On April 05 2014 04:35 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:Not just a defense, I have some thoughts I'd like to share as well. Show nested quote +On April 04 2014 21:45 Holyflare wrote:
well they make perfect sense seeing as 1 of the players is modconfirmed and the other one is modkilled
and... oh wait yeh rayn CLAIMED SCUM ~_~_~_~_~_~_~_ When did Steve become modconfirmed? Show nested quote +On April 04 2014 20:25 Steveling wrote:Sentinel makes it absolutely crystal clear that he can't read palmar before even a quarter of the first day passes. On April 02 2014 04:02 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:On April 02 2014 03:57 Koshi wrote:On April 02 2014 03:44 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:Also, why do I have to get stuck with Palmar  I don't understand this. Explain the not happy face. Palmar is probably the player I have the hardest time reading in this game. It's going to be hard trying to figure the scum in my own cell, even. On April 02 2014 04:13 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:On April 02 2014 04:05 prplhz wrote:On April 02 2014 04:02 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:On April 02 2014 03:57 Koshi wrote:On April 02 2014 03:44 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:Also, why do I have to get stuck with Palmar I don't understand this. Explain the not happy face. Palmar is probably the player I have the hardest time reading in this game. It's going to be hard trying to figure the scum in my own cell, even. seriously? it's 50/50, right? how can that be so worrying? Because lynching by coinflip is such a popular strategy on this site, right? As a member of group 3 I still like that order because I don't have to play for a long time, although Coag's not too unpredictable, kush you can usually see once you wade past all the bullshit, and Palmar... I'll think of something. On April 02 2014 04:57 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:On April 02 2014 04:43 raynpelikonoshi wrote:On April 02 2014 04:41 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:On April 02 2014 04:33 raynpelikonoshi wrote:
Sentinel what i want to know is do you want to lynch into your group or not and why.
Do you consider yourself unreadable?
~rayn I consider myself perfectly readable. I am town, thus I know that I am town. I consider myself pretty easy to read by others, if I had to guess what my town/scum features would be, it's that I get a lot more frustrated as town. In Noir I was a lot more logical and active than usual because I had 5 people to calm me down and streamline my behavior. With town I either get mad and stop caring (Nuclear Winter), or tunnel someone because I can't be arsed to do anything else (Roulette). So what's the problem? Palmar is also perfectly readable, if not to you to many other people. Regardless of if Coag is readable or not your group should be easy to figure out. If you are town why do you want to get yourself "out of the game"? ~rayn Ups and downs. D2 I'll be a very happy person. If you are in the "many other people", how does town Palmar differ from scum Palmar? In all my experience with him all I've seen is a monolith You understand sentinel that in a mafia game you have to provide reads, no matter what, no matter your alignment. This implies that it's not scummy since scum have to provide reads no matter what? And you're wrong, I can get mislynched and piss everyone off, that's an option too. Smurf, Roulette, almost Hashtag... I probably won't do that though. I'm trying to be a little more towny for once and actually participating. Show nested quote +Yet you take that stance towards the strongest player in your cell almost before the game even starts.
Definitely scum points here, you could be trying to get in his good side and give a good excuse to sheep him if he false reads your cell. You're telling me I'd want to sheep someone who has a 50% chance of being scum? I wouldn't do that at the beginning of Day 1 where I have literally nothing to go on. If I'm scum, I'll at least wait until one of my cellmates becomes more competent than the other, in this case Palmar over Coag, and then sheep him later. Show nested quote +He agrees with me on an early dive on gumshoe. On April 03 2014 05:20 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:First off, gumshoe because his filter came up first: Steve dived him here which I'd like to somewhat expound on. The conversation he brings up: On April 02 2014 09:34 gumshoe wrote:On April 02 2014 09:21 raynpelikonoshi wrote:On April 02 2014 09:14 gumshoe wrote:On April 02 2014 09:03 raynpelikonoshi wrote:On April 02 2014 08:56 gumshoe wrote:On April 02 2014 08:54 raynpelikonoshi wrote:
Why didn't you say so in the first place when i gave my answer and asked the same question?
~rayn Because there's a 50 percent chance your scum therefore I owe you no favours, and I didn't catch anything worth bringing up at that moment. So instead of answering me you decided to lie because "you don't owe me anything"? Do you realize i am supposed to have a read on you in this game and it's not looking quite townie atm. ~rayn "Mafia is about finding scum, period" your words not mine, why should I care about your read on me until I know what you are? You opinion is literally a coin flip away from worthless to me. If you can't read me, that's not my fault, I am playing the game as I see fit, your bieng shit at reads doesn't factor in to my play. So your honest opinion is that you don't need to give away your alignment to anyone but everyone needs to do so to you? Also another question. We have 2 imaginary groups X and Y. In group X there is confimed mafia. In group Y there are 3 people who are all really hard to read. Which of the following scenarios in your opinion results more likely in 2 scumlynches: 1) Lynch the confirmed scum in group X, and have 96 hours to figure out the mafia in group Y, or 2) Figure out the mafia in group Y in 48 hours, then lynch the confirmed scum in group X ? I have answered every question directed at me so far, but I feel no need to divulge information that might jeopardize my efforts to trip up scum unless I don't have much choice I. The matter. Especially when it comes to the person whose my default top scum read. As for your question, 2' because confirmed scum isn't going anywhere. They can be literally killed at any time and I rather lynch question marks while everyone is still invested in the game. I have taken on this mind set strictly because the setup holds no surprises. If I'm scum, why would I champion something like that if my buddy gets lynched by day3 anyways? What do I gain aside from towns ire? While going for unconfirmed scum first is fishy (and scummy), what stood out to me was gum's resistance to providing information further within the quote. This is looking like town play, just very bad town play - if I was a scum in gumshoe's position I wouldn't want to encourage rayn to make red reads on me. I'd actually be paying a lot more attention to what rayn is saying and trying to get either him or Steve into the frying pan. As town, gum can be full of hubris. As scum, it's attracting way too much attention, and someone in the QT would have shut him up. I do agree with steve that the other part of that quote is pretty scummy thinking though. He then throws a light punch at me On April 03 2014 08:32 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:
Why wouldn't Steve have a definite red target in his own cell? The same player that basically refused to comment on his cell is asking me why I can't make up my mind in our cell so early in the game, when even now, even after ryankoshi's modkill people are not sure of his alignment, lol. Double standards much sentinel? More scumpoints for this. Palmar asked this question too later on. Now while I concede that I didn't look at my cell too carefully, you were scummier than me in this regard - you had two people to choose from, and read them both as town. I don't think you're scum because you can't make up your mind, but rather you read one as slightly town, read the other as complete town, and then didn't ask yourself any questions about why your reads are like that. I had one guy who I had to judge objectively because I had nobody to compare him with. Now that Coag is here I am going to compare them, but first I have to catch up. Show nested quote +Later On April 03 2014 11:17 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:
A general impression from a quick skim of the 13 pages of roshi's filter:
If I had to distinguish between town rayn and scum rayn, is that rayn plays scum like CNN - seemingly factual, but carefully omitting anything that doesn't support it, and shifting away the attention before anyone starts asking "why?"
The case on gumshoe seems a bit myopic but legitimate, something I'd see coming from yamato more than rayn. Sure it's very detailed and sourced but it's almost to the point where rayn's letting his frustration with gum lead his argument instead of the other way around. More Fox than CNN. He says raynkoshi's gumshoe case is so good and flawless that they have to be scum? what? I like how he re-validates ryankoshi's legit points about gum but again he doesn't take a stance. Fun fact, towards neither of the two. And this was supposed to be a brief summary of his 13page filter dive on rayn, nice results sentinel, lmao.
I called rayn town in this one. You can tell because I called his case "legitimate" and "not so much CNN, which I consider scummy" Would you like me to sign each of my analyses in big bold letters proclaiming THIS PERSON IS TOWN or THIS PERSON LOOKS SCUMMY TO ME from now on?
Later he conveniently takes ryankoshi's side on a silly meta argument. On April 03 2014 12:16 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:On April 03 2014 11:54 raynpelikonoshi wrote:Yeah in a situation where he actually should have been considered confirmed town. 120 pages into the game, not 24h into D1.... rofl Sentinel. Go look at Survivor series. ~rayn I'll actually concede that one to you. Again, so flimsy, so immaterial, so neutral. Do you want me to defend a point where the evidence is clearly against me? I thought rayn was slightly town before this and I think rayn is slightly town after this. I post my thoughts and the best I can make of them. I don't make rash judgments, at least at the start; I consider both a town perspective and scum perspective, and then I decide which I like better. Town Steve doesn't make much sense at this point in the game: Here is your read on rayn: Show nested quote +On April 03 2014 01:08 Steveling wrote:
I read your mayor post raynkoshi.
Honestly you are probably my most town read so I don't have a problem.
As for me I don't have a clue about mayor'ing and stuff.
Do we want scum or town mayor in this setup? Then the whole "swear on my life" thing happens, you rage a little, and return with a case attacking rayn in every single possible regard. Here is my problem with this: Frustrated people do stupid things. That would even explain the tunneling - but why rayn of all people? Gum is the one who created the shitstorm. Gum's comment is directly responsible for what happened and also kept the discussion relatively stupid. Surely there wasn't some point where you stepped back and considered the situation where gum was the scum and rayn was town? Or is it simply because gum backed you up? Show nested quote +Sentinel's favorite mafia tactic emerges again On April 03 2014 12:36 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:On April 03 2014 12:19 Tehpoofter wrote:
So I'm really glad that I just read through 20 pages of gum/rayn fighting. Going into it I had a town read on rayn scum on gum and null on steve. Coming out of it gum looks even scummier steve looks scummy and so does rayn tbh. (there has to be 2 towns in each group right?)
Like I could make cases on all of you guys,
GUM: basically to me Rayn's case on gum is really strong he pretends to set some trap that doesn't work (but seems like it would only catch town if it did work) and then calls rayn scum for it. I thought rayn refuted his claim pretty well and answered some questions on it. Balla brought up a good point last night about how gum accussed rayn of doing the same thing he was doing in ignoring steve and being scummy for it. I think gum went into mega defensive mode and just started throwing shit at rayn and rayn did the same until rayn saw gum say he swears hes town. Tell me what scum gum's rationale would be for blatantly ignoring rayn's criticisms when rayn is one of the most sheep-able people on this forum. More sheeping? And you base a read on gum saying that what he did was illogical because sheeping ryan would be the logical thing instead? Da faq I'm saying scum gum would have no reason to not sheep rayn or at least he wouldn't be so explicit about his actions And if you think that it wasn't legit sentinel you are basically calling me a retard for doing something so silly, because it would be silly to fake it no matter my alignment. Show nested quote +
Later on he says that my anger burst about the oath thing was fake.
Even though he says that, again, he doesn't take a freaking stance. I literally haven't seen that before in any mafia games, xD.
I'm saying everything about the oath was a joke, i.e. stupid and shouldn't be considered seriously. I don't take a stance on it because it's retarded. I'm not calling you a retard, although I question the nerves of everyone involved. Show nested quote +
After ryan's and gum's oath thing, I had to examine why ryan did it. I made a case with the points I thought were valid.
Sentinel goes to sleep and his first post opening his day is against my ryan case.
He accuses me that I falsely counted my town reads and that ryan was a bigger towny than me.
Two things are wrong in his syllogism, first, the semantics he explains are firmly applicable to every other mafia player and not only me. Some people had me down as neutral and not as town, that goes for ryan too though, you didn't say that in your argument.
You said that people saw you as town, or if not town, neutral. I criticized this claim. That is all I set out to do and that is all I did. Show nested quote +Second, my main point wasn't that I was more towny than rayn, it was that I was green enough, so that ryan would be scared of me taking gumshoe's side. You didn't address this at all. The case he made against my case(why would a towny do that, instead of providing new thoughts), was pretty big. Here I spoiler it + Show Spoiler +On April 04 2014 05:35 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:I have to leave before deadline, but I'm voting for rayn. Steve's case is fundamentally flawed from the beginning: Show nested quote +On April 03 2014 18:57 Steveling wrote:There's only one question here, why did they do that? I couldn't think of anything until I read multiple posts while filtering regarding the reason that scumryankoshi did what they did and it dawned on me. Here are some tidbits On April 03 2014 07:04 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:
To me it looks like Steve doesn't have a concrete scumread, only a strong townread and a neutral read that has to be scum due to process of elimination. On April 03 2014 01:03 mderg wrote:On April 03 2014 00:51 raynpelikonoshi wrote:
mderg,
Could you provide some reads? You entered the thread with a very generic statement. how do you read:
raynpelikonoshi
gumshoe
Steveling Steveling - neutral It seems towny to me that he was unsure about gumshoe when filtering his posts(why would scum be unsure). On April 02 2014 22:28 gumshoe wrote:On April 02 2014 18:15 Steveling wrote:I'm now filtering gumshoe, will be posting one liners as I'm reading through it. Hahahaha, gum <3333, that short description of me you made, haha, that's the gum I remember. Gum immediately gets some town points because he asks for his cellmate for thoughts on me, not random people. I explained my reasoning in my previous post. Ummm, gum defending getript, is weird. I will have to filter getript as well to form a better opinion. Btw I think it's weird not as a scam-defends-scam thing but because getript wasn't making much sense at first glance and I recall gum from our game together as a good player, albeit with some suicidal weird plans but good overall. -town points for that but I will have to check getript as well later. I don't like how he blindly agrees with palmar on mayor'ing him. Pls vote people by their activity and quality of posts not by their reputation. Hmm, gum gets some scam points for the following bit On April 02 2014 09:34 gumshoe wrote:On April 02 2014 09:21 raynpelikonoshi wrote:On April 02 2014 09:14 gumshoe wrote:On April 02 2014 09:03 raynpelikonoshi wrote:On April 02 2014 08:56 gumshoe wrote:On April 02 2014 08:54 raynpelikonoshi wrote:
Why didn't you say so in the first place when i gave my answer and asked the same question?
~rayn Because there's a 50 percent chance your scum therefore I owe you no favours, and I didn't catch anything worth bringing up at that moment. So instead of answering me you decided to lie because "you don't owe me anything"? Do you realize i am supposed to have a read on you in this game and it's not looking quite townie atm. ~rayn "Mafia is about finding scum, period" your words not mine, why should I care about your read on me until I know what you are? You opinion is literally a coin flip away from worthless to me. If you can't read me, that's not my fault, I am playing the game as I see fit, your bieng shit at reads doesn't factor in to my play. So your honest opinion is that you don't need to give away your alignment to anyone but everyone needs to do so to you? Also another question. We have 2 imaginary groups X and Y. In group X there is confimed mafia. In group Y there are 3 people who are all really hard to read. Which of the following scenarios in your opinion results more likely in 2 scumlynches: 1) Lynch the confirmed scum in group X, and have 96 hours to figure out the mafia in group Y, or 2) Figure out the mafia in group Y in 48 hours, then lynch the confirmed scum in group X ? As for your question, 2' because confirmed scum isn't going anywhere. They can be literally killed at any time and I rather lynch question marks while everyone is still invested in the game. I have taken on this mind set strictly because the setup holds no surprises. If I'm scum, why would I champion something like that if my buddy gets lynched by day3 anyways? What do I gain aside from towns ire? Open the quote to read rayns question. Srsly gum, wtf, you shouldn't be making that kind of mistake. You basically proposed to scumhunt and coin flip the first day lynch so IF we get lucky we end up with 2 semi-confirmed scum instead of taking sowing what's ripe in day1. Alright gum about that big meta post you did on rayn. Honestly I think it's bad, you claim he accuses you of scumplay and you quote 3 previous games to prove that somehow the meta works for you? You say that "ey guys, I lied there to scumbait, rayn was falsely accusing me, so I'm doing the same thing here", can't you understand how wrong this is? Rayn has every reason in the world to accuse you in both games. Anyway, I remember that was your playstyle as well in our game together so I won't award you with scumpoints for this but if you keep at it, you are getting on my scumlist, period. You end up this post with Ill end with the most damning bit of all, Rayn whole heartedly believes I am scum for false lackluster reasons, despite the fact that Steveling has yet to open his mouth. Thats because hes just accusing whoevers convinient for him, not trying to seriously consider whose scum. Again flawed logic, wouldn't I be the easy target here and not you, a player with 4 pages of filter already? I like your comment on mderg On April 02 2014 13:13 gumshoe wrote:Fun fact, Steve coag and Ceph have not yet started playing really, leaving them out, six people (myself included )  have openly attacked mderg. Geript I'm fairly confident that mderg is the scum in Cell 2. I'm probably going to talk with g more and see what we can dig up from this one, because I'm actually kind of afraid to townread HF after the stunt he pulled in Cultured (which was fucking awesome, btw). Tehpoofter Makes me think Mderg scummy Sentinal town Holy Mderg is mafia in my group btw, that's an easy one. Rayn I noticed this too. I asked Koshi what does he think of this mderg guy and he said it seemed strage how he came in straight up defending the one dude in our group. Too crazy that he instant defended a scumbuddy out of nowhere so if mderg guy ends up being scum gumshoe can die in a fire.
It all fits! Gumshoe Whats your relation to Steveling, whats your general impression of his play and why did you feel the need to answer a question intended for someone else. Do you think Rayn is scum? Balla
We can talk about plenty. How mderg's posts so far have been useless and scummy maybe?
Mderg is a lurky/noobish player, bad play coming out of him deserves due consideration. 50 percent of this games active players (I am not counting lurkers) find this guy scummy in a game where a third of us are scum. Yeah... lynching this guy is not getting us a red flip. I believe there are some scum in this list you made gum. My personal opinion on mderg is that the only town read he has going for himself is when he defended me. He must have seen me posting in the football thread and he just said what he reasoned out. He's inactive or posting fluff, so I'm leaning towards scum for him but the bus'ing against him and the fact he's new made me think otherwise. All in all I'm pretty confused with gum, I'm leaning neutral on him atm, can't make my mind. I love this post BECAUSE it's riddled with uncertainty, this game is filled with people who have perfect reads (cause scum) it's a breath of fresh air to see someone who legit not sure of whose scum in his cell. If steve was scum, he could easily attack me or Rayn, and the way were going at it the non pick might just support his choice whole heartedly. Unfortunately for scum, steve is not just truing to survive his cell, dude be figuring shit out ( : good genuine effort in this post and a stance I feel is most likely town. Steve is cool. On April 02 2014 13:15 Balla24 wrote:On April 02 2014 13:00 gumshoe wrote:On April 02 2014 12:50 Balla24 wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On April 02 2014 12:36 gumshoe wrote:Show nested quote +On April 02 2014 12:22 Balla24 wrote:Gumshoe that case is all over the place :/ it's hard to follow (what alignments was rayn in these quotes?) but on the ending: On April 02 2014 12:13 gumshoe wrote:
Ill end with the most damning bit of all, Rayn whole heartedly believes I am scum for false lackluster reasons, despite the fact that Steveling has yet to open his mouth. Thats because hes just accusing whoevers convinient for him, not trying to seriously consider whose scum. On paper I have a 50 percent chance of bieng scum to him, as he does to me, compare the two of our attempts at reading each other and see whose actually trying to figure out the others alignment and whose considering the possibility that Steveling might be the actual scummer. In both cases, that person is me, I am town, Rayn is 90 percent scum and steveling is 10 percent scum. The end. How can you say this is the most damning bit of all yet you literally just did the same thing and went 90% scum on rayn when Steveling has still "yet to open his mouth"? Show nested quote +Steveling plays alot of video games, he lives in greece(athens, its 11:57 over there at the time of this post) and has been known to post/stay up/game late. He also likes quality literature and is invested in public conflict (like the syrian civil war). Which gives me the sense he is excited to play mafia overall and I find he can be quite active at the start of games (have not played with him in some time but thats my old impression). Seems interesting that he feels the need to recalibrate instead when this is really the best time to jump on the game, I mean theres only like 6 pages so far, perhaps he wants to tread lightly?
Rayn watcha think? I used this to bait Rayn, but the fact that this exists means I thought out what his early lack of commitment might mean. Show nested quote +You and Rayn are firing off in every direction, trusting in your scum hunting skills to avail you I suppose, I on the other hand am pretty much zerod in on you because you are 50 percent scum XD so yeah, I can see why you might say that. Show nested quote +Because there's a 50 percent chance your scum therefore I owe you no favours, and I didn't catch anything worth bringing up at that moment. Rayn pressed me into fighting him when I had nothing concrete to call him scum, I tried baiting him and my results were inconclusive so I back off until he pressed me into fighting with him and revealed his true self, also I clearly say repeatedly hes 50 50, therefore worthy of suspicion, but not 100 percent how does any of that reflect the mindset of someone completely set on scum Rayn from the start? . Compare that to this. Show nested quote +So instead of answering me you decided to lie because "you don't owe me anything"?
Do you realize i am supposed to have a read on you in this game and it's not looking quite townie atm.
Show nested quote +Here i present you our first......
Confirmed scumscumscumscumscum!!!!
ezpz
~rayn Like, read the fucking thread before you post Balla. I think another key thing is Rayn doesnt once include sheer probability as a factor in his suspicion of me (like I do constantly, similar to a drowning man clinging to a raft) he presents his scum reads as if their derived from sheer skill and analysis, because probability doesnt factor into Rayn's convictions, he knows who town is and his reads will just continue to build up solely because he wills them to. On April 02 2014 12:36 gumshoe wrote:
Like, read the fucking thread before you post Balla.
I think another key thing is Rayn doesnt once include sheer probability as a factor in his suspicion of me (like I do constantly, similar to a drowning man clinging to a raft) he presents his scum reads as if their derived from sheer skill and analysis, because probability doesnt factor into Rayn's convictions, he knows who town is and his reads will just continue to build up solely because he wills them to. What are you on about? None of that has anything to do with the contradiction you are displaying. You are calling rayn scum for being confident about his scum read on you even though Steveling has yet to contribute. Yet you are going HAM on rayn, even though steveling has still yet to contribute. It has nothing to do with you attempting to bait rayn. What I want to know is, how can you call rayn scummy for that and say it's the "most damning bit of all" even though you are doing the exact same thing. I backed off of Rayn after the fake case cause his response was fine, but Rayn came back for me and I explained why I lied. He then started hammering me as if he knew I was scum, whereas I was never certain of his alignment, only reasonably suspicious. He has always been far more suspect of me than I of him, I was just trying to read the guy whose in my group. Instead of talking shit Balla, show me proof that I was certain of Rayn's guilt before he was certain of mine and that I was more vocal about it. The order of operations doesn't matter. Steveling has still done nothing, yet you are certain Rayn is mafia, and you call rayn scummy for being certain of you being mafia even though Steveling has done nothing. On April 02 2014 12:13 gumshoe wrote:
Ill end with the most damning bit of all, Rayn whole heartedly believes I am scum for false lackluster reasons, despite the fact that Steveling has yet to open his mouth. Thats because hes just accusing whoevers convinient for him, not trying to seriously consider whose scum. On paper I have a 50 percent chance of bieng scum to him, as he does to me, compare the two of our attempts at reading each other and see whose actually trying to figure out the others alignment and whose considering the possibility that Steveling might be the actual scummer. In both cases, that person is me, I am town, Rayn is 90 percent scum and steveling is 10 percent scum. The end. On April 03 2014 12:19 Tehpoofter wrote:
So I'm really glad that I just read through 20 pages of gum/rayn fighting. Going into it I had a town read on rayn scum on gum and null on steve. On April 03 2014 00:59 gumshoe wrote:
Rayn, we agree steve is town, can we agree to vote him mayor? To which ryankoshi answers, On April 03 2014 01:01 raynpelikonoshi wrote:On April 03 2014 00:59 gumshoe wrote:
Rayn, we agree steve is town, can we agree to vote him mayor? I don't see the point. -Koshi- Ofc, you don't scum, ). Anyway, they also have a town read on me. And finally here is what pieced it all together for me On April 02 2014 19:14 Palmar wrote:On April 02 2014 19:11 raynpelikonoshi wrote:On April 02 2014 19:05 Palmar wrote:On April 02 2014 19:04 Steveling wrote:
Can't argue with that.
Anyway, what about you rayn, you made a bold statement accusing gum, you still think the same?
And what do you think about me? I tentatively think rayn is town. He's a bit too angry for my liking but his point on gumshoe looked really town to me. I thought you might be scum then I realized you're in group with gumshoe who I also think is scum, so now I'm just confused. Steve his filterdive of gumshoe touches a lot of points I didn't like about gumshoe. Like the strange defense of gum to geript. If we take into account Steve didn't yet filter my hydra makes me feel good about him. I don't really know what to make out of the fact Steve is not taking an harder stance on gumshoe scum but I think he is just waiting a return from gumshoe to make a "final" verdict. Anyway. My group is going to get figured out Quite certain of it. Does it not bother you at all that Steve's approach seems to be "Keep all my options open"? Palmar aks ryankoshi about my opinion on both ryankoshi and gumshoe. Yes, as a matter of fact they do mind, not as town but as scum. They do care that I have not yet sided completely with them. They do mind that there is a slight chance of me turning against them and siding with gum and they want none of this. Everyone and their mama had me cleared as town, like most of the active players. Those who didn't read me as town read me as neutral and ryankoshi were crapping their pants because I wasn't that aggressive against gum. So, they had to go back to gum's and mine filters to try and find the tinniest, silliest, most illogical thread of garbage excuse to try and do a 180 on gum and turn on me. And they did exactly that, the oath excuse. (facepalm) In the six posts that you call, in your words, "Everyone and their mama had me cleared as town, like most of the active players. Those who didn't read me as town read me as neutral", many arguments are either wrong or against you: Two are from gumshoe, who considers you town but at the same time has been tunneling rayn. He actually mentioned here (in the Balla quote): Show nested quote +gumshoe:
Ill end with the most damning bit of all, Rayn whole heartedly believes I am scum for false lackluster reasons, despite the fact that Steveling has yet to open his mouth. Thats because hes just accusing whoevers convinient for him, not trying to seriously consider whose scum. On paper I have a 50 percent chance of bieng scum to him, as he does to me, compare the two of our attempts at reading each other and see whose actually trying to figure out the others alignment and whose considering the possibility that Steveling might be the actual scummer. In both cases, that person is me, I am town, Rayn is 90 percent scum and steveling is 10 percent scum. The end. This isn't someone calling you town, this is someone tunneling rayn and saying that rayn is scum because from the two of you, you're the scummier one, yet he's still going after gum. Gum himself seems to have tripped over his argument - wouldn't it be a lot easier to implicate you than him, and thus more "convenient" to fight? You're labeled as green by association, because if rayn is scum as gum believes, you can't physically be scum. But again, gum's argument is flawed and not good evidence for your own. Balla actually points this out. He's accusing you of doing nothing and gumshoe being too myopic to realize that. Which is correct, or was at that point in time at least. You're scummier than rayn, which means you're either null and gum is scum in his eyes, or the other way around. The other gumshoe post of note is the one where he praises your game for being "riddled with uncertainty", which I previously said was relatively logical (i.e. he's not tunneling and you're approaching gum open-mindedly), although then I changed that to scummy because you didn't have a good stance and it was even evidenced in your read of rayn as town and gum as slightly town. mderg finds you neutral - your dive of gumshoe might be towny according to him, but that would indicate the rest of your play is a little lacking, no? I had a slight red read on you. I still do, and between schoolwork and essays I'll see how your more recent activity changes that. I thought it was implied in "one sketchy motherfucker", but alas. tehpoofter finds you neutral. I'm going to have to re-examine some of his words, I believe that conversation we had was unfinished and unresolved. So in total, we have one mostly green read (gum), two neutrals (poofter and mderg, and balla), and one red read (sentinel). Rayn's own town read, like gum's was association due to tunneling at that point.
I'm a bit late with this but I haven't had an opportunity (as in, time) to examine Steve and get my thoughts on about how he went from a green read on rayn to a red read. I think it's completely contrived and really makes me doubt a lot of the other stuff he's been building onto that case. If you had the patience to read the end you would know that once again, sentinel didn't call anyone out. I'm a bit late with this but I haven't had an opportunity (as in, time) to examine Steve and get my thoughts on about how he went from a green read on rayn to a red read. I think it's completely contrived and really makes me doubt a lot of the other stuff he's been building onto that case. He just laid some facts down for us, how thoughtful of him. Finally, he accuses his first player as scum. On April 04 2014 06:26 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:
@Steve
Afk. Making up a few essays I missed due to a business conference last week.
That whole post I made wasn't saying you're scum because of semantics/tunnel. This is what I was saying:
- Your argument on rayn is flawed, X Y and Z are the specific flaws
- Your judgment of rayn's actions is wrong because you're drawing from a point in the game where gum and rayn weren't thinking clearly
You're scum because:
- You spent a while tunneling rayn based on a flawed argument which I perceive as contrived
- Up until your prplhz argument was finally pushed out, you spent the time between your first red case on rayn and your case on prplhz tunneling rayn and not looking for other scum or any other discussion. It's not that you tunneled, it's that you tunneled badly, and unlike gum it's a lot harder to find the markings of bad town play. After he had some sweet scouting time, to see if I'd be everyone's favorite victim he decided that yes, I'm good enough to blame without him taking heat for it. He hasn't said anything about scum before, he just straight up jumps on an accusation. His accusation is arguably against the easiest target in the game by that point, me. Not Coag, the dude in my cell? I could have joined the gum train. Show nested quote +Then there's something very weird, I thought upon reading it that I accidentally skipped some posts but no. He votes for ##coagulation without explaining why. Sentinel&page=3]page3 on his filter, pls see for yourselves. He hasn't mentioned coag literally not even once in his filter, besides his early post "buhu, my cell is so unreadable, poor me". Pressure vote. Really it's my word against yours on this one (and I know gum got called out for his baiting) but you can take the amount of time it took me to vote for mayor (whose election I do consider semi-important) as evidence that no, I'm not just going after Coag the first chance I get. Show nested quote +
Note that he does that only after other people paint coag red, like gumshoe and slam.
Aaand that's all.
I won't yet yell he's the scum in there, simply because I haven't yet filtered palmar and coag.
But his play is ultra super scummy.
I'm actually thinking about this case. A lot of your points are legitimate here, which at least means you're trying. You remind me a lot of me, actually. The only real difference I can see is that you swing to one side or the other on nearly all matters while I remain mostly neutral. I don't know if I like that or not.
Palmar did you read this post ? This is awful. Like The post wavers back and forth on who Steve being scum and Steve being town. For me this is a really odd post because he doesn't pick any side. Like in his filter he's super happy to load up on calling Gum Scum at various points but here he also is trying to paint Steve both towny and scummy.
Like pod 1 is really simple:
Rayn-got himself mod killed, 99.99999999999% town just for that but I have a hard time seeing him rage over the gumshoe swear thing as scum when there's an easy mislynch in Steve
Gumshoe--conf town based on dick move analysis (gum wouldn't swear when/how he did as scum)
Steve--odd man out
So when Sent continues to try and hammer on Gum when he keeps on soft calling Steve town and scum makes no sense for Sent as town. Plus the meta argument on post size, plus how he's been wishy-washy all game. Etc etc etc. like I get wanting to kill Coag and I 100% support Vig shooting him but we need to lynch scum.
Like you know let me translate it into a language you may better understand as you're obviously readjusting back to TL from the all stars game:
Much Wolfy
-villagery points
-villagery points
Looks like Arcbell/Merks
Also I had a larger post my phone at switching between tabs but to all the Town, I thoroughly apologize for being a donkey this game. In rereading, I went from prplhz I swear Gum is scum post to realizing why Rayn was mad about it to realizing I'm a tool this game because Rayn flat out posted what I had 'figured out' back to UoN. Like I've helped fuck up this game but I'm going to help unfuck it too. Fwiw I think HF is the scum in group 2, mostly based on feels and his god-awful 'Steve mod confirmed town' argument but I need to reread Banks/defy in full and com pair. I'm having a hard time getting over my initial scum read on prplhz but after reading him with new eyes like there's things I like and hate. I'll get there, you should sheep me but if I end up getting lynched it's my fault for being a donkey for so long.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/pYb4nky.jpg)
