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On October 03 2013 21:54 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2013 21:50 Holyflare wrote:On October 03 2013 21:49 raynpelikoneet wrote:On October 03 2013 21:48 Holyflare wrote:On October 03 2013 21:46 raynpelikoneet wrote:On October 03 2013 21:45 Holyflare wrote:
Also, as it progressed I kept it on oats because his play was tunneled and did not bother with questioning other people. So what did you expect Oats to do when people in thread were you, BH and him (and to some extent Risen)? How was his play tunneled? Have you read this shit? I've made at least 1-2 cases on oats that explained all this. You aren't helping my view of you. Your cases were bad. Now, again, how was Oats' play tunneled and what he should have done instead of trying to figure out people's alignment that were actually posting at that time? Then you've read jack shit. On October 02 2013 14:05 Holyflare wrote:
Stop posting long posts??? It's called analysis of a player. The fact that even after I've posted that you aren't asking me anything, aren't trying to discover whether I am in fact town or not and aren't trying to decipher other peoples motives is just rubbing me the wrong way. It's easy to jump on a player because he played the noob card but there are 2 scum in this game not just one. If i were to be lynched and did indeed flip town then wouldn't you regret not pressuring other people on why they think i'm a sure fire scum? On October 02 2013 14:08 Holyflare wrote:
The fact you can't just click my profile (you can even see my post count??) and see that I've only been in newbie games is just more testament to your alignment. Shouldn't you be discerning these answers before you know that "He's surely scum".? My case before all these things said things similar to all this. Please don't insult things you haven't been bothered to actually read. Show nested quote +On October 02 2013 14:05 Holyflare wrote:
Stop posting long posts??? It's called analysis of a player. The fact that even after I've posted that you aren't asking me anything, aren't trying to discover whether I am in fact town or not and aren't trying to decipher other peoples motives is just rubbing me the wrong way. It's easy to jump on a player because he played the noob card but there are 2 scum in this game not just one. If i were to be lynched and did indeed flip town then wouldn't you regret not pressuring other people on why they think i'm a sure fire scum? Oats saying "stop posting long posts" is not alignment indicative. Oats gave his thoughts on you/BH/Risen during the rng shit. So the rest of your post is incorrect. There was nothing else to figure out at that time. Show nested quote +On October 02 2013 14:08 Holyflare wrote:
The fact you can't just click my profile (you can even see my post count??) and see that I've only been in newbie games is just more testament to your alignment. Shouldn't you be discerning these answers before you know that "He's surely scum".? If you do something scummy people think you are scum. What's wrong with that regardless if you are noob or not?
My post explains why I don't think oats is scummy anymore, my vote isn't even on him anymore. There are far more scummy people to look at. Why are we still talking about oats?
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On October 03 2013 21:58 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2013 21:56 Holyflare wrote:On October 03 2013 21:54 raynpelikoneet wrote:On October 03 2013 21:50 Holyflare wrote:On October 03 2013 21:49 raynpelikoneet wrote:On October 03 2013 21:48 Holyflare wrote:On October 03 2013 21:46 raynpelikoneet wrote:On October 03 2013 21:45 Holyflare wrote:
Also, as it progressed I kept it on oats because his play was tunneled and did not bother with questioning other people. So what did you expect Oats to do when people in thread were you, BH and him (and to some extent Risen)? How was his play tunneled? Have you read this shit? I've made at least 1-2 cases on oats that explained all this. You aren't helping my view of you. Your cases were bad. Now, again, how was Oats' play tunneled and what he should have done instead of trying to figure out people's alignment that were actually posting at that time? Then you've read jack shit. On October 02 2013 14:05 Holyflare wrote:
Stop posting long posts??? It's called analysis of a player. The fact that even after I've posted that you aren't asking me anything, aren't trying to discover whether I am in fact town or not and aren't trying to decipher other peoples motives is just rubbing me the wrong way. It's easy to jump on a player because he played the noob card but there are 2 scum in this game not just one. If i were to be lynched and did indeed flip town then wouldn't you regret not pressuring other people on why they think i'm a sure fire scum? On October 02 2013 14:08 Holyflare wrote:
The fact you can't just click my profile (you can even see my post count??) and see that I've only been in newbie games is just more testament to your alignment. Shouldn't you be discerning these answers before you know that "He's surely scum".? My case before all these things said things similar to all this. Please don't insult things you haven't been bothered to actually read. On October 02 2013 14:05 Holyflare wrote:
Stop posting long posts??? It's called analysis of a player. The fact that even after I've posted that you aren't asking me anything, aren't trying to discover whether I am in fact town or not and aren't trying to decipher other peoples motives is just rubbing me the wrong way. It's easy to jump on a player because he played the noob card but there are 2 scum in this game not just one. If i were to be lynched and did indeed flip town then wouldn't you regret not pressuring other people on why they think i'm a sure fire scum? Oats saying "stop posting long posts" is not alignment indicative. Oats gave his thoughts on you/BH/Risen during the rng shit. So the rest of your post is incorrect. There was nothing else to figure out at that time. On October 02 2013 14:08 Holyflare wrote:
The fact you can't just click my profile (you can even see my post count??) and see that I've only been in newbie games is just more testament to your alignment. Shouldn't you be discerning these answers before you know that "He's surely scum".? If you do something scummy people think you are scum. What's wrong with that regardless if you are noob or not? My post explains why I don't think oats is scummy anymore, my vote isn't even on him anymore. There are far more scummy people to look at. Why are we still talking about oats? lol. Because you voted for him with shitty reasons. And because you defended your shitty cases on him. I am not talking about Oats here, i am talking about you. Why are you turning this into "talking about Oats" when it's clearly not what it is?
I posted something that people jumped on, I explained why, no matter how I explained things he didn't post anything other than "i know he's scum", what's more to add, this was all in the first few hours of the game. So much has happened since then. There are people on your list that are scummy for things they have done that you are not discussing and you are picking up on something that happened in the first 6 hours.
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On October 03 2013 22:22 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Hey Holyflare where did you go?
Why do you feel like i am talking about Oats when i am clearly not?
Also do you think your case on him was good or not?
Was making lunch. Talking about me talking about oats is what I'm implying. If only me, bh, risen and oats were talking at the start of the game and a person says that you are scum no matter what you say then they are stifling the discussion so yes, the points I made make sense and that is why I kept my vote on him further. He later dropped it and pursued other avenues of thought and thus, like I said, i removed my vote on him.
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I literally just made a long post about why there are better lynch candidates what are you getting at here?? I never said he was a towny read but he sure isn't the most scummy
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On October 03 2013 23:21 marvellosity wrote:
Will you talk about that stuff with me, Holy?
Of course.
Let me address some glaringly silly things first.
This: + Show Spoiler +On October 03 2013 23:07 raynpelikoneet wrote:Okay so, here is what i am trying to say. This is what Holyflare says about his unvoting Oats: Show nested quote +On October 03 2013 21:38 Holyflare wrote:.... OatsHe starts out with his vote on me, convinced I am scum etc etc. He has the whole debacle with BH in which nothing really happens, he defend the fact that his vote is still on me, however, does not try and question it or contemplate that anyone else could be scum. I attribute this to the fact that it was early on in the game and there was no total alternative but it still seemed a bit tunnely to me (Which he actually addressed later on when he unvoted). + Show Spoiler +On October 02 2013 14:01 Oatsmaster wrote:All those words. That dont mean anything. Show nested quote +it's the top scum play to stifle discussion. With his sure stance on me being scum and despite me resonding why I posted what I did is it not he who is in fact stifling the discussion?
I meant saying that someone is stifling discussion is what scum always like to do. Show nested quote +The fact that you say everyone else agrees with you in this thread is just testament to the fact that you have put no effort or thought into your stance and are just going with the flow to follow up for an 'easy' lynch. Everyone else thinks that you are scummy. Therefore I cant do anything more to convince people at this point of time. COME ON HOLYFLARE. STOP POSTING LONG POSTS. NOT GOOD. You and BH are probably not on the same scumteam but I have a way more sure read on you than on BH. BH, is Holyflare a noob or not? He tells me to stop posting long posts, and that the points had no merit but then unvoted me after he re-read the next day. Which I also like about him. He's not afraid to admit that he was wrong and tunnel visioned. He's posted a lot of bs about how people can be scum if someone else is scum which seemed a bit like he was foreshadowing future events ie. + Show Spoiler +On October 02 2013 23:59 Oatsmaster wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2013 23:50 Clarity_nl wrote:On October 02 2013 23:19 Oatsmaster wrote:Cause its hard to see tiny little Vote FOR DUDES.  Marv you scum? Do you think he is? Hmm. Ok so another reason why I think HF is town. If marv is scum with him, then Marv wont call him town. If marv is town, marv is probably right. So both ways, HF is town I think. I think that marv is null, he hasnt shown much of anything either way. I think Oats is making points about people that were original (ie. risen, although they work both ways) and he has stuck to Dirkzor, which I think was good seeing as people seemingly dismissed everything about him. I honestly think a lynch on oats would be a bad thing at this current point in time. I know my vote was/is on him but that was because I had been called out urgently yesterday and I apologise. Later on he says he unvoted Oats because of his detunnel and because it is reasonable. Okay, this is cool and everything, except for: Show nested quote +On October 02 2013 22:56 Oatsmaster wrote:
I read/detunneled.
##vote Dirkzor
also sheeping marv is cool.
Show nested quote +On October 03 2013 01:18 Holyflare wrote:.... As for oats, On October 02 2013 23:59 Oatsmaster wrote:On October 02 2013 23:50 Clarity_nl wrote:On October 02 2013 23:19 Oatsmaster wrote:Cause its hard to see tiny little Vote FOR DUDES. Marv you scum? Do you think he is? Hmm. Ok so another reason why I think HF is town. If marv is scum with him, then Marv wont call him town. If marv is town, marv is probably right. So both ways, HF is town I think. I think that marv is null, he hasnt shown much of anything either way. That's ridiculous wifom and adds nothing to the entire topic. I don't like it one bit. Especially coupled with, On October 02 2013 22:56 Oatsmaster wrote:
I read/detunneled.
##vote Dirkzor
also sheeping marv is cool.
+ Show Spoiler +On October 02 2013 13:35 Oatsmaster wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2013 13:33 Blazinghand wrote:On October 02 2013 13:29 Oatsmaster wrote:On October 02 2013 13:28 Blazinghand wrote:On October 02 2013 13:26 Oatsmaster wrote:On October 02 2013 13:23 Blazinghand wrote:On October 02 2013 13:20 Oatsmaster wrote:On October 02 2013 13:17 Blazinghand wrote:On October 02 2013 13:16 Oatsmaster wrote:On October 02 2013 13:15 Blazinghand wrote:
[quote]
What's your read on Risen? null ~~ town Why? Cause he doesnt hop on the RNG lynch wagon. And cause he called Holyflare scum. I personally do not find either of these reasons compelling. A decision to hop or not hop on the RNG lynch wagon is dependent on personal ideas about how useful RNG is, and whether or not it paints someone as scummy depends on their reasoning and history, not the simple fact that they did or did not hop on. Calling holyflare scum, likewise, is not in and of itself a good strat. I too don't like holyflare's play, but you think I am scum, and it is almost certainly because of my interactions with holyflare. Instead of calling him a newb card player and voting him, as risen did, without serious explanation and an attempt to help him, I actually interacted with him seriously. playing the newb card is also something newbies do. the optimal response is mine, not risen's. Mine determines holyflare's alignment. Risen did not attempt to suss out what was up with holyflare. he laid some smackdown, but hasn't seriously followed it up. Where is he in convincing me to vote holyflare as I interact with holyflare? After all, he thinks holyflare is scum, no? I find risen scummy for that reason. I think you're scum for pulling the RNG bullshit again. I didnt attempt to find out what was up with holyflare, I laid some smackdown! So am I scum for that too? Holyflare is scum because he instantly jumps on a policy and then writes a whole bunch of stuff saying he is a noob. Without actually saying those words. Yes, that's a scummy thing you did. Are you claiming it's not scummy? Your goal, especially in a small newbie like this, should be to interact and find out more about him, unless you're so clearly sure he's scum that you're done with him. Im very clearly sure he's scum. Also, you know there are pressure votes? And I can change my vote at any time? So its not like once I vote for him, I cant change my mind. So yeah, I dunno why you are calling me and Risen scum because we have scumreads we are willing to vote on. Why isnt Holyflare interacting with me if he called me scum then? I don't see how your vote being a pressure vote means that you can't write a case, try to convince people, or hell, try to interact with the guy you're supposedly pressuring. Of course you can change your mind! The fact that you and Risen are scummy (and i'm not 100% sure that either of you are scum, of course) isn't that you vote, it's HOW you vote. Do you understand this? On October 02 2013 13:31 Oatsmaster wrote:
Since when does BH play self righteous dick?
As any alignment?
So you thing this is... null? or are you just whining. I dont understand how you equate having a extreme stance on someone from their first post = scummy. Both me and Risen explained reasons to think that Holyflare is scum and you seem to think that Holyflare is scummy too. WHAT THE FUCK IS THERE TO CONVINCE YOU ABOUT ?? ? ? ?? ? I dont know if you are bad or if you are scum BH. Dirkzor had "an extreme stance on a first post" but it's ok to vote him now for it? Especially as you now say: On October 03 2013 00:23 Oatsmaster wrote:
Man both Marv and Clarity are saying the exact same things. If you agree with Marv on his vote, why is it such a factor to you that someone else agrees with it so openly? At least he has put forth reasoning into his voting, even if it is similar to marvs. Yours just straight up changed until you were pressured to post why you switched and even then you haven't told us why you are voting dirk? This can't be a reason for his unvote, because he does not unvote before now. He even quotes Oats' post where Oats "detunnels", and does not say it's good or anything. He only says it later on, when the thread sentiment is not in favor of lynching Oats anymore! Also his reasons for voting for Oats are bad in the first place. ##Unvote:
##Vote: Holyflare
This is 100% sentiment to the fact that you have not read the thread or where posts are located in the thread instead you have just confirmation biased your way into a vote. You quote the post where I mention oats vote on dirkzor. I in no way have implied that I did not like "oh i've de-tunneled" in fact, the spoiler underneath quotes the post that I was referencing that vote on dirkzor on. It was in reference to the point that oats made about people with an aggressive first post vote shouldn't be voted on but then he voted on Dirk anyway. I found this hypocrtical. However, within the next post Oats had already explained himself.
I found oats to be scummy but on further analysis when I returned (I can't be here all the time???) I re-read peoples filters and this that is where the big post is. If you are getting at me for not keeping my vote on oats, I don't know why, he is CLEARLY the least scummy out of the ones that people have been referencing and not worthy of a vote IMO today. My post while big, is an attempt to get people to focus on the things that matter.
You say:
On October 03 2013 22:03 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2013 22:01 marvellosity wrote:
rayn, why are you going after Holy now when you've shown no incliniation to go after him before he came back to the thread?
I don't understand. Because i tend to interact with people who are in thread. I'm impatient to wait for answers for hours, i have a train of thought and i want to disclose it with quick back and forth discussion. That's what i always do.
but I just made a post on voting and who people should vote for which you are either deflecting from for some reason or have other ideas. You don't need to wait for people to discuss points that people have brought up. Discussion is discussion which leads to questions which lead to answers. If you don't discuss other points you're left with a 1 track point of discussion which in the end may lead to nothing.
As for the question I have not answered, which one are you implying?? I've been answering what you have asked there is nothing wishy-washy about it.
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Let me lay this out really simply for you in case you still don't get it:
1. Started with RNG
2. Developed concerns that Oats was not willing to discuss anything.
3. Oats dropped his case on me after he said he was tunelling/like what I posted.
4. Addresses my concerns but still seems a little fishy - more of a null read but still one of the scummy people
5. Analyse rest of people - Oats is no longer most scummy
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Now, if you can't get your head around that I'd REALLY like to discuss actual people who may be scum!?
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On October 04 2013 00:03 Clarity_nl wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2013 00:02 Holyflare wrote:
Now, if you can't get your head around that I'd REALLY like to discuss actual people who may be scum!? Do you have a read on rayn after this push on you?
Yes, he's wasted 7 pages on me discussing a vote on oats instead of addressing what other people have been talking about. I make a post and he deviates to asking me about the early game. Why? I'm not sure. He starts off by not saying anything and then contrary to his previous game cases he has made a post that lists his thoughts on people rather than actual cases. His case he made on me was indicative of someone who did not read around the posts he was making a case on and has deflected from discussion that I think would have been more appropriate especially concerning the thread sentiment at the moment.
Scummy? I'm not sure. Confirmation biased. Yes.
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He also mentioned in his post on everyone that:
HolyFlare: I don't like his vote still being on Oats. Afaik i understand it's because of RNG, which is not in fact rng for him. Other than that he has made some good observations, then nothing.
He calls my observations good but in the past few pages has been saying they were terrible.
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On October 04 2013 00:08 marvellosity wrote:
Holy, why is what i posted up there wrong? I need you just to clear it up for me.
You seemed to think his unvote post at the time was bad, later you thought it was ok? is that not the case or what?
Where did I say his unvote was bad, I've checked my filter but can't really see it. Either way, upon rereading ouats I saw things like
On October 02 2013 23:03 Oatsmaster wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2013 22:58 Clarity_nl wrote:On October 02 2013 22:56 Oatsmaster wrote:
I read/detunneled.
On October 02 2013 22:56 Oatsmaster wrote:
Why am I scummy clarity? Contradiction. What? Marv, I liked his posts after I left, and thought from the perspective of not a cynical old fart and thought that HF is probably town. However, if he doesnt convince people to vote for me or convince dudes to vote for someone else, then THE PRESSURE IS ON BABY!
and was like - oh, he's actually willing to pay attention now, and he was right about the pressuring people etc.
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I can't read past 10 pages of your posts so I can't read it all so I just went on posts by BH who seemed to know. Either way, it's impossible for us to know whether you are capable of posting or not unless you specifically state that?? Also, my points still stand, we're not on the topic of finding actual scum STILL.
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On October 04 2013 00:20 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2013 00:17 Holyflare wrote:On October 04 2013 00:08 marvellosity wrote:
Holy, why is what i posted up there wrong? I need you just to clear it up for me.
You seemed to think his unvote post at the time was bad, later you thought it was ok? is that not the case or what? Where did I say his unvote was bad, I've checked my filter but can't really see it. Either way, upon rereading ouats I saw things like On October 02 2013 23:03 Oatsmaster wrote:On October 02 2013 22:58 Clarity_nl wrote:On October 02 2013 22:56 Oatsmaster wrote:
I read/detunneled.
On October 02 2013 22:56 Oatsmaster wrote:
Why am I scummy clarity? Contradiction. What? Marv, I liked his posts after I left, and thought from the perspective of not a cynical old fart and thought that HF is probably town. However, if he doesnt convince people to vote for me or convince dudes to vote for someone else, then THE PRESSURE IS ON BABY! and was like - oh, he's actually willing to pay attention now, and he was right about the pressuring people etc. Does this post: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=430498¤tpage=15#297 - not suggest you thought his unvote was bad? What am I missing?
I only ask why sloosh liked his reasoning?
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No no, I think you're misreading, I said especially with - the vote dirkzor bit and the bit in the spoiler underneath.
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On October 04 2013 00:28 marvellosity wrote:
Right, so the thing you didn't like was the random sheep on to Dirkzor, ya?
yes, especially as he pointed out clarity for sheeping
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On October 04 2013 00:29 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2013 00:29 Holyflare wrote:On October 04 2013 00:28 marvellosity wrote:
Right, so the thing you didn't like was the random sheep on to Dirkzor, ya? yes, especially as he pointed out clarity for sheeping Alright bingo! Can you see why I was having difficulties? lol. That makes sense.
I can. Can we get back to talking about scum now?????
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I think Dirkzor is easy lynch bait compared to say, sloosh who appears to be a bit too clairvoyant for my taste.
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He's saying that you were posting and were active, but contributed nothing of proper value. When you did contribute something large it was a list.
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BH you haven't addressed the other points about sloosh, yes he may make a reasonable step to a clarity lynch but if he did why has he informed none of us about it. I can't see how the rest of his posts can be considered town like either, have you played a game with him where he is scum? He seems way too conveniently informed and I'm surprised you aren't expanding your views on this.
As for rayn saying that his vote is up to marv, wtf? Why would you even do that. Your vote is your own just because someone is acting the most town like doesn't mean you should follow what they vote, this is a bit dodgy if you ask me.
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I did in my post which has been buried by the whole rayn/me thing..
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Besides that it just seemed odd for the guy that was so opinionated coming out of nowhere throwing out accusations and then voting aggressively to then want to sheep a vote
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