He makes you believe he is townie, so that you defend him when shit hits the fan and that you disregard his scummy posts.
That's exactly what's happening
Forum Index > TL Mafia |
Elvis!
Germany396 Posts
He makes you believe he is townie, so that you defend him when shit hits the fan and that you disregard his scummy posts. That's exactly what's happening | ||
raynpelikoneet
Finland43266 Posts
On November 14 2014 02:55 Elvis! wrote: I'm not talking about you talking about confirming sicklucker but himself. Look how many of his posts are "I'm town because", "I'm definitely not scum because [WIFOM]". Again this doesn't make anyone mafia. I do that a lot. Like REALLY A LOT... as town. Also, where did I ignore questions directed at me? You can't be serious? I JUST re-asked the question,. I even UNDERLINED the part!!! Did you see what the questions directed at him tried to do and how he just said they're all terrible and he doesn't even wanna read it? Could you re-ask the questions? I do not see myself lynching him but still. There is not much to talk about apparently so let's make him answer them if they exist. Ignoring negative things said about him, well he ignores anything that's said about him. If he's scum, these questions are difficult to answer, if these he's scum he could expose information if he answers them. If he's town, there's nothing to lose when answering them. So as a conclusion, the only reason to ignore these questions is because you feel uncomfortable answering them or at most are lazy town. Not really. I do ignore a lot that's been asked from me as town because it doesn't help me/anyone find mafia and wastes my time (especially if i think the questions are stupid). So as i said, can you re-ask the questions so i can also evaluate if they are good or not, worth answering in other words. Being lazy and not reading/researching meanwhile is what he's done all game. He posts a lot of stuff, but these aren't researched things. These are impulsive ideas that most of the time don't get us anywhere. Not necessarily a scum trait, in fact being impulsive is way more likely to be a town trait. I disagree with the last sentence. For example he was one of the first people to actually do something about "Sentinel is mafia". This is about the most important thing that has happened in this game for the town. He posted so many plain wrong things, misconceptions and similair things that are just not acceptable as town. Then please show me where he made a serious case where he pushed someone because of a good amount of arguments and proof. He hasn't. None of his cases are reliable. Please show me where anyone (except you) has made a case that's "decent" by your standards? He is very active in the thread but tell me where he's been useful. You say he isn't, but with what reasoning? He was one of the main people pushing Sentinel. One could argue that's more "good for town" than you have done... In fact i am just arguing that. You say you want examples of where he's pocketing people. Well, look at yourself. On the basis of what do you read him town? You never explained this is great detail, but him posting a lot and seeming active and talking about scenarios where he "must be townie" made you think so. Again I ask you: for what reasoning? I JUST GAVE THE REASONING!!! DID YOU EVEN READ MY POST?!?!?!? There are a lot of reasons to believe he is scum and they line up well. He seems to have a strategy how to look town and follows that through. No there aren't. Looking from a perspective where he is mafia, what's his only aim at this point? Look townie. He tries a LOT to look townie. Looking from a perspective where he is townie, what's his aim at this point? Collect information and call out scum for good evidence. He has collected information, but has he called out scum with good evidence? I don't see it. All of this has been discussed in this same post before so i won't answer it multiple times. Still voting him and since noone is posting cases it looks like I'm going to stick with it. Saying "I think this person is mafia, please vote for him" with a couple of "proofs" that aren't more than wild guesses "the person is mafia, because [insert WIFOM argument here]" isn't making a case. You have called both flipped scum "possibly town" for WIFOM arguments and you are really arguing this? oh my gosh. ![]() A last argument I want to make is how many of his arguments he constantly pulls back. "Medic should claim" "i guess he shouldn't". "This person is scummy" someone posts something different "i guess he isn't". This is more likely to come from a townie. Scum like to stick with their opinions. True fact. Also, a lot of his lynch reasoning is who is possible to be lynched today, especially already very early in the day. Mafia likes voting on the easy targets, he loves it. Yet he has voted for mafia on D2 and D3. Your "hard targets" were better? See? Like what the fuck is this argument? I don't even..... Also talking shit (and I'm not exaggerating) about people because they made a post about him and pleading that people should ignore it? The people can think for themselves, they can decide if it's bad or worthy, if he thinks it's not dangerous for him why does he care? Can you quote the post where he talks shit because i do not know what you are talking about. So many things he posts are not only non-townie but very likely to have scum motivation behind them. ...and you still do not elaborate on this further... again, which posts? and why? Also, look like he points out how serejai "pocketed" me, even though in his world she's town? Logic please? I never even said she's town? Also why me over everyone else? She didn't agree more to my posts about you than a couple of others. You're trying to make connections that don't exist. If I believe anyone to be town here it's probably Breshke. In case i am not mistaken that happened when Serejai claimed mafia, no? So that's only logical. Good job for making the easiest read ever on Breshke. Except that if you do not think i am town you are mafia or delusional. | ||
raynpelikoneet
Finland43266 Posts
On November 14 2014 03:05 Elvis! wrote: Like my definition of pocketing is this: He makes you believe he is townie, so that you defend him when shit hits the fan and that you disregard his scummy posts. That's exactly what's happening What's the fucking point of making me believe he is town if his team gets lynched? It's not like i own every single vote in this game. | ||
raynpelikoneet
Finland43266 Posts
On November 14 2014 03:03 Elvis! wrote: By thinking he's townie (which is you getting pocketed) and saying he didn't try to convince you not to lynch sentinel? I AM SAYING HE CAN'T POSSIBLY POCKET ME WHEN I AM NOT IN THE GAME½!!!!!! WHY IS THIS SO HARD????? IT'S LITERALLY IMPOSSIBLE!!! | ||
raynpelikoneet
Finland43266 Posts
gosh you must be mafia. That's what your "pocketing case' looks like. It's fucking idiotic!!!! In fact it's worse than what i just said lol. | ||
Serejai
6007 Posts
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43266 Posts
Can you give me some examples from Fecalfeast's filter where he has been useful? You sure can because you call sicklucker "barely useful at all and posted so much useless stuff". Can you give me some examples from Fecalfeast's filter where he has been useful? You sure can because you call sicklucker "barely useful at all and posted so much useless stuff". Can you give me some examples from Fecalfeast's filter where he has been useful? You sure can because you call sicklucker "barely useful at all and posted so much useless stuff". Can you give me some examples from Fecalfeast's filter where he has been useful? You sure can because you call sicklucker "barely useful at all and posted so much useless stuff". Can you give me some examples from Fecalfeast's filter where he has been useful? You sure can because you call sicklucker "barely useful at all and posted so much useless stuff". That was 3rd - 7th time i ask this. I'll lynch you if you do not answer me at latest 1h beofre the deadline. | ||
raynpelikoneet
Finland43266 Posts
On November 14 2014 03:23 Serejai wrote: This day is much more enjoyable than the last ![]() Could you vote for Fecalfeast? | ||
Elvis!
Germany396 Posts
When participating in this game he recently doesn't seem scummy to me. He also yes, isn't the most useful recently but that's not my only point on sicklucker and since I'm sure about my case, why would I go for something I deem weaker? | ||
raynpelikoneet
Finland43266 Posts
On November 14 2014 03:40 Elvis! wrote: Calm down rayn I was at uni all day and couldn't have a look at a lot of filters of fecal. When participating in this game he recently doesn't seem scummy to me. He also yes, isn't the most useful recently but that's not my only point on sicklucker and since I'm sure about my case, why would I go for something I deem weaker? I am not talking about sicklucker. You just said he doesn't look scummy. Why? Like you are just doing what you accuse other for. Throw out some words with no reasoning. Why does he seem townie? I am asking you to DEFEND Fecalfeast because i sure can't do that. You seem to be able to do that. Why would you "deem weaker" by doing so? | ||
raynpelikoneet
Finland43266 Posts
The second sentence -- i meant "you just said FF doesn't look scummy" obvs. | ||
Serejai
6007 Posts
On November 14 2014 03:27 raynpelikoneet wrote: Show nested quote + On November 14 2014 03:23 Serejai wrote: This day is much more enjoyable than the last ![]() Could you vote for Fecalfeast? I can, but I'd rather lynch Elvis > Fecal > Obiwan in that order. | ||
Serejai
6007 Posts
On November 13 2014 08:53 Elvis! wrote: Fuck you sicklucker, you said you'll give me mad props if it's Sere. Also, I didn't buy his fake roleblock. Who got blocked? Fuck that person so much. On November 13 2014 08:54 Elvis! wrote: Also Sere, I had you by your non-existant balls, how did you wind out of that one? On November 13 2014 09:52 sicklucker wrote: It kinda makes sense from my pov. I said all day 2 if kush turns up mafia serejai is his partner. Then when kush showed up mafia I wasl literraly taunting him then he made that claim and HE DIDNT TAUNT ME BACK WTF. If this is true you know i kinda solved the game like last week right? I think some of you owe me an apology On November 13 2014 10:16 sicklucker wrote: I was 100% confident in this read unlike some of my rambles untill that fake claim came up, this is the best post to explain why I had the game solved before that and why I think I was serejais top mislynch. Even if I get lynched it was completely worth it to see these two post egotistical shit like this. | ||
raynpelikoneet
Finland43266 Posts
On November 14 2014 03:48 Serejai wrote: Show nested quote + On November 14 2014 03:27 raynpelikoneet wrote: On November 14 2014 03:23 Serejai wrote: This day is much more enjoyable than the last ![]() Could you vote for Fecalfeast? I can, but I'd rather lynch Elvis > Fecal > Obiwan in that order. We can lynch Elvis tomorrow. Now we need to lynch Fecal because you cannot get a majority on Elvis. | ||
Elvis!
Germany396 Posts
On November 14 2014 03:20 raynpelikoneet wrote: Show nested quote + On November 14 2014 02:55 Elvis! wrote: I'm not talking about you talking about confirming sicklucker but himself. Look how many of his posts are "I'm town because", "I'm definitely not scum because [WIFOM]". Again this doesn't make anyone mafia. I do that a lot. Like REALLY A LOT... as town. If you make it that doesn't make it townie play. Also, WIFOM. You can't be serious? I JUST re-asked the question,. I even UNDERLINED the part!!! There was one request you did not even a day ago. Calm down. Show nested quote + Did you see what the questions directed at him tried to do and how he just said they're all terrible and he doesn't even wanna read it? Could you re-ask the questions? I do not see myself lynching him but still. There is not much to talk about apparently so let's make him answer them if they exist. I'm not reasking all the like 30 questions that were directed and ignored by him to ask them again. There's no point if he doesn't feel like answering questions by certain people he won't change that judging on his play so far and him calling me shit literally a couple of pages ago. Show nested quote + Ignoring negative things said about him, well he ignores anything that's said about him. If he's scum, these questions are difficult to answer, if these he's scum he could expose information if he answers them. If he's town, there's nothing to lose when answering them. So as a conclusion, the only reason to ignore these questions is because you feel uncomfortable answering them or at most are lazy town. Not really. I do ignore a lot that's been asked from me as town because it doesn't help me/anyone find mafia and wastes my time (especially if i think the questions are stupid). So as i said, can you re-ask the questions so i can also evaluate if they are good or not, worth answering in other words. Questions weren't stupid. If you could just look at the pages I proposed yesterday and the following 10 you can see them. Show nested quote + Being lazy and not reading/researching meanwhile is what he's done all game. He posts a lot of stuff, but these aren't researched things. These are impulsive ideas that most of the time don't get us anywhere. Not necessarily a scum trait, in fact being impulsive is way more likely to be a town trait. I disagree with the last sentence. For example he was one of the first people to actually do something about "Sentinel is mafia". This is about the most important thing that has happened in this game for the town. Why is being impulsive a town trait? WIFOM and can easily be planned. Like why wouldn't scum do that to appear townie. EZSCUMGAMEEZLYFE. Also, yeah making a push on someone who has been pushed before (he just picked up ideas of other people - look at the times he posted it and what happened before that) isn't that great of a deal. Considering he's been changing who he thinks is scum like his underwear and basically considers most people scum this isn't a thing. Show nested quote + He posted so many plain wrong things, misconceptions and similair things that are just not acceptable as town. Then please show me where he made a serious case where he pushed someone because of a good amount of arguments and proof. He hasn't. None of his cases are reliable. Please show me where anyone (except you) has made a case that's "decent" by your standards? People have earlier in the game. Noone has recently, which is why I say that this town atmosphere is terrible. In other games this is a thing that happens, not here. Show nested quote + He is very active in the thread but tell me where he's been useful. You say he isn't, but with what reasoning? He was one of the main people pushing Sentinel. One could argue that's more "good for town" than you have done... In fact i am just arguing that. WIFOM and pushing a dead horse isn't incredible play. Like look at how kush and sent played, they gave up instantly. Show nested quote + You say you want examples of where he's pocketing people. Well, look at yourself. On the basis of what do you read him town? You never explained this is great detail, but him posting a lot and seeming active and talking about scenarios where he "must be townie" made you think so. Again I ask you: for what reasoning? I JUST GAVE THE REASONING!!! DID YOU EVEN READ MY POST?!?!?!? Not in the least sufficient for me. I chronologically went through it as you can see, so obviously I read it, no need to go ham. Show nested quote + There are a lot of reasons to believe he is scum and they line up well. He seems to have a strategy how to look town and follows that through. No there aren't. They are and why aren't they? Show nested quote + Looking from a perspective where he is mafia, what's his only aim at this point? Look townie. He tries a LOT to look townie. Looking from a perspective where he is townie, what's his aim at this point? Collect information and call out scum for good evidence. He has collected information, but has he called out scum with good evidence? I don't see it. All of this has been discussed in this same post before so i won't answer it multiple times. So you don't wanna talk about how he hasn't done really townie things and how he tries confirming himself 24/7. Hm, I guess that falls under the category "disregard the scummy deeds". Show nested quote + Still voting him and since noone is posting cases it looks like I'm going to stick with it. Saying "I think this person is mafia, please vote for him" with a couple of "proofs" that aren't more than wild guesses "the person is mafia, because [insert WIFOM argument here]" isn't making a case. You have called both flipped scum "possibly town" for WIFOM arguments and you are really arguing this? oh my gosh. ![]() Obviously everyone is possible town at any point. No reason to post this. Show nested quote + A last argument I want to make is how many of his arguments he constantly pulls back. "Medic should claim" "i guess he shouldn't". "This person is scummy" someone posts something different "i guess he isn't". This is more likely to come from a townie. Scum like to stick with their opinions. True fact. No they don't. Scum like to switch around so they don't get blamed. also: WIFOM Show nested quote + Also, a lot of his lynch reasoning is who is possible to be lynched today, especially already very early in the day. Mafia likes voting on the easy targets, he loves it. Yet he has voted for mafia on D2 and D3. Your "hard targets" were better? See? Like what the fuck is this argument? I don't even..... WIFOM. He always talks about which lynches can go through and since both his other scum gave up like 5 minutes into the game, he probably thought it's better to not rely on them and confirm himself town. Show nested quote + Also talking shit (and I'm not exaggerating) about people because they made a post about him and pleading that people should ignore it? The people can think for themselves, they can decide if it's bad or worthy, if he thinks it's not dangerous for him why does he care? Can you quote the post where he talks shit because i do not know what you are talking about. look at his filter and search "elvis" Show nested quote + So many things he posts are not only non-townie but very likely to have scum motivation behind them. ...and you still do not elaborate on this further... again, which posts? and why? I did elaborate this further, but if you don't look at any of the examples I post, I can't help you. Show nested quote + Also, look like he points out how serejai "pocketed" me, even though in his world she's town? Logic please? I never even said she's town? Also why me over everyone else? She didn't agree more to my posts about you than a couple of others. You're trying to make connections that don't exist. If I believe anyone to be town here it's probably Breshke. In case i am not mistaken that happened when Serejai claimed mafia, no? So that's only logical. she "gave up" and there was no end-of-game post yet and he read her town like for a long time. I'm mostly talking about him saying she pocketed me when there I wasn't ever agreeing to things she posted/protected her/ said she's even more than null. Good job for making the easiest read ever on Breshke. Except that if you do not think i am town you are mafia or delusional. You don't have to be town. There are scenarios where you're not, so you're not confirmed until you're dead since we don't have any more blues. I like how you never even comment on the "medic should claim". Like you just disregard all his scummy things. You sir, got pocketed. | ||
Serejai
6007 Posts
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43266 Posts
On November 14 2014 03:53 Serejai wrote: Also, I have no regrets. Show nested quote + On November 13 2014 08:53 Elvis! wrote: Fuck you sicklucker, you said you'll give me mad props if it's Sere. Also, I didn't buy his fake roleblock. Who got blocked? Fuck that person so much. Show nested quote + On November 13 2014 08:54 Elvis! wrote: Also Sere, I had you by your non-existant balls, how did you wind out of that one? Show nested quote + On November 13 2014 09:52 sicklucker wrote: It kinda makes sense from my pov. I said all day 2 if kush turns up mafia serejai is his partner. Then when kush showed up mafia I wasl literraly taunting him then he made that claim and HE DIDNT TAUNT ME BACK WTF. If this is true you know i kinda solved the game like last week right? I think some of you owe me an apology Show nested quote + On November 13 2014 10:16 sicklucker wrote: I was 100% confident in this read unlike some of my rambles untill that fake claim came up, this is the best post to explain why I had the game solved before that and why I think I was serejais top mislynch. Even if I get lynched it was completely worth it to see these two post egotistical shit like this. Yeah those are also quite townie posts.. All of them. So why Elvis? | ||
Elvis!
Germany396 Posts
There's only 1 mafia left and I'm pretty sure I caught one so what's the point? | ||
raynpelikoneet
Finland43266 Posts
On November 14 2014 03:54 Elvis! wrote: Show nested quote + On November 14 2014 03:20 raynpelikoneet wrote: On November 14 2014 02:55 Elvis! wrote: I'm not talking about you talking about confirming sicklucker but himself. Look how many of his posts are "I'm town because", "I'm definitely not scum because [WIFOM]". Again this doesn't make anyone mafia. I do that a lot. Like REALLY A LOT... as town. If you make it that doesn't make it townie play. Also, WIFOM. Also, where did I ignore questions directed at me? You can't be serious? I JUST re-asked the question,. I even UNDERLINED the part!!! There was one request you did not even a day ago. Calm down. Did you see what the questions directed at him tried to do and how he just said they're all terrible and he doesn't even wanna read it? Could you re-ask the questions? I do not see myself lynching him but still. There is not much to talk about apparently so let's make him answer them if they exist. I'm not reasking all the like 30 questions that were directed and ignored by him to ask them again. There's no point if he doesn't feel like answering questions by certain people he won't change that judging on his play so far and him calling me shit literally a couple of pages ago. Ignoring negative things said about him, well he ignores anything that's said about him. If he's scum, these questions are difficult to answer, if these he's scum he could expose information if he answers them. If he's town, there's nothing to lose when answering them. So as a conclusion, the only reason to ignore these questions is because you feel uncomfortable answering them or at most are lazy town. Not really. I do ignore a lot that's been asked from me as town because it doesn't help me/anyone find mafia and wastes my time (especially if i think the questions are stupid). So as i said, can you re-ask the questions so i can also evaluate if they are good or not, worth answering in other words. Questions weren't stupid. If you could just look at the pages I proposed yesterday and the following 10 you can see them. Being lazy and not reading/researching meanwhile is what he's done all game. He posts a lot of stuff, but these aren't researched things. These are impulsive ideas that most of the time don't get us anywhere. Not necessarily a scum trait, in fact being impulsive is way more likely to be a town trait. I disagree with the last sentence. For example he was one of the first people to actually do something about "Sentinel is mafia". This is about the most important thing that has happened in this game for the town. Why is being impulsive a town trait? WIFOM and can easily be planned. Like why wouldn't scum do that to appear townie. EZSCUMGAMEEZLYFE. Also, yeah making a push on someone who has been pushed before (he just picked up ideas of other people - look at the times he posted it and what happened before that) isn't that great of a deal. Considering he's been changing who he thinks is scum like his underwear and basically considers most people scum this isn't a thing. He posted so many plain wrong things, misconceptions and similair things that are just not acceptable as town. Then please show me where he made a serious case where he pushed someone because of a good amount of arguments and proof. He hasn't. None of his cases are reliable. Please show me where anyone (except you) has made a case that's "decent" by your standards? People have earlier in the game. Noone has recently, which is why I say that this town atmosphere is terrible. In other games this is a thing that happens, not here. He is very active in the thread but tell me where he's been useful. You say he isn't, but with what reasoning? He was one of the main people pushing Sentinel. One could argue that's more "good for town" than you have done... In fact i am just arguing that. WIFOM and pushing a dead horse isn't incredible play. Like look at how kush and sent played, they gave up instantly. You say you want examples of where he's pocketing people. Well, look at yourself. On the basis of what do you read him town? You never explained this is great detail, but him posting a lot and seeming active and talking about scenarios where he "must be townie" made you think so. Again I ask you: for what reasoning? I JUST GAVE THE REASONING!!! DID YOU EVEN READ MY POST?!?!?!? Not in the least sufficient for me. I chronologically went through it as you can see, so obviously I read it, no need to go ham. There are a lot of reasons to believe he is scum and they line up well. He seems to have a strategy how to look town and follows that through. No there aren't. They are and why aren't they? Looking from a perspective where he is mafia, what's his only aim at this point? Look townie. He tries a LOT to look townie. Looking from a perspective where he is townie, what's his aim at this point? Collect information and call out scum for good evidence. He has collected information, but has he called out scum with good evidence? I don't see it. All of this has been discussed in this same post before so i won't answer it multiple times. So you don't wanna talk about how he hasn't done really townie things and how he tries confirming himself 24/7. Hm, I guess that falls under the category "disregard the scummy deeds". Still voting him and since noone is posting cases it looks like I'm going to stick with it. Saying "I think this person is mafia, please vote for him" with a couple of "proofs" that aren't more than wild guesses "the person is mafia, because [insert WIFOM argument here]" isn't making a case. You have called both flipped scum "possibly town" for WIFOM arguments and you are really arguing this? oh my gosh. ![]() Obviously everyone is possible town at any point. No reason to post this. A last argument I want to make is how many of his arguments he constantly pulls back. "Medic should claim" "i guess he shouldn't". "This person is scummy" someone posts something different "i guess he isn't". This is more likely to come from a townie. Scum like to stick with their opinions. True fact. No they don't. Scum like to switch around so they don't get blamed. also: WIFOM Also, a lot of his lynch reasoning is who is possible to be lynched today, especially already very early in the day. Mafia likes voting on the easy targets, he loves it. Yet he has voted for mafia on D2 and D3. Your "hard targets" were better? See? Like what the fuck is this argument? I don't even..... WIFOM. He always talks about which lynches can go through and since both his other scum gave up like 5 minutes into the game, he probably thought it's better to not rely on them and confirm himself town. Also talking shit (and I'm not exaggerating) about people because they made a post about him and pleading that people should ignore it? The people can think for themselves, they can decide if it's bad or worthy, if he thinks it's not dangerous for him why does he care? Can you quote the post where he talks shit because i do not know what you are talking about. look at his filter and search "elvis" So many things he posts are not only non-townie but very likely to have scum motivation behind them. ...and you still do not elaborate on this further... again, which posts? and why? I did elaborate this further, but if you don't look at any of the examples I post, I can't help you. Also, look like he points out how serejai "pocketed" me, even though in his world she's town? Logic please? I never even said she's town? Also why me over everyone else? She didn't agree more to my posts about you than a couple of others. You're trying to make connections that don't exist. If I believe anyone to be town here it's probably Breshke. In case i am not mistaken that happened when Serejai claimed mafia, no? So that's only logical. she "gave up" and there was no end-of-game post yet and he read her town like for a long time. I'm mostly talking about him saying she pocketed me when there I wasn't ever agreeing to things she posted/protected her/ said she's even more than null. Good job for making the easiest read ever on Breshke. Except that if you do not think i am town you are mafia or delusional. You don't have to be town. There are scenarios where you're not, so you're not confirmed until you're dead since we don't have any more blues. I like how you never even comment on the "medic should claim". Like you just disregard all his scummy things. You sir, got pocketed. Are you seriously calling someone scum for saying "medic should claim"??? LIKE SERIOUSLY?? If you think saying something stupid is scummy you should have tunneled KSC/Cava and now Serejai 24/7 and never let go because THAT'S something that was really fucking stupid!!!! Dude if you are town you should seriously think a bit more what is actually scummy and what is just stupid. And no, there is literally no scenario where i am mafia. | ||
raynpelikoneet
Finland43266 Posts
On November 14 2014 03:55 Elvis! wrote: Why do I need to defend ff? What's it doing? There's only 1 mafia left and I'm pretty sure I caught one so what's the point? Because: 1) i want to figure out your alignment 2) you cannot lynch sicklucker 3) if you don't do that i guarantee you'll get lynched because you refuse to contribute towards clarifying your thought process -> proving you are town -- and if you do so i (and i will convince others) think you are pulling out shit from your ass and that's scummy. | ||
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