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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
On January 27 2015 02:28 Palmar wrote: ♥♥♥ Toad, please help this man, he needs it. I must leave you now, but help him understand. Help him smite away his instincts and accept knowledge. sry I'm shopping for an hour for I must not starve | ||
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
On January 27 2015 02:32 VisceraEyes wrote: Toad couldn't help me even if he wanted to. I'm beyond help at this point. one last attempt before going out: The two quotes you pulled out just recently are showing one point of your case. Points people might even agree with. Your second point however, that Palmar posts with the knowledge of your alignment, has not been shown yet. Palmar and I want you to quote that one post and tell us what about it proves his knowledge about your alignment. You somewhat dodged the question about point 2 because you just restarted your point 1, which noone had a problem with so far. | ||
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
I know you don't agree with my read on GB. But what about the bottom part of my list? Especially considering that Eden and lian being mafia together makes no sense whatsoever I'd like to get some input on that. | ||
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
On January 27 2015 03:48 Toadesstern wrote: Can you compare my list to yours HTS and tell me where the differences are?
I know you don't agree with my read on GB. But what about the bottom part of my list? Especially considering that Eden and lian being mafia together makes no sense whatsoever I'd like to get some input on that. EBWOP c&p has failed me. It should have been "slightly leaning mafia for now" for both the last entries of that list | ||
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
##vote liancourt | ||
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
On January 27 2015 03:58 Half the Sky wrote: Pressure vote? I am keeping my vote on GB until he gets back to me... silly qtpi, it's not a pressure vote if I got and tell him "don't worry, 'tis just a pressure vote" | ||
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
On January 27 2015 04:05 Eden1892 wrote: I agree in that liancourt feels like he is picking his target and once he has picked that he's writing something about them (because he has to) rather than going with the flow. It should be the other way around, you find something weird and you talk about it no matter who it is, especially early on into d1. Is he usually the kind of guy that locks on his target and just goes at it? | ||
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
On January 27 2015 04:15 Eden1892 wrote: hts says so, i've only played one game with him where he was town and i was mafia, and he locked onto me. but idk if he just does it in general or was zeroed in on me because i was obvious LOL my issue is less that he's zeroed in on me and refusing to budge or explain himself, because townies and mafia both tunnel on targets all the time. my issue is the reasoning he's using, which i feel like doesn't come from the position of someone who doesn't have the truth and is trying to figure it out, but instead from the position of someone who does have the truth and is trying to obscure it from the others though if he's tunneling he has confirmation bias by definition. If that's what he's doing it's likely he might ignore the parts you're blaming him for simply because he's certain you're mafia and looking at it only one way: Try to point out things that don't fit with your townmeta because you're mafia anyways Both what you said and what I said come down to the same thing I feel. It could very well be malicious just the way I think locking on to just one target could be something malicious because that way he doesn't have to make up stuff about a lot of people and can just focus on one guy. But if he does tunnel a lot that's a moot point. | ||
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
On January 27 2015 04:36 Eden1892 wrote: Nah, there's a key difference in what I'm observing - for him to start tunneling on someone he thinks is mafia he first has to have some reason for thinking it. If his initially-given reason for thinking I'm mafia doesn't actually make sense from a townie POV, it makes him significantly less likely to be town and tunneling. Let's say it's d2 and he had done this awesome vote count analysis and made a decent argument for me being mafia. Say I afk'd with my vote on an outlier. He gives his case, then votes me, never reconsiders and starts turning everything I say into something suspicious. He's tunneling on me, but his fundamental argument that began the tunnel is sensible, so he's probably town tunneling. In contrast, let's say it's d1 and he decided I'm mafia because I posted a picture of a puppy. (shit doesn't have to make sense just roll with it) He then never reconsiders and starting turning everything I say into something suspicious. He's tunneling again, but it starts to look a lot more like mafia tunneling to avoid having to engage the thread, because his original reason for suspecting me was bogus and he then starts adjusting his interpretations of everything I say to justify himself post-facto. Obviously he's somewhere in the middle, but as I argued before, I think he's closer to the puppy side than the awesome side of the spectrum. His reasoning outright ignored half of his (two) data points without explanation, which is something I think is more likely to come from mafia than from town. He then proceeds to tunnel and misinterpret what I'm saying. The tunneling can go either way but the ignoring of the data points to make his first read can't. yes I agree with that and it is part of the reasoning I haven't unvoted him. | ||
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
##unvote | ||
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
I don't care about him being wrong with what he does. I want to see why doing what's wrong is more beneficial for him as mafia than as a townie. Because I still only see him as the easy mislynch to be honest. | ||
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
On January 27 2015 07:20 IAmRobik wrote: His case on me is that I wasn't posting thus I'm mafia. I started posting. He continues to say I'm mafia for meta reasons, even though I've since broken that meta. Thus he's just making shit up and doesn't have any actual thoughts on analysis. Especially since all he does is talk about me. Additionally, he has made 4 posts today that amount to "i'm going afk be back later," which I find inherently scummy. first sentence: He is bad second+third sentence: well... that's him being bad because he told you about it if he really thinks that way  He shouldn't have done that. We'll have to see what he posts in the next couple hours. fourth+ sentence: he has only made 4 posts ever since (trusting you on this) so it's obvious there's not a lot of actualy thoughts on analysis. how is "I'm going afk be back later" something inherently scummy? HTS has said something along those lines multiple times. I don't see you all over her (pun might be intended) I actually do that a lot as well depending on my mood, as all three alignments. | ||
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
On January 27 2015 07:27 Toadesstern wrote: first sentence: He is bad second+third sentence: well... that's him being bad because he told you about it if he really thinks that way He shouldn't have done that. We'll have to see what he posts in the next couple hours. fourth+ sentence: he has only made 4 posts ever since (trusting you on this) so it's obvious there's not a lot of actualy thoughts on analysis. how is "I'm going afk be back later" something inherently scummy? HTS has said something along those lines multiple times. I don't see you all over her (pun might be intended) I actually do that a lot as well depending on my mood, as all three alignments. last part: sorry I misunderstood. I thought he used that phrase and you think that's scummy when what you meant is "he has done jackshit today" | ||
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
On January 27 2015 07:29 Palmar wrote: Wow I am amazed how much mafia you are for these three words Toad ##vote Toadesstern care to elaborate? | ||
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
On January 27 2015 07:38 IAmRobik wrote: THIS POST IS FOR PALMAR'S EYES ONLY: + Show Spoiler + Do you think it's scummier or townier for people to get frustrated with you? (HTS/Toad) it's a sign of how many games people have played with him / how long people know him. I'd expect most new guys to be annoyed at Palmar... and well VE is VE. He's always annoyed at something. That being said, I have to admit that while I did read GlowinBears spoilers I was too lazy to actually click the links inside the spoilers inside the spoilers (wtf...) and went just over it like "ya ya fine" most of the time. I re-read the case from HTS on page 14 though and like some of the points more now that I've checked the links as well. Gimme some time for that. | ||
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
On January 27 2015 07:51 Half the Sky wrote: EBWOP - what also struck me was people in this thread townreading GB simply because he seemed to be putting in the effort for his notetaking posts. I'm mostly still townreading him for the vote on me that had a townish confidence to it to not give a fuck About your case. I actually quite like it and am considering GB a null at best right now... I don't care so much about your first point about him and your last point, but the second one about Onegu just commenting on the vote without trying to figure anything out when indeed he was confused and asked about wether it's a troll / mayor / lynch vote at just that time. That could very well be painting someone red rather than trying to read someone. | ||
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
On January 27 2015 08:00 Toadesstern wrote: I'm mostly still townreading him for the vote on me that had a townish confidence to it to not give a fuck About your case. I actually quite like it and am considering GB a null at best right now... I don't care so much about your first point about him and your last point, but the second one about Onegu just commenting on the vote without trying to figure anything out when indeed he was confused and asked about wether it's a troll / mayor / lynch vote at just that time. That could very well be painting someone red rather than trying to read someone. the more I think about that one point, the more I like it actually. It is clearly showing mafia agenda, more so than any other case done so far, including my own reads that are all based on how people are interacting here because d1 is usually really hard to get some mafia agenda when noone has flipped yet. I'd be voting him if I didn't want to make sure we get more time right now. There's still the lingering fear that he's bad and the easy mislynch but it makes me feel way better about this. | ||
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