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It's astonishingly similar to the post you claimed to not have liked initially and I was waiting to see if you would pick up on it.
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
Hmm, still at weak town read.
For that post you pointed out, he points out all the things he disagrees with and it was followed by "my conclusion is that 3d12 is slightly green but I don't like how he thinks very much." This is an interesting read since it attempts to distinguish between the validity of his ideas and the motivations behind his posts. As mafia, I think it's really easy to point out all the bad thoughts and come to a scum conclusion as a result.
He could probably do well for himself by throwing some spoilers around the quotes, but there are enough spots where he responds to posts unprompted that don't give me the detached feeling that I was referring to earlier, that always makes me suspicious of Foolishness.
When I was reading on Newbie LVI, I did pick up on his habit to give thread updates to his availability, but it's tough to say how significant that is without a town example. I'm a terrible player for using the "he can't possibly roll scum 4 times in a row" argument, but that doesn't stop me from doing so 
I'd rather look elsewhere at the moment.
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On September 02 2014 05:25 kitaman27 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2014 05:12 mderg wrote:
IMO proper reads > catching people on missions True, though at this point nobody has any proper reads for at least a few more hours. I'd prefer to to speculate to see if we can come up with any policies to break the system. For example, if we all agree to cut the day cycle short by one hour as if that were the deadline and then all move our votes to whoever had the majority at that point, we might be able to trigger a failure on a vote related mission.Something else to keep in mind may be getting baited into using certain trigger words. For instance, perhaps the mafia player needs 3 people to say the phrase "OMGUS" during the cycle or something.
Or we might be able to trigger a success on a vote related mission.
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your Country52797 Posts
back, funny how I always get read as the opposite alignment on day1.
Reading
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your Country52797 Posts
On September 03 2014 09:34 kitaman27 wrote:Hmm, still at weak town read. For that post you pointed out, he points out all the things he disagrees with and it was followed by "my conclusion is that 3d12 is slightly green but I don't like how he thinks very much." This is an interesting read since it attempts to distinguish between the validity of his ideas and the motivations behind his posts. As mafia, I think it's really easy to point out all the bad thoughts and come to a scum conclusion as a result. He could probably do well for himself by throwing some spoilers around the quotes, but there are enough spots where he responds to posts unprompted that don't give me the detached feeling that I was referring to earlier, that always makes me suspicious of Foolishness. When I was reading on Newbie LVI, I did pick up on his habit to give thread updates to his availability, but it's tough to say how significant that is without a town example. I'm a terrible player for using the "he can't possibly roll scum 4 times in a row" argument, but that doesn't stop me from doing so I'd rather look elsewhere at the moment.
I got VT 12 times on a row in live mafia. Got to the point everyone assumed I was town every game. So don't assume it >.>
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your Country52797 Posts
On September 03 2014 08:59 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2014 11:10 kitaman27 wrote:On September 02 2014 10:42 Vivax wrote:Templar's long post wasn't all that interesting, but I won't fault him for sharing thoughts. It will be important to see if he continues to share thoughts rather than making disconnected catch up posts.
Also kita I want a followup to this now. Disconnected catch up post sounds like something you would scumread him for and I don't like how you willingly put a caveat in here. I wanna talk about templars post some more.
It would be a scum read if he does this repeatedly. It's too early to go after that for a single post. If he starts interacting with the thread, then I'm not as concerned. Who do you find worse, 3d12 or batsnack? Show nested quote +On September 03 2014 05:23 The_Templar wrote:I'm here again for another hour, as I am still working out kinks in my schedule. Sorry for being inconsistent about this. 3d12: On September 02 2014 09:06 3d12 wrote:Thanks Damdred, that was a good explanation. From my RL experience with Mafia, I've found it's usually good to have multiple options at the end of the day like you said, to be able to better piece together who is siding with whom in the long run. I'd say that's a defensible tactic to employ later on, but I'd agree that it serves no purpose in the first few days. Especially when we have no hint whatsoever as to what these missions are. From Templar's post, I think this stuck out to me the most:
And the missions are required for mafia… or they will die. I would say that's better for us anyway
He makes a good point. We're making a witch-hunt out of nothing right now. I think batsnacks is judging reactions and playing provocateur. He looks pretty town from where I'm standing, but I don't have all my chips on the table just yet.  I was initially a bit skeptical upon rereading this but 3d12 has not been too bad since then. He also gave the same read on ObiWan later (a move by kita which I seem to have messed with a bit). On September 02 2014 17:24 3d12 wrote:On September 02 2014 10:33 kitaman27 wrote:On September 02 2014 09:06 3d12 wrote:I think batsnacks is judging reactions and playing provocateur. He looks pretty town from where I'm standing, but I don't have all my chips on the table just yet. I see batsnacks voting templar after a large low quality post, but I don't see how you automatically come to this conclusion that his is town based on his vote and assume he is playing provocative. It makes me suspicious of you and I wonder if you may know he is town and are attempting to come up with an suggestion that explains his play without the information being there. On September 02 2014 03:16 Damdred wrote:
@3d when you return could you talk more about why you think bat is doing that (as in him being provocative etc) and why town bats would just do that and run out of the thread? Feels like you are giving him a pass on it to easily at this point, though I do not think it is beyond town bats to do it either. It wasn't who he voted for, it was how he voted and why. By casting a vote in a random direction, one can sit back and observe how people react to that vote. That's not typically Mafia behavior, though I will admit the long-winded post from earlier had me confused as well. All in all, it's a tough read; but if I had to imagine myself in his position, I wouldn't imagine he'd want to make such a big target out of himself on D1 if he were Mafia. Instead, I'll be focusing on the people using this event and the surrounding discussion to mask their contributions to the investigation at large. And currently exhibit A on my list is kushm4sta. Despite the awesomely understanding acceptance of my newbie ways, we haven't seen much from him aside from jumping on the batwagon and refuting Vivax -- who, in my opinion, is making the most sense out of anyone in this entire thread, myself included. Exhibit B is Micchan, who seems strangely quiet. I hope he hasn't gone AFK. This is a decent post, although I don't entirely agree with it. Mafia would love an excuse or some way to cause chaos and force a mislynch so making a weird off topic post (that hopefully makes them a null read) and random voting could work (although, either possibility is very odd). He didn't really explain his thoughts on vivax/kush very well in this post. But, he did try to clarify his opinions in his next post. On September 03 2014 01:04 3d12 wrote:On September 02 2014 22:26 kushm4sta wrote:On September 02 2014 17:24 3d12 wrote:
And currently exhibit A on my list is kushm4sta. Despite the awesomely understanding acceptance of my newbie ways, we haven't seen much from him aside from jumping on the batwagon and refuting Vivax -- who, in my opinion, is making the most sense out of anyone in this entire thread, myself included. Exhibit B is Micchan, who seems strangely quiet. I hope he hasn't gone AFK. So why am I scum? "jumping on the bandwagon?" not really a bandwagon since there are only two people voting for batsnacks, and I didn't really jump on it cause I was the first vote. "refuting vivax" Why are my refutations scummy? What has vivax said that makes sense? You're right, I thought I saw a third vote for batsnacks. Sorry. I wish there was a neater way to find the current vote count. Is there a program or something that I could use to loop through the thread and count the votes? As for refuting Vivax, I said that because Vivax is the one that I'm getting the most positive read from so far. He's pointed out very good inconsistency between Templar and kita, and even though Templar has made a few good posts to better explain his views, kita's evasiveness is something to be observed more closely, I think. On September 02 2014 22:12 kitaman27 wrote:On September 02 2014 17:24 3d12 wrote:
And currently exhibit A on my list is kushm4sta. Despite the awesomely understanding acceptance of my newbie ways, we haven't seen much from him aside from jumping on the batwagon and refuting Vivax -- who, in my opinion, is making the most sense out of anyone in this entire thread, myself included. Exhibit B is Micchan, who seems strangely quiet. I hope he hasn't gone AFK. How do you feel about obi and poofter so far? Obi is a bit of a mystery, but is starting to look more pink to me. The fact that he was so willing to vote out bat for what was likely a provocation post makes me question his motives, but the fact that he instantly switched his view to Templar after receiving some pressure is a bit more fishy. More data is needed, but the radar is definitely reading slightly pink. Poofter seems alright though; his posts are generally low-content, but unless we revisit the idea of missions involving post count, that's not enough for me to read him as scum. On September 02 2014 17:54 Oatsmaster wrote:
just saw 3d's post, calls out micchan for being quiet, doesnt call me out for not posting at all. Clearly sheeping someone's previous sentiment.
Or anticipating your mod-kill due to 12 hours without post.  Welcome to the game. (And my suspect list, lol) Care to share any opinion on Templar or mderg? I don't like this post, but at least he's giving reasoning on his thoughts on Obi and Poofter. His read on Oatsmaster is very odd if he actually suspects him. (BTW the posting rule is 1 post/1 vote per day/night cycle not 12 hours) On September 03 2014 01:30 3d12 wrote:On September 03 2014 01:11 Damdred wrote:
Actually 3d, why are you ignoring bunnies right now? She has said a couple times that she would be happy to get you out of the game, what do you think of that? Why did you put off commenting on it? Not worth comment, imo. She said herself that her read on me is only a "gut read," and if people are happy with bandwagoning on a gut feeling to have me lynched, I'll happily /obs and laugh as the scum runs away with the game. This is a worthless post that only serves to claim town when he's been very serious all game. He should at least address bunnies, even if it's just to give a read. On September 03 2014 03:07 3d12 wrote:On September 03 2014 02:22 kitaman27 wrote:On September 03 2014 02:21 kitaman27 wrote:On September 02 2014 17:24 3d12 wrote:
Obi is a bit of a mystery, but is starting to look more pink to me. The fact that he was so willing to vote out bat for what was likely a provocation post makes me question his motives, but the fact that he instantly switched his view to Templar after receiving some pressure is a bit more fishy. More data is needed, but the radar is definitely reading slightly pink. On September 02 2014 17:24 3d12 wrote:
It wasn't who he voted for, it was how he voted and why. By casting a vote in a random direction, one can sit back and observe how people react to that vote. That's not typically Mafia behavior, though I will admit the long-winded post from earlier had me confused as well. All in all, it's a tough read; but if I had to imagine myself in his position, I wouldn't imagine he'd want to make such a big target out of himself on D1 if he were Mafia. On September 02 2014 04:43 ObiWanShinobi wrote:
Reporting in.
##vote 27nb So why doesn't your logic that gives you a town read on bat, not apply to obi? Didn't he "cast a vote in a random direction"? You say bat wouldn't want to make a big target of himself as mafia by random voting, but obi would? This seems inconsistent to me. EBWOP If you'd asked me this 4 hours in, I'd have read Obi as green as I did bat. His opening vote was similarly provocative, and there was little reason to suspect. Since pushing to have bat plynched though, Obi has pointed fingers at two other parties and is acting much more defensive. I'm not voting yet, but Obi is definitely on my radar. On September 03 2014 01:38 Damdred wrote:On September 03 2014 01:30 3d12 wrote:On September 03 2014 01:11 Damdred wrote:
Actually 3d, why are you ignoring bunnies right now? She has said a couple times that she would be happy to get you out of the game, what do you think of that? Why did you put off commenting on it? Not worth comment, imo. She said herself that her read on me is only a "gut read," and if people are happy with bandwagoning on a gut feeling to have me lynched, I'll happily /obs and laugh as the scum runs away with the game. Well I can understand that. However what do you think of bunnies posts besides her gut feeling on you? What posts? Aside from a suspicious(ly silly) read on poofter and a CTA for a vigi on bat, she hasn't contributed much to the discussion so far. If anything, if the deadline was right now and I had to cast my vote, I think 27nb would be my choice. Stepping up and trying to publicly read poofter as town based on nothing but troll posts gives me a bad feeling that there may even be a bus straight to LYLO going on under our noses. If you think bunnies' activities make her lynchable right now you should probably explain the posts she has made... This for me falls into the category of a post that should have caught your attention and forged your opinion on him into a red way.
You are surprisingly wrong here. My post that kita didn't like was basically a short response to all of the posts in the thread. That post you quoted was my thoughts on one person's posting throughout the entire game.
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
On September 03 2014 10:02 batsnacks wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2014 05:25 kitaman27 wrote:On September 02 2014 05:12 mderg wrote:
IMO proper reads > catching people on missions True, though at this point nobody has any proper reads for at least a few more hours. I'd prefer to to speculate to see if we can come up with any policies to break the system. For example, if we all agree to cut the day cycle short by one hour as if that were the deadline and then all move our votes to whoever had the majority at that point, we might be able to trigger a failure on a vote related mission.Something else to keep in mind may be getting baited into using certain trigger words. For instance, perhaps the mafia player needs 3 people to say the phrase "OMGUS" during the cycle or something. Or we might be able to trigger a success on a vote related mission.
Unlikely, too difficult to achieve without a cop claim.
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your Country52797 Posts
On September 03 2014 08:20 Tehpoofter wrote:Bang: Vivax - His reads have aligned with mine I liked the way he answered the buddying question I asked him last night he felt like he while disagreeing with me had a townie mindset. Kill - Micchan - See my case on him he hasn't posted hardly anything and what he has posted has just set off scum alarms every single time we should all be voting this dude! Link to the post!The_Templar - His read on 3d12 that I was questioning him on felt really odd to me it seemed like to me a mafia either soft defending a newbish scumbuddy or soft defending a townie enough to hopefully not get blamed for his lynch. If his mission was defend several townies or a buddy this would make sense something about reading his post felt forced to me. I know also Templar as scum can come out of the gates firing as scum in the newbie game I saw him play in he had the 2nd if not the biggest filter and I think this reminds me of that game. To all of you so I can read you a bit better where do you stand? Have you voted Micchan yet?
Your read on Vivax: As someone who has been mafia several times in a row recently, I can tell you that it's a terrible idea to town read someone based on their reads. Most players can give alignment-neutral reads and I've seen players get terribly confused later on because the people that had the same reads as them turned out to be mafia. Regarding the rest, can you say exactly how he has a "townie mindset"? I don't see it at all.
Your read on Micchan: I don't like the post you linked to. These are all valid points but he's not making a difference at all since he's lurked a lot and I want to see how he develops over the next ~12 hours before voting him. There's not a rush to figure things out here yet.
Your read on me: I want clarification on that bolded part. In response to me coming out of the gates firing as scum: have you ever seen me play town? (hint: it's never happened before this game)
Can you really determine my town/scum meta when compared to the other considering there's no evidence of the former?
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your Country52797 Posts
On September 03 2014 10:02 batsnacks wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2014 05:25 kitaman27 wrote:On September 02 2014 05:12 mderg wrote:
IMO proper reads > catching people on missions True, though at this point nobody has any proper reads for at least a few more hours. I'd prefer to to speculate to see if we can come up with any policies to break the system. For example, if we all agree to cut the day cycle short by one hour as if that were the deadline and then all move our votes to whoever had the majority at that point, we might be able to trigger a failure on a vote related mission.Something else to keep in mind may be getting baited into using certain trigger words. For instance, perhaps the mafia player needs 3 people to say the phrase "OMGUS" during the cycle or something. Or we might be able to trigger a success on a vote related mission.
That's in response to an old, irrelevant post. I guess you should have started playing sooner. 
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your Country52797 Posts
On September 03 2014 07:14 batsnacks wrote:Show nested quote +On September 03 2014 06:48 Tehpoofter wrote:On September 03 2014 06:42 batsnacks wrote:On September 03 2014 06:39 Tehpoofter wrote:On September 03 2014 06:35 mderg wrote:On September 03 2014 06:22 kushm4sta wrote:On September 03 2014 05:38 mderg wrote:
Anyone else thinking that 3d12 is trying hard to get some newbie bonus? how so These give off that feeling to me. I may be thinking too much into it, though. On September 02 2014 08:44 3d12 wrote:
Forgive me if this seems like kind of a newbie question, but after catching up on the thread, the main thing that sticks out to me is the discussion about the voting. I'm not sure this is a good way to flush out scum. Personally, I'm with Damdred on the opinion that cutting the vote off early will cause tunneling on whoever has the majority at that point, so could someone enlighten me further on why this strategy would help? On September 02 2014 09:09 3d12 wrote:Edit-post to fix quote formatting: On September 02 2014 08:08 The_Templar wrote:
And the missions are required for mafia… or they will die. I would say that's better for us anyway.
I didn't quote the post directly. Sorry. On September 03 2014 01:04 3d12 wrote:
You're right, I thought I saw a third vote for batsnacks. Sorry. I wish there was a neater way to find the current vote count. Is there a program or something that I could use to loop through the thread and count the votes?
I think thats a stretch I don't think I'd give him townie points for any of these posts as even as a noob you could say them from either alignment. I think its is townie of you to point it out like it seems as if you're looking for scum. Would you agree that 3d12's posts carry an apologetic tone? If yes, why do you think he is posting this way? I do think that he is apologetic in nature on his posts. His entrance landed him in the scummy side for me because of the way it agreed with someone who already posted about something I thought was scummy. If hes scum its to try to scoot out of a lynch. He could be town trying to figure things out. He stays as scum for now to me thought. What about you? I agree that his tone sounds apologetic but I do not think in his case that this is alignment indicative. Reading his filter, I noticed he has been posting like this since before the game even began. Here are some posts before the game started: Show nested quote +On August 30 2014 00:51 3d12 wrote:
/in
I've never played, so if you're alright with a newbie joining in, then please do sign me up. I've read a few of the guides already though, and it seems like an interesting format. Seems like the type of game that might even be more fun in IRC format. Show nested quote +On August 30 2014 05:50 3d12 wrote:
Sorry for the double-post, but I just wanted to double-check. (And bear with me, this is only the first of what will likely be a deluge of dumb newbie questions)
Is the deadline of 12:30pm PDT the deadline for confirmation, or the deadline to post each day? Then this is his first post as of the game starting: Show nested quote +On September 02 2014 08:44 3d12 wrote:
Forgive me if this seems like kind of a newbie question, but after catching up on the thread, the main thing that sticks out to me is the discussion about the voting. I'm not sure this is a good way to flush out scum. Personally, I'm with Damdred on the opinion that cutting the vote off early will cause tunneling on whoever has the majority at that point, so could someone enlighten me further on why this strategy would help? An apologetic tone would usually raise alarm bells for me. Townies are inherently innocent and shouldn't be afraid of saying the wrong thing or accidentally saying too much; they have no reason to apologize. If townies are afraid of speaking their mind that might be an indicator of a poor thread environment. However, since 3d12 has been posting like this since before the game began I believe he's just nervous about playing in general. People have been going after him since his first post so there hasn't even been an opportunity for him to calm down yet. Overall I do not think 3d12's apologies are scummy.
What do you think about 3d12's actual posts?
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Back from a long break I was reading your filter on lunch Templar and I wanted to tell you that this post made me chuckle way too much while eating. I think I must have just skimmed it earlier when reading through the thread.
On September 03 2014 02:32 The_Templar wrote:Show nested quote +On September 03 2014 02:28 Micchan wrote:
Ok here whatever
Im srry 3d i highly suspect ing u after backtracking...ur obviously trying to divert attention rn... this forum only speaks english
Time to get back to reading!
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On September 03 2014 10:15 The_Templar wrote:Show nested quote +On September 03 2014 08:20 Tehpoofter wrote:Bang: Vivax - His reads have aligned with mine I liked the way he answered the buddying question I asked him last night he felt like he while disagreeing with me had a townie mindset. Kill - Micchan - See my case on him he hasn't posted hardly anything and what he has posted has just set off scum alarms every single time we should all be voting this dude! Link to the post!The_Templar - His read on 3d12 that I was questioning him on felt really odd to me it seemed like to me a mafia either soft defending a newbish scumbuddy or soft defending a townie enough to hopefully not get blamed for his lynch. If his mission was defend several townies or a buddy this would make sense something about reading his post felt forced to me. I know also Templar as scum can come out of the gates firing as scum in the newbie game I saw him play in he had the 2nd if not the biggest filter and I think this reminds me of that game. To all of you so I can read you a bit better where do you stand? Have you voted Micchan yet? Your read on Vivax: As someone who has been mafia several times in a row recently, I can tell you that it's a terrible idea to town read someone based on their reads. Most players can give alignment-neutral reads and I've seen players get terribly confused later on because the people that had the same reads as them turned out to be mafia. Regarding the rest, can you say exactly how he has a "townie mindset"? I don't see it at all.
Why would you write this about someone you never openly considered as scum in your filter.
Last thing you said about me is how me bringing up something repeatedly was odd.
It just looks like you try to discredit me for no reason, since your filter lacks the motivation to push me as a scumread.
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On September 03 2014 08:52 kitaman27 wrote:
List post time.
Mostly Townish
Tehpoofter - Wouldn't look into on day one due to activity. Generally agreeable.
Vivax is an incredibly lazy scum from my experience, which isn't on par from what we've seen so far, which makes me lean town. He did pick up a spot where templar seemed to change opinions about myself, which shows he is reading. Wouldn't lynch.
mderg - This is kinda silly but I'm leaning town due to "I thought a bit about how to deal with missions". The mafia team obviously wouldn't think about how to deal with the missions. It's always possible that he is mafia pretending to think about them to throw us off, but I'm not leaning that way right now.
Damdred - "I really like the idea of trying to break the mafias mission as we go towards the Eo" This quote shows interest in generating a plan, which is generally townie thing to say. Again, probably a silly thing to make a read off of, but he would have to look pretty bad the second half of the day to consider lynching.
batsnacks - "I don't know who are mafia yet" is generally something a townie will say earlier on in my opinion. Need more content.
The_Templar - Townie....I think.
obi does seem just as....blunt I suppose I'm look for....in the past games that I looked through as both alignments. I don't have a great feel one way or the other here.
Scummyish
oats is flying under the radar, which I associate with the last time he was scum that we played together. Effort seems suspect based on mentioning how he can't remember certain details multiple times. His posts make me think he has read the last 3-5 posts in the thread, picked one of them to reply to and moved on.
kush is someone I usually think is scum. Whenever I look through his past games, as soon as I think I've found a pattern, he flips the opposite alignment and I need to throw the idea out the window. His speculation about templar having to post a "long post" as a mission was really poor and I don't see that as something a town player sees as likely so I have him closer to mafia than town right now, but I'd probably want to hear more opinions from others about his overall play so far.
Micchan is definitely the low hanging fruit of the cycle. Typically I like pushing these types of lynches just as much as mafia do. I'm having trouble envisioning a scenario where he would be helpful on day three. The comment about 3d diverting attention seems sensationalized to me. His other post is a complaint without doing anything and a unnecessary defense. I might put myself in a bad spot if he flips green, but he may be my preferred lynch right now.
I want to reread 3d since there were a bunch of things he said that rubbed me the wrong way, but I want to avoid the confirmation bias. I've ignored bunnies for the most part so I will reread her as well. I remember that she was commenting about a few things way past it being relevant, but that's about it.
I disagree with some of your reads my main question to you is why does it seem like a bunch of your reads come from early in the thread. (I realize its relatively short thread but still) Like your read on kush comes from his 4th post. I feel like hes given a good amount since then so it concerns me thats where your scum read is coming from.
Can you expand on the Templar read?
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Vote Count – Day 1
27ninjabunnies (0): Obiwanshinobi, Tehpoofter
Tehpoofter (0): 27ninjabunnies
The_Templar (0): batsnacks
batsnacks (2): kushm4sta, Obiwanshinobi
Micchan (1): Tehpoofter
Obiwanshinobi (1): Oatsmaster
Not voting (-): Everyone else
Currently, batsnacks is set to be lynched with 2 votes.
Please contact the mods if the vote count is incorrect. Thank you!
Day 1 will end in (19:30 GMT (+00:00)).
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On September 03 2014 07:25 batsnacks wrote:
The OP says a voting thread will be used. I should probably take my vote off templar in that case. I didn't think it would count when I voted.
Sorry about that. That has been fixed.
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your Country52797 Posts
On September 03 2014 06:11 Tehpoofter wrote:Show nested quote +On September 03 2014 06:02 The_Templar wrote:On September 03 2014 06:00 Tehpoofter wrote:On September 03 2014 05:46 The_Templar wrote:On September 03 2014 05:44 mderg wrote:On September 03 2014 05:23 The_Templar wrote:I'm here again for another hour, as I am still working out kinks in my schedule. Sorry for being inconsistent about this. 3d12: On September 02 2014 09:06 3d12 wrote:Thanks Damdred, that was a good explanation. From my RL experience with Mafia, I've found it's usually good to have multiple options at the end of the day like you said, to be able to better piece together who is siding with whom in the long run. I'd say that's a defensible tactic to employ later on, but I'd agree that it serves no purpose in the first few days. Especially when we have no hint whatsoever as to what these missions are. From Templar's post, I think this stuck out to me the most:
And the missions are required for mafia… or they will die. I would say that's better for us anyway
He makes a good point. We're making a witch-hunt out of nothing right now. I think batsnacks is judging reactions and playing provocateur. He looks pretty town from where I'm standing, but I don't have all my chips on the table just yet. I was initially a bit skeptical upon rereading this but 3d12 has not been too bad since then. He also gave the same read on ObiWan later (a move by kita which I seem to have messed with a bit). On September 02 2014 17:24 3d12 wrote:On September 02 2014 10:33 kitaman27 wrote:On September 02 2014 09:06 3d12 wrote:I think batsnacks is judging reactions and playing provocateur. He looks pretty town from where I'm standing, but I don't have all my chips on the table just yet. I see batsnacks voting templar after a large low quality post, but I don't see how you automatically come to this conclusion that his is town based on his vote and assume he is playing provocative. It makes me suspicious of you and I wonder if you may know he is town and are attempting to come up with an suggestion that explains his play without the information being there. On September 02 2014 03:16 Damdred wrote:
@3d when you return could you talk more about why you think bat is doing that (as in him being provocative etc) and why town bats would just do that and run out of the thread? Feels like you are giving him a pass on it to easily at this point, though I do not think it is beyond town bats to do it either. It wasn't who he voted for, it was how he voted and why. By casting a vote in a random direction, one can sit back and observe how people react to that vote. That's not typically Mafia behavior, though I will admit the long-winded post from earlier had me confused as well. All in all, it's a tough read; but if I had to imagine myself in his position, I wouldn't imagine he'd want to make such a big target out of himself on D1 if he were Mafia. Instead, I'll be focusing on the people using this event and the surrounding discussion to mask their contributions to the investigation at large. And currently exhibit A on my list is kushm4sta. Despite the awesomely understanding acceptance of my newbie ways, we haven't seen much from him aside from jumping on the batwagon and refuting Vivax -- who, in my opinion, is making the most sense out of anyone in this entire thread, myself included. Exhibit B is Micchan, who seems strangely quiet. I hope he hasn't gone AFK. This is a decent post, although I don't entirely agree with it. Mafia would love an excuse or some way to cause chaos and force a mislynch so making a weird off topic post (that hopefully makes them a null read) and random voting could work (although, either possibility is very odd). He didn't really explain his thoughts on vivax/kush very well in this post. But, he did try to clarify his opinions in his next post. On September 03 2014 01:04 3d12 wrote:On September 02 2014 22:26 kushm4sta wrote:On September 02 2014 17:24 3d12 wrote:
And currently exhibit A on my list is kushm4sta. Despite the awesomely understanding acceptance of my newbie ways, we haven't seen much from him aside from jumping on the batwagon and refuting Vivax -- who, in my opinion, is making the most sense out of anyone in this entire thread, myself included. Exhibit B is Micchan, who seems strangely quiet. I hope he hasn't gone AFK. So why am I scum? "jumping on the bandwagon?" not really a bandwagon since there are only two people voting for batsnacks, and I didn't really jump on it cause I was the first vote. "refuting vivax" Why are my refutations scummy? What has vivax said that makes sense? You're right, I thought I saw a third vote for batsnacks. Sorry. I wish there was a neater way to find the current vote count. Is there a program or something that I could use to loop through the thread and count the votes? As for refuting Vivax, I said that because Vivax is the one that I'm getting the most positive read from so far. He's pointed out very good inconsistency between Templar and kita, and even though Templar has made a few good posts to better explain his views, kita's evasiveness is something to be observed more closely, I think. On September 02 2014 22:12 kitaman27 wrote:On September 02 2014 17:24 3d12 wrote:
And currently exhibit A on my list is kushm4sta. Despite the awesomely understanding acceptance of my newbie ways, we haven't seen much from him aside from jumping on the batwagon and refuting Vivax -- who, in my opinion, is making the most sense out of anyone in this entire thread, myself included. Exhibit B is Micchan, who seems strangely quiet. I hope he hasn't gone AFK. How do you feel about obi and poofter so far? Obi is a bit of a mystery, but is starting to look more pink to me. The fact that he was so willing to vote out bat for what was likely a provocation post makes me question his motives, but the fact that he instantly switched his view to Templar after receiving some pressure is a bit more fishy. More data is needed, but the radar is definitely reading slightly pink. Poofter seems alright though; his posts are generally low-content, but unless we revisit the idea of missions involving post count, that's not enough for me to read him as scum. On September 02 2014 17:54 Oatsmaster wrote:
just saw 3d's post, calls out micchan for being quiet, doesnt call me out for not posting at all. Clearly sheeping someone's previous sentiment.
Or anticipating your mod-kill due to 12 hours without post. Welcome to the game. (And my suspect list, lol) Care to share any opinion on Templar or mderg? I don't like this post, but at least he's giving reasoning on his thoughts on Obi and Poofter. His read on Oatsmaster is very odd if he actually suspects him. (BTW the posting rule is 1 post/1 vote per day/night cycle not 12 hours) On September 03 2014 01:30 3d12 wrote:On September 03 2014 01:11 Damdred wrote:
Actually 3d, why are you ignoring bunnies right now? She has said a couple times that she would be happy to get you out of the game, what do you think of that? Why did you put off commenting on it? Not worth comment, imo. She said herself that her read on me is only a "gut read," and if people are happy with bandwagoning on a gut feeling to have me lynched, I'll happily /obs and laugh as the scum runs away with the game. This is a worthless post that only serves to claim town when he's been very serious all game. He should at least address bunnies, even if it's just to give a read. On September 03 2014 03:07 3d12 wrote:On September 03 2014 02:22 kitaman27 wrote:On September 03 2014 02:21 kitaman27 wrote:On September 02 2014 17:24 3d12 wrote:
Obi is a bit of a mystery, but is starting to look more pink to me. The fact that he was so willing to vote out bat for what was likely a provocation post makes me question his motives, but the fact that he instantly switched his view to Templar after receiving some pressure is a bit more fishy. More data is needed, but the radar is definitely reading slightly pink. On September 02 2014 17:24 3d12 wrote:
It wasn't who he voted for, it was how he voted and why. By casting a vote in a random direction, one can sit back and observe how people react to that vote. That's not typically Mafia behavior, though I will admit the long-winded post from earlier had me confused as well. All in all, it's a tough read; but if I had to imagine myself in his position, I wouldn't imagine he'd want to make such a big target out of himself on D1 if he were Mafia. On September 02 2014 04:43 ObiWanShinobi wrote:
Reporting in.
##vote 27nb So why doesn't your logic that gives you a town read on bat, not apply to obi? Didn't he "cast a vote in a random direction"? You say bat wouldn't want to make a big target of himself as mafia by random voting, but obi would? This seems inconsistent to me. EBWOP If you'd asked me this 4 hours in, I'd have read Obi as green as I did bat. His opening vote was similarly provocative, and there was little reason to suspect. Since pushing to have bat plynched though, Obi has pointed fingers at two other parties and is acting much more defensive. I'm not voting yet, but Obi is definitely on my radar. On September 03 2014 01:38 Damdred wrote:On September 03 2014 01:30 3d12 wrote:On September 03 2014 01:11 Damdred wrote:
Actually 3d, why are you ignoring bunnies right now? She has said a couple times that she would be happy to get you out of the game, what do you think of that? Why did you put off commenting on it? Not worth comment, imo. She said herself that her read on me is only a "gut read," and if people are happy with bandwagoning on a gut feeling to have me lynched, I'll happily /obs and laugh as the scum runs away with the game. Well I can understand that. However what do you think of bunnies posts besides her gut feeling on you? What posts? Aside from a suspicious(ly silly) read on poofter and a CTA for a vigi on bat, she hasn't contributed much to the discussion so far. If anything, if the deadline was right now and I had to cast my vote, I think 27nb would be my choice. Stepping up and trying to publicly read poofter as town based on nothing but troll posts gives me a bad feeling that there may even be a bus straight to LYLO going on under our noses. If you think bunnies' activities make her lynchable right now you should probably explain the posts she has made... I don't like this post. A huge post about 3d12 but it doesn't actually say much. Why even take the time to go through this amount of posts, if you don't have a real conclusion or anything? that is not a huge post. That is a small post by my standards. To answer your question, my conclusion is that 3d12 is slightly green but I don't like how he thinks very much. If he wasn't a newbie what color would he be? probably still slightly green since there's nothing particularly wrong with his posts other than what I put in my post. I think its scummy that you're saying you're giving him newbie passes and still would lean slightly green on him (the same read) if he wasn't a newbie. Wouldn't your newbie passes inherently make his towniness increase? I think you might be throwing the newbie pass out there as an excuse for him like soft defending and then giving him a town read. Please explain why the rating doesn't change.
That is not what I said. I said that I've been subconsciously giving him points for a newbie. I have been realizing my mistake before I post though and re-evaluate my opinions on him, remembering not to give him points for being a noob
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On September 03 2014 10:15 The_Templar wrote:Show nested quote +On September 03 2014 08:20 Tehpoofter wrote:Bang: Vivax - His reads have aligned with mine I liked the way he answered the buddying question I asked him last night he felt like he while disagreeing with me had a townie mindset. Kill - Micchan - See my case on him he hasn't posted hardly anything and what he has posted has just set off scum alarms every single time we should all be voting this dude! Link to the post!The_Templar - His read on 3d12 that I was questioning him on felt really odd to me it seemed like to me a mafia either soft defending a newbish scumbuddy or soft defending a townie enough to hopefully not get blamed for his lynch. If his mission was defend several townies or a buddy this would make sense something about reading his post felt forced to me. I know also Templar as scum can come out of the gates firing as scum in the newbie game I saw him play in he had the 2nd if not the biggest filter and I think this reminds me of that game. To all of you so I can read you a bit better where do you stand? Have you voted Micchan yet? Your read on Vivax: As someone who has been mafia several times in a row recently, I can tell you that it's a terrible idea to town read someone based on their reads. Most players can give alignment-neutral reads and I've seen players get terribly confused later on because the people that had the same reads as them turned out to be mafia. Regarding the rest, can you say exactly how he has a "townie mindset"? I don't see it at all. Your read on Micchan: I don't like the post you linked to. These are all valid points but he's not making a difference at all since he's lurked a lot and I want to see how he develops over the next ~12 hours before voting him. There's not a rush to figure things out here yet. Your read on me: I want clarification on that bolded part. In response to me coming out of the gates firing as scum: have you ever seen me play town? (hint: it's never happened before this game) Can you really determine my town/scum meta when compared to the other considering there's no evidence of the former?
So hes not making a difference at all? Interesting you find that a townie quality?
I think that the way you talked about 3d12 was really awkward. The tone of it sounded like you didn't truly believe what you were saying. Like the read was superficial to me I can't really express what I'm saying well but it didn't feel like you were all there or behind the read.
As for your play if you have only played scum and I see similar tendencies to your previous games where you were scum before. I will concede that it may just be since I've only seen you as scum seeing your town game might have some parts of it that appear as your scum game but you must understand from my pov I have no clue if you're town or mafia so if I see red flags from a scum game I've seen I most certainly will call that out.
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your Country52797 Posts
On September 03 2014 10:48 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On September 03 2014 10:15 The_Templar wrote:On September 03 2014 08:20 Tehpoofter wrote:Bang: Vivax - His reads have aligned with mine I liked the way he answered the buddying question I asked him last night he felt like he while disagreeing with me had a townie mindset. Kill - Micchan - See my case on him he hasn't posted hardly anything and what he has posted has just set off scum alarms every single time we should all be voting this dude! Link to the post!The_Templar - His read on 3d12 that I was questioning him on felt really odd to me it seemed like to me a mafia either soft defending a newbish scumbuddy or soft defending a townie enough to hopefully not get blamed for his lynch. If his mission was defend several townies or a buddy this would make sense something about reading his post felt forced to me. I know also Templar as scum can come out of the gates firing as scum in the newbie game I saw him play in he had the 2nd if not the biggest filter and I think this reminds me of that game. To all of you so I can read you a bit better where do you stand? Have you voted Micchan yet? Your read on Vivax: As someone who has been mafia several times in a row recently, I can tell you that it's a terrible idea to town read someone based on their reads. Most players can give alignment-neutral reads and I've seen players get terribly confused later on because the people that had the same reads as them turned out to be mafia. Regarding the rest, can you say exactly how he has a "townie mindset"? I don't see it at all. Why would you write this about someone you never openly considered as scum in your filter. Last thing you said about me is how me bringing up something repeatedly was odd. It just looks like you try to discredit me for no reason, since your filter lacks the motivation to push me as a scumread.
Sorry, forgot that I have to read someone as red to disagree with them and say that they could be red.
Fine let's play it your way. You are red. Happy now?
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On September 03 2014 11:17 The_Templar wrote:Show nested quote +On September 03 2014 06:11 Tehpoofter wrote:On September 03 2014 06:02 The_Templar wrote:On September 03 2014 06:00 Tehpoofter wrote:On September 03 2014 05:46 The_Templar wrote:On September 03 2014 05:44 mderg wrote:On September 03 2014 05:23 The_Templar wrote:I'm here again for another hour, as I am still working out kinks in my schedule. Sorry for being inconsistent about this. 3d12: On September 02 2014 09:06 3d12 wrote:Thanks Damdred, that was a good explanation. From my RL experience with Mafia, I've found it's usually good to have multiple options at the end of the day like you said, to be able to better piece together who is siding with whom in the long run. I'd say that's a defensible tactic to employ later on, but I'd agree that it serves no purpose in the first few days. Especially when we have no hint whatsoever as to what these missions are. From Templar's post, I think this stuck out to me the most:
And the missions are required for mafia… or they will die. I would say that's better for us anyway
He makes a good point. We're making a witch-hunt out of nothing right now. I think batsnacks is judging reactions and playing provocateur. He looks pretty town from where I'm standing, but I don't have all my chips on the table just yet. I was initially a bit skeptical upon rereading this but 3d12 has not been too bad since then. He also gave the same read on ObiWan later (a move by kita which I seem to have messed with a bit). On September 02 2014 17:24 3d12 wrote:On September 02 2014 10:33 kitaman27 wrote:On September 02 2014 09:06 3d12 wrote:I think batsnacks is judging reactions and playing provocateur. He looks pretty town from where I'm standing, but I don't have all my chips on the table just yet. I see batsnacks voting templar after a large low quality post, but I don't see how you automatically come to this conclusion that his is town based on his vote and assume he is playing provocative. It makes me suspicious of you and I wonder if you may know he is town and are attempting to come up with an suggestion that explains his play without the information being there. On September 02 2014 03:16 Damdred wrote:
@3d when you return could you talk more about why you think bat is doing that (as in him being provocative etc) and why town bats would just do that and run out of the thread? Feels like you are giving him a pass on it to easily at this point, though I do not think it is beyond town bats to do it either. It wasn't who he voted for, it was how he voted and why. By casting a vote in a random direction, one can sit back and observe how people react to that vote. That's not typically Mafia behavior, though I will admit the long-winded post from earlier had me confused as well. All in all, it's a tough read; but if I had to imagine myself in his position, I wouldn't imagine he'd want to make such a big target out of himself on D1 if he were Mafia. Instead, I'll be focusing on the people using this event and the surrounding discussion to mask their contributions to the investigation at large. And currently exhibit A on my list is kushm4sta. Despite the awesomely understanding acceptance of my newbie ways, we haven't seen much from him aside from jumping on the batwagon and refuting Vivax -- who, in my opinion, is making the most sense out of anyone in this entire thread, myself included. Exhibit B is Micchan, who seems strangely quiet. I hope he hasn't gone AFK. This is a decent post, although I don't entirely agree with it. Mafia would love an excuse or some way to cause chaos and force a mislynch so making a weird off topic post (that hopefully makes them a null read) and random voting could work (although, either possibility is very odd). He didn't really explain his thoughts on vivax/kush very well in this post. But, he did try to clarify his opinions in his next post. On September 03 2014 01:04 3d12 wrote:On September 02 2014 22:26 kushm4sta wrote:On September 02 2014 17:24 3d12 wrote:
And currently exhibit A on my list is kushm4sta. Despite the awesomely understanding acceptance of my newbie ways, we haven't seen much from him aside from jumping on the batwagon and refuting Vivax -- who, in my opinion, is making the most sense out of anyone in this entire thread, myself included. Exhibit B is Micchan, who seems strangely quiet. I hope he hasn't gone AFK. So why am I scum? "jumping on the bandwagon?" not really a bandwagon since there are only two people voting for batsnacks, and I didn't really jump on it cause I was the first vote. "refuting vivax" Why are my refutations scummy? What has vivax said that makes sense? You're right, I thought I saw a third vote for batsnacks. Sorry. I wish there was a neater way to find the current vote count. Is there a program or something that I could use to loop through the thread and count the votes? As for refuting Vivax, I said that because Vivax is the one that I'm getting the most positive read from so far. He's pointed out very good inconsistency between Templar and kita, and even though Templar has made a few good posts to better explain his views, kita's evasiveness is something to be observed more closely, I think. On September 02 2014 22:12 kitaman27 wrote:On September 02 2014 17:24 3d12 wrote:
And currently exhibit A on my list is kushm4sta. Despite the awesomely understanding acceptance of my newbie ways, we haven't seen much from him aside from jumping on the batwagon and refuting Vivax -- who, in my opinion, is making the most sense out of anyone in this entire thread, myself included. Exhibit B is Micchan, who seems strangely quiet. I hope he hasn't gone AFK. How do you feel about obi and poofter so far? Obi is a bit of a mystery, but is starting to look more pink to me. The fact that he was so willing to vote out bat for what was likely a provocation post makes me question his motives, but the fact that he instantly switched his view to Templar after receiving some pressure is a bit more fishy. More data is needed, but the radar is definitely reading slightly pink. Poofter seems alright though; his posts are generally low-content, but unless we revisit the idea of missions involving post count, that's not enough for me to read him as scum. On September 02 2014 17:54 Oatsmaster wrote:
just saw 3d's post, calls out micchan for being quiet, doesnt call me out for not posting at all. Clearly sheeping someone's previous sentiment.
Or anticipating your mod-kill due to 12 hours without post. Welcome to the game. (And my suspect list, lol) Care to share any opinion on Templar or mderg? I don't like this post, but at least he's giving reasoning on his thoughts on Obi and Poofter. His read on Oatsmaster is very odd if he actually suspects him. (BTW the posting rule is 1 post/1 vote per day/night cycle not 12 hours) On September 03 2014 01:30 3d12 wrote:On September 03 2014 01:11 Damdred wrote:
Actually 3d, why are you ignoring bunnies right now? She has said a couple times that she would be happy to get you out of the game, what do you think of that? Why did you put off commenting on it? Not worth comment, imo. She said herself that her read on me is only a "gut read," and if people are happy with bandwagoning on a gut feeling to have me lynched, I'll happily /obs and laugh as the scum runs away with the game. This is a worthless post that only serves to claim town when he's been very serious all game. He should at least address bunnies, even if it's just to give a read. On September 03 2014 03:07 3d12 wrote:On September 03 2014 02:22 kitaman27 wrote:On September 03 2014 02:21 kitaman27 wrote:
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So why doesn't your logic that gives you a town read on bat, not apply to obi? Didn't he "cast a vote in a random direction"? You say bat wouldn't want to make a big target of himself as mafia by random voting, but obi would? This seems inconsistent to me. EBWOP If you'd asked me this 4 hours in, I'd have read Obi as green as I did bat. His opening vote was similarly provocative, and there was little reason to suspect. Since pushing to have bat plynched though, Obi has pointed fingers at two other parties and is acting much more defensive. I'm not voting yet, but Obi is definitely on my radar. On September 03 2014 01:38 Damdred wrote:On September 03 2014 01:30 3d12 wrote:
[quote]
Not worth comment, imo. She said herself that her read on me is only a "gut read," and if people are happy with bandwagoning on a gut feeling to have me lynched, I'll happily /obs and laugh as the scum runs away with the game. Well I can understand that. However what do you think of bunnies posts besides her gut feeling on you? What posts? Aside from a suspicious(ly silly) read on poofter and a CTA for a vigi on bat, she hasn't contributed much to the discussion so far. If anything, if the deadline was right now and I had to cast my vote, I think 27nb would be my choice. Stepping up and trying to publicly read poofter as town based on nothing but troll posts gives me a bad feeling that there may even be a bus straight to LYLO going on under our noses. If you think bunnies' activities make her lynchable right now you should probably explain the posts she has made... I don't like this post. A huge post about 3d12 but it doesn't actually say much. Why even take the time to go through this amount of posts, if you don't have a real conclusion or anything? that is not a huge post. That is a small post by my standards. To answer your question, my conclusion is that 3d12 is slightly green but I don't like how he thinks very much. If he wasn't a newbie what color would he be? probably still slightly green since there's nothing particularly wrong with his posts other than what I put in my post. I think its scummy that you're saying you're giving him newbie passes and still would lean slightly green on him (the same read) if he wasn't a newbie. Wouldn't your newbie passes inherently make his towniness increase? I think you might be throwing the newbie pass out there as an excuse for him like soft defending and then giving him a town read. Please explain why the rating doesn't change. That is not what I said. I said that I've been subconsciously giving him points for a newbie. I have been realizing my mistake before I post though and re-evaluate my opinions on him, remembering not to give him points for being a noob
Okay so you think that you were doing that before and even after you took away those townie points you still read him as slightly town? hmm
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
On September 03 2014 10:56 Tehpoofter wrote:
I disagree with some of your reads my main question to you is why does it seem like a bunch of your reads come from early in the thread. (I realize its relatively short thread but still) Like your read on kush comes from his 4th post. I feel like hes given a good amount since then so it concerns me thats where your scum read is coming from.
I don't feel like he's given a good amount. I felt the argument that batsnacked looks terrible based on a potential mission is a really weak vote and everything else is a defense of himself or others.
"So why is tehpoofter "top town" if he is making this horrible case on you, equating trolliness to scuminess?"
This post I suppose is reasonable, but that's about it. What are you referring to when you say a "good amount"?
On September 03 2014 10:56 Tehpoofter wrote:
Can you expand on the Templar read?
Is the response to Vivax sufficient? I don't really have anything new to bring to the table about him.
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EPT
