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On December 03 2013 08:46 raynpelikoneet wrote:
LSB - Could you do some scumhunting instead of just mindlessly yelling everyone to massclaim? Like i know it's the best idea but when people are not willing to do it there is nothing you can do about it. Right now it seems like you are intentionally shouting for an idea that's pro-town but what you can never achieve. What's the point?
I think this is the most important thing that needs to get done and that's why I am pushing for it so hard. I do not understand why you think I should "give this up" an idea that you admit is "pro town". I am more concerned about doing things that will be very important to the town as a whole, and someone needs to do this and I decided to do it.
If you want a scum read I'd say I'd read you as red, I can understand if you are saying stop yelling for massclaim because it is bad for XYZ. But to say stop yelling for massclaim even though it is a good idea stinks of casual sabotage. I would rather have your support for a plan you admit is "pro town" rather than attempting to dissuade it before it is completed.
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On December 03 2013 08:45 Kurumi wrote:
Gut reads. Something just strikes me as odd, but there is no evidence to back it up, even for myself.
On December 03 2013 08:48 Kurumi wrote:
Oh I think I know where my thoughts went: since BC was downplaying Warwick he tried to make him look not that good and he fought with massclaims. It is like he wanted people to go for massclaim while securing Warwick. It is really not that great of a thought, but it made me stop for a while.
I am off to bed. But please don't fuck with me Kurumi. You don't just "call out scummy things when you see it". You cast a lot of suspicion on a many people without any follow up and with bad reasoning or just no reasoning at all. Don't call these gut reads. They are not gut reads, it's just bad shit. How do you want us to work with "amagad these guys that picked twice the same number are looking pretty scummy to me" and then a couple minutes later somebody ask you about your scumreads and those people don't even make the list anymore.
You are just spewing dumb "gutreads" that are not helping anybody. Except scum.
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On December 03 2013 08:53 justanothertownie wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2013 08:50 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Mass-claim will always be the best idea in games where there are mass roles. It's just.. it just is because it's easy to separate people from lying / telling the truth. And people who are telling the truth will work for town's plans. People who are lying are mafia. If mafia want's to lie they need to take a risk in "will i get caught doing this". Don't forget half of the abilities are hidden to us. It won't be that easy.
It doesn't matter if the setup is closed, open, or semi-open.
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On December 03 2013 08:53 LSB wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2013 08:46 raynpelikoneet wrote:
LSB - Could you do some scumhunting instead of just mindlessly yelling everyone to massclaim? Like i know it's the best idea but when people are not willing to do it there is nothing you can do about it. Right now it seems like you are intentionally shouting for an idea that's pro-town but what you can never achieve. What's the point? I think this is the most important thing that needs to get done and that's why I am pushing for it so hard. I do not understand why you think I should "give this up" an idea that you admit is "pro town". I am more concerned about doing things that will be very important to the town as a whole, and someone needs to do this and I decided to do it. If you want a scum read I'd say I'd read you as red, I can understand if you are saying stop yelling for massclaim because it is bad for XYZ. But to say stop yelling for massclaim even though it is a good idea stinks of casual sabotage. I would rather have your support for a plan you admit is "pro town" rather than attempting to dissuade it before it is completed.
There is a good mount of suspicion on you. If you don't talk about the alignment of others it is harder to tell if you are town or scum. So I think it is very reasonable to demand this.
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My name is VisceraEyes, and I agree that if you're a VT you should claim who you picked.
geript caught me out big time in Boardwalk by trying to pick a power that I picked. Through a good bit of behavioral analysis, he even got the thread to lynch me. None of that would have been possible if he'd kept his mouth shut about what role he tried to pick...because I had a plan for that role and town knowing I had it really fucked it over.
If you're a VT you should claim who you picked.
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On December 03 2013 08:56 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2013 08:53 justanothertownie wrote:On December 03 2013 08:50 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Mass-claim will always be the best idea in games where there are mass roles. It's just.. it just is because it's easy to separate people from lying / telling the truth. And people who are telling the truth will work for town's plans. People who are lying are mafia. If mafia want's to lie they need to take a risk in "will i get caught doing this". Don't forget half of the abilities are hidden to us. It won't be that easy. It doesn't matter if the setup is closed, open, or semi-open.
Hm... I don't know. I don't really see the big benefit. If scum knows who is who they can coordinate their actions much better.
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On December 03 2013 08:57 VisceraEyes wrote:
My name is VisceraEyes, and I agree that if you're a VT you should claim who you picked.
geript caught me out big time in Boardwalk by trying to pick a power that I picked. Through a good bit of behavioral analysis, he even got the thread to lynch me. None of that would have been possible if he'd kept his mouth shut about what role he tried to pick...because I had a plan for that role and town knowing I had it really fucked it over.
If you're a VT you should claim who you picked.
At the very least if you CLAIMED VT you should definitely do so.
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It doesn't even matter if they already claimed or not. ALL VTs should claim who they picked so we know what to expect. Scum can't just kill all the blues because some of them are likely blue right? We just need to know what to expect.
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The pressure is on though.
##vote: geript
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On December 03 2013 08:56 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2013 08:53 justanothertownie wrote:On December 03 2013 08:50 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Mass-claim will always be the best idea in games where there are mass roles. It's just.. it just is because it's easy to separate people from lying / telling the truth. And people who are telling the truth will work for town's plans. People who are lying are mafia. If mafia want's to lie they need to take a risk in "will i get caught doing this". Don't forget half of the abilities are hidden to us. It won't be that easy. It doesn't matter if the setup is closed, open, or semi-open.
but how do you hold people accountable for actions when we only know half of the actions in the game?
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On December 03 2013 08:59 justanothertownie wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2013 08:56 raynpelikoneet wrote:On December 03 2013 08:53 justanothertownie wrote:On December 03 2013 08:50 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Mass-claim will always be the best idea in games where there are mass roles. It's just.. it just is because it's easy to separate people from lying / telling the truth. And people who are telling the truth will work for town's plans. People who are lying are mafia. If mafia want's to lie they need to take a risk in "will i get caught doing this". Don't forget half of the abilities are hidden to us. It won't be that easy. It doesn't matter if the setup is closed, open, or semi-open. Hm... I don't know. I don't really see the big benefit. If scum knows who is who they can coordinate their actions much better.
Scum can always coordinate their actions well because they have a team. Cooperation is a MUST for the town when everyone has a role. Otherwise people will just screw each other over when they for example roleblock scummy people (who end up being town) who have roles that are good for town.
If we massclaim we can coordinate all actions at towns best interest. If someone does not do what they are supposed to, they risk of being lynched due to lying, it does not matter if they are town or scum, you just coordinate all the powers regardless of affiliation. Someone fucks up = lynch. Of course scum might lie and not get caught, but if they lie on N1 they misght get caught on N4 for example, when people flip and we are able to confirm roles/actions.
Knowing all actions and assumed roles at all times is highly beneficial because there is no room for scum to hide with power.
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On December 03 2013 08:48 sandroba wrote:
@LSB
MAN. You get no notifications this game. What happens is people will be informed they received X amounts of dmg and the results of their actions. Half the abilities of the heroes are unknown information. So you can't hold anyone accountable for anything. Please. Read the rules and think about your plan first.
I have read the rules, in fact I think you should go over the rules and abilities too as well as think for a bit before critiquing a plan.
What mass claims seeks to accomplish is twofold.
1) Firstly to confirm claims and locations of dangerous roles. For example my role can potentially be dangerous if I abuse it too much. A massclaim allows me to verify that I hold onto the role. We can verify this threefold. First of all we can look at the position on the list, that is a piece of public information. Second of all we can compare how much damage people took. For example if I lied about my damage and instead say I did 800 damage each, people would easily be able to tell. Tonight when I verify my role people will be able to verify how much damage I do also. Thirdly there are tracker roles so we can verify claims that way
2) To check the abilities of said dangerous roles and make sure they are not abused. The classic example is my role. If I use it only to verify the fact that I have the role, it is only a few instance of 50 damage. However if I did not claim and just spent my time running around laughing like an idiot, I could easily do 250 damage a night. We are significantly checking mafia KP.
Why we cannot accomplish these two objectives without a mass claim.
This is because there are roles that augment anothers power. My role is very meaningless by itself. But if you add on abilities that allow me to do more damage than usual, suddenly my damage is multiplied by a ton. Without a mass role claim mafia can easily hide a huge amount of damage through disruptive roles and agumenting them confusing the town. We need to know what we are facing, and who is controlling what to account for that.
Likewise without a role claim people could use their abilities with no fear, allowing mafia to have unchecked power. There is a huge accusation on Kurumi atm. What if Kurumi did not claim at all? and instead sat alone at night killing Koshi? This would be a serious problem and we would have no idea who was doing so much damage to an important role.
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On December 03 2013 09:04 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2013 08:59 justanothertownie wrote:On December 03 2013 08:56 raynpelikoneet wrote:On December 03 2013 08:53 justanothertownie wrote:On December 03 2013 08:50 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Mass-claim will always be the best idea in games where there are mass roles. It's just.. it just is because it's easy to separate people from lying / telling the truth. And people who are telling the truth will work for town's plans. People who are lying are mafia. If mafia want's to lie they need to take a risk in "will i get caught doing this". Don't forget half of the abilities are hidden to us. It won't be that easy. It doesn't matter if the setup is closed, open, or semi-open. Hm... I don't know. I don't really see the big benefit. If scum knows who is who they can coordinate their actions much better. Scum can always coordinate their actions well because they have a team. Cooperation is a MUST for the town when everyone has a role. Otherwise people will just screw each other over when they for example roleblock scummy people (who end up being town) who have roles that are good for town. If we massclaim we can coordinate all actions at towns best interest. If someone does not do what they are supposed to, they risk of being lynched due to lying, it does not matter if they are town or scum, you just coordinate all the powers regardless of affiliation. Someone fucks up = lynch. Of course scum might lie and not get caught, but if they lie on N1 they misght get caught on N4 for example, when people flip and we are able to confirm roles/actions. Knowing all actions and assumed roles at all times is highly beneficial because there is no room for scum to hide with power.
There is plenty of room for scum to hide. There is, in fact half a game's worth of roles for them to hide.
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On December 03 2013 09:04 jcarlsoniv wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2013 08:56 raynpelikoneet wrote:On December 03 2013 08:53 justanothertownie wrote:On December 03 2013 08:50 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Mass-claim will always be the best idea in games where there are mass roles. It's just.. it just is because it's easy to separate people from lying / telling the truth. And people who are telling the truth will work for town's plans. People who are lying are mafia. If mafia want's to lie they need to take a risk in "will i get caught doing this". Don't forget half of the abilities are hidden to us. It won't be that easy. It doesn't matter if the setup is closed, open, or semi-open. but how do you hold people accountable for actions when we only know half of the actions in the game?
Let's say you claim your second action is roleblock.
Later on in the game when there are like 8 people left, if something that's not a roleblock happens, and all other people's actions can be confirmed, you are lying. If you were supposed to roleblock X on N1 and you did not do so, you are lying.
It's really hard to balance with fakeclaiming as scum because you need to actually prove your role. Claim veteran and there is an unaccounted action, you are lying.
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United Kingdom36161 Posts
On December 03 2013 08:48 sandroba wrote:
@LSB
MAN. You get no notifications this game. What happens is people will be informed they received X amounts of dmg and the results of their actions. Half the abilities of the heroes are unknown information. So you can't hold anyone accountable for anything. Please. Read the rules and think about your plan first.
I think this is adequate enough reason not to go ahead with this.
I could talk about why I personally object but even that would give away information I don't want to give away.
Really this whole conversation needs to stop because it's not leading anywhere.
Any claimed VTs not saying what they tried to pick should be kicked in the balls, however.
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On December 03 2013 09:04 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2013 08:59 justanothertownie wrote:On December 03 2013 08:56 raynpelikoneet wrote:On December 03 2013 08:53 justanothertownie wrote:On December 03 2013 08:50 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Mass-claim will always be the best idea in games where there are mass roles. It's just.. it just is because it's easy to separate people from lying / telling the truth. And people who are telling the truth will work for town's plans. People who are lying are mafia. If mafia want's to lie they need to take a risk in "will i get caught doing this". Don't forget half of the abilities are hidden to us. It won't be that easy. It doesn't matter if the setup is closed, open, or semi-open. Hm... I don't know. I don't really see the big benefit. If scum knows who is who they can coordinate their actions much better. Scum can always coordinate their actions well because they have a team. Cooperation is a MUST for the town when everyone has a role. Otherwise people will just screw each other over when they for example roleblock scummy people (who end up being town) who have roles that are good for town. If we massclaim we can coordinate all actions at towns best interest. If someone does not do what they are supposed to, they risk of being lynched due to lying, it does not matter if they are town or scum, you just coordinate all the powers regardless of affiliation. Someone fucks up = lynch. Of course scum might lie and not get caught, but if they lie on N1 they misght get caught on N4 for example, when people flip and we are able to confirm roles/actions. Knowing all actions and assumed roles at all times is highly beneficial because there is no room for scum to hide with power.
Maybe you are right. But you are assuming town will be united in what they want the blue roles to do and I don't think it will. If there are different opinions on the actions it gets easier for scum.
If a majority agrees to a massclaim I will claim, ok?
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I have several hunches on why geript is mafia. A good amount of my argument and stance was elaborated on by jcarls (it's also in my filter if you need to find it).
Geript has been uncooperative also and I don't want him alive anyways. But I see him or jcarls being mafia. Jcarls makes more sense and I'd rather keep him alive in the event that he is town. If Geript is town, I'd rally on jcarls easily because although he makes sense, I don't like his patterns and the way he communicates his thoughts, but nonetheless they're somewhat substantial, atleast substantial enough to call out geript.
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so lets kill geript
ps. I'm not VT
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ahhhhh I should be working but I'm not so----Vote count:
VisceraEyes (0): raynpelikoneet
geript (3): Oatsmaster, jcarlsoniv, Kenpachi
Meapak_Zipph (1): Mocsta
jcarlsoniv (4): bumatlarge, raynpelikoneet, sandroba, geript
gtrsrs (2): Kurumi, VisceraEyes
Kurumi (2): Koshi, kushm4sta
bumatlarge (1): LSB
LSB (1): Risen
Mocsta (0): LSB
Not voting (16): SO many people
jcarlsoniv is currently set to be lynched.
Voting thread is here. Please make sure all of your votes go in there, they don't count otherwise. Voting is mandatory.
Day 1 ends in
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United Kingdom36161 Posts
On December 03 2013 09:09 Kenpachi wrote:
I have several hunches on why geript is mafia. A good amount of my argument and stance was elaborated on by jcarls (it's also in my filter if you need to find it).
Geript has been uncooperative also and I don't want him alive anyways. But I see him or jcarls being mafia. Jcarls makes more sense and I'd rather keep him alive in the event that he is town. If Geript is town, I'd rally on jcarls easily because although he makes sense, I don't like his patterns and the way he communicates his thoughts, but nonetheless they're somewhat substantial, atleast substantial enough to call out geript.
This is a pretty horrible post actually.
How does geript being town (potentially) make jcarl mafia? It simply doesn't in any way, other than the fact he accused him, which isn't enough for a total reversal of a read.
It feels like you're hedging your bets in a really hedgey way. Yuck yuck yuck.
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EPT
