Golden Sun: The Lost Age Mafia Djinn Edition

On May 21 2014 10:22 27ninjabunnies wrote:
Hi there. I may have an army of ninja bunnies at my disposal, but I assure you they are protecting town, not trying to kill them.

So, why are you reading me mafia?

This is your first post, and you vote on me. What are your reasons?

On May 21 2014 10:28 27ninjabunnies wrote:


Well I assume you are voting me because you are reading me as mafia.

So, why are you reading me as mafia?

On May 21 2014 10:46 27ninjabunnies wrote:
I will have to respond to your question with another to stay true to my motives.

If I didn't consider you as mafia, why would I be voting for you?

Even if my replies seem very off to you, please do respond. You're under evaluation.

On May 21 2014 10:46 27ninjabunnies wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +

If you don't consider me as mafia, you shouldn't be voting me.

The only reason outside of you considering me as mafia for why you would vote for me is this: you want to get a read on me via my reactions to your voting on me to see if I react poorly or more town favored. This is only used if you don't have a read on me from what I've previously posted.

This can also lead to reads from other people if they begin questioning you or agreeing with you.

So again, why are you reading me as mafia?

On May 21 2014 06:52 27ninjabunnies wrote:
If I'm avoiding your question, it's because I have a pretty good damn reason as to why.
But because you are being persistant, the ones I have my eye on are Steveling, WaveofShadow and Tehpoofter.

On May 21 2014 07:30 27ninjabunnies wrote:


No, questions are good. They get reads. Reads are good.

So the questions were not annoying. I was more annoyed by the fact you said I was avoiding what you were asking.

I think I had made it clear as to why. But please continue. I want to hear more.

On May 21 2014 06:52 27ninjabunnies wrote:
But this doesn't necessarily mean they are scum. I rather read more of their play and interactions before I straight out call someone mafia. The majority of these people I haven't played with, and this is my second forum game.

If I don't have logic behind my reads, where does that put me? As a freaking town more likely to get mislynched.

So hold your horses, let me get my reads, and then we'll talk.

On May 21 2014 10:28 27ninjabunnies wrote:


Well I assume you are voting me because you are reading me as mafia.

So, why are you reading me as mafia?

On May 21 2014 10:46 27ninjabunnies wrote:


If you don't consider me as mafia, you shouldn't be voting me.

The only reason outside of you considering me as mafia for why you would vote for me is this: you want to get a read on me via my reactions to your voting on me to see if I react poorly or more town favored. This is only used if you don't have a read on me from what I've previously posted.

This can also lead to reads from other people if they begin questioning you or agreeing with you.

So again, why are you reading me as mafia?

On May 21 2014 11:08 27ninjabunnies wrote:


I like how confident you are in yourself. As for reading you as town, that's yet to be determined.
If I had a strong scumread on you, yes, I would probably push on you to get you lynched. As for right away, it depends. If I think I can have support, I'll push right away. If I don't think I'll have any support, I'd need t find evidence that can prove or atleast put into speculation that you are mafia.

So, your answer?

On May 21 2014 11:50 Holyflare wrote:


this is the part of your case where you assume something completely wild and out of the blue cephiro that is so off tangent to the original question that it doesn't make sense and then the rest of your case is entirely based off of this

On May 21 2014 11:56 Yell0w wrote:
The problem is there are multiple scum factions, you could both be scum and not know it.

On May 21 2014 12:04 sqrtofneg1 wrote:
@Ceph, I disagree on your case. I think bunnies is mafia.
However, I don't think you're mafia. Although it's a bit strange you went straight for her, I think you're town.
I would, however, like to see what your reads are, other than bunnies.

On May 21 2014 12:02 Tehpoofter wrote:
@Ceph the questions you asked bunnies Can you detail how you would think she would answer them as town? Reading your case to me it seems like you asked the line of questions with the intent of calling her mafia at the end or at least they are questions that confirm a notion that she is scum vs going into it with a null read. I think you case is confirmation bias and I don't think bunnies is scum here. If she was mafia she would be WAY WAY WAY more careful with how much she talks/posts she wouldn't interject/interact with lots of people and your line of questions in court would be akin to "leading the witness"

What do you think of BKQ/Velanius/Yellow?

On May 21 2014 12:03 Yell0w wrote:
Well the argument is that bunnies didn't think cephiro could be scum because she's scum so she knows the other scums, right? But she has no way to know that even if she's scum, so yes I think he didn't think it through.

And to answer Hapa, obviously I don't know if there are more than one scummy factions, though it's likely in my opinion and either way, neither does anyone right? So, still, bunnies had no way to know that cephiro wasn't scum, which is the whole argument.

On May 21 2014 11:58 Holyflare wrote:
you came to the thread completely out of the blue and voted her, showed no intention of voting her and asked her dubious questions that revealed nothing of where they were going

the only real assumption that one would make in that scenario is that you were trying to get information out of her by doing that, why would anyone assume what you were doing was a mafia pushing a mislynch or a mafia doing anything? that's so out of the blue

this implies that you wanted her to answer in a way that explained your actions of questioning, not the agenda behind the overall play

On May 21 2014 12:17 27ninjabunnies wrote:
I figured the calling me mafia was where you were going with this post. I was interested in seeing what you posted, and I have to say, I'm quite impressed. However, there are many things you are wrong within this point. Allow me to point them out. I'll also give some feedback here and there, so if my explanations seems a bit out of order, I apologize.

1) Yes, I am a cooperative person. I'm not going to be completely BM towards a person or fight over things within this forum. I don't find that productive in finding mafia. What is odd to me is why you would start an exchange with me based on me being "cooperative".

1) So this is clearly a correct assumption made by me. I started an exchange with you because since I had my suspicions on you, I knew I would be able to interact with you in the way I wanted to. If you suddenly turned extremely uncooperative to my questions, it would make you look really bad in contrast to your earlier play, and you have pointed out you don't want to be read as scum very clearly. Basically, you were forced by yourself to answer my questions, so I decided to make the best out of it.

2) They say honesty is the best policy. I agree, being scum it is hard to be completely honest, actually impossible! I wasn't admitting annoyance to being called out on a play, I said I was annoyed by his play, specifically him claiming I was avoiding what he was asking, which in my opinion, I don't think I was avoiding. I ended up giing my reasons and reads anyway, so people bringing this up makes little sense to me.

2) It is actually not true, you never followed up with your reasons for Steveling/WaveOfShadow/Thepoofter. You quickly changed to agree that Steve is likely town on based what others posted. Nothing on Wave/Thepoofter, so this is a flat-out lie. You didn't give your reasons for thinking they are scum yet. I would be fine if you were "still looking for more to be certain", but claiming you gave reasons when you didn't? That's a flat-out lie, and you're scum for it. Still makes no sense why people bring it up?

3) No one wants to be read as scum. If I'm read as town, that's less likely there will be a mislynch on me, and actual mafia could be found. If there are any suspicions on me because of a certain read I made that made no sense, then that takes town off the agenda of finding mafia and having to discern whether or not I am town.

3) Certainly true. However, is it more important to a) Find scum or b) Not like like scum. You show great interest in contributing and trying to find scum when you really haven't done anything to show us that's the case, whereas you constantly go on about how you don't want to be read as scum. Certainly, defending yourself is important, but it won't be enough alone to just try and fend off pressure from yourself. Find a more preferable lynch target if you don't want to be on the block.

4) Just because I didn't post so in my posts, doesn't mean I am not thinking ahead. It was obvious from your initial post on me that you were reading me as scum. I wanted your reasons as to why. You hop in this thread with many other questioning going on, and single me out, and I figured you must have a reason to do so, thinking I am mafia. I did consider that you didn't have agood read from me from what I had posted within the forum in previous pages, but usually when someone votes you, you think, oh this person must think I'm mafia. What is he seeing that I nor others are seeing? You asked specifically 2 questions. And I answered those two questions. Just because I didn't answer beyond "the box" of what you wanted me to does not mean I am not thinking ahead or means I am mafia. I just refused to give you further information until you gave me information, which you did not until your huge post.

4) My last question already proved my point of you not being a player that downplays themselves. If you had thought as far ahead, you would've shown that in your posts. We already talked about you being honest. Also fits within your nature to not downplay yourself -> show what your honestly capable of. Again, I don't think you are scum for not thinking ahead. It was just a step I needed to figure so I could analyse your following responses based on if you are able to do that or not. All the questions support each other to the extent I have no reason to believe that you downplayed and were actually thinking far ahead of the scope of the situation we're currently in. So again, I do not think you're mafia for not thinking ahead, I think you are mafia for answering the way you did. (As pointed out in my case).

5) I don't question whether you are scum here yet because of these reasons: if you were scum, why would you single me out out of many other people who could lead harder on you or your partners? I admit I'm not leading town in any direction, nor pushing an agenda. I speak out where I feel is necessary and give reads on which I think is necessary. It's also only early in day 1, and if I have a better scum read, I could push elsewhere, as I stated in my response to you. I also specifically said I didn't know what your alignment was. Your alignment is yet to be determined.

5) You can say things all you want, but all your posts clearly pointed towards reading me as town. As you already said yourself, I have very little reason to do this to you if I was scum. So basically what you're saying is that you agree that the play I did is very likely to come from town? (Which wouldn't necessarily be the case.)

6) I am a good mafia player because I am confident in my reads. Because I push an agenda when I feel I have one. If I don't have a good read on anyone or any certainty, why would I push on a read and mislead town? Its counterproductive. I also asked for your read on me again and again, because you kept saying you would provide it, but then continue to ask me questions. I honestly don't care why you read me as scum. I care why you think I am scum. If you have good reads behind it, then so be it. But you don't. You are basing your entire read on our interactions, and not my interactions, reads, and plays I have made in previous pages of this forum.

6) Pushing on a read even if it's an uncertain one doesn't mean it's misleading town. I could be wrong on you, but I believe I am not. In that small chance of you being town, there is a lot of productive discussion to come from my push on you, do you not agree? I based most of my read on our interactions since that is exactly where I aimed to gain the affirmative thoughts of whether you are mafia or not. Turns out that they point towards you being one. If I thought you were town after those, there wouldn't be a case like this on you right now. Your previous reads and plays are basically nonexistant, like I proved in my point 2. You still haven't followed up on the reads you were asked to tell about, yet claim you have. This is a lie, and does not fit with your honest playstyle. You're a caught scum.

On May 21 2014 12:23 Tehpoofter wrote:
What should she have answered to be TOWN? Like i see you did that thing as mafia but if you ask a question and there are no right answers the questions are flawed. I think thats how you played this interaction. Yellow is the first one to analyse btw. And just for the record glad you're not just making one giant post and fucking off like the other games we've played. Coming out swinging I like although I don't like this post

If you don't consider me as mafia, you shouldn't be voting me.

The only reason outside of you considering me as mafia for why you would vote for me is this: you want to get a read on me via my reactions to your voting on me to see if I react poorly or more town favored. This is only used if you don't have a read on me from what I've previously posted.

This can also lead to reads from other people if they begin questioning you or agreeing with you.

So again, why are you reading me as mafia?

On May 21 2014 13:00 Tehpoofter wrote:
So I disagree that just because she reads you as town she is scum.

On May 21 2014 13:13 27ninjabunnies wrote:
Ugh, tbh. You annoy me to no end. And my eyes hurt.

Let me refute each of your points once again.

1) Yes, it was correct. I agreed that I am cooperative. Would you rather me go. "NO YOU ARE WRONG. LIKE OHEMGEE SO WRONG! LIKE I CAN'T EVEN BELIEVE THIS." Uh no, I'm not like that. I'm not going to be BM, I'm not going to cause problem. And, So you are basically saying, you are manipulating me into responding how you want me to respond and then calling me scum for you asking leading questions that work in your favor. Congratulations. I wasn't forced into being cooperative. I can choose to be cooprative or not. I chose to be. It had nothing to do with you.

1) Why do you keep making flat out lies? I did not manipulate your responses with the exception of the second, where I only pointed you to think outside the box. Ridiculously enough, you claim right after that all you did was of your own free choice. Another contradiction. If you were so in control of the situation, then why claim that I manipulated you? I didn't say it's a bad thing that you're cooperative. I just pointed out why that was the reason I decided to pick you for my first examination.

2) I didn't give specific reasonings on any of them because I didn't have specific reasonings. They were mostly because of a gut read and the theory that I had that mafia would be really active in the first couple of pages to come off as townie. I however, did give reads on two other people, Thrawn and Jampi and gave reads behind them. So, no, I'm not scum because of not giving my reads on them when I didn't have set reads.

2) As mentioned before, I have no issue with you waiting till you're more comfortable with your reads, what I do have an issue with is if you claim to have brought proper content when you haven't. (Lately, there are some smaller posts on other players which are decent, I can't after all expect you to spam walls of text all the time, nor do I want that. Just don't go off trying to make yourself look like a super-contributor when you're not.)

3) I am questioning certain things, calling people who I think are scum, scum. But I'm not pushing. That's not how I get my reads. I like to read into interactions, plays, and other people's reads. Like I said, when I am certain on someone I will push that someone. Most of the conversation, however, at the beginning was about the RNG play, and then HF, Steve, and whoever the other person was being BM to each other, something I'm not all that into.

3) Fine with this, given that you'll actually do properly push someone once you're confident enough. But I'm not gonna wait around forever. What I would like to know though, is there a reason you prefer to be more passive instead of getting in there and creating the content yourself for your reads to become more trustworthy?

4) I don't think I'm reading your case very well. I'll reread again and comment on it later.

Very well. Please do point out as logically as possible if you think a certain point is extremely flawed. Or, if you simply think the logic behind it is reasonable, but the result is still not true, then do point out that also. (I don't expect you to do the latter if you are scum.)

5) I don't see how my posts are anywhere indicitive of YOUR alignment, or what I am reading as your alignment. I wanted to know your thoughts and line of thinking before I jumped to that conclusion. If my posts came off as me thinking you were town, that wasn't my intention. Nor was it my intention for my posts to come off as me thinking you were mafia. I wanted to be objective when reading you, especially since you immediately hop into the forum and single me out. I think you could be town making this play, but you could also be mafia. I don't want to base the read ust off of what you think of me, because that is a biasy. There are 30 other players outside of just us.

Trying to remain objective while analyzing a player is fine. But from our interaction, by now at least you should have an idea of what my alignment seems to you. I'm not encouraging you to concentrate on me or my play alone, but it should be one where you shouldn't have too many problems of leaning towards a side or another. Obviously the opinions of other players matters as well, but don't count on anyone but yourself too much.

6) You're right, pushing a wrong read isn't always necessarily bad. But I've gotten lynched in games because of "bad" reads and wrong reads. Especially in a game this big, I'm more hesitant. And the fact it's a closed setup. Maybe I shouldn't be so cautious, cause sometimes I'm not, but I don't have any solid reads to be able to afford to be wrong.

Understandable.

Now for this post:
+ Show Spoiler +

Like I said, I don't care why you think I'm scum. I wanted to make sure YOU knew why you thought I was scum. Of course I'm going to refute the reads that you have wrong on me, cause that is what you do as town, you show why you are town. Now if I had asked, "What exactly did I do that made me seem scummy, or what should I have done to not seem scummy?" then I would understand why you are pushing that agenda on me. But I specifically asked you what your reasons were, as you basically gave nothing, but just cntinued to ask me questions.

On May 17 2014 05:32 Cephiro wrote:
/in

I hope this won't start until two more weeks, then my holidays start and I can play properly... :3