell it.^^ Plot, can you explain why you think this? I'm assuming you didn't actually 100% believe it, but you just think he's town. Also, what do you think of dwarf and onegu so far? + Show Spoiler +whoa a post from the past.^^ How should I answer this. There is a world of mind. A world of speech and a world of action. I certainly said prplhz is town, I think his early initiative and throrough way of examination befits that of a townsperson caring for the town. about Dwarf I don't know, looks like a victim so far. Onegu? 70% town. I think the host screwed up. Everybody is town^^. Or he is lazy giving out the roles according to the order on the front page.^^ This should be easy. Man don't read anything from this, I just enjoy the game ok?^^ I mean I observe, this game it really helps to know the posting style or habit or a person. I really cringe at some conclusion about me, you are all paranoid.^^ Ok, I don't have the super reading powers. I just know that Half the Sky and Soren thinks 100% that I'm town. Make of it what you can. On April 10 2015 23:00 Half the Sky wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2015 21:00 plotspot wrote:
Guys I'm at work, tonight when I have time I will try to detail out whats needed. Still concerning Onegu, before it crosses to real life, I said he was PLAYING LIKE a fucktard (for the couple of first posts that I saw at that moment), not that he is one. And he knows it. Judging by his tone he isn't offended. How is perceived poor play alignment indicative? IIRC you were scumreading or calling out scum behaviour based on him "playing like a fucktard?" Especially in a newbie game - yes I know Onegu is not a noob but the point still stands - how are you distinguishing between poor play and scum play? Wait. I didn't call him scum. I think you are awfully suspicious for talking like you know I'm 100% town. That's my original quote On April 10 2015 08:12 plotspot wrote:
I'm considering changing my vote to Onegu. He's playing like a fucktard. But of course I'm still not sure whether it's his strategy or him inadvertently not "getting" some of the things. I only said I considered switching my vote, because he made 2 strange mistakes, like wanting a voting thread or saying I didn't explain myself to prplhz when easy checking could have confirmed I did. It was very early in the game, but why am I explaining things, isn't the uncertainty what he is obvious in the quote? These reek of covering his ass as mafia. It's pretty waffly. I think it's different than how Breshke waffled on Dwarf though. I feel like Breshke didn't actually care what people though of his waffle. Yet, this is very much defensive. On April 15 2015 05:24 Tubesock wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2015 05:20 The Shining wrote:
Yeah wow mind meld moment.
I'm actually interested in what Tube and Stutters have to say about Bresh D2. Im still on Dwarf but I could move to Bresh.
Kind of disappointed that Prpl and JJB aren't here, either. They are still question marks for me and not in a good way. Don't move to Breshke. He hasn't been leading town at all but I've liked all the interactions I've had with him and with others. He's been a useful sounding board. Definitely worth more to keep around that Dwarf.
Within the spoiler are times before this phase where tube gives a read on me. They are all town but that is not necessarily important. Look at the logic. Look at his reasons for the read. In every case it shows logic which you i think most people would agree with or at least come to an understanding of how he could see it that way. He also makes clear conclusions from every point he brings up.
Moving onto this phase we have this post.
On April 16 2015 18:01 Tubesock wrote:I think I know what's going on. While I think I'm right, I will acknowledge I was wrong on TheBloodyDwarf. I don't always get all the scum, but I at least get two. Anyway, what I'm thinking. Soren333 was widely towned. Others too probably but I think he was the most towned. In his filter he scummed TheBloodyDwarf, Onegu, Prplhz, Slotspot, and Bourneq. Holyflare subs in. So, doubly obvious night kill. Half the Sky was also widely towned. Trfel and many others of you already agreed she was the obvious night kill. What were her big things? Big case on Onegu. Who was under suspicion? Breshke. Who was scumread? Bourneq. Plotspot. Show nested quote +On April 12 2015 06:01 LoneMeow wrote:
plotspot the Vanilla Townie is lynched!
Final vote count:
TheBloodyDwarf (1): Soren333, Breshke, Tubesock, The Shining, Tubesock
Breshke (0): Onegu
The Shining (1): plotspot
Bourneq (0): prplhz
plotspot (7): Onegu, Breshke, rsoultin, prplhz, Bourneq, Soren333, Stutters695, jarjarbinks, Half the Sky, Onegu
prplhz (0): TheBloodyDwarf
Stutters695 (4): prplhz, Tubesock, TheBloodyDwarf, Half the Sky
Here's Half the Sky's assessment of Onegu's vote: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/480171-newbie-student-mafia-vii?page=61#1220 I also think that Onegu's vote on Breshke was a joke. He didn't say hardly anything about it (typical Onegu behavior though) and then came in calling us idiots for not being on the "scumclaim". I asked him where his vote was and then "oh "forgot" ##Vote:  lotspot. I think he was obviously looking to change his vote, that vote wasn't serious at all. Patterns.... TheBloodyDwarf Show nested quote +On April 15 2015 06:01 LoneMeow wrote:
TheBloodyDwarf the Vanilla Townie is lynched!
Final vote count:
TheBloodyDwarf (5): Bourneq, The Shining, Tubesock, rsoultin, Trfel
Breshke (0): rsoultin
The Shining (1): Breshke , rsoultin, Trfel , TheBloodyDwarf
Bourneq (1): prplhz
Half the Sky (0): prplhz, rsoultin, Tubesock
prplhz (4): Stutters695, jarjarbinks, Half the Sky, Breshke
Stutters695 (0): Breshke
Stutters695 while vigi shot, there is still information. It's not as solid or anything, but things of note. He scummed Breshke. Trfel also said Stuters695 was on his most suspicious list before Stutters died. Breshke last words about Stutters while alive were "I can't vote him now but I hope I don't regret it." then votes The Shining. I'll have individual cases on the three as well tomorrow. We have time to talk about it.
First reason for cumming me in this post is that HTS had me in her suspicious section.
Under review:
Breshke - D1 activity okay, D2 activity illogical, need to check town meta
Tubesock - Trace all read progression. Did town him for tinfoil/GF theories, but needed to see how he drove the Dwarf lynch. Need to review why he dropped prplhz as a scumread.
Shining - Super low activity from him and Ace. Meta-ed him post-lynch and didn't look good but need to check latest posts.
I do not see how he finds this a reason to scum me when he himself and the other UN COUNTER CLAIMED pr are also in this list. This is not a logical conclusion that someone would make.
Im skipping the joke vote from onegu on me because I doubt that was a joke vote more likely onegu just lost interest and it is so so so unlikely if i was mafia id be mafia with onegu/trefel.
Last in this post he refers to me saying I could not vote stutters yet fails to explain how this would make me scum. He doesn't even draw the conclusion that this would make me scum he simply states that it was something i said. How does this add to his case? Why did he bring it up if he then didn't further refer to it in his later case on me? This obviously was not a very important point to him so why did he point it out.
+ Show Spoiler +On April 17 2015 02:57 Tubesock wrote:Breshkeis mafia. I think his actions so far in the game show mafia intent. I want you guys to reread Breshke again. 1. Vote progression Day 1. I already linked the Day 1 final vote. Note he voted TBD, says well maybe he's lynchbait, then parks his vote on Plotspot who was also lynchbait. This could be towny. Add this up to the rest of his actions though. While town!Breshke is capable of this so is Breshke. 2. Vote Progression Day 2. Removed votes on The Shining and Stutters695 and ends up on Prplhz because that's + Show Spoiler [what he would have wanted] +On April 15 2015 10:33 Breshke wrote:So i want to explain my EoD actions because not many people seem to be understanding. There was three wagons. Shining, who i think is scum Prp, who i was null town leanish/hadn't looked into much since D1 TBD who I had no diea about. It was obvious to me that the shining misslynch was not going to go through. The only person whow anted it in the thread as much as i did was trefel. After realising i would not get the lynch i wanted i assessed the other two wagons. Rso and shining were both voting on TBD. If shining is scum RSo is most likely his partner because the way is ee it she stopped im from getting lynched EoD. That coupled with the fact with how fast she flipped her read on me while seemingly calling me town all game leads me to think they are both scum. This lead me to the conclusion that i would rather lynch Prp than dwarf because if shining and rso are scum they would not BOTH be voting their scum partner TBD therefore it would be more likely that prp was scum than TBD Show nested quote +On April 15 2015 10:15 rsoultin wrote:
tbh i've cooled down a little -_- but i was pissed off that he was like fuck you anything you want i don't lol >< right after i said he'd had no time to defend himself so i wasn't going to push his lynch...no i may not have been able to get the votes, but i could have damn well tried and probably gotten close at least >< whatever
his play makes sense as town from the assumption that shining and i are scum -shrugs-
if anything i'm confused about the apparent strength of his scumread on shining that it provoked that reaction, because when he left the thread he made it sound like it was policy and nothing more I honestly don't know where the bolded part has come from but I want you to know whatever your alignment and whatever my allighnment this is not how i was trying to come across to you. I hoenstly did not think you would get enough votes on me and i was having a hard enough time actually finding someone i thought was scum after i flipped on bourne so i wasn't interested in trying to defend myself with like half an hour left when i felt it wasnt necessary and there was more important things to do. Interesting post. He has demonstrated that he was scumming Shining for reasons. The weird thing though is he was also "scumming" Rsoultin for basically for: On April 15 2015 05:28 Breshke wrote:
RSO could easily be scum here for thinking i was town enough to vote shining straight after i do.basically cheerleadering.me then trying to wagon me with shining when she thinks i.womt rock up(won't wake up??). But later Rso posts quite a few quotes where she says she's scumming him. So, uh it's not like he's reading the thread that well. Or misrepresenting it. So is this a reason to scum her AND also vote to kill a townlean over a "I have no idea on"? He knows both Prplhz and TheBloodyDwarf are town. How careful does Breshke have to be? This looks like scum keeping his excuses open and his miss lynches available. This is also a great example to show that he isn't really trying to solve the game. 3. Bluehunting Stutters695 + Show Spoiler [Bluehunting] +On April 12 2015 11:28 Stutters695 wrote:
Assume I'm town for a second(you'll see why d2). Prpl tries to switch the wagon onto me. From a scum perspective: He mislynches me (I get harder to mislynch as the game goes on generally) On April 13 2015 08:48 Breshke wrote:
I am really interested what stutters means by the bolded.. On April 13 2015 14:25 Breshke wrote:
Also i kind of want to vote stutters until he explains why we would all understand he was town on D2 because there's no point pretending he didn't say that. Bluehunting again. Apparently, Breshke expected Stutters695 to respond "I'm totes DOC/VET/MEDIC/WHATEVER" but instead got: On April 14 2015 10:33 Stutters695 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2015 10:31 Breshke wrote:
Stutters have you seen the reason why I am voting you? Sure have. WIFOM son. Am I blue, am I VT? Who knows, but my posting should make it pretty obvious I'm town. On April 14 2015 11:03 Breshke wrote:
I was voting him because of some comment he made in which he basically softed power role. He seemed to ignore the question when he first came back yesterday so that made me even more intrigued but i like his recent answer and am willing to let it slide until next day phase.
##Unvote What exactly did town!Breshke get from this exchange? What did Breshke get? 4. Setup Speculation + Show Spoiler [RB claim etc] +On April 14 2015 12:25 Breshke wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2015 12:20 rsoultin wrote:On April 14 2015 11:37 Breshke wrote:On April 14 2015 11:27 Stutters695 wrote:On April 14 2015 11:03 Breshke wrote:On April 14 2015 10:51 Half the Sky wrote:Breshke, what are your thoughts on Stutters's latest comments? I honestly was going to case him based on his voting plotspot, and then realising he was in the thread, decided it'd be more efficient directly asking him xD On April 14 2015 10:26 Stutters695 wrote:On April 14 2015 09:59 Half the Sky wrote:
Stutters, you still in thread? I wanted to ask you two key questions regarding your actions D1.
D1, you expressed that Breshke was mafia. You considered prplhz and plotspot for lynch. You pushed Breshke in two posts, and I know you were AFK a bit from the thread D1, but ultimately voted plotspot after a load of people had done so.
I have two questions for you.
1 As a veteran, why were you so sure that plotspot was scumclaiming and not martyring? I understand some vets are familiar with martyring happening and prp has brought it up himself.
2 I know someone else queried you on it but I'm not seeing the response in your filter - had your thoughts on Breshke changed since D1? And if you were sure of Breshke, why didn't you push him further D1? 1. I wasn't. D1 is a bitch and I hate it. Once it was obvious Bresh/Prpl weren't options, I wanted to see one of the newbies hang because if one of them didn't, we'd be in the same predicament d2 and had basically wasted d1. I've played enough games where people martyr/give up as scum once caught early that I really don't know what to think anymore. 2. I've learned pushing lynches that won't happen just distracts town. Especially on d1 when we can afford a mislynch. I'd rather have a mislynch on someone I can't read, but I think is scum than someone I don't think is scum because I split a wagon, when d1 is a crapshoot anyway. They have changed due to his n1 posts, but I still want to see more out of him to decide. Considering you are the lead proponent of his lynch and (I could be wrong here?) you have yet to play with him, so... I was voting him because of some comment he made in which he basically softed power role. He seemed to ignore the question when he first came back yesterday so that made me even more intrigued but i like his recent answer and am willing to let it slide until next day phase. ##UnvoteI currently want to lynch bourne but i need to read what rso wrote about him again and also read your case on him. Also i think it is safe to infer we have a etup with a veteran and not a medic as noone has claimed roleblocked meaning scum most likely roleblocked HF which they would only do if they feared he was a vet. Or maybe a vigi but i find that less likely. Why? Who is going to prot the new guy? Roleblocks are notified. Noone has said they were roleblocked which you 100% do because theres no reason not to. This means that HF was roleblocked as he was killed. There is only a couple cases where this is useful. You must remember scum knows the setup If he is cop and gets medic saved he doesn't get a check (not likely if it is a cop medic setup scum would probs try spread out their kill and roleblock unless they were sure someone was a role. If he is vigi he dies and doesn't get his shot off. (This doesn't feel that important as even if the vigi shot htis town doesn't gain a miss lynch and there is a possibility of vigi hitting a town.) Finally if they know there is a vet they want to ensure that they dont have to put kp on him twice. While this doesn't gain town a miss lynch town gains a confirmed town for at least one phase. ah, nvm, i am apparently having reading comprehension issues lol >< you're referring to the possible setups not containing both a doc and a vet okay ^^ There is no setup with both doc and vet? Idk if im misreading what you mean but there is 1 of vigi/cop and one of vet/medic Im saying because of mafias roleblock im like 85% sure we have a vet.I could go further and say there is probably a vigi aswell but that logic comes down to personal preference and how much they thought HF would be a threat. On April 13 2015 08:36 Breshke wrote:
The strangest thing to me is reading sorens filter i don't really get any indication that he might be a role so mafia kind of doesn't care about role hunting? Could mean we have a weaker setup? This further strengthens your points one and kind of three i think that mafia were most worried about HF's possible future reads more than they were worried about anything anyone has been pushing so far. This being said night kill WIFOM is a real thing.
Also if you were roleblocked you should 100% tell the thread straight away. Does Town!Breshke gain anything from this? What does Breshke gain? Does this look like someone playing VET? Mafia knows if there is a vet or not. If he's the vet why would town!Breshke bother to see if people are roleblocked? He would KNOW there is no Medic. He thinks mafia will fakeclaim a roleblock and not send it on a town? If they are dumb enough to fakeclaim an RB they are dumb enough to send it on a town. He's doing this to create chaos and disrupt scumhunting. 5. I haven't played much mafia. I'm no expert who can immediately pick out future nightkills or anything but I do have an opinion on how a VET probably wants to play. How you might ask? Being super town so that mafia shoots you. You also have motive to play town enough so VIGI doesn't shoot you. Is Breshke's actions from the mindset of a vet? 6. Breshke is not stupid. There is no question that his fakeclaim vig to vet claim is a hail mary. Town, investigate a bit more please to see if this is a hail mary as town or mafia. Reread Breshke's actions. Do not accept "oh I'm dumb" as an excuse. That's the easiest mafia cop out ever. Do you think his bluehunting lines up with him being Vet? Is he doing that breadcrumbing for a town purpose or mafia purpose. Why wouldn't vet just play super town? He really would think that the other blue would be the only one to catch his hint and not one of the three mafia?? I also think that Breshke was excited this phase because he's been bluehunting all game and now he can finally use whatever his bluehunting scheme was from before. I think he decided that he was going to possibly fakeclaim from early on. This hail mary of his is to seal the deal.
Inside the spoiler is his individual case on me.
1.Tube actually admits in this point that what I did WAS NOT allighnment indicitive. I am an unclaimed PR. This being said if tube is town he must feel really fucking strongly about me being scum. So his first point in a case on me would not end in "yeah he could do this as town or mafia". There is no way. Nor do i think the argument that I just parked my vote on plot is necessarily true.
2.In this point tube completely ignores my explanation for why I switched my vote from theshining to prp. I am not going to explain it again but once again this is tube ignoring some of my posts so he can once again grasp at things to call me scum with.
3. No conclusions are made from this point. He asks what scum/town breshke would get from bluehunting yet doesnt answer this question himself. Obviously no one is going to respond to this question so why not explain that he thinks I was obviously bluehunting in the thread on stutters then decided that I would not kill him?
On April 14 2015 13:58 Breshke wrote:
Stutters if you had one read you were most sure of who would it be and what do you think their alignment is? I don't need a reason.
He also missed this post which could be seen as the biggest blue hunting post. I knew im the evt so if stutters was a pr he was the cop or vigi and this was me basically trying to get him to soft his checks a obvious as it might've been.
4.This point is absolutly wrong and shows he isn't thinking about what he is even writing. The setup could have been cop/vet in which case mafia probably try and roleblock the cop. Also there is still a possibility in vigi/vet that mafia try and claim a roleblock (after they rb the person they kill) for town cred. Tube asks what i get as town from this, it is clear that in one scenario it was that i should be wary of the eprson who claimed rb and in the other that the person who claimed RB is most likely town. It also was a way of letting the other power role know there was a vet.
5. I think I was fairly townie in the first few days (tube apparently also thought this???) so i don't think i can be criticized for not trying that. Also my comment that it would have been better for the shining to shoot me is 100% justified because we then become basically confirmed to eachother and town doesn't go into mylo. He also asks if my actions are from the mindset of a vet yet fails to show anywhere where he thinks im not coming from the mindset of a vet.
6.The other three mafia wouldnt have exactly caught my play as rso was the only one who pinged out the paragraph where i was trying to make it clear to the vigi not to claim. If it was anyone but shining I think it would have gone better (not because i think he is bad but because he was scum reading me)
I also don't understand how my bluehinting from ebfore ties into that play but w/e.
Anyway this has become really long so tl dr this shows a clear disconnect in tube's reads where he logically calls me town with reasons to where he starts calling me scum for far far weaker reasons which he constantly fails to draw conclusions from. Making a case on someone who is an unclaimed PR probably means one of two things. You feel really strongly that that person is mafia which tube clearly doesn't as a lot of his points end in questions not conclusions or you plan on CC'ing that person which would be absurd at this point
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EPT
