One of the reasons why the game never made sense to me was that it was difficult to believe mafia had one person posting actively and two people essentially not doing anything, but it's easy to lurker lynch when the game was essentially over on n1. Even easier when you seemingly have red checks supporting the lynches. Yet, it didn't feel like mafia considered the game lost, so the checks probably weren't reliable.

I couldn't figure out what mafia framer was doing on n1 since it didn't target Ravenclaw, seemingly didn't target Huffle and framing Gryffin or Slytherin also seemed bad options. Gryffin had Pandain who people were ignoring and Slytherin had at least two mafia + miller. Grack concluding very early that everyone in Huffle was weird, but not thinking or reading and just playing on autopilot is easier. If the mafia framer can also make someone look innocent to checks, it makes most sense to target a house with 2 mafia or more mafia in it. After 3 flips the framer will obviously target houses that haven't been checked and guilty framing.

Skanjab was absolutely correct in that it didn't make sense for one house to have 3 mafia + self-aware miller, but again when you can just lynch through all the possibilities it's easier to just not care.

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

November 02 2013 16:05 GMT

#5664

It's fine, we can lynch all the mafia, even non-mafia mafia.

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

November 02 2013 16:08 GMT

#5666

That's the wrong move as it guarantees a mafia loss.

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

November 02 2013 16:13 GMT

#5668

You can make fun of me regardless of who it is.

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

November 02 2013 19:12 GMT

#5672

I gave Grackaroni bad luck, which causes all random night actions to be targeted at him. As Mocsta randomized his night actions, he will kill himself tonight if he chose to NK.

If there is no NK, mafia chose not to NK.

If there is a NK, but and Grackaroni is not dead, someone else is mafia.

That's how it should work anyway.

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

November 02 2013 19:24 GMT

#5674

We are all bad at mafia

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

November 02 2013 19:27 GMT

#5679

Don't think there has ever been a blue role that is also a self-unaware miller on TL

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

November 02 2013 19:29 GMT

#5684

Deathly hallows? What was that about?

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

November 02 2013 19:30 GMT

#5688

So town could essentially randomly lose without being able to do anything about it? That was a really bad idea. Winning conditions have to be completely transparent.

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

November 02 2013 19:37 GMT

#5697

I can't believe you chose to frame BH innocent, that was completely worthless.

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

November 02 2013 19:41 GMT

#5703

Even if you "win", it's a completely null win since town was not informed about the possibility of randomly losing. The fact you had a hidden arbitrary win condition even allowed you to bus your team, which impacted our reads. I don't usually criticize design, but that was a very, very bad idea.

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

November 02 2013 19:49 GMT

#5709

Asking whether VT is just a VT is not confirming someone's alignment. Whether you answer a question or not should not depend on what is going on in the game. You are actively influencing the game by refusing to answer a question you would otherwise answer. Of course, if you before the game decided that the nature of VT should remain a mystery, that's one thing, although that's very hard to justify.

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

November 02 2013 19:51 GMT

#5711

On November 03 2013 04:46 cDgCorazon wrote:
Also syllo, calling the hosts liars is a pretty dick thing to do.

I did not call them liars. The usage of the word was strategic - I wanted to emphasize both to players and hosts that the information provided to us had to be accurate. It was accurate, but I was getting very confused by the answers I was getting as my request for confirmation about the accuracy of said information was not answered.

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

November 02 2013 19:58 GMT

#5717

Knowing how you can win or lose the game is more important than knowing your role, how many mafia are in the game or how anything else works. Revealing some hidden win condition at a specific point of game may be fine, but it should be made known to every player in the game because, as this game makes apparent, if you happen to reveal it to players who choose not to share that information with the rest of town, everyone else is playing blind. That is not fun, and that is what every design decision should revolve around. Will this make my setup more or less fun?

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

November 02 2013 20:01 GMT

#5724

One of the reasons for ignoring Onegu was that he was largely supportive of mafia lynches and HF bussing Onegu in that situation made little sense as we thought the only way for mafia to win was to gain control of the lynch.

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

November 02 2013 20:16 GMT

#5733

On November 03 2013 05:08 Ange777 wrote:

Show nested quote +

I see your point but I stand with my decision to only reveal the information to a few players. It's a closed game, there was a notification about it and people chose to ignore it completely. Of course people could have been scared about outing the fact that they possess the item, but even after several scum had died and only town reads were left in their respective house QTs no one discussed it.

The public notification didn't tell us anything though. Perhaps if it had been clearly worded to indicate that deathly hallows have been given to specific players, we could have had some discussion about them.

I don't understand why you think choosing to reveal the hidden losing condition to only some players is better than revealing it to everyone else. I don't think a single player in the game finds the possibility of randomly losing fun. Even the whole win condition seems dubious to me as town could have been playing almost a perfect game and then randomly lose because mafia got lucky with the NKs. It is very difficult to balance and I'm struggling to see how such a win condition ever makes the game more fun. Perhaps if the whole design was built around it, but then you can't RNG the items.

Otherwise I think this setup was fun and there were a lot of nice ideas. For instance I liked lumos+framer interaction and the house QTs worked very well. You should definitely host more themed games. Thanks for hosting.