EPTFirst game back for a few months means I'ma be rusty and also my activity level from here on is likely not going to be anywhere near what it used to be.
/in
World Heavyweight Championship mafia III
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WaveofShadow
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First game back for a few months means I'ma be rusty and also my activity level from here on is likely not going to be anywhere near what it used to be. /in | ||
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On August 01 2014 11:41 ObiWanShinobi wrote: Wave you motherfucker you. ? | ||
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I love you but cell is so stressful  Play a game with me instead | ||
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I won't vote for you cuz I luyu The key thing to remember is always lynch holyflare. AMIRITE | ||
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If I'm playing with kush surely you two can put your animosity aside. | ||
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Won't be around for most of those, ladies. | ||
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Always, hun. | ||
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Town again. Such shock. Many wow. Policy lynch won't happen because it never does, but just like always I will be glad to attempt it, if for no other reason than to watch marv's reaction to it all. /towncircle ##vote: marvellosity I can honestly say that I don't care much if I am 'accepted' or not, especially because of how scum ran the last town circle I was in. I also don't know or remember much about Eden so the fact that you seem to be heading the circle doesn't exactly fill me with confidence, no offence. If y'all are worried about my alignment Artanis will help you out; as far as I remember he should be pretty good at letting you know what's up. If you want me in, great, but otherwise I'll do my own thing. Not sure what that is yet as it's my first game back in a little bit. Relevant stuff: HF are you town this game? I expect an honest answer from you. | ||
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On August 04 2014 08:49 Holyflare wrote: this is eerily similar opening to your mafia game though What's similar about it? | ||
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On August 04 2014 08:50 Holyflare wrote: i honestly don't care if it's infiltrated by mafia because i'll find out eventually and the only real towncircle is mine and it's invite only Lol this quote would make me feel so fucking good if I was scum and HF is town because I would totally just try to be besties with him all game and then stab him in the back and be like NOW YOU KNOW HOW IT FEELS | ||
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Unbiased opinions on Eden, gobbledygook and haru plz Any takers? | ||
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Oh well, eels for all. | ||
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On August 04 2014 08:57 Holyflare wrote: the fact you feel disheartened/seemingly disappointed about getting a 'town' pm which is exactly what you did in your game as mafia and you haven't done it in your town games that i checked just now in your profile (newest town ones) you rolled mafia didn't you ?Lol I'm always disappointed when I roll town, and you know that because of my statistics. I'm almost certain I talked to you about it extensively when we were both scum. And you obviously haven't checked enough of my town games if you think I don't act like that. It's not going to change; I simply am one of those crazy people who likes rolling scum more than town. | ||
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On August 04 2014 09:00 Artanis[Xp] wrote: HF confirmed for not reading my filter. LOL Artanis that made me laugh HF do you actually think that there is a good reason for anyone to call me confirmed town right now? And whether or not the answer is yes, why would scum artanis bother with that? You're better than that, my dear. What are you fishing for? | ||
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Bbl babes | ||
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The one thing I will NOT abide is lies, and HF, the fact that you would somehow insinuate that I like most people would much rather roll town, even after 3 months of not playing is laughable. I KNOW you know otherwise because we had a conversation early on in our last scumgame together as to how fucking excited I was to roll scum because I NEVER GET TO. Do you deny this? If so, fuck you. If not, how do you account for you line of questioning along those lines? It just pisses me off because you're starting a smear campaign against me with things you know are blatantly false. Go ahead and answer one way or the other, if you don't mind, but I'm not pushing the matter any further. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Back to relevant matters. Thanks ONE FUCKING PERSON for answering my questions about those who I haven't played with before. Doesn't help me a great deal, but meh. People I like: Eden, poofter, artanis (Only really confident of eden being town. Artanis probably is) People I'm mad at but are likely town: HF People I'm null on: Vivax, goobletybooble, cavalinho Scum: Haru---his defense of me is awkward and he immediately backtracks on it when given an out. Rubs me in completely the wrong direction GK - I dunno. His posts gimme the jibblies but he's all tryhardy which I think is good. Maybe null but I honestly don't knwo where to group him atm I'll be up for a while if people wanna do stuff, otherwise I'll be sporadic tomorrow. | ||
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+ Show Spoiler [Not really a spoiler] + Would not recommend staying post-credits though. pretty useless. | ||
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On August 04 2014 14:58 goodkarma wrote: @Wave: + Show Spoiler + On August 04 2014 13:37 WaveofShadow wrote: So here's the thing. I could go do the legwork myself and show all of the cases throughout my MASSIVE list of towngames (see profile page) where I have complained about rolling town, but apparently HF is going to restrict his read to the latest few. Fine, I suppose, but I could honestly give two shits less about my own meta in the end, since I'd say about 80% of the time in games I have played I am accused of being scum from my opening posts, no matter what they say. I've been accused for being too 'tryhard,' and I've been accused for being too jovial when everyone else has stopped as such. Early accusations, meh. The one thing I will NOT abide is lies, and HF, the fact that you would somehow insinuate that I like most people would much rather roll town, even after 3 months of not playing is laughable. I KNOW you know otherwise because we had a conversation early on in our last scumgame together as to how fucking excited I was to roll scum because I NEVER GET TO. Do you deny this? If so, fuck you. If not, how do you account for you line of questioning along those lines? It just pisses me off because you're starting a smear campaign against me with things you know are blatantly false. Go ahead and answer one way or the other, if you don't mind, but I'm not pushing the matter any further. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Back to relevant matters. Thanks ONE FUCKING PERSON for answering my questions about those who I haven't played with before. Doesn't help me a great deal, but meh. People I like: Eden, poofter, artanis (Only really confident of eden being town. Artanis probably is) People I'm mad at but are likely town: HF People I'm null on: Vivax, goobletybooble, cavalinho Scum: Haru---his defense of me is awkward and he immediately backtracks on it when given an out. Rubs me in completely the wrong direction GK - I dunno. His posts gimme the jibblies but he's all tryhardy which I think is good. Maybe null but I honestly don't knwo where to group him atm I'll be up for a while if people wanna do stuff, otherwise I'll be sporadic tomorrow. Your scumread and dunno read have been pretty active in thread. Kinda curious you haven't had anything to say to them. @HaruRH: You claim you have reads formed mid-day 1. I'm holding you to that tomorrow. Hiiiiii kush  I don't have anything specific to ask either of you right now, and your conversation has done nothing to add to my current read. | ||
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On August 04 2014 15:31 Eden1892 wrote: sigh gonna make me look huh Haru for... a weird defense of you, do I have that right? Some q's on that: - Are you not interested in exploring that weird defense further? - What's weird about his defense of you exactly? - What's scum-motivated about his defense of you exactly? I'm pretty sure all of that is explained in a basic form in the same post you just looked at. Tsk tsk Eden. I am disappoint. | ||
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Easy towncred when called out for defending everyone else's apparent scumread so he can say 'lulz why would I hard defend someone everyone else is attacking as scum' but more damning is the grabbing the quick out as soon as he could when attention trundle to him. It's pretty basic scared scumplay IMO, guy made a play and felt like it might have backfired/wants to play safe and get on everyone's good site now. See conversation with GK for example. Though if they were both scum that might be interesting too. | ||
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I fucking hate doing this on ipad | ||
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On August 04 2014 15:38 justanothertownie wrote: Ok, first and foremost if marv doesn't show up with something relevant and lurks - we kill him. I think we can all agree on that one. So far I think Eden is probably town because he seems very comfortable and was one of the first to actually scumhunt (together with HF). I think I also somewhat like goodkarma because his play so far has been really different than in showdown. I don't like this post. How do you know it is not mafiaish? I am not saying Haru is scum but why do you feel the need to defend him like that this early? Also, Obi with a way less impressing start than in an unnamed game. Could say the same of you. I don't get the feeling vivax was defending him, rather simply expressing his pov. | ||
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Hai guys Phoneposting for a bit Some things to note I forget who but somebody actually thinks kush could be scum atm lol Marv said something about me that was spot on as usual but I forget what it was...I think it was something in relation to HF HF and I I think are having a misunderstanding of sorts, but him dropping it the way he did makes me further lean town on him despite my already saying I didn't want to shit up the thread with it...something in the phrasing Can't remember what else struck me while I tried to read throughout the day Can probs post a little but not we ll until later | ||
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It really doesn't mseem that complicated to me, and I think people we're saying my posts about him were bad? Maybe Eden? Gotta look back and refute dat shit when I get the chance | ||
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##unvote: marv Pile of stupidity made me laugh and policy obvs not happening I don't thin Artanis is happening either though marv | ||
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Is this why people do nt like him | ||
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On August 05 2014 05:57 justanothertownie wrote: Are you fully caught up? You seem confused. Did your read on Haru change/evolve somehow? I'm caught up but it was bits and pieces throughout the day First opportunity I've had to. Post I want to go back and reread haru Vivax in my experience what I described about haru comes from a scum perspective, at least one who is a little paranoid early in the game for no reason really. The issue is I think I made a read based on different things from you vivax, not his conversation later on I'm going to reread haru | ||
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Scum often don't need help in terms of figuring out who to shoot. Vivax when I don't have to phonepost ill get to it I promise | ||
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What specifically would you likw me to respoind to | ||
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Probably a little over an hour Don't go to sleep hun | ||
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On August 05 2014 08:17 Vivax wrote: Dude stop posting promises please, it looks terrible. A I don't post this at every occasion but it's a recurring thing in your filter imho. Only with regards to this Plz son don't tell me how to play I'll apologize for my afk ness if i wasn't to | ||
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On August 05 2014 08:15 HaruRH wrote: Dude wtf you're still twisting my words I already said posting with quotes is paramount to suicide on mobile. Also, I did not spend 25 minutes finding those stuff. I spent less than 3, but the effort of trying to copy and paste the quote using mobile is like trying to swallow a sword Continue riding in the haru tunnel. Many had done so and collapsed in it. Known victims: rainbows, glowingbear This post looks towny btw Reminds me of legit pissed wave but then again I am turrible with newbie comparisons or at least people new to me THE HARU READ IS COMING #yolopromises | ||
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On August 05 2014 08:57 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Wave, you mentioned you thought I was townie in the start. You haven't really mentioned that since other than telling Marv that you don't think I'm happening today. What's your read on me and why? Alright I'm back for a while. Is there a reason I should have mentioned you in between? I seem to remember your scumplay being tantamount to rolling over and dying for no good reason (though why I think this I'll admit I don't rightly know and am too lazy to go check right now). Even were this not the case, your play simply doesn't seem scummy to me--- I just don't see a scum Artanis calling me confirmed town all game and spouting nothing but carefree oneliners in the face of making other people suspicious. Or maybe you simply bought me with your outright defenses. Does this mean I'm not confirmed town any more, arty? + Show Spoiler + Sorry, but Eden's ascii fist made me lol | ||
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On August 05 2014 10:25 Vivax wrote: WoS still have to see you act up on that sort of FoS you placed on GK early. How do you read him currently. Writing up on haru atm Give me a bit plz | ||
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HaruRH: On August 04 2014 09:26 HaruRH wrote: Anyway, I am null on this read on wos. His meta read could probably be thrown away after him not playing for months - I would certainly change a lot in 3 months. However, that 'stiffness' in his long ass posts can definitely be seen. So its a +1 -1=0. First relevant post is here. It makes sense superficially, though I absolutely hate that 'stiffness' horseshit, which I suppose I can get into with Eden or whoever still believes that later. There's not much here in the end which is fine, but it becomes a problem below: On August 04 2014 09:52 HaruRH wrote: Why am I trying to defend this wos guy when I don't even remember where I saw him? Yea, you might be right. I certainly won't be happy rolling scum on my first game after 3 months. This is where I first drew issue with him in the first place. The soft defense he used above is based on my meta changing after 3 months (and note that it is a SOFT defense as he does not call me town or stand up for me in any way) but here he treats it as if it is more than that. In the exact same first post he gives me both a '+1' and '-1' and yet his reaction is as if he has been called out for a hard defense. Then, IMMEDIATELY he is sure to discount his own '+1 defense' by agreeing that I shouldn't be happy about rolling scum (which I've already shown to be untrue, though this is irrelevant). Now the first thing that pops into my head is mafia with a guilty conscience, and the reasoning should be obvious (if it isn't, it's in my filter). Vivax believes that it is simply Haru rethinking his argument out loud, btu I disagree and this is why: On August 04 2014 13:01 HaruRH wrote: Idk, if I was scum I would definitely sit back and think of how to play this game. So I would wanna check how these people who never posted yet on how they open up. Too stiff = skummer. On August 04 2014 13:52 HaruRH wrote: You still sound angsty. What? I said, I'm waiting to see if the lurkers are posting stiffly so that I can group them up with wave. No. 1 scum in 3 people = all others are town? How did you even come to this conclusion? I still don't have a prime suspect. You probably have not played with me before but I don't do reads d1 (at least not the first half) until everyone turns up and I get to inspect and see how they are linked. Call it bad or w/e, this is how I roll. Lack of experience isn't an excuse, but expectations will be my worry. I am expecting 1 out of 3 of these boogers to be skum and the remaining few skums to be in the rest. If those who post 'stiffly' are scum and he's waiting to group them up with me, what does that mean about what he thinks of me? When exactly did he go from null to scummy on me? I just don't see the towny though process, hell ANY thought process at all, it looks more like 'Oh, I was given an out to join the anti-Wave bandwagon, so here I go.' It honestly feels like he simply name-dropped me above to make himself look better. I don't believe that 'waiting for lurkers to post' is a valid towny technique here either, it reads much more like an excuse and an easy way to avoid content. On August 04 2014 23:36 HaruRH wrote: Problem is, what constitutes looking really townie? What heuristics do you use to judge? For example, the way you judge town is probably going to be different from pooft, who plays tons of video mafia, and different from me, who plays tons of game mafia (sc2/wc3). Also, what is really townie looking? To artanis, wos is his really townie guy despite many objections and scumreads on wos. Explain to me, marv. This looks like a scummer who has gained confidence by people getting off his ass and shifted attention over to a bandwagon that isn't him. Note the 'wos' namedropping again. Now his return: I was going to agree with Obiwan on the odd use of self-meta but I've done it myself before and as I mentioned earlier in my filter his reasoning feels like frustrated towny more so than caught scum so I'm in more of a conundrum here. The problem with it is I'm known to be wrong with that kind of read so I have to take it with a grain of salt. The confidence is still there which is fine, hell even a towny who gets negative attention on himself dropped will gain confidence, but his list of scummers also rubs me the wrong way. Aside from myself being up there, the other two are people who attacked him previously (discounting HF who imo looks towny enough that it might be dangerous for a lower-confidence scummer to attack by way of OMGUS)...it realy doesn't seem as though any thought besides that was put in. Ultimately I am still scummy on Haru because in rereading I have gone through and I don't see the towny perspective being stronger than a scum-aligned one for his actions. Vivax you're welcome to show me the error of my ways here if you still think I'm not considering important things here. ##Vote: HaruRH | ||
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On August 05 2014 10:25 Vivax wrote: WoS still have to see you act up on that sort of FoS you placed on GK early. How do you read him currently. I'm not sure how calling him null was a FoS, I just said some of his posting made me feel all wonky about him. I think I'm used to playing games with him when he's always under the gun so to see him posting in a different way now (though still spr srs) gives me pause. Ultimately he recently liked the same thing I did in regards to Haru's reaction to HF (though we've obviously come to different conclusions about it) though maybe GK you can go into a little more detail as to what about Haru's reaction you liked? I'd give GK slightly towny side of null for now---if there were a good way to pressure GK (that I wouldn't feel guilty about) to make him post similar to what I'm used to in many games I'd do it. | ||
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On August 04 2014 15:57 Eden1892 wrote: no, I knew it was Haru; I phrased it like I didn't because I find people tend to be more eager to oblige me that way if they really believe someone is scum, since they want to convince me of their read and... what? he's not hard defending you. he said that your earlier stiff play could be the result of not playing for a while and that he reads you null for stiff play. furthermore this stance has been consistent, so how did he ever "grab an out"? my main problem right now is that this read seems really superficial to me. you have to assume haru is mafia for this to make sense, and it writes off the very reasonable alternative that he's town and (imo) the better explanation for his behavior. this wouldn't be a problem, as many players good and bad struggle with giving non-superficial reads sometimes, especially early in the game. but then you turn right around with this: which imo was a good job reading into vivax past the most obvious conclusion. so you're clearly capable of reading into a post and recognizing a superior but non-obvious conclusion... yet you're not doing this with haru? and then at the end there's this throwaway comment about haru and goodkarma being scum. do you intend to follow up on this at all? what makes you think they might both be scum and if it's so interesting why just leave it hanging? Not sure why I didn't respond to this in the first place to be honest...maybe I went to bed? Ultimately it seems your main problem with me is the same as Vivax, that I don't consider towny perspectives in my read of Haru? (I don't see how that's true considering you've been spouting all game about how 'manufactured' my posts are, which again is horseshit) It could be possible that I didn't give Haru a fair shot at considering both perspectives but I don't see at all how you can say that the towny perspective is the more likely explanation for his behaviour at all. Why does the non-obvious conclusion have to be the superior one necessarily? There are things in haru's play that jump out and shout 'SCUM' in my face, and some other ones that don't, but ultimately the scummy ones win out, hence my scumread. That's how the game of mafia is played. | ||
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Poofter why is your play so shit this game? | ||
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On August 05 2014 11:24 goodkarma wrote: Feel free to come at me as hard as you'd like. I won't ragequit I promise. Well the point being by saying this out loud and not having anything particularly useful to pressure you on, pressuring to get you to post in a way I'm more familiar with won't work. | ||
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On August 05 2014 11:37 goodkarma wrote: I don't post like I used to. I found people got ragey and mislynch-happy when I posted large paragraphs of logic. Besides, I haven't really seen you pressure your scumread(s) all that much, the people you should be pressuring. I haven't been around all that much. Also as far as scumreadS go, I only have the one right now, and I recently posted about him. Care to comment as it seems you and I have differing opinions? | ||
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As for people voting him right now, is there any particular reason, or just 'cause he's being shit? | ||
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On August 05 2014 11:51 Tehpoofter wrote: I didn't I won't get lynched so you can just hang out and be wrong See, the thing is I have way more faith that HF can get his target lynched than some other people here Poofter. Your BMK reads were leans, fine. What were they based on? Do you have any other reads? Is marv the lynch for today? Let's get something concrete plz HF can you comment re: Haru? For something people have been waiting for from me for so long, I'm kind of surprised that I have gotten absolutely nothing (though I suppose I shouldn't be---it's par for the course for me to put effort into something and have people ignore it). | ||
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On August 05 2014 11:55 Holyflare wrote: It's a 100% legitimate heuristic that people that do shitty catch up post by post after saying they are around and reading/catching up hours before are mafia Is this really what you're going on? I have done this multiple times as town. Prome has done it as town. I can't give more examples because I can't remember past games anymore without searching. | ||
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On August 05 2014 12:01 goodkarma wrote: You seem to have some grasp of why people read him as towny. The real question is if you think his response to the HF tunnel is fake or not. If fake then scum. If not he's town. My personal thoughts on Haru should be pretty clear from my filter. GK reads aren't (or shouldn't be) ever as simple as that. My inclination is to believe the response more likely comes from town, but then everything else Haru has said or done that looks scummy goes ignored. If cases could so easily be boiled down to one simple action then you could just as easily say that about everyone: "if so-and-so is lying about this they're scum, if not they're town." You don't know the truth so you have to sum up and take into account all that they have done and decide what is important and what isn't. Do you believe so strongly that what Haru said is not faked that you can ignore everything else? And HF what I find Haru scummy for is different from what you find him scummy for, isn't it? Do you find it adds to or detracts from your tunnel? (And nothing Haru said or did detunneled you?) | ||
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On August 05 2014 12:05 Holyflare wrote: Yes and when you do it as town you comment on useful stuff and draw conclusions from those posts and do it immediately when you are reading. Poofter waited 3 hours to then make his first comment on marv voting and I know from before when he was around that people say to read marv by seeing if he lynched mafia or not. He even references the game (order) where marv lynched mafia and it was said in that game. So reallt ghis 3 hours wait into commenting on something useless is what makes him mafia Alright this makes more sense. Continuing on though, based on things happening earlier in this game, wouldn't a scummer be more likely to prepare something and try to look useful when coming back rather than posting shit? What does Poofter have to gain as scum by doing what he is doing? Or do you believe Poofter is truly just playing shit scum in which case I don't really have anything more to say  | ||
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On August 05 2014 12:16 Tehpoofter wrote: I admitted I haven't read the thread the whole way through I think marv is like impossible to read i just end up praying hes townie so when he doesn something different I'm going to point it out. I didn't even say it was scummy just that it was odd those are too very different things. Except you called him scum at the beginning of the game so I would think it only safe to assume you were simply elaborating on your earlier read. Backtracking? | ||
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On August 05 2014 12:20 Holyflare wrote: Shitty scum and he lurks all the time as mafia just to come back with no content. Also your haru thing is odd because you spent all that time on haru but then really never had a real conclusion at the end of it. It does look scummy that he's null on you but then wants to group you with other ppl thus saying you're scummy out of the blue and it's scummy that he comes back to attack me saying that I'm twisting his words and then just fucks off after doing nothing again. Yes his outburst could be towny but I've seen so many scum be angry it's not really anything to go by for me. Also GK why did you sheep me onto poofter if i provided no argument whatsoever? Dafuq How did I provide no conclusion? it's at the end of my post where I say Ultimately I am still scummy on Haru because in rereading I have gone through and I don't see the towny perspective being stronger than a scum-aligned one for his actions. and then vote for him? And GK your second point is kind of shitty imo. It's a meta example of one. | ||
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On August 05 2014 12:29 Holyflare wrote: I mean that's not a real conclusion. It makes me sad because it looks so mafiaishy it just looks so overly worded for you to say you're scum reading someoneYou say in rereading and that you've gone through all in one sentence which probably means you were rewriting it so that it looked normal I don't even understand that second sentence but I can honestly say I have no fucking clue why you think that's scummy. | ||
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On August 05 2014 12:35 Holyflare wrote: You say the same thing in the same sentence. The in reading i have gone through. It just looks really weird like you rewrote the sentence abd then it screwed up and you didn't reread it. Ignoring that, you over justify why you scum read him (weighing up town reasons on reread) instead of just saying he's probably scum First of all, it's not the same thing at all, if you want to argue semantics (which is so silly I can't even believe I'm entertaining it). Reading is simply the act of reading itself while going through implies comprehension. As far as over justification I simply don't agree. It was a conclusion. If I had put TL;DR would that have been better? I also don't understand this obsession with 'constructed' posting being scummy, which I wanted to get across to Eden before as well.Of course posts can be constructed as either alignment, it's a fucking forum where you get to think about what you write before you do it. It's not always going to be the case as sometimes people simply post without bothering to think or edit but it depends on what you're trying to do or say. If I'm writing a big, constructed reads post or case, then I'm going to make sure it looks and sounds good to me. Do you not think I went over my massive reads posts in Shadow Game and edited? | ||
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On August 05 2014 12:55 Holyflare wrote: There's 2 types of constructed. One to make sure all typos and grammar are correct and one that is edited repeatedly because in the persons mind they wouldn't say something like that as town. In the latter case the sentence structure often comes out as weird from all the editing they've done. You've explained what you meant with it now though but it's still overly worded abd makes it look like you were catering your post to people that criticised you for only scum reading haru from one perspective. It's too i want to fit inny. I do both kinds of editing with every long form post like that I make. I dunno I really don't see this argument going anywhere, it seems silly to me. If you want to push it and me further then go ahead and we can turn it into something, but right now I just don't see a point. As far as Poofter goes I want to see how others react to my case tomorrow, though I'll only be able to phonepost sporadically. I will sheep onto Poofter if it becomes necessary if haru doesn't pick up steam as I don't really have any other scumreads right now. | ||
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Also it really sucks to only be around when very few people are. I'm not sold on GD despite Vivax's ravings; aside from Haru (my thoughts have absolutely not changed---why, by the way was my case NEVER brought up throughout the ENTIRE deliberation as to whether or not people should vote him?) I think Cav is likely 2nd scum. HF looks worse, marv is marv, kush still sueprtown and probably Eden is too? though for a guy who attempted to lead town throughout much of D1 he kinda petered off. Maybe stronger voices made it hard? | ||
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No fucking clue what to think of him at this point---reminds me of a rock wall where you can throw whatever you want at him and get no useful reaction. | ||
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On August 06 2014 11:32 Eden1892 wrote: I petered off cause I couldn't figure out what I wanted to do. Eventually settled on Haru and felt good about it, needed to sleep, woke up and durp everywhere. I actually think marv looks significantly worse than HF out of those two although I'm not sold on either. I want Cav tomorrow though, I feel pretty good about that case. Did not like his EOD play at all, looked like scum who got caught up in the Chinese fire drill and was having trouble calculating whether switching was a good play. That plus his pointed refusal to be involved in the direction of the thread = good scum case My issue with the 'having trouble calculating' part, is would cav let us know about all the trouble he was having out loud? Also why does marv look worse? I know marv way better than you do I imagine, and I'm interested in what you got out of his play. | ||
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On August 06 2014 11:48 goodkarma wrote: Vivax flip is super-frustrating. Regroup and do better tomorrow. Except if it wasn't Vivax, it would have been Haru, who you currently townread I believe? What would you have done? | ||
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On August 06 2014 11:58 goodkarma wrote: It's pretty obvious I wouldn't be voting my townread, if that's what you're asking... What exactly are you asking? Never mind I misread and didn't pay attention to who you voted for. I thought you were super frustrated at the Vivax switch. | ||
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On August 06 2014 11:51 Eden1892 wrote: eh I guess it depends on Haru's flip really so I'm not putting much stock into it, but on balance I think scum are much more likely to follow a move at EOD rather than start one. path of least resistance and all and I know that can be subverted, hence the "on balance" aspect re: whether Cav would let us know, I feel like he would yeah. just putting myself in my scum slippers for a minute, if I'm in the thread at EOD and there's a serious push to lynch someone I know will flip town, I'm certainly not gonna flip willy-nilly, I'm gonna make it look like I'm struggling to figure it out tbh I'm more interested in two things besides him moving to Vivax: 1) the pointed refusal to take any responsibility for where the thread is going by pushing for a particular lynch with anything resembling a credible case 2) the fact that it took for-fucking-ever for him to even put a vote down and show people where he stood before the end Eh, I think scum is more likely not to make a big deal and go with the flow because making a big deal draws attention. Nobody is going to go back and say 'well look at how hesitant he was to vote for a townie, surely he couldn't be scum.' I think #2 is more incriminating than #1. There are plenty of people who have just gone with thread sentiment or never bothered to push cases in the game thus far. | ||
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On August 06 2014 12:07 Eden1892 wrote: they wouldn't say that, but you don't think the opposite of that is something people would say? "look at how quickly he parked a vote on a townie, that's pretty sketchy" especially after not voting all day and yeah I know that's why this game is so hard rofl. but that doesn't mean I can't or shouldn't start lynching people out of that group either Honestly, no. In my experience especially in regards to shenannies like this, a lot of the time people don't think twice because there's something forceful about that last-minute vote-switch pull and townies will almost always get dragged into it. When I read that marv was switching his vote to Vivax I immediately knew that he was going to be lynched. It's how these things tend to go. I don't know if that's a marv thing specifically or not, but I do feel like marv is often involved. I should go back and look at Shadow Game. I don't think it was Marv who started the D1 shenannies there though but he did go along with them. Maybe that's a bad example. bleh. | ||
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On August 06 2014 12:00 WaveofShadow wrote: Never mind I misread and didn't pay attention to who you voted for. I thought you were super frustrated at the Vivax switch. In any case, who is next for you then, GK? This is all the time I've got to talk until tomorrow evening so let's try and have a discussion? | ||
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On August 06 2014 06:00 ObiWanShinobi wrote: Yeah I don't really want to waste time doing that right now. I'll do it after lynch. I need a minute to think. Cav, what was this in reference to? Also, you do a lot of complaining around lynch time. On August 06 2014 06:13 ObiWanShinobi wrote: At this point it's borderline impossible for Vivax to even be lynched, so you should probably decide between gd and haru instead. I'm kind of leaning towards gd at this point but I'm not sure. On August 06 2014 06:04 ObiWanShinobi wrote: I remember Haru had me as scum for similar reasons in Titanic. Like I know his day 1 shit is incredibly asinine sometimes and it's the only thing stopping me from hammering him right now. On August 06 2014 07:00 ObiWanShinobi wrote: Well my vote doesn't matter anymore, and I don't even feel like this is a great lynch. On August 06 2014 07:15 ObiWanShinobi wrote: As am I. I just looked back over GD's filter and I'm back to not remembering why I scumread him. I think today is just a miss in general. You know who complains about lynch targets without ever offering a proper opinion or direction? | ||
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I can't decide if what you're saying is truthful or you took a gamble on Vivax not happening and lost. Actually wait a minute as scum you win with that either way, it's not really much of a gamble at all, is it? Looking over your filter Cav I actually like some of what you had going on in little bits in between but the deadline stuff just doesn't look great, nor do your refusals to interact with people at random intervals. Eden you never answered me as to why you think marv looks worse. | ||
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On August 06 2014 13:28 ObiWanShinobi wrote: I don't understand the Vivax gamble thing at all. He was town, so what is there to gamble? I think this needs to be explained to me more. There are still two lynch targets who are complete question marks that we didn't go after because we didn't like the way someone was acting. Also, I don't really care what Eden thinks of me because his scumread is basically a storyline that makes no sense when you look at my filter. Too bad it's not even alignment indicative because I've seen him do it as town. -.-; I'm super paranoid of Marv and Holyflare as well, though. Both of them had flat-out awful reasons for going after Vivax. Calling it a gamble really doesn't make sense at all, it's much simpler than that. I think I have been overthinking it and am coming around to what Eden was saying a little more. Very easy for scum in your position to protest the Vivax lynch or at the very least say you don't want to look into him because if he DOES get lynched then in theory you look good for being in the 'right,' and you don't have to do any looking into him at all. If he doesn't get lynched the outcome is slightly worse (maybe therein is the gamble...I suppose it would be more like you 'won' the gamble instead) but you gain an ally in Vivax maybe? Maybe you planned on how it turned out? I dunno...I gotta leave this alone for a while and come back to it to see what makes the most sense. I think were I in that position as scum I would have taken a stance earlier and let the chips fall where they may. Anyway as for the rest: 'We' was marv. I'm almost certain nobody else lynched Vivax because attitude. You think marv or HF could be scum hard-pushing Vivax in that way? This interests me. I actually think it is possible one of them *COULD be but it's still pretty doubtful imo. | ||
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On August 06 2014 13:33 ObiWanShinobi wrote: Wave, what's your read on me right now? Still scummy but there's gutfeels in it now interfering and it's not entirely objective? In any case I'd still see Haru swing before you. I should go back and look at marv's attacks on haru. Those looked pretty ironclad at the time and I'm kind of wondering why he backed off. | ||
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On August 06 2014 13:44 ObiWanShinobi wrote: Marv is basically 'we' and should be considered 'we' because everyone followed him because fuck it why not. Also, if you honestly believe I orchestrated a mass voteswitch to Vivax at the last second, despite the fact that I was telling everyone not to, then lol. I seriously wish I was capable of that as mafia. What? Where did I say you orchestrated the switch? | ||
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And here: I'm super paranoid of Marv and Holyflare as well, though. Both of them had flat-out awful reasons for going after Vivax. And my response: You think marv or HF could be scum hard-pushing Vivax in that way? This interests me. I actually think it is possible one of them *COULD be but it's still pretty doubtful imo. I want you to flesh this out. | ||
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On August 06 2014 14:54 Eden1892 wrote: OK so I think the Vivax lynch was dumb but town-driven. Here's why. 1. Either we had a mafia wagon out of Haru or gobble on d1, or we didn't. 2. If we had a mafia wagon on d1, that strongly implies to me, from past experience, that the mafia have very weak thread presence. It's not difficult at all to deflect a lynch onto a townie on the first day, before anyone has flipped. 3. If the mafia have a very weak thread presence, then it is significantly unlikely that the Vivax wagon, which was generated very rapidly and effectively on very short notice, is mafia-driven, because if the mafia had the thread presence to generate that wagon that quickly, they would never have had a teammate up for a lynch in the first place. 4. If the Vivax wagon is not mafia-driven, then it is town-driven. 5. If we didn't have a mafia wagon on d1, that strongly implies to me, from past experience and analysis of incentives, that the mafia wouldn't have generated a third wagon. Generating a wagon is a risky venture for mafia because they have to fabricate a case and be public about pushing it, which puts them in the spotlight and forces them to work hard to look townie. Furthermore if they already have two town wagons set up, they're in an ideal spot. Not only do they not stand to gain anything from generating another wagon, they might accidentally cause a shakeup in some of the townies' thought processes with the sudden movement that causes the mafia to lose control of the situation. Mafia very strongly favor a static, not dynamic, game state. 6. If the mafia wouldn't have generated a third wagon (the Vivax wagon), then the Vivax wagon must be town-driven. 7. Regardless of whether or not the Haru and/or gobble wagons are town or mafia, the Vivax wagon is town-driven. 8. Therefore, the Vivax wagon is town-driven. We need to be looking at people who were hesitant to jump on the Vivax wagon or change anything up. People who jumped on the wagon late in the turn, or people who were around during the last hour or so but didn't move their vote or acknowledge the shift much, are more likely to be mafia than those who got on the Vivax wagon early. I really like this post. More of this plz, because I agree. On August 06 2014 14:37 ObiWanShinobi wrote: You talked about it a bit, but Wave starting being Wave at me. Honestly, I'm still getting the disjointedness in his posting. He still feels totally calculated and robotic in his posting. It feels like his scumread on me is forced because I thought I gave him reasonable answers, so I don't know where that's coming from. And then his read winds up being 100% wishy-washy. I feel really paranoid this game. I really hate this post. 'Wishy-washy' again, as if that's supposed to mean something, and I have no idea what 'wave being wave' means, coming from you, since you have no idea what I'm like. | ||
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On August 06 2014 15:45 ObiWanShinobi wrote: Your argument is that the wagon was easy, so it has to be town-driven because there's no mafia motivation behind an easy third counterwagon onto a more experienced player. There couldn't be mafia interference because there's no case on Vivax, I mean...Really? What more could you ask for when everyone thinks that someone practically lynched themselves? Even if both GD and Haru are town, there's plenty of motivation to take out a player that's really strong in the later stages of the game, because both of these players will end up being up for lynch later, if not immediately. It's like you refuse to acknowledge that anyone on the Vivax wagon could be mafia. By your analysis, you're admitting that there isn't a single player on the Vivax lynch that could be mafia. There's plenty of mafia motivation behind the Vivax lynch it's crazy that you can't see it. It actually kinda ticks me off, but you always do that so what do I know. Stop talking out your ass, being a jerk and put up. You have a lot of great reasons as to why there is mafia motivation behind a Vivax lynch, but I have yet to see you talk about which mafia orchestrated the lynch in that case, aside from some offhanded comments about HF. If there is such a great deal of mafia pulling strings in the Vivax lynch, then who was it and how did they pull it off? Think about this and then ask yourself what is more likely. Like...this quote On August 06 2014 15:03 ObiWanShinobi wrote: There was no case on Vivax. We killed him because omfg he was mean to us and fuck him anyway lolol. Acting like a bad wagon can't be mafia driven is foolishness. There was tons of mafia motivation to turn the lynch onto Vivax at the last second. We now have two question marks in Haru and GD, and even if we kill both of them, it'll be hard to dictate exactly what the mafia was doing during day 1. It will take us days to decipher all of the information generated during the lynch because of the complexities, so saying it was town-motivated because it was easy is nonsense. It's actually even more likely that the Vivax wagon was mafia driven because of the immense amount of confusion it generated in its wake. You're grossly underestimating how badly this nonsensical third counterwagon hurts the town. is all well and good, but it does us NO good at all to simply shoot down Eden's thought processes without actually coming up with real scenarios with real names like he did. | ||
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On August 06 2014 15:55 ObiWanShinobi wrote: If a bunch of people you think are scum are on the Vivax wagon, then it is not a town-driven wagon. Honestly, I'm going to take a break from posting for a while because both of you are frustrating me. I disagree with that wholeheartedly. It was a marv-driven wagon. He drove people to vote for Vivax, simple as that. It is very difficult for town OR scum to resist the marv-pull. While I believe there were absolutely people of both alignments on the wagon, if you want to speak purely in majority terms, simply the fact that 8 people voted for Vivax and that there are only 3 scum means it IS a town-driven wagon. | ||
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Trying to decide if NK is frame attempt on people kush has found scummy (HF, onegu, Gd) but I don't think I've ever actually seen mafia attempt to frame anyone so I think I'm forced to discount it. Marv doesn't sheep lightly so I'm willing to bet he has faith in kush's reads for a reason. I've re-evaluated some reads as I caught up. Just a sec | ||
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Haru - I haven't really changed my mind on him because he hasn't really done anything much different since I posted my case on him I don't think. I still don't know why everything seems to hinge on that ridiculous +1/-1 discussion because my case certainly dwell on it, and yet again people don't seem to care about and yet still want to lynch him. I admit I could be wrong here since there are a few influential people who seemed to townread him but I'm not quite following the reasons for their townreads. Need to see way more from him. Obi---I have to look back at whatever game it was where HF bussed suki from the start and we lost because that is the only game I seem to remember cav being in with me. Supposedly there were others because he feels like he knows how i play but whatever. The belligerence is easy to fake but I think it might be town. HF - Quite possibly scum. Had him as town based on most of his D1 but lately the stuff people have been on him about rings true, but I don't think in quite the same way. I've seen scum HF play this angrily---and people are on him about defending himself but that's only part of it imo. He went from pushing stuff on me and Haru (and Vivax I think) in a somewhat reasonable way to being completely abrasive and pushy about it while at the SAME TIME being super defensive whenever somebody even whispers his name. It was mentioned earlier (by marv I think) that it's often very difficult to let attacks on you go; I'm often guilty of this myself so I don't think HF is scum for that alone. It's not scum anger at being attacked/caught, it's simply good and convincing scumplay to fuel emotion from the defenses into the thread and appear genuine in your reads and appear frustrated trying to take credit for absolutely everything that was ever done. Saying shit like 'The people who are calling me scum are scum?' Come on. That's simply a ridiculous statement and it was thrown into the thread only for effect. HF is a strong player as either alignment but this reminds me SO MUCH of the last championship game we played together it's crazy. The one thing I can't quite decide on is where his early attacks on me belong---a bunch of people early game flung shit at me early but none of it stuck, and I think HF was the worst offender. Where have I been in his posts throughout the latter half of the game so far though? Onegu - When you read this Onegu, can you (or somebody else) point me in the direction of you catching HF? I REALLY want to read that. Almost assuredly town so I feel like kush must have been right about somebody (since marv faith) else on that list. GK and JAT have flown completely under the radar. I wouldn't be surprised at all if one of them was scum. WHen they post I seem to remember liking some stuff they say but then I can't remember any of it nor does it have any effect on thread direction or sentiment. If either is scum they're good scum. In before the post above was 'stiff' or 'manufactured' gg calling myself out before that horseshit is thrown at me again. | ||
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I'm going to be streaming later tonight so I'll post on and off + Show Spoiler + I kind of want to stream myself playing this game like Foolishness did in Shadow cause I feel like it would be really interesting but I also feel like that's probably against the rules I can likely be on tomorrow afternoon as I have some time off so yall had better be active then. | ||
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Care to talk about it? | ||
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On August 07 2014 11:02 Onegu wrote: So I am awake but busy for the next few hours, but I didn't want to say anything until after day post, but I am leaning toward a marv lynch ATM. Like he hasn't done much, led a mislynch day 1, and in a game with no medics and no chance to be saved wasn't shot. This just doesn't happen with a town marv, like maybe we can give him one more day to catch scum but it's really risky if he is scum as it gives him one more mislynch and a nk. I say kill him now. @ WoS. I pointed out my gut felt he was scum, and quoted something you and him talked about to give me feels on both of you. Then he was like oh then why did you give poofter a town read. He twisted my words to make his own agenda and defense. It's on page like 94ish, my filter is small you should see it fast in there. If you guys are against a marv lynch I would want HF Back later with the rest of my reads. ##VOTE:Marv I actually meant where you caught HF in those other games you were talking about. Interesting interpretation though. I'm not sure town or scum more likely thinks of himself 'catching' someone who hasn't flipped yet and is by no means a conclusive lynch. As for 'this doesn't happen with a town marv,' yes, yes it does. That first paragraph though dude. Just awful. I refuse to use the term 'wishy-washy,' but you go from being at least appearing fairly confident with 'this just doesn't happen with town marv' (even though you're wrong) to 'maybe we can give him one more day.' If you think he's so risky to keep alive, you push for his lynch, you don't bring up the idea and immediately back down, dude. Somebody who knows Onegu...that's still town Onegu, right? | ||
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On August 04 2014 10:48 gobbledydook wrote: Read haru's filter. It is certainly badly worded. But palmar's advice on mafia: the most boring person is mafia, is legit. Often ppl who say the worst things are town because they aren't actively trying to sound innocuous. This quote makes me wonder why he didn't come after me early along with everyone else. From everyone else's description of me I certainly should have fit the bill, no? A bunch of decent posting talking about Artanis and kush, then this: On August 05 2014 13:12 gobbledydook wrote: Artanis finally showed up and did something useful. Poofter hasn't. All he really has done is scumread on the timing of marv's vote and then say he can't read him anyway. It's such a useless, trivial point that occupies lots of space. ##vote: tehpoofter I guess this is what everyone has a problem with, and I really do see it here. It looks as though he was almost looking for a reason to drop the read on Artanis. What the motivation is for that I'm not sure. On August 05 2014 13:36 gobbledydook wrote: 1) Haru: It's a good case, I had raised some of my objections about Haru before, but HF persuaded me that just because I don't agree with him doesn't mean he is scum. I still don't like any of his posts, the logic just isn't there. I could be persuaded to vote Haru. 2) Obi: Null read atm, he's played similarly to when I saw him in Noir Mini 2, and he was town in that game. He hasn't particularly stood out as towny though so that's why I have a null read. 3) Artanis: I said before, I think he's come out with good discussion and so I unvoted him. 4) The meaning of life: 42. Fairly innocuous comments here and no commitment to much of anything, #3 is a very slight fleshing out of why he unvoted Artanis. On August 05 2014 18:27 gobbledydook wrote: When I talked about artanis being useful I was referring to and Which to me seems like legit discussion and good points made. Holyflare, forgive me for being dumb, but I don't quite follow your logic in dismissing Artanis's posts as being mafia filler. Can you please explain in detail? I'm sure I am missing out on some nuance here. Better explanation. I'm REALLY not seeing scum here so far, and I'm fairly certain the reason for most scumreads on GD have already happened by now. The rest of his filter is some ok posting, more stuff on Haru (I'm still salty nobody thinks to bring up any of my reasons to vote him but whatever) and then he goes all super rage defensive mode, something I personally find to be more likely from a new town perspective---he's not used to dealing with people aggressively attacking him and being wrong. It can be extremely frustrating to know you're in the right and you can't convince people. Now kush is apparently the primary proponent of the GD lynch, so I'm looking at him as well. Fuck I kinda wish I had attempted to look into this earlier because I don't think I understand kush's main points. Apparently according to him GD is actively painting Haru in a scummy light a while ago with that post about Haru flinging shit at 7 people. On August 07 2014 01:09 kushm4sta wrote: The reasons people give for their scumreads usually make up a very small percentage of their filters, but they are the most important parts of their filters by far. Gobbles has this to say about it: According to Gobbles, Haru is suspicious of Artanis because Artanis is buddying with someone Haru thinks is scum. That is not what Haru meant at all though. Haru meant that Artanis is suspicious because he's buddying someone he should have been skeptical of. That major misrepresentation, one that I doubt town would ever make, is the only specific reason gobbles gives for voting Haru. Ok there we go. I've got it. On August 07 2014 01:30 kushm4sta wrote: On top of that, there is no scum hunting idea in gobbles filter that sticks out as "wow it would be hard for scum to think of that." This is real good to. Fucking kush man. Alright I think I finally have a grasp on this stuff. It looks like kush has a little bit of confirmation bias and some preflip associations going on in his head as he pretty adamantly believes GD to be scum chainsawing Haru to protect Artanis. I dunno he brings up a could of good points about GD but they're pretty inconclusive imo, and marv I'm honestly pretty surprised this is good enough for you to go ahead and sheep him on. To me GD is null at best/worst. I don't see anything majorly towny but I don't see the opposite either. | ||
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On August 07 2014 15:23 goodkarma wrote: @Wave: Super-long elaborate post for a... null read? U serious? Night all Problem? | ||
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will be home in !~2h so people had better be around to discuss | ||
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can you comment then on what you said recently about kush/gd in my experience dead players reads are almost universally ignored do you believe we should actually me following them this time because from what i read of kush im not entirely convinced, and even if i was it seems the onyl person who could keep that going is you | ||
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looks like a coinflip to me leaving now, on computer soon | ||
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On August 08 2014 01:06 Eden1892 wrote: To me Poofter's filter would be a coin flip, except that the fact that it would be a coin flip at this point means that it's not a coin flip I would expect a townie to have done more to distinguish himself by now This is a valid point I guess. AFK to me = coinflip but whatever there is a little more to it. I could swear I remember playing in a game with Poofter as scum and his play wasn't this horrible. Fuck there was something I wanted to talk about before I left and now i can't remember what it was Anyway I'm around now. Lot of people throwing around Haru's name like 'I wanna lynch him/he's scum but...' It's worrisome. I think I said I'd sheep HF on Poofter a little while ago. Looking back at that I found this On August 05 2014 13:24 WaveofShadow wrote: Hey HF, now that you've unvoted Poofter do you no longer believe he is the lynch for today? Your mind was changed pretty quick. Are you going to inform the rest of the people on poofter's ass now about his newfound non-scumminess? and then this On August 05 2014 13:30 kushm4sta wrote: WoS keep in mind that rayn thinks HF is like the best mafia player ever. That says a lot about what HF's mafia play looks like. and then these On August 05 2014 17:26 Holyflare wrote: When i read through the thread i thought to myself "why are so many ppl sheeping me onto poofter so easily instead of just figuring shit out" then i was like hey they're probably mafia. Gd was one of those ppl. On August 05 2014 17:26 Holyflare wrote: Wave was another Which was another blatant lie of yours since I immediately caught your ninja unvote at that time and wanted to know what was up. Wouldn't call that sheeping easily. HF you're right in your overly pushy 'rawr I'm super angry pay attention to me' way that there are better targets than you but there are problems. Eden says he won't lynch you till LYLO but the problem is much like me, marv and a few others, you are damn near impossible to lynch. You're not today's lynch that's for sure but if I had to choose one person kush was right about, I really think it's you. | ||
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On August 08 2014 01:58 Holyflare wrote: Wave i just don't care and it's scummy you are talking about it I told you if you think I'm scum then vote me but stop discussing me because I'm NOT scum so it's redundant in finding actual mafia and i want this day to be productive First of all, I'll discuss whatever I fucking want to. There's more than one scum HF, and this day has been plenty productive so far, but all you do is bitch about how unproductive everything is all the time, and piss and moan when people don't take what you shove down their throats. Now, go ahead and piss and moan about Poofter to me if you're 100% he's not a coinflip and we should be voting him today because as of right now I think I'd still prefer Haru over him. | ||
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On August 08 2014 02:01 Holyflare wrote: Just because you caught my unvote doesn't make it a lie. You said you'd sheep me before i unvoted and gd did a scummy sheep and gk sheeped straight away too. It waas pretty unreal and so i unvoted. I didn't even make a real case and all of that happened. Hence i backed off (also when poofter said something about how i should town read him) poofter goes afk as mafia and i left it to muster a bit and here we are I said I'd sheep you if things continued as is and Haru didn't pan out. It was conditional and those conditions were never met. If you found what GD/GK did so scummy as well, why did you not bother to follow up? And where the fuck IS GK? | ||
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On August 08 2014 02:02 Holyflare wrote: How has this day been productive in the slightest?? I'm the only one that has even proposed any lynch whatsoever. Enough with this horseshit, you've been doing it all game. People are still discussing things and considering what to do when they're around. | ||
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On August 08 2014 02:11 Holyflare wrote: No they aren't rofl stop being shit you aren't reading whatsoever. To sum this day up: Haru enters in all caps how awesome he is because ppl scum read him I make a case Eden decides he'll sheep me Gd decides he'll sheep me Marv decides he'll afk all day and read filters later Onegu scum reads marv and afks till later You return and talk more about me and call poofter a coin flip Where is the productivity wave plz? Stop calling it horse shit and terrible. Just like you can talk about what you want so can i. Nothing has happened today apart from me making a case. Yeah if you look at it from a completely self-centred POV nothing has happened because you ignore any of the discussion around you and you're not considering the few contributions people have made when here as anything at all. For example the fact that Onegu comes in here, catches up and posts, and then makes a case on marv is stupid/ballsy but productive because it should allow people to get a decent read on him. Who here has actually attempted to read Onegu, in this game aside from me btw? | ||
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On August 08 2014 02:16 Holyflare wrote: You can't just call poofter a coin flip because if you actually read his filter you'd realise how unproductive it is. I'm going back to my heuristic and i don't care what you do in your town games or what onegu thinks about calling something 100% being scummy. I'm town get fucked. People that do catch ups and focus on asinine shit and make irrelevant posts while doing it are mafia. Until that's proven wrong it's 100%. His list reads contain no info, all i know id that he's scum reading marv because what? Fear? Failed to expand list reads. Returns from afk not caught up again and then asks for generic town reads instead. No involvement in the game. No care what happens, no follow us with anything. Reads not changing or evolving. You calling any of this a coin flip is terrible No it's not HF. It's what afk people DO most of the time when they don't have time/can't be assed to contribute properly; they contribute like shit. How many games have you played on TL exactly that this is somehow news to you? Can you show me examples of your 100% heuristic? Like seriously I'll vote Poofter but it doesn't seem much better than slightly above glorified lurker to me at this point. | ||
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On August 08 2014 02:14 justanothertownie wrote: How about instead of arguing about how productive this game has been we talk about who wen want to lynch. You've been around today and I don't know who you want to lynch. Is it also Poofter? Do you agree with HF that Poofter is not a coinflip at all? | ||
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On August 08 2014 02:19 Holyflare wrote: Onegu is not productive. Calling marv mafia for not being night killed was bad because it means he hasn't been reading. It was obvious kush was a nk because he was pushing stuff and nobody else was and i can't see how you can read it as productive when there are much scummier ppl than that. He also voted marv for that lame reason over me despite wanting to write a whole case on me. So is Onegu scum then? At the very least I feel he is putting genuine effort into the catchup/reads in his own Onegu-y way and like I said whether or not he is wrong (or dumb) the productivity at least in this instance in his posting itself. | ||
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On August 08 2014 02:23 justanothertownie wrote: Seemed more like you were condemning catchups in general but ok. This pretty much but fine, clarification. Why does the afk thing not apply to Poofter exactly? | ||
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On August 08 2014 02:24 justanothertownie wrote: Poofter is only a coinflip if you are saying that lurky people are generally coinflips and I disagree with that. In my experience it is (or maybe I'm just think of the lurky lynches I have headed, admittedly). People like gumshoe and Onegu for example. Yes Poofter is different from those but I've been burned on this shit quite a lot and ultimately I'm more satisfied with Haru, who is also admittedly moving into lurk territory. Ugh maybe now I'm beginning to see why people have been complaining so much so far this game now that I can actually get some of my proper activity in | ||
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On August 08 2014 02:28 justanothertownie wrote: Hm? If by afk thing you mean that lurkers are coinflips then I think it doesn't apply that often at all. Poofter did next to nothing to make this game move forward even when he was here. No I was referring to this On August 08 2014 02:21 Holyflare wrote: This doesn't apply to poofter and he had plenty of time day 1 to not look shit. The day he normally looks best on. | ||
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On August 08 2014 02:39 justanothertownie wrote: Poofter is generally not an afk guy and he wasn't afk day1 - still didn't look very towny. But 'generally not an afk guy' doesn't mean he's scum when he IS afk. I feel like I should be convinced by now but I'm not. | ||
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On August 08 2014 03:42 marvellosity wrote: ..... i basically don't believe you've read through any of my filter to be saying that. Ohey lookadat, you're around. Hey Poofter, I don't think you had to read marv's filter to know that he was a major contributory force (albeit a slighty subdued one) for a bunch of D1, you probably had to have read the thread though. Have you been doing that? What is your goal for today/the game? | ||
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On August 08 2014 04:07 Tehpoofter wrote: You can be contributing and still not sound excited... they're not mutually exclusive. Yes not real time though MY goal is to kill mafia who I think is Goobly... who I have talked about since he made that shit tier post jumping on my wagon day 1. What was your goal with your huge null read on him.... why did you feel the need to tell the thread you had a null read? I'm not convinced Goobly is scum, and other people seem to not be quite as convinced either. How exactly do you plan on getting him lynched? Didn't know what the outcome of the Goobly read was going to be until I did it. Hell, even if I did it's always worth it for me to go through filters in that way. Why do YOU think I felt the need to tell the thread I hda a null read, or are you just copying the suspicion echoed by...I think it was GK at the time with no followup? | ||
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On August 08 2014 04:13 Tehpoofter wrote: I can see that. I still think I'm right but I'm going to make reading his filter a priority at work to see how it hits me as a whole. LEts talk about goobly. How sick was his wagon yesterday (Vivax, kush, eden, me) like how pure is that? I'm (I think) your only question mark on there and you're just wrong on me. How hot is a goobly lynch? I agree its amazing we should all vote him! I will now. ##Vote Goobledydook I've seen upwards of 7 people townies on a town wagon. Not impressed if that is your reason for voting him. | ||
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You heard the man. Goobly then me it is. | ||
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You have actively stated you still want him lynched and voted for him; if you plan on rereading him, supposedly to perform some sort of analysis and reevaluate to see if your read is still correct, why bother stating at this point how scummy he is and voting for him? | ||
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On August 08 2014 05:12 Tehpoofter wrote: In case you guys didn't guess I'm at work now Yo WoS who you want to die today? I got your strong null read on goobly you seem to not like me so should I be the dead person? JAT Whats your read on the goobly dude? You think kushm16sta was the best kill last night? Totally reading the thread. Poofter first of all, when I said Goobly and me I meant those were the two you said you'd filter dive after marv. Second, if you've read the thread at all you'd have some idea that I'm still not convinced on you being scum and have all but defended you against HF then JAT. Interested to see what HF has to say when he gets back now that you're actually doing something. My top pick for the day is still Haru. And on that note ##Vote: HaruRH | ||
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On August 08 2014 05:18 justanothertownie wrote: Goobly dude is pretty scummy. But I still have my doubts because I think Haru (who btw. also hasn't done anything in ages) might be even more scummy and I don't think they are together. I have no idea if kush was the best kill since I don't have all the information scum has. What a weird question. And yeah I was just about to get on that. That question seems really loaded Poofter. What are you getting at exactly? And you ninjad me re: Haru. Mind-meld is good stuff. | ||
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On August 08 2014 05:52 Eden1892 wrote: Poofter, summarize your case on gooblegobblegooblegobble. No peeking at the filter or the thread, as soon as you see this post it. I know you're online so if you don't answer in 5 minutes from this being posted then I'm going to assume you don't have one. Lol Eden now I don't think you're reading the thread | ||
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On August 08 2014 04:46 WaveofShadow wrote: Actually wait. Why would you need to reread Goobly in the first place? You have actively stated you still want him lynched and voted for him; if you plan on rereading him, supposedly to perform some sort of analysis and reevaluate to see if your read is still correct, why bother stating at this point how scummy he is and voting for him? It's really the above that i have a problem with. He has never stated his intent to be 'absolutely certain' that Goobly is scum and to re-evaluate his read. He already seems to be sure that he's scum so the reason below doesn't make sense. On August 08 2014 05:04 Tehpoofter wrote: I think hes my strongest read from reading the thread so reading his filter should give me a truer sense plus whenever I bring a case on someone I read their filter which brings up all the things I want to say. My memory isn't good enough to remember every post the dude has made. | ||
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mebbe phoneposting till later | ||
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Also I forgot obi eve. Existed | ||
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On August 08 2014 08:05 Eden1892 wrote: don't be a pussy, i've outmuscled these guys before, you can too I'd actually really like to see this lol marv's cae is compelling but I really don't like how he manages to completely ignore anything haru has said or done Speaking of which where the fuck Whatever the lynch into list makes sense I think Disagree on HF Eden | ||
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On August 08 2014 08:28 marvellosity wrote: btw I have a 100% success rate lynching Onegu on day 2 when he has replaced. Statistically, this lynch is a sure thing. Is this true? Cause I think it's well known that I've fucked up onegu reads about a billion times Also can't read the spoilers on your onegu ca right now | ||
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Haru hasn't done shit in quite a while and this basically gives him a free marvpass | ||
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On August 08 2014 08:41 marvellosity wrote: the problem is, you might be mafia, so i don't trust you very much. I'm rubber and you're glue Plz marv when do you ever trust me And also plz, confirmed townies aren't always right. | ||
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On August 08 2014 08:44 Holyflare wrote: Wave are you actually mafia or something? I feel like your reads never have any weight in them whatsoever and then when someone comes up with something compelling you disregard it because of no reason. What has onegu done that makes you think he's not as likely to flip mafia as haru? His disregard for anything convincing? His null read on marv but voting him anyway over me? His lack of any read based on happenings in this game? It's not onegu it's artanis, had at ow read on him I can't read onegu at all. I have fucked up reads him in quite a few games | ||
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On August 08 2014 08:45 marvellosity wrote: also I hard-townread you in YOSO after I read your filter. "there's 0% chance i'm lynching wave today" if you recall I tried to reread a bunch of the games that happened right before i was on 'break' found out i basically forgot what happened in all of them i was a real asshole for most of that game it seems | ||
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##unvote ##vote: onegu Again won't be around for deadline, might be able to phonepost some during the day if need be but it seems not | ||
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Onegu, I don't even know what to say about your posting before you were lynched. gg Few people tossing shit my way to see what sticks it seems; HF if you want to call me scum, either put up or shut up. You've been pussyfooting around it for days now and you've done completely dick all about it other than take potshots here and there. It just looks like you're trying to cover your bases or something somehow, while getting 'reluctantly led around by the nose' onto lynches you supposedly don't want to be on. You have all these scumreads and you whine and piss and bitch and moan about them all day, and then what happens in the end? You somehow lose your nerve and sheep marv onto people you hadn't even considered for most of the day? Fuck that, you're a WAY better player than that. Scum numero uno right here ladies and gents. A side note: Problem I see here (aside from the entire thread following marv's whims, myself included) is people are completely ignoring who they've found scummy for the entire first half to 2/3s of a day. Happened on D1 and now D2 as well. Why was Haru pushed off the table again? GD or Poofter? (For those that wanted them as their primary lynch) Thread sentiment has magically disappeared from the scummier players in this game despite attention being all on that for the larger part of a day, reasoning being mostly, marv. Now I find it VERY difficult to believe scum marv would put himself out there completely and be essentially solely responsible for two town lynches in a row, but unfortunately circumstances being what they are, and the fact that marv has been completely and utterly wrong twice now, means at the very least I don't think marv should be off the table. I want to say 'give it some time' or something like that and I'll probably do that, but I get naggies in the back of my head saying (so you're going to let him lead you a third time/ What will it take to be convinced?). I'm silencing those for now, but fuck dude. I don't think I've ever played a game where you were this blatantly wrong. And that includes Shadow game where you WERE scum. Back to scum: Haru/HF/??? No idea who that third one is. One of the multitudes of people outside of Eden/marv is my likely guess but considering they've all been brought up before and then dropped hastily it could really be any of them and I don't have particularly strong feelings about any. If people want to talk (and I really hope they do) I'm around for the evening. | ||
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On August 09 2014 12:19 ObiWanShinobi wrote: Question: what game is Vivaxing from? I don't know what this means. Why? | ||
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Cav, talk to me buddeh. Can you comment on something relevant? | ||
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I have no idea what game it's from. | ||
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On August 09 2014 15:06 Eden1892 wrote: i said i was gonna look at this later tonight but that's not happening i could honestly just yolo lynch marv and hf right now but it feels like stupid and bad play to be like "hurr durr u drove on a townie therefore u r mafia even tho i 100% sheeped u onto townie" You know very well that isn't a good idea, nor will it ever happen. If a lynch was ever going to be pushed on either of those two (hint hint: HF not marv) you'd have to somehow lead the town and do it over the people currently leading it--I'd fucking do it myself if I had the time to be on when everyone else in this game seems to be. Like normally I'm super pissed off at everybody by this point in a game but maybe because I've put less time into it I'm less emotional about it/care less? I don't know. I think I'm more pissed off because I want to be around more. On August 09 2014 14:00 ObiWanShinobi wrote: It depends on if Holyflare read/played the game in question, and whether or not Vivax was mafia. Holyflare justified his vote on Onegu by claiming that he was "Vivaxing," IE coming up with reasons for a scumread after having a scumread. If he played the game in question, and if Vivax was town, he would know that Vivaxing isn't actually a scumtell at all and has no place in a scumread. There's a couple of things that don't really add up, so I really want to do my research before I start gunning for him. I honestly don't know if that proves anything and sounds really convoluted but I look forward to your research. | ||
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On August 10 2014 04:35 Eden1892 wrote: I could kill Wave tomorrow tbh Yeh that won't happen HF mebbe its time I actually read your filter | ||
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On August 10 2014 04:58 Eden1892 wrote: game is seriously not fun with like 5-6 people actually trying To be fair I actually feel bad about this I can't remember a game I felt less invested in I've become everything I've always hated | ||
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On August 10 2014 05:57 Holyflare wrote: Answer everything i said first Patience honey When I don't have to phonepost Unless there's something I can answer without looking through stuff | ||
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If I was scum I certainly wouldn't be playing this wy But then again you don't know that so you're excused Then again that reminds me of HF saying that earlier and he should know that too | ||
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Cause clarly makes sense that I'd ush him right off the bat and support you n your erlier lynch even as you turn on me Ugh shouldn't have bothered posttimg yet Ill deal with you later | ||
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And hf its not the same tjing | ||
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On August 10 2014 06:35 Eden1892 wrote: Wave be level with me Did you actually read the thread before you made that post? Obviosuly not I can't do ths right now Somebody fcking be on later whn I can Never joinin agame with all eyros again | ||
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im the towniest one here plz | ||
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HF you're so smart | ||
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On August 10 2014 08:02 Holyflare wrote: wave explain yourself Later Wanted to see who died Maybe if you stay u till 4 we can have a convesation | ||
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1 h ish | ||
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Few people tossing shit my way to see what sticks it seems; HF if you want to call me scum, either put up or shut up. You've been pussyfooting around it for days now and you've done completely dick all about it other than take potshots here and there. It just looks like you're trying to cover your bases or something somehow, while getting 'reluctantly led around by the nose' onto lynches you supposedly don't want to be on. You have all these scumreads and you whine and piss and bitch and moan about them all day, and then what happens in the end? You somehow lose your nerve and sheep marv onto people you hadn't even considered for most of the day? Fuck that, you're a WAY better player than that. Scum numero uno right here ladies and gents. A side note: Problem I see here (aside from the entire thread following marv's whims, myself included) is people are completely ignoring who they've found scummy for the entire first half to 2/3s of a day. Happened on D1 and now D2 as well. Why was Haru pushed off the table again? GD or Poofter? (For those that wanted them as their primary lynch) Thread sentiment has magically disappeared from the scummier players in this game despite attention being all on that for the larger part of a day, reasoning being mostly, marv. The difference between paragraphs A and B is that A is a scumread, B is an admonishment of the shittiness of town thus far. (though I admit I have been a large part of that shittiness.) On August 10 2014 06:28 Holyflare wrote: Hey jat you're scum for x, y, z! Hey everyone else needs to stop doing x, y, z! If you (or JAT) had stopped to think for a second, you'd realize that what I said is exactly what I meant. The fact that the mislynch was completely unanimous means that both scum AND town are completely guilty of dropping their shit and sheeping; the difference obviously being in the motivation. You can't always see what the motivation is, hence telling the rest of town not to all just drop their shit and sheep anymore to make it so goddamn easy for scum. Now as far the above read of you being factually incorrect, I'll admit I was simply going based on what I felt had happened at the time. I didn't go back to do any filter diving or fact checking; I just seem to remember marv heading both lynches and you pissing and moaning. Yeah you're right, it doesn't make any sense to call you out solely for x,y,z if everybody in the game is doing it, but to me I suppose it was simply an addition to earlier scum points I had against you, and I was only seeing the scum motivation in sheeping coming from you. There was likely bias going on based on your terrible accusations of me earlier, the fact that I basically can't trust you worth a damn in any game ever, or it could simply be a factor of the pull marv seems to have where he somehow magnetizes everyone to his whims. Either way I don't have a good excuse. You're more than welcome to call me scum for shitty play or not reading if you want, though I'm not sure I see the obvious scum motivation in what amounts to flat-out lying about something that is apparently easily verifiable. (Not only that, but I take way more pride in my scumplay than that. I don't get caught, and even if someone catches on, I fight like fucking crazy. 3-month old meta or not, up to you if you want discount that) Now I'm going to go through your filter thoroughly and give you a fair shot as I always do. I get the feeling what I find at least in relation to the above won't be too far from the truth. If you're scum this game I refuse to let you get the better of me again. I WILL be the one to get you lynched. If you're not scum then I'm going to need to drop this and move on because there is at LEAST one scum amongst GK/GD/poof/Obi/JAT as well and I have no idea who it is. Haru has basically stopped playing and I'm almost certain of him at this point, though now I feel like I should go back and re-re-read him just to be sure. + Show Spoiler + I had a whole list of shit typed out to taunt you further here but that's not getting us anywhere right now. | ||
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Eden, if you have issues let's get them out. I'll be reading HF in the meantime. If I keep up my scumread on him I have the same issue as before in that it's very dangerous to leave him alive until the end. Especially given that the way NKs have been going, even though you have been preaching that you'd lynch him at LYLO no matter what, you're going to be dead before LYLO if HF is scum and no one will carry on your legacy in all likelihood. + Show Spoiler + (If HF is town that would be a decent reason I think scum would keep him alive when marv did dick all the entire night---he made it very clear who he'd be going for and how hard he'd be going for them so HF may be more useful to scum alive than dead atm if town---but WIFOM so meh) As for the rest of you...hypocritical I know, but please do something coherent and useful, or we've lost this game. | ||
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On August 10 2014 11:55 WaveofShadow wrote: Explain your above two posts please? Like...what few wall-o'-text posts I have bothered with this game have only made people think I was scummier. What exactly makes you think differently Obi? | ||
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On August 10 2014 12:00 ObiWanShinobi wrote: Simple: because it's really easy for you to stop giving a shit and coast to an easy win if you're mafia. Town, for the most part, doesn't really care, so there's no reason for you to start rallying the troops and start doing things. Unfortunately, I would attribute this to you not knowing me very well----in most cases this wouldn't be a solid town point for me at all because I put effort into my scumgames. This game has been a little different for me for whatever reason. I think it's likely a combination of me having less time overall and maybe being demotivated by losing thus far and the fact that hardly anyone is around to talk when I can be (which is when I do my best work---conversationally) On August 10 2014 12:02 ObiWanShinobi wrote: Yeah, but it only took you two minutes to change your lynch target. You made no effort to pursue Poofter as a lynch at any point, and you just kind of fucked off when you put your vote down on onegu. It looked like you didn't really care. It looked like most people didn't really care. Hence one the paragraphs of my earlier post HF had a problem with. You could probably have said the same of me. | ||
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I dunno if it's just timezones but this game just hasn't been as much fun as usual. I had fun on Thursday when people were around. | ||
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I feel like I should be looking into more than the specific stuff that we've been all about recently, but I think my instincts were actually right even though I went about it badly. Part of the problem I have is stuff like this that Holyflare has been doing all game: On August 07 2014 06:05 Holyflare wrote: If this is true everything you've said all nigjt has been a complete lie. Your 8 step bs, your argument with obi, your statements. All bs. 1) Super aggressive statements about how town he is and everyone else needs to get the fuck off him. Bullying is not a solid town tactic. Only one example provided but there are a fair amount in his filter. On August 04 2014 08:57 Holyflare wrote: the fact you feel disheartened/seemingly disappointed about getting a 'town' pm which is exactly what you did in your game as mafia and you haven't done it in your town games that i checked just now in your profile (newest town ones) you rolled mafia didn't you ?2) Tossing potshots at me/artanis/whoever and not following up. Keeping people as 'back pocket' scumreads just in case. 3) Taking credit for what is not rightly his. On August 07 2014 06:36 Holyflare wrote: What terrible stuff are you spouting? I'm saying you're scum reading the person making arguments rather than the people who are sheeping those arguments. If they were weak the people sheeping them should be MORE scummy to you than me because they are sheeping bad arguments. Also i brought all the people to consider vivax maybe you shpuld reread. Yes marv switched and everyone else did but before then they were all agreeing with me. That bolded quote is a flat-out lie which I'll explain further down. On August 05 2014 18:49 Holyflare wrote: You make me happy in my special place for mentioning vivax because i wanted to but didn't want him to go full retard for me doing it To me this reads like simple scumfear of going after Vivax in a more hardcore way than he had been doing up until this point, which wasn't much. A little suspicion here and there, and then we gets the 'ok' from Marv? On August 05 2014 19:09 Holyflare wrote: Well he was all over the place in that game so it was quite obvious. Here he's made some pretty bogus read on posts about haru +1-1 post that didn't exist and then it's like he's stuck in a time warp of the first few posts of the game. He pops back to ask more about the same things and asks opinions but isn't pushing anything despite saying he has scum reads. Just drops a i scum read wave, discuss post and goes away for long time. On August 06 2014 04:09 Holyflare wrote: There's 0 chance marv is mafia what the fuck? Vivax doing the scummiest shit. ##unvote ##vote vivax Yes, technically HF was the one to vote him first (before marv at least) but the point remains his main target was Haru (or me or Poofter depending on where you are in his filter throughout the early day On August 05 2014 04:42 Holyflare wrote: )but whatever i could lynch any of haru/obi/reluctantly wave/poofter and he didn't seriously consider Vivax until marv did. No, not a blind sheep like I described it before so that was unfair of me, but the motivation is quite similar in following along with a mislynch and giving marv what he wants. Let me tell you guys something about marv. It's easy as hell to buddy up to him when he's town and you're scum. I did it in both of my scumgames and I won. I can't say for sure whether HF knows this intimately or not but I wouldn't put it past him. Just follow along with him and you're golden essentially---you saw how happy he was with everybody on his Onegu lynch. But I digress--the mafia motivation is fairly clear for HF on the Vivax lynch. He spread out his feelers onto a bunch of townies (and maybe a bus in Haru? HF has ZERO problems bussing out of the gate despite what some people in the game have said about this being a possibility) and when he gets the okay he runs with it. Town motivation---perhaps he simply found Vivax scummy enough to vote him at that period in time and it has nothing to do with marv? I don't think so. He's ALL over Haru (and is constantly mentioning me in conjunction, though not always to call me scummy) basically all day and then drops the scumread he's been completely raving over in like 50%+ of his posts to join up with marv? Makes it very difficult to believe. More likely scenario is while HF is not afraid to bus a scumbuddy off the bat, why bother doing something like that when you can buddy marv AND get a townlynch instead? I REALLY don't interpret this as HF heading the lynch. + Show Spoiler + Also this shit annoys me: On August 05 2014 17:18 Holyflare wrote: Also kush. If wave is so skeptical of me then why does he want to sheep my poofter vote and haru vote and everything. He doesn't even look skeptical to me because he's pretty much called me probably town the entire game whereas games like cell he never ever gave out the town read from paranoia I came up with points on Haru completely different from his, asks for his input which he refuses to give me because he is 'too tunneled on Haru' (which, funnily enough, he drops not too long after) and he says that I'm looking to sheep him. Just more examples of his tossing shit at me, though I do think I mentioned this earlier in my filter. Just pisses me off reading it because it's such misrepresentation of me when he knows me better. This and the 'upset at rolling scum' thing which I've brought up previously. Just looks like he's been wanting to keep me on the backburner all game, though I can't honestly be certain as to why he'd keep me behind Poofter today, unless it's because he knows I'm not going to be an easy mislynch. On August 06 2014 19:11 Holyflare wrote: Honestly the only reason i didn't lynch haru is because vivax was giving me so many scum feelings that i wanted him lynched to see if he was doing his scummy defences. I'd happily lynch haru next. And then where did we end up? Association blerrrghhh but why has Haru been saved so often? I really don't follow. I know it was because of marv the second time around (not that I found his solely-based-on-targeting heuristic good enough) but for a guy who scummed it up massively D1 and has all but disappeared the rest of the game since he hasn't been mentioned? Rings more of active defending or at the least misdirection. I think Haru should be the lynch today but that's a little off-topic. On August 06 2014 19:20 Holyflare wrote: Alternatively mafia chat says quick. Haru dying need more votes on vivax and he does it and they are both mafia  Intimate knowledge of QT? lol I'll admit this is unflipped association and turrible but it really did stand out. Could be instead 'haru dying need more votes on vivax' except HF the one saying it to basically anyone. A stretch lol but still. Now about the switch onto Onegu: I'll admit to this I only a vagu idea why I thought he wasn't pushing Onegu and just blindly sheeped marv aside from me simply not reading properly. On August 09 2014 19:28 Holyflare wrote: Wave wtf are you talking about? I've scum read onegu since he's subbed in and was the only one bloody talking to him despite everyone being afk??? Vivaxing is from titanic 3 paint where vivax called someone scum and then all the reasons for the person being scum happened after he called them scum. Vivax was mafia duh. Onegu did the same thing by saying he had scum reads other than me and he'd reveal them after night (which is weird enough) but then his only other scum read was marv for not being nk'd. So he lied about it to make it look like he was contributing and after all that ended up vivaxing as town. You can see he got called out on his bs by the heart after I pointed it out. Tomorrow i will lead a lynch and it will be on mafia as I'm going home to a computer. So be afraid mafia be very afraid. It's the bolded ultimately. HF talks to Onegu all day it's true and calls him scummy and whatnot but then for whatever reasons pushes Poofter for the entirety of the day, flipping back onto him once again when marv gives the ok. Admittedly his reasons ARE different (and better) than marv's here, but it shows similar motivation to his switching onto vivax. There are a few glaring issues I find with the whole case above that some bias is all but blinding me to. Town motivations ARE there despite me not mentioning them, and they ARE somewhat obvious so I need not point them out (I will if deemed necessary), but I have a problem in that I can't trust HF EVER. He is completely capable of playing a scumgame like this, and looking extremely townie as scum. I'm looking for subtleties in his scumgame that he may be better able to pull off than others. Essentially there's a couple things HF could do today to make me feel better about him (actually three things, one of which is have a conversation with me but given timezones apparently that hasn't been possible) but I'm not going to tip him off to either. I won't be voting for HF because despite the above case I am NOT convinced that he is scum, just terribly terribly worried that if he is we may have already lost because he's reached an unlynchable stage again. (doesn't mean I won't try) I'm going to try even harder to be around for some of the day tomorrow but I don't know how possible it's going to be. All comments are welcome, I will do my best to get to everything but I can't promise I can do stuff other than phoneposting. | ||
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Why GD now over Haru OR Poofter given the above? I just don't understand. | ||
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On August 10 2014 23:30 Holyflare wrote: Also that gobble case isn't so convincing and I'm voting for him Can I ask why exactly rather than poofter Also harus re-entrance and weird cases... Eden have you played games with him? Is that...normal? | ||
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On August 11 2014 02:17 Holyflare wrote: Also wave i outlined gobble in my filter which you said you read :p You didn't outline it recently I'm wondering why you prefer gobble atm Also Eden I have no idea what you're talking about | ||
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On August 11 2014 01:51 Eden1892 wrote: Guys don't kill Gobble I don't like it. Poofter much better lynch right now, not even trying to solve game + scummy. Gobble at least tried. Get on Poofter instead. Enjoy to scum lynch gogogo More like afk and gonna get mod killed. Look at the last time he posted. | ||
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On August 11 2014 02:47 HaruRH wrote: It's basically admitting that it was scummy to scream and shout and matyr, so he is going to not do it. Isn't that weird? It is weird to me though. Sets off a signal of mine. Eh. It doesn't mean much to me, I've seen martyring and discussion about it from both sides now. There are a lot of people including me who have no idea where to progress if today's lynch is truly going to be between Gd and poofter (7even though I think differently I won't bea round to push or discuss much Sao) You seem very sure of yourself regarding Gd when not many people are. Why? | ||
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On August 11 2014 03:00 HaruRH wrote: Gobble: One of those who tried to throw shit at me and see if it stuck. I know that his 'strong reads' were defended by someone d1, but after d1, gobble is only hard pushing pooft, who is pretty easy to lynch in my opinion. So, after being asked for his scumreads, he throws out 3 names: obi, pooft, me. His read on obi was mostly a meta case: 'Obi's been pretty devoid of content in this game, when I played him in Noir Mini, he was capable of producing good, detailed reads as town. So I think the fact that he hasn't posted anything that made me think 'hm thats good', points to him being scum.' Which just begs for obi to come and counter this bad argument. Next, his read on poofter and me was based on how we were non-committal (I had valid reasons so don't bring this shit up again). However, this time, his previous read on me was not used but he rather chose an easy route of explaining, by using how I was afk. Gobble is just trying to stay alive right now by giving tons of reads that can be changed. He can easily jump ship whenever he wants to, all his reads are 'not as convincing as the wagon', aka if a wagon comes up, he can easily jump aboard by giving a reason on how he thought the read was better than his. Also, he is trying to eat the low hanging fruit. I don't think town needs to do any of this, so I am writing him off as scum. Who is the 'high hanging fruit' that he's hold be going for? Ad again if poofter is so easy to lynch, why hasn't he been lynched so far, especially considering how hard H f pushed for him? And as far as people flinging shit at you, where do I fit in? | ||
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His D1 was pretty iirc but I can't remember anything he's done since then. No giant cases, no monster logic thrown around, all things GK is known for. I think I called him out for something like this earlier in the game but I can't remember what his respond was. I won't get a chance to filter dive before deadline either | ||
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On August 11 2014 03:08 HaruRH wrote: pooft is easy to lynch, he is technically getting lynched now, yea? Not high hanging fruit, but he shouldn't be content with 'yea obi/pooft/haru the afkers are scum gg game over' you're a high class shit flinger Alright I follow that I don't follow the high class thing tho | ||
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On August 11 2014 03:11 HaruRH wrote: You're not flinging shit just because you're trying to escape playing the game unlike some low class shit flingers so technically you're middle class, but i put you as high class since i want you to feel better than gobble, who should be sorry for calling me scum 24/7 ugh the tone of this post IS really friggin townie. ughhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh On August 11 2014 03:17 Eden1892 wrote: FIVE HUNDRED POSTS BITCHES Why are you doing this eden ALso I'm super fucking paranoid of hf right now I kind of just want to be on the opposite lynch from him I feel like this whole game has been set up precisely how he wanted it excewpt GK parked his vote and fucked off all day eden you are absolutely the only one i am sure of right now | ||
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On August 11 2014 04:23 Holyflare wrote: Cav super afraid their mafia plan of mega bussing is falling through. pls the only person dumb enough to megabus for no reason is you Cav actually seems more town lately | ||
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On August 11 2014 04:33 Eden1892 wrote: Suck yourself off some more lmao It really isn't, and your insistence on bad arguments for lynches that look good worries me lol fucking eden i wanted to say somthing like this ARE YOU TEMPOTING ME TO LYNCH HF | ||
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On August 11 2014 04:56 Holyflare wrote: Like you have to consolidate onto gd for tbe double lynch to happen lol and if poofter does some scum last minute vote/return we switch I can't lst minute do shuit so if I'm parking my votew then somebody better direct me I hate this shit Also I hate GKs return | ||
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On August 11 2014 05:43 Tehpoofter wrote: Its fine you won't win the belt that way unless you're mafia but you can do what you want. I don't have a good defense. Which sucks will be my first ever misslynch as town. :/ I won't just let you do it either and you might as well get your post ready that says "Well this dude was afk so much like a donkey his own fault for dying" Actually I'll make it for you: Poofter was town!?!?!?!!? WOWOW what an idiot for being so afk we're so screwed now! Cause you honestly can't say you read me mafia from the interactions that we've had everytime youve gone to switch to me you've read me town and moved on. You know I'm town but want to punish me which is fine I didn't play well just be honest about why your'e doing it. You don't HONESTLY think I'm mafia be clear about that. This reads retty familiarly Sounds like something you'd say hf | ||
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Makes me feel better about YOU though | ||
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##vote: gobbledydook | ||
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Sorry | ||
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On August 11 2014 06:47 Holyflare wrote: wave is there no way you can look at your phone like 10 minutes before deadline? excuse yourself for a shit or something Fucking hell No promises it depends on timing Might be done and driving home then | ||
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Am I changing | ||
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On July 30 2014 02:13 iamperfection wrote: Setup This is an open setup there are no blue rules and a 3 man scum team with kp fixed at 1. You will have to depend on your reasoning and logic skills to figure out the scum team + Show Spoiler + God Help Us town pm = You are town | ||
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Some really wonky shit went down around the lynch. On August 11 2014 07:56 Tehpoofter wrote: THATS WHAT I WAS TALKING TO YOU ABOUT LIKE 30 MINTUES AGO AND YOU SAID "Nice try" or some bullshit. This happened, and then everybody switches. On August 11 2014 07:59 Holyflare wrote: who says they are aligned with town lol rather than just town Is this really the shit you toss in when you're trying to lynch people? I have to reread this whole thread or some shit and I ahve no time to do it. | ||
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On August 11 2014 09:07 Holyflare wrote: it's pretty simple i thought jat and gk forced a no lynch so i switched What? What does that have to do with what I just said? You're not the only one who switched. Hell, you weren't even the first to. | ||
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Everybody jumps on while he's freaking the fuck out (not exactly alignment indicative I suppose, ok) AND after he offers conclusive counter-evidence to people's problems with him. | ||
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Of course you could be lying as well, but I'm curious as to why JAT and GK switched. | ||
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On August 11 2014 09:23 Holyflare wrote: and they switched because they thought the poofter wagon was more pure Where do they say that? The bussing thing? | ||
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On August 11 2014 09:41 Eden1892 wrote: Are you motherfuckers retarded? Everyone voted and there were two candidates. It's not possible not to have a majority, dumbshits! And what does that mean to you? Also somebody answer me about this: On August 11 2014 09:28 WaveofShadow wrote: But then why did nobody listen to Poofter when he mentioned that earlier? I think that's HF and JAT. Also GK disappears right as Poofter shows up and then posts this awful business during the scramble On August 11 2014 06:59 goodkarma wrote: I haven't looked at this game in quite a while. Like I got sick of sifting through 10+ page filters full of mostly shit and decided to just give it a break and sheep people I had pegged as most likely town. Without Eden here voting Poof doesn't really make sense. We'd need LITERALLY EVERY TOWNIE to follow, and I don't think that's very likely given our time constraints. Literally everyone on the Poof wagon I have misgivings about right now, so there's that too. On August 11 2014 07:02 goodkarma wrote: It's worth noting that while I don't feel good about Poof still, that he'd spend way more effort on one game than the other and possibly be town in both isn't that unrealistic to me. I remember bunnies doing something similar and getting mislynched for it D1 a few games back. And this earlier on in the day. On August 10 2014 10:50 goodkarma wrote: I don't remember this 24 hour day thing... Was this a decision the host ninja'ed after the fact? I see OP was edited today... Poofter/Goob at least one is probably scum. Poofter's filter is 90%+ shitposts and I'm tired of reading it. ##Vote: Poofter #Choices For a guy who admits that all he wanted to do was sheep he sure spends a lot of time explaining and hedging his bets. I DUN LIKE IT | ||
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sorry dood <3 There are better reasons to think HF is scum than what you've commented on---once again no one has bothered to glance at the details of my earlier case on HF. I would think if you really want to get him lynched you'd be coming up with more than association-based reads, which are by definition, weak. | ||
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Like...Haru really isn't super towny in any way. The mathematical analysis of GKs filters is really weird and ignores any potential circumstantial or style-based reasons for posting more or less. It's all coming across is pretty forced and I don't know what to make of that. | ||
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On August 11 2014 12:07 Holyflare wrote: Eden i know you're mafia btw wtf is this? On August 11 2014 12:08 Eden1892 wrote: My case on Holyflare has more than association reads... in fact the strongest point has nothing to do with associations at all. Hell, where do they rely on associations? I'm pretty sure my case is built on the confidence-accuracy discrepancy (best way to summarize it) and nightkill analysis. Cases on JAT and goodkarma are in fact primarily associations which isn't great until the dominoes start falling, but that's okay because Holyflare is the first domino and my case on him isn't built on them. Link your case on Holyflare again? Or I'll pull it up in your filter. Might help reinforce my read and/or persuade others. Anything we can get! And this is flat out untrue---a great deal of the NK analysis you did is based on association. Talking about who kush wanted dead---association. The strongest point isn't particularly strong, that's all. 'He's still alive' isn't reason enough for me to want to lynch him solely based on that. If you want to see some research and effort put into cases, go look up some of the stuff Foolishness has done. He may not always be right (lol in fact in my experience he's wrong quite a bit) but the cases he writes up bring out a lot of in-thread evidence as well as meta as well as potential association. Multi-faceted and brilliant at times, and often very convincing. This one, not so much. Show me how Haru is all of a sudden super town exactly. Some of his posts today I admit had townie vibes to them, but what HF said about him is completely true. He showed up, promised a whole bunch of shit and then did DICK ALL. What is towny about that? Does it look like he actually cared about the lynch from what he posted? I know we're supposed to be re-evaluating everything right now but this HF v Eden shit is wigging me out for some reason. | ||
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http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/463513-world-heavyweight-championship-mafia-iii?page=153#3056 | ||
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On August 11 2014 12:07 Holyflare wrote: Eden i know you're mafia btw Honestly if Eden is mafia he must be pulling some serious HF-before everyone-knew-he-was-real-good-at-scum-level shit. I'm not sure what you're basing this on. In fact, I'm pretty sure you're lying. | ||
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When you have suspicions of me you're constantly voicing them. | ||
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On August 11 2014 12:23 ObiWanShinobi wrote: Again, I'm still voting you and you don't seem to give a shit. And I'm blatantly not even reading the thread right now. Who are you even talking to Cav? And it's night. | ||
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Oh fuck you you KNOW I hate this shit. Fine I'm leaving for now. | ||
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On August 11 2014 12:27 Holyflare wrote: Don't leave i actually stayed up to talk to you because i think you are town now Then I don't wnt any of this smoke and mirrors horseshit. I'm actually pretty surprised at myself that I caught on earlier. If you want to talk to me then talk. | ||
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On August 11 2014 12:27 Eden1892 wrote: We're clearly operating under different definitions of "association." I've never heard "dead townie wanted X dead" referenced as an "association" argument. I also don't think it's terrible, and I've already explained why I don't think so. The strongest point is the confidence-accuracy discrepancy as I've already said. Please comment on that? Your summary of my argument as "he's alive" is really inaccurate and I'm honestly not sure how you got that out of it. RE: Haru I'll go reread his day today and see what I think, I remember the tone of his posts was that confident, sorta-pissed Haru that I was expecting to see. There's also the argument (that I think I made in the big post? but I don't remember now LOL I'll have to check) that Haru got scumread by too many people d1 to be mafia. With the way the thread was going and how many viable targets were available it's just hard to believe that we managed to consolidate onto a mafia. Although tbh if anything that also points to Holyflare if Haru is mafia, since he led a last-minute lynch on not-Haru. I think Haru's town so I didn't mention that earlier, but Haru/Holyflare scumteam also works from what I can recall (will have to reread and see though). Holyflare has no reason to be alive right now. He was the only "townie" who had any direction on day 1 and organized a last-minute lynch, and kush got nightkilled instead of him. Kush was obvious town, but Holyflare was generally in the town pile for everyone too, and unlike kush Holyflare was a direct threat to get people lynched. Then marv gets killed last night, and while marv was also in everyone's town pile (and Holyflare wasn't as much anymore), marv had been straight up wrong on both lynches and Adkins out the whole night. The one time he really took charge and showed direction he was off. This kill makes some sense to me over Holyflare but not really; I feel like if we assume Holyflare is town he's played a better game than marv. In any case he's going to survive tonight while I, a townie who until this point had no meaningful direction in the thread, die. And that's not going to make sense, and if I don't say something now people will go "oh, no surprise there, Eden was obvtown, Holyflare lemme sheep u 2 victory" and we'll lose. If this is what you mean by the discrepancy then it really just does boil down to 'he's still alive.' Maybe you look into it more because you're not as used to playing with HF as I am, but HF is a very VERY good player. As is marv. Many people mentioned this all game, but when players like tham are still alive after some period of time, one begins to question why. Obviously if HF is scum and pushing lynches and being wrong then there's going to be a discrepancy. As for marv's townread on Haru, I didn't like it at the time and I still don't. Marv essentially assumes (and so do you) that because a shit ton of people wanted him dead he must be town. This is false for two possible reaspons: a) He assumes that because such a large number are pushing Haru they must be wrong that early in the game. b) He assumes that scum won't bus. HF is once again an excellent example of why that is simply untrue. | ||
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On August 11 2014 12:31 Holyflare wrote: I'm in a dilemma where i have too many town reads because i think gobble might be town based on crazy amounts of afk stacked lynching Who are your strongest townreads at this point? I see your problem I suppose, but then again I find that a lot of the reasons people have for townreading others in this game have been pretty damn weak. | ||
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On August 11 2014 12:37 Eden1892 wrote: I swear to God I addressed this, I know I was typing a reply to it at some point and I'm gonna be mad if I never actually sent it b/c I was busy irl at the time. This strikes me as a terribly unproductive attempt to push the scum agenda. In a 3-person game, two of them just intermittently check in, don't do anything to solve the game state, look involved or push discussion, but instead just talk loudly about killing each other without actually making an effort to do so, all in the hopes that someone comes through, kills one of them and townreads the other for it? It isn't impossible looking strictly at the "tactics" so to speak - the arguments they were employing, the degree to which they were pushing the lynch - but it doesn't paint a coherent "strategic" picture for a scumteam. There's one guy trying to mislead the whole town in a game where the mafia have to force four mislynches to win? It just doesn't make sense. It's not impossible, but again you were so sure that was a bus and refused to even consider another angle. The confidence you had in them being scum busing from the start was significantly disproportionate to the level of certainty I would expect a townie to have in that argument. And then as it turns out... nope, not busing at all. lol Bussing is both way more simple than what you're describing and way more complicated. The bolded rings fairly true, however. | ||
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Townreads I understand: Eden, JAT, (me? I still think your trap was weak and reading people based on it is meh but whatevs), gobble (sorta---this is one of those things that I never went back and truly thought about when Poofter/GK mentioned it...is there some sort of way with the voting patterns that GD could still be scum? that worries me) Don't understand townread on GK, and Cav I just dunno. | ||
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On August 11 2014 12:45 Eden1892 wrote: I would hope! Give the paragraph I linked a reread, I made this argument initially and I think you missed it? I also brought this up back during n1 when kush was around I didn't miss it but I suppose I didn't think it's what you meant was the strongest of your arguments? I agree there is some merit to it, but what other examples of this do you have? Can you link the N1 post? Have you read my case yet? | ||
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I truly don't think I can ever play a game with an NA early evening time again. | ||
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On August 11 2014 12:49 Eden1892 wrote: Also Wave I read your case and yeah it's better than mine. Sorry I missed it earlier, I think I glazed over reading it last night because I was tired and forgot about it, so my bad. Excuses excuses but it's been a busy 24 hrs for me Sorry, not good enough. Like HF said, analysis. What about it is good? Are there problems with it? | ||
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On August 11 2014 12:50 Holyflare wrote: Jesus people can't read for shit You expect too much honestly. | ||
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![[image loading]](http://www.teenvogue.com/images/advice/2014-02/emoji-th.jpg) | ||
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Like the actual database that prp takes care of | ||
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On August 11 2014 13:00 Holyflare wrote: Also he doesn't look pressured to give reads or do anything but sheep who he thinks is right First of all when he sheeped today he way overjustified it, which I pointed out not too long ago. Secondly, sheeping is exactly what scum have been able to do freely all game, if you haven't noticed. Anyway I'll give Showdown a glance but it won't be right now. I'm gonna take a break. Eden, goes for you too, I'll read your examples a little later. If I'm not back in a little bit I will at least attempt to post some on lunch tomorrow or maybe phonepost (unlikely) if I get the chance. | ||
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On August 11 2014 13:16 goodkarma wrote: With this next lynch we're going to literally need unanimous townpile onto a scum wagon. The only way I really see that happening is /sheeping. Time would be well spent deciding how we're going to achieve a unanimous decision. Ideally a town leader and/or primary lynch target can be named by whoever dies tonight via a last minute before deadline ninjapost. Everyone with any chance of dying should make something like this... There's a few ways to implement this this is how I'd do it. Whatever we do tho we need to establish /towncircle and force sheeping. There's not room for error anymore. Goodnight and good luck. ^^^^^ SCUMPILE. | ||
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GK/Haru/HF right now. | ||
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Don't you worry. | ||
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On August 12 2014 10:46 Eden1892 wrote: COME ON MAN THIS A BIG DEAL WHERE YALL AT FUK Eden PLEASE stop spamming. Seriously. It makes your filter damn near impossible to read. Did you mean for it to be that way? | ||
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On August 12 2014 10:49 Eden1892 wrote: Nah. I'm just havin fun man. I got a lead! And I think it's actually pretty good. Don't you? Talk to me about it! I already noticed that. I need a little while to finish reading and post. | ||
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Fuck the team I'm taking this one at a time and I think I have a foolproof strategy. | ||
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I wrote out this big long thing about GK v Eden and none of it really works Huge long fucking story short, GK's return post telling us what to do was done in a HORRIBLE way despite the idea theoretically having some merit, and HF has planted a worm in my brain re: Eden who I have not questioned all game. Last time I never questioned someone all game they were HF who bussed someone right from D1 and won for his team. Cav remembers that game I bet. The question there becomes is Eden capable of monster-level scumplay. I feel like even though HF could be wrong here, one of Eden/GK is scum. I don't even know why I think that because I don't think it even has to be true. Like just so much terrible shit. Eden you are not confirmed town because you pushed HF before he died. The amount of effort you put in would be massively disproportionate to the reward you get of towncred by saying what you did, but it's not impossible; I've seen insane scum effort before. See austinmcc in PTP: Dr Who or HF in one of the previous Champions games (I don't know if Cultured mini counts for HF because he didn't have to put in that much effort to win imo, he just played insanely ballsy). If GK doesn't switch his vote at any point today and doesn't listen to reason he essentially forces our hand by making us all vote for him or Eden. I don't know what kind of scum OR townplay that is to be truly honest---the anger and ridiculousness feels more like town GK but the other times I've seen him get frustrated like this and martyr he put in WAY more effort than this pre- and post-breakdown. 'I'ma sheep this towny' is not effort. Playing to his meta maybe? Fucking HF why couldn't you have actually given me reasons for finding Eden scummy or not been a dick about keeping things secret last night? | ||
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Maybe this does point to Haru scum? | ||
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On August 12 2014 11:37 goodkarma wrote: You do realize that Eden's pretty tryhard as scum too right? Like that's a super-stupid metric. The guy can make ridiculously long and pointless posts as scum. Can post for pages and pages. Look at his scumgame filter. I'm sheeping HF and all town should too. Especially compelling reason: I'm town so if you don't we're sure to lose. Where's his scumgame. Put in some fucking EFFORT GK if you don't want this to be Les Mafia all over again | ||
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On August 12 2014 11:40 goodkarma wrote: It already is Les Mafia. Only difference is I gave you guys a method to consolidate this time, and you couldn't be fucking bothered to consider it. No, you gave us an ultimatum based on fucking NOTHING. All people have done this game is sheep townies on stupid shit, and look where it has gotten us. HF's one fucking line on Eden is no exception. If you force the town to policy lynch you then the game is on YOUR head, no matter how self-righteous you get about this. Back the fuck off, and use your brain. | ||
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On August 12 2014 11:41 goodkarma wrote: It's in the TL Database. You know where it is you already brought it up once this game. LOL I took a fucking 1 min glimpse at that game and Eden already looks townier in this one for it. Find me even CLOSE to the percentage of tryhard posts in that game versus this one. Eden in this game is WAY less uptight. It's pretty obvious actually. I can't tell if I want to vote you now or just assume you're both town and move on to Haru. | ||
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On August 12 2014 11:43 goodkarma wrote: If you give me some super-compelling case that person X is scum of course I'll consider it. To be honest tho I have way more faith in HF than anyone still in the game. Then if you have faith in HF WHY AREN'T YOU VOTING HARU LIKE HE FUCKING ASKED And for that matter why didn't you respond when called out about this earlier? | ||
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On August 12 2014 11:46 Eden1892 wrote: The stronger argument for my innocence isn't merely that the effort:payout doesn't make sense, it's the opportunity cost on top of it. As scum I could have not changed anything up and been similarly unquestioned without attracting Holyflare's ire. Considering that's (apparently?) the only reason that you're starting to mull it over now, I would submit that the strategy is plainly suboptimal. You're right that I'm not "confirmed" town but I really do think if I were in your shoes I would be hardcore townreading me and riding that to the end at this point. And considering Holyflare didn't scumread me at all before the night phase I think we can at least divine that his scumread on me comes from something I did during the night. Which is... push on him, mainly. Maybe that's it? It's my main theory at the moment, although I have a fun pet theory I just came up with: This is also an incredibly convenient explanation for me but it's something not beyond Holyflare's capacity and supported by his actions at the end when he finally did decide to post: What if Holyflare's "scumread" on me is fake? Notice how he spent the entirety of EoN arguing with Haru and trying to make some final arguments for him being scum, then he says "kill Haru tomorrow 100%." and then throws in a last-second "kill Eden ". The context makes it pretty clear that Haru was his primary scumread, not me. Holyflare has also been intermittently pushing Haru the whole game, and until that post (from what I recall) never outright scumread me. He wanted to on a couple of earlier occasions where I was on his case with kush, but he never did, the way he addressed me was clearly as though I were a townie. I'll go dig up the post(s) that gave me that impression if needed (but not right now leaving for trivia).Might end up x-posting but what are your thoughts on goodkarma ignoring Holyflare's actual final wishes to vote for me? And the case he made in trying to double down on it? The bolded is what I assumed he was doing last night and told him to fucking stop, but then why throw it out right before he dies? That is not something you troll town with. Surely you realize that. | ||
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Guy has done absolutely dick all the entire game. I don't even remember what my case on him D1 said but I bet it still stands. Marv's townread of him was shit. He had ONE period where his posts looked super towny at some point yesterday, but then he fucked off and did nothing again. GK, you don't get off the hook here. First of all I know I told you to back down, but now that you are I've decided it looks shitty to me. On August 12 2014 11:53 goodkarma wrote: Oh right before that post my bad. Kinda contradictory. Are you honestly telling me you didn't see that? Second of all, @Wave, the only remotely reasonable guy in thread: blatant buddying. Not in the mood to be buddied right now since I can't even trust Eden anymore. And I just remembered, what about JAT? What has that guy done the entire game? Too many shitty looking people. Even the ones who have decent reason to be town like GD. | ||
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Should have lynched this guy D1. | ||
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On August 12 2014 12:06 goodkarma wrote: I'm honestly telling you I didn't see it. I'm sure we'll have a good laugh about it post-game, before I request TL ban. Also, you're not my buddy pal. But I need people in here I can actually talk to to advance the thread. People plugging their ears going "neener neener you scum" are not exactly going to be people I can hold meaningful conversations with. You never gave people a chance, you rage out way too easily. Of course people who think you're scum are going to have some form of superiority complex and lord their shit over you, welcome to the game of mafia! Are you new here? It happens every game. It's up to you to cure them of their misconceptions and coddle the shit out of them until they believe you. There's a reason why I don't ever get lynched, GK. You actually have to put up a fight, not go 'oh woe is me everyone here is stupid but me gg all' Now for lack of better judgement, for now I think you're likely town because I've seen you do this stupid shit before. Look where it got you. Fix it, because if you don't my townread doesn't last. | ||
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COME AT ME SCUMMERS | ||
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On August 12 2014 12:22 Eden1892 wrote: Literally my sentiment right now You asked about JAT - dude proposed Haru/gk/Obi scum team before it was cool. Simulposted with me a couple times. I'm ride or die with him right now Eden what have you accomplished in this game? I'm curious. | ||
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On August 12 2014 12:26 goodkarma wrote: lol u. I've done plenty on my return. I've been far from graceful, but you know what learn to deal with it. I'm not unaccustomed to people acting stupidly but coddle them I will not. I've explained my position there's literally nothing more to do than to catch literally three scum in succession. Only problem with that: no one can be bothered to decide how we'll consolidate. I'm only consolidating on HF candidates. Will only consider Eden and Haru. Since we literally lose if any of our lynches are wrong I suppose it isn't terrible to have two HF-proposed wagons. He was the most competent guy left anyway. This. This is what makes me want to reach through the computer and slap you. Why do we have to DECIDE how we consolidate? Have we had problems consolidating thus far? Was it the fucking unanimous mislynch of Onegu where he had problems consolidating? Stop talking out your ass. It's LYLO. We will consolidate once we find a solid lynch target just as we did every other day. Pre-choosing based on the fact that HF was town gets us absolutely nowhere. Why didn't we just pre-choose all of kush's reads at the start of the game to get us to our Onegu mislynch? lol who was kush's third scumread? Should we all pile on that person too? | ||
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At least he has the decency to admit it. You haven't done anything useful, in fact unlike Eden you are being COUNTERPRODUCTIVE, and you have the cohones to cast all blame from your vicinity and throw the game to the winds of chance. I have been shit this game, I will admit that. My activity has been far below what I normally like, and even when I have been around I have not gotten anything accomplished. I am doing what I can to change that. You are not. | ||
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On August 12 2014 12:31 Eden1892 wrote: Not really, my theory that you two are both scum looks hella good right now What does GK gain as scum by acting in this way Eden? | ||
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On August 12 2014 12:41 goodkarma wrote: @Gobble: I would disagree. Sheeping grabs tons of attentions for the reasons you've cited. For a disciple of Palmar you could sure do better using his suggestions in context. Actually I disagree. It depends entirely on the context of the sheep, who you're sheeping, why, etc. For example some of the time you can get away with sheeping for no reason while other times if you don't provide a reason you get torn apart. GD, (I think it was in this game that) marv said something along the lines of knowing when to sheep and when not to is important for town (or townie, or something). DO you believe GK deliberately chose to sheep badly or did what a great deal of other townies have done in this game and simply fucked up? Can you prove it either way? GK. Is Eden scum? | ||
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On August 12 2014 12:45 gobbledydook wrote: Literally the point of sheeping is to not have to make a long ass post describing why the wagon you're on is scum. Long posts are harder to hide than short sheep posts. I don't see how sheeping is *more* noticeable than making actual cases. Please try again. This entire post is wrong. You try again. | ||
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On August 12 2014 12:47 goodkarma wrote: Like honestly who has done much this game at this point? What would you quantify as productive? We've collectively sheeped Marv days 1/2 and most of us have concluded that Poof/GD was a meaningless town/town bandwagon choice. The person we've sheeped is dead, and lynch three didn't tell much as far as I can see. Scum literally didn't have to do much of anything this game... So how does one find scum motivated behavior when scum didn't literally have to do anything? Quite a quandary. And if you want to mislynch me and end the game that's your choice. I would love to be more helpful but honestly I'm a bit stymied. I trust confirmedtown dead HF far more than I trust any of you right now. So who you want to lynch: Eden or Haru? I am really tempted to get this town to force the lynch on you as you seem to want. I really don't appreciate play like this if you're town. At all. Reminds me of the kind of shit I've raged at Onegu and gumshoe about. Of course it's entirely possible you are scum in which case this is a big game of chicken for you. Hell it kind of is anyway regardless of your alignment. Policy lynching in this game may have cost us already (ie Vivax) and doing it at LYLO is horrible but the fact that you're taking the fun out of this game for me and many other people I imagine by forcing their hands is truly dishonourable. | ||
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Maybe I let it go for now and we see later. I could be wrong. I want a weigh in from your butt-buddy JAT and Cav as well. Like I want GK out of my game now, and I'd rather it be because he is scum. | ||
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A) There are multiple reasons to sheep. One is because of what you said, laziness. Another is because you simply don't know what to do and trust someone. B) Long posts are not harder to hide at all. Look at my case on Haru. Want to go back and see how many people commented on it or me when I posted it? Now if marv wasn't all marv-y and arrogant I would certainly imagine having the entire town jump aboard his lynch would set off some alarm bells. Sheeping certainly does grab attention at times, and doesn't in others. It's entirely based on context. | ||
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GK. Go. | ||
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GD confirmed town. Now to read the rest of his post | ||
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On August 12 2014 13:13 gobbledydook wrote: So WoS I have 3 basically confirmed towns in my mind who are alive, which is me, you and eden. None of you nor me shept extensively. vivax didn't sheep, onegu didn't get to sheep before he died, artanis shept once and then got replaced. poofter was hard scumreading me for most of the game, but he gave his reasons, definitely not deliberately sheeping. Everyone who is confirmed town shept once. But there's only one person who has been sheeping for 3 days in a row. Once? Fucked up. Three times? Doing it on purpose. SO what you're saying then is he is scum for sheeping onto the wrong wagon three times, correct? Is he the only one who did so? | ||
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I'm checking this myself. | ||
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Did JAT have reasons for his votes? GOod ones? Did Cav and HF? Did Haru (he's technically wrong 3 times assuming you're town)? | ||
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On August 12 2014 13:36 Eden1892 wrote: Game is suddenly not hard, tybg Cannot imagine JAT just deciding to scum read 2/3 of his team before LYLO when he did LYLO policy lynch people who aren't trying so OP What? | ||
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Haru your play is unforgivable, kynching you isn't Posting 3 things at LYLO when you're about to be luynched and ten fucking off doesn't show anyone you care Do something or die | ||
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On August 13 2014 00:06 Eden1892 wrote: Wave are you down with the Eden/Wave/Gobble/JAT NWO? Please say yes so I can go shamelessly apeshit with joy over solving this enigma of a game Down? No. I absolutely do not trust anyone right now and it weirds me out slightly that that is what you're constantly looking for. Trust hasn't gotten us very far in this game. | ||
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Just fantastic when we have a lynch in 5h well if harus scum he can not vote all he wants | ||
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Knowing where your vote lies. | ||
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This is either super typical scum, or something is wrong. I'm getting the willies. GK/JAT/Obi switches...I mean I know it's what we need but why take so long when it's been what was pushed pretty much all day? Scum defending scum by not voting? Simply late to the party? Somebody reassure me that haru is scum and not just not playing the game. Do it. | ||
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On August 13 2014 04:03 justanothertownie wrote: Well, he is definitely being bussed right now if he is scum. But since obi and gk have no influence they kinda have to I guess? Did GK have to? he could have just sat his ass pretty on Eden all day but instead he goes all half-apologetic. I mean Obi basically did 'cause I forced him but GK wasn't being forced as everyone saw last night. And what took you so damn long to vote? Remind me where you mention haru again? | ||
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On August 13 2014 04:04 ObiWanShinobi wrote: People have been paranoid of the Haru lynch since forever but the only other person I'm willing to lynch right now is Jat, maybe goodkarma for his shitty "I townread Eden now for no reason" post. Oh shit. mind meld with Cav Don't know if like. | ||
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On August 13 2014 04:07 justanothertownie wrote: Well everyones vote is on Haru. To me that indicates that he is being bussed if he is scum. But what do I know I mean I obviously am borderline retarded. I was about to yell at you for saying 'to me that indicates' and then i realized sarcasm. | ||
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On August 13 2014 04:08 justanothertownie wrote: I mentioned Haru all the time? Look at my filter. Look at what I wrote last night. I seem to recall what you wrote last night being some sort of shitty catch-up. I know somebody commented on shitty catchups earlier in the thread and I defended them but yours was real shitty. You didn't comment on anything relevant as I recall. | ||
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On August 13 2014 04:09 justanothertownie wrote: We need Eden here. Why? | ||
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Also doesn't change the fact that shitty catchup is shitty. Wanna comment on that? | ||
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And it was super shitty I'm going to tear that shit apart when I have more time after we lynch scum | ||
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On August 13 2014 05:38 Eden1892 wrote: Ironically Wave the only person out of my town group I'm worried about is you. Put simply I don't get the following: • The mistrust. I don't feel like any of me/gobble/JAT are hard to trust as town reads right now. • The lack of reads. I don't know where your mind is at right now and it's alarming. • The (relative) absenteeism. Where you been brah? • The hesitance on Haru (although this mostly paranoia from the second bullet) I'm trying very hard not to snap at you right now. I don't give a shit who you have as super towny town right now. The fact remains that even the best players have fucked up majorly in this game so I'm not discounting anyone or anything. That goes for lack of reads too. Right now I'm still fine with Haru and that's good enough. PoE based on most to least towny imo gives me something like Obi and one of JAT/gobble GK but I can't and won't decide on them right now. Absenteeism? You must be fucking joking. You question me over this and yet gobble is super high on a towny pedestal? And on top of that, I have made it completely clear that aside from my usual activity at nights, daytimes are TERRIBLE for me. I had to fucking bargain with my wife to get a couple hours free after getting home from work so I could try to not lose the game for one LYLO. Doubt I'll be able to do it again. THAT shit pisses me off. Absenteeism. Fuck you. And hesitance on haru? I won't even respond to that. | ||
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On August 13 2014 06:31 Eden1892 wrote: Gobble been hella active and useful this turn. Not absenteeism. Please don't get mad Wave, just calmly reread the thread since LYLO started and please tell me that you objectively think that since LYLO you've been decidedly more active and open with your reads than gobble and JAT. From my standpoint you haven't been, which is where my worry comes from. Sorry that EODs are bad for you. I don't care about what you think of my LYLO play, to be frank. I HAVE been more active than gobble, first of all if you would simply check filters, and as far as open with reads, I'm sorry that trying to figure shit out so that I can HAVE solid reads isn't good enough for you. Go ahead and worry, Eden. I'll just find the rest of the scumteam and you can pretend you helped, k? | ||
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YOU HAVENT DONE ANYTHING | ||
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On August 13 2014 06:49 Eden1892 wrote: Sooo many questions from these posts in so little time rofl @Wave: You really gonna try to bluff? Lol. Pls dude I've been busting my fuckin ass all day - shit, all game, although I really dialed it up in the past 48 hrs - trying to figure this out. You can't seriously say that I'm in "pretend to have helped" territory right now. Save the ego BS and tell me what reads you have, IDC if they're not super solid I just want/need to know where your mind's at right now. You mentioned the reads by POE earlier, you got anything else? (if not that's actually totally ok POE is 100% valid at LYLO) @Haru no I gotta tell ya bro it's actually nothing like Melee Mini. For one you don't have a second head just shitting town all over the place, for another you were around more from what I recall and were more engaged in the thread. Where's the followthrough on any of the posts you made brah? @anybody did Obi really say he was sheeping his town reads? Lol missed that. Obi can you post those town reads for me as I am stupid I don't seriously mean you haven't helped but the fact that you have the audacity to insinuate that i haven't done enough because I haven't been constantly posting and updating my three people every 5 minutes like you is ridiculous. My reads are: GK was probably town and then he came back and looked like shit when he switched onto Haru so now I don't know. If he's playing to his ragey town meta then he did a damn good job. You're likely town but HF's deathpost is going to fuck with me if the game moves on, because that means he (and I) were right about Haru so he obviously had good reason to post that we should kill you as well. I just wish he wasn't a dumbass and would have posted why. I have no idea what's going on with JAT and Obi right now. Despite their posting I can't say I have good reason to take a stance on either right now. Jat hasn't impressed me a great deal this game, no idea why you have him as supertown. Cav is abrasive and not particularly useful. Not as bad as GK but not memorable either. GD. ??? | ||
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On August 13 2014 07:00 ObiWanShinobi wrote: He has Jat as supertown because of the votes analysis that you said you hated. I didn't hate the vote analysis, it was his catchup post I said I hated. I thought they were the same thing and they weren't. Are we really doing this? | ||
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Cause he hasn't done shitnfor me | ||
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On August 13 2014 07:02 justanothertownie wrote: Come on Wave you know Obi is scum. Just look at the shit he is spouting right now. Break it down for me, because I can honestly say I haven't been paying much attention to your shitfest right now BECAUSE I THOUGHT WE WERE LYNCHING HARU | ||
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##unvote ##vote: ObiWanShinobi You all had better stick around because I don't think we can move back anymore unless everyone's here | ||
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On August 13 2014 07:07 justanothertownie wrote: Ok, it is really easy. Open Obis filter. Look at the posts he made since the beginning of the day. Realize that there is no way this is a townie in LYLO. Make it easier. WHY | ||
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On August 13 2014 07:10 LoneMeow wrote: Counting of votes: Eden1892 (0): ObiWanShinobi (5): Eden1892, goodkarma (0): HaruRH (2): With 7 alive it takes 4 to lynch. Deadline is Tuesday, Aug 12 11:00pm GMT (GMT+00:00) (in ). + Show Spoiler [Vote counter log] + VOTE: goodkarma voted Eden (Eden1892) (post) VOTE: Eden1892 voted goodkarma (post) VOTE: gobbledydook voted Goodkarma (goodkarma) (post) VOTE: WaveofShadow voted HaruRH (post) VOTE: Eden1892 unvoted goodkarma (post) VOTE: Eden1892 voted HaruRH (post) VOTE: ObiWanShinobi voted eden (Eden1892) (post) VOTE: ObiWanShinobi unvoted Eden1892 (post) VOTE: gobbledydook unvoted goodkarma (post) VOTE: gobbledydook voted HaruRH (post) VOTE: ObiWanShinobi voted haru (HaruRH) (post) VOTE: goodkarma unvoted Eden1892 (post) VOTE: goodkarma voted Haru (HaruRH) (post) VOTE: justanothertownie voted HaruRH (post) VOTE: Eden1892 unvoted HaruRH (post) VOTE: Eden1892 voted ObiWanShinobi (post) WARNING: HaruRH unvoted without vote (post) VOTE: HaruRH voted OObiWaShinobi (ObiWanShinobi) (post) VOTE: HaruRH unvoted ObiWanShinobi (post) VOTE: HaruRH voted ObiWanShinobi (post) VOTE: justanothertownie unvoted HaruRH (post) VOTE: justanothertownie voted ObiWanShinobi (post) VOTE: gobbledydook unvoted HaruRH (post) VOTE: gobbledydook voted obiwanshinobi (ObiWanShinobi) (post) VOTE: WaveofShadow unvoted HaruRH (post) VOTE: WaveofShadow voted ObiWanShinobi (post) This is actually kind of interesting...random-ass vote analysis and doesn't mean much but in my experience scum are most likely to join a wagon after 1/2 position because it looks 'safe' | ||
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Implicates Obi/GK and sort of GD, while the current wagon implicates JAT/GD/me. I think the more conclusive evidence is the Haru wagon for the above reason, but then that means Haru would have to be town for it to work. | ||
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On August 13 2014 07:22 ObiWanShinobi wrote: *Extremely flimsy vote switching. *Mass voteswitches. *Zero resistance to any of the switches. Yep. Definitely both mafia. 10/10 ggnore See the problem with what you're insinuating here is that mafia wouldn't bus and would try to resist. Do you know how difficult it is not to bus at LYLO as scum? Especially if you don't want to implicate yourself to survive to try to win on later days. | ||
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On August 13 2014 07:23 justanothertownie wrote: Eden = town but Obi still voted him earlier. gk and Haru both NULL. ROFL. imo the wrose thing about this is he somehow decided the reasoning for Eden to be town NOW when nothing has changed since the time he was voting him. Hmm. Things might actually be looking good. | ||
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So the point is everything you supposedly suspected Eden for is completely moot because of stuff you could have figured out before you even started suspecting him. | ||
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On August 13 2014 07:33 ObiWanShinobi wrote: Idgi. Like I thought I had something when he scumread me all of a sudden, but then I realized that it was a stretch and I was nitpicking. I don't understand how reading him as town now for things I could've read him as town for before makes anything different at all. Because it's a very obvious 'realization' that you should have had knowledge of before. It would be one thing if something Eden did during that time opened your eyes, but the way you did it looks like scum backing down because he realized it wasn't going anywhere. | ||
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Town or scum? | ||
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On August 13 2014 07:38 ObiWanShinobi wrote: FUCKING WHY DO YOU HONESTLY BELIEVE THE ENTIRE SCUMTEAM IS BUSSING ME RIGHT NOW BECAUSE THAT'S SO UNBELIEVABLY UNLIKELY. lol of course they're not all bussing you if GK is scum | ||
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![[image loading]](http://jameskennedy.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/flawless-victory-my-victory-it-is-f.jpg) | ||
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I've been on two Championship scumteams now | ||
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HF how could you believe my monster case on you was genuine? I was struggling SO hard to come with random shit | ||
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On August 13 2014 08:03 Holyflare wrote: it's not a fucking secret or trap and it wasn't retarded. I posted nothing at night because if i died then a high profile towny would be mafia (eden because he went balls to the wall attacking me for shit) It was absolutely impossible for eden to be scum. | ||
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we didnt have to do anything for the first 2 days | ||
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I dunno waht they are offhand though lol wow obs qt was also spectacularly wrong. Did we actually play that well? 'Cause I honestly didn't think so. | ||
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On August 13 2014 08:08 iamperfection wrote: i thought you picked it up quite well the last 2 cycles Yeah I guess once we had to we did. Oh well I will be satisfied with two belt assists. This deadline is absolutely brutal for me though. I can;t play any more games with an evening deadline like this. | ||
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On August 13 2014 08:10 Holyflare wrote: man my wave meta was on point! No, marv's was on point. Yours was still sorta wrong, I did that shit ALL the time as town, it just so happen you have a very recent mafia game to look at. And again, I still absolutely love playing scum. I gotta find that marv post. Scared the shit out of me. | ||
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On August 13 2014 08:11 goodkarma wrote: And GG to scum. Wave played especially well. Literally just posting more than some townies and maintaining some semblance of activity is enough to win games like this. Sad but true. GK I'm sorry. I took advantage of your ragey meta a little. I was simultaneously hoping you would and wouldn't rage out Also Onegu <3 Your messages to me before you got lynched broke my heart a little | ||
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On August 13 2014 08:12 Holyflare wrote: no i looked at the past 10 of your games and none of them said the same thing that you did here in the way that you said it eh, I'll go back and look myself late when I have the time. It's entirely possible the way the post was constructed was exactly like that in which case whoops, but I know I complain when rolling town all the time. LOL at one point I almost EXACTLY copied a post-death post from another game. If I had posted it and anybody found it I would have been lynched in a hardbeat meta is real | ||
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On August 13 2014 08:14 Holyflare wrote: nk'ing me was the best call Of course it was. NKing marv when we did was too because he would have caught on. I have no idea who we would have NKed tonight though | ||
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WaveofShadow
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On August 13 2014 08:15 justanothertownie wrote: Yes it was. I would not dare to post like I did in LYLO if you are alive. Your day1 was scary too you immediately called out Wave AND Haru. Yeah we shat ourselves a little | ||
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WaveofShadow
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I HAVE A TASTE OF VICTORY but bad deadlines Artanis change the deadline time of Cell, k? | ||
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On August 04 2014 20:37 marvellosity wrote: Wave's feels are always wrong. Or he's mafia. This. Shat myself. | ||
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On August 13 2014 08:30 Eden1892 wrote: Next time Haru! Man I'm not even kidding, at the apex of my brief mad at Wave earlier I thought to myself "what if he's talking about how easy this is because he and Haru are scumbuddies and he thinks he can save his partner and avoid a bus?" and my next thought was "no Simon that's fucking retarded what are you even thinking stop tinfoiling" Well me and JAT basically made sure to stay completely add odds all game so I had to try to push somewhere so JAT could pull somewhere else. | ||
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WaveofShadow
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I actually dropped so many hints I cant remember where they all are | ||
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KUSH WE KILLED YOU FIRST /respect | ||
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WaveofShadow
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On August 13 2014 08:40 justanothertownie wrote: Well, you told marv you would keep not fear killing him. You told someone that we don't need help deciding the nightkill.... :D Reading the obs warms my soul. lol thats cheating you knew about those and yeah i cant believe we fooled basically everyone | ||
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WaveofShadow
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On August 14 2014 01:39 Holyflare wrote: I don't think you need to push more that's for sure You pushed nothing but me over and over again and it made it hard to kind of get on track to do other things just to disprove every bit of confirmation bias, I mean the best way to look at it is to see who is pushing things that make sense and knows what's going on in the game and who is sitting back and posting things that make no sense whatsoever: i.e. Wave when he returned calling me out for sheeping (when i didn't) and haru pushing gobble with nothing scummy in his push etc. I dunno, it just comes from experience I guess because at lylo the entire scum team suddenly had massive amounts of free time on a weekday when they've been "busy" the whole game and started pushing a massive agenda to get one player lynched instead of looking analytically at everyone. I was actually busy for the record, I just managed to get time off for LYLO Also my cases against you were SO BAD I didn't even read the friggin thread when I posted that first one about you sheeping, then I had to go back and try to make it make at least some sense....good lord marv I am disappoint. I think that's three times I've beaten you :D | ||
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On August 14 2014 03:16 Eden1892 wrote: @Hf I think if I push other leads more I escape the tunnel on you. "Push more" means "push more leads" not "push my one lead harder" lol. I agree that I pushed you way too hard and pushing you further would be worse. @everyone: Is "kill people who don't try at LYLO" a good heuristic? Because I feel like rationally it is but empirically it may not be. I spelled out the logic in the thread and I think it holds, but obviously it was a flop this game and idk if it's a flop more generally The thing is, a great deal of the time 'rationally' doesn't apply here. | ||
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WaveofShadow
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On August 14 2014 05:00 raynpelikoneet wrote: People who do not play in LYLO should be mafia and therefore should be lynched. When you have absolutely no room for error everyone should do their best to help their team. If they do not play - they are not helping town. So yes Eden, your heuristic is imo correct and should be applied to LYLO situations because even if you sometimes go wrong knowing that not playing gets you lynched (really? lol ^^) maybe makes people want to try a bit more to not lose the game. VERY wishful thinking Rayn. you know hwo games here go a lot of the time. Speaking specifically about this game, many people were doing their best to help their team. Specifically, my team tried really hard. We had to be around and helping out to ensure one of our selected lynches would go through. Not playing is not a good heuristic imo. | ||
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WaveofShadow
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On August 14 2014 05:10 marvellosity wrote: Yes the little things - like moving off Haru on day 1 because Vivax pissed me off. It was so close to being different. And i listened to kush too much. actually i do respect his opinions but i had both gobbledy and holyflare as town early d1 and got swayed off those reads. You gotta stop going so YOLO, though I gotta say for the most part when you pull those kinds of lynches they go pretty well. I was pleasantly surprised at kush's play. he did really well and was crazy towny, but utterly and completely wrong about like EVERYTHING. Worked out really nicely for us | ||
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