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On January 11 2014 13:56 Holyflare wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2014 13:28 Giggletummy wrote:
Your case/vote was B2B comparison + followup on derrida + voice mafia/IML comments.
I can't prove or disprove the voice mafia/IML comments, but it would be curious for you to lie about that. I disagree with your characterization of following up with derrida saying he'd do something. So I'm left with the B2B comparison to consider. Yes, mocsta's lazier attitude does not make him not scum, but it makes your case look weaker, because you didn't present those thoughts before. You just compared his play to one town game and went with that. I'm not playing a 1 on 1 game with you so when I make a statement I expect you to do research to verify whether my claims are true or not in regards to meta because that is what a sensible towny would do and it allows me to see who is putting effort into this game. You can look into games where he is both scum and town I do not need to provide all the evidence because based on Mocsta's post I can pretty much confirm him as scum in my mind so I find it INCREDIBLY suspicious that he is your favourite out of me/rayn/him. I did do the research. That's why I said that yes, B2B looks different, but so do his other games. Seriously though, look at that newbie game I linked.
I'm more than interested in hearing you turn a critical eye towards rayn, even if you still end up townie on him.
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The newbie filter is worth looking at because bright-eyed fresh mocsta was using all sorts of bold and italics and lists and making these giant headings and just prettying up his posts. And now he is a grizzled infantryman, down in the trenches, posting nary a space or punctuation mark, and sometimes he only types in wingdings. At least some of this post contains true statements.
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If he knew he wasn't going to die, it's scummy. If he thought he was going to die, then I don't care about his alignment. It's a signal that he's not going to play this game, and it's not something I want to encourage or allow (to the extent I can disallow anything) in our games. 
##unvote
##vote: Mocsta
I think the martyring indicates he's green, though. It's a two-man scum team, so mocsta lynching himself would be a big middle finger to his scumbuddy on day one. And I disagree that he might off himself to keep information from town, because he wasn't posting in a manner that gave us any information except perhaps on HF's alignment. I expect a green flip, but can't condone the self-vote hammer, and am happy to lynch players of any alignment in any game until they cease that behavior.
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On January 12 2014 02:19 raynpelikoneet wrote:
##unvote:
So Giggletummy you are voting for a guy you think is town. Why is that? I like fun games more than won games. If I have to lose some games or put myself in a worse position in order to discourage certain behavior that makes the game less fun for everyone (screw everyone, I'm killing myself because I cba to do anything), I will. With a smile on my face. Do it enough and perhaps people will knock it off.
On January 12 2014 02:23 Holyflare wrote:
How is self hammering a green indicative thing to do in any instant majority lynch????? Has everyone gone crazy? Townies get frustrated and do stupid things. There are more townies, they feel expendable, they feel like they don't want to play the game. There are only two scum. They are not expendable. They feel very scared, because if either of them dies, the other guy is all alone. He's not a scum team anymore, he's a shipwreck survivor clinging to a floating log and trying to survive in the ocean. I'd expect self hammering to come from town based on that.
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Also, if he's mafia, he just grabbed a shovel and started digging when he had his outburst of activity ~12ish hours ago. Just saying you're wrong, starting to occasionally make a half-decent point, but never following it anywhere. If he's mafia, I would expect him to either defend himself and try to present an alternative target that someone is going to lynch (not you at that time), or say nothing and try to ride things out. Becoming very visible to do nothing but make it look like you don't care about the game is not a good strategy as mafia with votes already on your head.
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On January 12 2014 02:41 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Yeah well you don't policy lynch when you have infinite amount of time and D2 LYLO. I do.
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It's not a policy and it's not useful for stamping behavior out if you selectively enforce.
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On January 12 2014 03:05 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Oh now i get it.
But still, why do you want to policy lynch in D2 LYLO game? On January 12 2014 02:49 Giggletummy wrote:
It's not a policy and it's not useful for stamping behavior out if you selectively enforce.
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I will give you one hypothetical post. Then I will stop. Because you can come up with scenarios endlessly and that's not particularly relevant to this game.
D1 LYLO game. Someone tries to hammer himself. If he's town, he just tried to end the game for all townies. Yes, I would policy lynch that person. Either the player is scum or just tried to make us all lose anyway. I don't want that guy in D2. I don't want that guy in D3. I don't want that guy in D4. I don't want that guy thinking he can play the same way in another D1 LYLO game, or another, or another. I don't want my children, or my children's children, or some russian orphan that GGQ adopts/smuggles out of russia to play in a game where people think they can just lose the game for town as a townie and that's fine.
I would rather play in games where players don't think those actions are okay. Lynch in the D1 LYLO game, lose, and every other townie in that LYLO game maybe shies away from throwing a game because they're frustrated or don't care.
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On January 12 2014 03:21 Holyflare wrote:
You are valuing his care for his team mate way more than you should. How about analysing what I've actually been saying instead of using the wifomy martyr as your basis for a town read?
I think we're both valuing things way more than we should, because mocsta either trolled with his vote or actually tried to kill himself. One way he's scum, the other way he's playing in such an illogical way that I don't think he cares who his scumreads are voting. Ascribing strategy and reasoning to him just getting himself lynched doesn't feel like a strong move for either of us, tbh.
I disagree with your characterization of followup on Derrida. Followup on a scumread is often townie. People do things all the time to "pressure" someone when it really isn't worth any pressure. It feels like it should be, so they take action, say there's some pressure, and that's mostly fine.
I disagree with you that scummocsta just digs a hole. Yes, a lot of his defense was just dumb comments tossed at you or him saying "you are wrong." That's a terrible way for a scum to defend himself. It's a terrible way for a town to defend himself. So all his responses to your wanting him lynched seem, to me, like the posts of someone who doesn't care about the game, but not from a specific alignment.
Disagree, as noted, that self-hammering is scum wanting to end the day early. It's someone who doesn't want to play.
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See the first sentence of my post.
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I would argue, and have argued, that a town player is more likely to not want to play than a scum player. So I do think it points more towards town than scum. You may disagree, and do.
I recognize that I am likely overvaluing that argument, but I do stand by it.
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On January 12 2014 05:58 Holyflare wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2014 05:19 Derrida wrote:On January 12 2014 03:35 Giggletummy wrote:
I would argue, and have argued, that a town player is more likely to not want to play than a scum player. So I do think it points more towards town than scum. You may disagree, and do.
I recognize that I am likely overvaluing that argument, but I do stand by it. Completely agree. This bandwagon on Mocsta is starting to feel increasingly scummy. You are actually both wrong. A town player most likely does not want to participate LATER on in the game. A towny on day 1 who has both of his scum team accusations on his wagon does not EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER self hammer. This is beyond ridiculous that you can think like this. There are 5 townies. There are 2 scum. Anyone who just frankly doesn't want to play a game of mafia is more likely to be town than mafia. Barring certain players with a reputation for hating playing scum, which I don't believe mocsta has, in any game a person who just gives up is more likely town.
I think they both exhibit different behavior as well. A scum player who does not want to play can just lurk. He's not helping his team, but at the very least he's not hurting it, and he 100% doesn't have to do jack. Town players may exhibit more frustration, fight getting lynched, give up, whatever. Personal opinion on this bit.
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We disagree. And it's not useful to continue.
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If he's mafia, there's one more. If he's not, there are two.
Derrida, what other games did you read, and what are a couple interesting things you found in those games? Also, you think mocsta is town. 3-4 people have voted for him, not counting himself. Out of that group, are some scum? All scum? None scum? Is rayn scum?
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On January 12 2014 05:30 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
Mocsta's return I eagerly await
in his death I shall not yet participate.
Much opinions have been given
I wish to who he thinks is the villain.
If he does not provide us with information
a scumclaim is the designation.
Time we do not lack
why the hurry to crack his sack? Artanis, sir, you rhyme quite well
But much on mocsta you do dwell.
Why care you 'bout his reads of scum
When this game he has been a bum?
Turn your verse to other names
What think you bout the man called rayn?
A scum before, but much he's typed
Do you still wish him set alight?
Derrida plays a different game
Than when in red we saw his name.
But Holyflare has got a point
And from this game D seems disjoint.
You wait for mocsta but I fear
He's made his thoughts on this game clear.
You think his reads will help your thoughts,
When on this game he's cast a pox?
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*puts on rayn mask*
You're just voting a dude you think is going to flip green?
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Posting like that is 80% of the way to claiming scum
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EPT
