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On March 07 2014 08:48 Xatalos wrote:
Well basically you had a slight point about there being changes to the roles based on if the receiver is town/Mafia. It's certainly possible and worth some thought. But it's not a reason to shut down the plan and certainly not worth spending a ton of time on when clearly it's just unlikely that this branch of thought would have any major impact. But you think that IF a shot happens that shouldn't, a RB happens wrong, etc. etc., then we should superkill whoever would have been responsible under the roles in the OP?
Like...the plan is multi-stage here. Rayn wants all this set up IN PART because later, when anything goes sideways, he believes we'll know the cause of the sidewaysness, and can apply a bullet/lynch to it. See his posts re: joats, shots, anything and everything, roleblocks.
BUT BESIDES THAT
What's my bad reason? You say LSB is attacking the plan just to attack it, but I just have nebulous BAD REASONS.
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On March 07 2014 09:00 Xatalos wrote:
Well, the bad reason is just that, that the host could change the roles after they're given out. Certainly there could be some slight changes, for example to DT (since otherwise it would be useless for Mafia), but that's just a bad reason to undermine the plan. But if you don't think I'm scum then why are you focusing so much on me? All roles that may be chosen are in the spoilers below. Roles may have additional alterations based on whether they are picked by Town, Mafia or Third Party. Players who draft these roles may or may not be informed of these alterations after receiving these roles. I still can't tell what you think my reasons were, and why they're bad.
You think it's bad because the host wouldn't just change roles after they go out, even though the OP says there may be modifications and then goes on to add that you might or might not get notified of modifications, indicating that a couple different roles would change based on alignments (otherwise why make a notified/no notified distinction?)? Or it's bad to EVER undermine a plan that rayn comes up with? Or bad to undermine THIS plan?
Like, when I read your post, it says that I, myself, have bad reasons for resisting. Scummy reasons or just not good reasons to question things?
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I think the roles I make up are usually better than smellyflowers, tbh. Although inb4 next PTP game someone makes a smellyflowers role.
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On March 07 2014 09:09 marvellosity wrote:
where's this going, austin? Unsure.
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There's no super massive production right now. Just frustration.
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he's typing and deleting things. He's confused. Go to sleep
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On March 07 2014 10:12 marvellosity wrote:
I don't even understand why you're asking that.
austin what's happening bro? Y'all is some wankers.
It's...not making much sense when I type it out. Essentially, I have missed most of today. I'm not just gonna parrot what's already been said, that seems unhelpful and uninteresting. So I'm looking for interesting stuff.
If I find something interesting and townie (LSB), then I should stop finding things townie and only find things scummy
If I find nothing, urrbody disappointed (in a way that bodes less than well for my currently living body)
So I should find scummy things, but only scummy things that haven't been brought up, or maybe ones that have been brought up but some people (I assume) will go "yup, thanks for repeating that, gg scum".
For whatever reason, POST BUT ONLY POST IF SCUMHUNTING AND YOU CAN PROBABLY ONLY SCUMHUNT IF IT'S STUFF THAT NOBODY HAS TALKED ABOUT SO GO FIND THE STUFF THAT EVERYONE HAS MISSED BUT ALSO IT CAN ONLY POINT TO SOMEONE BEING SCUM NOT ANYONE BEING TOWN EVEN IF IT'S ACTUALLY WHAT YOU THINK AND NOVEL OR INTERESTING is not motivating to me tonight.
It alters the way I'm looking at stuff, and it doesn't sit well. That's not how I want to play. So I'ma tell you that I think LSB is town.
Then I'm gonna ask if anyone disagrees with that and why. I brought something to the table, whether you like it or not, it's my thought.
I dunno. I work off of discussion, and back and forth, and questions. Or at least I've slided towards that. I'm not finding errand boy, but only go find certain things we want you to find but we're not going to say what those are and they're also different for different people, to be something that gets my mind going places.
?
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On March 07 2014 10:37 marvellosity wrote:
basically you're just totally abdicating any responsibility for the lynch and bitching about it.
that stinks. The lynch is a ... secondary concern?
I don't have the pull to push a lynch right now, nor does it appear anything is going to happen except possibly a swap onto me. So I'm just not concerned about it.
Not...bitching about the lynch, the lynch is just not a thing I can do much with in this situation.
The bitching is totally separate from the lynch.
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On March 07 2014 10:38 Xatalos wrote:
I'm not really sure how LSB ignoring you makes him totally town. LSB is getting called scum for fighting the plan, and/or for choosing rayn's numbers.
As far as I can tell.
Those mean that if LSB is mafia, he/mafia is trying to like...screw rayn over. There's some reason mafia want rayn to not get what he wants.
I present him an opportunity to bolster his argument, or to try and build a resistance, or to do SOMETHING with. If mafia don't want rayn getting his way, then I'm doing what they want, and they at the very least interact with that somehow. They buddy, they encourage, whatever, but they don't just sit there and leave it alone.
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On March 07 2014 10:41 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
Austin, could you reply to my first post of the page? Yeah.
that LSB post is interesting to me.
The bit from oats about him and mocsta picking same/similar numbers in PYP to mindgame people pops out.+ Show Spoiler +On March 06 2014 14:10 Oatsmaster wrote:
Gumshoe is picking 2/1 because he thinks that Rayn is scary? Not even that Rayn is scum. And with Rayn's plan, if he shoots, he dies. So its a totally unfounded suspicion/paranoia. And Rayn wasnt even gonna pick a KP role.
LSB is also throwing shit on it by focusing everything around the JOAT but Rayn's plan is that the RB's block vig and night vig so again, thats not a problem.
Both scum. Game ez. On March 06 2014 14:20 Oatsmaster wrote:
meh I still kinda like LSB for scum but i think they definitely both could be scum.
On March 06 2014 14:28 Oatsmaster wrote:
Nah me and Mocsta did that last Pyp and I gave some stupid shitty reason that everyone bought till I stopped playing.
On March 06 2014 14:29 Oatsmaster wrote:
Also it looks like LSB was absent so it couldve been a miscommunication since you cant actually change your numbers.
On March 06 2014 14:34 Oatsmaster wrote:
Yeah but shit happens man, I think its totally possible that both LSB and gum are scum.
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On March 07 2014 10:48 Xatalos wrote:Show nested quote +On March 07 2014 10:42 austinmcc wrote:On March 07 2014 10:38 Xatalos wrote:
I'm not really sure how LSB ignoring you makes him totally town. LSB is getting called scum for fighting the plan, and/or for choosing rayn's numbers. As far as I can tell. Those mean that if LSB is mafia, he/mafia is trying to like...screw rayn over. There's some reason mafia want rayn to not get what he wants. I present him an opportunity to bolster his argument, or to try and build a resistance, or to do SOMETHING with. If mafia don't want rayn getting his way, then I'm doing what they want, and they at the very least interact with that somehow. They buddy, they encourage, whatever, but they don't just sit there and leave it alone. Hm. That's a small piece of evidence that could have a point, but it's nowhere enough to townread LSB. Also it's not necessarily the only goal to mess with the plan - equally important could be to create fake contributions to appear like he's doing stuff. More importantly which players would you want to lynch? It's 100% enough to townread LSB. Mafia would do this thing. He didn't do this thing. He's not mafia.
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marv busses plenty of teammates
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I'm not a
poc elor
but I'm definitely something similar
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On March 10 2014 09:40 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2014 09:29 Xatalos wrote:
On the other hand, I think it has more to do with how unbalanced the teams were rather than the setup being unbalanced. austin+yamato+gumshoe (passive lurker scummers) vs a group of strong/decent townies is almost unwinnable. austin isn't really a lurky scumplayer tbf. town just too good palmar didn't even have to play I've never been THIS lurky, and by the time I got active the thread had already concluded that a bunch of people looked town 80% for activity and 20% for not being idiots.
It was difficult to attack people who were just townie for activity, because they HAD been active and also not idiots. And thread was so circle-jerky, even very early on, that it felt difficult to ... interfere with townies confirming each other. I couldn't find a great avenue to go after artanis, or to do more than poke you, or really rayn.
I dunno, I played very, very poorly. It's actually the first game I've lost where I roll mafia from the start, and certainly my worst scum game. But we began so friggin' far behind and never got a cohesive strategy together.
ALSO RAYN'S PLAN WAS BAD. ASSIGNING NUMBERS, GREAT. ASSIGNING ROLES, POSSIBLY GREAT. ASSUMING ROLES BARELY CHANGE EVEN THOUGH THE OP SAYS THEY'LL CHANGE AND THAT THE GAME CAN BE BALANCED IN A 9-2-1(neutral) SETUP IS RIDICULOUS.
Like...if we'd not played ridiculously poorly, or played the game at all, Gumshoe's role and maybe one other might have given us a solid chance, because half of town would have been trying to aim a lynch based on roles, and half on play, and whatnot.
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geript thanks for running this. I know we didn't give a good idea of exactly how balanced the setup itself was, and I think that the poor showing isn't really the setup.
At least from my point of view, being told that no roles would be mafia-useless was nice, but it's...without knowing exactly what roles do, it's kind of hard to value them. We didn't GET to value roles because our number picking was too conservative, but letting mafia actually know what roles do for them might get them to pick a little better, if that is something you want to tweak.
Otherwise, I like splitting up the lynch and the picking. It gives mafia more time to do something, more time to read the thread and get a plan together, and it ... it gives them more time for someone to screw up in a lynchable way. Getting that first mislynch on someone who screws up would have been crucial to us, and SOME townie will always do something super scummy given more time.
But honestly I don't know how much tweaking this needed. I would be interested to see whether, over the course of more PYP minis, there are more town plans put together. In a large game, enough people screw up plans/claims and whatnot that scum have a little more hiding room. With less players, a small group can essentially force everyone into a plan or a claim, even if the plan isn't particularly awesome. That MAY be something that happens..."too often" in mini PYPs, and causes things to get organized against scum too early. Dunno. I like the idea of trying to have PYP minis though, and felt it ran smooth.
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EPT
