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On November 21 2013 03:51 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Nah thrawn you are making things up.
Onegu what the hell are you doing? I'm all ears, im pretty tired but the gist went roughly as I remembered??
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On November 21 2013 03:58 Onegu wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2013 03:47 Mocsta wrote:
Wow Onegu really knows how to shit the thread.
Those reads were made void a long time ago.
If you want to stop wasting the time of a bunch of other people in the thread spoiler shit. There was no need for those reads to be unspoilered from their original state. I just pushed quote and then wrote. And alot of what I wrote stands true as your motives for writeing them are still real and they havent changed. And your reasons for makeing those reads are scummy.
Chortle
You realise you are getting lynched Day2 after Aquanim?
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On November 21 2013 03:59 Onegu wrote:Dont talk about ongoing games.
Im flipped dipshit.
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On November 21 2013 03:59 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2013 03:53 Mocsta wrote:On November 21 2013 03:51 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Nah thrawn you are making things up.
Onegu what the hell are you doing? I'm all ears, im pretty tired but the gist went roughly as I remembered?? He is seeing something that's not there. I said what i thought was good in him and what i didn't understand and questioned it. That's it. If he somehow twists it into "rayn says what i want to hear" there is nothing i can say about it but "no",
I'm gonna keep this convo on the backburner.
Right now im definitely have too high a post count to overall thread posts.
Really need more input from guys like LoneMeow, jampidampi, scibs, rean
and as little as possible from onegu.
Seems to me: that the lynch will be between Rean/Aquanim as the town is quite divided.
When I wake up, for those who thik Aquanim is town it would be great if they can comment why the think the thrawn case is void - saying "aqua is town" is not going to help us prevent a mislynch. MORE INFO, MOAR POWR !
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On November 21 2013 04:00 Onegu wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2013 03:59 Mocsta wrote:On November 21 2013 03:58 Onegu wrote:On November 21 2013 03:47 Mocsta wrote:
Wow Onegu really knows how to shit the thread.
Those reads were made void a long time ago.
If you want to stop wasting the time of a bunch of other people in the thread spoiler shit. There was no need for those reads to be unspoilered from their original state. I just pushed quote and then wrote. And alot of what I wrote stands true as your motives for writeing them are still real and they havent changed. And your reasons for makeing those reads are scummy. Chortle You realise you are getting lynched Day2 after Aquanim? Why not day 1 day one and aqua isnt scummy rean is so much worse than him.
I dont want to lynch you Day1. You could just be a doofus - you have the meta history for that.
And you not flipping has nothign to do with whether my flipped *scum* filter from lxiii is congruent with the filter from this game.
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On November 21 2013 04:01 JarJarDrinks wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2013 03:50 Mocsta wrote:
"Did you read the Thrawn case?" (on Aquanim)
Yeah, it seems like his reason is basically because aqua isn't scumhunting. I disagree. Aqua is all over Rean for similiar reasons that I (and several others) are. He agree's w/ me on the cora/sci situation, even if he doesn't quite think it makes cora scum like I do. I mean, a huge part of thrawns case is that Aqua is accusing Rean. Which I think is a very town thing to do.
Accusing Rean of what?
Even Rayn acknowledges that Aqua is non-committal and leaves a door open to give weight to Corazon?
Look *maybe* you are right, and im wrong ( i need another re-read)
As a side question:
How would you feel if I thought you were the next towniest guy after thrawn?
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On November 21 2013 07:43 Bereft wrote:
hey guys, I'm at work right now, but I'll be home in about 4 hours. have only skimmed the last few pages from my phone, but currently this is where I'm at:
town lean on: thrawn, scib, dude whose name starts with jamp or something, onegu, rayn
null on: mocsta, JJD, lone meow
leaning scum on: rean, cora, aqua
unclear to me why onegu is obv scum/2nd day lynch according to moc. I'll take a closer look at his filter tonight along with my null to scum reads and update who I'm comfortable lynching day 1.
This is a bad post.
Who posts such big lists like this 1/2way day 1? Especially with no context.
Aside from me/thrawn not being the same alignment on the list which is odd, what i find odder is the town lean:
On November 21 2013 07:43 Bereft wrote:
town lean on: onegu This makes zero sense.
I'm keen to hear some rational on this.
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On November 21 2013 08:00 raynpelikoneet wrote:It's a joke. 
Why are you OK with such a monstrosity of a post above (Referring to Bereft list contribution)
You of all players would have swarmed in to give a "grandpa mafia" speech.
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On November 21 2013 08:54 Bereft wrote:
@mocsta if I've been away from the thread all day, I don't see what's wrong with giving a stream of consciousness update on what I'm thinking, especially since I promise to follow it up once I'm home. lurkers are annoying because you have no idea where their heads at. now you guys know mine. with rationale to follow later of course.
I'd be curious to know whether thrown is joking around with the obv town comment or if he's 100% serious and why.
Thats cool dude. I was more emphasizing that I will be keeping a keen eye out for the followup reads.
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On November 21 2013 08:10 Aquanim wrote:+ Show Spoiler +So, these votes on me. Jampidampi+ Show Spoiler +On November 21 2013 00:22 jampidampi wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2013 18:24 thrawn2112 wrote:
jampidampi, have you noticed the elephant in the room?
It's over there >>>>>
What do you make of it? Assuming you mean your case on Aquanim. I like it. I especially like how it applies to Aquas play even after the case. ##Vote: AquanimHere's some more evidnce against Aquanim: Show nested quote +On November 20 2013 20:01 Aquanim wrote:Well, it looks like Jampidampi has run off without adressing the elephant. I'm not sure whether to be insulted. He'd better offer some more constructive opinions when he gets back, though. On November 20 2013 18:22 jampidampi wrote:@Sciberbia: My read on Corazon is not conclusive aka null. Slightly on the town side of null. + Show Spoiler +On November 20 2013 12:37 cDgCorazon wrote:
I took a shower. Sorry for not wanting to smell bad.
Moc, I'm quite concerned that you have already used up >25% of your "self-allotted posts". If you're going to start spamming, it's going to be a problem.
Now to my goals/early game statements:
1. I'm not gonna make any meta crap posts. TBH I don't remember anyone's meta and it's ridiculously stupid logic. I'm not going to stand for it and I don't think you guys should either.
2. I'm voting for the scummiest person. My last game was Titanic and it came down to 3-4 days of "X is scum, Y/Z/Q is scum as well". That led the town way off of the path and allowed my scum team the easiest scum win in a very long time. I don't care if they're not on the two lynch trains that are going to form. It's not instant majority so as long as I feel like I'm voting for the scummiest person in my opinion, I'm going to be happy with my vote.
3. I'm going to do my best to not be just an onlooker. I'm gonna try and facilitate discussion and ask a lot of questions instead of just answering questions and throw my ideas out there and just create more chaos.
On that note, sciberia needs to stop analyzing the first page so hard and just discuss. We're not going to find scum on the first page. You guys just need to talk instead of being at each other's throats 30 minutes into the game.
Don't like this post. Doesn't say anything with a substance. + Show Spoiler +On November 20 2013 13:24 cDgCorazon wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2013 13:20 Aquanim wrote:
@Corazon
I'd like you to elaborate more on why you think sciberbia is scum. I don't entirely understand your argument at present. He's trying to get us to tunnel each other early so he can just sit around and piggyback on town lynches and point the finger at others. This is demonstrated when he essentially copies my post asking thrawn if he was a mason (deliberately, his post was at least 2-3 minutes after mine) and then decides that he can take my words and twist them when I pressure him about it. This is what troubles me about sciberia right now. Don't understand what he is trying to say with this. If "us" refers to Scib and Cora, how does he come to the conclusion that Scib can "sit around and piggyback on town lynches and point the finger at others" if Scib is tunneling Cora? On one hand Cora could be a townie caught in a emotional tunnel. This falls in line with his tone when directly responding to Scib. On the other hand he could be scum. Reserving judgement until he returns and properly answears Sciberbias case and this post. @Jampidampi: This reads to me like two quotes demonstrating why you don't like Corazon's play so far. How does that leave you on the town side of null? I think you need to flesh this out some more. This post is odd. It feels like Aqua really wanted to say the first paragraph and inserted the second one to make a post with more substance. If Aqua wanted to address my post with the second pararaph, why wait nearly two hours? Since the motive of this post clearly wasn't to adress my post, it must lie withing the first paragrapgh. The first paragrapgh is just throwing some dirt onto me without stating explicit suspection. The motive behind it is to make me look worse. That, ladies and gentleman, is a scum motive. @LoneMeow: Could be more specific about what makes you think Aqua is town? What do you think about the case on him? Basically, it took me two hours to determine that you weren't coming back and wouldn't elaborate on that point on your own. If you were going to explain yourself without my prompting I wanted to give you that opportunity. Obviously you didn't, and I can't help but notice you haven't answered my question even now. @Jampidampi I'd still like you to answer my question. ReanI already knew when I left to sleep that Rean would be voting for me when I came back. Based on his earlier suspicions of me it's the obvious next step to sheep a case someone has obligingly made for him, regardless of his alignment. + Show Spoiler +On November 21 2013 03:04 Rean wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2013 16:42 Aquanim wrote:On November 20 2013 16:08 Rean wrote:... On November 20 2013 15:57 Aquanim wrote:
@Mocsta
If Corazon and sciberbia are both scum, what was their motive for going after one another as they have so early? It's focused a lot of attention on the two of them, and I can't imagine that being what scum wants.
@Rean
Why do you want to see me in particular pressured? To me you look like you're in the position that if I were scum I'd love: sit back, ask some questions, give some non-commital opinions from time to time and earn easy town credit while not under any real pressure. So one of your questions back at you: if you had a vig shot that only hit scum, who would you aim it at right now and why? Probably you. I don't like how easily you swallowed Corazon's case on sciberbia, given that I felt it was sketchy at best. I also don't see any particular purpose behind your posting so far - you've offered some observations when prompted but I don't see you trying to get more information and learn more about the motivations of other players, besides some half-assed and half-hearted pressuring of myself (which you tried to prompt someone else to do). In fact, the more I think about your filter the less I like it. ##Vote: ReanI'd give some consideration to shooting Corazon but even if I was convinced he was scum I think I'd learn much more from lynching him than by simply shooting him. How unexpected. You're put under pressure and you instantly accuse me to try to prove me wrong about you, but 2 posts later you're already looking for arguments to back out of it like + Show Spoiler +On November 20 2013 16:48 Aquanim wrote:
Short answer to Thrawn's case:
I've been messing around a bit and not committing much because I'm concerned, having looked at the players who are yet to post, that if we present them with a fait accompli lynch on Corazon they'd just sheep and we'd learn nothing about them today. I figured that by holding off on my vote and being able to address them from a position of neutrality I might be able to get something out of them.
Obviously this plan has backfired, but I figure if you're going to come after me that gives them an interesting choice to make so hopefully we'll still get something useful out of them.
For the same reason, I voted Rean above for the purposes of running a second wagon and introducing a choice. I'd cheerfully vote Corazon as well, his failure to actually vote for sciberbia despite his constant accusations is pretty damning. . And then you go for Corazon with some not terribly convincing arguments such as Show nested quote +On November 20 2013 18:04 Aquanim wrote:The fact that Corazon, despite apparently believing his case, is not committing to it by voting for sciberbia? THAT is scum-indicative. This seems awfully weak to me, a case on him at this point is already applying pressure by focussing discussion on him and trying to catch him on a lie. While a vote does put a little extra pressure on it I think saying it's scum-indicative not to vote is really overrating it's importance. This, combined with what Thrawn already said (not gonna waste time parroting), really gives me a bad feeling about you. Enough for a ##Vote: AquanimSome other things I really want to adress: Show nested quote +On November 20 2013 16:55 sciberbia wrote:
EBWOP
Oh yea one other I wanted to reply to was your criticism that I ignored Cora for a while. I stopped prodding Cora because other people were doing a fine job of it and I thought it'd be more productive for them to ask questions such as "explain why you think this about sciberbia" than me doing it. Also I was getting increasingly suspicious of him so I decided to just observe and include my comprehensive thoughts in a later case.
I didn't want to miss the opportunity to question Rean who is probably my second strongest read right now. I find Aquanim's above post on him agreeable. Apparently I'm his second strongest scumread, yet all he's done is ask me a single question very early on in the thread. He has made practically no effort to actually do anything about his "second strongest scum-read". I don't like this at all. Please do explain Sciberbia. Show nested quote +On November 20 2013 17:20 jampidampi wrote:On November 20 2013 13:19 Rean wrote:On November 20 2013 13:14 Bereft wrote:
he wasn't actually calling mocsta scum. just you.
i don't see the distinction between mocsta's explicitly stating and sciberia's "window looking". how were they different? could you expand pls? He means that Mocsta is going around calling people scum or town straightup, unlike Sciberia who is more held back. At this point, what in Sciberias posting came to you as held back? That he, compared to Mocsta going around calling people "confirmed town" and naming scumteams 5 posts in, seemed to be taking it easy and more the "is most likely to be scum" route. In hindsight held back is probably not the phrase I'm looking for but you know what I mean. Okay. 1) I'm not backing out of my read on Rean, I'm quite confident he is scum. At the time, I was quite confident on both him and Corazon being scum, and since there were already votes on Corazon I decided I'd vote for Rean to pressure him too. I don't see what problem anybody has with that. 2) "Haven't done anything about my second-strongest scumread"? I put a vote on Rean after satisfying myself he wasn't going to contribute anything meaningful without a nudge, and then he hadn't come back and replied by the time I went to sleep so there was nothing further to do. CorazonI also figured Corazon's vote was coming, my wagon being a nice alternative to his. + Show Spoiler +On November 21 2013 01:16 cDgCorazon wrote:On Aqua (again): My problem with Aquanim is that he goes from a very neutral stance on me: Show nested quote +On November 20 2013 13:45 Aquanim wrote:On November 20 2013 13:36 Rean wrote:
Aquanim, you're constantly asking but never saying much about what you think. Gimme one town and one scum and reasons why please. I reckon Thrawn's town because I liked the vote on Corazon. That is the kind of action which will get us doing truly productive things. (His unvote doesn't change that.) As for scum, I'm not sure yet. Not enough information. I don't much like Corazon's case on sciberbia but I can think of reasons why Corazon would make that argument as town, regardless of how good it is. I'm still null on Corazon but I'm very interested in what he chooses to do next.I still want an answer to this from you: On November 20 2013 13:04 Aquanim wrote:On November 20 2013 12:55 Rean wrote:On November 20 2013 12:52 Bereft wrote:
Rean, what do you think of Mocsta thus far? Talks a lot, seems awfully certain of everything he says. @Rean Given this, which way are you leaning on Mocsta in terms of alignment? To an all-out "he's scum!" stance without really having a transition between the two stances. It really troubles me that this was only after all of the cases on me came out. It just looks like Aqua just wants to follow thread sentiment for the big issues and branch out only for things related to his "reads". For example, his case on Rean screams to me that he wants to attack Rean for defending me. His case is weak and he blatantly lies about Rean's questioning of him and calls them not important when in fact he failed to read the reason they were asked in the first place: Show nested quote +On November 20 2013 13:36 Rean wrote:
Aquanim, you're constantly asking but never saying much about what you think. Gimme one town and one scum and reasons why please. It's obvious that Aquanim did not read the reason that Rean threw out this post and simply calls Rean scummy for asking this question. This was a good post because Rean wanted to continue discussion and get a read on Aqua who he had felt was not contributing enough information and enough opinions to the conversation. The fact that Aqua calls this scummy is absurd and can only be attributed to his own scumminess. TL;DR Changes opinion on me to follow thread sentiment Attacks Rean (and says his question about town/scum reads accomplishes nothing when in fact it does) for defending me This guy is scum I'm confident enough in this case to throw a ##Vote: Aquanim out. 1) I changed my opinion on Corazon because new information arose (in this case, that there continued to be no purpose behind his case on sciberbia) 2) I believe my actual stated opinion on Rean's question was that it was an easy question for scum to ask - which is in fact true. I don't claim it accomplished nothing - it is indeed a question I ask often as town. It is a question I would ask often if I was scum, too. The point was that that question was Rean's ONLY attempt to draw information out of the thread, which gives me no reason to think he's town. 3) This guy isn't scum and 4) It's interesting (and scummy) that all of Corazon's reasons for thinking I'm scum are in some way linked to "attacking Corazon" or "attacking people defending Corazon". RaynI don't think there was anything in particular new to address from rayn's vote. If anyone has anything further for me to adress I'll be around to answer. Aquanim, I know you are getting abused left, right and center but I am willing to listen to you.
Help me out please:
On November 21 2013 08:10 Aquanim wrote:
*snip*
Corazon
I also figured Corazon's vote was coming, my wagon being a nice alternative to his.
*snip*
1) I changed my opinion on Corazon because new information arose (in this case, that there continued to be no purpose behind his case on sciberbia)
2) I believe my actual stated opinion on Rean's question was that it was an easy question for scum to ask - which is in fact true. I don't claim it accomplished nothing - it is indeed a question I ask often as town. It is a question I would ask often if I was scum, too. The point was that that question was Rean's ONLY attempt to draw information out of the thread, which gives me no reason to think he's town.
3) This guy isn't scum
and 4) It's interesting (and scummy) that all of Corazon's reasons for thinking I'm scum are in some way linked to "attacking Corazon" or "attacking people defending Corazon".
A (red) - I assume the guy that isn't scum is Corazon; otherwise the only person this could be referring to contextually is Rean (which makes zero sense)
B (blue) - If you can state openly Corazon *is* town, why do you proceed with point 4 where you dilute that read? Quite an odd sequence in my mind.
C (green) - I can't follow the progression to this post:
On November 21 2013 08:51 Aquanim wrote:<To Corazon> I'm not sure there's any point in talking to you since 1) you're likely scum and 2) you've already made up your mind apparently. + Show Spoiler [justification] +Actually, you know what? Try justifying some of your wild claims first.
I've explained that I was waiting to see if you were going to back up your sciberbia case with a vote, and when you didn't I became much more suspicious of you. In what way is that smoke and mirrors?
What is your evidence that I wanted town to waste time arguing about you?
My attacking Rean WAS an answer to his question. He wanted to know my scumread - and it was Rean himself. I also had a scumread on you but I thought it would be more useful and I'd learn more by pushing Rean at that time, as I've explained.
Would you care to further explain why you think the argument why Rean is scum is weaker than the argument why I am? You've said that without actually justifying why you think it's so.
Oh, and why shouldn't I try to change the lynch subject when most everyone is voting for me?
Yes there is some justification but this is OMGUS at its best.
I also know from the standard of play that you judge others that you would not fall prey to this type of behavior (this I am certain of) henceforth, I can not follow the progression of A to B to C.
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On November 21 2013 09:35 Aquanim wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On November 21 2013 09:34 Mocsta wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2013 08:10 Aquanim wrote:+ Show Spoiler +So, these votes on me. Jampidampi+ Show Spoiler +On November 21 2013 00:22 jampidampi wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2013 18:24 thrawn2112 wrote:
jampidampi, have you noticed the elephant in the room?
It's over there >>>>>
What do you make of it? Assuming you mean your case on Aquanim. I like it. I especially like how it applies to Aquas play even after the case. ##Vote: AquanimHere's some more evidnce against Aquanim: Show nested quote +On November 20 2013 20:01 Aquanim wrote:Well, it looks like Jampidampi has run off without adressing the elephant. I'm not sure whether to be insulted. He'd better offer some more constructive opinions when he gets back, though. On November 20 2013 18:22 jampidampi wrote:@Sciberbia: My read on Corazon is not conclusive aka null. Slightly on the town side of null. + Show Spoiler +On November 20 2013 12:37 cDgCorazon wrote:
I took a shower. Sorry for not wanting to smell bad.
Moc, I'm quite concerned that you have already used up >25% of your "self-allotted posts". If you're going to start spamming, it's going to be a problem.
Now to my goals/early game statements:
1. I'm not gonna make any meta crap posts. TBH I don't remember anyone's meta and it's ridiculously stupid logic. I'm not going to stand for it and I don't think you guys should either.
2. I'm voting for the scummiest person. My last game was Titanic and it came down to 3-4 days of "X is scum, Y/Z/Q is scum as well". That led the town way off of the path and allowed my scum team the easiest scum win in a very long time. I don't care if they're not on the two lynch trains that are going to form. It's not instant majority so as long as I feel like I'm voting for the scummiest person in my opinion, I'm going to be happy with my vote.
3. I'm going to do my best to not be just an onlooker. I'm gonna try and facilitate discussion and ask a lot of questions instead of just answering questions and throw my ideas out there and just create more chaos.
On that note, sciberia needs to stop analyzing the first page so hard and just discuss. We're not going to find scum on the first page. You guys just need to talk instead of being at each other's throats 30 minutes into the game.
Don't like this post. Doesn't say anything with a substance. + Show Spoiler +On November 20 2013 13:24 cDgCorazon wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2013 13:20 Aquanim wrote:
@Corazon
I'd like you to elaborate more on why you think sciberbia is scum. I don't entirely understand your argument at present. He's trying to get us to tunnel each other early so he can just sit around and piggyback on town lynches and point the finger at others. This is demonstrated when he essentially copies my post asking thrawn if he was a mason (deliberately, his post was at least 2-3 minutes after mine) and then decides that he can take my words and twist them when I pressure him about it. This is what troubles me about sciberia right now. Don't understand what he is trying to say with this. If "us" refers to Scib and Cora, how does he come to the conclusion that Scib can "sit around and piggyback on town lynches and point the finger at others" if Scib is tunneling Cora? On one hand Cora could be a townie caught in a emotional tunnel. This falls in line with his tone when directly responding to Scib. On the other hand he could be scum. Reserving judgement until he returns and properly answears Sciberbias case and this post. @Jampidampi: This reads to me like two quotes demonstrating why you don't like Corazon's play so far. How does that leave you on the town side of null? I think you need to flesh this out some more. This post is odd. It feels like Aqua really wanted to say the first paragraph and inserted the second one to make a post with more substance. If Aqua wanted to address my post with the second pararaph, why wait nearly two hours? Since the motive of this post clearly wasn't to adress my post, it must lie withing the first paragrapgh. The first paragrapgh is just throwing some dirt onto me without stating explicit suspection. The motive behind it is to make me look worse. That, ladies and gentleman, is a scum motive. @LoneMeow: Could be more specific about what makes you think Aqua is town? What do you think about the case on him? Basically, it took me two hours to determine that you weren't coming back and wouldn't elaborate on that point on your own. If you were going to explain yourself without my prompting I wanted to give you that opportunity. Obviously you didn't, and I can't help but notice you haven't answered my question even now. @Jampidampi I'd still like you to answer my question. ReanI already knew when I left to sleep that Rean would be voting for me when I came back. Based on his earlier suspicions of me it's the obvious next step to sheep a case someone has obligingly made for him, regardless of his alignment. + Show Spoiler +On November 21 2013 03:04 Rean wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2013 16:42 Aquanim wrote:On November 20 2013 16:08 Rean wrote:... On November 20 2013 15:57 Aquanim wrote:
@Mocsta
If Corazon and sciberbia are both scum, what was their motive for going after one another as they have so early? It's focused a lot of attention on the two of them, and I can't imagine that being what scum wants.
@Rean
Why do you want to see me in particular pressured? To me you look like you're in the position that if I were scum I'd love: sit back, ask some questions, give some non-commital opinions from time to time and earn easy town credit while not under any real pressure. So one of your questions back at you: if you had a vig shot that only hit scum, who would you aim it at right now and why? Probably you. I don't like how easily you swallowed Corazon's case on sciberbia, given that I felt it was sketchy at best. I also don't see any particular purpose behind your posting so far - you've offered some observations when prompted but I don't see you trying to get more information and learn more about the motivations of other players, besides some half-assed and half-hearted pressuring of myself (which you tried to prompt someone else to do). In fact, the more I think about your filter the less I like it. ##Vote: ReanI'd give some consideration to shooting Corazon but even if I was convinced he was scum I think I'd learn much more from lynching him than by simply shooting him. How unexpected. You're put under pressure and you instantly accuse me to try to prove me wrong about you, but 2 posts later you're already looking for arguments to back out of it like + Show Spoiler +On November 20 2013 16:48 Aquanim wrote:
Short answer to Thrawn's case:
I've been messing around a bit and not committing much because I'm concerned, having looked at the players who are yet to post, that if we present them with a fait accompli lynch on Corazon they'd just sheep and we'd learn nothing about them today. I figured that by holding off on my vote and being able to address them from a position of neutrality I might be able to get something out of them.
Obviously this plan has backfired, but I figure if you're going to come after me that gives them an interesting choice to make so hopefully we'll still get something useful out of them.
For the same reason, I voted Rean above for the purposes of running a second wagon and introducing a choice. I'd cheerfully vote Corazon as well, his failure to actually vote for sciberbia despite his constant accusations is pretty damning. . And then you go for Corazon with some not terribly convincing arguments such as Show nested quote +On November 20 2013 18:04 Aquanim wrote:The fact that Corazon, despite apparently believing his case, is not committing to it by voting for sciberbia? THAT is scum-indicative. This seems awfully weak to me, a case on him at this point is already applying pressure by focussing discussion on him and trying to catch him on a lie. While a vote does put a little extra pressure on it I think saying it's scum-indicative not to vote is really overrating it's importance. This, combined with what Thrawn already said (not gonna waste time parroting), really gives me a bad feeling about you. Enough for a ##Vote: AquanimSome other things I really want to adress: Show nested quote +On November 20 2013 16:55 sciberbia wrote:
EBWOP
Oh yea one other I wanted to reply to was your criticism that I ignored Cora for a while. I stopped prodding Cora because other people were doing a fine job of it and I thought it'd be more productive for them to ask questions such as "explain why you think this about sciberbia" than me doing it. Also I was getting increasingly suspicious of him so I decided to just observe and include my comprehensive thoughts in a later case.
I didn't want to miss the opportunity to question Rean who is probably my second strongest read right now. I find Aquanim's above post on him agreeable. Apparently I'm his second strongest scumread, yet all he's done is ask me a single question very early on in the thread. He has made practically no effort to actually do anything about his "second strongest scum-read". I don't like this at all. Please do explain Sciberbia. Show nested quote +On November 20 2013 17:20 jampidampi wrote:On November 20 2013 13:19 Rean wrote:On November 20 2013 13:14 Bereft wrote:
he wasn't actually calling mocsta scum. just you.
i don't see the distinction between mocsta's explicitly stating and sciberia's "window looking". how were they different? could you expand pls? He means that Mocsta is going around calling people scum or town straightup, unlike Sciberia who is more held back. At this point, what in Sciberias posting came to you as held back? That he, compared to Mocsta going around calling people "confirmed town" and naming scumteams 5 posts in, seemed to be taking it easy and more the "is most likely to be scum" route. In hindsight held back is probably not the phrase I'm looking for but you know what I mean. Okay. 1) I'm not backing out of my read on Rean, I'm quite confident he is scum. At the time, I was quite confident on both him and Corazon being scum, and since there were already votes on Corazon I decided I'd vote for Rean to pressure him too. I don't see what problem anybody has with that. 2) "Haven't done anything about my second-strongest scumread"? I put a vote on Rean after satisfying myself he wasn't going to contribute anything meaningful without a nudge, and then he hadn't come back and replied by the time I went to sleep so there was nothing further to do. CorazonI also figured Corazon's vote was coming, my wagon being a nice alternative to his. + Show Spoiler +On November 21 2013 01:16 cDgCorazon wrote:On Aqua (again): My problem with Aquanim is that he goes from a very neutral stance on me: Show nested quote +On November 20 2013 13:45 Aquanim wrote:On November 20 2013 13:36 Rean wrote:
Aquanim, you're constantly asking but never saying much about what you think. Gimme one town and one scum and reasons why please. I reckon Thrawn's town because I liked the vote on Corazon. That is the kind of action which will get us doing truly productive things. (His unvote doesn't change that.) As for scum, I'm not sure yet. Not enough information. I don't much like Corazon's case on sciberbia but I can think of reasons why Corazon would make that argument as town, regardless of how good it is. I'm still null on Corazon but I'm very interested in what he chooses to do next.I still want an answer to this from you: On November 20 2013 13:04 Aquanim wrote:On November 20 2013 12:55 Rean wrote:On November 20 2013 12:52 Bereft wrote:
Rean, what do you think of Mocsta thus far? Talks a lot, seems awfully certain of everything he says. @Rean Given this, which way are you leaning on Mocsta in terms of alignment? To an all-out "he's scum!" stance without really having a transition between the two stances. It really troubles me that this was only after all of the cases on me came out. It just looks like Aqua just wants to follow thread sentiment for the big issues and branch out only for things related to his "reads". For example, his case on Rean screams to me that he wants to attack Rean for defending me. His case is weak and he blatantly lies about Rean's questioning of him and calls them not important when in fact he failed to read the reason they were asked in the first place: Show nested quote +On November 20 2013 13:36 Rean wrote:
Aquanim, you're constantly asking but never saying much about what you think. Gimme one town and one scum and reasons why please. It's obvious that Aquanim did not read the reason that Rean threw out this post and simply calls Rean scummy for asking this question. This was a good post because Rean wanted to continue discussion and get a read on Aqua who he had felt was not contributing enough information and enough opinions to the conversation. The fact that Aqua calls this scummy is absurd and can only be attributed to his own scumminess. TL;DR Changes opinion on me to follow thread sentiment Attacks Rean (and says his question about town/scum reads accomplishes nothing when in fact it does) for defending me This guy is scum I'm confident enough in this case to throw a ##Vote: Aquanim out. 1) I changed my opinion on Corazon because new information arose (in this case, that there continued to be no purpose behind his case on sciberbia) 2) I believe my actual stated opinion on Rean's question was that it was an easy question for scum to ask - which is in fact true. I don't claim it accomplished nothing - it is indeed a question I ask often as town. It is a question I would ask often if I was scum, too. The point was that that question was Rean's ONLY attempt to draw information out of the thread, which gives me no reason to think he's town. 3) This guy isn't scum and 4) It's interesting (and scummy) that all of Corazon's reasons for thinking I'm scum are in some way linked to "attacking Corazon" or "attacking people defending Corazon". RaynI don't think there was anything in particular new to address from rayn's vote. If anyone has anything further for me to adress I'll be around to answer. Aquanim, I know you are getting abused left, right and center but I am willing to listen to you. Help me out please: Show nested quote +On November 21 2013 08:10 Aquanim wrote:
*snip*
Corazon
I also figured Corazon's vote was coming, my wagon being a nice alternative to his.
*snip*
1) I changed my opinion on Corazon because new information arose (in this case, that there continued to be no purpose behind his case on sciberbia)
2) I believe my actual stated opinion on Rean's question was that it was an easy question for scum to ask - which is in fact true. I don't claim it accomplished nothing - it is indeed a question I ask often as town. It is a question I would ask often if I was scum, too. The point was that that question was Rean's ONLY attempt to draw information out of the thread, which gives me no reason to think he's town.
3) This guy isn't scum
and 4) It's interesting (and scummy) that all of Corazon's reasons for thinking I'm scum are in some way linked to "attacking Corazon" or "attacking people defending Corazon". A (red) - I assume the guy that isn't scum is Corazon; otherwise the only person this could be referring to contextually is Rean (which makes zero sense) B (blue) - If you can state openly Corazon *is* town, why do you proceed with point 4 where you dilute that read? Quite an odd sequence in my mind. C (green) - I can't follow the progression to this post: Show nested quote +On November 21 2013 08:51 Aquanim wrote:<To Corazon> I'm not sure there's any point in talking to you since 1) you're likely scum and 2) you've already made up your mind apparently. + Show Spoiler [justification] +Actually, you know what? Try justifying some of your wild claims first.
I've explained that I was waiting to see if you were going to back up your sciberbia case with a vote, and when you didn't I became much more suspicious of you. In what way is that smoke and mirrors?
What is your evidence that I wanted town to waste time arguing about you?
My attacking Rean WAS an answer to his question. He wanted to know my scumread - and it was Rean himself. I also had a scumread on you but I thought it would be more useful and I'd learn more by pushing Rean at that time, as I've explained.
Would you care to further explain why you think the argument why Rean is scum is weaker than the argument why I am? You've said that without actually justifying why you think it's so.
Oh, and why shouldn't I try to change the lynch subject when most everyone is voting for me? Yes there is some justification but this is OMGUS at its best. I also know from the standard of play that you judge others that you would not fall prey to this type of behavior (this I am certain of) henceforth, I can not follow the progression of A to B to C. The red: Corazon's third argument why I was scum is that "this guy [Aquanim] is scum". I was replying to that point in a tongue-in-cheek fashion. OK,
I am about to do another re-read now I got 3hrs of sleep 
Sorry to beat the drum that has been asked several times, I just want a concise summary of your stances so I can cross-reference when I read.
(1) You have had a mild to now strong scum read on Corazon basically all game (developed to strong last say 8 hrs)
(2) You have a mild to now strong scum read on rean basically all game
(3) I dont think there are opinions on anything else?
+ please throw out a read on JJD/Onegu.
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On November 21 2013 09:41 Aquanim wrote:
To elaborate further, the "this guy" I was referring to was myself.
That was transparent from the first explanation.
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Unofficial Vote Count:
corazon: (1) thrawn, mocsta, sciberbia,
aquanim: (6) thrawn, mocsta, jampidampi, corazon, rean, rayn,
rean: (2) aquanim, JJD, rayn,
Yet to vote: Bereft, Onegu, LoneMeow
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Aqua
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=20266365
please - I know its small and annoying but I am slightly brain dead right now. I need the help.
Rayn, I think this line of questioning needs to stop because its not tending towards an alignment indicative response.
You are trying to catch him out in a lie and both playing cat/mouse.
Similar to JJD with corazon tomorrow.
In the end, there is no need to argue with your scum read that they are scum when 50% of the thread is voting that scum read.
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On November 21 2013 10:08 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Mocsta i'm done arguing about it because Aquanim is giving different answers to the same question when i don't buy his first one. I am pretty sure i am right on this.
OK just checked OP: so we need one more vote to receive majority (7/12)
Carry on.
(I thought the deal was done, so this was just clogging up the thread but my bad)
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On November 21 2013 10:08 Aquanim wrote:Yeah, I'm getting to it. I'm reassessing my reads on Corazon and Rean as well, so it's taking some time.
lol. i didnt need a reassessment. i just needed confirmation of your stances in the past.
thanks anyways.
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Ok Sciberbia, interesting tidbid.
Onegu is a useless town player that is quite lurky and never has town credit to push his reads.
As scum he maximises on that uselessness, but is also a major proponent of bussing.
Thus, the extension aligns somewhat with your expectation that Cora/Rean/Onegu is a team.
I will be keen to see your updated reads on those 2.
I dont consider myself to be bussed due to the way Onegu has gone about it - its been clearly a smear campaign. + my role PM naturally.
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On November 21 2013 10:28 JarJarDrinks wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2013 09:31 raynpelikoneet wrote:On November 21 2013 08:57 raynpelikoneet wrote:So hey, you might want to explain this Aquanim. Here you seem to be agreeing with this: On November 20 2013 12:37 cDgCorazon wrote:
...
2. I'm voting for the scummiest person. My last game was Titanic and it came down to 3-4 days of "X is scum, Y/Z/Q is scum as well". That led the town way off of the path and allowed my scum team the easiest scum win in a very long time. I don't care if they're not on the two lynch trains that are going to form. It's not instant majority so as long as I feel like I'm voting for the scummiest person in my opinion, I'm going to be happy with my vote.
this. If I see one more person go "X/Y/Z is scumteam GG NO RE #MANNERMULES"... (especially when X/Y/Z are each and every one town...) /rant Then you proceed on voting for your non-top scumread. On November 21 2013 08:34 Aquanim wrote:
Once again, my scumread on Rean was of almost equal strength to that which I had on Corazon. Why the contradiction? This is the best case in this game. Really, cause I think this case sucks. @ first I read it and thought that top bolded quote was from aqua and thought "yeah, that is pretty shifty. But no shiftier than how Rean said he was gonna vote for people that post meaningless one-liners and then proceed to make a bunch of meaningless one-line posts. But that wasn't even aquanims quote. He was just agreeing w/ the general sentiment. I don't how you can see that post and believe that aqua was saying that he was always gonna vote his top scumread.
No need to be so condescending dude.
Rayn was trying to catch out Aquanim in a lie and tends to have very 'focused' reads anyways.
My question to you is whether you think Rayn is confirmation biased with this push; or intentionally painting his posts to suit his argument.
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JJD
Everything I do, I do for the town
As an aside,
the discussion about post restriction is so stupid and non-alignment indicative and needs to be dropped.
- it was self-imposed
- i wasnt near my limit
- i didnt need a baby sitter telling me when i hit the cap.. i was tracking it myself
*if* and its a big *if*
I hit the post limit and stopped contributing: sure, then it becomes scummy
until then its completely USELESS discussing it.
+
Sciberbia has a point, onegu raises 3 people as scum and then uses such a useless/stupid metric (post restrictions) to blindly tunnel me. Then he puts all this effort into giving opposite reads to a spoilered post that was already void?
How has he contributed to lynching scum?
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EPT
