EPTWorld Heavyweight Championship mafia
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Risen
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Edit: But uhh... totally not hype. No hype at all. | ||
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I'm town. | ||
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On October 02 2013 09:15 Blazinghand wrote: So, Risen, I'd like to hear your reasoning for not voting Oats. Are you protecting your scumbuddy? eh? No I'm not, but I'm not going to randomly lynch someone, either. | ||
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On October 02 2013 10:20 Holyflare wrote: ##vote Oatsmaster Seems reasonable for now. In the meantime I do not know anyone's playstyles so I do not have an adequate basis for a policy lynch as of yet but that will most probably change after I've dug around into peoples playstyles. For now, does anyone know other people's 'metas'? Do some people play differently when they are scum compared to their town play? I know it may not be glaringly obvious differences but I'd like to know who the weaker people are in this game (guess you can add me to that). Why would you say that? There's so many other reasons you could get behind an rng lynch "rng'd" by someone else (quotes because sure that long explanation sounds random, but couldn't he just find something and guide it to Oats?). Reasonable is not the first thing that springs to mind. And no, "Ho ho! I was merely FAKING my vote old chap!" isn't a good excuse for finding it reasonable. I find it reasonable to vote for you, though. I don't trust people who proclaim themselves as weak, especially in a game titled "World Heavyweight Championship mafia". You saw the name, you knew what you were going for. You didn't feel weak when you signed up, so why do you feel weak now? ##vote: Holyflare | ||
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On October 02 2013 12:13 Blazinghand wrote: Actually, I also find it highly interesting that you are drawing suspicion onto my methods and motives for the random vote, but not actually calling a random vote bad in and of itself. Are you claiming that the only problem with RNG is that I may have manipulated the outcome (not possible) or that the RNG I used wasn't random (it was)? And that if I could convince you that it was truly random and I didn't manipulate the outcome, you'd be fine with it? Maybe, maybe not, but you also state you're not willing to "randomly lynch someone" earlier on. So which is it? Is my vote random, or isn't it random? Are you casting doubt on it because you really doubt it? Do you have a problem with a true RNG in general (as you imply in your second post) or do you think I failed to appropriately RNG (as you imply later)? You can't both say "I won't vote Oats because I don't randomly vote" AND "the oats vote isn't random"... I don't have a problem with a random vote in and of itself, I have a problem with someone accepting a random vote made by someone else as reasonable and what RNG respresents. If I could be convinced that someone could truly make an RNG applicable that scum could not tamper with I still probably wouldn't be ok with it, because it's day 1. We should be focus on generating discussion. A random vote can be useful as discussion starter, look at what has happened already with HF, but to just vote for someone based upon RNG defeats the purpose of playing mafia. | ||
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On October 02 2013 12:48 Holyflare wrote: Risen, in a game of 9 players in which I know nothing about any of the players there is no better system to accept straight off than RNG. Obviously there are ways to get my attention drawn to other people, however, in a 'world heavyweight championship' as you so lovingly pointed out, is it really going to be that obvious when people screw up? I think not. Like I said in my original post, however, I am open to peoples opinions on other players. You could read people's posts and judge them by that? Seems to be a pretty common way to vote. | ||
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On October 02 2013 13:23 Blazinghand wrote: I personally do not find either of these reasons compelling. A decision to hop or not hop on the RNG lynch wagon is dependent on personal ideas about how useful RNG is, and whether or not it paints someone as scummy depends on their reasoning and history, not the simple fact that they did or did not hop on. Calling holyflare scum, likewise, is not in and of itself a good strat. I too don't like holyflare's play, but you think I am scum, and it is almost certainly because of my interactions with holyflare. Instead of calling him a newb card player and voting him, as risen did, without serious explanation and an attempt to help him, I actually interacted with him seriously. playing the newb card is also something newbies do. the optimal response is mine, not risen's. Mine determines holyflare's alignment. Risen did not attempt to suss out what was up with holyflare. he laid some smackdown, but hasn't seriously followed it up. Where is he in convincing me to vote holyflare as I interact with holyflare? After all, he thinks holyflare is scum, no? I find risen scummy for that reason. Calling someone out for the only thing worth calling someone out on at the time makes me scummy? You also disregard the fact that I can be doing other things while doing things in mafia. Why is that? | ||
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On October 02 2013 13:31 Blazinghand wrote: Look, Oats, you have to admit, it IS pretty weird that Risen hasn't been trying to convince me, right? Like, even drawing some weird unflipped associative tell shit you can't just go and say "I'm not going to try to convince BH, who's literally in the thread right now and rather influential as a town player, that HF is scum". You also have to admit, do you not, that given that holyflare IS LITERALLY A NEWBIE, it's possible he doesn't get what playing the newb card means? It's possible that yes, the reaction should be suspicion, but also an attempt to draw him into conversation? That not doing that is sub-optimal, and therefore scummy? Or I'm playing dota | ||
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Clarity and Dirk... + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://blogwillhunting.com/gif/goodgifhunting2.gif) Filter diving now. Also ##unvote | ||
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On October 02 2013 15:10 Clarity_nl wrote: Blazinghand is a cool guy (meaning no lynchy lynchy todaysies despite no real read on him (sowwy)) Holyflare town, sloosh town (despite opening post making me tilt my head) Risen is bleh, have to wait for him to have a scumread and have him explain it to see what colour his blood is. Oats..... his OMGUS on BH looks pretty bad. But then again oats tends to look pretty bad early as town. Did he, as scum, crack under the pressure of a single vote by BH? I dunno, sounds doubtful. I liked his pressure on holyflare, because an opening post proclaiming newb should always be pressured. But sloosh came out looking town and oats hasn't retracted his vote yet, so let's see what he thinks when he's back. I'm not convinced, anyway. Oats could you explain this? First post in the thread. Do you know something I don't? At the point of this post what has sloosh done in thread to give you this feeling? I can understand having a town read on HF (straight calling him town is a big stretch at this point but this is mafia where we don't use logic and weeeeeeeeeeeee). I, however, am bleh. Why am I bleh? Bleh because you have some meta read on me that requires my reads? You already had a read in thread. It wasn't a strong read, just a read that was worthy of a vote. Why isn't that enough for your meta? I can tell you now I think it's almost impossible to have a scum read stronger than 60/40 day 1. It's not logical to have a scum read day 1 when there is so little to go off of. Clarity would know this, clarity should know this, and he's my top scum read for now because... What is this shit about oats? You liked his pressure where he didn't like the newb claim from HF? I did the same exact thing as him before him. For him it's bad and town, for me it's hold on lets wait. This looks like a subtle push on me you're hoping will gain traction. You haven't committed to anything and can fit things to whatever you want at a later point in time. On October 02 2013 15:14 Clarity_nl wrote: I know you like your game theory, and technically we have a 2/7 chance (since doc will claim), but the information we get off of people agreeing to a random lynch isn't that telling I don't think. Rather just spark discussion as usual and see what happens. Despite,(according to database numbers) a random lynch being slightly more effective, if it hits town it probably gets less information than if there are a couple of lynch candidates and they are discussed and votes are moved around. He's rewording the 2/7 thing and acting like he's contributing, he's saying that a random lynch is slightly more effective and at the same time saying he'd rather not use something he views as more effective. Why the contradiction within your own post? On October 02 2013 15:23 Clarity_nl wrote: That's fine and I think we have some information that came out of it rather than lurker lynch policy talk which is a dead horse. But do you plan on hanging on to your rng lynch today unless someone becomes obvious scum? Or do you feel that oats is no longer a random lynch now and you think he's most likely to flip scum at this time, and if that changes you'll change your vote? A lot of words to say "Are you sticking to your RNG vote or will you vote the person you think is most scummy?" Is that even a real question? On October 02 2013 15:46 Clarity_nl wrote: I'm not trying to imply that I put him as a townread as some kind of trap, I didn't, just wasn't thinking properly. But did you not find it odd that I gave him a townread earlier? Where did this even come up? Why do you feel the need to defend yourself against something no one has brought up.. Why are you looking at your filter and trying to find things that are potentially scummy then preemptively defending yourself? Why am I the only one who sees this? On October 02 2013 19:05 Clarity_nl wrote: Yeah I'll go with that, actually ##Vote Dirkzor Just going with the flow, eh? Because it looks to me like in your post right before this you were doubtful. On October 02 2013 18:58 Clarity_nl wrote: Did you really feel the need to drop a vote before reading marv, were you afraid someone might vote him before you? I don't really understand. So you read what he wrote, didn't feel anything from it, marv came in with a vote, you were suspicious of it, and then when he gave an extremely simple explanation of his vote you were all about it? Ok. Why didn't you stick to your previous feeling? On October 02 2013 18:59 marvellosity wrote: I explained why I voted. Your question is silly. "yes, I was terrified someone might vote him before me, that's absolutely why I voted him like that" Actually marv, yeah that's a very good reason to vote like that. I know you're being sarcastic in the quote, but wouldn't scum marv want to lead a lynch instead of adopting one later? Why does Clarity not see this, but instead immediately drops his pressure on marv? There's no way he has any sort of town read on marv at this point. Does clarity know something I don't? On October 02 2013 19:22 Clarity_nl wrote: I could quote marvs posts if you'd like but they're right there. #Sheeple You spend 4 paragraphs on a null read yet your scumread is hardly explained. Saying HF has done nothing means you haven't read the thread carefully enough. Reading him as most likely to be scum is bleh. Why is that? You certainly haven't given anything on HF since the very first post at this point where you simply call him town. Another case of knowing too much. On October 02 2013 21:49 Clarity_nl wrote: How'd you feel about a sloosh lynch if dirk didn't exist in this game? Why? On October 02 2013 21:51 Clarity_nl wrote: You're no fun marv. Is there anyone other than dirk that you have an opinion on so far? Oh, sure. Yeah totally. Nitpick. It wasn't a contradiction from where I'm standing. Where's the contradiction? On October 02 2013 23:04 Clarity_nl wrote: I'm saying your question is based on the false premise that I think you're scum. Huh? Maybe it's all the SUPER SUBTLE soft pushing you've been doing on him. + Show Spoiler + On October 02 2013 15:23 Clarity_nl wrote: That's fine and I think we have some information that came out of it rather than lurker lynch policy talk which is a dead horse. But do you plan on hanging on to your rng lynch today unless someone becomes obvious scum? Or do you feel that oats is no longer a random lynch now and you think he's most likely to flip scum at this time, and if that changes you'll change your vote? On October 02 2013 18:42 Clarity_nl wrote: Just the usual really. I didn't mean anything in particular but it >felt< that the starting hours were more productive than usual due to BH's rng lynch suggestion. I can't really quantify it. What do you think of oats? On October 02 2013 19:13 Clarity_nl wrote: Would still like your thoughts on oats, marv. On October 02 2013 22:44 Clarity_nl wrote: Man... Could you explain your townread on oats better? You seemed to go "despite this list of things I just mentioned I still think he's town because reasons", namely that he cares... Could you point out some examples? What do YOU think of oats? You haven't said anything about him since you came into the thread saying his OMGUS was bad, but he's usually bad. The very next thing you actually say in relation to him is contradiction? You totally weren't laying a trap earlier, but now it looks like you are. On October 03 2013 00:32 Clarity_nl wrote: You tend to make sense. Though honestly if you were wrong I'd sheep you as scum so, meh. This is why meta is stupid. On October 03 2013 02:37 Clarity_nl wrote: Please drop off your reads at the read centre near you, or call if you have thoughts that you need help with. When you contact us to arrange discussion of your reads you will be informed of the pick-up schedule for your area. Click here to locate the nearest read centre to you. BEEP Filler. On October 03 2013 02:46 Clarity_nl wrote: Read the thread and find out, do not post until you're caught up. Thanks. Totally ok for you to ask a million questions, no one else can, though. | ||
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On October 03 2013 23:48 Dirkzor wrote: Actually the more I think about it the scummier your post gets. You get called out for inactivity and not producing. Of course you claim this is not alignment indicative but then you start producing like a maniac. First of after spending some 24 hours in the RNG BH thing your conclusion is rather weak. You then proceed to jump on a minor (imo) thing about HF. Of those 3 bullets I only really think number 1 is worth noting. The bolded part is something you should never call someone out on unless you're using it as part of a case and you're voting that person. Discouraging people from posting is not something town players should do. | ||
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On October 04 2013 01:43 Blazinghand wrote: also where the hell has risen been anyways Afk. I'll be leaving the thread for another hour and a half right now. | ||
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On October 04 2013 03:31 Holyflare wrote: Why not contribute instead of pointing that out? Because as I said earlier I was afk. That was from my phone. | ||
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On October 04 2013 03:47 Holyflare wrote: So the first thing you do on your phone is to point that out rather than read and add/defend later? Rather you just didn't post at all, would look less incriminating I disagree. I see something off I'm going to point it out. That bolded portion is so scummy it hurts. | ||
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On October 04 2013 02:26 Blazinghand wrote: Phone postings. Consider my vote on rain. Are you going to follow this up anytime soon? I'm writing up my case now. I read through the game when I woke up before leaving, and there's no way town rayne thinks I'm town that hard and defends me like he has been. <---- sums up my case | ||
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On October 04 2013 03:53 Holyflare wrote: Really? You've come under suspicion from pretty much everyone in this thread. To return with a post addressing 0 of these posts is scummy, don't you think? I let my posting speak for me. I don't think defense posts do any good. Someone who's scum or town can come up with a myriad of reasons for their posting. Know what townies do? They hunt scum. | ||
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On October 04 2013 04:07 Holyflare wrote: Your posting is why people find you scummy in the first place? My lack of posting is what people find scummy about me, not my posting. Those are two entirely different things. | ||
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On October 04 2013 04:08 Clarity_nl wrote: Risen, case on me incoming or what? No. Case on rayn. | ||
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On October 04 2013 04:12 Clarity_nl wrote: Care to follow up on me at all or did you drop your read? Not right now, I have to make this case and then I'm leaving again. I've been really busy this week. It was a collection of things I found scummy, now I've found someone who is more scummy. My read on you has gone nowhere. On October 04 2013 04:13 Holyflare wrote: No that is wrong, what people want to know is why was your case on clarity not defended or enforced which is how your manner of posting usually is. Why did you become so timid after people criticised it and also it's not enough to just make a case, I want to know what you think of the other cases so far. What do you think of sloosh and his clairvoyanct nature, what about oats, what about dirkzor? Thats is why it's not enough so don't make it out to be. Not defending my case is still the same as being afk and not posting. You're arguing semantics. I'll get to the other cases when I have time, but people are going to lynch rayn after I make my case. | ||
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On October 02 2013 10:19 raynpelikoneet wrote: Iam protecting marv what? Opening post makes no sense. Literally 0 sense. I have no idea what to make of it. On October 02 2013 10:22 raynpelikoneet wrote: Hey let's lynch Oats, seems reasonable. dundundun. More nonsense. This could go either way. Is he being sarcastic with his dundundun, or does he actually think it's reasonable? He could argue either way, and I hate posts that hedge. On October 02 2013 10:31 raynpelikoneet wrote: Hey dudes. This seems so bad. Bad bad.....bdadadandanndanna... BATMAN" Trolling in a World Heavyweight Championship/useless filler. Makes total sense from a town perspective (it doesn't). It doesn't make too much sense from scum perspective either, HOWEVER, filler does make sense from a scum perspective. On October 03 2013 02:33 raynpelikoneet wrote: Okay i am here. Wassup guys? So I guess this is supposed to be his intro post? Wassup? A lot has happened in the thread at this point, how about saying something about it instead of asking a question to no one in particular. More filler. On October 03 2013 02:36 raynpelikoneet wrote: Why don't you look like usual town Oats? Meta posts are horrible, but it seems to me everyone else is saying this is town Oats. Why is rayn immediately coming into the thread with suspicion on Oats? Is it a hedge against a future oats flip? Is he just trying to take up space? (filler) Why don't you point out why he doesn't look like usual town oats? Oh. Sure. On October 03 2013 02:44 raynpelikoneet wrote: No i am not gonna vote for you. Does anyone have a clue what the hell is BH doing? More filler. It's not even a directed question. It's just a "Hey guys anyone know what BH is doing? I haven't read the thread." But wait... On October 03 2013 02:50 raynpelikoneet wrote: I am caught up, i am not posting if i am not caught up. Hey Blazinghand. Why exactly are you voting for Oats? I have read like 20 different reasoning for your vote and every time it's different. Like at least three time you say "it's not RNG", then "and also RNG", then "not RNG". I have a hard time figuring out why do you exactly think Oats is scum. He is caught up. He has read the thread. He knows as much as everyone else about what BH is doing. So why ask the question in the first place? In this same post we see he finally has something to say. Why didn't he just say that from the get go? On October 03 2013 02:52 raynpelikoneet wrote: I dunno yet. I am not going to vote for marv or clarity, that's for sure. Why not? Any reason? No reason given, no explanation. It's just filler and we're supposed to just take his reads. This is where it first seems to me that rayn knows too much. Does he know they're town? Or is he defending one of his scum team mates. Those are both bad. On October 03 2013 02:57 raynpelikoneet wrote: Like, for example, this is probably the worst post in this game. Sure, but why is it scummy? What about that post makes it scummy? What are you thinking? On October 03 2013 03:02 raynpelikoneet wrote: I dunno, maybe it's just BH making him mad. He's kinda... over-analyzing stuff in non-Oats' manner. I'll look into Dirkzor, gimme a sec. But you don't make posts unless you've read the thread already. So why do you need to look into him? This is just him taking time to think through his post instead of just giving his thoughts on Dirk. That's scummy. On October 03 2013 03:49 raynpelikoneet wrote: So what do people think about Risen's post. I'm kinda sure he is town. Bullshit. I'm the only one who knows I'm town. I HATE META POSTS. Why are you kinda sure? Why are you waiting for other people to ask you why I'm town, or to explain why I'm town? Why don't you just say why I'm town? Why are you holding these things back? Because you're scum. On October 03 2013 04:08 raynpelikoneet wrote: So BH, you don't know if Oats is scummy or not, you want to policy lynch him right? Or is it RNG? Or wtf is it. Why are you still droning on about this? Filler. This isn't pressuring at all. On October 03 2013 05:14 raynpelikoneet wrote: I am trying to understand what's going on with BH and Oats, but it's really hard. Everything else has been said pretty much so no need to repeat it. What's the point here? On October 03 2013 05:18 raynpelikoneet wrote: No there isn't. You use many words and your posts are for some reason hard to understand to me, so i need to read them over and over again. I am going to go through the interaction with you and Oats again to see what i think about it. What do you think it means? It's pretty straightforwards. Filler. Holy shit it's a list post. For real? + Show Spoiler + On October 03 2013 21:00 raynpelikoneet wrote: Okay so. First my response to BH: My activity is not alignment indicative. I know i have not done much, because i have not had time to do stuff. That doesn't make me scum. BH's RNG bullshit (which i am going to go into next) has taken basically all my time in this game. I can't let go of something i don't understand, and everything else has been easily understandable in this game. Also BH saying i have been here is wrong. It's just wrong, because it is not true. I have been here when i have been posting, when i have not been posting i have not been here. Then the RNG bullshit: First of all, how this shit started. In his first posts BH proposes Oats RNG lynch. Guess what. After this it's not a random lynch any more. It's "lynch Oatsmaster who Blazinghand randomized". I can't believe that shit went on and on for pages and i can't believe BH really somehow got a scumread on Oats for it. Oats was being totally reasonable in my opinion, called out bad stuff (HF's post and BH's behaviour). There was nothing wrong with it. Yet Blazinghand kept going on and on with that. So what do we have here: Blazinghand: Proposing random lynch the way he did is bad. Could town!BH do it? Probably yes. Would town!BH go on with it and then call Oats scum for flimsy reasons? I have no fucking idea. I especially didn't like his response to Oats when Oats said "i do this all the time as town and never as scum". I even pointed out the post by BH earlier on in thread. That to me seems like "even if people come and say this is what Oats does as town i still have my reasons to lynch him". Being bad =/= being scum. Also Oats was not being bad, he was being reasonable. Oats: Comes out looking best from that shitfest. HolyFlare: That's not a randomlynch for him. It's not, there is no reason to vote for Oats because it's random. No. Risen: His comments were reasonable and his vote was perfectly fine. As for my reads (from towniest to scummiest): marv: This is the marv i like. He's taken the leader position in town and is doing a good job. Pointing out stuff that's bad and having clear stances on things. I would still love to hear his read on BH (i mean, a read with reasoning), because i have not seen much of content from BH. Risen: I liked his stance on the RNG thingy. I liked his vote on HolyFlare. I dunno why he unvoted HF, could you explain that Risen? I liked some things in his case on Clarity, and the case itself to me tells much more about Risen than it tells about Clarity. It mirrors the mindset Risen had in GoT, almost perfectly. There is a lot of stuff he looks form different angle than anyone else. Oatsmaster: Seems like towny!Oats to me. I found his posting during the RNG shitfest weird, as i pointed out before. But all in all he's having a clear thought process and putting his thoughts out there when pressured (marv -- Oats a while ago). If Oats was scum it would be easy to hide behind his playstyle (where he just calls people scum or town and never explains anything for real), this game he needs to be made explain his thoughts, and so far he has succeeded. Clarity: Clarity looked good early on in the game. I can see where he is coming from with his comment on BH being a cool guy (although i don't agree with it - gamewise :p). Clarity now that i have actually understood the early game could you tell me what was good in the RNG discussion? Yes it did produce content, but imo it did produce content that was based on false premises. After this Clarity asks a lot of questions and does not provide conclusions. I can somehow see what he concludes but still, he's not explaining it. I don't like his stance on BH, i like his case on Dirk. HolyFlare: I don't like his vote still being on Oats. Afaik i understand it's because of RNG, which is not in fact rng for him. Other than that he has made some good observations, then nothing. BlazingHand: This guy is pretty much impossible to read for me. Basically he does whatever he does and to me it feels like all the important stuff he tries to say is hidden in a big pile of words. I don't know where his head is at (besides him voting for me, but that's another thing). I don't know why he finds Risen/HF scummy, and his reasons for Oats being scummy are bad. As for now, he apparently doesn't like anyone besides marv... Sloosh: Scummy. I don't understand his townread on Dirk. Says he will get to Risen & HF when he has time. Never follows that up. Then votes for Clarity with his -- apparenly -- scumread Risen. Dirkzor: Horrible opening post. Horrible follow up. Then he says he wants to lynch me or Sloosh, i don't see any reasons from him. When the thread sentiment turns into "Sloosh looks bad" (Clarity voting for him etc.), THEN he places his vote on Sloosh. Best lynch. ##Vote: Dirkzor My comments were reasonable and perfectly fine? No they weren't. I bitched out of the thread because, as usual, no one wants to listen to me except marv who listens to everybody. Where the hell does this Dirk thing come from? Why does it take you this long to finally want to vote Dirk? You talked about him way earlier. Nothing has changed except Sloosh stuff. The person you find scummy. You find him SO SCUMMY, in fact, that he's a scum read for you, but wtf? He voted sloosh. So he's bussing his teammate d1? You find him scummy for voting sloosh who is also a scum read for you? I can't wrap my head around it, it makes no sense. Back to his defense of me now. This is so scummy. On October 03 2013 21:12 raynpelikoneet wrote: It's weird, but coming from Risen, that's what he does. What do you find scummy in it? Like, is it more likely to come from scum "oh no, i made a bad case, when people do not comment on it i instantly go emo". Do you think Risen would do that as scum? This is what I do. You know how I play. Fair enough, I've played quit a few games of TL mafia both as scum and as town. On October 03 2013 21:18 raynpelikoneet wrote: Yeah i agree that he's not surely town and i would like to see more from him, especially considering what marv said about him being in Noir obs QT and not posting here. I have never seen Risen as scum but his behaviour in this game is imo similar to his towngames i have played with him. I need to look at Aperture where he said (if i remember correcty) that he was trying to help scum so he would win (as 3p). Hedging now. Before you were pretty sure, now I'm not surely town. And in the post directly after saying you know how I play, you say you have never seen any of my scum games. You haven't read anything of me as scum, but you just said you know how I play. That is a huge contradiction. Now you need to look into my recent 3P game (what happened with that?) On October 03 2013 21:32 raynpelikoneet wrote: Afaik Risen has some "best mafia play award", correct? Does anyone know from which game was that? + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/gmeIMih.jpg) Sea of grillz where rayn starts asking a million questions instead of just analyzing posts. There are times when someone should question, and you know what? You can probably throw out as many questions as you want as long as you've done your own work to answer the questions you are asking. Rayn doesn't do that, though. He asks for everyone's opinion on everything, but doesn't give the answers to his own questions. So instead of analysis, we see rayn filling the thread with spammed questions and he grills people. I think this post is especially telling. When I read it I couldn't believe someone actually said this. On October 03 2013 22:03 raynpelikoneet wrote: Because i tend to interact with people who are in thread. I'm impatient to wait for answers for hours, i have a train of thought and i want to disclose it with quick back and forth discussion. That's what i always do. Impatience? This game has 48 hour days. Patience is a required trait. Beyond that, someone who is town will raise their questions when they come to them. They don't wait to see that the person is in the thread and then ask them. And maybe town players occasionally do this thing called scum hunting. Where is yours? A list post is not scum hunting. Grilling people and asking a million questions is not scum hunting. Scum hunting requirtes analysis of people's posts, and Rayn is not doing that. He's posting largely filler, largely defenses of people he shouldn't be dfending, and a list post. On October 03 2013 22:11 raynpelikoneet wrote: shh.. marv. You'll hear the conclusions when i am done. Will he/we? You've come to no conclusions in the past, why should you now? On October 03 2013 22:11 raynpelikoneet wrote: It's also good that if you can't see what i am doing it makes this even better. Because transparency is a bad thing. This is you openly saying, "I'm laying a trap, the trap doesn't work if I tell you guys how I'm laying it." So what's the point of your trap now? On October 03 2013 22:22 raynpelikoneet wrote: Hey Holyflare where did you go? Why do you feel like i am talking about Oats when i am clearly not? Also do you think your case on him was good or not? Nit picking aimlessly. On October 03 2013 22:24 raynpelikoneet wrote: I really don't like Holyflare trying to flush my argument away with made up reasons.. Don't like the response to your nit pick and get called on it? Just say the person is making up their reasons. On October 03 2013 22:54 raynpelikoneet wrote: Can you just directly answer my question Holyflare, instead of flip-flopping around it? This is so slimy. I don't see Holyflare as flip-flopping here. When I woke up and was reading through the thread in one go I caught this. Why are you trying to paint his changing of his mind as flip-flopping? Why is changing your mind a bvad thing? See new evidence? Change your mind. Worried about looking like scum? Don't be. It's in town's best interests for you to be as honest as possible. The only people who concern themselves with changing their mind are scum. On October 03 2013 23:13 raynpelikoneet wrote: What does Holyflare voting for Sloosh have to do with anything? Probably because this is the second person you've voted on that you think is potentially bussing their team mate without voting sloosh. Are you bouncing around everyone BUT sloosh because he's your team mate? On October 04 2013 00:08 raynpelikoneet wrote: Holyflare, incorrect. Why do people try to incorrectly meta me lately? How about you call him on what the actual problem with his post was? Holyflare is new and doesn't know everyone's meta, but he's making a meta read on you. Why is your first concern that he's not seeing your meta correctly? This hyper-self-awareness is scummy as hell. Regardless, I'm so tired of this HF/rayn battle, I hope something new comes up. Rayn does seem pretty convinced about his HF read now, though. On October 04 2013 00:34 raynpelikoneet wrote: ##Unvote: ##Vote: Dirkzor Oh. Just kidding. Reasoning? On October 04 2013 00:36 raynpelikoneet wrote: Yes i can see that. I am voting for Dirkzor because of what i said before. What? So you are going back to your earlier reads and dropping the HF entirely while still managing to completely avoid the person in the lead right now who is sloosh and who you have already found scummy. Is the game really this easy? On October 04 2013 01:53 raynpelikoneet wrote: Okay so, i need to decide my vote now. I prefer Dirkzor. Clarity you are bad or scum. I guess my other options are Risen and Sloosh? If i should switch marv tell me now who to switch on. I trust you the most. I don't wanna lynch Risen, i don't wanna lynch Sloosh either.. because they have not been here, and i can't tell what they are gonna say when they come back (if they do). I don't accept Oats or marv as lynch. Whaaaa?! Where the hell did I come into this? Now your defense of me is that I haven't been around and you don't want to lynch me because of that? What happened to your town read on me? We're supposed to believe that you're just giving up your vote and potentially moving it to a town read because you're leaving? I get having to be away, I've been away from the thread a LOT. I'm becoming very busy. That doesn't mean I'm willing to lynch a town read, though. On October 04 2013 02:00 raynpelikoneet wrote: Well i do not think Sloosh is necessarily mafia. I do not think Risen is mafia. I think Dirkzor is mafia. I hope i am gonna be back before the deadline. cya fuckers! Just confirming I'm a town read here... that you are willing to lynch... I had to rush this a bit because I have to leave, but raynpelikoneet knows too much about me without actually knowing anything about my play, his filter is filled with filler, he's willing to lynch a town read, and he's been dodging a sloosh lynch the entire game in spite of sloosh being a scum read earlier and sloosh leading in votes. | ||
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On October 04 2013 05:00 Clarity_nl wrote: So is it just me that does all the reading and analyzing BEFORE making a case? Let alone announcing that I have this great case in the works? Like this brimming with confidence thing doesn't sit right with me. There's a difference between having a feeling when you start a case and finding the evidence to back your feelings as you build the case. I've started to write cases in the past and come to the conclusion whilst writing it that someone else is scum. Sorry I forgot to spoiler that. I'm leaving again, I'll be keeping up on my phone, though | ||
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##vote: raynpelikoneet | ||
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What is your problem I just said it means he's willing to vote a town read. He didn't qualify his statement | ||
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##unvote ##vote: sloosh I don't know how this happened | ||
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##unvote ##vote:rayn | ||
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##unvote ##vote: sloosh | ||
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On October 04 2013 14:21 Oatsmaster wrote: I think marv is totally not retarded as scum. So hes town. Risen might be scum for posting another horrible case butttttt that case was on scum. Funnily enough, he never kept his vote on Rayn though. He kept switching around and seemed really like ok about doing so. Dirk might be scum still, he wasnt around during the shennies at all I think. Holyflare says things that make me want to lynch him but ill give me the noob card for now. And you would have done what? What would fucking Oats have done? Tell the world. You would have sat there and taken it? That's such a load of shit I can't believe a townie would say it, and yet we have marv. On October 04 2013 09:37 marvellosity wrote: so we think Risen preferred a slOosh lynch over lynching his main scumread rayn here? he moved off his main scumread temporarily to put his vote on slOosh just to get a majority? No, that's not what "we" think. I can't believe you're in the same boat as oats. You should read the fucking quote. There were 8 minutes left until lynch. You're saying I should have sat on rayn? My phone was dying, I could hardly read the thread b/c the backscreen was so dim, I see myself out of fucking NOWHERE get a train started on me and I don't see anything on rayn. Of course I'm going to move over to sloosh. Sloosh is someone who isn't me. And you say this after you pushed BH. Really? I'm scummy for voting someone not me when the options were don't vote not me and die or vote sloosh but you're totally town because emotion case on BH notevenscumread. This is the kind of thing you would sit in a QT and laugh and laugh and laugh about because you were soooooo clever. How convenient that you weren't around to lynch rayn, but you were there for the aftermath to immediately try and get attention off of yourself. Both of you can't be scum but wtf is this | ||
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Dirk - Came in swinging to the wrong tune, very quickly changed his tune, and for me has blended right into the game (null). Oats - this guy is crazy. Absolutely nuts and making it impossible to read him. If his meta is this as town then I imagine as scum he gets called out immediately so why WOULDN'T he play like this? I'm immune to the bullshit thinking of "too crazy to be scum". He's not null, he's scummy to me, but he's not the scummiest. marv - I never think I'll see the day where I feel marv will be playing against town as town. Of these three I want marv lynched the most. Of all the people I have played mafia with marv is the person I have come to view as the best, and the person I respect the most (I think there's a reason he was chosen as a representative). When he cracked down on me earlier I stepped away from the game (I was busy anyways, but usually I'm on my phone posting) because I thought this guy is an amazing player and he thinks I need to be better. So I thought I would read filters and post a case as soon as I was able (yesterday I was out all day barring a very small window for lunch). I woke up and read filters. I did not like rayn immediately. I went into the filters expecting to continue my case on Clarity, but I remembered how rayn played in GoT. I really hated how rayn seemed sleazy to me just like he seemed sleazy in GoT with me in PM chat, but I didn't want to say that because that's meta (unverifiable meta), I want my cases to stand on their own. So I go through his filter and make my case. Then that case gets shouted down for being too long and impossible to read. Looking back at that now, I see the problem and my cases going forward will not be like that, they will be concise and to the point. I really think my case would have been considered much more if I had posted the last summary alone. Now, for why I think marv i sscum As scum or town I think marv plays an amazing game, but I also think as scum he is prone to do more crazy things than as town. Maybe that's because I hydra'd with him. I thought marv was town because he was helping me without doing the bullshit this is totally town Risen, so by proxy he was helping town. In my mind you lynch the people who are playing anti-town, and that's it. Day 1 that's usually the person posting largely filler and sheeping and making town reads to buddy people. At the end of the day town will do their best to play for town, and scum will do their best to blend with town or they will do something that will make people think "scum couldn't do this". I do not believe that the town marv I know would try to hobble town that hard. I believe he dislikes BH a lot. I don't think he's lying there, and that's what makes for the best "holy shit I can't believe he did that as scum" plays. I said this in Noir, and I'll say it here. Town players do not make big plays like that. It's an ongoing game so I can't comment fully, but there was one thing I was pretty adamant about in that game that people did not follow. I don't think marv would do this to us as town. Lynch the person who played anti-town and then admitted he played anti-town. Tomorrow I will be voting to lynch marv. | ||
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On October 04 2013 20:06 marvellosity wrote: like, policy me all you like, but there's no chance i'm mafia. This is my biggest problem with marv. It isn't a policy lynch, it's a lynch on someone who openly played anti-town. Trying to marginalize the lynch as policy lynch is scummy as hell. | ||
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It's paranoid, sure, but the paranoia is based in reality. And I'm not wrong in the other game. Look at what that person is doing. That's not town play. | ||
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On October 05 2013 00:15 Clarity_nl wrote: Yeah... the thing I suggested was 100% a policy lynch. marv did something that is bad for town and something he should never do as town. That doesn't mean he didn't do it as town. Explain why his push on bh from a scum perspective. + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/0mIB1HM.jpg) | ||
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On October 05 2013 00:35 Oatsmaster wrote: I really wanna know why Sloosh isnt in that list that Risen posted the day before. I posted a list? lol | ||
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On October 05 2013 01:03 Clarity_nl wrote: "Oh noes, the guy I'm calling scum is telling me he's not scum and I'm being an idiot. Then someone else disagreed with me too!" "Fuck this shit, I'm out" I'm not upset about that. People will lynch the person they find scummy, I've said my piece. I'm upset about this. On October 05 2013 00:35 Oatsmaster wrote: I really wanna know why Sloosh isnt in that list that Risen posted the day before. The silence following dropping something like that is bullshit | ||
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On October 05 2013 01:17 Clarity_nl wrote: You've said your piece? No. If you think someone is scum you keep trying to convince people until they're convinced, you change your mind, or you die. Bullshit. I do that and no one listens to me. I just spam up the thread and that's not productive. I'm trying to lead town here and no one will listen to me. I even made my case SIMPLE. It doesn't get any more simple than what I just wrote. I don't know how else to explain it. | ||
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On October 05 2013 01:23 marvellosity wrote: Your case wasn't ignored. We're not being obtuse, it's just not that big a deal to get up in a tizz about it. So someone comes in, says, "I'm not actually reading the thread just trying to blend in here hodor hodor" and it's all peachy? Really? That someone is Oats. | ||
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On October 05 2013 01:25 Clarity_nl wrote: But you think marv is scum. So oats is town. So why do you care? No one is confirmed until they flip. You know this, why tare you asking me this? | ||
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On October 05 2013 02:00 Oatsmaster wrote: So yeah Risen + Show Spoiler + On October 05 2013 00:01 Risen wrote: I think we should be lynching into dirk/oats/marv. Dirk - Came in swinging to the wrong tune, very quickly changed his tune, and for me has blended right into the game (null). Oats - this guy is crazy. Absolutely nuts and making it impossible to read him. If his meta is this as town then I imagine as scum he gets called out immediately so why WOULDN'T he play like this? I'm immune to the bullshit thinking of "too crazy to be scum". He's not null, he's scummy to me, but he's not the scummiest. marv - I never think I'll see the day where I feel marv will be playing against town as town. Of these three I want marv lynched the most. Of all the people I have played mafia with marv is the person I have come to view as the best, and the person I respect the most (I think there's a reason he was chosen as a representative). When he cracked down on me earlier I stepped away from the game (I was busy anyways, but usually I'm on my phone posting) because I thought this guy is an amazing player and he thinks I need to be better. So I thought I would read filters and post a case as soon as I was able (yesterday I was out all day barring a very small window for lunch). I woke up and read filters. I did not like rayn immediately. I went into the filters expecting to continue my case on Clarity, but I remembered how rayn played in GoT. I really hated how rayn seemed sleazy to me just like he seemed sleazy in GoT with me in PM chat, but I didn't want to say that because that's meta (unverifiable meta), I want my cases to stand on their own. So I go through his filter and make my case. Then that case gets shouted down for being too long and impossible to read. Looking back at that now, I see the problem and my cases going forward will not be like that, they will be concise and to the point. I really think my case would have been considered much more if I had posted the last summary alone. Now, for why I think marv i sscum As scum or town I think marv plays an amazing game, but I also think as scum he is prone to do more crazy things than as town. Maybe that's because I hydra'd with him. I thought marv was town because he was helping me without doing the bullshit this is totally town Risen, so by proxy he was helping town. In my mind you lynch the people who are playing anti-town, and that's it. Day 1 that's usually the person posting largely filler and sheeping and making town reads to buddy people. At the end of the day town will do their best to play for town, and scum will do their best to blend with town or they will do something that will make people think "scum couldn't do this". I do not believe that the town marv I know would try to hobble town that hard. I believe he dislikes BH a lot. I don't think he's lying there, and that's what makes for the best "holy shit I can't believe he did that as scum" plays. I said this in Noir, and I'll say it here. Town players do not make big plays like that. It's an ongoing game so I can't comment fully, but there was one thing I was pretty adamant about in that game that people did not follow. I don't think marv would do this to us as town. Lynch the person who played anti-town and then admitted he played anti-town. Tomorrow I will be voting to lynch marv. No sloosh in this thread That isn't the day before, and sloosh wasn't not voting rayn. | ||
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On October 05 2013 02:23 Clarity_nl wrote: He wouldve gotten himself lynched if that were the case, though. How? He was at 4 votes? | ||
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I know sloosh isn't doing anything, but why is that scum him and town oats. To me it reads as oats trying to "meta"and sloosh just... being. He's not anti our pro, he's null. I would really like marv or Oats to be lynched, though. Lynch people who play anti town | ||
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On October 05 2013 04:24 Holyflare wrote: but you have to admit that Dirk's case on sloosh is pretty damning right? The trolling could just be because it is SO obvious already? Yes, but I'm running into a problem of "there are too many people I see as scum in this game" | ||
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How about this, how do you not fucking understand what my post was as town? I think we have the best chance of hitting scum on people who were trying to organize a last second push onto me over rayn, or didn't get into rayn. I demonstrated my thought process for you and instead it's "why isn't sloosh on that list". IT WASN'T A SCUM LIST I think we lynch marv or oats here. Oats is proposing we lynch me after sloosh like he knows what slush is going to flip and immediately coming for me? So I'm voting oats, I think we should lynch oats. He misrepresents me at every chance he gets. It isn't logical, and he isn't playing pro town Let's lynch oats. I don't buy his too crazy. Who's with me ##vote: oatsmaster | ||
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On October 06 2013 02:45 Clarity_nl wrote: I'm actually with Oats on this one. Going through your filter I have a hard time finding any comments from you about the guy who was the main lynch candidate all day. On October 05 2013 01:17 Clarity_nl wrote: You've said your piece? No. If you think someone is scum you keep trying to convince people until they're convinced, you change your mind, or you die. You should be a meme. Contradictory Guy Clarity | ||
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On October 06 2013 03:02 Clarity_nl wrote: There is no contradiction here. That's actually a fair point. Yeah you have been kinda useless. Isn't that one of the criteria for you calling oats scum? I can't tell if this is a joke or something just meant to piss me off. You've been on me all game since I wrote my case on you. You just threw my case on rayn away in spite of it being super solid in some places. I'm sorry it was too long, I'm sorry I had a little confirmation bias, but I was right. So don't put me on the same level as Oats. I DO things, and I'm not useless | ||
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On October 06 2013 03:27 marvellosity wrote: I would say that in... Golden Sun I think? I was casually following the game towards the end. rayn had figured out the game and presented the solution to town. And it appeared to me that Oats was just totally trolling rayn and I thought that because of this Oats had to be mafia, and I was sure enough about it that I asked Oats on irc to confirm. Except he was town. All the meta defenses. | ||
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On October 05 2013 04:22 Risen wrote: ...I think his partner got lynched and so now his plan is just to troll the entire game so no one will lynch him. ... | ||
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On October 06 2013 23:51 Oatsmaster wrote: And its really fucking weird that Risen doesnt want to vote for sloosh today, but was willing to vote for him yesterday. I can't get over this statement. He's holding onto it where marv realized he was wrong. Why is he holding onto it so hard? Why isn't he willing to put in the effort to think? Because he feels he doesn't have to because he's scum | ||
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On October 07 2013 11:24 Oatsmaster wrote: So when Im trying to advance the game in the situation that sloosh flips town, Im horrible? Explain how that works Risen. That's not what you were doing. | ||
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On October 04 2013 14:21 Oatsmaster wrote: I think marv is totally not retarded as scum. So hes town. Risen might be scum for posting another horrible case butttttt that case was on scum. Funnily enough, he never kept his vote on Rayn though. He kept switching around and seemed really like ok about doing so. Dirk might be scum still, he wasnt around during the shennies at all I think. Holyflare says things that make me want to lynch him but ill give me the noob card for now. Like... what happened to this? On October 04 2013 14:29 Oatsmaster wrote: No I think holyflare is town!! Oh... On October 04 2013 19:32 Oatsmaster wrote: Thats cause you're bad. I mean, Ive done at least 10 stupid things, Right MARV? Marv, risen is town cause he couldve gone on sloosh with 4 minutes left, same with clarity. And HF. But sloosh couldnt have. Maybe it was between 2 scum day 1. Yay I'm town! On October 04 2013 23:15 Oatsmaster wrote: Yeah Im thinking its either Risen or sloosh with sloosh slightly ahead. Wait... I'll stop the quote spam, but you contradict yourself every other post. Now you've decided to tunnel me and you've stuck with it, but you don't actually DO anything. That's why I think you're scum. I'm not off base here. | ||
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On October 07 2013 23:08 marvellosity wrote: Risen did move his vote to slOosh at the deadline actually. I've pointed it out before but it's one of the most interesting bits of the whole lynch. This is a main reason I want Oats lynched, and yet we have mr lynch me d2 coming in with the same point. Tell me marv, would you have kept your vote on someone if there was a last second bus being moved onto you? No, you wouldn't have. You would have kept a no lynch or yourself lynch from occuring and would have voted sloosh. This is so fucking scummy. You're not stupid, Oats isn't stupid, you both can't be scum and yet you're both doing the same exact thing. So this screams to me that you're scum playing to Oats' fears. If I'm scum marv I'm shooting HF tonight and riding Oats to a Risen lynch then lynching Oats as the creator of the Risen lynch. You even have HF in the thread saying exactly why Oats is wrong on this point and my post from earlier saying why this post is wrong and you STILL say something like this. Why are you soft pushing this so hard? Why don't you find Oats scummy for his push on me when you should? Town marv sees this and finds Oats scummy and wants to lynch Oats in spite of the whole quote me d2. | ||
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Nah, just something I do every game in an attempt to make people better. | ||
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On October 08 2013 03:16 Oatsmaster wrote: The whole point of the rayn lynch is to get you cred. Thats how it works. And you cant see this. Thats really odd Risen. For being such an accomplished scum player, you CANNOT see what the mafia point of view for bussing Rayn. That means you are scum. Totally caught Ace by this heuristic. No, you're wrong. I know the point of bussing, I see the point of someone doing it. This is an AHA moment you're trying to push when it's not. You're desperately clinging to something that isn't there. That's scummy. If either of you actually said, Risen is just bussing his teammate and then backed it up with anything that would be another story. Instead we have you saying oh look how he tried to get sloosh lynched when Risen was the only other candidate. I respond to that point and you jump out with AHA! SEE SCUM! Get your fucking push straight. No one is this incompetent. This is Oats trying to fabricate something that isn't there. | ||
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On October 08 2013 03:17 Oatsmaster wrote: I questioned him multiple times WHY he had the townread on me, im pretty sure. Scum like to give townreads because then they dont have to fake suspicion on people. But not too many townreads. I see. When I call rayn for having a town read on me it's scummy, when you do it it's kosher. Got it. More scum bullshit. | ||
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On October 08 2013 04:20 Oatsmaster wrote: Maybe bus is the wrong word. You guys only decided to bus after BH started pushing hard and rayn got votes. Not before that. Who pushed Rayn before that? Clarity and HF. Also clarity is totes town other than the Rayn thing. My question to you Risen, is why dont I just push Dirk as scum? Isnt that WAY EASIER? I can make a case focused around the HF vote at the start and probably stuff surrounding rayn. Its not that hard. So your defense is WIFOM. Cool. | ||
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On October 08 2013 04:23 Oatsmaster wrote: Oh ok my bad. Clarity still town for basically repeating marv numerous times and also being town. Totes town. So you admit to not reading the game or lying. Cool. At this point you're either town intentionally playing horribly because you're afraid to go back and appear scummy, or scum intentionally playing horribly and won't go back because you must stick to your meta. | ||
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On October 08 2013 04:32 Oatsmaster wrote: Its true. And its not WIFOM. Tell me Risen, if you are scum, would you push Oats or Dirkzor? Also I say shit like that in NONE OF MY SCUMGAMES. Its my version of STARSENSES So... more WIFOM? And if I was scum I would push you without hesitation. What kind of a setup question is that? Who asks a question like that? Who lays traps like that? town players don't do that, becuase it creates an internal WIFOM meant to confuse people. | ||
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On October 08 2013 04:53 Oatsmaster wrote: Oh lol as if you would push marv/clarity/hf. You would get absolutely SLAMMED. Risen, why would you push me as scum? Also, what trap is there? Its not a setup question. Everything I post you construe as scummy. Thats tunneling Risen. Good townies dont tunnel. I guess you are playing as bad as me if Im town. Sad. Im not even gonna say anything about the Clarity thing because its such a small thing that both scum or town wont bother to check it anyway. You didnt check it. I'm not the one who said it, why should I have been the one to check it? YOU are the one making claims based on bullshit in this trhead,. IM NOT THE ONE WHO HAS TO CHECKK YOUR SHIT FOR YOU, YOU ARE. HOW IS ANYONE THIS FUCKING BAD AT MAFIA. If you're town enjoy being on the list with Mocsta and Geript. If you're scum, get better. You're ass. You're so clearly scum I am shocked, SHOCKED you weren't lynched yesterday. It's a fucking TRAVESTY no one else got their shit together to lynch you yesterday,. I don't know how many people it's going to take saying "Damn Oats that's scummy" before everyone gets their shit together and lynches you. I'm going to have a fucking heart attack talking to you. It makes me want to break down and cry with anger that there exist people like you in this world. People who make it a goal to troll TL mafia games and ruin the enjoyment for other people. What trap?! Anyone who reads any response to a question like that is going to have to run the gambit of "But wouldn't that be something scum would say? But then no, they'd realize that and not say it." before coming to the conclusion that it's pure WIFOM, but the seed has already been placed. Your statement did it's job. It was a pure trap question. Good townies point out scummy shit. I see scummy shit and I point it out. You're trying to discredit me so no one else will listen to me. And slammed for pushing other people? I WANTED MARV LYNCHED LAST NIGHT BEFORE YOU CAME AND TROLLED THE SHIT OUT OF ME. I was even considering that maybe you're just a lemming that marv was riding. I came to the conclusion that maybe you were town and you liked to troll people. You liked to make them upset. You like to ruin their enjoyment of the game because that's what got you off at night. But no. No one is that rotten of a person on TL. If you | ||
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He doesn't read the thread He lies He trolls He didn't vote to lynch rayn He's purposefully playing to his meta I think that should be short enough for people. I'm out until morning. I need to cool off. | ||
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On October 08 2013 07:36 Oatsmaster wrote: Wanna bet Risen still calls me scum? Yup. Dunno about the dirk thing clarity, it seems kinda nullish to me. What else are you gonna say if you vote someone for all the wrong reasons and get caught out for it? You're right, I do still think you're scum. Now you go and discredit my pressure again. You can't just brush people off when you're town. Towns don't discredit the people facing them this hard without anything backing up their discrediting. I'm all about the ignore pressure your posting will speak for itself until you don't speak for yourself. Like all your filter at this point is trolling me. And yet, and yet everyone is focusing on everyone else like I'm completely off base. Will people respond to my "case"? I made it 4 lines long and there's no quotes. It isn't hard. If you're town you should be responding to me before the night ends. | ||
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On October 08 2013 07:46 Clarity_nl wrote: You're saying "he lies" when what he's done is say something about what happened that is wrong, could easily be bad memory Oats trolls as town too. He's not the only one that didnt vote rayn This last point is silly. How is he "purposefully" playing to his meta instead of just playing his meta, how do you tell the difference? Thank you for talking to me. 1) That's fair 2) And that's ok? If you had never played a game with him before and he was doing this what would you think about him? Meta lets people blend way too easily. 3) That's fair, there's marv and dirk, too. I will calm down and look at them, from memory marv is scummier for reasons I have already said and if no one will lynch Oats lynch marv 4) That's fair, I meant it felt so fake, and I was right that it was fake, btw. I feel I should point this out, I called him on faking his shit and the second someone else called him on it he admitted he was faking. | ||
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On October 08 2013 08:04 marvellosity wrote: fact that Risen has me as scummy makes me discount his Oats read somewhat. no way am i the 2nd scummiest dude in the game, and if he thinks i am, then it makes me trust his other reads less. Really? The guy who pushed for BH lynch and admitted it was for OOG reasons, then pressed for sloosh lynch while saying "1 for 1 me bro" when Oats was in thread trolling, then brought up how I switched to sloosh after it was already shown that anyone in my position would prefer to lynch them over themselves. What else have you done other than try to appear town this game marv? I see you posting a lot, but what have you done? I've made cases, real cases that you have continually dismissed. How funny that you dismissed my rayn case even after I said just read the bottom of it? And you say no way are you the 2nd scummiest? You most certainly are. | ||
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On October 08 2013 08:13 Clarity_nl wrote: HOW DOES THAT WORK IF OATS IS SCUM THEN EVERYONE WITH A TOWNREAD ON HIM IS TOWN Oats hasn't flipped. Do you know something I don't? I had a scum read on you d1 and this looks pretty bad to me. | ||
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On October 08 2013 08:16 Clarity_nl wrote: You've been calling him obvious scum all this time and now you're calling everyone with a townread on oats suspicious. >.< It's a layer thing so my #1 scum read is Oats because he's so fucking scummy it hurts. Apparently my feelings on him are bad because they're not wrong but might not be right. Ok. If I take into consideration I'm wrong, then that means Oats is town. If I accept that Oats is town, what should I do? Find the people defending him. Why are you defending him so hard? If anyone bussed rayn I think it would be you, the person who was screaming rayn is NOT a lynch (self-admitted) until the last second. You've been riding that juicy town cred for a while now and all we have to show for it is a sloosh lynch. | ||
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I can only think of this move making sense coming from marv, dirk, or Clarity because it makes no sense for HF to do it. HF has been riding his town cred since day 1 and wouldn't shoot Oats here. Town would mislynch itself into a loss if he was scum and simply shot me or Clarity. He'd have to be trolling to do something like that. It's just a matter of WHY do that for him? I can't see it anywhere making sense. Marv + Show Spoiler + Why is marv alive if he's town? It's n2 and if he's town he's usually the most important/useful person in the thread, instead we have BH d1 and rayn dodge, sloosh d2 (though if we're being honest marv wasn't the only one on sloosh, but why didn't he put pressure on Clarity for last minute bus and he did on me and he didn't want to lynch Oats with me), and now what? Marv knew that Oats would get lynched today if he killed me in the night and when Oats flipped town he would be the lynch day 4. How does marv live through two lynches when he's been called out and has gone for the 1 for 1 gambit, been wrong, and not lynched his partner, and tried to troll lynch and got doctor killed (but it was totes emotion guys)? He throws a wrench into things. By killing Oats in the night he discredits me because I was wrong about Oats and sets up for the "anyone but marv" lynch today. Anyone but marv gets lynched and then he night kills me tomorrow (assuming he doesn't get me lynched today) leaving marv/3 other people who probably won't lynch him because he has TWENTY SEVEN PAGES OF POSTING IS THIS REAL? Boom, marv wins the game. I bet when he thought this up he was so smug. Marv is smug whether scum OR town, but I bet he was sitting there chuckling to himself especially hard on this one. If marv is alive at day 4 he isn't getting lynched. I will be dead and/or everyone else will just let him slither his way into "Oh I would NEVER do all this as scum, NEVER! Tehehehehe" Something that actually makes me not want to lynch marv here is that he wanted to do a 1 for 1 trade he was so sure sloosh was scum. I offered the same thing to Pandain and Pandain scoffed at it in Noir and he turned out to be scum. Clarity + Show Spoiler + Clarity was suspicious to me early on, but as soon as rayn called me town I nailed him and when Oats started trolling me I tunneled onto him. It's Oats' fault and I'm never going to play with him again, he's as bad as Mocsta and Geript. Going back to Clarity, I find it funny that he swapped back with so little time left. He pretty much guarantees a sloosh lynch day 2 with his move with things staying as is and sloosh swap to rayn to save himself. I've been catching flak for a potential bus all game, but because I don't ride marv I don't get to be super awesome. If Clarity is scum, I can see him shooting Oats over this On October 08 2013 07:37 Oatsmaster wrote: Oh man. Lol Clarity is playing a really good scumgame then. but that's a stretch. I don't see anything else in Oats filter recently that would make Clarity shoot Oats. If Clarity is scum why not ride an Oats/Dirk/marv lynch? That's three people he could have for today and tomorrow to lynch. It makes no sense for him to do this. BUT MAYBE he's afraid because people have been alerted to his last minute swap to rayn over sloosh now so he is afraid of going to day 4 as someone with a potential bus case being formed against him. It's a crazy play, but is anyone seriously considering lynching him? Before people might have considered him d4, now maybe he felt he had a better shot making people go crazy. This is actually a better reason to shoot Oats than the quoted statement. Or maybe he shot Oats because Oats was screaming that Clarity was totes town along with marv and he wanted to lynch dirk/marv and people would begin to suspect why such a strong town read for so many people was still alive? This doesn't apply to HF, in my opinion, simply because the game would have been so much easier for HF as scum to kill sloosh. Clarity's swap gets him town cred while lynching someone who was going to get lynched d2 anyways following a sloosh lynch. This seems really paranoid to me. If this were the case I'd have to accept that Clarity bussed his teammate with minutes left d1 when he wasn't a scum read for many people, then shot Oats while he was still not that high a priority for anyone because he was afraid of going into day 4 with a potential bus case developing on him. Ugh, it's twisting my brain around in circles and this feels ranty. It's such a needless risk for Clarity here. Dirk + Show Spoiler + Dirk has cases on him, he's been useless all game. He defends himself without pushing much of anything. He's the clear lynch here come day 3 with Oats gone and a town seemingly unwilling to lynch marv, so why shoot Oats? I think the same thing applying to marv here applies to Dirk. How does Dirk live through two lynches? How does he get himself to the finish line? He throws a wrench into things. He makes people think themselves out of his lynch. He rides me to a marv lynch today and then Does something fucking NUTS tomorrow to not get himself lynched. Is it possible this hail mary is his only option here? Has he essentially given up? Why not go for Oats/marv lynches is the thing holding me back. Presumably he's got my backing for both of those lynches, so why throw a wrench into it? I can only think he would throw a wrench into it because he felt the rest of town wanted to lynch him today over Oats or marv. It should be noted that I gave dirk a pass because I didn't envision a scenario in which one of Oats and marv weren't scum. That was stupid of me. Dirk might be counting on me to continue to be stupid, and I'm here to let him down. Logically, Dirk is the most likely to try something like this because desperation. Four pages of filter isn't necessarily damning assuming quality over quantity, but most of his filter is defense. Here is what bothers me most in his filter (two quotes), double spoilers ftw + Show Spoiler + On October 05 2013 00:30 Dirkzor wrote: Risen I don't know why you are complicating things. Marv played really pro-town until the BH thing which I don't think I'll ever truely understand. I don't understand why he would do it as either town or scum so I'm left with believing his claim to hate BH. Instead you should read my case on Sloosh. Say you agree and we lynch sloosh. I'm coming away from this with the feeling that Dirk knows marv is town. He doesn't say marv is a town read, but he certainly implies it HEAVILY. It's the kind of thing someone would say if they later wanted to go back on what they said earlier. What marv did was anti-town, plain and simple. Qualifying it is scummy. The second quote should have set me off earlier, but I guess that's what happens when someone trolls you. + Show Spoiler + On October 05 2013 17:14 Dirkzor wrote: ##Vote Sloosh Sloosh your "case" leaves much to be desired. You kinda scoot over everyone. If you really think I'm the last scum make a real case. Just on me. Not everyone. I'm sure you'll see that I ain't that bad. I'll look into Oats since I'm not really sure about him. Just because Sloosh looks like the clear target we have to keep this going just in case. Oats what did you mean by this: Seems fairly straightforward to me. Oats wanted to know why sloosh wasn't in my earlier list. This reads to me as Dirk trying to blend as if he is contributing without actually contributing, a clear sign of scum. Oats then goes on to go attack mode on Dirk. This lends credence to the fact that Dirk has to make a big play in order to live past day 3. But why doesn't Dirk know that everyone else will simply see through that? He does. He simply has no other option. Do nothing? Get lynched d3 or d4. Do something? Town might stumble and kill themselves off. Most logically it's Dirk. Big play, but still logical, it's Marv. Only way I see this happening is if he's afraid of bus momentum starting and wants to throw a wrench into the works play, Clarity. Jesus fuck if HF is scum and did this I just want to know why? Regardless, I am going to go to sleep. Maybe HF is in the same boat as Clarity and wanted to make town panic and scramble so people wouldn't look into him more closely in spite of people continuously saying "I'm reading HF's filter and he's coming up town" but then why is HF alive? That's the same thing I'm wondering about marv, though. Maybe he's afraid of something he posted coming to light, though, and decided to throw a wrench into the mix. I am going to read Clarity and HF's filters very closely tomorrow, but I think after thinking about this and thinking it through Dirk is the lynch. ##vote: Dirkzor | ||
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And I'm not mad marv, I'm just tired. | ||
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You did it. In spite of BH warning everyone and everyone going down with your name on their lips you've managed to win it. Congratulations marv. | ||
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##unvote ##vote: marvellosity | ||
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On October 05 2013 00:23 marvellosity wrote: If you think I am mafia, please refer back to this post later on. I wish to lynch slOosh. If we lynch slOosh and he flips town, then you can lynch me straight after. And if I argue you can just quote this post. I'm happy to take the 1 for 1. Then discredit me preemptively so no one will ever lynch you as long as you stay active in the game On October 05 2013 00:24 marvellosity wrote: how is it dumb? from Risen's perspective, I'm guaranteeing myself a loss as mafia. which i'm happy to take. | ||
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And BH said don't let marv get away. Don't let him slither away, and no one listened. The game is over. I see why Oats was lynched now, because he's crazy. He would have lynched marv just for giggles. | ||
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On October 10 2013 02:03 marvellosity wrote: if you don't do meta, why do you keep telling me how i play as town? when you are constantly wrong? Because meta is not something you don't use marv. I don't mean meta is bad when I say don't use meta in cases. Meta is bad in cases because other people should keep meta in their heads. If you share meta as a thought process and then use things to back it up that's ok. That's not what anyone ever does, though. They put meta as a central point of their argument, when really it's just a support point that led you to view the person as scum in the first place. It's what confirms initially and makes you look at the person. Then you find the things in that person's filter that are scummy | ||
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On October 10 2013 02:09 Holyflare wrote: Posted a while back, why not just reaaaddddd things and say that? This was all just discussed. And what happened with that HF? | ||
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He comes in, he makes his case, gets shouted down for it and says he's done with it all. That's town behavior I can sympathize with because everyone always does it to me. That combined with him not spamming. I think that's pro-town of him. What's the point of responding to you all? You all say he's scum and you're very clearly unwilling to move your votes off him, so fuck it, and fuck all of you. It makes perfect sense to me. | ||
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On October 10 2013 02:15 Holyflare wrote: You want me to tell you because you didn't read it or is that rhetorical "because it ended up useless" post waiting to happen? No, I'm saying what become of it. I'm pointing out to you that nothing became of it. What happened with it HF? Nothing happened with it. | ||
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On October 10 2013 02:17 Clarity_nl wrote: If we were all so certain we wouldnt have spent the last 10-20 pages talking about/to him. I mean the other part though, where everyone else but him is scummy today. I respond to that in the post you quoted. I'm assuming you mean why have all of you have played anti-town today? Look at the bolded. The only shame is that you can't all be scum for this, but it does make you all more scummy. And the fuck it part is me coming from his perspective. You've all just said ah fuck it lol he's scum just like you all conveniently did with sloosh. Game over! Let's circlejerk until the cows come home! But what if Dirk is town, have you guys stopped to consider that? HF did stop and do that, then just let it drop. That's pro-town of him to bring it up, but why would he drop it so easily? Simply looking at today and nowhere else I'd say HF is preparing for a marv lynch tomorrow where he can point to that post. But then, why are Clarity and marv part of the spamming? I need to look more in depth at who started the spam fest and who kept it going. I've been assuming it was marv, but maybe it wasn't. | ||
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On October 10 2013 02:27 marvellosity wrote: "you're all scummy for posting too much" is simply not acceptable. That's not the point I'm trying to make. Who is posting content in all these things? The vast majority of it is filler. The vast majority of all this is filler and you three talking things out that could easily be done in your head. So WHY is all this happening. WHY is all this filler happening. Why is someone posting today this much that could just be done in their head? To appear active, to appear as if they are contributing. That's why I'm saying you're all scummy from this, because you're all doing it, it isn't just one of you. And why am I the only one who is seeing this? | ||
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On October 10 2013 02:28 Clarity_nl wrote: Remember how certain you were about oats, risen? I do. + Show Spoiler + On October 08 2013 05:11 Risen wrote: I'm not the one who said it, why should I have been the one to check it? YOU are the one making claims based on bullshit in this trhead,. IM NOT THE ONE WHO HAS TO CHECKK YOUR SHIT FOR YOU, YOU ARE. HOW IS ANYONE THIS FUCKING BAD AT MAFIA. If you're town enjoy being on the list with Mocsta and Geript. If you're scum, get better. You're ass. You're so clearly scum I am shocked, SHOCKED you weren't lynched yesterday. It's a fucking TRAVESTY no one else got their shit together to lynch you yesterday,. I don't know how many people it's going to take saying "Damn Oats that's scummy" before everyone gets their shit together and lynches you. I'm going to have a fucking heart attack talking to you. It makes me want to break down and cry with anger that there exist people like you in this world. People who make it a goal to troll TL mafia games and ruin the enjoyment for other people. What trap?! Anyone who reads any response to a question like that is going to have to run the gambit of "But wouldn't that be something scum would say? But then no, they'd realize that and not say it." before coming to the conclusion that it's pure WIFOM, but the seed has already been placed. Your statement did it's job. It was a pure trap question. Good townies point out scummy shit. I see scummy shit and I point it out. You're trying to discredit me so no one else will listen to me. And slammed for pushing other people? I WANTED MARV LYNCHED LAST NIGHT BEFORE YOU CAME AND TROLLED THE SHIT OUT OF ME. I was even considering that maybe you're just a lemming that marv was riding. I came to the conclusion that maybe you were town and you liked to troll people. You liked to make them upset. You like to ruin their enjoyment of the game because that's what got you off at night. But no. No one is that rotten of a person on TL. If you Well I was wrong about Oats. I was wrong about Oats so I stepped back and looked at the game from the logical standpoint of who would do something like that. Dirk. I ignored how glaringly obvious the conclusion was and said that's WIFOM to get caught in something else. I didn't consider that, as HF and I have both pointed out, Oats had the potential to lynch marv, whereas the rest of us can't get it done. It's pretty clear I can't get it done. It's pretty clear you and HF both have town reads on marv. He can't shoot me, though, because then you guys might acually listen to me. Ignoring all the WIFOM that comes with shooting me, the clear thing to do would be to lynch Oats or marv. Everyone who goes down with the exception of Oats thus far has said make sure you fucking lynch marv because he will slither his way out of getting lynched. And I've already covered Oats. | ||
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On October 10 2013 02:29 Clarity_nl wrote: Like Risen, if you are town, reconsider. Is there a person in this game that you haven't called "SO FUCKING OBVIOUSLY SCUM"? You and HF. I'm going to step away from the game and eat. Then I'm going to go through the game from day 1 under the assumption that marv is town. I will assume ever single thing he has done has town motivation. If Mocsta be horrible town, then marv can to, right? I just haven't done so because it's marv and marv is supposed to be good. But this is exact;y what scum marv would want me to do but that's WIFOM. WIFOM should be ignored and I should play straightforwards without it. | ||
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On October 10 2013 02:36 marvellosity wrote: Only 3 townies have died, and only the one who died longest ago wanted to kill me Risen stop making shit up it's getting annoying Sloosh didn't want you dead? Really? | ||
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On October 10 2013 02:51 Dirkzor wrote: I was making some of the same arguments in my "trap" or whatever you want to call them. They didn't come from logic but from fear of being played. Now Risen is agreeing with me. Most likely means he is scum, where my vote is. But that gut fear is still there and Risen is hitting it just right. I'm agreeing with you? No. Don't try and fucking twist this. I'm the one who made everything on marv, you have simply sheeped ME. I'm the only one who has pressured marv through this entire game. Everyone else backs down. Don't try and make me look shitty here. Why are you trying to make me look like I'm the one doing the sheeping when it's you? I'm not playing with a fear of being played, I'm pointing out that all of you are being played, but you seem pretty sure that marv is town to me from this. You're hedging your bets with your "I'm down to lynch marv or Risen" hoping to catch someone that will mislynch with you. In a game of five people, if your vote is on marv here, a top scum read for you, that's 2 people. One of Clarity and HF has to move over. Clarity has expressed that he won't but he did the same thing with rayn. HF has expressed doubt with marv openly in thread. So it can't be that you are afraid of not being able to grab someone. Like, literally, why aren't you voting marv here? Is it because you know marv and I are town so you are trying to play us off each other? I'm town. I know I'm town, so you give me the option of marv and say you've created the marv train in the hopes that I will accept that. I created it, though. It's been slowly rolling since n1 and his bullshit with saying how my vote swap was suspicious when it was the farthest thing from suspicious possible. Like why does town marv think it's suspicious, I can't get over that, but it's the thing that's been holding me onto him this entire time. It's a strong only thing, though, like it's literally in my mind as town marv does not not see that. It's so glaring to me, but I know it's only glaring to me because I'm the only one who knows I'm town, so I have to find other things in his filter that are scummy but as far as I can tell it's only scummy the other things because I'm the one seeing it from my perspective. If I discount that then we have him making the same exact plays everyone else has been making and we have YOU. I also need to consider that a town Oats did the exact same thing as marv did. Marv can't even have sheeped onto it because marv was the first one to do it. I need to reread everything, but I'm moving my vote back to Dirk. ##unvote ##vote: Dirkzor | ||
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On October 10 2013 02:58 Dirkzor wrote: Okay. Risen is scum. Thats final. He agreed with me on marv. I had decided that meant scum. Nevermind, not even the both options route, just the well hopefully Risen gets the votes route. | ||
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On October 10 2013 05:31 marvellosity wrote: You look at the game of mafia as a whole very, very, very wrong if you think me being suspicious of you for moving your vote AWAY from me is a scummy thing. Why would a mafia player hammer at someone for making them look good? The reason I found it suspicious is because the Oats nightkill in no way looked enough to overturn your read on me, so it looked artificial. You can argue until you're blue in the face that it's logical, but it just isn't... You're misinterpreting what I said or misrepresenting it. I'm talking about what you did at the start of n1. I'm up to page 31. | ||
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##unvote ##vote: Clarity_nl | ||
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##unvote ##vote: Dirkzor I need to make a case, but I'm also starving and tired. I read all the way up to today and made notes almost the entire time. If you're town Dirk I'm sorry I couldn't save you, but I have Clarity dead to rights now if you're town. | ||
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On October 11 2013 00:51 marvellosity wrote: because being able to discuss the case while everyone is alive is worth more than whatever nightkill shit you think you're avoiding? like, only if the case is on not-Clarity would what you say even start to make sense :/ What? No. Posting it sooner gives Clarity more chances to base his kill around the case | ||
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+ Show Spoiler + HF Comes in with his "reasonable" line for Oats. Plays the noob card. I already made a case on it. Scummy Defense seems fine until he starts justifying his play. Why do you as town need to do that? Why are you concerned with that. And why do you play the noob card, and when called on it immediately say you're actually a really strong player. Why do that? Why call yourself a noob and then say you aren't a noob? Why the quick 180? That's scummy Oats comes in and finds HF scummy, then again he finds BH scummy So HF is pushing me hard now, but it's based on my opening post? Why doesn't he find marv's opening post scummy? He says here he feels he's the weakest out of us, and yet has already stated he views himself as a strong player and now he's calling me out for saying I'm stifling dicussion when I've done the exact opposite. And here again he's trying to force that sheeping the RNG is reasonable. It's not. If it's reasonable to do it d1 then it's reasonable to simply RNG lynch the entire game. That isn't the case. But now the RNG vote is a means to an end? I thought it was simply reasonable. We see him first mention rayn here. He again posts a defense of RNG. Again, it's simple, if RNG is the best system d1 then it is the best system for all days. That's not reasonable. I think this is him sticking to it because if he backs off he's afraid of appearing scummy. More defense of RNG. Again ignoring that if you accept that RNG d1 then you have to accept that RNG is the best thing to do throughout the game. Now he finally responds to my point that reading people's posts is the way to go. So maybe he is town. This entire interaction hasn't felt very townie, but then it isn't necessarily scummy. It is someone holding onto a point for too long. BH finds me scummy for not pushing HF when all I did for quite some time was talk to HF. Oats again talks about how he has a scum read on HF from his reaction to me. Lots of Oats calling HF scum. BH lists Oats, me, HF as his top scum reads. BH read on Oats is that he finds HF scummy, read on me is that I'm not pushing HF in spite of the fact that I did, HF for the same reasons as Oats and I suspect him. HF finds Oats scummy, but what happened to me? Is HF setting rayn up to call me town and try to buddy me? HF has Oats as his top scum read. Very much so at this point. BH and sloosh come in defending HF, say I'm scummy. HF immediately reappears following a small push from Dirk onto him. Why is it that when HF makes giant posts summarizing people's play and his thought process he doesn't get shouted down but when I do it's immediately a thing. How do you see what rayn is posting and not find him scummy? Jesus here I am reading Clarity and finding him scum and HF is doing the same exact thing. marv points out something that a townie shouldn't say. At this point HF and Rayn blow up the thread. It's too much too fast, I don't see how they could coordnate something this long. HF pressuring Rayn but not voting, why aren't you voting rayn? Town points for understanding what I was trying to say. Why are you questioning the doctor claim? Town doctor instantly counterclaims for the 1 for 1 there. Town points. Calls out Oats for his bullshit. Not a "Risen is town I won't vote for him." instead "What Risen did was town because X." This post seems really, really knowledgable about me in spite of the fact that you don't KNOW I'm town. Echoing what I'm thinking right now. Why don't you see that Clarity HAD to be the hammer? Points out what I was thinking about marv before I reread the entire fucking thread Asking marv to 1 for 1 at this point is stupid. He has already shown that he won't 1 for 1 after saying he was 1 for 1ing. Why do you expect him to do so here? That's fishy. Clarity Opening post don't know how he can think HF is town and that sloosh are town here, says BH is not a lynch candidate today. Says he needs to wait to see what I am based on what my scumreads are. Calls out Oats, but doesn't actually call out Oats as scum because meta. For some reason says Oats is town b/c pressure on HF but that doesn't apply to me? Trying to buddy Oats? Something interesting here. Clarity has just called sloosh town, and then a couple posts later he says he doesn't find sloosh town. Feels the need to justify his feelings. That's scummy. Says he's eager to play but the game doesn't have much meat. Not much meat? There's a lot of meat here. You have people voting, people calling other scum or town there is a really good amount of stuff to go on here and instead he sits around doing nothing because there's not enough meat. Why is he sitting in thread doing nothing waiting for other people to do something? This is blending. That's scummy. Sheeps onto Dirk. It's really bugging me that he called himself out for an earlier thing, though. Why are you preemptively defending yourself? Clarity sheeps marv on Dirk. Why didn't you see this in the first place? Clarity supersheep mode activated. No contribution, just parroting marv. What the? Only now that marv is actually having a conversation with dirk do you ask why marv found the vote opportunistic? You literally just saw his reasoning and said, yeah that sounds good to me. That's shady as shit. Are you preparing for a Dirk lynch and him to flip as town by expressing doubt? Clarity brings up sloosh, someone who has very little posting to go off of and what has been posted was already discussed. Why aren't you leading the conversation on sloosh here? Why aren't you contributing yourself? There is a pattern of sheep, sheep, sheep, blend, blend, blend. That's scummy as shit. Clarity calls out a contradiction that isn't there. Really feels like he was sitting there and as soon as he saw something he pounced without thinking it through. Where is the town motivation to do something like that? There's plenty of scum motivation to do so, though. Clarity once again preemptively defends himself by saying if he was scum he would sheep marv. Why even say that? Clarity says long posts are cool. Clarity pushing Dirk pretty damn hard. This clarity/rayn back and forth seems really pushed. Like hey clarity back and forth with me in thread so it looks like I'm contributing I make my case on Clarity Clarity's defense isn't really a defense. It's like he's scummarizing everything I said. He even says yes to some of the things I call him on. The thinjg that sticks out to me most is his sheep of rayn here. Rayn now with a town read on me and Clarity with a read that leaves himself open to go either way and follow rayn or not. Rayn starts pressuring Clarity and all of a sudden just backs down. Clarity again tries to broach the subject of a sloosh lynch. He really doesn't like sloosh. He must really want sloosh lynched. Sloosh even calls him on it. BH comes in and starts up a rayn lynch, Clarity immediately begins to pressure Dirk some more right after BH has just said he won't support a Dirk lynch for the day. Clarity says rayn is the easy lynch. The easy lynch? Clarity starts backing down from his pressure on Dirk. How convenient that Dirk receives an endorsement from BH and you start falling off. Looks like Sloosh should be Clarity's push then. More back and forth on rayn. Yeah sure I could lynch rayn, but then ehh I'll just figure him out later. Clarity really trying to make the appearance that him and marv are on the same page. As was pointed out earlier, town Clarity and marv are always on the same page right guys? Right? Clarity and marv make almost identical posts right here. Clarity and marv make almost identical posts right here. Man, they must be thinking really similar. Something that bugs me, though, is that Clarity keeps bringing this up when really anyone who is around should be making the exact same points these two are making. So Clarity is asking someone he had a scum read on to join the wagon of justice against sloosh, the person he's slowly been building up to this whole time without blatantly saying it. ?!MGKRLEGKmn$ETGNMELTGNKE$LGNK HOW DID I MISS THIS!? Clarity calls rayn on the point that makes rayn scum to me. Instead of pressuring rayn on this, though, he provides rayn a way to come back off it by shifting things to ME. Rayn and Clarity having a small mini discussion while Clarity is missing the glaringly obvious that rayn should not have had a town read like that. Clarity himself says Risen would do that as either alignment, why are you not calling Rayn out here? WHY? You don't find it scummy that rayn is trying to protect me by using a 3P game as evidence of my towniness? Really? Like how is this not screaming "LYNCH RAYN" Clarity defends HF from rayn, though. Why? Are you afraid that your partner is going to get lynched and need to find something outside a vote that will allow you to say "damn see look here I was coming around to him being scum" Clarity again does this. Doesn't vote rayn Clarity sheeps marv's "rayn won't be lynched today by me" point completely setting up a "oh damn I liked what marv had to say about the situation so much I dropped everything I had begun feeling about rayn" I say I'm writing up a case on rayn and he says are you writing a case on me. To me that says Clarity is afraid I've found something and wants to get the jump on it. He's so paranoid it's going to be about him that he doesn't consider it being on anyone else. Preemptively deflecting my case. Says the dumbest, most infuriating thing someone can say to me after I've just explained what I was saying "I dunno, you tell us." I'm getting mad sitting here reading it again. It quite clearly means that rayn is scum because he doesn't care where his vote goes as long as marv leads it so he can later say "Oh marv placed my vote not me". Now that people are saying I have good points at the second half though you conveniently aren't responding to them. Marv at least responded to the very relevant points I brought up on rayn. I don't know how I missed all this. Sloosh and HF are talking about the points I brought up, marv is talking about my points, why aren't you talking about rayn? Why are you avoiding rayn so much? You sheep marv here but don't vote for BH in spite of marv and sloosh being on him at this point. Why? Then you defend BH while simultaneously pushing me. Like Clarity what happened to your scum reads? Suddenly you're asking who's more likely to flip scum of me and Oats? Is it a coincidence that we are the two people outside sloosh who have pushed you at some point this game? I don't think Clarity looks good post-doctor claim. Clarity is back to pushing sloosh. Just kidding the pressure is back on me. How convenient considering that the person you've been slow rolling so hard is going to flip town and you'll look super scummy. There's me, though, who other people have been expressing doubt about. If there's a definition of opportunistic push Clarity is it here. You can't explain how a scum marv would do that? I can. Easily. Do I think a scum marv would? I guess not, but I know he could do it. A town Clarity should know marv would be capable of it. A scum Clarity who knows marv is town would say something like that, though. Scum use emoticons. How good did that feel Clarity? How good, after you had been soft pushing me forever, did it feel when Sloosh voted me. It must have felt insanely good. Nevermind it's coming from the person you have your vote on, that's enough to covince you that I'm the proper lynch. Clarity doesn't want to overcommit to a mislynch, though, that would make him appear scummy. Instead he asks other people if they're down with lynching me. Rayn isn't happening. In spite of the fact that rayn has more votes than me and people are discussing a rayn lynch, rayn isn't happening. It isn't happening? Or you don't want it to happen. Like HF says he's down with a rayn lynch here, you know BH is down, and that makes 3. So how do you stop a rayn lynch? You flat out say rayn isn't happening and pray. Then you ask rayn in thread sloosh or Risen. At this point rayn has more support for a lynch than me and the thing that convinced you to lynch me is coming from your top scum read. How am I the only one who's caught this? So you are wavering on sloosh, but you're totally willing to lynch me who you simpoly consider a liability? WHAT?! LOOK AT THIS Clarity sees the opportunity to lynch me and set up a sloosh lynch d2 and so he tries to start up a last second train. That would mean rayn and him would get 4 KP off and just win d3 since they now know who the doctor is. Clarity sees rayn trying to cause a no lynch here and is still pressuring me. Why? How do you see what rayn is doing and say, yeah that dude is totally not scum over Risen. And sloosh from earlier is suddenly dropping off for Risen. HOW IS NO ONE SEEING CLARITY IN ALL THIS!? HE JUST VOTED SLOOSH OVER RAYN! Sloosh consolidates onto me and Clarity sees that with a no lynch today, rayn is gone tomorrow. Clarity sees that marv is not moving his vote. He knows how bad it's going to look for him when rayn flips scum. There's nothing left to do, he busses his teammate. Clarity is openly mad in thread following rayn flip. Is he mad because he genuinely doesn't want to play with rayn or because rayn just got himself lynched and now Clarity is all alone. So is all that anger post-flip genuine anger that rayn got himself lynched. How does BH come away with Clarity being town through that? He even says in the same sentence that rayn and Clarity near simultaneously voted sloosh. No BH, Clarity couldn't do that, because he would in effect be declaring himself FOR a no lynch. Clarity prepping himself for sloosh flip by saying "damn sloosh's death post was super sincere I just don't knowwwww" Really clarity? You really want to lynch sloosh? Because before the flip of rayn you were wavering on sloosh. This inconsistency seems like super bullshit to me. Clarity isn't hardly pushing anything outside of defending rayn. Almost nothing has changed pre-flip to post-flip and here is Clarity sheeping marv again. Why are you buddying marv here instead of pointing out how not pro-town an ultimatum it is for marv to be making? Why are you acting like I'm supposed to have a 100% scum read here? The only people with perfect information are scum. Why didn't I catch this earlier? Look, you're trying to misrepresent something, marv calls you on it, and you crawl back into sheeping marv. Hahaha, funny that you're using things to point to a scum sloosh at the end of d1 when if anyone would actually read the end of day 1 you come out looking the MOST scummy by far. How are you way more confident in a sloosh lynch Clarity when just prior to lynch you were wavering. This makes NO SENSE. And you have a town read on marv? Color me shocked. Well thank god you're so certain now on sloosh, because it looks to me like you're leaving yourself open to Oats or Risen should something arise. What have you done with any sort of certainty beyond try and save rayn until you couldn't any longer this game? HOW CAN YOU SAY THIS TO HOLYFLARES POST?! Just earlier you were musing out loud about how you would probably lynch BH if he was alive day 2!!! Once again leaving the door open to lynch me down the road here. He says I called all three of the people not on sloosh scum and that I imply sloosh is town. No, that's not what it was at all. This is Clarity preparing for sloosh townflip. Calls me out for not discussing sloosh when it's more Risen isn't really discussing anyone at all because I've been busy as shit. Why are you fingering one person? More Clarity flailing attempting to poke holes that simply aren't there. He's posting just to post and appear active. Boom marv comes in with a town read on me and suddenly Clarity is back to "yeah Risen totes town" Why do you think I'm town Clarity? You aren't actually saying. Just kidding we're back to hedging and why do you want to lynch Risen Oats? Clarity just posted that he was willing to say fuck it and lynch marv because doubt factor not because he finds him scummy. That just happened. Another defense of me. Who do you actually find scummy? Why do you literally defend everyone? Is it because you know everyone else is scum? The only people you don't seem to defend are the people everyone else wants to lynch. Clarity sees the town reads starting to pile on me so he needs to set up someone for the next two lynches. The candidates as he says them are Dirk and suddenly we have some suspicion of HF. Let's see if he goes anywhere with it or waits to see if someone else picks it up. Clarity hedging against a potential Dirk flip here to make it look like he was totally beginning to see the light. Do you know Dirk is town? You'd like to think you're obviously town? And what have you done outside sheep everything, push nothing to make you look that way? Clarity tries calling me out for suspecting people when there's only one scum left. So? What if I'm wrong? That means I need to stop my hunting? That means I need to stop sharing my thought process? Why are you trying to shut down my discussion? Umm... what Clarity? The nice thing about only one scum left is that you can blindly believe marv on HF being town right after you've said you're starting to suspect HF? How many times is Clarity going to say he's town while just sheeping marv? HF was just on Clarity's probably scum list and all of a sudden it's lynch dirk/Risen to win the game. What happened? No one posted a defense, no one said anything beyond marv saying HF is simply town and that's it. And we see why Clarity would shoot Oats now. In spite of having a meh read on HF and a town read on me, he has a total town read on marv and is willing to sheep marv's reads entirely. So lynch dirk, then lynch risen. Ez life indeed. But wait! HF isn't actually town, no you're just "plugging your ears" so you can potentially mislynch him depending on who you choose to take into the final day. More casting of suspicion on HF? Color me shocked. How convenient that a potential bus by you is covered by marv knowing about your past play since he was in that game. Hey look, you're trying to convince someone you've been hedging for a while now to lynch me over marv. Here's the issue, though... how do you know marv is going to be alive day 4 following a Dirk lynch? How do you know marv is going to be alive day 4 following a Dirk lynch?How do you know marv is going to be alive day 4 following a Dirk lynch?How do you know marv is going to be alive day 4 following a Dirk lynch?How do you know marv is going to be alive day 4 following a Dirk lynch? Why are you defending marv so hard? No townie should be defending an unflipped person more than one person has expressed doubts about so hard. Marv First vote on Dirk is simply for voting HF. Openly admits that he hasn't read what Dirk wrote. Marv reads the case and has good reasoning here for voting Dirk, but why do it like that in the first place? Clarity asks if marv is afraid of someone beating him to it. I think this is a good point. Marv brushes it off using sarcasm that resays exactly what Clarity called him out on. Seems scummy. Not the sarcasm, but that marv would be sarcastic and paint Clarity as stupid there instead of just respond. It reads as him trying to discredit Clarity. So I'm not the only one marv has been mean to this game. That's not in his favor, but it does mean he isn't scum for being a dick to me. Something in marv's favor is that he shuts down Clarity trying to spam openly in the thread. Why are you asking someone about their thoughts on you? I hate this shit. It feels like you're trying to prod people to post because you're trying to determine potential night kills, but you're making people post with it and that's pro-town. It just doesn't feel like anything. Oats says that marv doesn't bus as scum, which brings up another point against marv in that he was conveniently absent when rayn was being lynched. Pro-town posting from marv. Pressures rayn. Rayn dodges. No response to my case on Clarity? Oh, some things are good but too much confirmation bias. Ok, so what things were good? As town shouldn't you be pointing out the things in the case that you agreed with? Instead it seems like you're kind of defending Clarity here, why? Marv in spite of some confirmation issues, looks town. Why do you call me out on the Noir QT post when I actually made a post in thread at the same time? I don't know why this hasn't stuck out to me before. 11:53PM ET in Noir and 11:50PM ET I'm in the thread asking people how they feel about my case on Clarity. That's like, so scummy. Why would you say something like that without double checking as town? Then why would you do something like that as scum? It casts doubt on me and that's scum motivated enough for me. That's like super shady. Marv calls out his main scum read Oats for having a scum read centered on me making an opportunistic push on Clarity. This should confirm Oats as the one who should be lynched today. Why are you defending me so hard here against your main scum read? Oats says if we lynch scum today marv is probably town since marv would defend his partner. Calls my afk concerning. I agree with him here, how does he know that I'm out? A tell of whether or not someone is scum is how much they're willing to push their targets. Why am I not around? There's no way for marv to know I'm not at my computer. Marv says something I agree with 100%. No need for scum to try and correct town being bad. It isn't alignment indicative on its own, though. You say you don't understand why rayn is doing what he's doing. Earlier you said you understand town rayn. Why aren't you finding this scummy? Why aren't you pushing this harder? Is it because scum marv doesn't push his partner and tries to deflect? If that's the case he certainly does a good job deflecting with "I don't think rayn is a good lynch today. While I don't like his absence for the first part of the day, or the way he kinda floated around the thread while he was here, his push on Holyflare feels like a town-rayn thing." Did marv just make a mini-list post? Rayn just called on this, why isn't he callign marv on it? Says I'm scum for making a case on rayn. Why haven't you found these things? I'd expect a town marv to find these things. Then again, I'd expect anyone town to find these things. I get the post was long, and I called out filler too much where I should instead post "he posts a lot of filler". Is this marv deflecting away from my case? Well marv has read the second half of mycase and he has found things he likes in it. Why does he think I think sloosh is rayn's scum buddy from that, though? That's not what I'm saying or said in that post. I'm saying why isn't rayn showing any interest in sloosh who is leading the votes right now while simultaneously not being useful. There's a huge difference there. I point this out. Marv melts down in thread. On its own I don't see town motivation for this, I don't see scum motivation for admitting your pressure was for OOG stuff. If we accept you are scum, though, then the pressure like this that outs a doctor needs a reason. Scum marv could have easily sheeped sloosh moving onto BH. Instead he says OOG. I don't think it's pro-town, but clearly I've overestimated town marv. Reading through the aftermath and ugh... it's making no sense from either alignment. It's WIFOM. And what to do with WIFOM? Ignore it. Sloosh's defense of marv is very true here. I don't understand what BH means when he says what a backtrack here. Says I'm scummy for swapping around on sloosh near deadline, apparently Oats thinks the same, though. Why are you misinterpreting what my vote swaps did and giving Clarity a hall pass? How are you possibly finding me more scummy than Clarity at the end of that day? I come in following all the stuff Oats and marv has said about me and I'm in tunnel mode. Marv doesn't crack under anything, though, and well, Oats is town. I don't know how I saw what marv was doing as scummy and glossed over Clarity here. Damn I hate 1 for 1 posts but I did nearly the same thing in Noir with Pandain and I was town and he was scum. BH discusses how if marv is still around he'd get himself out of a lynch. Paranoia meter is ticking but I'm not allowing that to sway me here. Lots of back and forth between marv and BH. Not alignment telling here. Really good point about how dirk really only defends himself and does nothing else Good case on Dirk Calls out Clarity for being so flaky and not actually pushing anything the entire game. What has Clarity seriously done all game beyond the Rayn lynch where he had no choice? How on Earth do you call what I've been doing hedging? I said lynch Oats, lynch marv. The end. No hedge. How do you not see Clarity hedging THE ENTIRE GAME? Is it because he sheeps with you? He sheeps with you and then you say oh see he's being reasonable! How do you see this and think because he has to and you look at Clarity and think town? Like, you were wrong about me and you've admitted it now, so I can see this post being made under false premises, but how does that not immediately make you think "Holy shit Clarity has been sleeping on my back shooting people and I'm his horse!" Really playing to emotions there, didn't you already do that this game? Finally realises what I fucking said over and over throughout the game. I don't know whether to laugh or cry. I'm not crazy enough to shoot Oats. If I'm scum I'm carrying Oats and HF with me to the endgame. HF would be with me in lylo against Oats. There's no way he gets WIFOM'd into voting me over Oats. Dirk Marv pointed out why his HF vote was bad. Dirk responds to HF but dodges marv's point that he just voted HF with no real backup. Marv explains this as opportunistic and it is. Marv again calls out Dirk for something Dirk did that was scummy. Dirk is playing really inconsistent. That's not scummy, but losing track of your reasoning is. Are you trying to fabricate reasons as you go for voting HF? That's SUPER scummy. Like why does a town player do that? Admits he wasn't actually reading the thread and just trying to sheep me/Oats. Dirk now says his vote was simply to stir things up. So this is the third reason coming up now to vote HF. More post-vote fabrication of reasoning. Martyr, martyr, martyr this early in d1. So much day left and he's martyring. Drops a WIFOM bomb openly in thread. Anti-town play. Oats hops on Dirk train and Dirk doesn't eat him alive for it. Does he know Oats is town and is trying to maintain the buddy he set up earlier? Is Dirk defending rayn here? Nevermind, he's down with the rayn lynch. He straight up says Rayn looks like a good lynch here. Dirk says sloosh or rayn is the lynch. At this point he knows I'm on rayn and BH is on rayn. How is sloosh so sure you're town? Good point. Oats calls Dirk on his justification of his 180. It's scummy. Calls rayn scummy, doesn't vote for him. Rayn is getting desperate and he votes Dirk. Why is he voting his scum buddy here if Dirk is scum? As far as I can tell Dirk is still a major contender. The dude sheeps and afks through day 2 and day 3. It's scummy, yeah, but not as scummy as what Clarity just did. Dirk night posting is sheepletown. "Sloosh 100% scum hodor hodor" Why are you pressuring me to vote sloosh? Is it so it's that much easier to blend? More tunnel of me onto Oats instead of looking at the people around me. So fucking impossible to view people as town when they're doing things that townies shouldn't be doing and not admitting they were wrong. This is how town players defend people. They call out other people saying things that simply aren't true. They don't just say "this guy totes town" Dirk trying to rally town to do things. Nitpicking me there and not calling out Clarity? How do you dig into day 1 deep enough to find my nitpick and not find what Clarity did? That's super scummy. How does town dirk see what Clarity did at the end of day 1 and say "totes town"? Why are you trying to sheep me? If you've read the game up to this point you'd know Clarity was the other scummy player, though paranoia would dictate that marv could be scum. You do some scummy stuff, don't get the reason why marv's push is actually wrong, and then end up on me. The absolute most scummy thing about Dirk to me is that he can read day 1 apparently, and not come away with Clarity as the clear scum. How do you not read anything past day 1 and not see Clarity as scum? How do you come to the conclusion that the two people you're willing to lynch happen to be the people the thread sentiment would acually have a chance lynching outside of you. It seems really opportunistic. WIFOM defense is super not solid. Why are you defending yourself with WIFOM? Why aren't you going into the thread and seeking out reasons your main scum read is scum? This makes no sense. Holy shit I just made a post an hour or so ago saying clarity is scum because the end of day 1 and here you are playing almost exactly like scum would if they were trying to squirm their way out of a lynch! Marv with a really good point. How are you not considering a bus? How have you not read the end of day 1 and come to the conclusion I have? Like, I'm convinced any townie who does that will come away thinking Clarity is scum, and yet you haven't and apparently you and I are the only ones who have done so. Jesus fuck I'm going to vote you today. Lol if you're town you've fucked this game so hard by posting without understand what actually happened. Like if you're town it would be so much better to simply say you don't know. Why are you trying to flail and come up with post-case reasons for your reasons? I slammed on someone earlier for this, and it still holds true. This is super scummy. Well, only one thing left to do to avoid a Dirk lynch, better get on Risen. The person you've had a town read on. Says he's voting me because he wanted to see who would try to get marv lynched. I made the marv cases, I pushed marv from day 1, not you. This is desperation through and through.Now you're talking with marv about how town I am? And your vote is still on me? LOL Martyrpost HOW ARE YOU SEEING MY POSTS AND NOT CLARITY'S SURROUNDING THE DAY 1 LYNCH IT'S LIKE YOU'RE PURPOSEFULLY AVOIDING THE SCUMMY SHIT BECAUSE YOU KNOW CLARITYB IS TOWN | ||
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I began entertaining a HF scum because of his hedge on that last page in spite of your scummy let's talk about NKs earlier and you do that. Nope | ||
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United States7927 Posts
Sheeping marv all game Discrediting everything preemptively Trying to soft push nearly everyone this game and never actually pushing anything, clear sign of scum | ||
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On October 11 2013 02:11 Clarity_nl wrote: I'm sorry that you only had like 16-18 hours to make the case that you said was really convincing You're in Europe so maybe you just don't understand US Pacific Coast night times. I literally spent almost all day yesterday taking notes, I was exhausted and needed a break from thinking. I wake up this morning and realize that maybe I should let people see my notes so they can respond to them, the case is in there amidst all the summary, and here you are discrediting anything that could potentially be pointed out about you like you have been all game. It has literally been "Oh shit I just did something scummy I better backtrack and qualify" all game with you | ||
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United States7927 Posts
2) You also say really early, but then I'd do that as scum lolololol. This is part of point number 3 where you hedge and call yourself out on everything in the hopes that no one will afterward be able to point it out 3) No, it isn't just giving opinion. It's beyond demoralizing, it's you saying nah that's stupid and don't listen to that point before anyone can make it. Why are you so concerned with preemptively defending yourself from things? Why are you so afraid of the appearance of scumminess 4) Sloosh d1 soft pushed all day, me d1 soft pushed all day, HF soft pushed for a while now, me continued soft pushed for the whole game. | ||
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United States7927 Posts
On October 11 2013 02:16 Clarity_nl wrote: I just realized your massive text blogs on HF and marv are basically cases on them as well. That's the point of notes. Find all the scummy things and then compare them to see who comes out the scummiest. | ||
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2) Here's the qualification. Then why didn't you simply say that's fishy at the time? 3) I will, in my case. 4) My definition of soft push is the very definition of it. You have consistently throughout the game brought up people, waited for others to catch onto them, and only then supported a lynch on them | ||
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This post began as a case and turned into an analysis of Clarity's entire game. If I'm alive tomorrow and it needs to be shortened I will shorten it, but it seems easy to read to me. I want everyone to know my thoughts in an organized, coherent manner. I'll reference the posts, but won't include them in here because this would just be too long. If you're going to shout me down for it being too long just don't read it. Read it tomorrow if I'm dead or wait for the summary of this I'll make for you. The thing is massive. A lot of it is summary, but wherever I have summary I have included a reason for the summary. It's there to reinforce my points about the patterns I see in Clarity's play or I wanted all my thoughts to be out there. + Show Spoiler + http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=430498¤tpage=10#196 His opening post comes in with a lot of town reads but nothing of real note. Why give town reads there? I'm already against giving town reads in general, but why give town reads there? You should never give town reads because that gives scum information for the night kill... unless you're just flat out not worried about giving scum information for their night kills and want that town cred. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=430498¤tpage=11#201 retraction http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=430498¤tpage=11#205 justification Why does a town Clarity feel the need to justify his retracted town read and say "I totally wasn't laying a trap." Why not just leave the retraction? Better yet, why not explain in your retraction what you find scummy about sloosh? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=430498¤tpage=11#208 This is filler, and I wouldn't point it out if it didn't set the course for what Clarity has done all game, blend. Why does Clarity look at around 5 pages of posting and think there's nothing to talk about? Why does town Clarity decide there's nothing to talk about, and then ask BH if there's anything he'd like to talk about? Why are you just sitting around doing nothing and not contributing. It's pretty clear that BH has been active in the thread, so he's already talking about things. Why are you asking him what he wants to talk about when he's already talking about something? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=430498¤tpage=11#213 This is the post immediately after Dirk makes his post. So Clarity is around and sees that post. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=430498¤tpage=11#219 Jumps on marv for dropping a vote without actually reading it, which means he's around and reading the thread, and has read Dirk's case on HF. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=430498¤tpage=12#223 Says he totally agrees with Marv's reasoning, not just after reading Dirk's post but after also calling marv out and getting smacked down for it. Why is this scummy? Because an apparently suspicious of marv individual immediately does a 180 and sheeps with the suspicious individual after not finding Dirk's post suspicious. It goes towards the blending throughout the game that Clarity does. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=430498¤tpage=12#240 Clarity questions his sheep vote after Dirk begins to defend himself. So you agreed with marv earlier after doing a flip around of your suspicions, and you still agree with him because you say you're not going to move your vote (why say that at all) and then you defend Dirk while still not moving your vote. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=430498¤tpage=13#246 First sloosh soft push. Why? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=430498¤tpage=13#250 No reason. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=430498¤tpage=15#283 More sloosh pressure, not alignment indicative, just here to establish the pattern. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=430498¤tpage=15#292 First instance of Clarity/marv brofest, but Clarity's post is 3 minutes after marv's. Plenty of time to make a sheep post. If the posts were made at the same time like later ones I'd be more inclined to believe it really was two people thinking the same. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=430498¤tpage=15#294 Why say this when marv is clearly making the first posts and you're sheeping him? This is really suspect, because it implies that Clarity is trying to paint the picture in marv's mind that this is typical Clarity sheepage when it really isn't. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=430498¤tpage=15#294 This is where Clarity and rayn first interact with each other. I think it's telling. It feels forced. Read the entire conversation through and ask yourself, "Is there really anything here?" As far as I can tell, it's Clarity giving rayn a summary of what has happened without noting that the need for him to summarize for rayn is scummy, and then leading rayn through the conversation. Didn't I get called scummy for summarizing things in my cases even though in addition to summary there was actual accusations and things that needed to be answered? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=430498¤tpage=17#336 Clarity's defense of my initial case on him. None of it is particularly alignment indicative, but the very ending where he agrees with the town read from rayn is sketch as fuck. Why? Because why does rayn have an unqualified town read on me? Why isn't Clarity pointing this out? Why is Clarity advancing this point? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=430498¤tpage=17#337 More rayn/Clarity interaction. This time Rayn begins to pressure Clarity and immediately drops it. Like no follow up post, just a Clarity response that is super sketch and then nothing. Why does rayn go nowhere with this? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=430498¤tpage=18#347 Back to sloosh. It appears here that Clarity thought giving town reads meant town. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=430498¤tpage=20#385 Just kidding, back to soft pushing sloosh. Note that his vote hasn't been on sloosh at all this entire game to this point, as seen here http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=430498¤tpage=20#386 , and yet he's been soft pushing him over and over. This unwillingness to commit to a vote that isn't a sheeped vote seems really odd. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=430498¤tpage=21#408 Clarity case on Dirk. Damn, he must find this guy really scummy, I wonder if he's going to maintain that pressure. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=430498¤tpage=21#412 First defense of rayn. Calls rayn the easy lynch instead of addressing what has made people think rayn is scummy in the first place. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=430498¤tpage=22#433 Marv comes in with a defense of Dirk and unvotes, note that this occurs shortly after Clarity has begun waffling on Dirk after BH endorses Dirk with an "I don't want to lynch him" post. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=430498¤tpage=22#434 Clarity says marv is sheeping him, again attempting to paint the picture that marv has been sheeping Clarity and they therefor have similar thoughts. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=430498¤tpage=22#435 Marv immediately catches it, Clarity responds that he has been joking. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=430498¤tpage=22#437 Marv calls out what, in essence, is a defense of everyone post. Like you can't find anything scummy out of everything that has gone down thus far? Other people find people scummy, why don't you? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=430498¤tpage=23#448 Clarity is defending me against Oats by saying I was the first to push him. Clarity clearly has a developed awareness of the thread, but his awareness doesn't extend to doing anything beyond soft pushing sloosh? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=430498¤tpage=25#486 Sweet, someone bit. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=430498¤tpage=25#489 I normally wouldn't have a problem with this vote, but it has come now after a serious amount of soft pushing. Why wasn't your vote on him earlier? Why did you need Dirk coming in and finding sloosh suspicious before you moved your vote there? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=430498¤tpage=26#504 Another defense of rayn. Don't think it's a defense? It's what Calrity has been doing all game, but now in favor of rayn instead of himself. He calls out the scummy thing, and immediately slides it under the rug by shifting the attention to my attitude following my case. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=430498¤tpage=26#507 Didn't you guys already have this almost exact conversation? Didn't you include something very similar to it in your defense of my case? This is followed by more defending rayn. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=430498¤tpage=31#602 Unproductive? There's so much in the thread. You have your vote on sloosh. You have cases all over the place, and you call it unproductive? This fits the pattern of Clarity trying to paint a picture for people that doesn't resemble what has actually happened. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=430498¤tpage=32#625 How about the reverse, do YOU have a read on rayn? Why are you asking for other people's reads on someone you've defended while not commiting to anything on? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=430498¤tpage=35#697 Continuation of a soft push that has been building on me for a while now. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=430498¤tpage=37#729 More soft push, but this time he's not the one who had to get his hands dirty, so he can just point the finger at marv. Why didn't you check the times here if you're going to bring it up? Why soft push me, aim the blame at marv, and then slink away? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=430498¤tpage=42#821 Sees my name in a post, sees the word case, immediately rushes to make a post hassling me. Wouldn't town Clarity have taken his time to read my post here 15 minutes prior? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=430498¤tpage=41#816 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=430498¤tpage=43#846 Sloosh makes a really good point here. Why is Clarity speaking for rayn? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=430498¤tpage=43#850 You knew rayn's response because you asked BH the question? Is that a scum slip? I don't see town Clarity doing something like this. Did Clarity realize his error and then slip up with this? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=430498¤tpage=44#865 More defense of rayn. No, rayn was quite clearly in thread willing to vote for someone he had a public town read on. He listed the people he thought marv would direct him to, and then said marv choose someone. That means exactly what I was saying at the time, that rayn was willing to lynch a town read. Why have you spent so much time defending rayn instead of looking into what others have found scummy about him at this point? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=430498¤tpage=45#895 Nah, don't lynch rayn, lynch Risen http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=430498¤tpage=46#914 Unexplained town read is bad for anyone not rayn. It's really just a lot of rayn defense towards the end of page 7 in Clarity's filter. Go there yourself. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=430498¤tpage=53#1055 This sounds really familiar, who could be just like that I wonder? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=430498¤tpage=56#1113 "Hey guys you willing to move over to someone I haven't really made a case on but is not named rayn?" http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=430498¤tpage=56#1120 Rayn wagon gaining speed, won't lynch rayn. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=430498¤tpage=57#1134 Desperation is setting in, thread sentiment is leaving sloosh. Who can possibly get enough votes to at least cause a no lynch? Risen. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=430498¤tpage=58#1142 Still a person not named Rayn. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=430498¤tpage=59#1169 Directing rayn to me. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=430498¤tpage=60#1186 Directing holy to me. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=430498¤tpage=60#1199 Rayn is trying to cause a no lynch and Clarity is still unwilling to lynch him. Still trying to push anyone not rayn. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=430498¤tpage=61#1214 Not rayn. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=430498¤tpage=62#1235 Finally rayn. In the end where there is no option left to Clarity but to lynch rayn or watch rayn get lynched d2 and then himself d3 Clarity moves over. The sequence of defenses and pushes onto people he actually doesn't make a case on but are not named rayn are what make Clarity the final scum. He's done it before, conveniently in a game marv was a part of. Sweet. Let's look at Clarity that game in Mario Mini. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=381440&user=Clarity_nl¤tpage=6 Look at page 6 in particular. Does he defend someone who is going to flip scum? Sure, but only because of the last second nature of it. Nowhere in his defense of rayn does Clarity say that. Rayn's lynch isn't last second, because cases HAVE been made against him, unlike the hapa situation where Clarity says there have NOT been cases made against him so don't lynch him. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=381440¤tpage=71#1403 Here with rayn the only similarity is an unwillingness to lynch. I'm only addressing this because you all seem to love meta so much and this was used as a defense of Clarity earlier. Marv in this night does something that's anti-town, but that I have done in a very recent town game of mine, offer the 1 for 1. It doesn't seem alignment indicative to me, though, and could honestly be slightly scummy, but Clarity is of the opinion 100% that marv is town. How does he have such certainty? Up to this point he's simply been sheeping marv over and over. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=430498¤tpage=69#1375 Marv is pushing someone, better make it apparent that marv is the driving force behind this push though and not you, just in case sloosh flips town and someone sees how much soft pushing you've been doing. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=430498¤tpage=73#1454 This should indicate that a town Clarity would be doing the things he advises, but he isn't. He's just saying this to try and paint me in a bad light. Where has Clarity actually pushed a read of his all game with any conviction? I see the Dirk thing after Dirk is already suspected by the thread and nothing else. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=430498¤tpage=83#1644 I've tried to avoid it, but I really fucking HATE when people misrepresent what I say. It doesn't help that Clarity has been misrepresenting a lot of things already this game. I didn't call three people scum. I said very clearly I felt we should be lynching into people not on the rayn train. It also conveniently happens that both my top scum reads were marv and Oats because both of them were saying something that was straight out WRONG. Something marv has come out and said he was wrong on. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/postmessage.php?quote=1651&topic_id=430498 More misrepresentation of me by Clarity. Are you setting up for a lynch on me after sloosh? (First part scummy, second party speculation) http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=430498¤tpage=84#1673 Now that rayn has flipped scum you call his town read on me weird when before it didn't even make you suspicious of him (I'm making an assumption here, since you defended him so hard) In my notes I have something about Clarity calling me town only after marv does. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=430498¤tpage=89#1761 He tosses out that he might be willing to lynch marv after sheeping the guy throughout the entire game. This reads to me as someone who is keeping their options open because they know sloosh is going to flip town, but he totally still has a town read on marv. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=430498¤tpage=92#1829 What's with the pointless question? There's regular filler, not that scummy, and then there's filler where someone is simply posting in an attempt to blend. This is case number 2. Clarity knows exactly what it means. In fact, after sloosh has flipped town Clarity is all about the Dirk lynch, so why is he expressing surprise here? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=430498¤tpage=95#1891 I said it in my notes and I'll say it again here. This IS confirmation bias, but it fits like a glove. Clarity sees everyone left giving out town reads on me and decides he needs a new patsy, and who is left? He can't say marv at this point, he's been riding him since the beginning of the game. He has to say HF. I can't stand straight up town reads he's handing out, either. So he has HF and Dirk left to him. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=430498¤tpage=97#1940 What happened to HF? Do you stick to reads at all? Seems to me it's been sheep marv and stick with it all game long. How convenient that very recently before this marv has given HF a town read. Screw your suspicion earlier, marv has a town read folks! http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=430498¤tpage=107#2124 I'm really fucking bothered by this post. Where did you drop your HF suspicion? It literally is, "Marv had a town read on HF and I dropped it entirely." This is so fuckign scummy, how are you blindly trusting Marv like this? Very recently in your filter you advocating for lynching me over Dirk your main scum read here so I couldn't lead a mislynch onto marv at lylo. HOW DO YOU KNOW MARV IS TOWN? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=430498¤tpage=107#2127 Seems like a totally town thing to do. Drop off a HF scum read and then scoot away. I swear marv called sloosh out on something like this early in the game. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=430498¤tpage=111#2201 And what are you doing to remedy the situation? Looks to me like you're once again soft pushing the shit out of someone and waiting for someone else to come along and grab onto it. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=430498¤tpage=117#2335 Another preemptive defense that casts a shadow on anyone who would dare cast suspicion on Clarity or marv who are both confirmed town right? No. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=430498¤tpage=119#2364 Another dop off he waits for someone to pick up on. Dirk grabs on. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=430498¤tpage=119#2371 Shouldn't this be something you do before casting the suspicion? How fucking scummy is this? HOW FUCKING SCUMMY IS THIS? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=430498¤tpage=126#2509 You're willing to simply accept that you've sheeped someone from day 1? Is that because you know marv is town? Is it because you know you're playing with a town marv? And now we're to tonight. We have Clarity's trolling and his fishing for night kills. Nothing clears him tonight, in my opinion. Mini-TL;DR: All of this is very similar to what I have already posted, but here it is again. End of day 1 is nothing but defenses of rayn trying to avert a rayn lynch. This is not similar to Mario Mini, as someone made a case for Clarity to be town because of, as I pointed out in all this. Clarity's opening posts look scummy, why is that? Because he doesn't have marv to sheep off of entirely yet. Clarity has tried to brush off my point that he discredits and preemptively defends everything as himself giving opinions, I have shown in here that he has a pattern of doing so throughout the game and it is not just giving opinions. I have given examples of Clarity's soft pushes in here. They are drawn out patterns, but they are there. The only thing Clarity has shown any concrete towards this game was Dirk day 1, and he only held onto that as long as the thread held onto it. | ||
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You thought Rayn would be more useful than me? Really? Rayn, the guy who hadn't actually done anything all day, more useful than me, the guy who had generated discussion with three cases? | ||
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On October 11 2013 08:39 Clarity_nl wrote: Here is my rayn train of thoughts regarding lynchtime. rayn his vote is somewhere useless rayn shows up a little time before deadline rayn starts acting like a fucking idiot rayn his vote is being useless elsewhere now How is that scum play??? He moved his vote from somewhere useless to somewhere useless. And yes, based on your case on me and your case on rayn day 1 I felt you were less useless than rayn. There's a mistake somewhere in here hmm... | ||
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On October 11 2013 08:45 Clarity_nl wrote: The fact that I explained that right above your post and you squarely ignore it says enough So you're admitting now that you just weren't paying attention at the end of day 1. Cool. | ||
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##vote: Clarity_nl | ||
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Regardless, what I wrote is long but very easy to understand. A majority of the length is giving examples of the patterns I pointed out. I think it's telling that clarity earlier says town players hunt for scum and push for their scum read's lynch, but is now trying to use that against me. Not even going to touch the not making a case part. He's trying to paint a picture of day 1 that simply isn't true. I was busy all that week, just like I'm busy now. Activity can be a tell when people straight lurk, but I think I made the most of what little time I did have when I was busy. I did drop my scum read on you clarity, because I was convinced Oats or marv had to be scum for trying to misrepresent my end of day 1 play. Marv said he was wrong on that and I felt that was a very town thing to do. I think that's why marv was killed. Before you could have ridden marv or me to a mislynch on the other, after I found him more likely to be town than you that changed and you had to kill one of us. You couldn't kill HF last night because he largely kept his thoughts to himself until the end, even calling us both scum at different parts of the night. Your points on me boil down to Risen was busy so made the most of what little time he did have during day 1. Rage when townie flips? Continuing the misrepresentation. I raged at oats and marv for their misrepresentation of me, which I found scummy. At the end of the day what else can scum do but try and misrepresent town actions as scummy? I tunneled because of that. The fact that you can't see HF as potential scum makes me more firm when that's all you're going off to call me scum. | ||
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Meta this meta that. How about you idiots actually put some effort into your games instead of letting scum roll into wins. Exactly like scum games? Where do I scum hint in my scum games. I don't. Fuck off | ||
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##unvote ##vote: holyflare Why hunt scum, though, right? I'm fucking suck of this. You didn't do shit all game hf. Neither did clarity. Where has ANYONE but me actually put any effort into this game. I'm with my fucking grandmother helping her ship and this happens? I'm done. Either one off you fucks could be scum. Done with tl mafia. | ||
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##unvote ##vote: clarity_nl Have to believe he's telling me | ||
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I should have known when I posted it earlier it would be an omen for this game. Here's a guide for how to play TL Mafia + Show Spoiler + | ||
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On October 13 2013 05:47 Holyflare wrote: But risen, what makes you so sure I'm not the last scum? Apparently most of the things I've done are scummy and I haven't read the game, isn't that indicative of scum play? How dare you fucking ask me this question. Did you get piledrived by the Rock when you were a kid? You asked the same exact shit of Clarity only difference is I WASN'T sure you were town but I took the time to go through this fucking game and make a case. I searched out everything scummy and came to a conclusion? I BUILT A FUCKING CASE AND SLAVED OVER THIS GAME? MUST BE SCUM BROS HAHAHAHAHAHAHA LET'S LYNCH RISEN, LET'S TROLL RISEN IT'S SO FUCKING FUN HAHAHAHAHAHA | ||
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On October 13 2013 06:37 Holyflare wrote: Making a case on someone = confirmed town? Maybe I'm playing a different game to you. If all i have to do is spend a lot of time making someone look scummy in a case to not be lynched then everyone would be winning town games 24/7. Your case pretty much calls everything I do as scummy by the way... Nope. Not town. Town wouldn't say that. Master scum troll confirmed. There's no way, NO FUCKING WAY a townie does this. My entire case on Clarity? Throw it out the window. No reponse necessary. All the scummy shit Clarity did around end of day 1? LOL JUST MESSIN AROUND BRO HOLDING TO USELESS CONVICTIONS. Sheeping marv all game? That's my town meta bro metametameta hahahahahahaha META. WE'RE ALL PANTS ON HEAD RETARDED MY NAME IS HOLYFLARE AND I'M FUCKING WITH PEOPLE WHO SPENT WAY TOO MUCH TIME ON THIS GAME WHEN THERE WERE THREE PEOPLE LEFT HAHAHAHAHAHA ISN'T IT FUNNY RISEN? Fuck you Holyflare, I hope you're town. I fucking HOPE you're town. I'm never playing a fucking game with you ever again. How are YOU so convinced Clarity is town, huh? I figured Clarity had to be scum for the last second bullshit day 1, the sheeping of marv all game, and all the other shit I pointed out. But you're just buddying him nonstop. You don't need to say anything about why I'm scum because you can't. Lalalala meta meta meta. THE PERSON WHO HYDRA'D WITH ME AS SCUM HAS A TOWN META READ ON ME, he's played a lot more games with me than you, and you're fuckin certain on a META read? Meta SUPPLEMENTS a case, meta isn't a fucking be all end all. ##unvote ##vote: Holyflare You almost did it. I don't even know why you fucking trolled me. I honestly don't know. It all makes sense now, though. Killing Oats wasn't a mistale on Clarity's part like marv thought, it was you trolling because you think you can get away with it. NO TOWN PLAYER LOOKS AT CLARITY'S END OF DAY ONE AND THINKS THAT GUY IS TOWN. I didn't kill you because of a town read on you? Bullshit. Oats had a town read on me, marv had a town read on me. If anything you were ambiguouis during the night. You're spewing bullshit that isn't true. I'm so fucking DONE with this game. I have solid scum reads on both of you. Coin flips are bullshit, so I'm voting the one who pisses me off more. Grats if you're scum Clarity. | ||
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I got lynched today without a case being made on me at fucking LYLO. ITS FUCKING LYLO AND SCUM IS WALKING TO VICTORY TOWN ON THE BACK OF ONE OF YOU. Grats. Fucking congratulations. | ||
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So now it's time for callouts Fuck you marv for pulling your shit day 1. Fuck. You. You threw off everything in this game and scum winning is your fucking fault. And fuck you for misinterpreting my end of day 1 shit for two whole fucking days after I repeated over and over what was wrong with you but you wouldn't fucking listen to me until the end of the game and now look. Fuck you sloosh/dirk for rolling over. Want to see how a townie should play? Look at my fucking filter this game. Take some fucking notes. Don't roll over and be useless fucks that easily get lynched. Make cases, scumhunt. Be like me. Maybe cut out the rage. Maybe that's why you guys just roll over. It's impossible to reason and not rage with people who follow the Coag Guide to Mafia instead of the very good guide posted as a sticky. Fuck you Oats for apparently trolling every game as town and relying on your meta to get you by. I'll never play in a game with you again. Unlike marv you refused to recognize how bad you were in regards to my end of day 1 posting and instead ended up trolling me for half a night. Anyone else I'm mad at? Nope. Hats off to you BH for organizing that lynch on Rayn when I was gone. No eating a hat for you. Playing with you was a pleasure. | ||
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Is it so much to ask that you scum hunt? Neither of you has. I had to choose which of you I thought was more scummy and the weights fell on you Clarity. If HF is scum then good game to him, but horrible game to you. You had a million opportunities to convince me that HF was scum. You had all today to and the only explanation I can come up with is that you're once again hoping that HF is trolling so you're maintaining the buddy on him instead of swapping. There's no way, no fucking way town sits and takes it like that. Like, as town you know you're not scum. You should know that if you're town, and you should play accordingly. This entire game has felt like you didn't have that feeling. It's fucking LYLO and I'm the only one that made a case. Me, the guy who was working all day yesterday until FNM and then passout. I woke up this morning to what? Nothing. I made my case over the course of two whole days. I reread the entire thread and took notes, then compiled those into a case. What has HF done to deserve such trust in being townie from you that I haven't? META?!?! You fucking disgust me if you're town. I don't know whether the rage lost me the crown and BH will get it, but god damnit I put in the most effort of anyone this game. I hunted and you were the conclusion of that hunting. Instead of addressing the things I found you dismissed them. You asked for examples and when I found them you didn't bother to respond to them. If you're town this isn't on me. This is on you. If HF is scum then he got away with the trollsiest performance I've ever seen. Why? Because of you. It's not my fault, it's your fault. ##unvote ##vote: Clarity_nl | ||
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I saw marv and Oats misrepresent me night 1 and jumped on them because townies don't misrepresent things. No, they couldn't both be scum, but if you scum hunt and target those acting most scummy you will hit scum eventually. Turns out Oats was trolling and marv retracted what he said about me. So I had to reread the entire game. I did so, and came to new conclusions based upon what I read with a clear mind and new perspective on things. | ||
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On October 13 2013 07:26 Clarity_nl wrote: Yes. Scum doesn't troll in this situation ever. So shouldn't scum then therefor troll in this situation? Once again you rely on WIFOM. | ||
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On October 13 2013 07:30 Holyflare wrote: Why did you not actively try and stop both sloosh and Dirk lynches then? Look at my notes, Dirk could very realistically been scum. Sloosh was meh, no one would listen to me. I was screaming Oats and marv and no one would listen to me. All I want is for people to talk about my cases with me and not use meta as a defense for people. | ||
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On October 13 2013 07:32 Clarity_nl wrote: No. It's not WIFOM. If holyflare is scum he has it won. Trolling does nothing except make him possible lose. Lose-lose move, scum don't do it. My point was that it didn't make him scum, not that it made him town. Already confident he is town so... yeah And why is that? Because you're unwilling to put in any effort? | ||
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On October 13 2013 07:36 Holyflare wrote: Lots of people wanted oats dead, I hate his playstyle, it reminds me of playing with koshi :/ And yet I was the only one making cases on him and questioning his play. I'm the only one who has been transparent this game. I tell everyone how I'm thinking so people can see my thought process because that is pro town. When I talk I speak plainly. I answer people who speak to me, even if I rage. I scum hunt. You know what pisses me off? If you're town you're riding all my work to a town victory and you don't deserve it. If you're scum you're blatantly fucking with me and Clarity in the thread. What have you done this game HF? Where have you pushed anything? But then what has Clarity done? If Clarity were dead and marv was alive I would have written a case on you today. | ||
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On October 13 2013 07:38 Clarity_nl wrote: Because I think he's town and so do you? Well, not anymore apparently. You don't care which one of us gets lynched. The moment holy makes it "clear" he's lynching you over me you switch, rather than trying to convince him I'm scum. You kick and scream and life is unfair. You claim holy is clearly scum and then when holy switches back to me you switch again. Clarity, the fact that you can't see anything is what makes you scum this game. The fact that I've tried to move your vote and you won't budge is what makes you scum. The fact that you KNOW he is town is what makes you scum. The fact that you put so little effort into this game makes you scum. Guess who matched you in effort? Holyflare. You're both scummy as shit. His vote started the rayn lynch and yours slammed it home in desperation as fucking marv, the guy you sheeped all game noted. Funny how you've managed to sheep the guy all game and don't bring him up all day. Instead it's all HF is town, Risen is scum, trolling doesn't make someone scum. | ||
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On October 13 2013 07:44 Clarity_nl wrote: You tried to make me move by going HOLYFLARE IS SCUMMY CAUSE HES TROLLING KILL HIM. I explained why that doesnt make him scum. Then he switches back to me and suddenly everything is alright. No, everything is not alright. I've already congratulated him if he's scum. GG HF you beat potentially the worst mafia player at LYLO I've ever seen. You've beaten the guy who made it his goal in life as a town player to appear as scummy as possible. And now you haven't read my notes on HF, I see. Where is the town effort HF should have? I can't even use that as a point against him, because you've been just as useless this game. Know what it comes down to? His end of day 1 looks better than yours, you're 100% convinced he's town and I'm scum before the flip after all this trolling, you fished for night kills last night, and this was literally your only way to not get lynched. You couldn't defend yourself in spite of having 48 hours because you know you're scum. You can't make a case on me because you know I'm town. You can't move over to HF because in spite of his lack of effort this game you've latched yourself onto the 100% risen scum, HF town with no case to back it up already. | ||
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On October 13 2013 07:46 Holyflare wrote: Not sure if serious or not. I was pushing oats ALL OF THE NIGHT BEFORE HE DIED. The only reason rayn is dead is because he was my joint top scum read and i made it possible. I already voiced why I didn't like oats multiple times. The more i looked at it the more town he was though, scum hunting on you when everyone was afking the sloosh lynch etc etc. I know you've said you read the game so why don't you know that? You pushed Oats? Please. I actually dug through Oats filter, I pointed out scummy things. What did you do again? That's right. | ||
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On October 13 2013 07:49 Holyflare wrote: I also thought dirk and sloosh were scum and they just pretty much gave up. There was no need to put in that much effort in day 2 or 3. I can almost understand this, except how would you know for certainty they were scum? Even as town with someone I am lynching 100% I'm still looking for things other people are doing. Even with major scum read on Oats I had one on marv. Even with major read on marv I still looked into dirk. I have hunted this game, and you haven't. You've been extremely superficial, that's what I mean when I say you don't put in effort. You go scan a filter of someone else's game and go metareadlololol. Fuck meta, meta is SUPPORT. You build a case on someone and if there's supporting evidence from another game THEN you can bring it up. It isn't, this guy's meta matches his play here, scum. That's a cop out and you're bound to fuck up. | ||
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2) Me being busy isn't a scum tell, sorry. When I came back I was still busy and had to leave, but after reading and catching up I made a case on rayn. 3) I can't have more than one scum read? I can't evolve my reads as the game goes on? Why are you trying to make it seem like changing your mind is a scum thing to do? 4) I tunneled Oats and Marv because of their misrepresentation of me. I've already explained this. Scum misrepresent things in the hopes that a town player will pick it up and run with it 5) Last night? More like yesterday. I did it after marv admitted he was wrong. So I went back through the game with a cleared mind. 6) Why would I need to drop my scum read on you? Why can't I find more than one person scummy in spite of there only being one scum left. Yes, you're all varying shades of scum to me. I'm the only confirmed town to myself. Why did I keep finding people scummier? Because they kept doing scummy things. Oats was trolling, marv made his day 1 "too crazy to be scum" move and then proceeded to try and get something going on me based on a false premise so I kept pressure Oats and marv. 7) Blatantly false. Between the rayn case and now I've pushed Oats and marv and made a true case on Clarity. When you have scum reads who aren't up for lynch are you going to say, "Oh yeah you're not lynching my scum read but you're probably right lolol." What a bullshit point you're trying to make here. Kept making cases on people I knew wouldn't get lynched? And why is that? Why was I so certain people wouldn't get lynched after watching my lynch target day 1 get lynched? Another bullshit point. I didn't retract my pressure on anyone but marv. More misrepresentation of me. 8) So of the 3 lynches, me being behind 1 of them, which was I behind? So I should have sheeped all game like you, is what you're saying. No, that's bullshit. 9) I do explain what happened to my marv read. He dropped the misrepresentation of me and I actually reread the thread. 10) Effort but no aggression? Really? How can you even attempt to make this point about me. 11) So what you're saying is that as town you don't actually have a set meta other than "I sheep". Must be really hard to fake as scum. Have you been trying to find scum all game? As I point out in my case on you that just isn't the case. You have a pattern of repeatedly soft pushing people and waiting for someone else to come and grab on. 12) You refuse to clear yourself because you can't. I think that covers the case on me. | ||
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On October 13 2013 07:55 Clarity_nl wrote: Also I don't mean to take cheap shots (I totally mean to take cheap shots) but.... ? I'm home now. Was on the phone with my grandma helping her get groceries and it usually takes longer. You want me to give an update on my position whenever I move around? "I don't mean to nitpick, but here I am nitpicking don't find it scummy tehe" | ||
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On October 13 2013 08:07 Clarity_nl wrote: I didn't really post it to get you to respond to it. Just saying, I did make a case, since you said I didn't And no, you didn't pressure anyone. The way you've made your cases make it so no one listens to you. You know this, marv has even told you twice on day 1. You are also calling everything and anything scummy. Really though, you betrayed yourself clearly today, and since holy is rereading he'll figure it out. Your eagerness to get a lynch, any lynch, and win that beloved trophy. Nice. Totally refuted my response there buddy. Wait, you didn't, because you can't. To the bolded Isn't HF the one who initially pointed that out? Why are you trying to ride it? | ||
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On October 13 2013 08:08 Clarity_nl wrote: It usually takes two hours longer? Whatever, it doesn't really mean anything I was just curious if you were typing like a maniac from your phone which would be amusing No, usually I stay around for a sandwich and play games with my uncle Mack. I didn't today because I needed to get to a computer. I'm a horrible grandson. | ||
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Wrong. The difference between my phone posts and computer posts is swype. | ||
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On October 13 2013 07:33 Holyflare wrote: And now you mentioned about the title, it all makes sense why you'd put so much effort in a scum | ||
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On October 13 2013 08:11 Holyflare wrote: What I don't understand risen is why you made a case on rayn straight after returning? Just because he used meta and called you town? Other people also said things to that effect but they didn't get cases on them. I clearly just said I read up to where I was, then decided to make a case. It wasn't JUST him calling me town. It was that combined with an avoidance of sloosh in spite of the thread actively talking about sloosh around him. | ||
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On October 04 2013 08:50 Blazinghand wrote: RISEN IS OBVIOUS TOWN HES TRYING TO CONSOLIDATE TO AVOID A NOLYNCH COME ON GUYS Town players know they are town and when given the choice between them and not them they will vote not them. Clarity your insistence on praying for HF to change his mind is scummy. No, this isn't a no lynch situation, but it is a situation of "I'm not scum, HF is trolling the thread, clearly I should be trying to get not me lynched." | ||
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On October 13 2013 08:19 Holyflare wrote: Well that's where it makes 0 sense. If sloosh was his partner, sure he'd avoid talking about it. If sloosh was town ray would just talk about him. So how is it you don't want sloosh lynched the next day.. Surely he's rays scum partner?? Misrepresentation argument is bad because marv misread it which was obvious from what he was posting, just like you Misread BH's rng post but portrayed me and him as not RNGing. Surely? No. An avoidance of talking about someone doesn't mean that person is scum. It can be a factor, but it isn't open and shut in any way. | ||
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On October 13 2013 08:23 Holyflare wrote: He's now willing to vote me if you do... What? No. Not now, there's no point to swap now. Now it's just a desperate scum attempting a last second vote swap. If he had done it while you were trolling it would be a different story. Now it's almost identical to the rayn situation. A town Clarity would see the trolling and consider a move. Scum Clarity knows this is his only chance. | ||
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If HF's vote on me hadn't been so fuckin trollsy I would have tried. He came in without a case and was fucking with me on purpose, though. How do you reason with that? I made my case on you, I did my fuckin best. If he's going to troll there and you're not going to see his trolling as scummy, then that means you are scum who knows he's town. | ||
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On October 13 2013 08:27 Clarity_nl wrote: As I said early today. Risen gets away with a lot of stuff as scum. I could go back and point it all out, but it wouldn't make HIM scum, because he's crazy. Plus his lylo play has been most telling anyway, and should convince you A town Clarity thinks my LYLO play today is worse than HF's, I don't buy it. | ||
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On October 13 2013 08:30 Clarity_nl wrote: That's because you've said all game that trolling equals scummy, when you are simply wrong. Besides, as holy has pointed out he was fishing for reactions. Trolling is anti-town. End of story. There are other ways to get responses. You know what else would have gotten a response? HF could have made a bad case on me and measured my response. Trolling is anti-town. The trolling from his anti-town may, in the end, work out, but that doesn't justify it. Everyone on TL acts like the ends justify the means, they don't. In the short term it may work out, but in the long run if HF is town I hope he stops that shit. It isn't pro-town, and saying it is is just wrong and you buddying him. | ||
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On October 13 2013 08:32 Clarity_nl wrote: Really, the vote swap today is all you need to see. Risen calling himself crazy a bunch during the game should also be very telling about how much he didnt want people to listen to him. Never backing up his cases, or interacting with people that discuss his cases, is also telling. I really dunno what else to tell you. He's scum, you're either gonna see it or you're not. 1) That vote swap is in my favor and not in yours. The fact that you're pretending not the see it is scummy. 2) Find me examples, please, I'm tired of hearing this. I expect my cases to be read and discussed or I wouldn't make them. 3) I do back up my cases. Day 1 I was extremely busy, and that's on me, but that's literally all you have and you keep repeating it hoping it will come true and it's not. I interact with anyone who discusses my cases instead of just shouting them down as stupid. You misrepresenting what I do is very telling. Just look at my case, it's almost all Clarity does is misrepresent things in the game. | ||
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On October 13 2013 08:36 Clarity_nl wrote: Yes, it's anti-town. But that doesn't make it scummy. Sorry. Why are you still arguing that holy is playing bad/scummily when you think I'm scum?? Because if he does end up being scum he needs to know that this wasn't his win it was your loss, and you need to understand how bad you are. | ||
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On October 13 2013 08:39 Clarity_nl wrote: He's not scum, you are. I'm not sorry about that one, though. The fact that you are still trying to convince me holy is scum while having your vote on me is ridiculous. You're misunderstanding or trying to misrepresent me again, I honestly don't know which one it is at this point. I always talk to my scum reads because I could be wrong. Your refusal to even consider a scum HF is scummy. I'm pointing that out in every single one of my posts. I'm pointing out what HF did that was scummy, and pointing out how you somehow magically don't find it scummy. That is more scummy. | ||
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On October 13 2013 08:41 Clarity_nl wrote: If I were misrepresenting things all game, as either alignment, I wouldn't have made it to lylo. Anyway, I'll answer questions you ask holy, but am not gonna post other than that. Getting tired of Risen. Really? Because I don't think that's true. People simply sheeped the day 1 cases that were there the entire game instead of actually look into people until I did it. I am the one who went digging and progressed the game. So I DO see how you could make it to LYLO as scum misrepresenting things. | ||
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On October 13 2013 08:43 Holyflare wrote: My trolling was to get a reaction, the game rests on my vote. I got my reaction and made my vote. There is nothing more towny than that. I'm saying you needlessly pissed me off. You didn't need to troll there and I almost rage quit the game which would have allowed a Clarity victory (if he's scum). You could have simply made a breadcrumb that you would make a bad case and then make the case to see my response. Or you could have breadcrumbed that you were going to troll, but you didn't. Simply doing things like that isn't pro-town. | ||
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On October 13 2013 08:47 Clarity_nl wrote: Risen switching between sure I'm scum and doubting is hilarious. Yet talking to me he's "raging" and talking to you (holy) he's trying to convince you. Doubt - that thing town players have when they don't have perfect information. Complete confidence - that thing scum players have when they know the alignment of other player in the game. And I'm the one who made the case on you. Marv agreed with not just my read on you, but HF's meta read as well. HF was the only one you could bring in today who had waffled on your alignment during the night. | ||
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On October 13 2013 08:58 Clarity_nl wrote: Risen isn't even around. You should change instead, still have time. ... | ||
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On October 13 2013 08:59 Holyflare wrote: I like winning So do I. | ||
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On October 13 2013 09:02 Clarity_nl wrote: I would have said the same had we lynched risen, but I have the decency to not bring it up during the game My problem with being lynched was that you two were playing so poorly. If you would have put some effort in and made an actual case I wouldn't have gotten mad. Thank you for hosting iamp! | ||
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On October 13 2013 09:35 Holyflare wrote: Thing is you only rage in scum games and i knew that... But didn't pay attention either Dude... I rage in town games, too. To catch me as scum literally all you had to do was read my filter. I had too much information and slipped up when I was high as fuck on cold medicine D3 when dealing with Dirk. I even called myself out in QT as being dead. Then no one lynched me for it. Cmon mannnnnn | ||
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On October 13 2013 09:45 Aquanim wrote: Are you quite done patting yourself on the back Risen? I think so, gotta stay in character for at least the initial post game  | ||
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On October 10 2013 01:46 Risen wrote: HF why are you so certain I'm town? And assuming Dirk is lynched today, who are you going to lynch tomorrow? And I'm not mad marv, I'm just tired. Kill anyone who ever makes a post like this. | ||
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On October 13 2013 10:00 VayneAuthority wrote: it was blatantly obvious that risen was mafia btw lol, could tell from day 1. read TL mafia polls... Yeah I was really happy no one brought that up, though lynching me for trying in a game is downright silly :< | ||
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 I had wayyyyyy too much fun with that hahaha. | ||
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On October 13 2013 12:00 Blazinghand wrote: We all made mistakes but I was a confirmed townie who had a scumread on both Risen and Rayn D1, and I abandoned the Risen scumread over the course of N1 due to overthinking. If I just didn't post during N1 other than to say "My D1 reads are correct" I'd have left much better guidance for the town. As the guy who was by far the best town player it was my responsibility not to fuck up and I did. Yup, no matter what you were a n1 NK. If you look at QT I even flat out say HF and BH are the first kills tonight. | ||
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On October 14 2013 00:56 Holyflare wrote: Gotta play for the fans. Also, the lying/you wanting to quit tl at the end is the only reason that i was going to vote you again. This makes me happy. | ||
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On October 14 2013 02:28 Oatsmaster wrote: Risen, have you gone THIS crazy in a previous scum game? Nope. On October 14 2013 02:43 Oatsmaster wrote: Clarity, Risen went all in for this win. Like he can never do ANYTHING again that makes him definitively town. Its like grush using STARSENSES when he rolls scum. I'm totally ok with people lynching based on my play instead of meta. It's what should have happened, but didn't because TL towns subscribe to the pants on head style of mafia play instead of following the very good stickied guide to scumhunting. On October 14 2013 02:53 Xatalos wrote: This is a good point. Risen did (ab)use his reputation to give him an advantage, but it's not like he can freely do that again. Skilled players will look at him a lot more closely now. So you shouldn't feel too sad, Clarity  And that's all I ever wanted. It was my Xanatos-Gambit. | ||
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On October 14 2013 03:52 Clarity_nl wrote: Risen, whenever you attacked a townie they got defended with meta and all those defenses were correct. The reason you acted the way you did this game is because of meta. If we looked objectively at your play without meta every game you'd always get lynched. Then I guess you should start lynching me. | ||
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On October 14 2013 04:02 Oatsmaster wrote: What? Im saying that if we looked at this game in a vacuum using the scumhunting tips to find scum, Risen would not get lynched AT ALL. Huh? I have to disagree. There are various point in my posting where I have too much knowledge for my own good. I also don't push anything d1. If you disregard my meta of dropping cases b/c pressure is put on me and I rage quit then I get lynched. | ||
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On October 14 2013 04:26 Clarity_nl wrote: But oats, that's anti-town and therefore scummy!!!! So start lynching bad towns who will hold you down in the endgame anyways? Lynch them til they learn? Make TL Mafia a better place in the future? | ||
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On October 14 2013 05:31 Oatsmaster wrote: Risen, what do you mean by 'better place'? Do you want high quality mafia play? Or what? Because playing like you have played is not gonna help people improve. Yup, higher quality. Hopefully people see what I've managed to get away with this game under the guise of meta and too stupid/too crazy to be scum and start going back to basics. | ||
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Why not? | ||
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Edit: Displeased at losing, not at losing it over voice. The champion should be proficient at ALL styles of mafia play. I'll have my crown back from rayn soon enough | ||
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