EPTNewbie Mini Mafia LIV - Page 10
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IAmRobik
United States5878 Posts
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Pixalated
Singapore38 Posts
What this means about his alignment I'm not sure. Could be mafia trying to get cred by claiming that people are townie and having 'right' reads when they flip. | ||
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Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
- Pixalated is correct to point out that OK brought the game out of the joke phase and now that I'm reading his last couple posts I'm nodding in agreement. Slight town lean because his thought process is following mine pretty well. Wouldn't clear him based off that but it's fine for a few hours in. - OnceKing town lean for now, moved the game out of the joke phase, Robik tried pushing an opportunistic lynch on him; I think Robik is scum and busing his teammate so early is stupid. - Cavalinho arguably looks worse than Robik for just echoing Robik's bad points and promising to go reread an old game then not posting any findings. | ||
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Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On March 26 2014 13:45 IAmRobik wrote: I respectfully disagree with what you are saying Eden. Clearing people for my perceived notion of town vs mafia play is not terrible -- it's how I play the game. Then the way you play the game is terrible. None of your reads make any logical sense and frankly look manufactured. | ||
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OnceKing
United States939 Posts
On March 26 2014 13:47 Pixalated wrote: I don't like how he cleared both sqrt and val. Already explained why I don't feel that Val's questions make him town, and sqrt posting random stuff doesn't mean much. What this means about his alignment I'm not sure. Could be mafia trying to get cred by claiming that people are townie and having 'right' reads when they flip. ... so he has two things you don't like and you draw no inference about his alignment? | ||
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OnceKing
United States939 Posts
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IAmRobik
United States5878 Posts
On March 26 2014 13:49 Eden1892 wrote: Then the way you play the game is terrible. None of your reads make any logical sense and frankly look manufactured. That's fine that you feel that way. My style isn't for everyone. That doesn't mean that I'm wrong and that doesn't mean that I'm bad. I've probably played more games of mafia than almost anyone here (in this game and most of the players on this site)...in the process I've picked up on small intricacies in the game and I'm able to clear people for things that other people don't notice. You don't have to like it, but that's how I play. None of that makes me mafia. In fact, it makes me more likely to be town. As mafia, I wouldn't want to put myself in a position where I've cleared people and then have to fucking backtrack and retract and vote on people who I said were town. Anyway. I'm town, thus you're voting for a townie right now. You should prolly unvote if you're town and want to win the game. (For what it's worth, I think you're town. Even though your conclusion is wrong, your thoughts are very logical.) | ||
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Pixalated
Singapore38 Posts
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OnceKing
United States939 Posts
Pixalated - What are your thoughts thus far on Eden? | ||
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Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
What's sticking out is your "Do it instead of say it" mentality toward OK. I completely agree with it. The problem is (a) OnceKing is doing it, by trying to convince people to accept his attitude toward lurkers he's creating an environment that will allow him to push the lurker lynch once it comes up should it come up; and (b) you're not taking your own advice, asking people to pressure others and telling people to do instead of say and then not voting your scum read. It's also strange to me that you say my thoughts are logical but my conclusion is wrong. That can only be true if I'm missing a crucial piece of information that would change the logic of my thoughts and lead me to the right conclusion. Obviously to an extent I am since I don't have your alignment, but assuming you are town, there should be a town explanation for the discrepancy between "do don't say" and not voting the scumread. What is it? | ||
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IAmRobik
United States5878 Posts
On March 26 2014 14:13 Eden1892 wrote: Okay, Robik, that's all well and good that you normally look at insignificant details in absence of more plausible explanations. My vote isn't (necessarily) going to stay on you for the reads; early game does depend on throwing shit out and seeing whether or not it sticks, after all. We have time to see what you do from here. I'm a little willing to accept the argument that you're putting yourself out there a lot and making yourself commit to positions that would be a little awkward to retract as mafia, but I'll need to see more to determine how valid that argument is. What's sticking out is your "Do it instead of say it" mentality toward OK. I completely agree with it. The problem is (a) OnceKing is doing it, by trying to convince people to accept his attitude toward lurkers he's creating an environment that will allow him to push the lurker lynch once it comes up should it come up; and (b) you're not taking your own advice, asking people to pressure others and telling people to do instead of say and then not voting your scum read. It's also strange to me that you say my thoughts are logical but my conclusion is wrong. That can only be true if I'm missing a crucial piece of information that would change the logic of my thoughts and lead me to the right conclusion. Obviously to an extent I am since I don't have your alignment, but assuming you are town, there should be a town explanation for the discrepancy between "do don't say" and not voting the scumread. What is it? 1) I disagree with your assessment that OK is doing and not just saying. You could make the same claim that he's not practicing what he's preaching because he's not voting a quiet person and he's voting one of the most vocal people in the game. 2) It's going to be difficult for you to just trust me on this, but I don't always throw out my vote on someone who I have a scumread on, so if you want, go read foundations. I called out Joey for stuff that wasn't all that significant to begin with and the read kept growing and growing and then I was the last person to vote on him d1 (a vote that failed because two other townies swtiched to the other wagon at the last second). I like to get my thoughts out there and explain them, which is exactly what I've been doing. Me not placing a vote 40 hours before end of day doesn't mean dick. There's a ton of other stuff that can happen between now and then. 3) The crucial piece of information that you're missing is that you've never played with me before. Thus it's logical that you would draw these wrong conclusions about my play because you don't know what a town or mafia game from me looks like. | ||
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Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
It's fine that you don't vote your scum read right off the bat, it's just weird to me that you criticize OK for not voting an inactive when you've just acknowledged there are extenuating circumstances to the very principle you're using to criticize him. And I'm not talking about meta arguments here; that's just moving the issue back a step. The question isn't "do you do this as town?" it's "why do you do this as town?" Talk to me a little bit about the rationale behind your approach to the game; I'm feeling better here but I want to get in your head a little more before I pull my vote. | ||
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IAmRobik
United States5878 Posts
On March 26 2014 14:26 Eden1892 wrote: I think you're misunderstanding OK's policy. "Preferentially lynch lurkers" means "lynch a lurker in absence of other considerations." In economics we use the phrase ceteris paribus -- all else the same -- meaning that all other variables equal you lynch a lurker. Essentially if you and I were the wagons, I had like 4 posts the whole game and you had, Iunno, 400 posts, and OK felt we were equally scum (or at least that the differences were inconsequential), he would kill me over you. There's nowhere to put his vote right now to satisfy this because we don't have multiple scum players of variable activity levels. It's fine that you don't vote your scum read right off the bat, it's just weird to me that you criticize OK for not voting an inactive when you've just acknowledged there are extenuating circumstances to the very principle you're using to criticize him. And I'm not talking about meta arguments here; that's just moving the issue back a step. The question isn't "do you do this as town?" it's "why do you do this as town?" Talk to me a little bit about the rationale behind your approach to the game; I'm feeling better here but I want to get in your head a little more before I pull my vote. Based off of the 2 newbie games that I've played, the mafia were definitely people that posted only a couple times in the days. I assume that is where OK's "policy" is coming from. Thus, I don't feel ceteris paribus really holds any weight. Regardless: my stance is that while I'm actively trying to pressure people and clear people, he's talking about the mechanics of what he'd like to do and not actually doing it. I didn't read what he said as him "trying to get people on board." I don't think that voting someone is as indicative of trying to get someone lynched as putting forth a case -- which is what I feel I did. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe I need to reread and reconsider. It was my initial impression. I like that he's been asking people for their opinions of the whole situation, that reads townie, but I don't like that he hasn't really made his opinions felt up to this point. As for getting in my head and explaining why I do what I do. I do it because I believe it. If I read someone as town, even off of something minor, then I'm going to vocalize it. I'm going to do the same thing if I think something is scummy. Me voting or not voting doesn't indicate anything. I'm pushing. I'm giving reads. That's what I'm doing. Sometimes I'll make a play and say something I don't believe in to gauge reaction and see if someone sheeps something for poor reasoning (like I did in the first newbie game I played here on n1ko), but most of the time, everything that I write will be 100% genuine. Up to this point, I stand by everything that I have written. | ||
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Cavalinho
United States946 Posts
On March 26 2014 13:47 Eden1892 wrote: Other quick thoughts: - Pixalated is correct to point out that OK brought the game out of the joke phase and now that I'm reading his last couple posts I'm nodding in agreement. Slight town lean because his thought process is following mine pretty well. Wouldn't clear him based off that but it's fine for a few hours in. - OnceKing town lean for now, moved the game out of the joke phase, Robik tried pushing an opportunistic lynch on him; I think Robik is scum and busing his teammate so early is stupid. - Cavalinho arguably looks worse than Robik for just echoing Robik's bad points and promising to go reread an old game then not posting any findings. And also because I got caught up playing Epicmafia at the same time. Looking over OK's last accusatory post, it looks quite a bit like what he was doing last game. He's pointing fingers and doing things that are generally pretty pro town. His start was weird, but I don't really have any real reason to think he's mafia right now, especially after all those explanations and actions. Seems townie, getting information and generally being one of those obvious town players. While we're on that topic, I can say that Robik's townreads tend to come early and often, sometimes on what can be perceived to be weird reasoning. That last game we all played together (speaking specifically to you, OK) he townread me because I OMGUS'd him like 20 minutes in or something. He wound up being such a strong player that he was shot N1. Look back on that and ask yourself if he's acting the same way as he did then, because from what I've seen, he makes his mind up pretty quickly and even had his vote wind up on scum. He seems townie thus far. Also, I'm going to #Unvote because we're actually playing the game and solving the mystery. | ||
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Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
Robik is town, guys. You need to move off of him and find a real target. ##UNVOTE IAmRobik Fortunately, I have one. Cavalinho was blatantly riffing off of Robik's emphatic response to OK's post. I think it's textbook mafia play just to follow an enthusiastic town player like he's done. His questions to OK sucked and reeked of someone trying too hard to find fault with something that isn't faulty. And Robik's right. Do, don't say. I don't give a damn if you tell us you're going to look at OK's previous games to "see if he did any weird shit like this before." ##VOTE Cavalinho | ||
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Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
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Cavalinho
United States946 Posts
##Vote Eden1892 One of us is going to be dead by the end of today and it isn't going to be me just because I agreed with someone. | ||
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Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
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Cavalinho
United States946 Posts
On March 26 2014 15:32 Eden1892 wrote: Are there any good players in this game? You're the one voting me because I agreed with someone else. | ||
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Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
What OnceKing did wasn't "weird" at all. You kept and keep pushing the idea that it is while refusing to talk about how it's weird or how it being weird matters. It reeks of someone trying to spread doubt and confusion instead of clarifying the game state. Your questioning him was awkward and looked like you were trying to look like you were getting something done without really doing anything helpful. You haven't been trying to help us find scum, you've just been making unhelpful comments about how weird someone's play is or references to past games that we aren't playing. | ||
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