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On November 20 2013 17:30 Mocsta wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2013 16:48 Aquanim wrote:
I'm about as confident that Rean is scum as Corazon, perhaps a little less, which is compensated by the advantages of opening up a second wagon. Why feel the need to build a case and *vote* for Rean instead of produce a series of questioning aimed at discerning his alignment? If anything a vote/case on him could make him harder to read as it puts him on the alert??
That was indeed a concern of mine which is why I didn't go after him earlier, but as a townie I have to make a case and throw down a vote sooner or later to demonstrate that I'm doing my job.
In fact, I rather think I held off for too long, given the current state of your read on me...
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@jampidampi
Please give your read on Cora.
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EBWOP:
You could say that by pushing him further I might be able to demonstrate my towniness without playing my hand. The problem with that is that
1) I still wouldn't be publically comitting to anything, which leaves me still with the problem of demonstrating my towniness.
2) His answers to the questions I'd asked already were so lacking that I didn't think there was much to be gained by continuing with that approach.
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On November 20 2013 17:33 Mocsta wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2013 17:29 jampidampi wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On November 20 2013 17:24 Mocsta wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2013 17:20 jampidampi wrote:On November 20 2013 13:19 Rean wrote:On November 20 2013 13:14 Bereft wrote:
he wasn't actually calling mocsta scum. just you.
i don't see the distinction between mocsta's explicitly stating and sciberia's "window looking". how were they different? could you expand pls? He means that Mocsta is going around calling people scum or town straightup, unlike Sciberia who is more held back. At this point, what in Sciberias posting came to you as held back? Hi jampidampi, Help me out please. Firstly, I assume you have read the whole thread, thus consider this post to be significant enough to warrant being your introduction post? Secondly, Are you querying Rean for information about Rean or Sciberbia? I'm asking him about his thought process. I find that "held back" is a very interesting way to describe Sciberias play up to that point, imo he was one of the most direct poeple at that time. OK, thanks. Have you read the whole thread? Is it safe to assume that because you are "intrigued" by Rean, you are in any agreement with Aquanim case on Rean?
Yes I have read the thread once for a sense of game flow. Rereading now with actual thought.
Aquas case has some merit to it if Reans reasons for thinking Sciberbia was "held back" are not good. If Rean had good reasons to think Scib was "held back" then it kinda falls apart.
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This is a compilation of things Aqua has said about Corazon.
+ Show Spoiler +On November 20 2013 13:20 Aquanim wrote:
@Corazon
I'd like you to elaborate more on why you think sciberbia is scum. I don't entirely understand your argument at present. On November 20 2013 13:45 Aquanim wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2013 13:36 Rean wrote:
Aquanim, you're constantly asking but never saying much about what you think. Gimme one town and one scum and reasons why please. I reckon Thrawn's town because I liked the vote on Corazon. That is the kind of action which will get us doing truly productive things. (His unvote doesn't change that.) On November 20 2013 13:45 Aquanim wrote:
I don't much like Corazon's case on sciberbia but I can think of reasons why Corazon would make that argument as town, regardless of how good it is. I'm still null on Corazon but I'm very interested in what he chooses to do next. On November 20 2013 16:42 Aquanim wrote: I don't like how easily you swallowed Corazon's case on sciberbia, given that I felt it was sketchy at best.
.......
I'd give some consideration to shooting Corazon but even if I was convinced he was scum I think I'd learn much more from lynching him than by simply shooting him.
On November 20 2013 16:48 Aquanim wrote:
I'd cheerfully vote Corazon as well, his failure to actually vote for sciberbia despite his constant accusations is pretty damning. On November 20 2013 17:21 Aquanim wrote:
I always thought Corazon's case on sciberbia was bad. That's not inconsistent with my opinion that Corazon could be town having made that case. There were two possibilities:
- Corazon was town and honestly mistaken
- Corazon was making a case to generate discussion and wasn't particularly concerned with its quality.
On November 20 2013 17:21 Aquanim wrote:
I'm about as confident that Rean is scum as Corazon, perhaps a little less, which is compensated by the advantages of opening up a second wagon.
On November 20 2013 17:25 Aquanim wrote:\
Okay, let me rephrase that. I don't see any town-motivated purpose to Corazon's posting so far. If he thinks Sciberbia is scum, why isn't he voting for him? If he isn't confident Sciberbia is scum, why is he pushing the Sciberbia-scum argument so vehemently?
I think Corazon's case is bad but obviously he doesn't. Corazon's vote doesn't have to be consistent with my opinion of his case, it has to be consistent with his opinion - and it's not.
It is a very convoluted thought process. It doesn't make sense and his position seems to very depending on what he needs to say in order to sufficiently answer a question as to avoid suspicion. He doesn't like C's case, he can see how a town C would make the case, he doesn't see anything town-motivated about Corazon's play, here are two possibilities of how a town Corazon could have made the case, and he's more confident that Corazon is scum than he is that Rean is scum. To add to all that, one of his main criticisms of Corazon is that Corazon isn't voting for his scumread. Neither is Aquanim by his own admission that he isn't as confident about Rean as he is about Corazon.
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EBWOP "seems to very" should obviously be "seems to vary"
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Thrawn
I don't think aquanim drum can be beat anymore till the remaining players chime in.
Same can be said for Corazon.
I got nothing more to say myself 
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On November 20 2013 17:51 thrawn2112 wrote:This is a compilation of things Aqua has said about Corazon. + Show Spoiler +On November 20 2013 13:20 Aquanim wrote:
@Corazon
I'd like you to elaborate more on why you think sciberbia is scum. I don't entirely understand your argument at present. On November 20 2013 13:45 Aquanim wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2013 13:36 Rean wrote:
Aquanim, you're constantly asking but never saying much about what you think. Gimme one town and one scum and reasons why please. I reckon Thrawn's town because I liked the vote on Corazon. That is the kind of action which will get us doing truly productive things. (His unvote doesn't change that.) On November 20 2013 13:45 Aquanim wrote:
I don't much like Corazon's case on sciberbia but I can think of reasons why Corazon would make that argument as town, regardless of how good it is. I'm still null on Corazon but I'm very interested in what he chooses to do next. On November 20 2013 16:42 Aquanim wrote: I don't like how easily you swallowed Corazon's case on sciberbia, given that I felt it was sketchy at best.
.......
I'd give some consideration to shooting Corazon but even if I was convinced he was scum I think I'd learn much more from lynching him than by simply shooting him.
On November 20 2013 16:48 Aquanim wrote:
I'd cheerfully vote Corazon as well, his failure to actually vote for sciberbia despite his constant accusations is pretty damning. On November 20 2013 17:21 Aquanim wrote:
I always thought Corazon's case on sciberbia was bad. That's not inconsistent with my opinion that Corazon could be town having made that case. There were two possibilities:
- Corazon was town and honestly mistaken
- Corazon was making a case to generate discussion and wasn't particularly concerned with its quality.
On November 20 2013 17:21 Aquanim wrote:
I'm about as confident that Rean is scum as Corazon, perhaps a little less, which is compensated by the advantages of opening up a second wagon.
On November 20 2013 17:25 Aquanim wrote:\
Okay, let me rephrase that. I don't see any town-motivated purpose to Corazon's posting so far. If he thinks Sciberbia is scum, why isn't he voting for him? If he isn't confident Sciberbia is scum, why is he pushing the Sciberbia-scum argument so vehemently?
I think Corazon's case is bad but obviously he doesn't. Corazon's vote doesn't have to be consistent with my opinion of his case, it has to be consistent with his opinion - and it's not. It is a very convoluted thought process. It doesn't make sense and his position seems to very depending on what he needs to say in order to sufficiently answer a question as to avoid suspicion. He doesn't like C's case, he can see how a town C would make the case, he doesn't see anything town-motivated about Corazon's play, here are two possibilities of how a town Corazon could have made the case, and he's more confident that Corazon is scum than he is that Rean is scum. To add to all that, one of his main criticisms of Corazon is that Corazon isn't voting for his scumread. Neither is Aquanim by his own admission that he isn't as confident about Rean as he is about Corazon.
My thought process is consistent. The case which Corazon made which I believe I was referring to at that time is:
On November 20 2013 13:24 cDgCorazon wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2013 13:20 Aquanim wrote:
@Corazon
I'd like you to elaborate more on why you think sciberbia is scum. I don't entirely understand your argument at present. He's trying to get us to tunnel each other early so he can just sit around and piggyback on town lynches and point the finger at others. This is demonstrated when he essentially copies my post asking thrawn if he was a mason (deliberately, his post was at least 2-3 minutes after mine) and then decides that he can take my words and twist them when I pressure him about it. This is what troubles me about sciberia right now.
is pretty bad; Sciberbia's "twisting words" was easily explainable as Sciberbia simply not having entirely followed Corazon's post asking thrawn if he was a mason - Corazon's wording was quite convoluted.
So. The case was bad, in that it completely failed to persuade me that sciberbia was scum. (I'm aware corazon has said other things about sciberbia; I didn't find them persuasive either).
However, the fact that the case was bad and didn't persuade me IS NOT scum-indicative for Corazon in as of itself, for the reasons I stated earlier (namely, that Corazon could be mistaken or be deliberately pushing a bad case.)
The fact that Corazon, despite apparently believing his case, is not committing to it by voting for sciberbia? THAT is scum-indicative.
+ Show Spoiler +Furthermore, earlier on when he was still developing and explaining his case against sciberbia, not voting at that point was not particularly scummy. However, when he'd concluded his argument and left without placing a vote even then? That was the point at which it became particularly scum-indicative. Which is why I'd made no mention of his failure to vote before that point, since I wanted to see if he would vote if left to himself.
Some things about Corazon's play, in as of themselves, do not point towards him being scum. Some things do. I don't see a contradiction there.
The difference between Corazon's vote and mine is that his vote is doing nothing at all, while mine is pressuring somebody who I also think is likely scum. There are other votes on Corazon pressuring him, and I consider that at this time my vote is better used to pressure Rean.
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Aquanim
You did newbies with Corazon
Regarding
Him being so butthurt someone copied him
Null, town or scum tell
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Thrawn
I don't think aquanim drum can be beat anymore till the remaining players chime in.
Same can be said for Corazon.
I got nothing more to say myself
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Weird phone double post.
Aqua
Explain to me in dumb terms why Cora not voting is alignment indicative.
I have seen take that stance so many times by town I don't get where you are coming from
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On November 20 2013 18:04 Aquanim wrote:However, the fact that the case was bad and didn't persuade me IS NOT scum-indicative for Corazon in as of itself, for the reasons I stated earlier (namely, that Corazon could be mistaken or be deliberately pushing a bad case.) The fact that Corazon, despite apparently believing his case, is not committing to it by voting for sciberbia? THAT is scum-indicative. + Show Spoiler +Furthermore, earlier on when he was still developing and explaining his case against sciberbia, not voting at that point was not particularly scummy. However, when he'd concluded his argument and left without placing a vote even then? That was the point at which it became particularly scum-indicative. Which is why I'd made no mention of his failure to vote before that point, since I wanted to see if he would vote if left to himself.
You say Cor's case being bad is not scum-indicative.. even though you already used the phrase "sketchy at best" to describe it. Anyways, according to you, at least in this post, you are not holding his case against him.
What you are holding against him is the fact that he's not voting for scib? That's the only reason? It must be, since you aren't going to hold his case against him. Why does that even make him scum in the first place? You say your vote on Rean is fine because it's a pressure vote, but then you're admitting that people don't always have to vote for their top scumreads. And this is why he's your top scumread? Because he hasn't typed in vote:xxxxx during the first few hours of the game? Bah! Bah, I say unto thee.
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@Sciberbia: My read on Corazon is not conclusive aka null. Slightly on the town side of null.
+ Show Spoiler +On November 20 2013 12:37 cDgCorazon wrote:
I took a shower. Sorry for not wanting to smell bad.
Moc, I'm quite concerned that you have already used up >25% of your "self-allotted posts". If you're going to start spamming, it's going to be a problem.
Now to my goals/early game statements:
1. I'm not gonna make any meta crap posts. TBH I don't remember anyone's meta and it's ridiculously stupid logic. I'm not going to stand for it and I don't think you guys should either.
2. I'm voting for the scummiest person. My last game was Titanic and it came down to 3-4 days of "X is scum, Y/Z/Q is scum as well". That led the town way off of the path and allowed my scum team the easiest scum win in a very long time. I don't care if they're not on the two lynch trains that are going to form. It's not instant majority so as long as I feel like I'm voting for the scummiest person in my opinion, I'm going to be happy with my vote.
3. I'm going to do my best to not be just an onlooker. I'm gonna try and facilitate discussion and ask a lot of questions instead of just answering questions and throw my ideas out there and just create more chaos.
On that note, sciberia needs to stop analyzing the first page so hard and just discuss. We're not going to find scum on the first page. You guys just need to talk instead of being at each other's throats 30 minutes into the game.
Don't like this post. Doesn't say anything with a substance.
+ Show Spoiler +On November 20 2013 13:24 cDgCorazon wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2013 13:20 Aquanim wrote:
@Corazon
I'd like you to elaborate more on why you think sciberbia is scum. I don't entirely understand your argument at present. He's trying to get us to tunnel each other early so he can just sit around and piggyback on town lynches and point the finger at others. This is demonstrated when he essentially copies my post asking thrawn if he was a mason (deliberately, his post was at least 2-3 minutes after mine) and then decides that he can take my words and twist them when I pressure him about it. This is what troubles me about sciberia right now.
Don't understand what he is trying to say with this. If "us" refers to Scib and Cora, how does he come to the conclusion that Scib can "sit around and piggyback on town lynches and point the finger at others" if Scib is tunneling Cora?
On one hand Cora could be a townie caught in a emotional tunnel. This falls in line with his tone when directly responding to Scib. On the other hand he could be scum. Reserving judgement until he returns and properly answears Sciberbias case and this post.
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On November 20 2013 18:09 Mocsta wrote:
Aquanim
You did newbies with Corazon
Regarding
Him being so butthurt someone copied him
Null, town or scum tell
The only newbie I played with him he was rookie scum + Show Spoiler +yeah I know he fooled me for a while, but orangeremi was so damn scummy
To answer your question:
Null, maybe very very very slightly leaning town. My impression is that he gets stroppy more easily as a townie than as scum, but he could easily make an adjustment to his scumplay to change that. Also, if there was a failure to communicate effectively between him and scib I can see that irritating Corazon regardless of his alignment.
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jampidampi, have you noticed the elephant in the room?
It's over there >>>>>
What do you make of it?
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On November 20 2013 18:18 thrawn2112 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2013 18:04 Aquanim wrote:However, the fact that the case was bad and didn't persuade me IS NOT scum-indicative for Corazon in as of itself, for the reasons I stated earlier (namely, that Corazon could be mistaken or be deliberately pushing a bad case.) The fact that Corazon, despite apparently believing his case, is not committing to it by voting for sciberbia? THAT is scum-indicative. + Show Spoiler +Furthermore, earlier on when he was still developing and explaining his case against sciberbia, not voting at that point was not particularly scummy. However, when he'd concluded his argument and left without placing a vote even then? That was the point at which it became particularly scum-indicative. Which is why I'd made no mention of his failure to vote before that point, since I wanted to see if he would vote if left to himself. You say Cor's case being bad is not scum-indicative.. even though you already used the phrase "sketchy at best" to describe it. Anyways, according to you, at least in this post, you are not holding his case against him. What you are holding against him is the fact that he's not voting for scib? That's the only reason? It must be, since you aren't going to hold his case against him. Why does that even make him scum in the first place? You say your vote on Rean is fine because it's a pressure vote, but then you're admitting that people don't always have to vote for their top scumreads. And this is why he's your top scumread? Because he hasn't typed in vote:xxxxx during the first few hours of the game? Bah! Bah, I say unto thee.
On November 20 2013 15:42 cDgCorazon wrote:
...
@sciberia
Put your vote where your mouth is.
Corazon's quite aware of the importance of "putting your vote where your mouth is". His failure to do so belies an inconsistent mindset typical of scum.
Corazon's failure to vote is the most obvious expression of an overall pattern in his play - being that while he has been attacking sciberbia I don't think he's been doing it with any purpose in mind. If he was seriously trying to get sciberbia lynched (or even pretending to for the purposes of motivating the thread) he'd be voting for him. If he isn't in any sense trying to push a sciberbia lynch... then what the hell is he doing? The only explanation I can come up with is that he's scum making noise for the purposes of looking active, and maybe pushing suspicion onto a town player.
If Corazon comes back from sleepy-times and starts playing dynamically, pushing lynches and seeking information, my read on him could well change. It's not beyond belief that his play so far is that of a townie who does not in fact have a plan other than to randomly talk about a scumread. I just don't think it's likely.
And regarding this:
You say Cor's case being bad is not scum-indicative.. even though you already used the phrase "sketchy at best" to describe it. Anyways, according to you, at least in this post, you are not holding his case against him.
If Corazon's case had been good he'd likely be a townread for me, despite his failure to vote. The fact that the case is bad is therefore not irrelevant, but it's not enough for a scumread just based on that.
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Well, it looks like Jampidampi has run off without adressing the elephant. I'm not sure whether to be insulted.
He'd better offer some more constructive opinions when he gets back, though.
On November 20 2013 18:22 jampidampi wrote:@Sciberbia: My read on Corazon is not conclusive aka null. Slightly on the town side of null. + Show Spoiler +On November 20 2013 12:37 cDgCorazon wrote:
I took a shower. Sorry for not wanting to smell bad.
Moc, I'm quite concerned that you have already used up >25% of your "self-allotted posts". If you're going to start spamming, it's going to be a problem.
Now to my goals/early game statements:
1. I'm not gonna make any meta crap posts. TBH I don't remember anyone's meta and it's ridiculously stupid logic. I'm not going to stand for it and I don't think you guys should either.
2. I'm voting for the scummiest person. My last game was Titanic and it came down to 3-4 days of "X is scum, Y/Z/Q is scum as well". That led the town way off of the path and allowed my scum team the easiest scum win in a very long time. I don't care if they're not on the two lynch trains that are going to form. It's not instant majority so as long as I feel like I'm voting for the scummiest person in my opinion, I'm going to be happy with my vote.
3. I'm going to do my best to not be just an onlooker. I'm gonna try and facilitate discussion and ask a lot of questions instead of just answering questions and throw my ideas out there and just create more chaos.
On that note, sciberia needs to stop analyzing the first page so hard and just discuss. We're not going to find scum on the first page. You guys just need to talk instead of being at each other's throats 30 minutes into the game.
Don't like this post. Doesn't say anything with a substance. + Show Spoiler +On November 20 2013 13:24 cDgCorazon wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2013 13:20 Aquanim wrote:
@Corazon
I'd like you to elaborate more on why you think sciberbia is scum. I don't entirely understand your argument at present. He's trying to get us to tunnel each other early so he can just sit around and piggyback on town lynches and point the finger at others. This is demonstrated when he essentially copies my post asking thrawn if he was a mason (deliberately, his post was at least 2-3 minutes after mine) and then decides that he can take my words and twist them when I pressure him about it. This is what troubles me about sciberia right now. Don't understand what he is trying to say with this. If "us" refers to Scib and Cora, how does he come to the conclusion that Scib can "sit around and piggyback on town lynches and point the finger at others" if Scib is tunneling Cora? On one hand Cora could be a townie caught in a emotional tunnel. This falls in line with his tone when directly responding to Scib. On the other hand he could be scum. Reserving judgement until he returns and properly answears Sciberbias case and this post.
@Jampidampi: This reads to me like two quotes demonstrating why you don't like Corazon's play so far. How does that leave you on the town side of null? I think you need to flesh this out some more.
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Basic Vote Count
cDgCorazon (1): thrawn2112, Mocsta, sciberbia
Aquanim (2): thrawn2112. Mocsta
Rean (1): Aquanim
No one is currently set to be lynched. If you find an error in the vote count, please let us know.
Day 1 ends in at 03:00 GMT (+00:00)
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On November 20 2013 12:50 Rean wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2013 12:37 cDgCorazon wrote:
I took a shower. Sorry for not wanting to smell bad.
Moc, I'm quite concerned that you have already used up >25% of your "self-allotted posts". If you're going to start spamming, it's going to be a problem.
Now to my goals/early game statements:
1. I'm not gonna make any meta crap posts. TBH I don't remember anyone's meta and it's ridiculously stupid logic. I'm not going to stand for it and I don't think you guys should either.
2. I'm voting for the scummiest person. My last game was Titanic and it came down to 3-4 days of "X is scum, Y/Z/Q is scum as well". That led the town way off of the path and allowed my scum team the easiest scum win in a very long time. I don't care if they're not on the two lynch trains that are going to form. It's not instant majority so as long as I feel like I'm voting for the scummiest person in my opinion, I'm going to be happy with my vote.
3. I'm going to do my best to not be just an onlooker. I'm gonna try and facilitate discussion and ask a lot of questions instead of just answering questions and throw my ideas out there and just create more chaos.
On that note, sciberia needs to stop analyzing the first page so hard and just discuss. We're not going to find scum on the first page. You guys just need to talk instead of being at each other's throats 30 minutes into the game.
Couldn't agree more. Also, don't shit up the thread with useless spam like the LXIII game please. I tried keeping up but the amount of shit posts just trolling/making useless jokes/comments is unbearable and makes it impossible to tell low-laying scum from trolling townies. If anyone goes around posting stupid oneliners without saying anything meaningful they have my vote >.>
Reans first post into the thread and it just fakes activity. He doesnt say what he agrees with and there are multiple things to agree with, does he agree with all or only some he, never actually says what points he agrees with. This is a very scummy first post.
Also if mocsta didnt retract his post limit on himself I was going to call him scum, but he did and I am ok with it for now. I do want to point out he only takes it after cora points out his spam. But unlike cora I thought it was scummy, because it was a easy way to avoid conversation. The was one more post from mocsta I didnt like will find it in moment it was post 4or 5 where he gives 3 scum reads with no reason and then says half the thread hasnt posted so his reads can change.
Coras case on Sciberia is terribad and scummy.
Anyway rean is really scumm though.
Sorry Im at the mall but when I am home I will catchup on both of my games and be up late playing. Ill be checking in periodicly while Im at the mall though.
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EPT
