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United Kingdom10443 Posts
On August 26 2014 20:16 Xatalos wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2014 20:09 KelsierSC wrote:
Anyway Xat it appears, much to my displeasure, that we are not lynching you today.
But one of the main reasons I am not voting on VA is because Xat and Hapa are doing it.
I don't really give a shit about anything turtle does at this point. He is confirmed town but his reads or votes are meaningless.
Same with GB i just don't think he has looked at the game properly.
By the way before anyone jumps on this being inconsistent with my "assosicative playstyle" GM and turtle are confirmed town by roles but their play has not impressed me and they dont read or analyse the game the way I do, for this reason I do not put much stock in their votes or reads.
When people like Dam or WoS give a read I take it more seriously because I think they have played in a town way and they seem to read the game in a similar way to me.
"But WoS voted on VA why don't you?" as I mentioned I have my own specific reasons to not vote on VA. I think you're town based on your persistence / lack of care for your own appearance, but I'll just say that your "associative playstyle" sucks  It would have merit if you based it on confirmed associations (confirmed/dead players), but it seems like you do exactly the opposite (you only put value on reads of unconfirmed+alive players). That's not how you play the game. It just creates a huge loop that feeds your confirmation bias over and over.
did you just ignore everything I just wrote
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On August 26 2014 20:15 KelsierSC wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2014 20:11 Xatalos wrote:On August 26 2014 20:10 KelsierSC wrote:On August 26 2014 20:06 Xatalos wrote:On August 26 2014 20:02 KelsierSC wrote:On August 26 2014 19:59 Xatalos wrote:On August 26 2014 19:57 KelsierSC wrote:On August 26 2014 19:54 Xatalos wrote:On August 26 2014 19:50 KelsierSC wrote:On August 26 2014 19:44 Xatalos wrote:
[quote]
I'm amazed how I'm "100% mafia" when I've 1) lynched Mafia D1 2) played exactly like I always play as town 3) been the most active player in the game (like usually as town) 4) showed a lot of interest in who actually gets lynched D1 (which I never do as scum). 1) your vote doesn't clear you at all. Firstly you were basically saying "let's kill yamato, who is noe clearly town, then when it was down to wire it was either you or Robik so you switching means fuck all. 2.3.4) All the same point. I responded to this many times. Your town play is not hard to mimic as scum, Most of what you write is meangingless confused waffle. 1) Damdred seems to believe that I could have saved myself by keeping to push yamato. I'm not 100% sure about that but I would certainly take that opportunity as scum (considering I was already under heavy suspicion and Robik wasn't even really suspected until then). Hapa+jat had sworn to keep me alive after all. 2) We must agree to disagree then. If it was so easy to mimic, I would play like this as scum. But I don't. I personally think Dam is wrong about that, looking at the votes it was between you and yamato and then people switched off YAM and onto Robik. so you had to switch to not die. There was a high chance that Hapa+jat would switch back to yamato to keep me alive though. meh that wasn't how I viewed it, they both switched onto robik with only about 30 seconds left and then you switched after them. Like I said the vote doesn't clear you at all. You basically just voted the other lynch target that wasn't yourself to avoid death. The fact that this has been explained multiple times to you but you still think it clears you as town is baffling. I don't think it necessarily clears me, as I already explained that I don't fully agree with Damdred's view of the situation. I think it was too chaotic to know the outcome for sure. I'm just saying that as scum I would have taken the risk of keeping my vote on yamato (Robik was GF and not really suspected until then, so he'd have better chances of staying alive and winning at LYLO - especially if he got a green Cop check or something). At least it should slightly improve your image of me. Not that it hugely matters to me what you think at this point since you're extremely tunneled. He was suspected he had the majority of the votes when you switched It wasn't based on a case or anything though. Just a coinflip because it felt like both me and yamato could be town. You had no real credibility you think in the remaining 20 seconds you make a powerful post that takes them back off Robik and onto yam. be real. it was 4 robik 3 on you when you switched, stop trying to use the votes for credibility it just makes you scummier.
Whatever, I'm fine not talking about this topic. So you think Onegu is the best lynch today? Can you convince everyone of that? Because just voting him doesn't do that much.
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On August 26 2014 20:18 KelsierSC wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2014 20:16 Xatalos wrote:On August 26 2014 20:09 KelsierSC wrote:
Anyway Xat it appears, much to my displeasure, that we are not lynching you today.
But one of the main reasons I am not voting on VA is because Xat and Hapa are doing it.
I don't really give a shit about anything turtle does at this point. He is confirmed town but his reads or votes are meaningless.
Same with GB i just don't think he has looked at the game properly.
By the way before anyone jumps on this being inconsistent with my "assosicative playstyle" GM and turtle are confirmed town by roles but their play has not impressed me and they dont read or analyse the game the way I do, for this reason I do not put much stock in their votes or reads.
When people like Dam or WoS give a read I take it more seriously because I think they have played in a town way and they seem to read the game in a similar way to me.
"But WoS voted on VA why don't you?" as I mentioned I have my own specific reasons to not vote on VA. I think you're town based on your persistence / lack of care for your own appearance, but I'll just say that your "associative playstyle" sucks It would have merit if you based it on confirmed associations (confirmed/dead players), but it seems like you do exactly the opposite (you only put value on reads of unconfirmed+alive players). That's not how you play the game. It just creates a huge loop that feeds your confirmation bias over and over. did you just ignore everything I just wrote
What is there to be ignored? Should I comment on the (faulty) inner workings of your playstyle? Let's do that then:
1) If you think Hapa is the SK he has no reason not to vote for scum (especially since he can't know who is scum and who isn't). If you think I'm scum... do you really think I could prevent VA from being lynched? Yeah not really. So this reason for not voting VA is just bad.
2) You should at least put more value on GB's reads than those of someone still somewhat uncertain like Damdred. Mason > you think someone is town. Even if you don't agree about everything.
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Really it just feels like you're trying to bully everyone into agreeing with you by basing your reads on how similarly others read stuff. You realize that scum/SK are MUCH more likely to go along with you (because they don't want to be pressured) than town?
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On August 26 2014 13:12 WaveofShadow wrote:
Also interestingly enough, Damdred hasn't voted----the only thing we know from him is we shouldn't be lynching VA and he thinks the people everyone else has already brought up are scummy.
Mucho interestingo.
I feel like I've already had this conversation in the thread before. I don't have to throw my vote around or put my vote on someone super early. I have 48 hours or 14 hours presently to make an informed decision based on the same cases.
You asked me what i thought we should be doing and i said it? I'm not sure why you posted this. I've been suspicious of oneg since prebious day cycle and gave xata a hard time about calling the case hood. Gave hapa a hard time about things, so don't try to make it seem this is the first time I've brought suspicion up on people.
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I know for sure that I'd be sheeping KSC's views all game as scum. Such an easy ally to gain just by sheeping him.
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This makes me worry about WOS/Damdred a bit but they'll be another day's worry regardless...
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Btw KSC, how did you read WOS town again? It seems like he disagrees with you about almost everything (VA, blues claiming etc.).
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United Kingdom10443 Posts
On August 26 2014 20:18 Xatalos wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2014 20:15 KelsierSC wrote:On August 26 2014 20:11 Xatalos wrote:On August 26 2014 20:10 KelsierSC wrote:On August 26 2014 20:06 Xatalos wrote:On August 26 2014 20:02 KelsierSC wrote:On August 26 2014 19:59 Xatalos wrote:On August 26 2014 19:57 KelsierSC wrote:On August 26 2014 19:54 Xatalos wrote:On August 26 2014 19:50 KelsierSC wrote:
[quote]
1) your vote doesn't clear you at all. Firstly you were basically saying "let's kill yamato, who is noe clearly town, then when it was down to wire it was either you or Robik so you switching means fuck all.
2.3.4) All the same point. I responded to this many times. Your town play is not hard to mimic as scum, Most of what you write is meangingless confused waffle.
1) Damdred seems to believe that I could have saved myself by keeping to push yamato. I'm not 100% sure about that but I would certainly take that opportunity as scum (considering I was already under heavy suspicion and Robik wasn't even really suspected until then). Hapa+jat had sworn to keep me alive after all. 2) We must agree to disagree then. If it was so easy to mimic, I would play like this as scum. But I don't. I personally think Dam is wrong about that, looking at the votes it was between you and yamato and then people switched off YAM and onto Robik. so you had to switch to not die. There was a high chance that Hapa+jat would switch back to yamato to keep me alive though. meh that wasn't how I viewed it, they both switched onto robik with only about 30 seconds left and then you switched after them. Like I said the vote doesn't clear you at all. You basically just voted the other lynch target that wasn't yourself to avoid death. The fact that this has been explained multiple times to you but you still think it clears you as town is baffling. I don't think it necessarily clears me, as I already explained that I don't fully agree with Damdred's view of the situation. I think it was too chaotic to know the outcome for sure. I'm just saying that as scum I would have taken the risk of keeping my vote on yamato (Robik was GF and not really suspected until then, so he'd have better chances of staying alive and winning at LYLO - especially if he got a green Cop check or something). At least it should slightly improve your image of me. Not that it hugely matters to me what you think at this point since you're extremely tunneled. He was suspected he had the majority of the votes when you switched It wasn't based on a case or anything though. Just a coinflip because it felt like both me and yamato could be town. You had no real credibility you think in the remaining 20 seconds you make a powerful post that takes them back off Robik and onto yam. be real. it was 4 robik 3 on you when you switched, stop trying to use the votes for credibility it just makes you scummier. Whatever, I'm fine not talking about this topic. So you think Onegu is the best lynch today? Can you convince everyone of that? Because just voting him doesn't do that much.
Sure I will lay down my reasoning.
At this point the vote has to be between VA and Onegu.
I explained my reasons why the claim is genuine.
1)He was in a position where he did not have to fake claim.
2) He had easier outs if he was fake claiming
3) no CC
Then I look at the people pushing this vote. Hapa is a likely SK candidate, he wants to get rid of town at the moment. Xata is scummy as fuck and wants to ML town. GB and turtle I don't think they are reading the game very well at all.
I wonder how deep WoS analysed the claim, he said the claim was bad mainly because VA didn't use the cop role, if you look past that though WoS you can see that no mafia would claim this strangely.
All of that is in defence of the VA is the PR.
So then we come to Onegu. He showed up when people were scum reading rayn and threw some other dogshit onto the fire along with...wait it was Hapa and Xat again. obviously the reads were horse shit as rayn flipped VT. Then he disappears at the time he disappears I think the pressure was on rayn and then on yamato so he had no reason to interject as town was going to ML somehow.
So for Onegu he had a bad, BW read on town. . He disappeared when it appeared town was going down a bad path.
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On August 26 2014 20:31 Xatalos wrote:
This makes me worry about WOS/Damdred a bit but they'll be another day's worry regardless...
Talk to me about this xata. What are you thinking
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United Kingdom10443 Posts
On August 26 2014 20:28 Xatalos wrote:
I know for sure that I'd be sheeping KSC's views all game as scum. Such an easy ally to gain just by sheeping him.
don't insult me it takes more than sheeping a read for me to view you as town proof is in your own question.
as you state, why do I view WoS as town if he disagrees with me?
Read my filter I explain why WoS is town.
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On August 26 2014 20:32 KelsierSC wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2014 20:18 Xatalos wrote:On August 26 2014 20:15 KelsierSC wrote:On August 26 2014 20:11 Xatalos wrote:On August 26 2014 20:10 KelsierSC wrote:On August 26 2014 20:06 Xatalos wrote:On August 26 2014 20:02 KelsierSC wrote:On August 26 2014 19:59 Xatalos wrote:On August 26 2014 19:57 KelsierSC wrote:On August 26 2014 19:54 Xatalos wrote:
[quote]
1) Damdred seems to believe that I could have saved myself by keeping to push yamato. I'm not 100% sure about that but I would certainly take that opportunity as scum (considering I was already under heavy suspicion and Robik wasn't even really suspected until then). Hapa+jat had sworn to keep me alive after all.
2) We must agree to disagree then. If it was so easy to mimic, I would play like this as scum. But I don't. I personally think Dam is wrong about that, looking at the votes it was between you and yamato and then people switched off YAM and onto Robik. so you had to switch to not die. There was a high chance that Hapa+jat would switch back to yamato to keep me alive though. meh that wasn't how I viewed it, they both switched onto robik with only about 30 seconds left and then you switched after them. Like I said the vote doesn't clear you at all. You basically just voted the other lynch target that wasn't yourself to avoid death. The fact that this has been explained multiple times to you but you still think it clears you as town is baffling. I don't think it necessarily clears me, as I already explained that I don't fully agree with Damdred's view of the situation. I think it was too chaotic to know the outcome for sure. I'm just saying that as scum I would have taken the risk of keeping my vote on yamato (Robik was GF and not really suspected until then, so he'd have better chances of staying alive and winning at LYLO - especially if he got a green Cop check or something). At least it should slightly improve your image of me. Not that it hugely matters to me what you think at this point since you're extremely tunneled. He was suspected he had the majority of the votes when you switched It wasn't based on a case or anything though. Just a coinflip because it felt like both me and yamato could be town. You had no real credibility you think in the remaining 20 seconds you make a powerful post that takes them back off Robik and onto yam. be real. it was 4 robik 3 on you when you switched, stop trying to use the votes for credibility it just makes you scummier. Whatever, I'm fine not talking about this topic. So you think Onegu is the best lynch today? Can you convince everyone of that? Because just voting him doesn't do that much. Sure I will lay down my reasoning. At this point the vote has to be between VA and Onegu. I explained my reasons why the claim is genuine. 1)He was in a position where he did not have to fake claim. 2) He had easier outs if he was fake claiming 3) no CC Then I look at the people pushing this vote. Hapa is a likely SK candidate, he wants to get rid of town at the moment. Xata is scummy as fuck and wants to ML town. GB and turtle I don't think they are reading the game very well at all. I wonder how deep WoS analysed the claim, he said the claim was bad mainly because VA didn't use the cop role, if you look past that though WoS you can see that no mafia would claim this strangely. All of that is in defence of the VA is the PR. So then we come to Onegu. He showed up when people were scum reading rayn and threw some other dogshit onto the fire along with...wait it was Hapa and Xat again. obviously the reads were horse shit as rayn flipped VT. Then he disappears at the time he disappears I think the pressure was on rayn and then on yamato so he had no reason to interject as town was going to ML somehow. So for Onegu he had a bad, BW read on town. . He disappeared when it appeared town was going down a bad path.
I *kind* of like your reasoning but it certainly isn't without faults.
1) He didn't absolutely have to fakeclaim, but it was an "easy way out" since he hasn't done anything really pro-town previously either. Plus he might get some blues to claim while at it?
2) There's a good reason for claiming a roleblock though as scum. Less information for town (a Cop check would certainly be more helpful for town even if it was fake - for example if there's a real Cop, he could claim his check if it's different/same as VA's check and that would go a long way towards solving the game)
3) Again no reason to CC for blues really since VA is overwhelmingly getting lynched regardless
How could SK possibly know who are scum and who aren't? It's really weird reasoning that SK would be "trying to lynch town" right now. Probably he wouldn't really care either way.
I agree on the later part that Onegu doesn't look very good though.
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On August 26 2014 20:33 Damdred wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2014 20:31 Xatalos wrote:
This makes me worry about WOS/Damdred a bit but they'll be another day's worry regardless... Talk to me about this xata. What are you thinking
I just got the idea that scum/SK would likely try to get along with KSC to direct his tunnel elsewhere. Regardless it isn't anything really immediate to think about and nothing that strong to begin with.
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United Kingdom10443 Posts
Xata in my mind mafia fake claim just says he checked rayn. That was a perfectly reasonable person to check in the night,
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On August 26 2014 20:35 KelsierSC wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2014 20:28 Xatalos wrote:
I know for sure that I'd be sheeping KSC's views all game as scum. Such an easy ally to gain just by sheeping him. don't insult me it takes more than sheeping a read for me to view you as town proof is in your own question. as you state, why do I view WoS as town if he disagrees with me? Read my filter I explain why WoS is town.
Well at least your lynch decisions seem to be largely based on associative tells. That would be really delicious to manipulate as scum.
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On August 26 2014 20:44 KelsierSC wrote:
Xata in my mind mafia fake claim just says he checked rayn. That was a perfectly reasonable person to check in the night,
I guess that would make sense. Hm.
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On August 26 2014 20:46 Xatalos wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2014 20:44 KelsierSC wrote:
Xata in my mind mafia fake claim just says he checked rayn. That was a perfectly reasonable person to check in the night, I guess that would make sense. Hm.
It really is a bit weird not to claim that as scum.
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Well, there's still time until the lynch. I really hope Onegu comes back soon.
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##Unvote
I'm convinced VA's claim is legit.
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Why VA's claim is probably legit
1) Timing his claim was on early day one and sucked a lot of attention. Why mafia would do that in such timing?
2) Pressure he was under too little pressure to desperately fake claim. I don't think that anyone with too little pressure would fake claim like that.
3) Time Waste his intention of not wasting time with people reading him is very good for town (although it had an opposite effect LOL)
4) Godfather's role Godfather's role fits JOAT role completely in this game, and I bet nobody checked his role at the end of night 1
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EPT
