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oh look he rescinded his mason claim, saw that coming.
my gut response is to just lynch onegu cuz fuck your fake claim BS, but i feel like i need to resist that urge and actually read the following responses
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On March 25 2015 14:39 Onegu wrote:Show nested quote +On March 25 2015 14:34 Trfel wrote:On March 25 2015 14:29 Onegu wrote:On March 25 2015 14:05 Trfel wrote:
I don't see why Onegu is town yet. The following assumes Onegu is mafia:
Choosing to fake mason with Holyflare makes sense. He gets basic towncredit, and it gives him room to rescind his mason claim later. This didn't affect mafia's night kill, if anything this would have affected Onegu's initial decision. It's not like Holyflare was going to let Onegu slide on a mason claim if it became detrimental to town anyway.
Basically, Onegu gets a little towncredit and gives him room to pull out of mason claims later in the game.
And I'm still worried about ritoky. I think his scumplay was extremely solid in Down Under 2. I don't see him doing anything so far that he couldn't do as scum. The only reason to townread him was Palmar being suspicious of raynpelikoneet, but apparently a lot of people were suspicious of him, so some pressure doesn't seem that unlikely. That said, I didn't read this part of the game.
Please correct me if I'm wrong on any of this. Why are you assuming I'm mafia? What are talking about NK? I really don't uderstand what you are saying about the NK part. That's how to play the game, look at how someone's plays make sense from a mafia perspective.... Ideally, the reasons that everyone's plays make sense from a town perspective are obvious. What I'm saying is that if you are mafia, killing Holyflare really has no effect on your alignment being known. That's the point. here is the problem with that, why did HF claim to be my partner? I came to the conclusion as town that he was vet. If I was scum I would think the same thing and not shoot him. The fact he was shot and a KP missing points more toward scum believing I am town and scum believed the mason claims and shot us both. There was no reason for Holyflare not claiming mason partner with you. Before the game started, I actually considered plenty of ways to fake claim mason. Holyflare claiming mason with you had no downside, and had the benefit of being interesting and fun. I'm sure Holyflare had a lot of fun pretending to be mason with you. I don't see why Holyflare claiming mason makes him veteran. Though I suppose I can see mafia thinking this if they know Holyflare isn't actually a mason, but I would expect them to risk shooting him anyway.
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On March 25 2015 14:44 ritoky wrote:
oh look he rescinded his mason claim, saw that coming.
my gut response is to just lynch onegu cuz fuck your fake claim BS, but i feel like i need to resist that urge and actually read the following responses
Like how did a fake mason claim hurt town if I'm town, and how is it smart as scum. Therefor it's not BS.
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On March 25 2015 14:46 Onegu wrote:Show nested quote +On March 25 2015 14:44 ritoky wrote:
oh look he rescinded his mason claim, saw that coming.
my gut response is to just lynch onegu cuz fuck your fake claim BS, but i feel like i need to resist that urge and actually read the following responses Like how did a fake mason claim hurt town if I'm town, and how is it smart as scum. Therefor it's not BS.
what did you gain from the claim? from my perspective all it added was unnecessary confusion and lies that makes the game harder to solve. that is mafia's job, not town. it's not like your claim led to a lynch or found scum, it just made the game harder for everyone else except the mafia. thus it is BS.
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On March 25 2015 14:44 Trfel wrote:Show nested quote +On March 25 2015 14:39 Onegu wrote:On March 25 2015 14:34 Trfel wrote:On March 25 2015 14:29 Onegu wrote:On March 25 2015 14:05 Trfel wrote:
I don't see why Onegu is town yet. The following assumes Onegu is mafia:
Choosing to fake mason with Holyflare makes sense. He gets basic towncredit, and it gives him room to rescind his mason claim later. This didn't affect mafia's night kill, if anything this would have affected Onegu's initial decision. It's not like Holyflare was going to let Onegu slide on a mason claim if it became detrimental to town anyway.
Basically, Onegu gets a little towncredit and gives him room to pull out of mason claims later in the game.
And I'm still worried about ritoky. I think his scumplay was extremely solid in Down Under 2. I don't see him doing anything so far that he couldn't do as scum. The only reason to townread him was Palmar being suspicious of raynpelikoneet, but apparently a lot of people were suspicious of him, so some pressure doesn't seem that unlikely. That said, I didn't read this part of the game.
Please correct me if I'm wrong on any of this. Why are you assuming I'm mafia? What are talking about NK? I really don't uderstand what you are saying about the NK part. That's how to play the game, look at how someone's plays make sense from a mafia perspective.... Ideally, the reasons that everyone's plays make sense from a town perspective are obvious. What I'm saying is that if you are mafia, killing Holyflare really has no effect on your alignment being known. That's the point. here is the problem with that, why did HF claim to be my partner? I came to the conclusion as town that he was vet. If I was scum I would think the same thing and not shoot him. The fact he was shot and a KP missing points more toward scum believing I am town and scum believed the mason claims and shot us both. There was no reason for Holyflare not claiming mason partner with you. Before the game started, I actually considered plenty of ways to fake claim mason. Holyflare claiming mason with you had no downside, and had the benefit of being interesting and fun. I'm sure Holyflare had a lot of fun pretending to be mason with you. I don't see why Holyflare claiming mason makes him veteran. Though I suppose I can see mafia thinking this if they know Holyflare isn't actually a mason, but I would expect them to risk shooting him anyway.
Lol if you have reason to believe someone is VET you don't risk shooting them until you have to. And if I'm scum and know he's not mason it's very logical to think he has a much better than normal chance to be a vet.
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On March 25 2015 14:46 Onegu wrote:Show nested quote +On March 25 2015 14:44 ritoky wrote:
oh look he rescinded his mason claim, saw that coming.
my gut response is to just lynch onegu cuz fuck your fake claim BS, but i feel like i need to resist that urge and actually read the following responses Like how did a fake mason claim hurt town if I'm town, and how is it smart as scum. Therefor it's not BS. It doesn't hurt town all that much if you're smart about it. As scum, it potentially keeps you alive for longer, and I could see scum risking claiming mason with a scumbuddy (yes, I'm still suspicious of raynpelikoneet/ritoky).
I think you ought to be read independent of your claim. And I don't see much that suggests you are town, though I haven't taken a close look yet.
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On March 25 2015 14:49 ritoky wrote:Show nested quote +On March 25 2015 14:46 Onegu wrote:On March 25 2015 14:44 ritoky wrote:
oh look he rescinded his mason claim, saw that coming.
my gut response is to just lynch onegu cuz fuck your fake claim BS, but i feel like i need to resist that urge and actually read the following responses Like how did a fake mason claim hurt town if I'm town, and how is it smart as scum. Therefor it's not BS. what did you gain from the claim? from my perspective all it added was unnecessary confusion and lies that makes the game harder to solve. that is mafia's job, not town. it's not like your claim led to a lynch or found scum, it just made the game harder for everyone else except the mafia. thus it is BS.
Nope it has confirmed sicklucker as town, plus I'm going to go back to the point I claimed mason with Rayn to see who didn't believe, but that is moreso if you flip scum which I don't think is likely. Also it made mafia miss a shot as I got n1 protection while getting shot. So what were you saying about it not helping town?
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my real big issue is your claim time, like you tested the waters super early on. your second post is claiming groot and taking the temperatures on people's response. that's the part that bugs me the most about the entire situation. i have made stupid fake claims in the past that have cost town quite a bit, so i can understand the fake claim mindset. but i don't like this testing the waters early in the game when you can claim it as a joke or rescind with little consequence stuff. it reeks of mafia scouting for if masons are in the game. that's the part that really irks me the most.
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On March 25 2015 14:50 Trfel wrote:Show nested quote +On March 25 2015 14:46 Onegu wrote:On March 25 2015 14:44 ritoky wrote:
oh look he rescinded his mason claim, saw that coming.
my gut response is to just lynch onegu cuz fuck your fake claim BS, but i feel like i need to resist that urge and actually read the following responses Like how did a fake mason claim hurt town if I'm town, and how is it smart as scum. Therefor it's not BS. It doesn't hurt town all that much if you're smart about it. As scum, it potentially keeps you alive for longer, and I could see scum risking claiming mason with a scumbuddy (yes, I'm still suspicious of raynpelikoneet/ritoky). I think you ought to be read independent of your claim. And I don't see much that suggests you are town, though I haven't taken a close look yet.
See this is fine. But If I am scum with Rayn why wouldn't Rayn confirm? I have already said this and you can check I have rolled mafia and mason with Rayn and I don't do anything without letting Rayn know and ok it.
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if onegu is town his claim literally bought a mislynch. how are people saying it didn't help town?
you can say it if you think he's mafia and you think he got jailed carrying kp but it makes 0 sense to say it didn't help town when he bought an ML
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On March 25 2015 14:53 Onegu wrote:Show nested quote +On March 25 2015 14:49 ritoky wrote:On March 25 2015 14:46 Onegu wrote:On March 25 2015 14:44 ritoky wrote:
oh look he rescinded his mason claim, saw that coming.
my gut response is to just lynch onegu cuz fuck your fake claim BS, but i feel like i need to resist that urge and actually read the following responses Like how did a fake mason claim hurt town if I'm town, and how is it smart as scum. Therefor it's not BS. what did you gain from the claim? from my perspective all it added was unnecessary confusion and lies that makes the game harder to solve. that is mafia's job, not town. it's not like your claim led to a lynch or found scum, it just made the game harder for everyone else except the mafia. thus it is BS. Nope it has confirmed sicklucker as town, plus I'm going to go back to the point I claimed mason with Rayn to see who didn't believe, but that is moreso if you flip scum which I don't think is likely. Also it made mafia miss a shot as I got n1 protection while getting shot. So what were you saying about it not helping town?
isn't SL town for shooting a mafia in the face? and idk shit about the night actions, but if it did something, then cool, but dunno if it counterbalances the confusion caused.
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On March 25 2015 12:53 Superbia wrote:Show nested quote +On March 25 2015 12:30 Eden1892 wrote:On March 25 2015 12:29 Superbia wrote:
Artanis. uh why lol All right. So Artanis' day 1 is actually really really bad, with the exception if rayn ever flips mafia (which I severely doubt at this point). He hard defends LS: Show nested quote +On March 19 2015 22:56 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On March 19 2015 22:54 Vivax wrote:On March 19 2015 22:52 LightningStrike wrote:I'm back and saw a answer from Toad on my question regarding him and Palmar in Hammertime when they both were town: On March 19 2015 12:20 Toadesstern wrote:On March 19 2015 12:10 LightningStrike wrote:On March 19 2015 12:00 Toadesstern wrote:On March 19 2015 11:52 LightningStrike wrote:On March 19 2015 11:50 Toadesstern wrote:Like everyone's talking about how I'm playing different than I used to last games... no shit I got killed on first cycle like 4 times in a row and lost 4 games in a row now. Last game in particular I feel like I lost because I was trolling too much and didn't get enough out in time which ended in people not lynching Sandroba when he was 100% mafia on my sheet. I needed to be a lot more serious in that game early on and we could have won  Ya you kinda got lynched because Palmars tunneling you that's the thing in Hammertime. Also I can understand a little bit on why you thought you need to be more serious after JOAT but still it just odd playing with a already serious you. I mean if I get mafiaread for being different or more serious than I played in my last couple games there's nothing I can and will say about that other than my occasional banter about how that's not alignment indicative at all unless someone points out how different means scummy... because there's nothing I can say about it. I am playing differently (probably) With that being said, if that's what it's like I'll just ignore everything in that direction from now on and just focus on getting my reads out a little bit earlier than last game and making sure I get them out properly explained. Got angry about Palmar pulling the same shit he did in Hammertime when he should know better and talked myself into a wolf... won't happen again and this is the last post about it. Ya true about Palmar should know better on that but you seemed to taken it more personally o.o Are you still offended by Palmar's thing on you in Hammertime when you both were town? from JoaT: On March 03 2015 08:08 Toadesstern wrote:
Fear not guyses for I have yet again rolled neither mafia nor Ninja. Thus I will proceed to kill all those mafias and not be mislynched d1 despite being called fucking confirmed town 24-36hours into the game.
Let me check real quick if Palmar is in the game not really offended but annoyed. I thought he was town early on doing it on purpose to start some discussion or get some read from me based on how I'd react if he misreads me again like that, so yeah I got annoyed at the possible idea of having to deal with that again because he might make someone else agree with it... Right know I'm pretty sure he's mafia for keeping at it and knowing that it annoys me. Can some of the guys who think my tone is so awful and completly different this game please go ahead and at least compare that post above with my first post in here instead of just believing all this about how my tone is completly different? Props for nailing it on my seriousness though LS. Because yeah, that did change, just not the thing Palmar and HF mentioned. I don't a see a big tone difference on your entrance to this game compared to JOAT regarding Palmar and I wouldn't blame on you on that because as a Cohost in Hammertime I kinda felt bad and I shoulda warned him on his Kill Toad spam and I didn't if I recalled. Also rsoultin not wanting to give her read on me this early to Eden but I don't blame her because I rolled Mafia in JOAT when she was town and called me Town by meta and will have to bleed green this game. So I saw Palmar and Rayn going at each other and saw Artanis trying to stop it but I remember Artanis so townie in Imperial yet when he lynched Town!Palmar he basically looked pure Mafia (Scum if you prefer to use that term) so I might need to wait on reading him esp because he just rolled Mafia in Student VI which I was coaching the Cop and the Vet and the Cop caught him with a Cop check so ya I going to be careful reading him. Also he got a decent point about a chance that Palmar or Rayn are Mafia and the other town due to their interactions esp Palmar stuff early on about Toad and I not going to make the same mistake I did in Titanic and give a easy townread on Palmar Day 1. I also have yet to play with Mafia!Rayn so I might be a bit bias on him being town compared to Palmar so meh. @Artanis who is more likely to be Mafia between Palmar and Rayn and Why? @ExO Where you at on reads considering our past history with each other? Oh god this post is so mafia Have you played with LS before? This is how LS plays. He calls toad scum and by proxy, defends Palmar who toad is tunneling. Interestingly, at this very point Artanis had no read on Palmar! He was reading him null! Then, when the claim wars happen, he completely flips on toad, and goes hard after vivax. This is after toad was his hard mafia read. We are left with this list: Show nested quote +On March 21 2015 03:25 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
Votes as I see them:
Vivax (5): Artanis[Xp], Damdred, LightningStrike, sicklucker, Toadesstern
LightningStrike (4): Bill Murray, FecalFeast, Vivax, Onegu
sicklucker (3): Superbia, Alakaslam, Breshke
Artanis[Xp] (2): VisceraEyes, Eden1892
raynpelikoneet (2): Holyflare, rsoultin
Toadesstern (2): Palmar, raynpelikoneet
Eden1892 (1): ExO
Not Voting (1): Trfel
Only having 1.7 scumread is problematic. Was hoping this'd help more. With the exception of possibly rayn, most of his reads are pretty shit. He leans town on two confirmed mafia (really bad) for seemingly no good reason whatsoever. Now this is where it gets scummy, with the whole claim thing. There's a wagon on Vivax and a wagon starts on BM. As the wagon starts, Art calls it "pure" but refuses to switch. He gets called out by you (Eden) and he gives a half-assed excuse later. He seems to strongly consider the world in which both vigis are real: Show nested quote +On March 21 2015 05:58 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
I think Superbia might possibly be right. Host WIFOM time.
I know HtS likes her vigis because she hates lurkers. It's therefore very likely there's at least 1 vigi in the setup. Since the playercount wasn't fixed until the end, I find it plausible that the end balance was made by adding an additional vigi.
I'm not sure if I find that more plausible than that Vivax simply tried to fakeclaim and failed though. Toad definitely town for the CC, I just don't ever see mafia making that play when it isn't necessary. But for a reason I don't share whatsoever, proceeds to call Vivax 100% scum anyway. Moreover, Artanis later finds the time to make a paint diagram on rayn's anger levels, a very peculiar thing to do in such a high-stress claim situation for town. He seems to consider his options during this claim war, but I sincerely doubt he actually did consider anything. In the end he is still reading Vivax as scum. Now it gets even weirder, we manage to get the wagon off of Vivax, and the night phase begins. For some reason, Artanis decides to town-read Vivax, before the night actions are even resolved. Then when the day begins (and KP is reduced), Artanis hard-reads Vivax town for his filter length, what!? My theory at this point is that scum put both an RB and KP on Vivax. I believe that both Artanis and Onegu are scum due to this. I believe Artanis was looking to set himself up to look good before Vivax flipped town, and that he needed to substantiate his read after it became obvious Vivax lived through the KP. By extension, I think that Onegu is scum because in this world Onegu is never the save. I think for a 3rd scum slam is still a good bet.
This is really interesting. and brings me to a rayn post let me dig it out
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On March 25 2015 14:39 Trfel wrote:
Sorry, can I get answers to these questions? Links to previous posts are fine. But I'd like fairly concise explanations.
Why is Alakaslam scum?
Why is Onegu town?
Why is ritoky town? (given how he crushed town as scum in Down Under 2)
slam is scum thru POE and not making even the slightest iota of effort to solve the game
onegu is town thru the sequence of mason claim + rsoultin jailing him + hf being shot. the most plausible explanation of this sequence, by far, is that scum believed they were masons together and tried to shoot both of them
ritoky is town thru... thru... well idk i have him in my POE. LOL
but he's trying which is better than can be said for slam
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On March 25 2015 14:57 ritoky wrote:Show nested quote +On March 25 2015 14:53 Onegu wrote:On March 25 2015 14:49 ritoky wrote:On March 25 2015 14:46 Onegu wrote:On March 25 2015 14:44 ritoky wrote:
oh look he rescinded his mason claim, saw that coming.
my gut response is to just lynch onegu cuz fuck your fake claim BS, but i feel like i need to resist that urge and actually read the following responses Like how did a fake mason claim hurt town if I'm town, and how is it smart as scum. Therefor it's not BS. what did you gain from the claim? from my perspective all it added was unnecessary confusion and lies that makes the game harder to solve. that is mafia's job, not town. it's not like your claim led to a lynch or found scum, it just made the game harder for everyone else except the mafia. thus it is BS. Nope it has confirmed sicklucker as town, plus I'm going to go back to the point I claimed mason with Rayn to see who didn't believe, but that is moreso if you flip scum which I don't think is likely. Also it made mafia miss a shot as I got n1 protection while getting shot. So what were you saying about it not helping town? isn't SL town for shooting a mafia in the face? and idk shit about the night actions, but if it did something, then cool, but dunno if it counterbalances the confusion caused.
so some temporary conclusion that didn't really hurt our scumhunting efforts
vs
buying an ML
ez trade ez life
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acualy no the rayn post I was thinking of was shit
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On March 25 2015 14:57 ritoky wrote:Show nested quote +On March 25 2015 14:53 Onegu wrote:On March 25 2015 14:49 ritoky wrote:On March 25 2015 14:46 Onegu wrote:On March 25 2015 14:44 ritoky wrote:
oh look he rescinded his mason claim, saw that coming.
my gut response is to just lynch onegu cuz fuck your fake claim BS, but i feel like i need to resist that urge and actually read the following responses Like how did a fake mason claim hurt town if I'm town, and how is it smart as scum. Therefor it's not BS. what did you gain from the claim? from my perspective all it added was unnecessary confusion and lies that makes the game harder to solve. that is mafia's job, not town. it's not like your claim led to a lynch or found scum, it just made the game harder for everyone else except the mafia. thus it is BS. Nope it has confirmed sicklucker as town, plus I'm going to go back to the point I claimed mason with Rayn to see who didn't believe, but that is moreso if you flip scum which I don't think is likely. Also it made mafia miss a shot as I got n1 protection while getting shot. So what were you saying about it not helping town? isn't SL town for shooting a mafia in the face? and idk shit about the night actions, but if it did something, then cool, but dunno if it counterbalances the confusion caused.
Yeah I guess, but even if he didn't shoot mafia in the face I would have confirmed him. So lucky he got the orb and it worked, but if he didn't I would have confirmed him
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On March 25 2015 14:55 Onegu wrote:Show nested quote +On March 25 2015 14:50 Trfel wrote:On March 25 2015 14:46 Onegu wrote:On March 25 2015 14:44 ritoky wrote:
oh look he rescinded his mason claim, saw that coming.
my gut response is to just lynch onegu cuz fuck your fake claim BS, but i feel like i need to resist that urge and actually read the following responses Like how did a fake mason claim hurt town if I'm town, and how is it smart as scum. Therefor it's not BS. It doesn't hurt town all that much if you're smart about it. As scum, it potentially keeps you alive for longer, and I could see scum risking claiming mason with a scumbuddy (yes, I'm still suspicious of raynpelikoneet/ritoky). I think you ought to be read independent of your claim. And I don't see much that suggests you are town, though I haven't taken a close look yet. See this is fine. But If I am scum with Rayn why wouldn't Rayn confirm? I have already said this and you can check I have rolled mafia and mason with Rayn and I don't do anything without letting Rayn know and ok it. I know you say that, but it seems like a very reasonable thing to happen in my opinion. And I can't take your word for it, for obvious reasons.
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And did it really cause that much confusion? Yeah a bit after HF was shot. Then more when I claimed Rayn and Rayn said he wasn't with me. But for the most part it was ignored other than wanting me to claim partner so they could put 2 people as confirmed.
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Well hes right that if onegus town I was already confirmed since I was the only one who thought they were fake ( I would not kill hf/onegu if im mafia). I dont think anyone would have used that correct logic tho if its even a thing.
Im sl I have to literally kill mafia to get townread aparently
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Eden, I am not opposed to your PoE plan if you can sub out damdred from your town circle for anyone who you have decent read on.
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EPT
