Newbie Mini Mafia LVI - Page 14

On July 05 2014 13:22 Lord Tolkien wrote:

That would've been shot down since Templar claimed N1 roleblock and you claimed being jailed. One of you clearly lied about that then, and someone is bound to pick up on that.

But yes, town by D3 was in a complete clusterfuck situation. Then a stroke of luck saved it. Well more appropriately your WTF cop claim and subsequent demands for jailing.


Also: SO YOU THOUGHT I WAS BLUE? LOL

On July 05 2014 17:14 Amiko wrote:
GG guys!

I like discussing games after they finish up. I have more to write about, but here are some general thoughts I had while watching the game as a co-host. I'm still relatively new to forum mafia so I can be wrong or dumb on these things :D but they were what I thought as an observer, at least -

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All-Vanilla Setup
I don't know if Slam had any lessons in mind when he decided to use an all-vanilla setup, but I think having an all-vanilla game stressed the value of attentiveness and scumhunting. This town didn't have any cop checks or medic saves to rely on - in fact, town actually had to disbelieve every power role claim and successfully lynched mafia day 3, 4, and 5.

Mafia Fakeclaims
I give mafia credit for bravery in their elaborate power role claims, but I feel it was SO risky and I don't think it was so necessary. The mafia claims essentially implied that the game included a jailer (town), roleblocker (town or mafia), and eventually also that there was a cop (town).
First off, it poses problems if the actual blue roles are in the game. If there was a jailer in this game, wouldn't they tend to disbelieve the players claiming to be jailed (because 2 jailers seems so powerful!). Similarly, had there been a cop in the game, I feel they would have disbelieved HaruRH's claim (2 cops is wow!).
This isn't to say that fake-claiming is a bad thing, particularly if it reveals the actual blue role. But here, the mafia's fake claims seemed like they may be overexersions. The fake claims implied the existence of 3 roles, but, only the three mafia would ever fake-claim being affected by those roles. So the roleblock and jail must always affect HaruRH/Teemursu/The_Templar to be effective. If no roleblock is claimed, it would suggest to the (non-existent) jailor that he/she jailed the roleblocker. So, once one mafia fell, the claims of the other two should have become increasingly questionable

Claiming VT
I'll mention that although it worked to get Haru killed, I personally feel it is really a mistake to claim that you are a VT. Understand that this rarely provides any benefit to town (they can't trust you) but does provide benefit to mafia (they feel they shouldn't shoot you). Obviously you can be lying, but I feel that town tends to be more truthful about that sort of thing.
Imagine that you are a cop and someone else in town claims VT. What does this mean? Maybe that player is a lying mafia (and is trying to get other people to claim VT) so they can narrow down who to shoot. Maybe that player is a truthful town, but in that case they have narrowed down who mafia should shoot. From my point of view, claiming VT is just making it easier for the mafia to kill your blue roles, and usually it should be held back.
On this note, claiming VTs did help you identify HaruRH on D5, realize that this result was pretty much inevitable once The_Templar died. If we reached 3 players, no one would claim jailor and HaruRH would still die. I really don’t think mafia had any way to win after Templar died except by hoping town didn’t pay attention to the jailed claims.
That said, I think Haru’s best shot after Templar was lynched was to try to steer the discussion in some direction (any direction!) as soon as possible so that people didn’t think about the night actions. I think the slow pace may have encouraged town to be willing to easily claim VT.

Voting
The votes Day 2 were almost certainly going to lynch a town. Looking at the vote count, it would only take one vote to pick between five different wagons! And, there were quite a few outs for players to try to move their votes to survive, even for legitimate reasons! If there are five wagons and all only have 2-3 votes, and you know there are probably 3-4 you also know that mafia can control the vote.

It really is just lucky that Teemursu wasn’t able to get his vote in on D3. I don’t think that would have necessarily ensured a mafia victory, but if mafia had three votes to play with, I really think it would have been difficult for this town to consolidate properly.

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Things I haven't written yet but want to address-
> Some notes in the hostqt and obsqt for things to mention later
> Templar scumslip
> scum m373
> D4 vote and responses
> Coaching related notes (glowingbear)
> High scum activity; but not using town direction

On July 05 2014 19:42 marvellosity wrote:
mafia fakeclaims threw the game for mafia it seems, much as how town fakeclaims often throw the game for town.

On July 05 2014 22:47 The_Templar wrote:
Yes I fucked up.
Sorry.

On July 06 2014 03:36 Blazinghand wrote:
I did some great work coaching if anyone wants to read about what we talked about.

Blazinghand Coaching NydusHerMain http://www.quicktopic.com/50/H/KunfPNcGy8K
Blazinghand Coaching MysteryMeat1 http://www.quicktopic.com/50/H/rrFXBgfvddwE
Blazinghand Coaching Epishade http://www.quicktopic.com/50/H/RY7usYmxjwvy

Much props to my students for making effective use of me as a coaching resource!