EPTHandslaps and Fisticuff: A PYP Mini [M][T]
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
(1) I'm not a survivor. Either gumshoe or some other no-poster is OR we don't have one. OP says either 9/3 or 9/2/1, so it's not like there has to be an unclaimed survivor (saw a couple posts wondering who it was, there don't gots to be one). NOW TO BE CONTRADICTORY!!! (2) I don't love the idea of a super duper pick list. All roles that may be chosen are in the spoilers below. Roles may have additional alterations based on whether they are picked by Town, Mafia or Third Party. Players who draft these roles may or may not be informed of these alterations after receiving these roles. Roles may have additional alterations based on whether they are picked by Town, Mafia or Third Party. Players who draft these roles may or may not be informed of these alterations after receiving these roles. wait Roles may have additional alterations based on whether they are picked by Town, Mafia or Third Party. Players who draft these roles may or may not be informed of these alterations after receiving these roles. Even when all information is known, I don't think I've seen a full player list do what they were supposed to do based on picks and actions. Ever.In this case, we've been told we don't know EXACTLY what roles do. We also have been told we MAY NEVER KNOW what roles do, until we do stuff with them. So a proposal that relies upon specific people roleblocking x and y and some other folks shooting specific targets seems unreliable, EVEN IF THERE HAD EVER BEEN A GAME WHERE EVERYONE DID AS THEY WERE SUPPOSED TO. I like assigning numbers, dislike assigning roles within a system that requires PEOPLE to use roles as told and roles to work as expected. With that said, anyone picked an [8][x] yet? If yes, I'll take something towards the back. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On March 05 2014 13:20 raynpelikoneet wrote: It's like fakeclaim and die. Shoot someone and die. Roleblock someone you are not supposed to and die. If you are mafia DT then just rofl.  this worries me. We've basically been TOLD things won't happen as expected. On March 05 2014 15:04 raynpelikoneet wrote: Trust me, this is really easy. If assassin takes an unaccounted shot, day/night vigi shoots them because they claim mafia. Same goes vice versa. Every time we decide on a shot the roleblocker and jailer target each other so the shot is guaranteed to go through. If they don't, they claim mafia. That way we control all the non-mafia factional KP in the game which is far better than leave it up for a chance that mafia picks KP-roles and we are fucked. Again, vigis, roleblockers, jailers, and all roles that we don't expect to have KP all have to work like we think they will. On March 05 2014 15:48 raynpelikoneet wrote: Assassin kills someone. They die. We know the assassin killed them. Assassin has to be the only silent insta-kill. scum day vigi can't work like that or scum vigis an important townie, we kill the assassin, things fall apart, etc. I LIKE THE THOUGHT BUT THIS RELIES ON US BEING IN A DIFFERENT GAME | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On March 06 2014 08:54 Hopeless1der wrote: Eh?scum would need to be both the assassin and the dayvig for this to work, and then we can lynch them both... If roles are modified based on faction picking, a scum day vigi could be "type in thread and shoot that dude" "type in thread shoot different dude" "silent daykill" "something else" If the role doesn't work exactly as stated, say if it's silent or it hits someone else (which I guess is also silent), then things didn't work like the plan needs them to. I suppose if you hit someone else, that's not a very townie modification and we assume scum, but if day vigi can be modified to be silent, then when the day vigi shoots, we assume it's the assassin, and then we lynch the assassin. Whatever the assassin's alignment, he's gonna go "I didn't shoot that guy", but as far as we know, assassin is the only possible silent shot, so we think he's lying. Town or scum, a silent shot went off, assassin has the only silent shot we know of, therefore assassin did it and is lying, therefore lynch. It wouldn't require scum to have both? | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On March 06 2014 06:00 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Because LSB didn't understand something and his conclusion to it was that Rayn was scum. When you don't understand something, do you instantly call the person scum for it? If I recall correctly LSB tends to be fairly cautious in the start, so for him to open with a scumread on something as light as that seems suspicious. Artanis is this LSB-specific or general? Like, all people who jump to the THIS GUY IS SCUM conclusion after not understanding are mafia, or only certain ones, and LSB is in that set because normally he's cautious? | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On March 06 2014 09:00 Hopeless1der wrote: ?but we're supposed to know who has the dayvig and the assassin. If they are silent, tell them both to kill each other. Only one will succeed. We may or may not know if someone else is silent Even if that person knows, we may or may not know because that person might be mafia and lie If we have a silent shooter we don't know about, we lynch town (assuming mafia assassin would mean that mafia don't silent day shoot with another role cuz it would just lead to mafia getting lynched). If someone says "oh ya I'm silent too" then what...we have assassin vigi the claimer, assuming that a silent modification is scummy, and we hopefully hit scum, but then there's no reason for them to claim? The OP says roles will be modified and we may or may not know how. The SPECIFICS of this plan rely on roles working as posted in the OP. The OP essentially says "The basis for this plan is false." | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
Why am I totally right about this? Why am I totally right about this but also wrong? | ||
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austinmcc
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On March 06 2014 09:25 Hopeless1der wrote: The OP explicitly states "SOME ROLES MIGHT CHANGE DEPENDING ON THE FACTION THAT GETS THEM. ALSO, THEY MIGHT CHANGE WITHOUT YOU EVEN KNOWING THAT THEY CHANGED"marv are austin's concerns about what I would essntially call bastard modding legit? I don't see his problems actually...being problems To the extent that "bastard modding" is "things don't work the way you expect" and not full on sniper kitty or whatever, I think this game is in a grey area because it explicitly says THINGS WON'T NECESSARILY WORK LIKE YOU EXPECT AND SOME ROLES WILL BE ALTERED WITHOUT YOU EVEN KNOWING IT. I dunno. I haven't seen a PYP mini. I can't fathom a PYP mini that could be balanced at 9/2/1 with a neutral survivor as the 1. If the game is balanced 9/2, that means, to me, that some of the modifications that can happen will not be happy for town. | ||
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austinmcc
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austinmcc
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On March 06 2014 09:32 marvellosity wrote: I agree with this.If we know where KP roles are, that's a pretty massive step in working out what is going on in the game, that is for certain. I question our ability to know how exactly they will work. Like...in 4 KP roles if you count JOAT, something's likely funky for one faction or another. And if we don't know how they work, knowing where they are is...equally/less/not at all valuable, because we can act incorrectly based on our knowledge. I also hate the idea of stocking up on KP roles in general, would so much rather see NOBODY TAKE KP EVER and the leftover dude confirm that, and have it be town with defensive and investigative roles v. mafia. PYP KP roles seem to be town-seeking. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On March 06 2014 09:33 marvellosity wrote: OP says 9-3 or 9-2-1I'd expect 8-3-1 given PYPness is a bonus for town, not mafia. or 9-3. This is a semi-open setup for 12 players. There will be either 9 Town and 3 scum or 9 Town, 2 Scum and 1 Third Party Survivor. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
But jeebus if we put the leftover dude as first pick, have him claim what is/isn't leftover, then shoot him D1 lolololol, we could be certain that we had no KP roles and the game was chock full of DTs and medics/JKs, and then we hope that scum medics don't poison or ... I dunno what other stuff. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On March 06 2014 09:37 marvellosity wrote: If I'm one of the people running afoul of this, I think it's a silly request.by the way, people need to stop talking in generalities. Like "but if people don't cooperate" - say *which* people "but if a trigger happy townie..." - which trigger happy townie? "if town don't do this..." - who in town? Enough players, and important ones, have lent support for organisation that if you're going to bring up specific problems, bring them up in relation to specific players. I would say that based on past PYP games, SOMEONE won't cooperate. Palmar has stated he's not going to cooperate IF cooperating = Palmar doesn't get a gun (at least in some cases) We have multiple folks either lying about picking duplicate numbers or actually picking duplicate numbers, gumshoe and LSB. I can't really speculate as to WHO will do a certain thing, only that SOMEONE always seems to do something wonky, and in SOME cases the game has a lot of chatter over whether that's townie or scummy and it's never 100% one or the other (see the tryndamere bit in PYP:LoL, and....other examples that I don't have off the top of my head) On March 06 2014 09:37 marvellosity wrote: So you think EITHER the OP presents a lie (that the game could be 9-2-1) OR 9-2-1 would be imbalanced but is still an option?Ah. Well I think 9-2-1 is ridiculously imbalanced so I am going to assume there is no survivor. Like...then we're already either in a bastard game OR an imbalanced game is a fine setup, indicating that the roles would ACTUALLY shift a fairly decent amount to balance things | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On March 06 2014 09:44 marvellosity wrote: But assuming the OP is true, either someone claims I AM A SURVIVOR LOLOLOL I WIN or nobody claims that, and we already know which world we're in.i just think it's very unlikely 9-2-1 would be chosen. i think it's there just to introduce uncertainty. I don't think it adds any uncertainty, because the survivor either claims or doesn't, and that should settle which world we're in | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
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austinmcc
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Any 8s. GETCHER 8s. | ||
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austinmcc
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Hopeless and prpl had their bit. yamato and marv i guess we'll let rayn and LSB square off gumshoe and artanis? OATSMASTER I CHALLENGE YOU TO BE MY NEMESIS. ALSO, WHY AM I RIGHT ABOUT EVERYTHING? | ||
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