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![[image loading]](http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n99/chuiu/TLmafia_new.png)
Umasi and cakepie are helping me co-host this game. Any questions can be directed towards them or myself..
I highly recommend using the coaches for advice during the game! Don't be afraid to contact them!
Newbie Mini Mafia XLVIII
+ Show Spoiler [Day/Nightposts] +
Introduction:
Mafia is an educated guessing game of epic proportions. The objective of the game is to lynch or kill all mafia members before they outnumber the rest of the town. It's much like a game of poker because mafia members are also part of the town during the day and may manipulate the vote to their liking. If the mafia at any time outnumber or equal the townspeople, they win. The town's goal is to lynch all the members of the mafia.
The game is typically very active, so the thread will get big quickly. However, it is essential to read the thread to play the game. If you do not have the time or patience to read the whole thread, do not play. I will not compensate for ignorance.
Rules:
Cheating:
Cheating includes (but is not limited to):
1. Posting after death. You may have one polite goodbye post, but it may not contain any potentially game-changing information.
2. Ruining the game by doing something like hand out your mafia's member list to the town.
3. Logging on to someone else's account to get their role or looking over someone's shoulder to get their role.
4. Comparing role PM times to determine roles.
5. Posting screenshots of your inbox.
6. Posting or sharing any PM you receive from a host.
7. Getting yourself modkilled to help your team. Your non-majority-decided death may not be used as a bargaining chip.
8. Signing up more than once using smurf accounts.
9. Betting items outside of the game in exchange for in-game benefits.
10. Sharing accounts with other players unless cleared by the host in advance. Otherwise, only you may post on your account.
Cheating is not tolerated here. The punishment will be severe.
Posting:
Mod Font:
This is mod font. It is reserved for moderators. Please do not use it.
Question Font:
This is question font. Use it to ask the moderators questions about the rules. Please do us a favor and read the rules before you ask anything.
Activity:
You must post in this thread once per day/night cycle and vote every day while you are alive. If you fail to do so, you will be modkilled. BE ACTIVE OR FACE MY ETERNAL WRATH!
Smurfs:
No smurfs in here. This is a newbie game!
Spam:
Spam is not tolerated, nor is any off-topic material. Do not discuss Proleague here. Do not talk about Starcraft II here. Play Mafia here. This also means you should condense your posts when possible. 15 one-liners in 30 minutes is unacceptable.
Encryption:
Don't do it.
Editing:
Editing is not allowed for any reason. Editing will result in a warning. After that, you will be modkilled. This is the one part of the site where it is okay to be double posting, even triple-posting. While I ask for everybody to post as concisely as possible, post again using the acronym (EBWOP: Edit by way of posting) if you want to clarify/correct something you just posted.
Inappropriate posts:
If you want to post something insulting or inappropriate and know the TL mods would have a problem with it elsewhere, don't post it here. If you do, a host will warn you or modkill you and request that you be banned from future games. The hosts have the final say on what is inappropriate. If you do not like how someone is talking to you, please PM a host, Flamewheel, or Mig before involving the TL staff. If you are unsatisfied with how the situation is resolved, then you can appeal to the TL staff normally.
Reporting posts:
The report button is a nice feature for regular TL, but not for this forum. We prefer to deal with things in house if possible to avoid confusion among the TL staff. If you have a problem with how someone is posting, talk to the host, co-host, Flamewheel, or Mig before using your report button. Please do not use your report button for anything other than inappropriate posts which you feel are not being dealt with adequately.
Ban discussions:
Please wait until this game is over to talk about modkills and bans resulting from this game.
Play to win.
This means you play your best to help your team win while you are alive and in the game. However, this does not mean that you should try to win by being a jerk to the other players so they all want to quit playing.
This also means that you cannot leave the game without a good reason without a ban. These situations will be dealt with on a case by case basis. PM me or the co-hosts if you need to leave the game.
You have been warned.
Voting rules:
This game uses Plurality Lynch. The person with the most votes at the end of the day will be lynched.
1. Voting is done in this thread.. Please keep votes there, and only vote there. Do not PM me your vote.
2. Please vote in the following format: ##Vote: ShiaoPi. Votes not done in the correct fashion will not be counted. I or my co-hosts will update vote counts whenever we get the chance.
2.5 If you change your vote, please ##Unvote before posting another vote (can be done in the same post).
3. No conditional voting.
4. You may vote for yourself. You may not vote for anyone dead or outside the game.
5. In the event of a tie the person with the most votes first wins (or loses).
6. Voting is mandatory. You may NOT abstain.
Signups:
This game is open to players with 3 or fewer games on TL Mafia. Signups will remain open until the game is full. If you have played more but a long time ago, I might accept. Type /in if you want to play.
Game-specific rules:
Modkills:
This game follows the TL Mafia Ban List. If you are modkilled, your punishment will go beyond being eliminated from this game. Please refer to it for questions about your punishment. If you want to use this game to sit out your ban, please PM Flamewheel or post in the Ban List.
Replacements
This game uses replacements. Replacements will be made until Day 3. If a player is modkilled, they will be replaced by a player on the replacement list if possible. Type /replace if you want to be put on the replacement list. Replacements have to fulfill the same criteria as people who want to play (aka 3 games or fewer on TL Mafia).
Clues:
There are no clues.
PMs
PMs are not allowed in this game. No out-of-thread communication of any sort is allowed unless cleared by the hosts. Scum will be provided a QT to communicate in, as will Masons, Hydras or shadowing players.
Time Cycle:
This game will follow a 24 hour night/48 hour day-cycle. In case I am not able to post around deadline, any votes after the 48 hour mark will not count and the game will be put on halt until the night post is up. Currently the deadline is 22:00 GMT (+00:00), but that is subject to change. Actions/votes will be accepted up to and including the posted time, but not after.
Credits:
This post shamefully stolen from NMM XLVII
Thanks to pretty much every TL mafia player/host/mod/etc.
On February 20 2013 21:59 Acrofales wrote:Newbie-specific stuff - It's already in the rules, but remember, no editing. If you feel you must correct your post, please make a second post to clarify your statements. You may put EBWOP ("Edit by way of post," a handy acronym invented by semioldguy) at the beginning of your post to indicate that you are clearing up a point you made. If your EBWOP post is several posts after your original, please quote your original post in your EBWOP post for the sake of clarity.
- Only sign up if you know you will have the time available to properly play the game. It is essential that players remain active in a newbie game, so only /in if you are able to play to your fullest.
- If there is any sort of issue, you are unsure about some mechanic, or you are just wondering if your devilish scheme is even allowed, feel free to PM me, or ask in-thread with green text. Don't feel shy; these games are meant to be a place to learn and be open.
- Behave as gentlemen (or ladies). Things get heated here, but personal attacks will not be acceptable, and will be dealt with accordingly. Remember, this is a game; have fun and happy scumhunting!
- Please do not talk about any ongoing games either in-game or pre-game. This can affect other games and is unacceptable. Please do not refer to outside-of- thread activity of players in this thread.
- If you receive coaching, don't tell town about it.
- glhf!
Useful Guides
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Setup Information:
This set-up is based off of the C9++ setup. It will be a semi-open set-up meaning that while all of the roles possible will be displayed, the amount of each role will be hidden.
Town Win Condition: Eliminate all of the anti-town players.
Mafia Win Condition: Eliminate all of the Town players or reach a scenario where nothing can stop this.
Possible Roles:
Vanilla Townie
+ Show Spoiler +Welcome, [Player Name], you are a Vanilla Townie.
Abilities:
Your weapon is your vote, you have no night actions.
Win condition:
You win when all threats to the town have been eliminated and there is at least one town player alive.
Town Cop
+ Show Spoiler +Welcome, [Player Name], you are a Town Cop.
Abilities:
Each night phase, you may investigate one player in the game by PM'ing the mod. You will get results back in the form of Town, Antitown or No Result.
Win condition:
You win when all threats to the town have been eliminated and there is at least one town player alive.
Town 1-Shot Cop
+ Show Spoiler +Welcome, [Player Name], you are a Town 1-Shot Cop.
Abilities:
Once at night, you may investigate a player in the game by PM'ing the mod. You will get results back in the form of Town, Antitown or No Result.
Win condition:
You win when all threats to the town have been eliminated and there is at least one town player alive.
Town Doctor
+ Show Spoiler +Welcome, [Player Name], you are a Town Doctor.
Abilities:
Each night phase, you may protect one player in the game from one nightkill.
Win condition:
You win when all threats to the town have been eliminated and there is at least one town player alive.
Town 1-Shot Doctor
+ Show Spoiler +Welcome, [Player Name], you are a Town 1-Shot Doctor.
Abilities:
Once at night, you may protect a player in the game from one nightkill.
Win condition:
You win when all threats to the town have been eliminated and there is at least one town player alive.
Town Vigilante
+ Show Spoiler +Welcome, [Player Name], you are a Town Vigilante.
Abilities:
Each night, you may select a player in the game to target for a nightkill.
Win condition:
You win when all threats to the town have been eliminated and there is at least one town player alive.
Town 1-Shot Vigilante
+ Show Spoiler +Welcome, [Player Name], you are a Town 1-Shot Vigilante.
Abilities:
Once at night, you may select a player in the game to target for a nightkill.
Win condition:
You win when all threats to the town have been eliminated and there is at least one town player alive.
Town Innocent Child
+ Show Spoiler +Welcome, [Player Name], you are a Town Innocent Child.
Abilities:
At the start of Day 1, the moderator of the game will announce you as an Innocent Child, confirming you as town.
Win condition:
You win when all threats to the town have been eliminated and there is at least one town player alive.
Town Mason
+ Show Spoiler +Welcome, [Player Name], you are a Town Mason along with your partner(s) [Player Name] (and [Player Name]).
Abilities:
You are confirmed town to your mason partner(s) and vice versa. You are permitted to talk to your partner(s) during pregame and at nights in this [quicktopic].
Win condition:
You win when all threats to the town have been eliminated and there is at least one town player alive.
Town Roleblocker
+ Show Spoiler +Welcome, [Player Name], you are a Town Roleblocker.
Abilities:
Each night, you may select a player in the game to roleblock. They will not be able to perform an action at night if they have one.
Win condition:
You win when all threats to the town have been eliminated and there is at least one town player alive.
Town 1-Shot Roleblocker
+ Show Spoiler +Welcome, [Player Name], you are a Town 1-Shot Roleblocker.
Abilities:
Once at night, you may select a player in the game to roleblock. They will not be able to perform an action on this night if they have one.
Win condition:
You win when all threats to the town have been eliminated and there is at least one town player alive.
Mafia Goon
+ Show Spoiler +Welcome, [Player Name]. You are a Mafia Goon, along with your partner(s), [Player Name] (and [Player Name]).
Abilities:
Factional communication: During the night phase you may talk with your partners here [QuickTopic link].
Factional kill: Each night phase, one of you or your partners may perform the factional kill.
Win condition:
You win when the Mafia obtain a majority or nothing can prevent this from occurring.
Mafia Roleblocker
+ Show Spoiler +Welcome, [Player Name]. You are a Mafia Roleblocker, along with your partner(s), [Player Name] (and [Player Name]).
Abilities:
Factional communication: During the night phase you may talk with your partners here [QuickTopic link].
Factional kill: Each night phase, one of you or your partners may perform the factional kill.
Roleblock: Each night phase, you individually may perform a roleblock on another player in the game. You cannot block and kill in the same night.
Win condition:
You win when the Mafia obtain a majority or nothing can prevent this from occurring.
Mafia Godfather
+ Show Spoiler +Welcome, [Player Name]. You are a Mafia Godfather, along with your partner(s), [Player Name] (and [Player Name]).
Abilities:
Factional communication: During the night phase you may talk with your partners here [QuickTopic link].
Factional kill: Each night phase, one of you or your partners may perform the factional kill.
Investigation Immunity: You appear innocent to Cop investigations.
Win condition:
You win when the Mafia obtain a majority or nothing can prevent this from occurring.
Serial Killer
+ Show Spoiler +Welcome, [Player Name]. You are a Serial Killer.
Abilities:
Pregame you must choose to be either Investigation Immune or 1-Shot Bulletproof.
Each night phase, you may select a player in the game to nightkill.
Win condition:
You win when you are the last player alive or nothing can prevent this from occurring.
Serial Killer
Signups
- Blurry
- playerboy345
- heavenz
- JonnyLaw
- onlywonderboy
- stormtemplar
- Zaragon
- Balla24
- xIvanJ
- Jayte
- MLuneth
- BajaBlood
- Bereft
Replacements
- Koshi
Coaches:
Scum: FirmTofu
Town: Stutters695, mkfuba07, Blazinghand, ShiaoPi
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can coach either alignment if you'd like.
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On September 08 2013 09:03 Stutters695 wrote:
can coach either alignment if you'd like.
Great, I'll get you to coach whatever is needed so, once other coaches sign up.
On September 08 2013 09:07 Umasi wrote:
/cohost
On September 08 2013 09:22 cakepie wrote:
/cohost
I've sent you two a PM
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On September 09 2013 09:56 Blurry wrote:
/in
yaaaaay
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I'm available to coach town if you'll have me 
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I would love to coach scum.
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/obs
Already played my newbies 
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
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TAIWAN NUMBAH WAN5955 Posts
/availible for coaching
I should not be able to mess that up as badly as hosting >_>
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Sounds good. Each town (and possible SK) player will have their own coaching QT, and the scum coach will have access to the scum QT.
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/in
After last game's anticlimactic ending I hope we put up a better showing.
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excuse me, that was pretty climactic for the scum team tyvm.
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United States23745 Posts
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aw i really want to /in but don't think i have the time this week
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On September 11 2013 17:06 Koshi wrote:
/replace
A worthy use of your 10k post
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Wasn't 10k post but was close. :D
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You should /replace!
Newbie games got so many modkills D:
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On September 11 2013 20:14 Mocsta wrote:
/!N
Haven't you played too many games to join a Newbie?
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wow i am a newbieplayer and would really love a coach so much oh too bad the coach is a smurf
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I think we might have more coaches than players at this point XD
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On September 12 2013 03:11 Papa_Smurf wrote:
/coach
As needed
My real identity is Ver.....
Jk I am the wonderful Debears, also known as dibbers.
Still /coach as debears
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I can coach scum if you need someone.
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nevermind too many coaches. hehe.
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You kids better cross your fingers and hope you roll scum cause we're gonna have a blast!
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On September 11 2013 21:02 deconduo wrote:Haven't you played too many games to join a Newbie?
Yes. But I didn't write in muahahaha
! N
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On September 12 2013 03:11 Papa_Smurf wrote:
/coach
As needed
On September 12 2013 08:31 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
/coach Scum
On September 12 2013 13:32 DarthPunk wrote:
I can coach scum if you need someone.
I think we're ok for coaches, but I'll let you know if we need more. Thanks for offering anyway.
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On September 12 2013 21:05 deconduo wrote:Show nested quote +On September 12 2013 13:32 DarthPunk wrote:
I can coach scum if you need someone. I think we're ok for coaches, but I'll let you know if we need more. Thanks for offering anyway.
Town Coaches:
Coaches wanted
Scum Coaches:
Coaches wanted
in that case you might want to update this from the OP
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1 personal coach per player gogo.
I'll join if game hasn't started by Monday!
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On September 12 2013 21:19 Aquanim wrote:Show nested quote +On September 12 2013 21:05 deconduo wrote:On September 12 2013 03:11 Papa_Smurf wrote:
/coach
As needed On September 12 2013 08:31 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
/coach Scum On September 12 2013 13:32 DarthPunk wrote:
I can coach scum if you need someone. I think we're ok for coaches, but I'll let you know if we need more. Thanks for offering anyway. in that case you might want to update this from the OP
I thought I'd gotten rid of that already, whops.
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Bereft, its been a few days, you still busy?
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On September 12 2013 18:14 Mocsta wrote:Show nested quote +On September 11 2013 21:02 deconduo wrote:On September 11 2013 20:14 Mocsta wrote:
/!N Haven't you played too many games to join a Newbie? Yes. But I didn't write in muahahaha ! N
![[image loading]](http://marshallmashup.usc.edu/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/success.jpg)
hahahahaha
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On September 15 2013 16:23 Blurry wrote:
Bereft, its been a few days, you still busy?
really wish I could join, but unfortunately don't think I'll be able to put in the required amount of time to be effective
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Only 3 short of starting now.
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I want this to start already
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/in
Got a bit of time now, might as well give this another go
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/obs
hai
dammit start already
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On September 20 2013 22:54 JieXian wrote:
/obs
hai
dammit start already
Welcome back
Its been forever
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im new, how do i sign up!?
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On September 20 2013 23:12 Mocsta wrote:Welcome back Its been forever
:D you should obs with me
I'll only be playing at the end of the year.
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ah, fck it, i can do this
/in
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I've sent out PMs asking everyone to confirm that they are still able to play. Game will start as soon as everyone is verified.
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If anyone can't, I'd be interested to sub in. I'd probably be willing to sub in for anyone that gets modkilled, but seems like it might be extra tough to have to jump into my first ever game partway through. /in
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sweet! how many confirms are we waiting on now?
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On September 23 2013 23:08 Bereft wrote:
sweet! how many confirms are we waiting on now?
1
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We're starting tomorrow at 22:00 GMT (+00:00) Just waiting on one last confirmation, we'll start with a replacement if he hasn't replied by then.
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Hopefully they can get in touch with a last player soon.
I'll be in and out through the night to check and see if we're gonna start today.
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I hope we have an active game :D
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That's hard to say so early. Never know the particular circumstances before game even starts.
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aw man excitedly went to check my role pm and nada
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Role PMs have gone out, Day 1 will begin shortly
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Day 1
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/ZwV4gl8l.png)
Welcome to Newbie Mini Mafia XLVIII. You have just under 48 hours to choose who to lynch today. Good luck.
Voting deadline is in
The voting thread is here.
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Good luck all! I wish you the best of luck.
+ Show Spoiler +I'm still rooting for scum, though. ^_^
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woohoo! party like it's TeamLiquid's birthday.
so the almost complete absence of chatter even pregame makes me a bit wary. so i would suggest that we strongly and seriously threaten any lurkers with our day 1 lynch. 0 tolerance for lurking! my previous newbie game suffered from modkills and inactivity, and as a result it became really hard to gather a complete picture or at least see how 1 player reacted in the context of another considering only 50% was participating..
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I'd say it will depend on the lurker ratio. But it's a small game, so I will agree we need pretty low lurker tolerance.
Anyone played with each other before?
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Lynching lurkers gives next to zero information though. We have 28 hours before that decision needs to be made.
Considering the game was supposed to start a few hours ago I think you're both being very hasty here. Wait and the scummy players will expose themselves.
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We can hope so, that would certainly make things easy. But if we end up with even close to half the group lurking, that incentivizes scum to lurk, sit and do nothing for a win. Doesn't sound appealing, I hope?
Besides, we don't even know who the lurkers are before late in the day, so I'm not sure your point makes sense.
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I'm saying, the game opened less than an hour ago. Why are you worried about lurkers already? Give them time.
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We are generating discussion from nothingness start of day 1, it's all good.
Anyway, I really need sleep. Try to push the lurkers into the open, please. If we make it a policy from the start, they won't get ideas.
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On September 25 2013 11:21 JonnyLaw wrote:
Lynching lurkers gives next to zero information though. We have 28 hours before that decision needs to be made.
Considering the game was supposed to start a few hours ago I think you're both being very hasty here. Wait and the scummy players will expose themselves.
hasty? nah, i don't think so. last game, we allowed lurkers to slide by through to day 2(!). i think that kind of behavior basically set town up as a massive pushover and led to us losing in 2 days. i don't think there's any downside in establishing from the onset how we intend to play and what expectations we may have of each other. plus, one of the worst things you can do as a town player is to make zero effort to establish or at least prove yourself as town. i'm not asking for loads of spam -- i'm at work for >= 12 hours a day myself -- but just a thoughtful post or 2. i don't think that's unreasonable to ask... do you?
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Not at all. I'm saying we were scheduled to start nearly five hours ago. We started 47 minutes ago. Not everyone has the luxury of f5ing TL constantly.
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It's just a good topic to start on. Establishing the fact that lurkers will not be tolerated early on is always good. The game is not fun when it is not active, so let's make it clear that non-active people are not welcome in this game. There's really very little to talk about during first day, especially when there are no kills. This is a good start if it will generate a few posts.
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exactly. game started 47 mins ago. there is literally nothing to discuss save speculation about set-up (we don't got no innocent child). how would you suggest we jump start conversation then?
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Hey folks - first game here on the TL boards, should be interesting. Hopefully the coaching and having read a bit through some of the other games that are going on will help.
I won't be able to post during working hours (US CT), but expect to be around evenings and can try to check the thread in the morning as well.
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United States23745 Posts
It's a bit early still, random lurker lynching could be the beginning of the end for the non-mafia. I mean, you could get lucky, but it's a pretty big risk to start off though.
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Also, I'm going to have to try reallllly hard not to edit posts, lol. I have a dreadful habit of noticing grammar/spelling errors right as I click post and fix them immediately after (probably a good 30-50% of my posts outside of this forum). Hopefully I don't get myself mod-killed
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United States23745 Posts
On September 25 2013 13:01 BajaBlood wrote:
Also, I'm going to have to try reallllly hard not to edit posts, lol. I have a dreadful habit of noticing grammar/spelling errors right as I click post and fix them immediately after (probably a good 30-50% of my posts outside of this forum). Hopefully I don't get myself mod-killed
Oh god, I do this constantly. Gotta remember this rule >_<
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The key to winning the game for town is getting everybody to participate and keep discussions orderly and concise.
We need to create an atmosphere where players are actively participating and feel that their reads are valued. If you feel like your ideas are always shot down you may be tempted to just bandwagon which won't help us with reading and weeding out scum.
On lynching lurkers: we're not sure if we're going to have any anyways so lets not worry about this for now.
Post quality information over quantity. If you only have 10 posts a day, but they are all excellent posts, you are doing a better job than the guy who posts 50 times but just spams information.
We will be lynching someone day 1. This is the best way for us to get information. Mafia tend to try to keep their heads down day 1 and become braver as the days go on. DO NOT LET THEM DO THIS. We need to hear from everybody. If you're asked questions, answer them. If you're town, you have nothing to hide so why not be as open as possible with everything (except if you're a blue, don't reveal that).
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It's game time. Mafia, put your hands up now.
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United States23745 Posts
On September 25 2013 14:39 Jayte wrote:
It's game time. Mafia, put your hands up now.
If only it were that easy lol.
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Welp guess I fell asleep an hour before the game started T_T
Anyways I agree with Blurry, we have to lynch someone day 1 to put some pressure on mafia, otherwise they can just sit this one out doing basically nothing.
On September 25 2013 13:04 onlywonderboy wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2013 13:01 BajaBlood wrote:
Also, I'm going to have to try reallllly hard not to edit posts, lol. I have a dreadful habit of noticing grammar/spelling errors right as I click post and fix them immediately after (probably a good 30-50% of my posts outside of this forum). Hopefully I don't get myself mod-killed Oh god, I do this constantly. Gotta remember this rule >_<
THIS SO MUCH.
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By the way, anyone online right now?
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Ye I am here.
I'd say it will depend on the lurker ratio. But it's a small game, so I will agree we need pretty low lurker tolerance.
Anyone played with each other before
I played my first game with Blurry and Bereft. Blurry played a solid town, I would expect him to do the same here.
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It is possible to vote for a lynch stormtemplar, as far as I know atleast.
I think we should hold off on lynching lurkers the first day, but if they continue to lurk we definitely should lynch them, imo it's a scumtell as that's what a scum would like to do - be passive and watch townies kill other townies and jumping on lynchwagons whenever a townie is in danger of getting lynched.
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Count me in the policy lynch camp as well, at least for Day 1, then perhaps on Day 2 depending on how our reads are developing.
I can't imagine anyone would give themselves up on the first day. As a result, it seems that using the first lynch to help us create the right sort of environment is a better strategy than killing someone who we think is a few % more likely to be scum based on their first post or two. Of course, if I do feel like someone has 'raised their hand' Day 1 I'll let you know.
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Also I totally read the post two above mine as "LYNCH STORMTEMPLAR". Was going to say, 'that's an interesting first move'
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0.o this has begun already? Dayuuum I just woke up!
I personally agree with Blurry, Playerboy345 and Stormtemplar we should NOT lynch lurkers on day1, it puts zero pressure on scum and will likely just clear out townies..
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After rereading the previous page I found this:
On September 25 2013 11:11 Bereft wrote:
woohoo! party like it's TeamLiquid's birthday.
so the almost complete absence of chatter even pregame makes me a bit wary. so i would suggest that we strongly and seriously threaten any lurkers with our day 1 lynch. 0 tolerance for lurking! my previous newbie game suffered from modkills and inactivity, and as a result it became really hard to gather a complete picture or at least see how 1 player reacted in the context of another considering only 50% was participating..
Can you explain your opinion on this a bit more? The only thing you CAN achieve with lynching lurkers is getting people to be more active, and I'm pretty sure we need to hunt scum, not force people to write meaningless posts. It puts literally ZERO pressure on the mafia, we need to be actively scumhunting - not lurkerhunting.
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United States23745 Posts
On September 25 2013 21:16 BajaBlood wrote:
Also I totally read the post two above mine as "LYNCH STORMTEMPLAR". Was going to say, 'that's an interesting first move'
I thought the same thing. Thought "boy, that escalated quickly."
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Not being able to edit sucks
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If I were allowed to edit it would be more like:
![[image loading]](http://31.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mawylnDAG31rq3b5ko1_500.jpg)
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Both Serial Killer and Mafia night kills can be roleblocked.
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Hey guys, let try and keep the jokes down a little, it just ends up clogging up the thread, something that just helps mafia. In terms of policy lynching a lurker on d1(and in general), I'm against it simply because it lets maf chill (as they know how we will act) rather then being on their toes and hopefully making mistakes that we can punish.
As for my idea on on lurkers, I think pressure is key as there is really no reason for town to avoid discussion.
Anyway, greetings from Australia
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Question: Can the town roleblocker block like a town vigilante / maf roleblocker roleblock maf?
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the reason why it's a good strat to threaten to lynch all lurkers is to not have any lurkers in the first place. Nothing is easier for scum then just to drop a few summaries and make a post about who they suspect and then stay out of everything for the most part.
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If I were scum and town was going to lynch lurkers I wouldn't be scared at all, just jump on the bandwagon, provide some arguments and you're cool. It puts absolutely ZERO pressure on scum, I'll quote myself:
On September 25 2013 21:50 playerboy345 wrote:
we need to be actively scumhunting - not lurkerhunting.
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It's not about lurker-hunting. It's about pushing lurkers into the open and forcing them to show their alignment as much as possible. Please don't undermine that pressure, it's not pro-town.
I'm all for lynching a scum read for information as first priority, but first we need scum reads, and to have scum reads we need people to type things.
One of the few ways anyone is going to go after each other day one is based on their meta knowledge of each other, and in this game that only puts Bereft, Blurry and heavenz in the spotlight so far (unless someone has neglected to mention playing with each other, so far).
In essence, we don't have good odds for hitting scum yet. We can try to produce active townies and posts from scum to read. So let's do that.
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We can't and shouldn't be discussing whether or not we should be lynching lurkers. Even if you aren't a lurker policy lyncher day 1 you need to at least show that lurking is unacceptable. It doesn't matter what your endday goal is (lynch lurkers/not lynch lurkers) but that pressure needs to be there to stop lurking from occuring. It's soooo bad, and if people think that town is going to be very adamant about lynching lurkers then they might post more.
While not lynching lurkers might be the attitude we have towards the end of the day right now we need to be in the mindset of lynching lurkers until we see that it won't be a problem. It's not a black and white choice for day1 right away. If it's not a problem when it gets close to voting time then we succeeded. If it is a problem, THEN we can discuss whether or not to policy lynch lurkers. But right now the game is still opening up, our mindset should be to policy lynch lurkers.
We need to be scumhunting, so hopefully this post serves as an end to the lurker lynching discussion (we will lynch lurkers!!!) and the start to the good stuff. I'd like to hear from the guys who have played together so far (i think that was Bereft, Heavenz and Blurry?), what do you guys think about the opening tone of the game and can you give us some insight on each other's play?
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T_T Zaragon we said pretty much the same thing... i need to be not so long-winded and refresh the page before i post
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I had the same problem at the start of my TL Noir game. I noticed it's a good idea to condense points as much as possible (though always using enough detail) and refresh page before each post, yep. I'm trying to learn the art of short posts, but it's not coming to me naturally
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Why change the subject T_T this was a great subject to discuss and get everyone's opinion on the matter.
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here's our last newby game: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=426146
Bereft and Blurry were town and I was mafia.
So regarding Blurry, he's very reasonable, gives good imput, but keeps a rather conservative position. He was killed night1 so, I only know his day1 play. The spectators agreed that he was the "obvious" lynch choice, because he played good town (which wasn't that obvious to the players). I would expect of him to play a good townman here as well.
Bereft has the right intention, but he was quite busy, so some decision came hasty. I would expect him to play active, calling players out who are not activly participating and pursuing town goals.
So, assuming that both are town, I'ld say we have good chances. Even if they aren't town, and they are participating well it's an advantage.
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gogogo, everybody post something
have you participated in games before this? What are your experiences with tl mafia games?
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This is my first game of any mafia. I used to play sc2 mafia but that really really doesn't count haha... I became interested in playing real mafia by watching eSports mafia on twitch.tv/koibu where a bunch of esports personalities (some from this forum) play games over skype.
So all I really have is my knowledge from watching that for a bunch of weeks and then i've lurked in some threads before that. I've read up on a bunch of stuff in the stickies and what not for a while and i decided to dive into this one.
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ic, nice. The main difference between the "big" games and the newby games is that the players already have an idea of how the other players would react in a situation. Here no one knows anyone, but really unlike the arcard games we can't rely on the (blue) roles to solve this.
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United States23745 Posts
Yeah, being complete strangers definitely complicates the process in the early stages here. We have zero information to work with, but waiting for special roles to get rolling most likely gives the mafia an advantage.
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See, when more than 47 minutes have elapsed everyone in the game has posted something at least. Of those posters a couple stand out to me. At the moment I'm wary of Jayte and Mluneth.
On September 25 2013 14:39 Jayte wrote:
It's game time. Mafia, put your hands up now.
Since he joined the game this is his sole contribution. Meh...not trying to contribute, just posting to say he posted.
On September 25 2013 22:55 MLuneth wrote:
Question: Can the town roleblocker block like a town vigilante / maf roleblocker roleblock maf?
This is an odd question. Feels like someone trying to role call falsely in order to be above suspicion. Why not pm your coach or a mod?
Mluneth's other post since joining
+ Show Spoiler +On September 25 2013 22:51 MLuneth wrote:Hey guys, let try and keep the jokes down a little, it just ends up clogging up the thread, something that just helps mafia. In terms of policy lynching a lurker on d1(and in general), I'm against it simply because it lets maf chill (as they know how we will act) rather then being on their toes and hopefully making mistakes that we can punish. As for my idea on on lurkers, I think pressure is key as there is really no reason for town to avoid discussion. Anyway, greetings from Australia
It's early but those are my impressions upon going through everyone's posts individually.
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On September 26 2013 00:23 playerboy345 wrote:
Why change the subject T_T this was a great subject to discuss and get everyone's opinion on the matter.
I would love to hear everyone's opinion on it. But it's a newbie game and I would also like people to feel comfortable coming in discussing something else, not be completely put off by feeling like they're branded a lurker and need to talk about lurking. Honestly I care more about getting a good game going than making avenues of discussion that pressures lurkers too hard just to justify lurking. We only want them to contribute, about that or something else.
On September 26 2013 00:25 heavenz wrote:here's our last newby game: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=426146Bereft and Blurry were town and I was mafia. So regarding Blurry, he's very reasonable, gives good imput, but keeps a rather conservative position. He was killed night1 so, I only know his day1 play. The spectators agreed that he was the "obvious" lynch choice, because he played good town (which wasn't that obvious to the players). I would expect of him to play a good townman here as well. Bereft has the right intention, but he was quite busy, so some decision came hasty. I would expect him to play active, calling players out who are not activly participating and pursuing town goals. So, assuming that both are town, I'ld say we have good chances. Even if they aren't town, and they are participating well it's an advantage.
At a glance, you were pretty good scum and Blurry pretty good town, Bereft improving well. Good input.
On September 26 2013 00:55 Balla24 wrote:
This is my first game of any mafia. I used to play sc2 mafia but that really really doesn't count haha... I became interested in playing real mafia by watching eSports mafia on twitch.tv/koibu where a bunch of esports personalities (some from this forum) play games over skype.
So all I really have is my knowledge from watching that for a bunch of weeks and then i've lurked in some threads before that. I've read up on a bunch of stuff in the stickies and what not for a while and i decided to dive into this one.
I got into playing mafia the same way. I'm really tempted to ask and compare favorite players, but unfortunately that's against the rules under "off topic", I believe. Darn.
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Alright, I lied, I might be able to check in during lunch time while at work
Nothing to contribute about player histories as it's my first game, but thanks to those that were able to provide a bit of background.
On September 26 2013 01:20 JonnyLaw wrote:See, when more than 47 minutes have elapsed everyone in the game has posted something at least. Of those posters a couple stand out to me. At the moment I'm wary of Jayte and Mluneth. Show nested quote +On September 25 2013 14:39 Jayte wrote:
It's game time. Mafia, put your hands up now. Since he joined the game this is his sole contribution. Meh...not trying to contribute, just posting to say he posted.
Yeah, it's the shortest post so far, but I don't think he's alone in not having contributed any substance yet (myself included). Hopefully we'll start to see more contributions as our discussions turn more in this direction. Moving into discussions like this is probably more productive than the policy lynch, though - at least the guides say so 
On September 26 2013 01:20 JonnyLaw wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2013 22:55 MLuneth wrote:
Question: Can the town roleblocker block like a town vigilante / maf roleblocker roleblock maf? This is an odd question. Feels like someone trying to role call falsely in order to be above suspicion. Why not pm your coach or a mod?
This is interesting to me as well. Not sure what the intent behind this post was - I'd assume it was more than just to get the question answered, but it doesn't quite feel like a fake roleclaim either. Plus he's got a game behind him already, it seems, so doesn't feel like sheer ignorance either.
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On September 26 2013 01:20 JonnyLaw wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2013 22:55 MLuneth wrote:
Question: Can the town roleblocker block like a town vigilante / maf roleblocker roleblock maf? This is an odd question. Feels like someone trying to role call falsely in order to be above suspicion. Why not pm your coach or a mod? Mluneth's other post since joining + Show Spoiler +On September 25 2013 22:51 MLuneth wrote:Hey guys, let try and keep the jokes down a little, it just ends up clogging up the thread, something that just helps mafia. In terms of policy lynching a lurker on d1(and in general), I'm against it simply because it lets maf chill (as they know how we will act) rather then being on their toes and hopefully making mistakes that we can punish. As for my idea on on lurkers, I think pressure is key as there is really no reason for town to avoid discussion. Anyway, greetings from Australia does raise a good point about staying on topic but aside from that really says nothing.
On Mluneth, I agree his question is kind of odd. In fact, i'm not totally sure what it was meant to say either? I like the longer post though, it was his first post and he just wanted to get his opinion on the topic out there before going to sleep. We aren't really going to hear much more from him for a while as it is 4:00 am where he his atm.
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On September 26 2013 01:20 JonnyLaw wrote:See, when more than 47 minutes have elapsed everyone in the game has posted something at least. Of those posters a couple stand out to me. At the moment I'm wary of Jayte and Mluneth. Show nested quote +On September 25 2013 14:39 Jayte wrote:
It's game time. Mafia, put your hands up now. Since he joined the game this is his sole contribution. Meh...not trying to contribute, just posting to say he posted. Show nested quote +On September 25 2013 22:55 MLuneth wrote:
Question: Can the town roleblocker block like a town vigilante / maf roleblocker roleblock maf? This is an odd question. Feels like someone trying to role call falsely in order to be above suspicion. Why not pm your coach or a mod? Mluneth's other post since joining + Show Spoiler +On September 25 2013 22:51 MLuneth wrote:Hey guys, let try and keep the jokes down a little, it just ends up clogging up the thread, something that just helps mafia. In terms of policy lynching a lurker on d1(and in general), I'm against it simply because it lets maf chill (as they know how we will act) rather then being on their toes and hopefully making mistakes that we can punish. As for my idea on on lurkers, I think pressure is key as there is really no reason for town to avoid discussion. Anyway, greetings from Australia does raise a good point about staying on topic but aside from that really says nothing. It's early but those are my impressions upon going through everyone's posts individually.
Lol you got a good point on Jayte, didn't a scum in the previous newbie mafia game start with a similar line?
I have to disagree on your MLuneth "read" though, yes he might not be adding much to the game with that post but there really wasn't much to discuss when he posted it other then your opinion on lynching/not lynching lurkers.
Though the question is indeed a bit weird, I mean it wouldn't make any sense if he was NOT scum to ask such a question because that would be an easy blue kill night 1 for mafia, or am I missing something here?
Maybe he can clear it up when he gets online, I am quite interested in how he will defend the question.
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Hmm it seems I really should refresh the page more often, three posts between mine and the one I quoted lol.
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"Read" is a strong word to use for my post. I just went through the post histories to check people's activity and those two stuck out to me.
As I said yesterday, I don't want to jump on people too quickly and start a band wagon. We don't know their time zones or when they're available to rebuttal. They're just two people to watch because their initial comments seemed a bit off to me. Mluneth's first post was very in-line with the conversation going on at the time. Still, his question was odd.
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Yea I didn't really want to call it a read, that's why I used quotation marks.
And I agree with the question, but let's just wait and see how he will defend himself.
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I was waiting a little on this, but might as well get some discussion going:
Meta reads based on Newbie XLVII: heavenz and Bereft are coming in the way I would expect them to (which gives Bereft a little town lean and heavenz, unfortunately, nothing). Blurry is coming in a bit too constructed with only a let's-set-the-playing-field post. I would have expected something that felt a little more natural. Fine post, and if it wasn't his entrance followed by nothing I'd place it just fine in his posting pattern as town. I'm not comfortable with it as is.
playerboy345 feels towny so far
No opinion on MLuneth. Actually, if he feels comfortable enough to throw that question out (and I think I can figure out what the question is actually asking), that's pretty towny to me by itself, just odd. I have no personality read on him as yet to back that up, though, so neutral to me.
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On September 25 2013 22:55 MLuneth wrote:
Question: Can the town roleblocker block like a town vigilante / maf roleblocker roleblock maf?
Yes, roleblockers can block players of the same alignment as themselves.
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playerboy has the feel of genuinely wanting to figure something out, and a bit careful but not hesitant, considering the stage of the game. It's a personality based read and pretty weak, but to me it's a good sign I will be able to pattern read him over a short time if he turns out to be scum.
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not to rehash an old subject -- just came back to the thread -- but:
On September 25 2013 21:50 playerboy345 wrote:After rereading the previous page I found this: Show nested quote +On September 25 2013 11:11 Bereft wrote:
woohoo! party like it's TeamLiquid's birthday.
so the almost complete absence of chatter even pregame makes me a bit wary. so i would suggest that we strongly and seriously threaten any lurkers with our day 1 lynch. 0 tolerance for lurking! my previous newbie game suffered from modkills and inactivity, and as a result it became really hard to gather a complete picture or at least see how 1 player reacted in the context of another considering only 50% was participating.. Can you explain your opinion on this a bit more? The only thing you CAN achieve with lynching lurkers is getting people to be more active, and I'm pretty sure we need to hunt scum, not force people to write meaningless posts. It puts literally ZERO pressure on the mafia, we need to be actively scumhunting - not lurkerhunting.
"the only thing you CAN achieve with lynching lurkers is getting people to be more active". seems to me like you answered your own question, not sure what else you expect me to expand on.
On September 25 2013 23:42 Zaragon wrote:
It's not about lurker-hunting. It's about pushing lurkers into the open and forcing them to show their alignment as much as possible.
basically this, a thousand times this. it's to preemptively prevent any lurkers. it's better to have people talk than not talk at all. take an extreme scenario: would you want to be stuck at LYLO with a bunch of 1-liner players?
i actually want to hear more from blurry at this point. i agree with zaragon re: his first post. it's already coming off very different from his posting and attitude in the previous game. last game, his first post aimed to initiate discussion. here, he merely reiterates what we already know: quality over quantity. blurry, what are your thoughts so far in the game? i'll give your question from last game back to you: biggest scum read / biggest town read so far? that question is directed towards everyone else in the thread as well, btw.
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On September 25 2013 21:30 xIvanJ wrote:
0.o this has begun already? Dayuuum I just woke up!
I personally agree with Blurry, Playerboy345 and Stormtemplar we should NOT lynch lurkers on day1, it puts zero pressure on scum and will likely just clear out townies..
Not terribly impressed that this is the only post so far from this player... Asking for mercy on lurkers then proceeding to post nothing else.
On the other side, don't have any particularly strong townie reads at this point. Zaragon probably gives me the best feeling, but really there's no one at this point whose posts I read and think 'no way a red would say this'
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I'm not really getting any bad vibes from anybody at this point. Really need to hear from the less talkative people at this point to get a read off of them. As far as town reads I'm liking Zaragon for sure, and maybee Bereft. Both of them have been quite active in trying to move the discussion forward and providing their reads. They have also been looking into other's past games which i think is quite helpful for us.
We just really need to hear from the quiet ones at this point though, they are really stalling the game and it's been a whole 24 hours. Some people have 1/2 posts only and have been quite weird. If we're not going to hear from them though, i'd like to hear a bit more from Heavenz now that some time has passed, maybe there are more insights about how people are acting first day compared to that last game they played together. Blurry specifically, as his opening post -> sudden quietness is worrying from what I hear so far about his play.
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On my question, I'm a curious guy! I got lynched d3 and it's been several months since I last played, so I might be a little sketchy on some rules.
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Time for my first scum read: heavenz
I think he is scum because:
- Willingness to bring up useless information/ ask for pointless information that is irrelevant to the scumhunt
+ Show Spoiler +On September 26 2013 00:25 heavenz wrote:here's our last newby game: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=426146Bereft and Blurry were town and I was mafia. So regarding Blurry, he's very reasonable, gives good imput, but keeps a rather conservative position. He was killed night1 so, I only know his day1 play. The spectators agreed that he was the "obvious" lynch choice, because he played good town (which wasn't that obvious to the players). I would expect of him to play a good townman here as well. Bereft has the right intention, but he was quite busy, so some decision came hasty. I would expect him to play active, calling players out who are not activly participating and pursuing town goals. So, assuming that both are town, I'ld say we have good chances. Even if they aren't town, and they are participating well it's an advantage.
+ Show Spoiler +On September 26 2013 00:49 heavenz wrote:gogogo, everybody post something have you participated in games before this? What are your experiences with tl mafia games?
In regards to your first post I feel that the last game is pretty irrelevant as hopefully they learned something in between game. Furthermore, this information is even more useless if they are scum, in which case it can put us off them completely.
On your second point we really don't want everyone posting their previous experiences of mafia as it just clogs up the thread.
He wants to clog up the thread, a scum tell
- A willingness to lynch lurkers
+ Show Spoiler +On September 25 2013 23:14 heavenz wrote:
the reason why it's a good strat to threaten to lynch all lurkers is to not have any lurkers in the first place. Nothing is easier for scum then just to drop a few summaries and make a post about who they suspect and then stay out of everything for the most part.
What he leaves out in this good plan of his is that lynching lurkers gives us no information and therefore completely wastes the lynch, meaning that mafia gets to kill someone effectively for free
He wants us to waste our lynch, a scum tell
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onlywounderboy: only oneliners, while I am not against one liners at all, just writing 1 liners lacks much content. He tries to show activness even though he has no content, perhaps he didn't know what to write in the beginning.
Now after 24h you should write more than 1 liners.
Zaragon: has my strongest town read so far.
Blurry is really falling behind expectation, that's weird. You really should post more.
lurkers:Jayte, xIvanJ
You both have to participate way more.
Stormtemplar is to me the most suspicious. He has 3 posts, 2 of which are about the lurker topic, and then the only relevant post
@Zaragon: I agree on bereft, he's been active, contributing and putting out strategy ideas and generally behaving as one would expect a townie to behave. I also feel the same as you about heavenz: we just don't have enough to get a solid read one way or the other.
Playerboy though, I'd like to hear more about this. What makes him seem town to you? I'm not really getting much one way or the other.
Also, with you all on Jaytee. Where'd he go? He was clearly here, so why the disappearance? Simply going inactive is a classic inexperienced mafia behavior, and at best he's an inactive townie, which is not good for us. Obviously he's done nothing scummy, but doing nothing is itself kinda scummy. He needs to show up and post so we can get some reads.
While this isn't a scummy post in itself, but it's not useful either. He just joins in on Zaragon's reads, and calls out a lurker. Asks Playerboy on his ideas (probably so he can just join them in again, if they find appeal, and again gives zero reads from himself). Imho scummy.
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On September 26 2013 16:26 MLuneth wrote:Time for my first scum read: heavenz I think he is scum because: - Willingness to bring up useless information/ ask for pointless information that is irrelevant to the scumhunt
+ Show Spoiler +On September 26 2013 00:25 heavenz wrote:here's our last newby game: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=426146Bereft and Blurry were town and I was mafia. So regarding Blurry, he's very reasonable, gives good imput, but keeps a rather conservative position. He was killed night1 so, I only know his day1 play. The spectators agreed that he was the "obvious" lynch choice, because he played good town (which wasn't that obvious to the players). I would expect of him to play a good townman here as well. Bereft has the right intention, but he was quite busy, so some decision came hasty. I would expect him to play active, calling players out who are not activly participating and pursuing town goals. So, assuming that both are town, I'ld say we have good chances. Even if they aren't town, and they are participating well it's an advantage.
+ Show Spoiler +On September 26 2013 00:49 heavenz wrote:gogogo, everybody post something have you participated in games before this? What are your experiences with tl mafia games?
In regards to your first post I feel that the last game is pretty irrelevant as hopefully they learned something in between game. Furthermore, this information is even more useless if they are scum, in which case it can put us off them completely.
On your second point we really don't want everyone posting their previous experiences of mafia as it just clogs up the thread.
He wants to clog up the thread, a scum tell
- A willingness to lynch lurkers
+ Show Spoiler +On September 25 2013 23:14 heavenz wrote:
the reason why it's a good strat to threaten to lynch all lurkers is to not have any lurkers in the first place. Nothing is easier for scum then just to drop a few summaries and make a post about who they suspect and then stay out of everything for the most part.
What he leaves out in this good plan of his is that lynching lurkers gives us no information and therefore completely wastes the lynch, meaning that mafia gets to kill someone effectively for free
He wants us to waste our lynch, a scum tell
I appreciate your efford, but I disagree. I am sharing my advantage of knowing how Blurry and Bereft play with you. Even if they are mafia, they now have to fake participation, because otherwise it would be obvious to me that they are playing completly different than in their game where they were town. I wanted you to know this too.
I know in the guids it's written that 1 liners clog up the thread are a mafia tell, however I straight out think that wrongs, and at least do newby games it doesn't apply at all. We have not even 8 full pages... that's nothing. Even 1 liners have an opinion and thus are better than nothing, also 1 liners can create discussion.
You are implying that the lurker has to be town, when that isn't necessarly the case either. It's a scum tell if someone doesn't participates at all. And we don't necessarly have to lynch a lurker.
Anyway brining the lurker discussion still up is distracting and thus scummy.
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It's true that we could get lucky, but I feel that it's rather unlikely as On September 25 2013 23:14 heavenz wrote:
Nothing is easier for scum then just to drop a few summaries and make a post about who they suspect and then stay out of everything for the most part.
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On September 26 2013 17:25 MLuneth wrote:It's true that we could get lucky, but I feel that it's rather unlikely as Show nested quote +On September 25 2013 23:14 heavenz wrote:
Nothing is easier for scum then just to drop a few summaries and make a post about who they suspect and then stay out of everything for the most part.
Ask yourself, how is that helping town what you're doing.
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Sry guys its the quarter end and work is a biatch.
On September 26 2013 16:26 MLuneth wrote:Time for my first scum read: heavenz I think he is scum because: - Willingness to bring up useless information/ ask for pointless information that is irrelevant to the scumhunt
+ Show Spoiler +On September 26 2013 00:25 heavenz wrote:here's our last newby game: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=426146Bereft and Blurry were town and I was mafia. So regarding Blurry, he's very reasonable, gives good imput, but keeps a rather conservative position. He was killed night1 so, I only know his day1 play. The spectators agreed that he was the "obvious" lynch choice, because he played good town (which wasn't that obvious to the players). I would expect of him to play a good townman here as well. Bereft has the right intention, but he was quite busy, so some decision came hasty. I would expect him to play active, calling players out who are not activly participating and pursuing town goals. So, assuming that both are town, I'ld say we have good chances. Even if they aren't town, and they are participating well it's an advantage.
+ Show Spoiler +On September 26 2013 00:49 heavenz wrote:gogogo, everybody post something have you participated in games before this? What are your experiences with tl mafia games?
In regards to your first post I feel that the last game is pretty irrelevant as hopefully they learned something in between game. Furthermore, this information is even more useless if they are scum, in which case it can put us off them completely.
On your second point we really don't want everyone posting their previous experiences of mafia as it just clogs up the thread.
He wants to clog up the thread, a scum tell
- A willingness to lynch lurkers
+ Show Spoiler +On September 25 2013 23:14 heavenz wrote:
the reason why it's a good strat to threaten to lynch all lurkers is to not have any lurkers in the first place. Nothing is easier for scum then just to drop a few summaries and make a post about who they suspect and then stay out of everything for the most part.
What he leaves out in this good plan of his is that lynching lurkers gives us no information and therefore completely wastes the lynch, meaning that mafia gets to kill someone effectively for free
He wants us to waste our lynch, a scum tell
The last point you made would only be true if all the scums are active and are not lurkers.
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I'll try and explain my last point better.
If we policy lynch maf will be able to infulence the vote to a townie relatively easily. At the end of the ly
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I accidentally posted that -__-
At the end of the lynch,we have gained nothing and a townie is dead.
However, if we lynch first on reads and use how much people lurk as a part of these reads we will always gain information as we have people that will oppose the lynch, latch on a little too easily and of course the person who first proposes the lynch
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So my opinions after gazing through filters:
+ Show Spoiler [onlywonderboy] +He has added nothing to the game by far, his posts are just one-liners which are basically useless posts. Hopefully we'll hear some more of him soon
+ Show Spoiler [Zaragon] +The one thing I found a bit odd was that he clothed his opinions on MLuneth and heavenz/Bereft with arguments but the only thing he said about me was that I feel towny. I'm wondering why he didn't back this up with arguments like he did with the other cases. Overall I think he is town, but not using arguments and just saying "he feels town" is a bit weird in my opinion. (It feels so wrong to be suspicious of someone who called you town T_T)
+ Show Spoiler [stormtemplar] +I think he is town, he made himself very clear on the lurker subject and asked me to elaborate when I wasn't clear enough. He also questioned the same thing I did - Zaragon not using arguments on his opinion of me. I haven't read anything of him yet that I could even consider a scumread, he just tries to force information out of others, like:
Also, with you all on Jaytee. Where'd he go? He was clearly here, so why the disappearance? Simply going inactive is a classic inexperienced mafia behavior, and at best he's an inactive townie, which is not good for us. Obviously he's done nothing scummy, but doing nothing is itself kinda scummy. He needs to show up and post so we can get some reads.
+ Show Spoiler [Jayte] +Only an one-liner so far, and a highly suspicious (imo) one at that
+ Show Spoiler [JonnyLaw] +I got nothing on him so far.
+ Show Spoiler [heavenz] +On September 26 2013 16:58 heavenz wrote:
onlywounderboy: only oneliners, while I am not against one liners at all, just writing 1 liners lacks much content. He tries to show activness even though he has no content, perhaps he didn't know what to write in the beginning.
Now after 24h you should write more than 1 liners.
Zaragon: has my strongest town read so far.
Blurry is really falling behind expectation, that's weird. You really should post more.
lurkers:Jayte, xIvanJ
You both have to participate way more.
I agree with you on onlywonderboy. BUT the bolded part makes me a bit suspicious, you say Zaragon has your strongest town tell but you say nothing to back it up, same goes for Blurry. Please elaborate on this when you can.
+ Show Spoiler [MLuneth] +On September 26 2013 14:57 MLuneth wrote:
On my question, I'm a curious guy! I got lynched d3 and it's been several months since I last played, so I might be a little sketchy on some rules. What made you think it was a good idea to ask it in this thread? Wouldn't it make you an easy target for mafia or am I missing something here? And why are you going balls deep on heavenz? That's a pretty gutsy move. Your last posts basically says "I want to lynch heavenz!" without having a shitton of evidence to back it up with.
+ Show Spoiler [Bereft] +I got nothing on him so far.
+ Show Spoiler [Blurry] +His only post so far is on the lurker subject, it's not quite enough for me to have a tell on him.
+ Show Spoiler [BajaBlood] +On September 26 2013 02:48 BajaBlood wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2013 01:20 JonnyLaw wrote:See, when more than 47 minutes have elapsed everyone in the game has posted something at least. Of those posters a couple stand out to me. At the moment I'm wary of Jayte and Mluneth. On September 25 2013 14:39 Jayte wrote:
It's game time. Mafia, put your hands up now. Since he joined the game this is his sole contribution. Meh...not trying to contribute, just posting to say he posted. Yeah, it's the shortest post so far, but I don't think he's alone in not having contributed any substance yet (myself included). Hopefully we'll start to see more contributions as our discussions turn more in this direction. Moving into discussions like this is probably more productive than the policy lynch, though - at least the guides say so On September 26 2013 09:51 BajaBlood wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2013 21:30 xIvanJ wrote:
0.o this has begun already? Dayuuum I just woke up!
I personally agree with Blurry, Playerboy345 and Stormtemplar we should NOT lynch lurkers on day1, it puts zero pressure on scum and will likely just clear out townies.. Not terribly impressed that this is the only post so far from this player... Asking for mercy on lurkers then proceeding to post nothing else. First he defends Jayte for having only one/a short post with no content and then he proceeds to attack xIvanJ for having only one post with no content. Am I the only one who thinks that's SUPER suspicious? I'll keep an eye on BajaBlood and Jayte for now.
+ Show Spoiler [Balla24] +Don't got much on him so far, but nothing scummy. Like this post: On September 26 2013 11:37 Balla24 wrote:
I'm not really getting any bad vibes from anybody at this point. Really need to hear from the less talkative people at this point to get a read off of them. As far as town reads I'm liking Zaragon for sure, and maybee Bereft. Both of them have been quite active in trying to move the discussion forward and providing their reads. They have also been looking into other's past games which i think is quite helpful for us.
We just really need to hear from the quiet ones at this point though, they are really stalling the game and it's been a whole 24 hours. Some people have 1/2 posts only and have been quite weird. If we're not going to hear from them though, i'd like to hear a bit more from Heavenz now that some time has passed, maybe there are more insights about how people are acting first day compared to that last game they played together. Blurry specifically, as his opening post -> sudden quietness is worrying from what I hear so far about his play. Looks town to me.
+ Show Spoiler [xIvanJ] +Only a one-liner so far, he has to post more.
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Ugh it seems I really need to refresh the page more often -_-
4 posts since I started writing, anyways can you provide some thoughts on my analysis though?
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On baja, I agree, especially since otherwise he sheeps other people as much as possible HOWEVER he did mention his inability to post at certain times which is his saving grace atm
I would like to hear JonnyLaw's and onlywonderboy's scum reads as neither are looking particularly clean atm.
Same goes for Jayte and xIvanJ, but really I would like them to post anything at all
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Both Jayte and xIvanJ are lurking, but there's two reasons for my apparent favoritism:
(1) When I wrote to defend Jayte, it was well under 24 hours since the game started. Since at that point I didn't know people's typical active times, I figured there was a chance he would become active in the next short period. It'd been a full 24 hours since the game opened when I brought up xIvanJ's inactivity - whatever his schedule is he should have had a chance to contribute by then.
(2) Not only has xIvanJ only written one post, I don't like it's content either. Whether or not we actually execute a policy lynch, I dislike stating that we should tolerate lurking; there has to be pressure on lurkers.
This isn't set in stone, but for now I'm gonna ##Vote: xIvanJ.
Jayte didn't really take advantage of the window of time I offered him in (1), and the second post he made wasn't particularly helpful. As it stands, I don't really care for Jayte either, but I'm not going to go back on my gut just because I've been accused of unreasonably defending him.
For now, I will sincerely hope for some good analysis from xIvanJ so that I can remove this vote.
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That aside, I think your analysis is good, playerboy. I appreciate the effort you're putting into the thread. Definitely getting a good vibe. I can understand where you are coming from with your perspective on me - you're welcome to continue to see if I' appear to be acting irrationally regarding Jayte as the game goes on.
The only other thing I disagree with is on the heavenz part - you yourself (and I did this too) said you had a greenish read to Zaragon but didn't have much to support it, why is it odd that heavenz does too?
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United States23745 Posts
I think I got scared into writing one liners due to people claiming we were going to lynch non-active people. But, tis true, I should have transitioned into writing more useful posts. This is still my first game so I'm trying to take a lot of it in. I have pretty much zero knowledge of everyone in this game so getting a read off of people on a relatively few number of pages is proving more difficult than I had hoped. That said, stand outs right now:
Jayte: Joke post to start off the game, hasn't contributed anything of value. Isn't trying to cause chaos in the town, but his absence is questionable. Mentions being busy with work, could just be throwing that out so we don't seem suspicious
MLuneth: Had that odd question to start, could have easily asked a coach instead of putting it in the thread.
playerboy: Great analysis of all the players. But, imo, it seemed like a post that was trying too hard to put the spotlight on "Hey, look, I'm helping the town!" I'm definitely not saying he should be a candidate for the first lynch, but just something to keep in mind in the future.
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On September 26 2013 21:34 BajaBlood wrote:
Both Jayte and xIvanJ are lurking, but there's two reasons for my apparent favoritism:
(1) When I wrote to defend Jayte, it was well under 24 hours since the game started. Since at that point I didn't know people's typical active times, I figured there was a chance he would become active in the next short period. It'd been a full 24 hours since the game opened when I brought up xIvanJ's inactivity - whatever his schedule is he should have had a chance to contribute by then.
(2) Not only has xIvanJ only written one post, I don't like it's content either. Whether or not we actually execute a policy lynch, I dislike stating that we should tolerate lurking; there has to be pressure on lurkers.
This isn't set in stone, but for now I'm gonna ##Vote: xIvanJ.
Jayte didn't really take advantage of the window of time I offered him in (1), and the second post he made wasn't particularly helpful. As it stands, I don't really care for Jayte either, but I'm not going to go back on my gut just because I've been accused of unreasonably defending him.
For now, I will sincerely hope for some good analysis from xIvanJ so that I can remove this vote.
I would advice to vote for Jayte assuming that xIvanJ get's modkilled or replaced.
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On September 26 2013 20:57 stormtemplar wrote:
Darn it playerboy, why did you have to go and post all that good analysis and make me look like an idiot for saying you don't post much useful information.
what are the parts you think are good of playerboys list?
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On September 26 2013 23:00 heavenz wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2013 21:34 BajaBlood wrote:
Both Jayte and xIvanJ are lurking, but there's two reasons for my apparent favoritism:
(1) When I wrote to defend Jayte, it was well under 24 hours since the game started. Since at that point I didn't know people's typical active times, I figured there was a chance he would become active in the next short period. It'd been a full 24 hours since the game opened when I brought up xIvanJ's inactivity - whatever his schedule is he should have had a chance to contribute by then.
(2) Not only has xIvanJ only written one post, I don't like it's content either. Whether or not we actually execute a policy lynch, I dislike stating that we should tolerate lurking; there has to be pressure on lurkers.
This isn't set in stone, but for now I'm gonna ##Vote: xIvanJ.
Jayte didn't really take advantage of the window of time I offered him in (1), and the second post he made wasn't particularly helpful. As it stands, I don't really care for Jayte either, but I'm not going to go back on my gut just because I've been accused of unreasonably defending him.
For now, I will sincerely hope for some good analysis from xIvanJ so that I can remove this vote. I would advice to vote for Jayte assuming that xIvanJ get's modkilled or replaced.
Good point. If as we get closer to the deadline it seems like xIvanJ isn't going to vote, I'd probably change my vote. At this point, that would mean a vote for Jayte.
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On September 26 2013 22:29 onlywonderboy wrote:
I think I got scared into writing one liners due to people claiming we were going to lynch non-active people. But, tis true, I should have transitioned into writing more useful posts. This is still my first game so I'm trying to take a lot of it in. I have pretty much zero knowledge of everyone in this game so getting a read off of people on a relatively few number of pages is proving more difficult than I had hoped. That said, stand outs right now:
Jayte: Joke post to start off the game, hasn't contributed anything of value. Isn't trying to cause chaos in the town, but his absence is questionable. Mentions being busy with work, could just be throwing that out so we don't seem suspicious
MLuneth: Had that odd question to start, could have easily asked a coach instead of putting it in the thread.
playerboy: Great analysis of all the players. But, imo, it seemed like a post that was trying too hard to put the spotlight on "Hey, look, I'm helping the town!" I'm definitely not saying he should be a candidate for the first lynch, but just something to keep in mind in the future.
Mate, all you've done here is repeat some one liners and suck up to playerboy, now I've read some of your LoL articles and they're pretty good, so I believe that you can do significantly better than that.
Super Scummy post as it ads nothing at all to any discussion
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United States23745 Posts
On September 26 2013 23:41 MLuneth wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2013 22:29 onlywonderboy wrote:
I think I got scared into writing one liners due to people claiming we were going to lynch non-active people. But, tis true, I should have transitioned into writing more useful posts. This is still my first game so I'm trying to take a lot of it in. I have pretty much zero knowledge of everyone in this game so getting a read off of people on a relatively few number of pages is proving more difficult than I had hoped. That said, stand outs right now:
Jayte: Joke post to start off the game, hasn't contributed anything of value. Isn't trying to cause chaos in the town, but his absence is questionable. Mentions being busy with work, could just be throwing that out so we don't seem suspicious
MLuneth: Had that odd question to start, could have easily asked a coach instead of putting it in the thread.
playerboy: Great analysis of all the players. But, imo, it seemed like a post that was trying too hard to put the spotlight on "Hey, look, I'm helping the town!" I'm definitely not saying he should be a candidate for the first lynch, but just something to keep in mind in the future.
Mate, all you've done here is repeat some one liners and suck up to playerboy, now I've read some of your LoL articles and they're pretty good, so I believe that you can do significantly better than that. Super Scummy post as it ads nothing at all to any discussion
I said the analysis was pretty good, but I said to be wary of playerboy. I would hardly consider that sucking up. Some of this is my fault for not jumping into the discussion earlier, but there haven't been that many posts to analysis, so of course I'm going to retread some territory. People were calling me out so I tried to be upfront with my opinions. Not scummy, just responding to the people asking to know where I stand.
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On September 26 2013 22:29 onlywonderboy wrote:
playerboy: Great analysis of all the players. But, imo, it seemed like a post that was trying too hard to put the spotlight on "Hey, look, I'm helping the town!" I'm definitely not saying he should be a candidate for the first lynch, but just something to keep in mind in the future.
I appreciate it, and I really like that you don't trust me right of the bat just because I wrote a massive wall of text, I would have questioned you if you weren't being cautious.
On September 26 2013 22:25 BajaBlood wrote:
That aside, I think your analysis is good, playerboy. I appreciate the effort you're putting into the thread. Definitely getting a good vibe. I can understand where you are coming from with your perspective on me - you're welcome to continue to see if I' appear to be acting irrationally regarding Jayte as the game goes on.
The only other thing I disagree with is on the heavenz part - you yourself (and I did this too) said you had a greenish read to Zaragon but didn't have much to support it, why is it odd that heavenz does too?
Like I said, those are only my "feels" for now, nothing is set in stone and there is still a decent amount of time left untill the nightphase, we should use this time to keep people talking, the more people talk, the more likely it is that they'll say something they weren't supposed to say.
It wasn't really odd, but I would really like to know why he thinks that Zaragon is towny, writing that someone is town is easy, backing it up with arguments is a bit harder, but it can convince people that your opinion is the right one.
On September 26 2013 23:00 heavenz wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2013 21:34 BajaBlood wrote:
Both Jayte and xIvanJ are lurking, but there's two reasons for my apparent favoritism:
(1) When I wrote to defend Jayte, it was well under 24 hours since the game started. Since at that point I didn't know people's typical active times, I figured there was a chance he would become active in the next short period. It'd been a full 24 hours since the game opened when I brought up xIvanJ's inactivity - whatever his schedule is he should have had a chance to contribute by then.
(2) Not only has xIvanJ only written one post, I don't like it's content either. Whether or not we actually execute a policy lynch, I dislike stating that we should tolerate lurking; there has to be pressure on lurkers.
This isn't set in stone, but for now I'm gonna ##Vote: xIvanJ.
Jayte didn't really take advantage of the window of time I offered him in (1), and the second post he made wasn't particularly helpful. As it stands, I don't really care for Jayte either, but I'm not going to go back on my gut just because I've been accused of unreasonably defending him.
For now, I will sincerely hope for some good analysis from xIvanJ so that I can remove this vote. I would advice to vote for Jayte assuming that xIvanJ get's modkilled or replaced.
I think xIvanJ will be modkilled, he has only posted once so far and it wasn't an impressive one at that (just agreeing with things that have already been said). Jayte hasn't really been all that productive, and his low post count isn't really helping either so that means I will put my vote on Jayte for now, would really like it if he could defend himself as I really don't want to mislynch :/. That doesn't mean I'm not suspicious of BajaBlood anymore though <3 (I appreciate you taking the time to defend yourself though, definitely a plus in my book).
##Vote: Jayte
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Morning all, just woke up and want to provide my opinions on everything that happened while I slept. I will vote in a future post, as I still want to hear from the inactives and I will be around till day end.
First off: MLuneth's re-entry into the thread is just as confusing as his entry. He opens again with an odd post in
On September 26 2013 16:26 MLuneth wrote:Time for my first scum read: heavenz I think he is scum because: - Willingness to bring up useless information/ ask for pointless information that is irrelevant to the scumhunt
+ Show Spoiler +On September 26 2013 00:25 heavenz wrote:here's our last newby game: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=426146Bereft and Blurry were town and I was mafia. So regarding Blurry, he's very reasonable, gives good imput, but keeps a rather conservative position. He was killed night1 so, I only know his day1 play. The spectators agreed that he was the "obvious" lynch choice, because he played good town (which wasn't that obvious to the players). I would expect of him to play a good townman here as well. Bereft has the right intention, but he was quite busy, so some decision came hasty. I would expect him to play active, calling players out who are not activly participating and pursuing town goals. So, assuming that both are town, I'ld say we have good chances. Even if they aren't town, and they are participating well it's an advantage.
+ Show Spoiler +On September 26 2013 00:49 heavenz wrote:gogogo, everybody post something have you participated in games before this? What are your experiences with tl mafia games?
In regards to your first post I feel that the last game is pretty irrelevant as hopefully they learned something in between game. Furthermore, this information is even more useless if they are scum, in which case it can put us off them completely.
On your second point we really don't want everyone posting their previous experiences of mafia as it just clogs up the thread.
He wants to clog up the thread, a scum tell
- A willingness to lynch lurkers
+ Show Spoiler +On September 25 2013 23:14 heavenz wrote:
the reason why it's a good strat to threaten to lynch all lurkers is to not have any lurkers in the first place. Nothing is easier for scum then just to drop a few summaries and make a post about who they suspect and then stay out of everything for the most part.
What he leaves out in this good plan of his is that lynching lurkers gives us no information and therefore completely wastes the lynch, meaning that mafia gets to kill someone effectively for free
He wants us to waste our lynch, a scum tell
The two points he makes I just flat out disagree with. I think heavenz was making pro-town moves at a point in time that there wasn't really much else going on so it WAS very useful. Past game information is always useful albeit unreliable, and trying to start conversations by asking questions (however relevant or irrelevant they are) is good. We needed discussion at that point in time and he started some. Secondly, many of us discussed the lurker lynching pretty in depth and i thought it was decided that we need to pressure them by threatening the lynch (Zaragon, Me, Heavenz). You even bringing that back up is kind of anti-town. Not only that, but Heavenz wasn't the only one pro-lurker-lynch and I think it's odd that you single him out like this.
Suspicious, IMO, but i'd rather spend this day working on getting us into a productive active mode and going after quiet people.
Especially now that we are close, we have 3 people who are insanely quiet out of 13, that's NO GOOD. Out of a possible 4 scum that means there's a 30% chance that any one person is scum, I'm willing to take that risk on a quiet person if they don't speak up and offer some good information and become interested. Really unnaceptable, so I'm agreeing with BajaBlood, playerboy and stormtemplar on this one.
and final note on the BajaBlood suspiciousness... I don't really agree with that. He's targetting 2 quiet people, and I don't honestly think it matters which one we go after. They need to step up. That's all i have to say about that.
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EBWOP: The 3 people who im saying are quiet is Blurry, xIvan and Jayte.... why is everyone letting Blurry off the hook just because he had a nice opening post?
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On September 26 2013 16:26 MLuneth wrote:Time for my first scum read: heavenz I think he is scum because: - Willingness to bring up useless information/ ask for pointless information that is irrelevant to the scumhunt
+ Show Spoiler +On September 26 2013 00:25 heavenz wrote:here's our last newby game: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=426146Bereft and Blurry were town and I was mafia. So regarding Blurry, he's very reasonable, gives good imput, but keeps a rather conservative position. He was killed night1 so, I only know his day1 play. The spectators agreed that he was the "obvious" lynch choice, because he played good town (which wasn't that obvious to the players). I would expect of him to play a good townman here as well. Bereft has the right intention, but he was quite busy, so some decision came hasty. I would expect him to play active, calling players out who are not activly participating and pursuing town goals. So, assuming that both are town, I'ld say we have good chances. Even if they aren't town, and they are participating well it's an advantage.
+ Show Spoiler +On September 26 2013 00:49 heavenz wrote:gogogo, everybody post something have you participated in games before this? What are your experiences with tl mafia games?
In regards to your first post I feel that the last game is pretty irrelevant as hopefully they learned something in between game. Furthermore, this information is even more useless if they are scum, in which case it can put us off them completely.
On your second point we really don't want everyone posting their previous experiences of mafia as it just clogs up the thread.
He wants to clog up the thread, a scum tell
- A willingness to lynch lurkers
+ Show Spoiler +On September 25 2013 23:14 heavenz wrote:
the reason why it's a good strat to threaten to lynch all lurkers is to not have any lurkers in the first place. Nothing is easier for scum then just to drop a few summaries and make a post about who they suspect and then stay out of everything for the most part.
What he leaves out in this good plan of his is that lynching lurkers gives us no information and therefore completely wastes the lynch, meaning that mafia gets to kill someone effectively for free
He wants us to waste our lynch, a scum tell
MLuneth, I don't agree with anything at all in that post. Feels like you're constructing a case; heavenz has been posting pro-town things. I suppose you could be town with a very early tunnel thought, but you feel scummy now.
If you think you really have a case and you are town, go look at the previous newbie game linked and see if you notice something scummy heavenz was doing that he's replicating now. Barring that, I'm putting you in my top four scum.
Blurry... still nothing. Could have real life explanations, but I have a bad feeling he rolled scum, started working on his first post being as pro town as possible, then realized he didn't know how to follow up as scum. I want to vote for him the most out of the lurkers, to be honest.
Still nothing on the other two lurkers obviously.
Better not overdevelop towny reads at the moment, need to reread thread and see if it'd be good or bad for town to try
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On September 27 2013 01:01 Balla24 wrote:
and final note on the BajaBlood suspiciousness... I don't really agree with that. He's targetting 2 quiet people, and I don't honestly think it matters which one we go after. They need to step up. That's all i have to say about that.
I agree with you here, both xIvanJ and Jayte need to defend themselves, we know that Jayte is around so I really want to know what he has to say for himself.
xIvanJ however has only made a single post so far and it doesn't seem like he is going to post any more, probably will get replaced/modkilled.
About the BajaBlood suspicion, I didn't say it was a 100% scumtell, it's just something that seemed off to me, however after reading his defense it made a decent amount of sense. I'm still keeping my eye on him though.
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@onlywounderboy, I was happy you explained yourself. Mluneth idea on what is scummy is a bit strange. In all honesty I am waiting for posts from Bereft and Blurry.
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Just posting to say don't vote xIvanJ. He'll be mod killed or replaced as others have said. Waste of our lynch with zero information on him. As for the other two lurkers, I don't know yet but I'm going through the filters again and will have a detailed post shortly.
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I like the emotion in Bereft's posts, even if I can see them translate to a scum mindset. But I like Bereft as a busy townie so far.
MLuneth or Blurry IMO. Xlvanj is just a policy lynch, Jayte said something half-way decent that is non-indicative to me.
MLuneth is trying to make cases that simply contradict pro town play, as if he's against contribution or meta information and talking about "clogging up" a thread that is only 9 pages as I'm writing this. It needs more contribution, not less.
Blurry I want to see write, and give a thought process behind his first post. And input on MLuneth.
Currently,
##Vote Blurry
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If anyone isn't going to be around for the voting deadline, please vote MLuneth if you like the case on him.
If Blurry shows up or there is any good town case on MLuneth, I would like to switch to a lurker at the end. But MLuneth's play is scummiest so far, Blurry's only very meta-scummy.
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EBWOP: For clarity, I would like to push for Blurry right now since MLuneth is still participating, but I don't want us to set our votes on Blurry and not be able to change them if he comes in with good points.
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Still doing a larger write up, about half way through the filters but I agree with Zaragon here. You'll be able to read why shortly.
I want to see Blurry participating more but until he does I'm assuming he's trying to fly under the radar as scum. He has 3.5 hours to redeem himself.
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+ Show Spoiler [Blurry] +His first post was good but not enough to give any read. I really hope he contributes something soon because his lack of participation is hurting the game and his chances of surviving the lynch.
+ Show Spoiler [playerboy345] + He's been active in trying to move discussion forward throughout the game. Feels okay to me for now.
+ Show Spoiler [heavenz] + heavenz willingness to question people's reads puts him out there more than he may want at this point if he was scum. Again, seems all right to keep around for now. He's contributing and trying to force slips out of people.
+ Show Spoiler [onlywonderboy] + owb I've read most of your LOL material. You can write and critically think. WHAT did you like about playerboy's analysis in particular? What are your opinions on the other twelve players in this game? I'm not liking the read I'm getting here.
+ Show Spoiler [stormtemplar] + stormtemplar is looking scummy to me. He writes a lot and yet says nothing. He's basically said he agrees zaragon might be town, he doesn't know about playerboy and death to all lurkers while telling others to contribute more to the thread. He's trying to misdirect and confuse discussion rather than forwarding it which I do not care for.
+ Show Spoiler [Zaragon] + Zaragon has been making similar reads to my own throughout the game and pushing for strong participation. He definitely feels more town than many others in the game. His willingness to focus on particular people could mean he's trying to get attention away from himself and the rest of the mafia but for now it's too early to say. I give him the benefit of the doubt.
+ Show Spoiler [Balla24] + Balla24 reads fairly town. He's been agreeing with heavenz and Zaragon whom I also like for the town. I could be getting fooled here and there are two mafia in their threesome. For now, there's better options to lynch though.
+ Show Spoiler [xIvanJ is useless] + One outta 13 aint too bad boys. Hopefully our replacement can play.
+ Show Spoiler [Jayte] + Could be lurking as a mafia. I just can't read him from the level of content he's put out.
+ Show Spoiler [MLuneth] + I want to call this guy scum from my gut. I really, really want to do it. But re-reading his posts just make me think he's a bit hasty and not scum at all. There are grammatical errors, shortened words and that half written post he managed to post. I dunno, he doesn't feel like mafia at this point in the game.
+ Show Spoiler [BajaBlood] + Hasn't said a lot. Could be leaning mafia, but he's okay for now.
+ Show Spoiler [bereft] + I know he said he'd be busy but why is no one mentioning his inactivity? Still, not the best candidate for a lynch.
Okay here's my summation. Blurry, bereft (who did say he would be busy), Jayte and xIvanJ are inactive. I still think we should look for a better lynch candidate for today.
I like zaragon, balla24 and heavenz contribution but I might be getting fooled because they seem to agree quite often. But hell, they're reasonable opinions. Time to see where people cast their votes.
I've read through stormtemplar's posts multiple times now. He literally says nothing in them.
Firstly, I hardly think the "Lurker topic" was irrelevant. It was the discussion starter and what was going on in the thread at the time. I hardly think you can throw that away as, rather undercutting your point about my lack of contribution.
Clogging conversation after being accused of being scum.
However, as to your point about me just joining Zaragon on playerboy, no, not at all. As a matter of fact, I'm not really feeling zaragon's read on him. I'm not getting solid town vibes out of him at all. He's contributed rather minimally. (7 of his posts are 1-2 lines with maybe a quote.)
I disagree and he's just trying to change the focus away from himself.
Until he puts up a better defense of himself #vote stormtemplar
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EBWOP: should be ##vote stormtemplar I guess. Sorry about that one. fk i hate not editing.
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One last post, sorry for clogging this up but vote dead line is in 2 hrs 45 mins.
Currently xIvanJ, Blurry and Jayte all have one vote. I stand by the fact that voting them off TODAY is the correct decision.
stormtemplar has shown scummy behavior and those three could still be town and contribute to the game. In three days I'm cool with voting them off if they're not active or they look like scum. But unless stormtemplar successfully defends himself in the next two hours I'm advocating that we lynch him.
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United States23745 Posts
Unfortunately I have to be getting to work, so I'll miss any last minute deliberations. I'm going to have to ##Vote: Blurry. He's had plenty of time to defend himself so I'm not sure a least minute appeal would change my mind. He sorta flew under the radar for me, but people have pointed out his lack of contribution I agree it seems problematic.
@JonnyLaw I'll respond to your inquiry when I have more time. Short version is I liked that he was putting the time into profile everyone, not that I really agreed with all the analysis. "Great" might have been too strong of a word I suppose.
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Hmm, this voting deadline is going to be awfully inconvenient, it's 5PM CT (a.k.a. right around when I get home from work). At this point I'm pretty much giving up hope that we're going to have enough time to read posts from some of these lurkers and be able to analyze them.
At this point, I think it's best to go for the scummiest player. In case this sounds contradictory to my pushing on lurkers both in the policy discussion and my vote, my goal throughout early-mid Day 1 was to make sure there was not a consensus that lurkers would avoid getting lynched - I was hoping that fear of a policy lynch would drive a few more people back into the thread. Looks like it wasn't entirely successful..
I honestly don't have time until I get off work to go through the case on stormtemplar or look through filters myself. I will try to do this as far in advance of the time deadline as possible.
In the meantime, it's been rightfully pointed out that lynching xIvanJ is not a good move for us. In case I'm unable to get back to this thread in time, here is my next vote.
##Unvote
##Vote: Jayte
Ok I need to stop slacking... This game is going to get me in trouble, lol
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Alright, it's been almost 3 1/2 hours since my post. Still no sign of the lurkers.
@JonnyLaw I'm not sold on stormtemplar's behavior being scummy. I would like to both hear more from you about it on why you think his posts have been scummy and also stormtemplar's defense. But at this point I'm not really reading scum from his posts besides the fact that he hasn't really shared tooo much about his reads and has just been going off of others. At least he is disagreeing with people which I like.
With that said. We are almost 2 hours from voting and none of the inactive people have shown their faces. We have been asking for them to talk for 2 days now and nothing. Now which one should we lynch? Here i'm going to have to go with ##Vote: Blurry. He started off with a good 1st day post (very early in the game mind you), and then nothing for 2 days straight. Not only is this completely different from his previous game (which I don't think carries too much weight) but he just doesn't seem interested.
One last thing though. Both him and xIvan have only posted once and people are saying xIvan is probably going to get modkilled...would Blurry then also get modkilled?
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That's what I'm saying. Why lynch someone, not for a lack of content but for not fucking posting. They'll be modkilled and we're wasting our time.
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I share the sentiment about stormtemplar
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I'm not sure they will even get modkilled...
Activity:
You must post in this thread once per day/night cycle and vote every day while you are alive. If you fail to do so, you will be modkilled. BE ACTIVE OR FACE MY ETERNAL WRATH!
Everyone has fulfilled that. Can we get some clarification mods, will Blurry/xIvanJ be modkilled or not?
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they have to vote, so they will be either replaced or modkilled
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EBWOP: oh they aren't going to vote probably so they will get modkilled, my bad! In that case I will wait a little longer. I'm not feeling stormtemplar as scum still. Jonnylaw can you please elaborate on why you think he's scummy?
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back to stormtemplar, he makes a post about how he didn't kow what to say,
Secondly, I've been trying to contribute but I haven't had much in the way of reads previously. At the time I really wasn't feeling anyone as scum, and Zaragon pretty much summed up my views.
then he tries to get some profil by disagreeing on playerboy
However, as to your point about me just joining Zaragon on playerboy, no, not at all. As a matter of fact, I'm not really feeling zaragon's read on him. I'm not getting solid town vibes out of him at all. He's contributed rather minimally. (7 of his posts are 1-2 lines with maybe a quote.)
then later playboy makes a post about everyone with mediocre content, more summary then analysis and stormtemplar is
+ Show Spoiler +
Darn it playerboy, why did you have to go and post all that good analysis and make me look like an idiot for saying you don't post much useful information.
I found that suspicious right away so I asked him right away what he thought were the good parts, and no answere.
like wounderboy said, and playerboy agreed
+ Show Spoiler +I appreciate it, and I really like that you don't trust me right of the bat just because I wrote a massive wall of text, I would have questioned you if you weren't being cautious.
should not same be said about stormtemplar, that's why I call it fake participation and scummy
##vote stormtemplar
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Also, yeah, it's better to talk about something irrelevant right now than it is to just not talk about anything at all.
He said this on day one. Fine, good, we should be discussing something. But it seems like he's stuck with that logic throughout his entire posting history.
If he is not scum he's definitely not helping the town out in any of his posts. He reiterates what other people have said, and says vaguely I agree or disagree. He makes no opinions of his own and kind of rambles about inactive players.
I want to know what he really thinks or why I should feel otherwise.
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On September 27 2013 04:51 Balla24 wrote:Can we get some clarification mods, will Blurry/xIvanJ be modkilled or not?
No comment. Such decisions are made after the deadline, not beforehand.
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He also said this
Simply going inactive is a classic inexperienced mafia behavior, and at best he's an inactive townie, which is not good for us. Obviously he's done nothing scummy, but doing nothing is itself kinda scummy. He needs to show up and post so we can get some reads.
Which is exactly what he's done. Kind of interesting that he would say that and then 1 post later disappear. I'm starting to get convinced but not fully. I think I need to hear his defense to see how he reacts to this pressure. I'm with you guys though, and again I'll be here till voting deadline so I hope we get some posts. It's starting to get too late to call though tbh.
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As I said, I'm open to changing my vote to one of the missing players if stormtemplar redeems himself before the vote deadline.
Is it possible to move future voting deadlines ahead two hours? I think quite a few people are at work during this time. I'm not familiar with the specifics on policies such as this one. Thanks.
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Strong town read on:
Me, Bella24, Zaragon, onlywounderboy,
good:
Baja Blood, Jonny Law
Suspicious
Stormtemplar,Mluneth (100% of his posts are suspicious, but that's so over the top that it would be odd if he was mafia)
I wouldn't be surprised if there was a playerboy & stormtemplar mafia.
Afk: Bereft, Blurry, xIvan, Jayte
Actually I think Jaytes post 2nd and last post
The last point you made would only be true if all the scums are active and are not lurkers.
makes him even more suspicious, like he's claiming mafia.
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sorry for the theory crafting, I am a bit bored right now =P
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On September 27 2013 04:05 JonnyLaw wrote:+ Show Spoiler [Blurry] +His first post was good but not enough to give any read. I really hope he contributes something soon because his lack of participation is hurting the game and his chances of surviving the lynch. He's been active in trying to move discussion forward throughout the game. Feels okay to me for now. heavenz willingness to question people's reads puts him out there more than he may want at this point if he was scum. Again, seems all right to keep around for now. He's contributing and trying to force slips out of people. owb I've read most of your LOL material. You can write and critically think. WHAT did you like about playerboy's analysis in particular? What are your opinions on the other twelve players in this game? I'm not liking the read I'm getting here. stormtemplar is looking scummy to me. He writes a lot and yet says nothing. He's basically said he agrees zaragon might be town, he doesn't know about playerboy and death to all lurkers while telling others to contribute more to the thread. He's trying to misdirect and confuse discussion rather than forwarding it which I do not care for. Zaragon has been making similar reads to my own throughout the game and pushing for strong participation. He definitely feels more town than many others in the game. His willingness to focus on particular people could mean he's trying to get attention away from himself and the rest of the mafia but for now it's too early to say. I give him the benefit of the doubt. Balla24 reads fairly town. He's been agreeing with heavenz and Zaragon whom I also like for the town. I could be getting fooled here and there are two mafia in their threesome. For now, there's better options to lynch though. One outta 13 aint too bad boys. Hopefully our replacement can play. Could be lurking as a mafia. I just can't read him from the level of content he's put out. I want to call this guy scum from my gut. I really, really want to do it. But re-reading his posts just make me think he's a bit hasty and not scum at all. There are grammatical errors, shortened words and that half written post he managed to post. I dunno, he doesn't feel like mafia at this point in the game. Hasn't said a lot. Could be leaning mafia, but he's okay for now. I know he said he'd be busy but why is no one mentioning his inactivity? Still, not the best candidate for a lynch. Okay here's my summation. Blurry, bereft (who did say he would be busy), Jayte and xIvanJ are inactive. I still think we should look for a better lynch candidate for today. I like zaragon, balla24 and heavenz contribution but I might be getting fooled because they seem to agree quite often. But hell, they're reasonable opinions. Time to see where people cast their votes. I've read through stormtemplar's posts multiple times now. He literally says nothing in them. Show nested quote +Firstly, I hardly think the "Lurker topic" was irrelevant. It was the discussion starter and what was going on in the thread at the time. I hardly think you can throw that away as, rather undercutting your point about my lack of contribution. Clogging conversation after being accused of being scum. Show nested quote +However, as to your point about me just joining Zaragon on playerboy, no, not at all. As a matter of fact, I'm not really feeling zaragon's read on him. I'm not getting solid town vibes out of him at all. He's contributed rather minimally. (7 of his posts are 1-2 lines with maybe a quote.) I disagree and he's just trying to change the focus away from himself. Until he puts up a better defense of himself #vote stormtemplar
I don't see where your Stormtemplar read comes from, nothing much was happening and he commented on my reads, adding his own. I do want to hear more from him, but people contributing well (and I think he is, relatively speaking, I don't mind thick paragraphs) are usually not good day 1 lynches. I want more to read him on, and he will give enough to see reasonably clearly whether he's scum when we have flips and roles to go on.
Hmm BajaBlood's vote is a cop-out I think, on none of the current targets. Hard to read busy people (since they could be busy deliberately as scum). Will look at him more as well.
I'll pattern read MLuneth again too; too comfortable to be scum was enough for me to explain the way he posts, at first, but then thinking about the structured post that basically just disagreed with pro-town play as a read, he's most scummy to me. I'll pattern read him again, but I still think he's a good lynch, up there with Blurry
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I wouldn't like to vote on Bereft or Blurry day1, I am a bit biased towards them, because I think they can play decently, and I think if either of them was scum then even then they would play smarter.
I don't have the same impression of Jayt and ivan.
Anyway 4 afk's is just crazy.
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I'll unvote Jayte for now, incase he gets modkilled in which case I don't want to waste my day 1 vote on him. I originally voted him to pressure him and get him to talk but it seems like he doesn't care or can't participate for whatever reason.
##Unvote Jayte
On September 27 2013 05:37 heavenz wrote:Strong town read on: Me, Bella24, Zaragon, onlywounderboy, good: Baja Blood, Jonny Law Suspicious Stormtemplar,Mluneth (100% of his posts are suspicious, but that's so over the top that it would be odd if he was mafia) I wouldn't be surprised if there was a playerboy & stormtemplar mafia. Afk: Bereft, Blurry, xIvan, Jayte Actually I think Jaytes post 2nd and last post Show nested quote +The last point you made would only be true if all the scums are active and are not lurkers. makes him even more suspicious, like he's claiming mafia.
Please do explain your town read on onlywonderboy,
On September 27 2013 04:26 onlywonderboy wrote:
Unfortunately I have to be getting to work, so I'll miss any last minute deliberations. I'm going to have to ##Vote: Blurry. He's had plenty of time to defend himself so I'm not sure a least minute appeal would change my mind. He sorta flew under the radar for me, but people have pointed out his lack of contribution I agree it seems problematic.
@JonnyLaw I'll respond to your inquiry when I have more time. Short version is I liked that he was putting the time into profile everyone, not that I really agreed with all the analysis. "Great" might have been too strong of a word I suppose.
He does a pretty last minute vote on Blurry, why? Because he hasn't defended himself yet. Guess who hasn't defended themselves yet other then Blurry: Jayte and xIvanJ, why not vote for them but for Blurry?Seems like he doesn't really care about who is lynched, as long as SOMEONE gets lynched. He really hasn't contributed alot to this thread so I disagree on your "strong" town read on him.
MLuneth... eh, could it be that he is just a dumb townie?(no offense) Sure he is suspicous but I don't see anything that SCREAMS scum to me. I'm willing to wait a little longer with him to see how his posting behaviour develops.
I also found it funny how you think I'm suspicious just because stormtemplar agrees with me lol. Honestly I would like to hear more on the stormremplar case because I feel like I'm missing something here, would greatly appreciate it if someone could point me to some of the scummy things he has done so far.
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Yeah the amount of AFKs in this game is quite discouraging. I'm sticking with storm as he's the only person I got a real read on but his last post makes me question if it's the right move with how much inactivity we have right now.
Myrzeth...I dunno he just plays oddly.
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myrzeth??? you're giving me nightmares
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After rereading this:
On September 27 2013 04:26 onlywonderboy wrote:
Unfortunately I have to be getting to work, so I'll miss any last minute deliberations. I'm going to have to ##Vote: Blurry. He's had plenty of time to defend himself so I'm not sure a least minute appeal would change my mind. He sorta flew under the radar for me, but people have pointed out his lack of contribution I agree it seems problematic.
@JonnyLaw I'll respond to your inquiry when I have more time. Short version is I liked that he was putting the time into profile everyone, not that I really agreed with all the analysis. "Great" might have been too strong of a word I suppose.
I feel onlywonderboy is the person I'm getting highest scum read from.
He likes that I put time into a post but he says that he didn't agree with all the analysis, then why not elaborate on what you didn't agree with?
He leaves with a vote on Blurry and says he'll post when he has more time, it's been two hours and he hasn't posted anything yet so my vote is on him.
##Vote onlywonderboy
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On September 27 2013 06:01 JonnyLaw wrote:
Yeah the amount of AFKs in this game is quite discouraging. I'm sticking with storm as he's the only person I got a real read on but his last post makes me question if it's the right move with how much inactivity we have right now.
Myrzeth...I dunno he just plays oddly.
myrzeth?? what game are you playing?? also sorry guys, I promise I will catch up on the thread and post once home tonight. has blurry posted anything since his day 1 post?
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##Vote: Jayte
guys, it looks like the existing lynch candidates are Jayte and Blurry. between the 2, I personally think Jayte is a much stronger candidate for the lynch. comparing their 2 post histories, would you rather an afk'er in this game who's writing 1 liners and making 0 effort vs an afk'er who writes this verbose post saying what's pro town behavior? if Blurry is indeed scum and continues to post in such a constructed manner, it'll be easy to pick his posting apart as the game goes on vs someone who writes vague 1 liners.
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Oh wow, meant myluneth. LOL that guy must have stood out in the last game.
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ok, onlywounderboy is behaving pro town because he explains himself and acts accordingly.
1. he's active in the beginning with 1 liners, to start discussion and avoid lurking
2. when you question him about this he answeres explaining himself
+ Show Spoiler +I think I got scared into writing one liners due to people claiming we were going to lynch non-active people. But, tis true, I should have transitioned into writing more useful posts. This is still my first game so I'm trying to take a lot of it in. I have pretty much zero knowledge of everyone in this game so getting a read off of people on a relatively few number of pages is proving more difficult than I had hoped. That said, stand outs right now:
Jayte: Joke post to start off the game, hasn't contributed anything of value. Isn't trying to cause chaos in the town, but his absence is questionable. Mentions being busy with work, could just be throwing that out so we don't seem suspicious
MLuneth: Had that odd question to start, could have easily asked a coach instead of putting it in the thread.
playerboy: Great analysis of all the players. But, imo, it seemed like a post that was trying too hard to put the spotlight on "Hey, look, I'm helping the town!" I'm definitely not saying he should be a candidate for the first lynch, but just something to keep in mind in the future.
then he makes his vote post because he has to go and goes with one of the afk/s which is kinda a safe bet to vote on.
+ Show Spoiler +Unfortunately I have to be getting to work, so I'll miss any last minute deliberations. I'm going to have to ##Vote: Blurry. He's had plenty of time to defend himself so I'm not sure a least minute appeal would change my mind. He sorta flew under the radar for me, but people have pointed out his lack of contribution I agree it seems problematic.
What can I say I don't know if he's really town, but he seems reasonable and constructive to me.
I also don't think you're suspicious. Like I said too I don't want to vote Blurry or Bereft.
From the active players Stormtemplar and Mluneth are suspicious
then we have still Jeyte and xIvanJ, I would be willing to vote them too though
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Bereft are you even serious right now?
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player boy, unless you're expecting a huge vote swing or think you can evoke some massive logos to convince everyone to change their minds in the last 30 mins, you do realize you're throwing your vote away, yes? any particular reason why you choose to do that?
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On September 27 2013 06:32 playerboy345 wrote:
Bereft are you even serious right now?
are you?
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I really don't understand why Blurry is set to be lynched. I'm open to other suggestions but what information do we gain by lynching someone who has said nothing all game?
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Got caught up in an intriguing conversation with a friend, now the hour is late.
MLuneth is the only person who has posted considerable amounts that I would vote for. I don't know if he's bad town or scum either, it's strange to assert himself like he does as either town or scum and then not to be responding now. Feels like scum constructing a case and dropping off at suspicions.
I wanted to push Blurry to contribute, he hasn't. I'm comfortable switching off him for now since he doesn't even seem to be coming in to vote.
##Vote MLuneth
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Being active with one-liners if anything is a scumtell imo, nothing is easier then to spam some posts with no content.
On September 27 2013 06:15 playerboy345 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2013 04:26 onlywonderboy wrote:
Unfortunately I have to be getting to work, so I'll miss any last minute deliberations. I'm going to have to ##Vote: Blurry. He's had plenty of time to defend himself so I'm not sure a least minute appeal would change my mind. He sorta flew under the radar for me, but people have pointed out his lack of contribution I agree it seems problematic.
@JonnyLaw I'll respond to your inquiry when I have more time. Short version is I liked that he was putting the time into profile everyone, not that I really agreed with all the analysis. "Great" might have been too strong of a word I suppose. He likes that I put time into a post but he says that he didn't agree with all the analysis, then why not elaborate on what you didn't agree with?
Oh and might I add:
On September 27 2013 05:37 heavenz wrote:
I wouldn't be surprised if there was a playerboy & stormtemplar mafia.
Right now I'm thinking about switching my vote to Bereft as his last post basically has 0 content and he votes on a "safe bet" just cause why not? It's easy to vote for a safe bet - you don't have to do any analysis, just sit back and watch people die.
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Votecount!
Blurry (4): Zaragon, onlywonderboy, Balla24, stormtemplar
Jayte (2): playerboy345, BajaBlood, Bereft
stormtemplar (2): JonnyLaw, heavenz
xIvanJ (0): BajaBlood
onlywonderboy (1): playerboy345
Not voting (4): Blurry, xIvanJ, Jayte, MLuneth
Currently, Blurry is set to be lynched. The deadline is in ~20 minutes. Remember, voting is mandatory, and only votes in the vote thread will be counted!
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Ok guys, back from work, you've got my complete attention until the deadline.
I am going to read through the case against stormtemplar and look through his history to see if I agree.
My read on Mluneth actually leans towards him being a misguided townie. It's not the most urgent topic we have right now since he doesn't seem to be at the top of the list, so I will write up why I think this sometime soon. But I don't think he should be the lynch candidate of the night.
If we're going to off an AFK, I think my choices are xIvanJ > Jeyte > Blurry - with the exception that any of these players who actually votes in time shouldn't be lynched. I'd tend to prefer to keep Blurry since people know his style and that will be helpful in evaluating him if he becomes unAFK. I think we are all assuming Ivan won't make it, and now it looks like Jayte is gone for good too. But then even Blurry seems like he might not be here in time....
Anyway, I've only got 20 mins to evaluate stormtemplar, so let me get started on that.
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I'm more comfortable with lynching MLuneth than with a player who has not been active at all. We might gain some information at the least.
##unvote
##Vote MLuneth
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the thing is mluneth might not even show up to vote either
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Oh damn, right as Baja posts. Oh well, I'll stay on Mluneth until the deadline nears. If Baja decides for stormtemplar I'm going back to that vote. I think both have been suspicious and we can gain information about the game based on lynching either of them.
Lynching inactives gives us what?
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MLuneth played oddly to say the least. I'm intrigued and think he could very well be mafia.
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Jonny, I won't have time to write this up in time for the vote, but if you want, quickly look through his history in the other mafia game he played and see what role he was and if you think he's playing similarly. I'll still summarize my thoughts for everyone else once I have time
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BajaBlood, does that mean you think he is indeed a dumb town?
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Yes, in his other game (as scum) he was very sheepy early on until he started getting accused, then got aggresively defensive (think the word they used in the thread was 'shitflinging', lol). Whereas in this game, he's making reads right off the bat and playing much more in-your-face.
I think his heavenz read was terrible, and a number of his other posts (including the question) are bizzare, but I'm not reading it as scum yet.
Plus if we keep him around and he is in fact scum I think we'll have an easier time classifying him then some other players
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Ugh sorry I got distracted in some SC2 games, didn't expect this much to happen, let me see if anything would change my mind. MLuneth was suspicious to me before but it didn't seem like anybody else agreed except Zaragon. I would be comfortable lynching him rather than stormtemplar, but I still think we need to be looking at these inactive people and not relying on the modkills.
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this is like the usual worst case, if we already have a few modkills, it might be insane to risk another mislynch.
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EBWOP: But I agree with Bajablood. Having him around Day2 seems like he will slip up again if he is indeed scum. Then again, he is the only real suspicious person besides the afkers.
##vote MLuneth
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Seems to be a no show as well, yes. This is really frustrating. Can't reevaluate the Stormtemplar case this quickly. Best we can do is MLuneth with cruddy activity in my opinion. I really want to see more from people like Stormtemplar before making a call on them.
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you're acting as if mluneth isn't an afker, not voting = modkilled/ replaced...
we have 4 people not voting tonight
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I'm not too comfortable with the MLuneth lynch to be honest, I really don't get that much of a scum read from him :/
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I'm not, I just don't have an alternative that I read scum who is voting... Hence "really frustrating"
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Well, MLuneth could be considered one of the inactive players since he has not voted.
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@heavenz yeah but he's less of an afker than the rest.. it's impossible to make a vote when all the suspects are fucking afk T_T
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Voting is closed, no posting till the daypost please!
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I really don't know what to do... we don't have any lurkers, just afk'ers. I'm not convinced on stormtemplar yet, though heavenz post on him resonated with me a bit. Like I've said, I'd rather keep MLuneth around as well
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I agree, MLuneth is not the optimal choice but he's semi-inactive and my stormtemplar vote would not go through anyway.
storm said he'd be back home soon to give us a reason to not vote him out next time. There is that part as well.
So much inactivity hurts when some players are putting in a lot of effort.
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Final Votecount:
+ Show Spoiler +Blurry (2): Zaragon, onlywonderboy, Balla24, stormtemplar
Jayte (2): playerboy345, BajaBlood, Bereft
stormtemplar (0): JonnyLaw, heavenz
xIvanJ (0): BajaBlood
onlywonderboy (1): playerboy345
MLuneth (4): Zaragon, JohnnyLaw, heavenz, Balla24
Not Voting: Not voting (4): Blurry, xIvanJ, Jayte, MLuneth
MLuneth, the 1-shot vig, was lynched!
You have ~24 hours to send in your night actions! Make sure they are sent to all three hosts.
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Just a bad townie indeed.
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I am sending out warnings to all of those that did not vote.
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this is redicioulus, just modkill jeyto, xIvanJ and Blurry, voting behavior is our biggest tell on day1, with them and Mluneth not voting, what's to say.
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Ugh, I really hoped MLuneth and Blurry both would show their alignment under pressure near the deadline after their posting, and neither showed up. Kind of negates the idea of pressure.
Ok time to read some filters.
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I'm going to catch some sleep, goodnight guys.
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Well I guess there isn't too much of a need for me to make the post explaining the Mluneth read at this point... I can still put it together if someone wants to see it, I suppose, but it's pretty much what I (really briefly) said in my last few posts.
I really hope these AFK'ers show up.
Sucks to lose the vig too (though god knows what MLuneth would have done with it, lol). Could have helped clear out some of these AFKs if we're going to have to wait another day.
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EBWOP: Actually, I guess since he was only a 1-shot maybe it'd be better to save it for later in the game. Not really important, I guess..
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Hey, I didn't realise that it was already night 1. I've just been really busy with my fraternity since we've been giving out our bids and everything. I'm really sorry about my inactivity. I wasn't lurking, I haven't even checked the thread since I last posted. I'll be able to read through everything tomorrow morning but I have a party to DJ tonight. I'll give my reads on EVERYONE before night 1 ends though.
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Ok going back I'm worried about a playerboy345 and Stormtemplar connection because of the tab on me and Stormtemplar here:
On September 26 2013 19:24 playerboy345 wrote:So my opinions after gazing through filters: + Show Spoiler [onlywonderboy] +He has added nothing to the game by far, his posts are just one-liners which are basically useless posts. Hopefully we'll hear some more of him soon The one thing I found a bit odd was that he clothed his opinions on MLuneth and heavenz/Bereft with arguments but the only thing he said about me was that I feel towny. I'm wondering why he didn't back this up with arguments like he did with the other cases. Overall I think he is town, but not using arguments and just saying "he feels town" is a bit weird in my opinion. (It feels so wrong to be suspicious of someone who called you town T_T) I think he is town, he made himself very clear on the lurker subject and asked me to elaborate when I wasn't clear enough. He also questioned the same thing I did - Zaragon not using arguments on his opinion of me. I haven't read anything of him yet that I could even consider a scumread, he just tries to force information out of others, like:
Also, with you all on Jaytee. Where'd he go? He was clearly here, so why the disappearance? Simply going inactive is a classic inexperienced mafia behavior, and at best he's an inactive townie, which is not good for us. Obviously he's done nothing scummy, but doing nothing is itself kinda scummy. He needs to show up and post so we can get some reads.
Only an one-liner so far, and a highly suspicious (imo) one at that I got nothing on him so far. On September 26 2013 16:58 heavenz wrote:
onlywounderboy: only oneliners, while I am not against one liners at all, just writing 1 liners lacks much content. He tries to show activness even though he has no content, perhaps he didn't know what to write in the beginning.
Now after 24h you should write more than 1 liners.
Zaragon: has my strongest town read so far.
Blurry is really falling behind expectation, that's weird. You really should post more.
lurkers:Jayte, xIvanJ
You both have to participate way more.
I agree with you on onlywonderboy. BUT the bolded part makes me a bit suspicious, you say Zaragon has your strongest town tell but you say nothing to back it up, same goes for Blurry. Please elaborate on this when you can. On September 26 2013 14:57 MLuneth wrote:
On my question, I'm a curious guy! I got lynched d3 and it's been several months since I last played, so I might be a little sketchy on some rules. What made you think it was a good idea to ask it in this thread? Wouldn't it make you an easy target for mafia or am I missing something here? And why are you going balls deep on heavenz? That's a pretty gutsy move. Your last posts basically says "I want to lynch heavenz!" without having a shitton of evidence to back it up with. I got nothing on him so far. His only post so far is on the lurker subject, it's not quite enough for me to have a tell on him. On September 26 2013 02:48 BajaBlood wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2013 01:20 JonnyLaw wrote:See, when more than 47 minutes have elapsed everyone in the game has posted something at least. Of those posters a couple stand out to me. At the moment I'm wary of Jayte and Mluneth. On September 25 2013 14:39 Jayte wrote:
It's game time. Mafia, put your hands up now. Since he joined the game this is his sole contribution. Meh...not trying to contribute, just posting to say he posted. Yeah, it's the shortest post so far, but I don't think he's alone in not having contributed any substance yet (myself included). Hopefully we'll start to see more contributions as our discussions turn more in this direction. Moving into discussions like this is probably more productive than the policy lynch, though - at least the guides say so On September 26 2013 09:51 BajaBlood wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2013 21:30 xIvanJ wrote:
0.o this has begun already? Dayuuum I just woke up!
I personally agree with Blurry, Playerboy345 and Stormtemplar we should NOT lynch lurkers on day1, it puts zero pressure on scum and will likely just clear out townies.. Not terribly impressed that this is the only post so far from this player... Asking for mercy on lurkers then proceeding to post nothing else. First he defends Jayte for having only one/a short post with no content and then he proceeds to attack xIvanJ for having only one post with no content. Am I the only one who thinks that's SUPER suspicious? I'll keep an eye on BajaBlood and Jayte for now. Don't got much on him so far, but nothing scummy. Like this post: On September 26 2013 11:37 Balla24 wrote:
I'm not really getting any bad vibes from anybody at this point. Really need to hear from the less talkative people at this point to get a read off of them. As far as town reads I'm liking Zaragon for sure, and maybee Bereft. Both of them have been quite active in trying to move the discussion forward and providing their reads. They have also been looking into other's past games which i think is quite helpful for us.
We just really need to hear from the quiet ones at this point though, they are really stalling the game and it's been a whole 24 hours. Some people have 1/2 posts only and have been quite weird. If we're not going to hear from them though, i'd like to hear a bit more from Heavenz now that some time has passed, maybe there are more insights about how people are acting first day compared to that last game they played together. Blurry specifically, as his opening post -> sudden quietness is worrying from what I hear so far about his play. Looks town to me. Only a one-liner so far, he has to post more.
It feels like a small detail to base a town read on, especially since some of the things I've heard on the Stormtemplar case were concerns I had marked in my mind to look into over time.
Also, the explanation feels contrived and worded overly strongly. Note playerboy's comment on Stormtemplar here:
"He also questioned the same thing I did - Zaragon not using arguments on his opinion of me. I haven't read anything of him yet that I could even consider a scumread, he just tries to force information out of others, like: "
This, with a quote of what I actually consider the fluffiest part I've seen from Stormtemplar:
"Also, with you all on Jaytee. Where'd he go? He was clearly here, so why the disappearance? Simply going inactive is a classic inexperienced mafia behavior, and at best he's an inactive townie, which is not good for us. Obviously he's done nothing scummy, but doing nothing is itself kinda scummy. He needs to show up and post so we can get some reads."
Looking into both of them now. Rethinking my personality read on playerboy a bit and rereading him. He also seemed quite certain at the last minute that we would see a green/blue flip:
On September 27 2013 06:58 playerboy345 wrote:
I'm not too comfortable with the MLuneth lynch to be honest, I really don't get that much of a scum read from him :/
Possible sign of information advantage used to gain town credit, at that timing. Have a lot of rereading to do, might not get through it tonight
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On September 27 2013 08:18 stormtemplar wrote:
Are we allowed to post analysis at night or do we have to wait for daytime?
Yes, you are allowed post during the night
On September 27 2013 07:00 Umasi wrote:
Voting is closed, no posting till the daypost please!
This was a typo, it should have read no posting until the nightpost.
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On September 27 2013 06:33 Bereft wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2013 06:32 playerboy345 wrote:
Bereft are you even serious right now? are you?
alright, now that i'm at a computer reading the thread in its entirety i realize how off point my post was in relation to the current thread of conversation at the time. during the weekday i'll always be in the office during the voting deadline unfortunately -- i was literally hiding in the bathroom posting from my phone at the time. but i'll be catching up on the thread now and thought dumping momentarily.
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here's my thought dump.
zaragon:
+ Show Spoiler +looking at his filter, right now he reads very pro-town, as he seems to be making an effort to keep the thread on track and provide transparency on his opinions and thought process on current players. BUT i do find his voting incongruous: On September 26 2013 04:24 Zaragon wrote:
No opinion on MLuneth. Actually, if he feels comfortable enough to throw that question out (and I think I can figure out what the question is actually asking), that's pretty towny to me by itself, just odd. I have no personality read on him as yet to back that up, though, so neutral to me. i was surprised that he of all people led the bandwagon on mluneth as i took the above comment as him interpreting mluneth's question to mean that he was vig. in addition, i find it odd that he says this: On September 27 2013 03:22 Zaragon wrote:
EBWOP: For clarity, I would like to push for Blurry right now since MLuneth is still participating, but I don't want us to set our votes on Blurry and not be able to change them if he comes in with good points. but then right at the last minute switches his vote to mluneth. On September 27 2013 06:40 Zaragon wrote:
Got caught up in an intriguing conversation with a friend, now the hour is late.
MLuneth is the only person who has posted considerable amounts that I would vote for. I don't know if he's bad town or scum either, it's strange to assert himself like he does as either town or scum and then not to be responding now. Feels like scum constructing a case and dropping off at suspicions.
I wanted to push Blurry to contribute, he hasn't. I'm comfortable switching off him for now since he doesn't even seem to be coming in to vote.
##Vote MLuneth please shed some light on what made you change your mind from voting for a lurker to an "active" participant. you initially say you prefer to vote for mluneth because he's still participating, but later change your vote because he disappeared from the thread while blurry didn't post anything either. i noticed you used the same argument when you FOS'ed blurry earlier in the day: On September 27 2013 01:53 Zaragon wrote:
Blurry... still nothing. Could have real life explanations, but I have a bad feeling he rolled scum, started working on his first post being as pro town as possible, then realized he didn't know how to follow up as scum. I want to vote for him the most out of the lurkers, to be honest. so would like to hear your explanation. i really want to believe you're town, but this contradicting behavior makes me wary.
heavenz:
+ Show Spoiler + town lean as well, for the moment. he's actively calling players out, applying pressure, and not afraid to share his opinions. will have no issue with him if he keeps up the current behavior.
balla24
+ Show Spoiler + this guy's coming off somewhat town atm. initially this post brought up a red flag: On September 26 2013 11:37 Balla24 wrote:
I'm not really getting any bad vibes from anybody at this point. Really need to hear from the less talkative people at this point to get a read off of them. As far as town reads I'm liking Zaragon for sure, and maybee Bereft. Both of them have been quite active in trying to move the discussion forward and providing their reads. They have also been looking into other's past games which i think is quite helpful for us.
We just really need to hear from the quiet ones at this point though, they are really stalling the game and it's been a whole 24 hours. Some people have 1/2 posts only and have been quite weird. If we're not going to hear from them though, i'd like to hear a bit more from Heavenz now that some time has passed, maybe there are more insights about how people are acting first day compared to that last game they played together. Blurry specifically, as his opening post -> sudden quietness is worrying from what I hear so far about his play. while i agree that it's hard to have a good scum read on someone at that point, he brings nothing new to this table with this post. all he says is we need to hear from the inactives. his comment on blurry seems to merely be an echo of what i (and zaragon i believe) said before. he posts some analysis afterwards which assuages some of my suspicious, but later on, like zaragon, also changes his mind from voting inactives to a more active scum read. not too apprehensive of this player at the moment, but i would like to hear his analysis on the current players.
brb gonna shower then read the rest of the filters
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United States23745 Posts
On September 27 2013 06:15 playerboy345 wrote:After rereading this: Show nested quote +On September 27 2013 04:26 onlywonderboy wrote:
Unfortunately I have to be getting to work, so I'll miss any last minute deliberations. I'm going to have to ##Vote: Blurry. He's had plenty of time to defend himself so I'm not sure a least minute appeal would change my mind. He sorta flew under the radar for me, but people have pointed out his lack of contribution I agree it seems problematic.
@JonnyLaw I'll respond to your inquiry when I have more time. Short version is I liked that he was putting the time into profile everyone, not that I really agreed with all the analysis. "Great" might have been too strong of a word I suppose. I feel onlywonderboy is the person I'm getting highest scum read from. He likes that I put time into a post but he says that he didn't agree with all the analysis, then why not elaborate on what you didn't agree with? He leaves with a vote on Blurry and says he'll post when he has more time, it's been two hours and he hasn't posted anything yet so my vote is on him. ##Vote onlywonderboy
I wrote that message 5 minutes before I had to leave for work, I simply didn't have enough time to express my thoughts in a way I was comfortable with. When I said I'd elaborate later I meant after the voting had taken place because I knew I was going to be at work all night. If it would have progressed further I was going to bring up the issue I had, but it was irrelevant as the debate focused mostly on other players.
The main one that stuck out to me was the BajaBlood read. I think the main reason he called out xIvanJ was because it was his only post AND it was a plea to not lynch lurkers. Seems more suspicious than the other post. Probably not enough to get a good read off of, but I'd say the two posts you cited were different.
Blurry was just a vote I thought was safe because I wasn't sure how everything was going to unfold while I was away. And boy did I not expect the turn of events that occurred. Sucks to lose a blue on night one. Not sure if I would have changed my vote, wish I would have been able to take place in the conversation.
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Dang, didn't think we could post during night. Cool ^_^
Just to shed some light on what I was thinking at the end of the day: I was already suspicious of MLuneth due to his posts earlier today. I didn't want to vote him initially because I was more suspicious of Blurry for his inactivity after his intro post (which was completely unlike him based on that other game). Once I realized that we might be wasting a lynch since he might get modkilled, I wanted to switch my target. MLuneth was the only person i was suspicious of at the time. I honestly wish I hadn't gotten distracted though and didn't have to rush my vote because re-reading through this I definitely made a mistake. If I could do it again, I would have stayed on Blurry but the modkill talk made me scared to waste the lynch. This might have been a good situation to no-lynch as well. You live and you learn I guess.
Regardless, we need to get Blurry, xIvanJ and Jayte active. Also, let's start the voting process earlier day 2 so we don't have to rush it. Blurry says he's going to post his thoughts before the end of the night so let's make sure we hold him to that.
As far as the active(ish) people:
I'm feeling pretty good about Bereft because even with the hasty vote and (not that I did any better) how he appears less interested than at the start. He also didn't hop on any bandwagons so there's that too, if he were mafia he probably would have hopped on the MLuneth bandwagon, especially since he picked up on the Vigi claim (i didn't pick that up, chalk it up to inexperience I guess).
I'm still not very convinced about stormtemplar. Waiting for his defense, he was here recently and should definitely be posting his defense. Hopefully, if he is scum, we can see some holes and I can hop on board the jonnylaw/heavenz train.
I really want to start making some actual scum reads here but with this lack of activity I just can't, which is why I think we won't be making a mistake going after the quiet people. xIvanJ and Jayte, and Blurry if he doesn't follow up on his promise tomorrow.
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johnny
+ Show Spoiler +while reading through the thread, i didn't like this guy. but reading his filter specifically, this post gives him a town read for now. i'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt for now, provided this type of analysis continues. + Show Spoiler +On September 27 2013 04:05 JonnyLaw wrote:+ Show Spoiler [Blurry] +His first post was good but not enough to give any read. I really hope he contributes something soon because his lack of participation is hurting the game and his chances of surviving the lynch. He's been active in trying to move discussion forward throughout the game. Feels okay to me for now. heavenz willingness to question people's reads puts him out there more than he may want at this point if he was scum. Again, seems all right to keep around for now. He's contributing and trying to force slips out of people. owb I've read most of your LOL material. You can write and critically think. WHAT did you like about playerboy's analysis in particular? What are your opinions on the other twelve players in this game? I'm not liking the read I'm getting here. stormtemplar is looking scummy to me. He writes a lot and yet says nothing. He's basically said he agrees zaragon might be town, he doesn't know about playerboy and death to all lurkers while telling others to contribute more to the thread. He's trying to misdirect and confuse discussion rather than forwarding it which I do not care for. Zaragon has been making similar reads to my own throughout the game and pushing for strong participation. He definitely feels more town than many others in the game. His willingness to focus on particular people could mean he's trying to get attention away from himself and the rest of the mafia but for now it's too early to say. I give him the benefit of the doubt. Balla24 reads fairly town. He's been agreeing with heavenz and Zaragon whom I also like for the town. I could be getting fooled here and there are two mafia in their threesome. For now, there's better options to lynch though. One outta 13 aint too bad boys. Hopefully our replacement can play. Could be lurking as a mafia. I just can't read him from the level of content he's put out. I want to call this guy scum from my gut. I really, really want to do it. But re-reading his posts just make me think he's a bit hasty and not scum at all. There are grammatical errors, shortened words and that half written post he managed to post. I dunno, he doesn't feel like mafia at this point in the game. Hasn't said a lot. Could be leaning mafia, but he's okay for now. I know he said he'd be busy but why is no one mentioning his inactivity? Still, not the best candidate for a lynch. Okay here's my summation. Blurry, bereft (who did say he would be busy), Jayte and xIvanJ are inactive. I still think we should look for a better lynch candidate for today. I like zaragon, balla24 and heavenz contribution but I might be getting fooled because they seem to agree quite often. But hell, they're reasonable opinions. Time to see where people cast their votes. I've read through stormtemplar's posts multiple times now. He literally says nothing in them. Show nested quote +Firstly, I hardly think the "Lurker topic" was irrelevant. It was the discussion starter and what was going on in the thread at the time. I hardly think you can throw that away as, rather undercutting your point about my lack of contribution. Clogging conversation after being accused of being scum. Show nested quote +However, as to your point about me just joining Zaragon on playerboy, no, not at all. As a matter of fact, I'm not really feeling zaragon's read on him. I'm not getting solid town vibes out of him at all. He's contributed rather minimally. (7 of his posts are 1-2 lines with maybe a quote.) I disagree and he's just trying to change the focus away from himself. Until he puts up a better defense of himself #vote stormtemplar
wonderboy
+ Show Spoiler +this guy's posting has been waaay subpar, especially coming from a TL writer! i want to call out this post in particular: On September 26 2013 22:29 onlywonderboy wrote:
I think I got scared into writing one liners due to people claiming we were going to lynch non-active people. But, tis true, I should have transitioned into writing more useful posts. This is still my first game so I'm trying to take a lot of it in. I have pretty much zero knowledge of everyone in this game so getting a read off of people on a relatively few number of pages is proving more difficult than I had hoped. That said, stand outs right now:
Jayte: Joke post to start off the game, hasn't contributed anything of value. Isn't trying to cause chaos in the town, but his absence is questionable. Mentions being busy with work, could just be throwing that out so we don't seem suspicious
MLuneth: Had that odd question to start, could have easily asked a coach instead of putting it in the thread.
playerboy: Great analysis of all the players. But, imo, it seemed like a post that was trying too hard to put the spotlight on "Hey, look, I'm helping the town!" I'm definitely not saying he should be a candidate for the first lynch, but just something to keep in mind in the future.
the threatened lynch on lurkers should make you one to SPEAK UP if anything, not post pointless one liners. also calls playerboy's post "great analysis", which i believe others have called out as well. what exactly did you find great? he hasn't clarified this but says he will. i'll be waiting to see what he says. his vote on blurry also seems like a 'safe' vote, in that other players (myself, zaragon to name a few) have already tossed blurry's name about as someone whose current posting is deviating from his pro-town posting in previous games. right now, i say wonderboy's a pretty decent candidate for the lynch.
playerboy
+ Show Spoiler +i find playerboy's argument against threatening to lynch lurkers and description on 'what mafia will do in that scenario' pretty bad and one dimensional. On September 25 2013 21:50 playerboy345 wrote:
After rereading the previous page I found this:
The only thing you CAN achieve with lynching lurkers is getting people to be more active, and I'm pretty sure we need to hunt scum, not force people to write meaningless posts. It puts literally ZERO pressure on the mafia, we need to be actively scumhunting - not lurkerhunting. [quote][QUOTE] On September 25 2013 23:22 playerboy345 wrote:If I were scum and town was going to lynch lurkers I wouldn't be scared at all, just jump on the bandwagon, provide some arguments and you're cool.[/quote] his arguments seem to improve as the thread goes on -- i'm getting really tired now so i'm starting to skim..will reread his filter and post more tomorrow -- but for now he seems to be genuine and making an effort, so i don't see him as a strong lynch candidate for d2 atm.
baja
+ Show Spoiler +as far as i can tell, this guy has only posted analysis on afk'ers. this is useless and pointless in my book. i don't take issue with the fact that he chose to go with a policy lynch for d1. however, if he doesn't start giving thoughts on the people actually participating in this game, i will find him suspicious.
stormtemplar
+ Show Spoiler +some people have been throwing this guy's name around, but looking through his filter i find nothing that screams a scum tell, but at the same time, nothing particularly memorable. for now he's not ranked high in my book
alright i'm fking tired and my analysis is getting shittier as it goes on. i'll need to reeval some of the filters tomorrow.
here's the tl;dr: i'd lean towards wonderboy followed by baja for d2 lynch given the current situation.
i didn't bother evaluating the afk'ers. blurry, i'm holding you to your promise to post! xIvanJ is a joke -- vig should just shoot him if we still have one. funny thing is now that i think about the ridiculous nature of jayte's posts, i suspect he's actually vanilla town...
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On September 27 2013 12:08 Balla24 wrote:
Dang, didn't think we could post during night. Cool ^_^
Just to shed some light on what I was thinking at the end of the day: I was already suspicious of MLuneth due to his posts earlier today. I didn't want to vote him initially because I was more suspicious of Blurry for his inactivity after his intro post (which was completely unlike him based on that other game). Once I realized that we might be wasting a lynch since he might get modkilled, I wanted to switch my target. MLuneth was the only person i was suspicious of at the time. I honestly wish I hadn't gotten distracted though and didn't have to rush my vote because re-reading through this I definitely made a mistake. If I could do it again, I would have stayed on Blurry but the modkill talk made me scared to waste the lynch. This might have been a good situation to no-lynch as well. You live and you learn I guess.
Regardless, we need to get Blurry, xIvanJ and Jayte active. Also, let's start the voting process earlier day 2 so we don't have to rush it. Blurry says he's going to post his thoughts before the end of the night so let's make sure we hold him to that.
As far as the active(ish) people:
I'm feeling pretty good about Bereft because even with the hasty vote and (not that I did any better) how he appears less interested than at the start. He also didn't hop on any bandwagons so there's that too, if he were mafia he probably would have hopped on the MLuneth bandwagon, especially since he picked up on the Vigi claim (i didn't pick that up, chalk it up to inexperience I guess).
I'm still not very convinced about stormtemplar. Waiting for his defense, he was here recently and should definitely be posting his defense. Hopefully, if he is scum, we can see some holes and I can hop on board the jonnylaw/heavenz train.
I really want to start making some actual scum reads here but with this lack of activity I just can't, which is why I think we won't be making a mistake going after the quiet people. xIvanJ and Jayte, and Blurry if he doesn't follow up on his promise tomorrow.
following your logic, if you switched to mluneth instead of blurry because you "didn't want to waste a lynch" on someone getting modkilled, how is targeting xlvanj and jayte any different since they'll also get modkilled/replaced if they don't vote again?
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balla, who's your biggest scum read at the moment? this is a pretty weak excuse
I really want to start making some actual scum reads here but with this lack of activity I just can't, which is why I think we won't be making a mistake going after the quiet people. xIvanJ and Jayte, and Blurry if he doesn't follow up on his promise tomorrow.
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On September 27 2013 12:21 Bereft wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2013 12:08 Balla24 wrote:
Dang, didn't think we could post during night. Cool ^_^
Just to shed some light on what I was thinking at the end of the day: I was already suspicious of MLuneth due to his posts earlier today. I didn't want to vote him initially because I was more suspicious of Blurry for his inactivity after his intro post (which was completely unlike him based on that other game). Once I realized that we might be wasting a lynch since he might get modkilled, I wanted to switch my target. MLuneth was the only person i was suspicious of at the time. I honestly wish I hadn't gotten distracted though and didn't have to rush my vote because re-reading through this I definitely made a mistake. If I could do it again, I would have stayed on Blurry but the modkill talk made me scared to waste the lynch. This might have been a good situation to no-lynch as well. You live and you learn I guess.
Regardless, we need to get Blurry, xIvanJ and Jayte active. Also, let's start the voting process earlier day 2 so we don't have to rush it. Blurry says he's going to post his thoughts before the end of the night so let's make sure we hold him to that.
As far as the active(ish) people:
I'm feeling pretty good about Bereft because even with the hasty vote and (not that I did any better) how he appears less interested than at the start. He also didn't hop on any bandwagons so there's that too, if he were mafia he probably would have hopped on the MLuneth bandwagon, especially since he picked up on the Vigi claim (i didn't pick that up, chalk it up to inexperience I guess).
I'm still not very convinced about stormtemplar. Waiting for his defense, he was here recently and should definitely be posting his defense. Hopefully, if he is scum, we can see some holes and I can hop on board the jonnylaw/heavenz train.
I really want to start making some actual scum reads here but with this lack of activity I just can't, which is why I think we won't be making a mistake going after the quiet people. xIvanJ and Jayte, and Blurry if he doesn't follow up on his promise tomorrow.
following your logic, if you switched to mluneth instead of blurry because you "didn't want to waste a lynch" on someone getting modkilled, how is targeting xlvanj and jayte any different since they'll also get modkilled/replaced if they don't vote again? Sorry I don't understand the question. Are you asking why I didn't switch to xIvanj or jayte instead of MLuneth?
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no, i'm saying if you switched to a more active player d1 because you didn't want to waste a lynch on someone getting modkilled, following that logic, why should we vote for xlvanj / jayte / blurry d2? i'm referring again in particular to this line:
I really want to start making some actual scum reads here but with this lack of activity I just can't, which is why I think we won't be making a mistake going after the quiet people. xIvanJ and Jayte, and Blurry if he doesn't follow up on his promise tomorrow.
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On September 27 2013 12:23 Bereft wrote:balla, who's your biggest scum read at the moment? this is a pretty weak excuse Show nested quote +I really want to start making some actual scum reads here but with this lack of activity I just can't, which is why I think we won't be making a mistake going after the quiet people. xIvanJ and Jayte, and Blurry if he doesn't follow up on his promise tomorrow.
I'm reading more into Bajablood's filter atm. He seems a bit sketchy. He's making empty promises:
- Saying he will analyze Stormtemplar in the 20 minutes before vote and post his thoughts and then not posting anything about him.
- Saying we had his full attention now that he was back from work and that he would post his thoughts on everybody when he has time. It's now getting close to sleep time for NA and still nothing (he is central time)
I also agree with you though, he seems to be analyzing the lurkers a lot, which is somewhat helpful but not nearly as helpful as the rest of the stuff he says he's going to do but doesn't.
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also, is this game like 90% euros or something? there's like no one to play with me when i'm able to get on, and lots of posting when i'm at work
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On September 27 2013 11:15 Bereft wrote:here's my thought dump. zaragon: + Show Spoiler +looking at his filter, right now he reads very pro-town, as he seems to be making an effort to keep the thread on track and provide transparency on his opinions and thought process on current players. BUT i do find his voting incongruous: On September 26 2013 04:24 Zaragon wrote:
No opinion on MLuneth. Actually, if he feels comfortable enough to throw that question out (and I think I can figure out what the question is actually asking), that's pretty towny to me by itself, just odd. I have no personality read on him as yet to back that up, though, so neutral to me. i was surprised that he of all people led the bandwagon on mluneth as i took the above comment as him interpreting mluneth's question to mean that he was vig. in addition, i find it odd that he says this: On September 27 2013 03:22 Zaragon wrote:
EBWOP: For clarity, I would like to push for Blurry right now since MLuneth is still participating, but I don't want us to set our votes on Blurry and not be able to change them if he comes in with good points. but then right at the last minute switches his vote to mluneth. On September 27 2013 06:40 Zaragon wrote:
Got caught up in an intriguing conversation with a friend, now the hour is late.
MLuneth is the only person who has posted considerable amounts that I would vote for. I don't know if he's bad town or scum either, it's strange to assert himself like he does as either town or scum and then not to be responding now. Feels like scum constructing a case and dropping off at suspicions.
I wanted to push Blurry to contribute, he hasn't. I'm comfortable switching off him for now since he doesn't even seem to be coming in to vote.
##Vote MLuneth please shed some light on what made you change your mind from voting for a lurker to an "active" participant. you initially say you prefer to vote for mluneth because he's still participating, but later change your vote because he disappeared from the thread while blurry didn't post anything either. i noticed you used the same argument when you FOS'ed blurry earlier in the day: On September 27 2013 01:53 Zaragon wrote:
Blurry... still nothing. Could have real life explanations, but I have a bad feeling he rolled scum, started working on his first post being as pro town as possible, then realized he didn't know how to follow up as scum. I want to vote for him the most out of the lurkers, to be honest. so would like to hear your explanation. i really want to believe you're town, but this contradicting behavior makes me wary. heavenz: + Show Spoiler + town lean as well, for the moment. he's actively calling players out, applying pressure, and not afraid to share his opinions. will have no issue with him if he keeps up the current behavior. balla24 + Show Spoiler + this guy's coming off somewhat town atm. initially this post brought up a red flag: On September 26 2013 11:37 Balla24 wrote:
I'm not really getting any bad vibes from anybody at this point. Really need to hear from the less talkative people at this point to get a read off of them. As far as town reads I'm liking Zaragon for sure, and maybee Bereft. Both of them have been quite active in trying to move the discussion forward and providing their reads. They have also been looking into other's past games which i think is quite helpful for us.
We just really need to hear from the quiet ones at this point though, they are really stalling the game and it's been a whole 24 hours. Some people have 1/2 posts only and have been quite weird. If we're not going to hear from them though, i'd like to hear a bit more from Heavenz now that some time has passed, maybe there are more insights about how people are acting first day compared to that last game they played together. Blurry specifically, as his opening post -> sudden quietness is worrying from what I hear so far about his play. while i agree that it's hard to have a good scum read on someone at that point, he brings nothing new to this table with this post. all he says is we need to hear from the inactives. his comment on blurry seems to merely be an echo of what i (and zaragon i believe) said before. he posts some analysis afterwards which assuages some of my suspicious, but later on, like zaragon, also changes his mind from voting inactives to a more active scum read. not too apprehensive of this player at the moment, but i would like to hear his analysis on the current players. brb gonna shower then read the rest of the filters
Lots of little things went wrong.
I'll break down my thought process:
I did read MLuneth as soft-claiming a role and wanted to draw attention away from it at first. That's partly why my instinct later went "huh, I've stopped paying attention to this guy since I'm just hoping he'll live through the night... and those things he's saying make absolutely no sense. But he's trying really hard to make a case with those things. Makes sense for that mindset to use the question to protect himself as scum." Suddenly why I wanted to keep him safe became why I really thought he was scum playing badly rather than town playing badly. No response felt like scum slipping under radar. He'd have had plenty of time to make any kind of defense, unfortunately he was never around again.
With the voting too. Blurry's opening post could be just pure newbie-friendliness, but it was clearly constructed whether he's town or scum, and he put it out there only to disappear (looks like he's back now). No explanation about being away or some such, just that block of what amounts to gameplay advice. I wanted to put some serious pressure on him since I read up on his last game, and have hopes for him as a strong town or a dangerous scum. That'd be how to figure out which, when the opening post was what it was. So I wanted to push Blurry, see what his alignment was, then either stay or go back on MLuneth. Neither player even appeared... So much for either part of that plan.
Up to you what you actually think of the plan. I'm berating myself for the mistake, though I'm not sure I even should: I firmly believe it would've been good play if I had any counter-push or at least activity from Blurry or MLuneth. Both were scummy and I expected both to be readable when pressured.
I've gone back to look at playerboy and Stormtemplar. Just the one oddity, but would like it explained by playerboy.
onlywonderboy give us reads please.
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On September 27 2013 12:26 Bereft wrote:no, i'm saying if you switched to a more active player d1 because you didn't want to waste a lynch on someone getting modkilled, following that logic, why should we vote for xlvanj / jayte / blurry d2? i'm referring again in particular to this line: Show nested quote +
I really want to start making some actual scum reads here but with this lack of activity I just can't, which is why I think we won't be making a mistake going after the quiet people. xIvanJ and Jayte, and Blurry if he doesn't follow up on his promise tomorrow.
Because they didn't get modkilled so they still have the chance to show up. I mean if we want to just assume they aren't gonna show up again and thus get modkilled that's fine but I still think we need to pressure them. If they are gonna play they need to play. And i'm not saying we should vote for them but pressure them. Let's not waste too much time on it though, but we should definitely be bringing it up every few posts so that they have higher chance to see the pressure.
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On September 27 2013 12:30 Bereft wrote:also, is this game like 90% euros or something? there's like no one to play with me when i'm able to get on, and lots of posting when i'm at work
I think so T_T. I think there is a total of like... 3 or 4 NA players. Me, you, onlywonderboy(i think) and maybe someone else.
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United States23745 Posts
[QUOTE]On September 27 2013 12:13 Bereft wrote:
johnny
+ Show Spoiler +while reading through the thread, i didn't like this guy. but reading his filter specifically, this post gives him a town read for now. i'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt for now, provided this type of analysis continues. + Show Spoiler +On September 27 2013 04:05 JonnyLaw wrote:+ Show Spoiler [Blurry] +His first post was good but not enough to give any read. I really hope he contributes something soon because his lack of participation is hurting the game and his chances of surviving the lynch. He's been active in trying to move discussion forward throughout the game. Feels okay to me for now. heavenz willingness to question people's reads puts him out there more than he may want at this point if he was scum. Again, seems all right to keep around for now. He's contributing and trying to force slips out of people. owb I've read most of your LOL material. You can write and critically think. WHAT did you like about playerboy's analysis in particular? What are your opinions on the other twelve players in this game? I'm not liking the read I'm getting here. stormtemplar is looking scummy to me. He writes a lot and yet says nothing. He's basically said he agrees zaragon might be town, he doesn't know about playerboy and death to all lurkers while telling others to contribute more to the thread. He's trying to misdirect and confuse discussion rather than forwarding it which I do not care for. Zaragon has been making similar reads to my own throughout the game and pushing for strong participation. He definitely feels more town than many others in the game. His willingness to focus on particular people could mean he's trying to get attention away from himself and the rest of the mafia but for now it's too early to say. I give him the benefit of the doubt. Balla24 reads fairly town. He's been agreeing with heavenz and Zaragon whom I also like for the town. I could be getting fooled here and there are two mafia in their threesome. For now, there's better options to lynch though. One outta 13 aint too bad boys. Hopefully our replacement can play. Could be lurking as a mafia. I just can't read him from the level of content he's put out. I want to call this guy scum from my gut. I really, really want to do it. But re-reading his posts just make me think he's a bit hasty and not scum at all. There are grammatical errors, shortened words and that half written post he managed to post. I dunno, he doesn't feel like mafia at this point in the game. Hasn't said a lot. Could be leaning mafia, but he's okay for now. I know he said he'd be busy but why is no one mentioning his inactivity? Still, not the best candidate for a lynch. Okay here's my summation. Blurry, bereft (who did say he would be busy), Jayte and xIvanJ are inactive. I still think we should look for a better lynch candidate for today. I like zaragon, balla24 and heavenz contribution but I might be getting fooled because they seem to agree quite often. But hell, they're reasonable opinions. Time to see where people cast their votes. I've read through stormtemplar's posts multiple times now. He literally says nothing in them. Show nested quote +Firstly, I hardly think the "Lurker topic" was irrelevant. It was the discussion starter and what was going on in the thread at the time. I hardly think you can throw that away as, rather undercutting your point about my lack of contribution. Clogging conversation after being accused of being scum. Show nested quote +However, as to your point about me just joining Zaragon on playerboy, no, not at all. As a matter of fact, I'm not really feeling zaragon's read on him. I'm not getting solid town vibes out of him at all. He's contributed rather minimally. (7 of his posts are 1-2 lines with maybe a quote.) I disagree and he's just trying to change the focus away from himself. Until he puts up a better defense of himself #vote stormtemplar
wonderboy
+ Show Spoiler +this guy's posting has been waaay subpar, especially coming from a TL writer! i want to call out this post in particular: On September 26 2013 22:29 onlywonderboy wrote:
I think I got scared into writing one liners due to people claiming we were going to lynch non-active people. But, tis true, I should have transitioned into writing more useful posts. This is still my first game so I'm trying to take a lot of it in. I have pretty much zero knowledge of everyone in this game so getting a read off of people on a relatively few number of pages is proving more difficult than I had hoped. That said, stand outs right now:
Jayte: Joke post to start off the game, hasn't contributed anything of value. Isn't trying to cause chaos in the town, but his absence is questionable. Mentions being busy with work, could just be throwing that out so we don't seem suspicious
MLuneth: Had that odd question to start, could have easily asked a coach instead of putting it in the thread.
playerboy: Great analysis of all the players. But, imo, it seemed like a post that was trying too hard to put the spotlight on "Hey, look, I'm helping the town!" I'm definitely not saying he should be a candidate for the first lynch, but just something to keep in mind in the future.
the threatened lynch on lurkers should make you one to SPEAK UP if anything, not post pointless one liners. also calls playerboy's post "great analysis", which i believe others have called out as well. what exactly did you find great? he hasn't clarified this but says he will. i'll be waiting to see what he says. his vote on blurry also seems like a 'safe' vote, in that other players (myself, zaragon to name a few) have already tossed blurry's name about as someone whose current posting is deviating from his pro-town posting in previous games. right now, i say wonderboy's a pretty decent candidate for the lynch.
playerboy
+ Show Spoiler +i find playerboy's argument against threatening to lynch lurkers and description on 'what mafia will do in that scenario' pretty bad and one dimensional. On September 25 2013 21:50 playerboy345 wrote:
After rereading the previous page I found this:
The only thing you CAN achieve with lynching lurkers is getting people to be more active, and I'm pretty sure we need to hunt scum, not force people to write meaningless posts. It puts literally ZERO pressure on the mafia, we need to be actively scumhunting - not lurkerhunting. Show nested quote +On September 25 2013 23:22 playerboy345 wrote:
If I were scum and town was going to lynch lurkers I wouldn't be scared at all, just jump on the bandwagon, provide some arguments and you're cool. his arguments seem to improve as the thread goes on -- i'm getting really tired now so i'm starting to skim..will reread his filter and post more tomorrow -- but for now he seems to be genuine and making an effort, so i don't see him as a strong lynch candidate for d2 atm.
baja
+ Show Spoiler +as far as i can tell, this guy has only posted analysis on afk'ers. this is useless and pointless in my book. i don't take issue with the fact that he chose to go with a policy lynch for d1. however, if he doesn't start giving thoughts on the people actually participating in this game, i will find him suspicious.
stormtemplar
+ Show Spoiler +some people have been throwing this guy's name around, but looking through his filter i find nothing that screams a scum tell, but at the same time, nothing particularly memorable. for now he's not ranked high in my book
alright i'm fking tired and my analysis is getting shittier as it goes on. i'll need to reeval some of the filters tomorrow.
here's the tl;dr: i'd lean towards wonderboy followed by baja for d2 lynch given the current situation.
i didn't bother evaluating the afk'ers. blurry, i'm holding you to your promise to post! xIvanJ is a joke -- vig should just shoot him if we still have one. funny thing is now that i think about the ridiculous nature of jayte's posts, i suspect he's actually vanilla town...
Writing about LoL is nothing like writing for this game lol. It's like a completely different set of mental tools when it comes to analysis. I guess my point is the skills aren't a 1-1 transfer ratio so I'm still adjusting.
I think I accidentally dug myself into a hole when I used the word "great." I liked the post, mostly because he included everyone (even if he didn't have much to say) and was a good place to start a lot of discussion. Knowing the type of game this is and how super analytical people are expected to be, I should have been more careful with my word choice.
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@onlywonderboy, I mean you're only digging yourself into even more of a hole by defending it so much. If you're town you have nothing to hide. Then again people keep bringing it up. Let's hear your reads. Who is most scum to you? What do you think of everything Bereft has been saying etc.
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United States23745 Posts
On September 27 2013 12:50 Balla24 wrote:
@onlywonderboy, I mean you're only digging yourself into even more of a hole by defending it so much. If you're town you have nothing to hide. Then again people keep bringing it up. Let's hear your reads. Who is most scum to you? What do you think of everything Bereft has been saying etc.
You're right, I'm probably trying too hard to defend myself. Although, as town, I'd have nothing to hide, but I wouldn't want to get lynched and hurt the rest of the town.
I'm going to bed soon, I want to reread everything before making any claims, want to make sure I'm careful with my reads.
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Alright I'm heading off to bed.
Onlywonderboy is feeling very scummy to me. He's overly defensive about a small detail and wayyy to conservative with his posts/reads. He is being directly asked for reads an isn't providing anything.
Let me know what you guys think... i'll be back in ~10 hours.
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I'll be back in a few hours as well to check the logs again. I'll give my updated opinions at that point.
Glad to see a couple awols might make it back into the game.
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On September 27 2013 08:20 Zaragon wrote:This, with a quote of what I actually consider the fluffiest part I've seen from Stormtemplar: "Also, with you all on Jaytee. Where'd he go? He was clearly here, so why the disappearance? Simply going inactive is a classic inexperienced mafia behavior, and at best he's an inactive townie, which is not good for us. Obviously he's done nothing scummy, but doing nothing is itself kinda scummy. He needs to show up and post so we can get some reads." Looking into both of them now. Rethinking my personality read on playerboy a bit and rereading him. He also seemed quite certain at the last minute that we would see a green/blue flip: Show nested quote +On September 27 2013 06:58 playerboy345 wrote:
I'm not too comfortable with the MLuneth lynch to be honest, I really don't get that much of a scum read from him :/ Possible sign of information advantage used to gain town credit, at that timing. Have a lot of rereading to do, might not get through it tonight
What do you mean with fluffy? English is not my first language and I really don't understand what the hell that word has to do in that sentence >.<
There were more people who didn't agree with the MLuneth lynch, in my opinion he really didn't seem all that scummy, I was expecting him to flip town which was why I was against voting him. There wasn't really a good case on him other then his posts being odd.
Would love to hear from you when you're done rereading me, I'll gladly defend anything you throw at me.
On September 27 2013 12:13 Bereft wrote:+ Show Spoiler [onlywonderboy] + owb I've read most of your LOL material. You can write and critically think. WHAT did you like about playerboy's analysis in particular? What are your opinions on the other twelve players in this game? I'm not liking the read I'm getting here. stormtemplar + Show Spoiler +some people have been throwing this guy's name around, but looking through his filter i find nothing that screams a scum tell, but at the same time, nothing particularly memorable. for now he's not ranked high in my book alright i'm fking tired and my analysis is getting shittier as it goes on. i'll need to reeval some of the filters tomorrow. here's the tl;dr: i'd lean towards wonderboy followed by baja for d2 lynch given the current situation. i didn't bother evaluating the afk'ers. blurry, i'm holding you to your promise to post! xIvanJ is a joke -- vig should just shoot him if we still have one. funny thing is now that i think about the ridiculous nature of jayte's posts, i suspect he's actually vanilla town...
Thank god I'm not the only one that thinks onlywonderboy is suspicious/stormtemplar doesn't look that scummy. I was getting worried :/
I'll look into BajaBlood's filter later today.
So far I'm really suspicious of onlywonderboy, his last few posts aren't that good, they add nothing to the table, he said he would post reads after rereading everything/waking up so I'm interested to see what he will provide us with.
Sorry for the half-assed post, I just woke up and getting ready to go to school, will probably be able to post during the whole day.
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On September 27 2013 16:22 playerboy345 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2013 08:20 Zaragon wrote:This, with a quote of what I actually consider the fluffiest part I've seen from Stormtemplar: "Also, with you all on Jaytee. Where'd he go? He was clearly here, so why the disappearance? Simply going inactive is a classic inexperienced mafia behavior, and at best he's an inactive townie, which is not good for us. Obviously he's done nothing scummy, but doing nothing is itself kinda scummy. He needs to show up and post so we can get some reads." Looking into both of them now. Rethinking my personality read on playerboy a bit and rereading him. He also seemed quite certain at the last minute that we would see a green/blue flip: On September 27 2013 06:58 playerboy345 wrote:
I'm not too comfortable with the MLuneth lynch to be honest, I really don't get that much of a scum read from him :/ Possible sign of information advantage used to gain town credit, at that timing. Have a lot of rereading to do, might not get through it tonight What do you mean with fluffy? English is not my first language and I really don't understand what the hell that word has to do in that sentence >.< There were more people who didn't agree with the MLuneth lynch, in my opinion he really didn't seem all that scummy, I was expecting him to flip town which was why I was against voting him. There wasn't really a good case on him other then his posts being odd. Would love to hear from you when you're done rereading me, I'll gladly defend anything you throw at me. Show nested quote +On September 27 2013 12:13 Bereft wrote:+ Show Spoiler [onlywonderboy] + owb I've read most of your LOL material. You can write and critically think. WHAT did you like about playerboy's analysis in particular? What are your opinions on the other twelve players in this game? I'm not liking the read I'm getting here. stormtemplar + Show Spoiler +some people have been throwing this guy's name around, but looking through his filter i find nothing that screams a scum tell, but at the same time, nothing particularly memorable. for now he's not ranked high in my book alright i'm fking tired and my analysis is getting shittier as it goes on. i'll need to reeval some of the filters tomorrow. here's the tl;dr: i'd lean towards wonderboy followed by baja for d2 lynch given the current situation. i didn't bother evaluating the afk'ers. blurry, i'm holding you to your promise to post! xIvanJ is a joke -- vig should just shoot him if we still have one. funny thing is now that i think about the ridiculous nature of jayte's posts, i suspect he's actually vanilla town... Thank god I'm not the only one that thinks onlywonderboy is suspicious/stormtemplar doesn't look that scummy. I was getting worried :/ I'll look into BajaBlood's filter later today. So far I'm really suspicious of onlywonderboy, his last few posts aren't that good, they add nothing to the table, he said he would post reads after rereading everything/waking up so I'm interested to see what he will provide us with. Sorry for the half-assed post, I just woke up and getting ready to go to school, will probably be able to post during the whole day.
People like to use "fluff" for long phrases that don't say much, I use "fluffy" as an adjective as a joke in Mafia games because I feel it's kinder (cute animal associations; yes, I'm weird).
Good, you fit with my town image of you again from this post, too much about you tells me "town eager to solve the game" for anything else at this point. A language quirk is enough to explain the oddity I found.
onlywonderboy, please give us something. Don't be careful. Since you're new and not sure what you should be typing or not, it's better to type more, concise thoughts about the game. People will be picking at your phrasings, but we will assume you're scum if you don't say much, don't give reads, and write constructed posts. That's how a lot of scum play.
I'd say the same to Stormtemplar by now.
And our lurkers.
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United States23745 Posts
+ Show Spoiler [Blurry] + My vote for the first night, mostly due to his in activeness. Still hasn't posted very much so it's hard to get a good read. Claims he's going to do an analysis later so hopefully that will possibly give home more insight into his allegiance.
+ Show Spoiler [Playerboy345] +All his posts have a strong town vibe. He's going after people he think are scum and making good arguments against them. I thought using his first vote on me was odd as it wasn't likely to change everyone's mind in such a short period of time. No real signs of being a scum, but I want to keep my eye on him. If he is scum, he's in a position where a lot of people seem to be listening to him.
+ Show Spoiler [Heavenz] +Decent amount of participation, seems town enough. Was questioned when people called him out for his town read on me, had a good response that was well reasoned
+ Show Spoiler [JonnyLaw] +I'm torn on my opinion of Jonny. He had a really good read on MLuneth where he pretty much called him as being a bad townie, but he switched his vote to MLuneth without much debate. He claimed we would gain more information lynching MLuenth instead of a lurker, but it was pretty much a crap shoot either way
+ Show Spoiler [Stormtemplar] + Seems the scummiest of the active players. Had opinions on the topic of “lynching lurkers,” but a lot of his other posts are just agreements and questions without posting his own analysis. Says he's busy so we'll see how the rest of his posts develop, but I'm feeling scum at the moment.
+ Show Spoiler [Zaragon] +Was feeling scum at first since he was the first person to bring MLuneth into the vote, but his post breaking down what happened at the lynch deadline was well thought out and made rational sense. Could have been a good cover up. I'm gonna stay neural here and see how the game develops
+ Show Spoiler [Balla24] +Another one I'm wary of. Didn't contribute much at first, but stepped up right before and after the lynch. Him and playerboy seem to be in agreement on a lot of things. I already mentioned I wanted to keep and eye on him, so by proxy it's a good idea to keep an eye on Balla.
+ Show Spoiler [XivanJ] +
+ Show Spoiler [Jayte] +
+ Show Spoiler [BajaBlood] +Also brought up the idea of MLuneth being a misguided townie. Timing was a little more suspicious, happened right before the lynch when people were starting to lean towards MLuneth. Could have been him trying to gain townie cred before MLuneth was killed
+ Show Spoiler [Bereft] +Probably a slight town read, calling people out and asking questions. Not much to say really.
That's all I got right now. While I think we should certainly keep the discussion going, throwing out day 2 lynch candidates is a bit premature right now. The night actions of the game could easily change the landscape of the game drastically.
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Reasonable, dulls my scum feeling of you somewhat.
I'm concerned about JonnyLaw now too. He's reading very tense to me. Worried about lurker pressure at the start--very worried very fast, I don't see the reason for that.
Joining the Stormtemplar case with very nitpicky points to substantiate his case.
Joining my case on MLuneth at the end doesn't mean anything, unfortunately, unless we would know Stormtemplar and MLuneth were both town or that someone besides heavenz was protecting Blurry.
Balla, Baja are reading neutral to me at this point.
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5 minute lunchtime update:
I honestly agree with a fair amount of the criticism I've been getting - I need to step up my level of play. Particularly early-mid Day 1 I was too focused on lurkers and not on making reads / pushing on active players. I think Day 2 will go better, since it will be a weekend and I'll have more time to do more analysis (I'll be getting home a couple after the nightpost goes up today). In the meantime, feel free to keep pushing me on this if you don't believe I'm making adequate contributions.
On the other hand, I don't think it's fair to characterize my defense of MLuneth as a suspiciously timed town-cred move. I studied him while he was active, but didn't feel it was urgent to write it up ahead of the deadline (wanted to read up on stormtemplar to see if I wanted to change my vote - turns out I didn't, and can expand on that later). There were no votes for MLuneth when I started my first post after getting back from work, one occurred while I was typing my first post, and everything I wrote in his defense came before the third vote was cast (i.e. when he actually became likely to get lynched).
To be honest, I found it odd how quickly that snowballed, despite a few of us protesting. I will spend some time looking into this.
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Thank you onlywonderboy. I like that you are going against the popular opinions in the thread. You aren't just looking at someone's reads and agreeing with them (on Zaragon and myself especially). I like the point you bring up about Bajablood somewhat, but I find it interesting that you don't say the same thing about playerboy here before the vote: I'm not too comfortable with the MLuneth lynch to be honest, I really don't get that much of a scum read from him :/
Right now i'm more interested in Bajablood, and I was just pressuring you so that you would actually post your reads. I'm pretty neutral on you. Bajablood keeps saying he's busy, and I believe him, but he also keeps saying he's going to do things and then doesn't do them.
Not that my opinion on this matter is new, but i'd just like to reiterate it so that maybe you (Bajablood) can make some time when you get back from work after day post to post some analysis.
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Also decent list and decent points. Not afraid to agree with me even under pressure about following (doesn't help you guys obviously, but it does me, knowing I'm town). I'd have expected more subtle support and diversions for him from fellow scum if he is scum. Neutral for me now.
But I will note, listing opinions on all the players is just a tool. Please don't use it as a crutch, everyone. A lot of the time it's better to phrase yourself shorter and with more focus; helps others read you. Scum can hide behind lists pretty easily by just casting slight suspicion on town and softening anything they would have found suspicious about fellow scum so it has no edge to it. Lists don't put much pressure on anyone so it lets you omit a scum buddy very easily.
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Alright it's the end of night 1 and still nothing from Blurry (who said he would post a full analysis by the end of the night) and the other guys, xIvanJ and Jayte.
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So I've been reading through this thread once again and I saw something that striked me as odd and wanted to post it here and hear your thoughts on it.
On September 27 2013 03:08 Zaragon wrote:
I like the emotion in Bereft's posts, even if I can see them translate to a scum mindset. But I like Bereft as a busy townie so far.
MLuneth or Blurry IMO. Xlvanj is just a policy lynch, Jayte said something half-way decent that is non-indicative to me.
MLuneth is trying to make cases that simply contradict pro town play, as if he's against contribution or meta information and talking about "clogging up" a thread that is only 9 pages as I'm writing this. It needs more contribution, not less.
Blurry I want to see write, and give a thought process behind his first post. And input on MLuneth.
Currently,
##Vote Blurry
On September 27 2013 04:26 onlywonderboy wrote:
Unfortunately I have to be getting to work, so I'll miss any last minute deliberations. I'm going to have to ##Vote: Blurry. He's had plenty of time to defend himself so I'm not sure a least minute appeal would change my mind. He sorta flew under the radar for me, but people have pointed out his lack of contribution I agree it seems problematic.
@JonnyLaw I'll respond to your inquiry when I have more time. Short version is I liked that he was putting the time into profile everyone, not that I really agreed with all the analysis. "Great" might have been too strong of a word I suppose.
On September 27 2013 04:41 Balla24 wrote:
Alright, it's been almost 3 1/2 hours since my post. Still no sign of the lurkers.
@JonnyLaw I'm not sold on stormtemplar's behavior being scummy. I would like to both hear more from you about it on why you think his posts have been scummy and also stormtemplar's defense. But at this point I'm not really reading scum from his posts besides the fact that he hasn't really shared tooo much about his reads and has just been going off of others. At least he is disagreeing with people which I like.
With that said. We are almost 2 hours from voting and none of the inactive people have shown their faces. We have been asking for them to talk for 2 days now and nothing. Now which one should we lynch? Here i'm going to have to go with ##Vote: Blurry. He started off with a good 1st day post (very early in the game mind you), and then nothing for 2 days straight. Not only is this completely different from his previous game (which I don't think carries too much weight) but he just doesn't seem interested.
One last thing though. Both him and xIvan have only posted once and people are saying xIvan is probably going to get modkilled...would Blurry then also get modkilled?
These three vote for Blurry, why?
Zaragon votes him based on Blurry's meta. In the previous game Blurry had a good opening post much like in this game, the difference between this game and the previous game is that in the previous game Blurry continued to contribute and in the current game he didn't. This is just such an easy thing to pick on - the reason that he hasn't really contributed that much is because he has been inactive.
onlywonderboy picks it as a safe bet because he won't be able to be online for the deadline.
I don't understand why Balla24 is voting for Blurry here though, he didn't seem all that interested in Blurry before, so why pick him over Jayte/xIvanJ who are just as inactive as Blurry.
On September 27 2013 06:40 Zaragon wrote:
Got caught up in an intriguing conversation with a friend, now the hour is late.
MLuneth is the only person who has posted considerable amounts that I would vote for. I don't know if he's bad town or scum either, it's strange to assert himself like he does as either town or scum and then not to be responding now. Feels like scum constructing a case and dropping off at suspicions.
I wanted to push Blurry to contribute, he hasn't. I'm comfortable switching off him for now since he doesn't even seem to be coming in to vote.
##Vote MLuneth
On September 27 2013 06:55 Balla24 wrote:
EBWOP: But I agree with Bajablood. Having him around Day2 seems like he will slip up again if he is indeed scum. Then again, he is the only real suspicious person besides the afkers.
##vote MLuneth
Why is Zaragon comfortable with switching his vote? He says it's because Blurry doesn't seem to be coming to vote. Guess who else didn't come to vote? MLuneth. So why change your vote? Why not just keep it on Blurry as your case seems to be the same on both of them?
Also:
On September 27 2013 12:31 Zaragon wrote:
I did read MLuneth as soft-claiming a role and wanted to draw attention away from it at first. That's partly why my instinct later went "huh, I've stopped paying attention to this guy since I'm just hoping he'll live through the night... and those things he's saying make absolutely no sense. But he's trying really hard to make a case with those things. Makes sense for that mindset to use the question to protect himself as scum." Suddenly why I wanted to keep him safe became why I really thought he was scum playing badly rather than town playing badly. No response felt like scum slipping under radar. He'd have had plenty of time to make any kind of defense, unfortunately he was never around again.
In this post you claim you read his post as soft-claiming vigi. WHY THE HELL WOULD YOU EVER VOTE FOR HIM IF YOU HAD EVEN THE SLIGHTEST DOUBT THAT HE COULD BE A VIGI? This makes 0 sense to me, no fucking clue what you were thinking here. Why didn't you just leave your vote on Blurry if that was the case?
Also note that Balla24 switches his vote to MLuneth aswell. He says he's the only suspicious person besides the afkers, while I can agree that his posting was indeed odd, it doesn't explain his sudden switch. He agrees with BajaBlood:
On September 27 2013 06:53 BajaBlood wrote:
Yes, in his other game (as scum) he was very sheepy early on until he started getting accused, then got aggresively defensive (think the word they used in the thread was 'shitflinging', lol). Whereas in this game, he's making reads right off the bat and playing much more in-your-face.
I think his heavenz read was terrible, and a number of his other posts (including the question) are bizzare, but I'm not reading it as scum yet.
Plus if we keep him around and he is in fact scum I think we'll have an easier time classifying him then some other players
What BajaBlood says is don't lynch MLuneth because if he is scum it'll be easy to tell. WHY DO YOU VOTE HIM IF YOU AGREE THAT LETTING HIM LIVE FOR ANOTHER DAY WILL MAKE IT EASY TO TELL IF HE IS SCUM OR NOT? I'm sorry but that just makes absolutely 0 sense to me.
onlywonderboy: You say Blurry flew under the radar for you and that is why you voted him. Then what about the other inactives, you are not gonna tell me they didn't flew under the radar, right? So why DID you vote for Blurry? Were you in a hurry because you had to leave and left with a half-assed post? Or did you just decide to vote for him because your mafia teammates (assuming both Balla24 and Zaragon are scum) did so you could boost the votes in your favor?
I don't got much proof and this is basically just theorycrafting but I think Zaragon/Balla24/onlywonderboy might be our scum combo.
Let me know what you guys think.
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I've been working on this for a shitton of time, I'm tired and gotta work tomorrow so I'm heading to bed, might not be able to post tomorrow till 11pmish GMT+1 (and I might not post then either if I'm really tired). Hopefully I'll be able to post/read though, I really want to know what you guys think of my theory.
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Some thoughts, I'll try to add more as time goes on:
+ Show Spoiler [Zaragon] +The most consistent pro-town voice in the thread so far. Actually to the point where I would second-guess this read if he wasn't targeted tonight, because I'm not sure why anyone would disagree. This read would get even stronger if no one dies tonight, because then I'm assuming both scum and medic are thinking the same. Obviously, I disagree with his Mluneth vote, but since it was the first vote and had more analysis behind it than later votes, it doesn't bother me that much
+ Show Spoiler [heavenz & Balla24 on MLuneth] +I'm still trying to process this bandwagon - it happened seemingly out of nowhere (little explanation and right before the deadline). It sounded like heavenz argument was better to lynch a somewhat suspicious afk'er than risk a mislynch on a suspicious active player? Is that an accurate summation of what you were thinking, Heavenz?
Balla24 couldn't seem to explain his reasoning and had to claim it was a mistake (the post where he agrees with me then votes Mluneth was particularly baffling). I'm willing to accept that for now, since it is his first game and I can't really be intolerant of active-but-misguided players when I'm hoping for tolerance on that front as well.
Ugh, my gut wants me to be suspicious of the bandwagon, but from the rest of the thread I'm getting a moderate town read on heavenz and slight town on Balla, so it might be best for me to let it go. Plus even though it was a bad lynch, it's not like the situation was providing us with many better options...
+ Show Spoiler [Lurkers] +Wait, you were expecting me to write more about lurkers after all that?
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EBWOP - hahaha me and playerboy writing the exact opposite thing about zaragon at the same time. I'll take a look in a couple hours when I'm back from the gym
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Silence Pls! Daypost incoming.
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United States23745 Posts
I thought xIvanJ was going to get mod killed, saw a couple people post about that possibility and made the mistake of not being 100% familiar with the rules. Between Jayte and Blurry it was just a toss up, could have gone either way since I didn't have much info on either of them. I wouldn't say it was a half-assed post because I had to work, just that (like you said) I wanted to be fairly conservative with my vote since I wasn't going to be around.
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DAY 2
A new day has dawned.
Bereft, the roleblocker was found dead!
D2 voting deadline is in .
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In my summation I said I wanted to consider Mluneth scum very badly because of the odd nature of his posts. He sat right below stormtemplar on my list of scum to lynch. His ignorant townie vibe and inactivity felt like a perfect ruse under which to hide rolling mafia. About 20 minutes before the voting deadline it was clear stormtemplar would not be lynched but I saw an opportunity to puruse MLuneth so I jumped on the chance. I felt, and still feel that lynching inactives who claim they will become active is wasting our lynch.
Bottom line is that we need more information and lynching an inactive player is not going to give us anything. And as for nervous posting, well not being able to edit a post is very hard. I read and reread what I have written and then post it and realize I have more on my mind.
I'll get back to my reads in another post shortly but I want to look more into why someone wanted bereft out of the game.
Which questions do we need to ask to read into it more?
He voted jayte rather early and stuck with the vote. This is not a very good tell for anything in my opinion. He criticized myself a bit, and balla very harshly. Is this trying to be a clever ruse to try and start a bandwagon against balla? I'll look at it more as I go through the filters.
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On September 28 2013 06:57 playerboy345 wrote:Also note that Balla24 switches his vote to MLuneth aswell. He says he's the only suspicious person besides the afkers, while I can agree that his posting was indeed odd, it doesn't explain his sudden switch. He agrees with BajaBlood: Show nested quote +On September 27 2013 06:53 BajaBlood wrote:
Yes, in his other game (as scum) he was very sheepy early on until he started getting accused, then got aggresively defensive (think the word they used in the thread was 'shitflinging', lol). Whereas in this game, he's making reads right off the bat and playing much more in-your-face.
I think his heavenz read was terrible, and a number of his other posts (including the question) are bizzare, but I'm not reading it as scum yet.
Plus if we keep him around and he is in fact scum I think we'll have an easier time classifying him then some other players What BajaBlood says is don't lynch MLuneth because if he is scum it'll be easy to tell. WHY DO YOU VOTE HIM IF YOU AGREE THAT LETTING HIM LIVE FOR ANOTHER DAY WILL MAKE IT EASY TO TELL IF HE IS SCUM OR NOT? I'm sorry but that just makes absolutely 0 sense to me.
I wouldn't call my switch sudden. I started off that morning describing why I thought MLuneth was suspicious. During the voting process, we were at a point in time where people were saying that Blurry, xIvanJ and Jayte were going to get modkilled for sure. I was agreeing with Bajablood on this post:
On September 27 2013 06:42 BajaBlood wrote:
My read on Mluneth actually leans towards him being a misguided townie. It's not the most urgent topic we have right now since he doesn't seem to be at the top of the list, so I will write up why I think this sometime soon. But I don't think he should be the lynch candidate of the night.
However not on the last sentence obviously since I ended up voting him. At the time of my EBWOP with the vote (i had meant to vote in my previous post already) I hadn't even seen the post that you quoted and was simply posting what was going through my head. In the end, I decided to vote him because I thought he was scummy (for the reasons I had opened the morning with), nobody else appeared scummy and the inactives were going to get modkilled. Like I said, it probably would have been better to go for a no-lynch (not probably, for sure would have been better) but I chalk that up to inexperience.
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On September 28 2013 06:57 playerboy345 wrote:So I've been reading through this thread once again and I saw something that striked me as odd and wanted to post it here and hear your thoughts on it. Show nested quote +On September 27 2013 03:08 Zaragon wrote:
I like the emotion in Bereft's posts, even if I can see them translate to a scum mindset. But I like Bereft as a busy townie so far.
MLuneth or Blurry IMO. Xlvanj is just a policy lynch, Jayte said something half-way decent that is non-indicative to me.
MLuneth is trying to make cases that simply contradict pro town play, as if he's against contribution or meta information and talking about "clogging up" a thread that is only 9 pages as I'm writing this. It needs more contribution, not less.
Blurry I want to see write, and give a thought process behind his first post. And input on MLuneth.
Currently,
##Vote Blurry Show nested quote +On September 27 2013 04:26 onlywonderboy wrote:
Unfortunately I have to be getting to work, so I'll miss any last minute deliberations. I'm going to have to ##Vote: Blurry. He's had plenty of time to defend himself so I'm not sure a least minute appeal would change my mind. He sorta flew under the radar for me, but people have pointed out his lack of contribution I agree it seems problematic.
@JonnyLaw I'll respond to your inquiry when I have more time. Short version is I liked that he was putting the time into profile everyone, not that I really agreed with all the analysis. "Great" might have been too strong of a word I suppose. Show nested quote +On September 27 2013 04:41 Balla24 wrote:
Alright, it's been almost 3 1/2 hours since my post. Still no sign of the lurkers.
@JonnyLaw I'm not sold on stormtemplar's behavior being scummy. I would like to both hear more from you about it on why you think his posts have been scummy and also stormtemplar's defense. But at this point I'm not really reading scum from his posts besides the fact that he hasn't really shared tooo much about his reads and has just been going off of others. At least he is disagreeing with people which I like.
With that said. We are almost 2 hours from voting and none of the inactive people have shown their faces. We have been asking for them to talk for 2 days now and nothing. Now which one should we lynch? Here i'm going to have to go with ##Vote: Blurry. He started off with a good 1st day post (very early in the game mind you), and then nothing for 2 days straight. Not only is this completely different from his previous game (which I don't think carries too much weight) but he just doesn't seem interested.
One last thing though. Both him and xIvan have only posted once and people are saying xIvan is probably going to get modkilled...would Blurry then also get modkilled? These three vote for Blurry, why? Zaragon votes him based on Blurry's meta. In the previous game Blurry had a good opening post much like in this game, the difference between this game and the previous game is that in the previous game Blurry continued to contribute and in the current game he didn't. This is just such an easy thing to pick on - the reason that he hasn't really contributed that much is because he has been inactive. onlywonderboy picks it as a safe bet because he won't be able to be online for the deadline. I don't understand why Balla24 is voting for Blurry here though, he didn't seem all that interested in Blurry before, so why pick him over Jayte/xIvanJ who are just as inactive as Blurry. Show nested quote +On September 27 2013 06:40 Zaragon wrote:
Got caught up in an intriguing conversation with a friend, now the hour is late.
MLuneth is the only person who has posted considerable amounts that I would vote for. I don't know if he's bad town or scum either, it's strange to assert himself like he does as either town or scum and then not to be responding now. Feels like scum constructing a case and dropping off at suspicions.
I wanted to push Blurry to contribute, he hasn't. I'm comfortable switching off him for now since he doesn't even seem to be coming in to vote.
##Vote MLuneth Show nested quote +On September 27 2013 06:55 Balla24 wrote:
EBWOP: But I agree with Bajablood. Having him around Day2 seems like he will slip up again if he is indeed scum. Then again, he is the only real suspicious person besides the afkers.
##vote MLuneth Why is Zaragon comfortable with switching his vote? He says it's because Blurry doesn't seem to be coming to vote. Guess who else didn't come to vote? MLuneth. So why change your vote? Why not just keep it on Blurry as your case seems to be the same on both of them? Also: Show nested quote +On September 27 2013 12:31 Zaragon wrote:
I did read MLuneth as soft-claiming a role and wanted to draw attention away from it at first. That's partly why my instinct later went "huh, I've stopped paying attention to this guy since I'm just hoping he'll live through the night... and those things he's saying make absolutely no sense. But he's trying really hard to make a case with those things. Makes sense for that mindset to use the question to protect himself as scum." Suddenly why I wanted to keep him safe became why I really thought he was scum playing badly rather than town playing badly. No response felt like scum slipping under radar. He'd have had plenty of time to make any kind of defense, unfortunately he was never around again. In this post you claim you read his post as soft-claiming vigi. WHY THE HELL WOULD YOU EVER VOTE FOR HIM IF YOU HAD EVEN THE SLIGHTEST DOUBT THAT HE COULD BE A VIGI? This makes 0 sense to me, no fucking clue what you were thinking here. Why didn't you just leave your vote on Blurry if that was the case? Also note that Balla24 switches his vote to MLuneth aswell. He says he's the only suspicious person besides the afkers, while I can agree that his posting was indeed odd, it doesn't explain his sudden switch. He agrees with BajaBlood: Show nested quote +On September 27 2013 06:53 BajaBlood wrote:
Yes, in his other game (as scum) he was very sheepy early on until he started getting accused, then got aggresively defensive (think the word they used in the thread was 'shitflinging', lol). Whereas in this game, he's making reads right off the bat and playing much more in-your-face.
I think his heavenz read was terrible, and a number of his other posts (including the question) are bizzare, but I'm not reading it as scum yet.
Plus if we keep him around and he is in fact scum I think we'll have an easier time classifying him then some other players What BajaBlood says is don't lynch MLuneth because if he is scum it'll be easy to tell. WHY DO YOU VOTE HIM IF YOU AGREE THAT LETTING HIM LIVE FOR ANOTHER DAY WILL MAKE IT EASY TO TELL IF HE IS SCUM OR NOT? I'm sorry but that just makes absolutely 0 sense to me. onlywonderboy: You say Blurry flew under the radar for you and that is why you voted him. Then what about the other inactives, you are not gonna tell me they didn't flew under the radar, right? So why DID you vote for Blurry? Were you in a hurry because you had to leave and left with a half-assed post? Or did you just decide to vote for him because your mafia teammates (assuming both Balla24 and Zaragon are scum) did so you could boost the votes in your favor? I don't got much proof and this is basically just theorycrafting but I think Zaragon/Balla24/onlywonderboy might be our scum combo. Let me know what you guys think.
I said from the start I might want to swap back to MLuneth. I explained my plan of pressuring Blurry and MLuneth, and I stand by that I felt both were scummy. As I said the plan collapsed because neither of them came in to say a thing or even vote. I never even considered MLuneth might not show up for it, and I only thought it was a remote possibility Blurry might not. What was I supposed to do in that situation? Imagine you had the same reads and the same plan.
I thought MLuneth was mafia.
I was sure I could town-read him early in a defense under pressure, if he was just bad town.
What was my motivation as scum to swap my vote? It doesn't make sense. I could've NKed MLuneth if I had been scum and role-read him. I play with incomplete information as town, and made a mistake (again, largely because these players didn't even show up to play the game).
Your post, again, is something oddly timed right as night phase was ending, but I'm not sure yet what else to read into it. I'd welcome input on both you and myself.
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 [g]is there an obs qt I can get access to?[/g]
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The more I read playerboy345's filter the more I think he is mafioso.
Let me start from a couple days ago. In his write up on the players he claims
+ Show Spoiler [stormtemplar] +I think he is town, he made himself very clear on the lurker subject and asked me to elaborate when I wasn't clear enough.
He also questioned the same thing I did - Zaragon not using arguments on his opinion of me. I haven't read anything of him yet that I could even consider a scumread, he just tries to force information out of others.
At this point stormtemplar is yet to be confronted by anyone. Yet storm and playerboy casually agree with each other on a few points later. This means nothing if you think stormtemplar is town, which I do not believe.
Fine, more evidence for you non-believers.
On September 27 2013 06:41 playerboy345 wrote:Oh and might I add: Show nested quote +On September 27 2013 05:37 heavenz wrote:
I wouldn't be surprised if there was a playerboy & stormtemplar mafia.
Right now I'm thinking about switching my vote to Bereft as his last post basically has 0 content and he votes on a "safe bet" just cause why not? It's easy to vote for a safe bet - you don't have to do any analysis, just sit back and watch people die.
He drops this subject and even goes so far as to praise bereft for his good read on onlywonderboy a few short hours later.
On September 27 2013 16:22 playerboy345 wrote:
Thank god I'm not the only one that thinks onlywonderboy is suspicious/stormtemplar doesn't look that scummy. I was getting worried :/
I'll look into BajaBlood's filter later today.
I feel like he's trying to lay the blame elsewhere when bereft comes up dead in the morning.
In bereft's last reads he's pressuring balla slightly and pushing playerboy a little bit. A couple posts ago I said myself as well but I was wrong when I reread the lines.
All of this combined with his very timely post before we lynched MLuneth make me very suspicious. Note that was posted two minutes before the deadline. He had three other posts in the thirty minutes prior so clearly he was around at the lynch deadline and only chose to express his opinion once it was too late and did not elaborate as to why he felt that way.
On September 27 2013 06:58 playerboy345 wrote:
I'm not too comfortable with the MLuneth lynch to be honest, I really don't get that much of a scum read from him :/
Oh yeah, that onlywonderboy vote was odd when clearly he was not going to be lynched. There was time to jump on the blurry bandwagon easily. This may have swayed people to stay on blurry instead of going to MLuneth. It just doesn't add up.
Zaragon expressed his views on why lynching MLuneth more articulately than I managed. Where he felt like blurry was a good pressure target, I felt similarly with stormtemplar. Blurry was never active so I didn't see an incentive to push him. Storm had been fairly active so I still think I had a very good target for pressure and lynching if he did not respond well enough. When the time came, not enough of you agreed with me.
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I'm definitely not saying it's towny for people to swap the votes, by the way, it can be scummy if either Stormtemplar or Blurry is scum and someone wanted to save them. Scum wouldn't care much about swinging the vote otherwise or they would just divide themselves not to look suspect.
Except everyone didn't even vote. I'm trying to figure out how significant this is.
On Bereft dying, it was probably a good kill since he looked very towny, did stick on Jayte in the voting fiasco and might not be a doctor save.
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EBWOP: Why lynching MLuneth was the right decision.
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I'm still just reading stormtemplar oddly by the way. His little write up claims Zaragon and bereft as pro-town which not a lot of people have been arguing yet.
He gives me a hard time, basically repeating what "pro town zaragon" said a couple posts earlier. This is fair enough since I tried to have him lynched.
Then he tries to separate himself from playerboy.
And for the rest he essentially says nothing or repeats what other have said in a non-accusatory manner. I just think he wants to fly under the radar and get attention away from the ties he had to playerboy and anything to do with bereft. A "he's town I wouldn't dislike him!" type of post.
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On September 28 2013 08:25 JonnyLaw wrote:The more I read playerboy345's filter the more I think he is mafioso. Let me start from a couple days ago. In his write up on the players he claims + Show Spoiler [stormtemplar] +I think he is town, he made himself very clear on the lurker subject and asked me to elaborate when I wasn't clear enough.
He also questioned the same thing I did - Zaragon not using arguments on his opinion of me. I haven't read anything of him yet that I could even consider a scumread, he just tries to force information out of others. At this point stormtemplar is yet to be confronted by anyone. Yet storm and playerboy casually agree with each other on a few points later. This means nothing if you think stormtemplar is town, which I do not believe. Fine, more evidence for you non-believers. Show nested quote +On September 27 2013 06:41 playerboy345 wrote:Oh and might I add: On September 27 2013 05:37 heavenz wrote:
I wouldn't be surprised if there was a playerboy & stormtemplar mafia.
Right now I'm thinking about switching my vote to Bereft as his last post basically has 0 content and he votes on a "safe bet" just cause why not? It's easy to vote for a safe bet - you don't have to do any analysis, just sit back and watch people die. He drops this subject and even goes so far as to praise bereft for his good read on onlywonderboy a few short hours later. Show nested quote +On September 27 2013 16:22 playerboy345 wrote:
Thank god I'm not the only one that thinks onlywonderboy is suspicious/stormtemplar doesn't look that scummy. I was getting worried :/
I'll look into BajaBlood's filter later today.
I feel like he's trying to lay the blame elsewhere when bereft comes up dead in the morning. In bereft's last reads he's pressuring balla slightly and pushing playerboy a little bit. A couple posts ago I said myself as well but I was wrong when I reread the lines. All of this combined with his very timely post before we lynched MLuneth make me very suspicious. Note that was posted two minutes before the deadline. He had three other posts in the thirty minutes prior so clearly he was around at the lynch deadline and only chose to express his opinion once it was too late and did not elaborate as to why he felt that way. Show nested quote +On September 27 2013 06:58 playerboy345 wrote:
I'm not too comfortable with the MLuneth lynch to be honest, I really don't get that much of a scum read from him :/ Oh yeah, that onlywonderboy vote was odd when clearly he was not going to be lynched. There was time to jump on the blurry bandwagon easily. This may have swayed people to stay on blurry instead of going to MLuneth. It just doesn't add up. Zaragon expressed his views on why lynching MLuneth more articulately than I managed. Where he felt like blurry was a good pressure target, I felt similarly with stormtemplar. Blurry was never active so I didn't see an incentive to push him. Storm had been fairly active so I still think I had a very good target for pressure and lynching if he did not respond well enough. When the time came, not enough of you agreed with me.
This is a good case, you substantiated the oddity from before with a lot more meat that I missed.
I also noticed in his filter that he pointedly asks people to elaborate on town reads, and pressures them for not doing so. How does that help town? It puts targets on people's backs. "I'm leaning/feeling town" is good enough to say you currently like someone's posting/opinions/motivations/emotions, and giving more is often actually not very good for town. Pressuring people about town reads, I don't see how that helps town. Someone having too strong town reads--playerboy on Stormtemplar based on little, but carefully pushed little--is much more of a scum tell. Sign of knowing this person is town, or protecting a scum team mate.
My read on you JonnyLaw is significantly less scummy now, and playerboy significantly more.
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Can I be replaced. I'm just swamped with work. No way I can actively contribute to this game.
I will say, going forward, you guys should look at those who switched their vote from me to myluneth. This is a pretty scummy bandwagon switch so it may be a solid yield to follow.
Apart from that, look at who Bereft was accusing. This may be a null lead because he may have just been the best contributer thus far but it may be something to go off of.
My gut feeling is at least 2 of the scum were voting for either me or myluneth because we were easy bandwagon targets. I think its weird that Zara claimed he was voting to pressure me to say something. Thats weird play and I don't necessarily agree with that.
I'm sorry I couldn't be a bigger help but RL being what it is, sometimes it just happens. I have to go because I'm setting up to dj a party but I'll check back in a bit to see if I get replaced or not.
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Blurry, if you're town. Day 1, not much solid to go on. Imagine someone you knew to be a good town player drop the post you did and then not contribute at all, no note to say they were busy or away. Would you expect it from them as a player, as town?
Been looking at Bereft, could have been on to playerboy and/or Stormtemplar. Looking into Balla right now. onlywonderboy who Bereft didn't like then, I had the same issues with, but he provided decent content when pressured. Neutral for me.
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(Don't mean to attack you, mate, for having RL obligations. But while you're still in the game...)
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Neither BajaBlood or Balla are giving me distinct scum feelings from their filters, pretty neutral, and tangential to me compared to playerboy and Stormtemplar
Baja had a good contribution about MLuneth:
On September 27 2013 06:53 BajaBlood wrote:
Yes, in his other game (as scum) he was very sheepy early on until he started getting accused, then got aggresively defensive (think the word they used in the thread was 'shitflinging', lol). Whereas in this game, he's making reads right off the bat and playing much more in-your-face.
I think his heavenz read was terrible, and a number of his other posts (including the question) are bizzare, but I'm not reading it as scum yet.
Plus if we keep him around and he is in fact scum I think we'll have an easier time classifying him then some other players
If it had been just a little earlier than 7 minutes before the deadline, I think it would've saved MLuneth from lynch.
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Hey stormtemplar no need to get so defensive. The point of this game is to find mafia. I happen to think you're part of the scum. When you're so angry it doesn't change my mind at all.
I was waiting on day 1 for you to make a post or say something that changed my opinion it didn't happen. I'm still waiting for that to happen to be honest. I don't want to lynch townies, but when someone seems scummy it's the perfect opportunity to get the town ahead with a good read.
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Alright, I wasn't posting to let the stormtemplar/jonnylaw conversation continue a little while. I wasn't digging stormtemplar for mafia, and i'm still not really sure. He responds to jonnylaw's pressure well IMO. I don't think he seemed angry and he brings up the point of him bussing playerboy early on (if both were mafia).
I want to bring up the first posts of his where he brings up playerboy:
+ Show Spoiler +However, as to your point about me just joining Zaragon on playerboy, no, not at all. As a matter of fact, I'm not really feeling zaragon's read on him. I'm not getting solid town vibes out of him at all. He's contributed rather minimally. (7 of his posts are 1-2 lines with maybe a quote.) Show nested quote +Lol you got a good point on Jayte, didn't a scum in the previous newbie mafia game start with a similar line?
I have to disagree on your MLuneth "read" though, yes he might not be adding much to the game with that post but there really wasn't much to discuss when he posted it other then your opinion on lynching/not lynching lurkers.
Though the question is indeed a bit weird, I mean it wouldn't make any sense if he was NOT scum to ask such a question because that would be an easy blue kill night 1 for mafia, or am I missing something here?
Maybe he can clear it up when he gets online, I am quite interested in how he will defend the question. This is his one good post, but it's not really doing much more then throwing around short opinions on jonnylaw's reads. There is that one bit of really weird logic at the end (It's scum because any non-scum asking that question must be a town roleblocker, therefore they wouldn't post it? Kinda shaky and weird.)
This is after he has been pressured by Heavenz already a little bit. He appears neutral on playerboy, he seems like he doesn't want to commit to him being town but doesn't want to push him too hard here. Only after he has multiple people on him (Heavenz, Jonnylaw) does he really turn the heat up on playerboy. IMO, this could conceivably be a bus, albeit a bad one.
With all that being said, I don't think it is. Playerboy and stormtemplar's posting angles have been completely different, althought stormtemplar has been under pretty heavy pressure all game long so he's been focusing on defending himself. I don't think they are both mafia (either one or the other), but I definitely don't want to leave the possibility off the table that they are. One last thing on the stormtemplar/playerboy subject (and another reason I don't think they are scum together). Stormtemplar completely dismisses playerboy's recent post as scum without even a second thought (more on my thoughts on the post later) just because he goes against Zaragon. No elaboration here, but he continues to call him useless even though playerboy's post at least brings up something that was relevant at the time, the voting patterns.
Now let me preface this by repeating the fact that I believe I made a mistake in voting on day 1, I should have voted for a no-lynch when everything came to pass, and I definitely should have noticed the blue claim. We've talked about it already and both Zaragon and I have given our reasoning. I find it odd that playerboy pretty much disregards what we said during the night and looks only at the day 1 events. But that could also just be good town play by not letting possible scum targets talk their way out of a slip. I think the post had good-intentions by looking at the voting pattern objectively and finding mob voters but the end of that day was hectic and I don't think you are taking that into account. I'm not sure what the angle would be as scum to post that though (i'm tired as fuck right now and i've been re-reading everything in night1 for ages), maybe to discredit Zaragon and I as townies since we got a blue role lynched. I'm gonna give it some more thought and definitely need to see more opinions on it when I have a fresh mind.
Lastly, I've been looking through filters for any kind of alliances or non-alliances whether they seem scummy or not (meaning I wasn't looking at content for scumminess, just rather who has disagreed/agreed with each other).
Jonnylaw and Heavenz
Stormtemplar or Jonnylaw
Stormtemplar or Playerboys
Zaragon and Jonnylaw
Zaragon or Bajablood
Heavenz and onlywonderboy
Maybe it can be helpful or maybe not. Just thought it would be interesting to see. Unfortunately it's getting late so I'm going to have to leave it at that. I was going to look at each of these pairs and see how they fit with the Bereft kill. But at first glance, it looks like Bereft might have just been a "strong-townie" kill that was not likely to be healed by doc since it was quite obvious that Zaragon was going to receive the heal. Looks like a safe kill.
Anyways, I'm tired as fuck and this probably doesn't even amke any sense so goodnight T_T.
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On September 28 2013 14:52 Balla24 wrote:Alright, I wasn't posting to let the stormtemplar/jonnylaw conversation continue a little while. I wasn't digging stormtemplar for mafia, and i'm still not really sure. He responds to jonnylaw's pressure well IMO. I don't think he seemed angry and he brings up the point of him bussing playerboy early on (if both were mafia). I want to bring up the first posts of his where he brings up playerboy: + Show Spoiler +However, as to your point about me just joining Zaragon on playerboy, no, not at all. As a matter of fact, I'm not really feeling zaragon's read on him. I'm not getting solid town vibes out of him at all. He's contributed rather minimally. (7 of his posts are 1-2 lines with maybe a quote.) Show nested quote +Lol you got a good point on Jayte, didn't a scum in the previous newbie mafia game start with a similar line?
I have to disagree on your MLuneth "read" though, yes he might not be adding much to the game with that post but there really wasn't much to discuss when he posted it other then your opinion on lynching/not lynching lurkers.
Though the question is indeed a bit weird, I mean it wouldn't make any sense if he was NOT scum to ask such a question because that would be an easy blue kill night 1 for mafia, or am I missing something here?
Maybe he can clear it up when he gets online, I am quite interested in how he will defend the question. This is his one good post, but it's not really doing much more then throwing around short opinions on jonnylaw's reads. There is that one bit of really weird logic at the end (It's scum because any non-scum asking that question must be a town roleblocker, therefore they wouldn't post it? Kinda shaky and weird.) This is after he has been pressured by Heavenz already a little bit. He appears neutral on playerboy, he seems like he doesn't want to commit to him being town but doesn't want to push him too hard here. Only after he has multiple people on him (Heavenz, Jonnylaw) does he really turn the heat up on playerboy. IMO, this could conceivably be a bus, albeit a bad one. With all that being said, I don't think it is. Playerboy and stormtemplar's posting angles have been completely different, althought stormtemplar has been under pretty heavy pressure all game long so he's been focusing on defending himself. I don't think they are both mafia (either one or the other), but I definitely don't want to leave the possibility off the table that they are. One last thing on the stormtemplar/playerboy subject (and another reason I don't think they are scum together). Stormtemplar completely dismisses playerboy's recent post as scum without even a second thought (more on my thoughts on the post later) just because he goes against Zaragon. No elaboration here, but he continues to call him useless even though playerboy's post at least brings up something that was relevant at the time, the voting patterns. Now let me preface this by repeating the fact that I believe I made a mistake in voting on day 1, I should have voted for a no-lynch when everything came to pass, and I definitely should have noticed the blue claim. We've talked about it already and both Zaragon and I have given our reasoning. I find it odd that playerboy pretty much disregards what we said during the night and looks only at the day 1 events. But that could also just be good town play by not letting possible scum targets talk their way out of a slip. I think the post had good-intentions by looking at the voting pattern objectively and finding mob voters but the end of that day was hectic and I don't think you are taking that into account. I'm not sure what the angle would be as scum to post that though (i'm tired as fuck right now and i've been re-reading everything in night1 for ages), maybe to discredit Zaragon and I as townies since we got a blue role lynched. I'm gonna give it some more thought and definitely need to see more opinions on it when I have a fresh mind. Lastly, I've been looking through filters for any kind of alliances or non-alliances whether they seem scummy or not (meaning I wasn't looking at content for scumminess, just rather who has disagreed/agreed with each other). Jonnylaw and Heavenz Stormtemplar or Jonnylaw Stormtemplar or Playerboys Zaragon and Jonnylaw Zaragon or Bajablood Heavenz and onlywonderboy Maybe it can be helpful or maybe not. Just thought it would be interesting to see. Unfortunately it's getting late so I'm going to have to leave it at that. I was going to look at each of these pairs and see how they fit with the Bereft kill. But at first glance, it looks like Bereft might have just been a "strong-townie" kill that was not likely to be healed by doc since it was quite obvious that Zaragon was going to receive the heal. Looks like a safe kill. Anyways, I'm tired as fuck and this probably doesn't even amke any sense so goodnight T_T.
I'm starting to read Stormtemplar somewhat less scum as well.
First defense speech, it's what I would expect; there isn't much to do except bussing your scum buddy if they overdo a town read on you. Second speech, I filter dove Stormtemplar again. Heavenz interpreted something Stormtemplar said as if Stormtemplar would be ready to follow playerboy's lead, when Stormtemplar in reality was questioning playerboy being towny as his very first read. And questioning me regarding my read on playerboy, at the same time. Meaning Heavenz interpretation of Stormtemplar at the start was flawed. Referenced section here:
On September 26 2013 16:58 heavenz wrote:onlywounderboy: only oneliners, while I am not against one liners at all, just writing 1 liners lacks much content. He tries to show activness even though he has no content, perhaps he didn't know what to write in the beginning. Now after 24h you should write more than 1 liners. Zaragon: has my strongest town read so far. Blurry is really falling behind expectation, that's weird. You really should post more. lurkers:Jayte, xIvanJ You both have to participate way more. Stormtemplar is to me the most suspicious. He has 3 posts, 2 of which are about the lurker topic, and then the only relevant post Show nested quote +@Zaragon: I agree on bereft, he's been active, contributing and putting out strategy ideas and generally behaving as one would expect a townie to behave. I also feel the same as you about heavenz: we just don't have enough to get a solid read one way or the other.
Playerboy though, I'd like to hear more about this. What makes him seem town to you? I'm not really getting much one way or the other.
Also, with you all on Jaytee. Where'd he go? He was clearly here, so why the disappearance? Simply going inactive is a classic inexperienced mafia behavior, and at best he's an inactive townie, which is not good for us. Obviously he's done nothing scummy, but doing nothing is itself kinda scummy. He needs to show up and post so we can get some reads. While this isn't a scummy post in itself, but it's not useful either. He just joins in on Zaragon's reads, and calls out a lurker. Asks Playerboy on his ideas (probably so he can just join them in again, if they find appeal, and again gives zero reads from himself). Imho scummy.
A lot of the things that followed seemed to spring from Stormtemplar's frustration. Of course, possibly, even as scum, this could arise from being pinned as scum over a misunderstanding early on and some misinterpretations of his joke about playerboy's reads. I doubt it, though
I have no reason as yet to think Heavenz deliberately misunderstood in this context, but it makes a playerboy/Stormtemplar scum team a lot less likely (accounting for ripple effects and him having to be on the defense). Someone's first hesitant read playing as scum is unlikely to be that they don't find their scum buddy convincing. I could buy that he'd distance himself from a scum buddy addressing me if he's going to follow me, but that seems unlikely too--only mentioning he finds playerboy neutral, without attaching any other reads?
At the moment I like playerboy most for scum. Twice now the timing of his posts, end day and end night, has really felt scummy, as if he knows what to do to set himself up for the following phase. Certainty that indicates information advantage of scum, to me. I'm assuming scum would come up with a case to discredit me for the coming day since they were betting on Bereft, and it was a long and constructed one that could be for that purpose. He just missed the little detail that I was the first interested in Blurry as well as MLuneth and thus have nothing to gain from the whole swing vote for myself if I were scum, or any potential scum linked to me. Which ought to be a pretty massive detail if he were actually town making the case. Not so obvious from the scum perspective.
I need to get back to sleep, but it will be interesting to see opinions on this. Looking at other options tomorrow (including the real possibility of scum lurkers just sitting the game out, and different swing vote possibilities).
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if he were town he wouldn't have such issues answering simle questions and didn't have to come it with excuses "was joke soso, low battery can't post, plx no kill me, i post moar i swears"
Zargan, that you indirectly imply that I mistook his word for what it was and not a silly joke on purpose makes you scummy.
onlywounderboy is certainly Mafia
btw I was roleblocked
In what order are the nightactions processed? First town or first mafia?
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you receive the notification of roleblock regardless of beeing able to make a nightaction or not, it doesn't say much about my role.
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On September 28 2013 16:32 heavenz wrote:
In what order are the nightactions processed? First town or first mafia?
Natural action resolution is used. This means that between two kinds of actions, say, A and B, if A has the potential to affect the outcome of B, then A is applied before B. For example, any and all attempts at protection are applied before any and all attempts to kill.
The alignment of the players performing the actions has no impact on ordering.
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On September 28 2013 16:32 heavenz wrote:
if he were town he wouldn't have such issues answering simle questions and didn't have to come it with excuses "was joke soso, low battery can't post, plx no kill me, i post moar i swears"
Zargan, that you indirectly imply that I mistook his word for what it was and not a silly joke on purpose makes you scummy.
onlywounderboy is certainly Mafia
btw I was roleblocked
In what order are the nightactions processed? First town or first mafia?
Heavenz, you did misunderstand him once when his phrasing was clear. The second time with the joke, that's fine, we can't prove it was even just a joke and it's an easy misunderstanding after the first. I would have--as I had already done--dismissed it as a language matter. I said I had no reason to believe you misunderstood on purpose. But I was explaining events around Stormtemplar and why that case has some significant flaws from early on that could have given it momentum it should not have at that point.
Not sure how I'm implying anything about you, besides not knowing if you're town and what your motivations are. Rather a prudent thing to remember.
The trouble is "if he were town he wouldn't have such issues answering simple questions and didn't have to come it with excuses" yes it looks scummy whenever someone does that if they need to address something. Unfortunately, town do it all the time. I'm not seeing a solid case yet. If there is one, I really want to find it because events day one have more meaning then.
Can you comment on the playerboy case?
Having a look at onlywonderboy in a moment. Why "certainly" mafia?
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12 player = 9 town- 2 death - 2 afk - 1 not participating = 4
so it's 4 to 3 already, I honestly don't see much point in this game.
onlywounderboy is mafia, I'll vote him tomorow
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On September 29 2013 02:52 heavenz wrote:
12 player = 9 town- 2 death - 2 afk - 1 not participating = 4
so it's 4 to 3 already, I honestly don't see much point in this game.
onlywounderboy is mafia, I'll vote him tomorow
That's just plain mafia or throwing the game as town. Focus please. Make a case on onlywonderboy, and refute the playerboy case then.
The way things are looking right now I feel our best chance is playerboy as scum, and making a plan to lynch Jayte/Blurry after. Hope that the inactives are scoured from the game by mods, and that at least one is scum.
But this could in essence become LYLO already, you are right, so we better hit scum. If you have a certain thing on onlywonderboy, great, make us see it too.
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United States23745 Posts
All the Fnatic love right there.
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United States23745 Posts
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United States23745 Posts
Alright, heavenz calling me out with no facts leads me to believe he is scum. Seems like he's soft role calling Town Cop when he isn't one. His posts just come off as "I have insider information, trust me." With the format of the game we may not even have a Town Cop. If he's going to post that he is certain someone is scum he needs to provide his reasoning for why upfront.
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On September 28 2013 07:41 JonnyLaw wrote:
I'll get back to my reads in another post shortly but I want to look more into why someone wanted bereft out of the game.
Which questions do we need to ask to read into it more?
He voted jayte rather early and stuck with the vote. This is not a very good tell for anything in my opinion. He criticized myself a bit, and balla very harshly. Is this trying to be a clever ruse to try and start a bandwagon against balla? I'll look at it more as I go through the filters.
The Bereft kill is weird in my opinion, why not go for heavenz/Zaragon who have been way more pro-town with their posts so far? I'd say those two are way bigger threats to mafia (unless they happen to be mafia).
On September 28 2013 07:48 Balla24 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 28 2013 06:57 playerboy345 wrote:Also note that Balla24 switches his vote to MLuneth aswell. He says he's the only suspicious person besides the afkers, while I can agree that his posting was indeed odd, it doesn't explain his sudden switch. He agrees with BajaBlood: On September 27 2013 06:53 BajaBlood wrote:
Yes, in his other game (as scum) he was very sheepy early on until he started getting accused, then got aggresively defensive (think the word they used in the thread was 'shitflinging', lol). Whereas in this game, he's making reads right off the bat and playing much more in-your-face.
I think his heavenz read was terrible, and a number of his other posts (including the question) are bizzare, but I'm not reading it as scum yet.
Plus if we keep him around and he is in fact scum I think we'll have an easier time classifying him then some other players What BajaBlood says is don't lynch MLuneth because if he is scum it'll be easy to tell. WHY DO YOU VOTE HIM IF YOU AGREE THAT LETTING HIM LIVE FOR ANOTHER DAY WILL MAKE IT EASY TO TELL IF HE IS SCUM OR NOT? I'm sorry but that just makes absolutely 0 sense to me. I wouldn't call my switch sudden. I started off that morning describing why I thought MLuneth was suspicious. During the voting process, we were at a point in time where people were saying that Blurry, xIvanJ and Jayte were going to get modkilled for sure. I was agreeing with Bajablood on this post: Show nested quote +On September 27 2013 06:42 BajaBlood wrote:
My read on Mluneth actually leans towards him being a misguided townie. It's not the most urgent topic we have right now since he doesn't seem to be at the top of the list, so I will write up why I think this sometime soon. But I don't think he should be the lynch candidate of the night.
However not on the last sentence obviously since I ended up voting him. At the time of my EBWOP with the vote (i had meant to vote in my previous post already) I hadn't even seen the post that you quoted and was simply posting what was going through my head. In the end, I decided to vote him because I thought he was scummy (for the reasons I had opened the morning with), nobody else appeared scummy and the inactives were going to get modkilled. Like I said, it probably would have been better to go for a no-lynch (not probably, for sure would have been better) but I chalk that up to inexperience.
Nice and rational defense, I'm rethinking the possibility of a onlywonderboy/Zaragon/Balla24 scumteam now. (maybe onlywonderboy/Zaragon/inactive?)
On September 28 2013 07:57 Zaragon wrote:
What was my motivation as scum to swap my vote? It doesn't make sense. I could've NKed MLuneth if I had been scum and role-read him. I play with incomplete information as town, and made a mistake (again, largely because these players didn't even show up to play the game).
Your post, again, is something oddly timed right as night phase was ending, but I'm not sure yet what else to read into it. I'd welcome input on both you and myself.
Your motivation to swap your vote as scum? You thought that you could get MLuneth lynched and that Blurry was likely to get modkilled, if that were the case you could have easily switched to MLuneth in order to maximize your kills. Even if Blurry wasn't going to get modkilled - he seems completely inactive so it would be beneficial for scum to keep him around compared to MLuneth whom you admitted to have read as a vigi.
On September 28 2013 08:25 JonnyLaw wrote:All of this combined with his very timely post before we lynched MLuneth make me very suspicious. Note that was posted two minutes before the deadline. He had three other posts in the thirty minutes prior so clearly he was around at the lynch deadline and only chose to express his opinion once it was too late and did not elaborate as to why he felt that way. Show nested quote +On September 27 2013 06:58 playerboy345 wrote:
I'm not too comfortable with the MLuneth lynch to be honest, I really don't get that much of a scum read from him :/ Oh yeah, that onlywonderboy vote was odd when clearly he was not going to be lynched. There was time to jump on the blurry bandwagon easily. This may have swayed people to stay on blurry instead of going to MLuneth. It just doesn't add up.
I'm sorry for having a life and only being able to post 2 minutes before the deadline, I didn't f5 the page like my life depended on it because I was playing a game with my friends - when I came back it was almost time.
And about not voicing my opinion on MLuneth earlier; I'd advise you to read filters more carefully: 1 2 I said I never got a scumread from him: I'd consider that as expressing my opinion.
Do you not realise how powerfull a vote is? I obviously knew onlywonderboy wasn't getting lynched that day, but that doesn't mean I'll just jump on someone else because "why not, other people seem to think he is mafia!". I voted for onlywonderboy because he felt the most scum to me at that moment, and honestly I still think he is scum.
On September 28 2013 08:26 Zaragon wrote:
I'm definitely not saying it's towny for people to swap the votes, by the way, it can be scummy if either Stormtemplar or Blurry is scum and someone wanted to save them. Scum wouldn't care much about swinging the vote otherwise or they would just divide themselves not to look suspect.
It's not towny to swap your vote but you and Balla24 did swap your votes AND you divide yourselves from onlywonderboy.............DOTDOTDOTDOTDOTDOT
On September 28 2013 08:38 JonnyLaw wrote:
I'm still just reading stormtemplar oddly by the way. His little write up claims Zaragon and bereft as pro-town which not a lot of people have been arguing yet.
He gives me a hard time, basically repeating what "pro town zaragon" said a couple posts earlier. This is fair enough since I tried to have him lynched.
Then he tries to separate himself from playerboy.
And for the rest he essentially says nothing or repeats what other have said in a non-accusatory manner. I just think he wants to fly under the radar and get attention away from the ties he had to playerboy and anything to do with bereft. A "he's town I wouldn't dislike him!" type of post.
Are you even serious right now? Please show me where stormtemplar is agreeing with me, let me show you some of his posts where HE thinks I am scummy:
1 2 3 4 5
Sorry but after reading through his filter I couldn't find any posts of his where he agrees with me, enlighten me on your opinion please as your post just seems scummy to me at this point.
On September 28 2013 09:12 Zaragon wrote:
This is a good case, you substantiated the oddity from before with a lot more meat that I missed.
I also noticed in his filter that he pointedly asks people to elaborate on town reads, and pressures them for not doing so. How does that help town? It puts targets on people's backs. "I'm leaning/feeling town" is good enough to say you currently like someone's posting/opinions/motivations/emotions, and giving more is often actually not very good for town. Pressuring people about town reads, I don't see how that helps town. Someone having too strong town reads--playerboy on Stormtemplar based on little, but carefully pushed little--is much more of a scum tell. Sign of knowing this person is town, or protecting a scum team mate.
My read on you JonnyLaw is significantly less scummy now, and playerboy significantly more.
How does it help town? It forces people to talk - the more people talk the easier it is to spot oddities, this is my first game of mafia and I thought it would be a good way to get people talking.
"Someone having too strong town reads--playerboy on Stormtemplar based on little, but carefully pushed little--is much more of a scum tell. Sign of knowing this person is town, or protecting a scum team mate."
Can you explain this sentence too me? I don't really get what you're trying to say with this.
On September 28 2013 09:25 Blurry wrote:
Can I be replaced. I'm just swamped with work. No way I can actively contribute to this game.
I will say, going forward, you guys should look at those who switched their vote from me to myluneth. This is a pretty scummy bandwagon switch so it may be a solid yield to follow.
Apart from that, look at who Bereft was accusing. This may be a null lead because he may have just been the best contributer thus far but it may be something to go off of.
My gut feeling is at least 2 of the scum were voting for either me or myluneth because we were easy bandwagon targets. I think its weird that Zara claimed he was voting to pressure me to say something. Thats weird play and I don't necessarily agree with that.
I'm sorry I couldn't be a bigger help but RL being what it is, sometimes it just happens. I have to go because I'm setting up to dj a party but I'll check back in a bit to see if I get replaced or not.
+1 for my theory. Who changed their votes to MLuneth? Balla24, Zaragon, heavenz and JonnyLaw. 2 of which were in my "might-be-scum" case.
Also in this post he voices his doubts on Zaragon AND Balla24 being town.
On September 28 2013 10:54 stormtemplar wrote:
I think playerboy is scum (That last big post was awful),
Thank you for providing your thoughts, but WHY did you think it was afwul, you give NO reasoning at all.
On September 28 2013 13:41 stormtemplar wrote:
Playerboy has been actively useless. The main two people he's called out have been zaragon and bereft, which is just odd. As I pointed out in my analysis, I'm really weirded out by the fact that he read me as stronger town then zaragon or bereft. As glad as I am to have someone coming to my defense, I just find it doubtful that someone could look at day one from and town perspective and hold that view. I almost wonder if he's trying to make me look guilty by association, or get town cred by defending me. I gotta say, it sounds ideal for him as mafia for him to unsuccessfully defend me, I flip town and he gets cred and Jonnylaw looks like scum for attacking me so much.
You might want to look at the previous newbie mini mafia game - one of the town leaders (I'd consider Zaragon to be a town leader at this point) was scum - he was the reason scum won the game because everyone blindly followed him. And where the hell do you see me claim I read you as a stronger town than Zaragon or Bereft? If my memory serves me correct this is just plain bullshit - all I have said about you so far is that you don't feel scummy. In my opinion I haven't defended you. I've asked for people's reasoning on why they think you are scum because honestly I don't really see it (would still love to know why).
On September 28 2013 15:43 Zaragon wrote:
At the moment I like playerboy most for scum. Twice now the timing of his posts, end day and end night, has really felt scummy, as if he knows what to do to set himself up for the following phase. Certainty that indicates information advantage of scum, to me. I'm assuming scum would come up with a case to discredit me for the coming day since they were betting on Bereft, and it was a long and constructed one that could be for that purpose. He just missed the little detail that I was the first interested in Blurry as well as MLuneth and thus have nothing to gain from the whole swing vote for myself if I were scum, or any potential scum linked to me. Which ought to be a pretty massive detail if he were actually town making the case. Not so obvious from the scum perspective.
I need to get back to sleep, but it will be interesting to see opinions on this. Looking at other options tomorrow (including the real possibility of scum lurkers just sitting the game out, and different swing vote possibilities).
I don't see how posting at the end of a phase can be considered scummy. I voiced my opinion on MLuneth before my last post that phase and the post at night 1 took me ages to write. I had a shitton of tabs open, rereading stuff for ages to make sure and getting confused the whole fucking time due to the amount of text that I had to absorb, it ended up being done close to the deadline.
On September 29 2013 04:14 Zaragon wrote:Show nested quote +On September 29 2013 02:52 heavenz wrote:
12 player = 9 town- 2 death - 2 afk - 1 not participating = 4
so it's 4 to 3 already, I honestly don't see much point in this game.
onlywounderboy is mafia, I'll vote him tomorow That's just plain mafia or throwing the game as town. Focus please. Make a case on onlywonderboy, and refute the playerboy case then. The way things are looking right now I feel our best chance is playerboy as scum, and making a plan to lynch Jayte/Blurry after. Hope that the inactives are scoured from the game by mods, and that at least one is scum. But this could in essence become LYLO already, you are right, so we better hit scum. If you have a certain thing on onlywonderboy, great, make us see it too.
I agree with Zaragon on his first line.
Why are you pushing for a Jayte/Blurry lynch? Jayte is inactive and Blurry asked to be replaced. How does lynching these two help town? It gives us no information and puts pressure on noone. Very scummy in my opinion.
Again: would love to hear thoughts on my post.
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Yo, Zaragon could be scum playing better than you. This aggressive posting does not help our cause at all.
I said what I thought and you got so defensive about it for no reason. Plenty of people here called me out in earlier posts as well.
I'm sorry for having a life and only being able to post 2 minutes before the deadline, I didn't f5 the page like my life depended on it because I was playing a game with my friends - when I came back it was almost time.
When you posted three times in that 30 minute time span.
##vote playerboy345
We're backed into a corner where we have 1-2 days to get a vote right. You're making my gamble easier.
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On September 29 2013 09:29 JonnyLaw wrote:Yo, Zaragon could be scum playing better than you. This aggressive posting does not help our cause at all. I said what I thought and you got so defensive about it for no reason. Plenty of people here called me out in earlier posts as well. Show nested quote + I'm sorry for having a life and only being able to post 2 minutes before the deadline, I didn't f5 the page like my life depended on it because I was playing a game with my friends - when I came back it was almost time.
When you posted three times in that 30 minute time span. ##vote playerboy345We're backed into a corner where we have 1-2 days to get a vote right. You're making my gamble easier.
I don't see how being defensive is a scum tell?
I also don't see how posting three times in a 30 minute time span = watches the thread nonstop/not playing a game.
That last line.... do I even need to say anything about it?
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Who can you tell me is 100% mafia? Isn't this whole game a calculated gamble?
I think it is. And I think we all are playing quite poorly to be honest. Backed into a corner is no place to be. This is a game of calculated risks and you're making mine less and less of a risk. Show me otherwise I'm happy to see clear evidence that someone is mafia so I can vote confidently.
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The Bereft kill is weird in my opinion, why not go for heavenz/Zaragon who have been way more pro-town with their posts so far? I'd say those two are way bigger threats to mafia (unless they happen to be mafia).
The Bereft kill isn't weird if scum thought I could be the doctor target. And has heavenz been more pro town than Bereft was? Have I been? How? Just activity? Besides, plenty of foundation to cast suspicion on me after the vote, if you are mafia and have this thought process.
Your motivation to swap your vote as scum? You thought that you could get MLuneth lynched and that Blurry was likely to get modkilled, if that were the case you could have easily switched to MLuneth in order to maximize your kills. Even if Blurry wasn't going to get modkilled - he seems completely inactive so it would be beneficial for scum to keep him around compared to MLuneth whom you admitted to have read as a vigi.
You're giving me a lot of credit and convoluted reasoning in your scum image of me I must say. Maximizing kills by switching target? I was setting that up hours in advance when I stated my reasoning behind MLuneth and Blurry? Just betting they wouldn't show up? If I were making a plan as scum, it wouldn't be that stupid, and it wouldn't depend on people not even playing. Sorry, you're wrong.
The quote from me you wanted clarified: "Someone having too strong town reads--playerboy on Stormtemplar based on little, but carefully pushed little--is much more of a scum tell. Sign of knowing this person is town, or protecting a scum team mate."
By this I meant, you gave a strong town read on Stormtemplar and quoted specific details of his play as if they were clearly pro town, which I think was far from clear to anyone else at that point. I was willing to chalk it up as a newbie/language oddity, and to be fair, I'm considering that again since I've seen the Stormtemplar ties aren't substantial and came out of misunderstandings.
I don't see how posting at the end of a phase can be considered scummy. I voiced my opinion on MLuneth before my last post that phase and the post at night 1 took me ages to write. I had a shitton of tabs open, rereading stuff for ages to make sure and getting confused the whole fucking time due to the amount of text that I had to absorb, it ended up being done close to the deadline.
It reads scummy, because instead of waiting to see what scum is going to do, you make a post setting up for something you expect to happen. You could only know the NK if scum, and only then is your post relevant. All that effort setting up for the day phase, while tensely waiting for NKs? As town? You did the same thing a couple of minutes before the voting deadline, by which time it's too late to change anything, but you look good as scum since you knew MLuneth was town.
Why are you pushing for a Jayte/Blurry lynch? Jayte is inactive and Blurry asked to be replaced. How does lynching these two help town? It gives us no information and puts pressure on noone. Very scummy in my opinion.
....I didn't. I'm town so I state my current suggestion on the next day because I know I can die in the night. I was laying out for heavenz a way town still has a chance even if we stay lurker-city. Sure, I hope for better reads to lynch first, but by now I realized Jayte/Blurry are the lurkers who might be modkilled last since they have shown slight activity, thus best for first lynches if we end up in a situation to clean lurkers.
I don't know if you're mafia, playerboy, it does conflict with my personality read on you since the beginning. You'd be an extremely ballsy scum first time player.
You're still my top read, but since I'm not certain of you as scum anymore:
I'm 1-Shot Cop with a town check (I will reveal them if it gets close to deadline and lurkers don't budge, since it could essentially be LYLO). I'm expecting to die tonight anyway, and I want to get town on track if we can.
Maybe you can see my motivations for Day 1 better now, and why I used the word "cop-out" in a casual context (breadcrumb).
More reads people, more opinions.
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EBWOP: *will reveal them if necessary if it gets close to deadline
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Votecount!
playerboy345 (1): stormtemplar
Not voting (10): Blurry, playerboy345, heavenz, JonnyLaw, onlywonderboy, Zaragon, Balla24, xIvanJ, Jayte, BajaBlood
Currently, playerboy345 is set to be lynched. The deadline is in .
Remember, voting is mandatory! Place your votes in the voting thread here.
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On September 29 2013 04:24 onlywonderboy wrote:
EBWOP wrong thread oops
On September 29 2013 05:00 onlywonderboy wrote:
Alright, heavenz calling me out with no facts leads me to believe he is scum. Seems like he's soft role calling Town Cop when he isn't one. His posts just come off as "I have insider information, trust me." With the format of the game we may not even have a Town Cop. If he's going to post that he is certain someone is scum he needs to provide his reasoning for why upfront.
I want to look at onlywonderboy carefully after this, noting the time interval. Meaning he had the thread open and had seen the accusation, had gone to do something else, posted in the wrong thread, and gone back.
But at heavenz too with his last few posts, until he gives more.
And any and every link to playerboy, since all that says town about him is high contribution and personality-based read, for me, too many other things scum.
Going to try to go through everyone and possible links sometime today.
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On onlywonderboy:
On September 29 2013 05:00 onlywonderboy wrote:
Alright, heavenz calling me out with no facts leads me to believe he is scum. Seems like he's soft role calling Town Cop when he isn't one. His posts just come off as "I have insider information, trust me." With the format of the game we may not even have a Town Cop. If he's going to post that he is certain someone is scum he needs to provide his reasoning for why upfront.
I kind of picked up the soft-claim at the beginning of the day, but you're not really thinking this through. What he said later contradicts the "soft-claim" directly. He claimed he was roleblocked and THEN called you out for being scum (with no evidence, yes). There's no way he's town cop, and your post kind of gives me the feeling of you mis-evaluating the situation and trying to get the cop to come out as scum so that you can kill him the next day. However, he does need to come forward with his reasoning for accusing you
On playerboy:
His big post is now irrelevant with Zaragon's cop claim, I would have liked to have other people's opinions on everything said in there besides my own and Zaragon's but I guess we can move past that now. I am very interested to hear your (playerboy's) reads and defenses now that your theory has been refuted/debunked.
On Jonnylaw and Heavenz:
I previously said that these guys were agreeing a lot and could possibly be a mafia pair. This was due to their reads on day1 and also their voting pattern: they both initially went after stormtemplar and then switched in a very close time period to MLuneth. Their styles on day 1 were also very similar, it was mostly "feelings" on stormtemplar and when I asked them to elaborate they weren't really able to point out anything super scummy about him. Feelings are good in this game, especially on day1.
Today, Jonnylaw is bringing up good points about playerboy, but he disregards the major post of playerboy's as if it was irrelevant. I would have liked him to post his thoughts on that instead of just previous interaction of playerboy/stormtemplar. It's this kind of tunnel vision that i'm worried about. How do your thoughts change when you take into account that post? Is everything he did in line with how you thought of him before? Heavenz, however continues the same way he did on day1, off of feeling and still no real evidence. This series of posts from Heavenz particularly baffles me:
+ Show Spoiler +On September 27 2013 06:28 heavenz wrote:ok, onlywounderboy is behaving pro town because he explains himself and acts accordingly. 1. he's active in the beginning with 1 liners, to start discussion and avoid lurking 2. when you question him about this he answeres explaining himself + Show Spoiler +I think I got scared into writing one liners due to people claiming we were going to lynch non-active people. But, tis true, I should have transitioned into writing more useful posts. This is still my first game so I'm trying to take a lot of it in. I have pretty much zero knowledge of everyone in this game so getting a read off of people on a relatively few number of pages is proving more difficult than I had hoped. That said, stand outs right now:
Jayte: Joke post to start off the game, hasn't contributed anything of value. Isn't trying to cause chaos in the town, but his absence is questionable. Mentions being busy with work, could just be throwing that out so we don't seem suspicious
MLuneth: Had that odd question to start, could have easily asked a coach instead of putting it in the thread.
playerboy: Great analysis of all the players. But, imo, it seemed like a post that was trying too hard to put the spotlight on "Hey, look, I'm helping the town!" I'm definitely not saying he should be a candidate for the first lynch, but just something to keep in mind in the future. then he makes his vote post because he has to go and goes with one of the afk/s which is kinda a safe bet to vote on. + Show Spoiler +Unfortunately I have to be getting to work, so I'll miss any last minute deliberations. I'm going to have to ##Vote: Blurry. He's had plenty of time to defend himself so I'm not sure a least minute appeal would change my mind. He sorta flew under the radar for me, but people have pointed out his lack of contribution I agree it seems problematic. What can I say I don't know if he's really town, but he seems reasonable and constructive to me. I also don't think you're suspicious. Like I said too I don't want to vote Blurry or Bereft. From the active players Stormtemplar and Mluneth are suspicious then we have still Jeyte and xIvanJ, I would be willing to vote them too though On September 28 2013 16:32 heavenz wrote:
if he were town he wouldn't have such issues answering simle questions and didn't have to come it with excuses "was joke soso, low battery can't post, plx no kill me, i post moar i swears"
Zargan, that you indirectly imply that I mistook his word for what it was and not a silly joke on purpose makes you scummy.
onlywounderboy is certainly Mafia
btw I was roleblocked
In what order are the nightactions processed? First town or first mafia?
He says onlywonderboy is town and gives his reasons for it and then suddenly switches completely 180 degrees and accuses him of being scum with no reasoning whatsoever. Are you getting sloppy and giving less of a fuck? I've never seen a switch so sudden.
To zaragon:
I'd like to hear your current thoughts on Heavenz and Jonnylaw. Really on everybody since you're likely to die tonight. But heavenz and jonnylaw are high priority to me right now, and you can save your reads on everybody else till nightphase. Also, no reason to reveal until nightphase unless you or they are about to get lynched.
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Not good, I was hoping to wake up with 10+ posts in this thread, maybe a scum counter claim or smear campaign if Playerboy is scum. If he is, he doesn't have active support. I wish that told us more in this game...
Investigating Playerboy/heavenz/AFKer, Playerboy/onlywonderboy/AFKer and a few other thoughts.
I wish we had time to see more from onlywonderboy, I'm interested in him because he only responded in defense, had that little posting mistake and disappeared. I can still buy him as nervous town though and I really wish heavenz had made his case on him since it would help me read both.
I don't think heavenz is Serial Killer. The only thing pointing to it would be to say he was Roleblocked (which would explain his missing NK, but why would he point it out?) No reason for an SK to do anything but sheep the group/semi-lurk, and heavenz is definitely not doing that. Could be scum motivated to win by lurker game destruction, but I have a hard time buying that--especially since we only have a single claim of being Roleblocked--which is why I really want his reads. I was putting some pressure on, but I actually doubt he's scum. And to be honest, if 2+ of scum are motivated to win that way, they will win. No counter claim on being Roleblocked, which isn't of major significance, but means heavenz gets town credit and should not be lynched today.
Posting more as I have more time.
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On September 28 2013 06:59 BajaBlood wrote:Some thoughts, I'll try to add more as time goes on: + Show Spoiler [Zaragon] +The most consistent pro-town voice in the thread so far. Actually to the point where I would second-guess this read if he wasn't targeted tonight, because I'm not sure why anyone would disagree. This read would get even stronger if no one dies tonight, because then I'm assuming both scum and medic are thinking the same. Obviously, I disagree with his Mluneth vote, but since it was the first vote and had more analysis behind it than later votes, it doesn't bother me that much I'm still trying to process this bandwagon - it happened seemingly out of nowhere (little explanation and right before the deadline). It sounded like heavenz argument was better to lynch a somewhat suspicious afk'er than risk a mislynch on a suspicious active player? Is that an accurate summation of what you were thinking, Heavenz?
Balla24 couldn't seem to explain his reasoning and had to claim it was a mistake (the post where he agrees with me then votes Mluneth was particularly baffling). I'm willing to accept that for now, since it is his first game and I can't really be intolerant of active-but-misguided players when I'm hoping for tolerance on that front as well.
Ugh, my gut wants me to be suspicious of the bandwagon, but from the rest of the thread I'm getting a moderate town read on heavenz and slight town on Balla, so it might be best for me to let it go. Plus even though it was a bad lynch, it's not like the situation was providing us with many better options... Wait, you were expecting me to write more about lurkers after all that?
I almost forgot my mental note to look at this. 1 minute before deadline, just along with Playerboy and setting up for "if Zaragon survives the night". Then even an EBWOP to make light of it:
On September 28 2013 07:01 BajaBlood wrote:
EBWOP - hahaha me and playerboy writing the exact opposite thing about zaragon at the same time. I'll take a look in a couple hours when I'm back from the gym
And a couple of hours later, he didn't do that. Also, the post with the meta information on MLuneth, even if very good, was suspiciously timed (the 7 minutes until deadline I mentioned before). By that time the lynch was set. By itself, this doesn't mean anything, he could've not caught up to how fast people wanted to go MLuneth and not been worried until late. With another just-before-deadline post he looks suspicious in the same way playerboy does.
Baja/Playerboy/inactive is now my biggest scum circle read. I'll check so I haven't missed something that contradicts them planning together.
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EBWOP: Ugh I misread the post this time, now I see why it was just "mental note" and not scum read. Sorry. Filter diving again.
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On September 30 2013 02:53 Zaragon wrote:Show nested quote +On September 28 2013 06:59 BajaBlood wrote:Some thoughts, I'll try to add more as time goes on: + Show Spoiler [Zaragon] +The most consistent pro-town voice in the thread so far. Actually to the point where I would second-guess this read if he wasn't targeted tonight, because I'm not sure why anyone would disagree. This read would get even stronger if no one dies tonight, because then I'm assuming both scum and medic are thinking the same. Obviously, I disagree with his Mluneth vote, but since it was the first vote and had more analysis behind it than later votes, it doesn't bother me that much I'm still trying to process this bandwagon - it happened seemingly out of nowhere (little explanation and right before the deadline). It sounded like heavenz argument was better to lynch a somewhat suspicious afk'er than risk a mislynch on a suspicious active player? Is that an accurate summation of what you were thinking, Heavenz?
Balla24 couldn't seem to explain his reasoning and had to claim it was a mistake (the post where he agrees with me then votes Mluneth was particularly baffling). I'm willing to accept that for now, since it is his first game and I can't really be intolerant of active-but-misguided players when I'm hoping for tolerance on that front as well.
Ugh, my gut wants me to be suspicious of the bandwagon, but from the rest of the thread I'm getting a moderate town read on heavenz and slight town on Balla, so it might be best for me to let it go. Plus even though it was a bad lynch, it's not like the situation was providing us with many better options... Wait, you were expecting me to write more about lurkers after all that? I almost forgot my mental note to look at this. 1 minute before deadline, just along with Playerboy and setting up for "if Zaragon survives the night". Then even an EBWOP to make light of it: Show nested quote +On September 28 2013 07:01 BajaBlood wrote:
EBWOP - hahaha me and playerboy writing the exact opposite thing about zaragon at the same time. I'll take a look in a couple hours when I'm back from the gym And a couple of hours later, he didn't do that. Also, the post with the meta information on MLuneth, even if very good, was suspiciously timed (the 7 minutes until deadline I mentioned before). By that time the lynch was set. By itself, this doesn't mean anything, he could've not caught up to how fast people wanted to go MLuneth and not been worried until late. With another just-before-deadline post he looks suspicious in the same way playerboy does. Baja/Playerboy/inactive is now my biggest scum circle read. I'll check so I haven't missed something that contradicts them planning together.
Thanks for that, I had stopped looking at Bajablood completely and he seems to just completely not do what he says hes going to do. This has happened multiple times and i'll refer back to a post that I did previously
On September 27 2013 12:29 Balla24 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2013 12:23 Bereft wrote:balla, who's your biggest scum read at the moment? this is a pretty weak excuse I really want to start making some actual scum reads here but with this lack of activity I just can't, which is why I think we won't be making a mistake going after the quiet people. xIvanJ and Jayte, and Blurry if he doesn't follow up on his promise tomorrow. I'm reading more into Bajablood's filter atm. He seems a bit sketchy. He's making empty promises: - Saying he will analyze Stormtemplar in the 20 minutes before vote and post his thoughts and then not posting anything about him. - Saying we had his full attention now that he was back from work and that he would post his thoughts on everybody when he has time. It's now getting close to sleep time for NA and still nothing (he is central time) I also agree with you though, he seems to be analyzing the lurkers a lot, which is somewhat helpful but not nearly as helpful as the rest of the stuff he says he's going to do but doesn't.
I'm going to agree with you here on the Bajablood/playerboy pair. WTB some defenses T_T...
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Hey sorry, inconvenient timing for me. I'll be around an hour before voting deadline and gonna check some filters now and see if anything stands out.
Is this game particularly hard to make reads because of all the inactives? Maybe I'm just bad.
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+ Show Spoiler +On September 29 2013 11:36 Zaragon wrote:Show nested quote +The Bereft kill is weird in my opinion, why not go for heavenz/Zaragon who have been way more pro-town with their posts so far? I'd say those two are way bigger threats to mafia (unless they happen to be mafia). The Bereft kill isn't weird if scum thought I could be the doctor target. And has heavenz been more pro town than Bereft was? Have I been? How? Just activity? Besides, plenty of foundation to cast suspicion on me after the vote, if you are mafia and have this thought process. Show nested quote +Your motivation to swap your vote as scum? You thought that you could get MLuneth lynched and that Blurry was likely to get modkilled, if that were the case you could have easily switched to MLuneth in order to maximize your kills. Even if Blurry wasn't going to get modkilled - he seems completely inactive so it would be beneficial for scum to keep him around compared to MLuneth whom you admitted to have read as a vigi. You're giving me a lot of credit and convoluted reasoning in your scum image of me I must say. Maximizing kills by switching target? I was setting that up hours in advance when I stated my reasoning behind MLuneth and Blurry? Just betting they wouldn't show up? If I were making a plan as scum, it wouldn't be that stupid, and it wouldn't depend on people not even playing. Sorry, you're wrong. The quote from me you wanted clarified: "Someone having too strong town reads--playerboy on Stormtemplar based on little, but carefully pushed little--is much more of a scum tell. Sign of knowing this person is town, or protecting a scum team mate." By this I meant, you gave a strong town read on Stormtemplar and quoted specific details of his play as if they were clearly pro town, which I think was far from clear to anyone else at that point. I was willing to chalk it up as a newbie/language oddity, and to be fair, I'm considering that again since I've seen the Stormtemplar ties aren't substantial and came out of misunderstandings. Show nested quote +I don't see how posting at the end of a phase can be considered scummy. I voiced my opinion on MLuneth before my last post that phase and the post at night 1 took me ages to write. I had a shitton of tabs open, rereading stuff for ages to make sure and getting confused the whole fucking time due to the amount of text that I had to absorb, it ended up being done close to the deadline. It reads scummy, because instead of waiting to see what scum is going to do, you make a post setting up for something you expect to happen. You could only know the NK if scum, and only then is your post relevant. All that effort setting up for the day phase, while tensely waiting for NKs? As town? You did the same thing a couple of minutes before the voting deadline, by which time it's too late to change anything, but you look good as scum since you knew MLuneth was town. Show nested quote +Why are you pushing for a Jayte/Blurry lynch? Jayte is inactive and Blurry asked to be replaced. How does lynching these two help town? It gives us no information and puts pressure on noone. Very scummy in my opinion. ....I didn't. I'm town so I state my current suggestion on the next day because I know I can die in the night. I was laying out for heavenz a way town still has a chance even if we stay lurker-city. Sure, I hope for better reads to lynch first, but by now I realized Jayte/Blurry are the lurkers who might be modkilled last since they have shown slight activity, thus best for first lynches if we end up in a situation to clean lurkers. I don't know if you're mafia, playerboy, it does conflict with my personality read on you since the beginning. You'd be an extremely ballsy scum first time player. You're still my top read, but since I'm not certain of you as scum anymore: I'm 1-Shot Cop with a town check (I will reveal them if it gets close to deadline and lurkers don't budge, since it could essentially be LYLO). I'm expecting to die tonight anyway, and I want to get town on track if we can. Maybe you can see my motivations for Day 1 better now, and why I used the word "cop-out" in a casual context (breadcrumb). More reads people, more opinions.
Damn Zaragon why you gotta fuck up my mind? :/
I don't think you fake claiming a role at this point - I believe you are town now.
The Bereft kill isn't weird if scum thought I could be the doctor target. And has heavenz been more pro town than Bereft was? Have I been? How? Just activity? Besides, plenty of foundation to cast suspicion on me after the vote, if you are mafia and have this thought process.
I thought it was weird because you'd be a higher priority kill in my opinion. I didn't really think about a doctor save - I just thought you not dead = chance of you being mafia. Bereft said he didn't think of me as a candidate for a day2 lynch, however heavenz has voiced his suspicion on me before (he thought there was a possibility that me and stormtemplar could be scum together). If I were scum wouldn't it be more beneficial for me to nightkill heavenz instead of Bereft?
You're giving me a lot of credit and convoluted reasoning in your scum image of me I must say. Maximizing kills by switching target? I was setting that up hours in advance when I stated my reasoning behind MLuneth and Blurry? Just betting they wouldn't show up? If I were making a plan as scum, it wouldn't be that stupid, and it wouldn't depend on people not even playing. Sorry, you're wrong.
The quote from me you wanted clarified: "Someone having too strong town reads--playerboy on Stormtemplar based on little, but carefully pushed little--is much more of a scum tell. Sign of knowing this person is town, or protecting a scum team mate."
By this I meant, you gave a strong town read on Stormtemplar and quoted specific details of his play as if they were clearly pro town, which I think was far from clear to anyone else at that point. I was willing to chalk it up as a newbie/language oddity, and to be fair, I'm considering that again since I've seen the Stormtemplar ties aren't substantial and came out of misunderstandings.
I guess you're right on your first point, not much I can argue with there.
I kind of understand now with why you think the post was "fluffy" (as you put it). The quote was 4 lines and basically all it said was: Jayte is inactive he needs to show up.
It reads scummy, because instead of waiting to see what scum is going to do, you make a post setting up for something you expect to happen. You could only know the NK if scum, and only then is your post relevant. All that effort setting up for the day phase, while tensely waiting for NKs? As town? You did the same thing a couple of minutes before the voting deadline, by which time it's too late to change anything, but you look good as scum since you knew MLuneth was town.
Well, I guess I just learned something: if you are going to post wait for a phase to end (if it's almost ending that is).
"You could only know the NK if scum, and only then is your post relevant." Can you clarify this? I don't see how my post would be irrelevant if someone other then Bereft would have been NK'd (well unless you/Balla24/onlywonderboy got NK'd).
....I didn't. I'm town so I state my current suggestion on the next day because I know I can die in the night. I was laying out for heavenz a way town still has a chance even if we stay lurker-city. Sure, I hope for better reads to lynch first, but by now I realized Jayte/Blurry are the lurkers who might be modkilled last since they have shown slight activity, thus best for first lynches if we end up in a situation to clean lurkers.
I don't know if you're mafia, playerboy, it does conflict with my personality read on you since the beginning. You'd be an extremely ballsy scum first time player.
You're still my top read, but since I'm not certain of you as scum anymore:
I'm 1-Shot Cop with a town check (I will reveal them if it gets close to deadline and lurkers don't budge, since it could essentially be LYLO). I'm expecting to die tonight anyway, and I want to get town on track if we can.
Maybe you can see my motivations for Day 1 better now, and why I used the word "cop-out" in a casual context (breadcrumb).
More reads people, more opinions.
Don't you think it's likely that you will be protected by the town doctor tonight? Especially now that you've claimed a role and are willing to reveal your town check?
I have to say that I still don't necessarily agree with lynching Jayte/Blurry but I understand that if we get no better reads in the meantime we'll be forced to either lynch one of those two, vote for a no-lynch or make a complete gamble and lynch a random person who feels scum. I'd still like to avoid lynching inactives if possible though :/
On September 29 2013 13:35 Balla24 wrote:
On playerboy:
His big post is now irrelevant with Zaragon's cop claim, I would have liked to have other people's opinions on everything said in there besides my own and Zaragon's but I guess we can move past that now. I am very interested to hear your (playerboy's) reads and defenses now that your theory has been refuted/debunked.
I feel horrible now that my theory has been refuted, what else? I still think onlywonderboy is scum, and would appreciate it if people would read through his filters as I feel like his posts are scummy.
On September 29 2013 14:31 stormtemplar wrote:
Could heavenz maybe be SK? His overall attitude is sorta seems like "$@#$ it all" which I wouldn't expect of mafia or town. Perhaps his odd play could be a result of clumsily attempting to harm both teams? I do agree that him and jonnylaw did tunnelvision onto me in a way I found surprising, but I'm not feeling Jonny as scum, especially if playerboy is.
I think we should lynch playerboy, he's the scummiest player right now, and if we're right and he flips scum it makes it much more likely that both jonny and myself are town, as it would be very odd for us to buss a teammate before there was any real pressure on him in the first place. I also feel like his defense feels too tense and angry, a townies defense should be colored by the fact that they want to stop the town from making a mistake, they want to live not only because they want to survive, but more importantly because killing them will hurt the town. I know my feeling when defending myself was "Oh crap, we really can not afford to lynch another townie, I really need to convince them they're making a mistake." Playerboy's whole attitude is more tense, aggressive and combative then I'd expect from someone in this mentality.
Zaragon, I was thinking about your point that playerboy is oddly aggressive as a first time mafia. That is true, but passivity among inexperience mafia is a rule that is not without exception, especially since it is so well know. I could see someone with a naturally aggressive playstyle deciding that they'd avoid looking like mafia by wildly attacking the first person they could. Add to the fact that he's tried his absolute best to discredit you, when you are arguably the town leader. It actually seems like a decent plan when playing with fellow newbies, if you can pull it off you'll start off a disfuntional debate that is totally misdirected, and maybe even get someone who is deeply pro-town lynched and break the back of the town while at it.
It is possible that Playerboy is simply a misguided and overagressive townie, but I'm not feeling it. Most of his posts have been low on content, and I haven't liked the logic on many of his arguments, when he actually does post.. (If people would like I can post a point by point, but it's late and I don't want to do it now, and honestly I don't think it's necessary.)
I think I want to go back and read through the filters of some of our lower key players and see if I can get any reads, because I feel like we have at least one scum player who hasn't fallen under suspicion yet. Going to bed now, it's 1:30 AM and I have stuff to do tomorrow morning.
On heavenz being SK: if he indeed got RB'd and is SK it could make sense as there was only one kill that night, on the other hand our SK might aswell be an inactive which could explain that, I don't know but I can't find any support for this argument in his filter.
I also feel like his defense feels too tense and angry, a townies defense should be colored by the fact that they want to stop the town from making a mistake, they want to live not only because they want to survive, but more importantly because killing them will hurt the town. I know my feeling when defending myself was "Oh crap, we really can not afford to lynch another townie, I really need to convince them they're making a mistake." Playerboy's whole attitude is more tense, aggressive and combative then I'd expect from someone in this mentality.
I'm sorry but I disagree with this. There was zero anger in my post, my apologies if you felt like there was, if so it was unintentional.
Add to the fact that he's tried his absolute best to discredit you, when you are arguably the town leader.
I want to urge you to check the previous newbie mini mafia game. The town leader in that game was Umasi - guess who was scum? Umasi.
Being a town leader doesn't make you towny, there is no way you can be sure that someone is town unless you are a mason, you've performed an investigation or someone has undenyable proof (a role claim for example). Blindly following the town leader is scummy if anything.
It is possible that Playerboy is simply a misguided and overagressive townie, but I'm not feeling it. Most of his posts have been low on content, and I haven't liked the logic on many of his arguments, when he actually does post.. (If people would like I can post a point by point, but it's late and I don't want to do it now, and honestly I don't think it's necessary.)
EXCUSE ME? DID YOU EVEN READ ANY OF MY POSTS? Please do provide a point by point post as this is just plain bullshit in my opinion.
Sorry for not being able to post earlier, I woke up late because I went to sleep late and when I woke up I had to leave to the airport because a friend of my parents was leaving (heard about it when I woke up, didn't know this before). I haven't refreshed the page for a while now and will probably post more after refreshing/reading more. I'm definitely around for now though - might not be able to be here for the deadline because I have to wake up early tomorrow but I'll be here for another 2 hours atleast I think.
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Okay real quick overview.
Bajablood seems town. I'm almost positive to be honest. Zaragon, I hope he's town. Otherwise we got outplayed badly.
Heavenz is either mafia getting lazy because they feel like it's GG or he's a frustrated townie because of the afks (as am I). I'm honestly a bit torn at this point. Heavenz has been eager to bandwagon people, but I've had similar reads.
Until someone shows otherwise heavenz and playerboy are so very, very scummy. And if they're not then onlywonderboy is and we lose?
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EBWOP, uhhh let me read this huge playerboy post. He deserves a chance to redeem himself.
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I really don't see how you guys can even think that I'm more scummy than onlywonderboy, I provide analysis and even though some of it may be proven wrong (the zaragon/Balla24/onlywonderboy case for example) I've done my best to hunt for scum, can the same be said for onlywonderboy? His posts provide nothing new and he isn't even bothering to hunt for scum. He is my strongest scum read and I'm gonna use my second vote on him unless someone can make me believe otherwise.
##Vote onlywonderboy
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Bereft United States. September 27 2013 12:13. Posts 584
this guy's posting has been waaay subpar, especially coming from a TL writer! i want to call out this post in particular:
Show nested quote +
the threatened lynch on lurkers should make you one to SPEAK UP if anything, not post pointless one liners. also calls playerboy's post "great analysis", which i believe others have called out as well. what exactly did you find great? he hasn't clarified this but says he will. i'll be waiting to see what he says. his vote on blurry also seems like a 'safe' vote, in that other players (myself, zaragon to name a few) have already tossed blurry's name about as someone whose current posting is deviating from his pro-town posting in previous games. right now, i say wonderboy's a pretty decent candidate for the lynch.
I don't think much has changed, besides ofcourse that bereft died
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Bereft United States. September 27 2013 12:13. Posts 584
this guy's posting has been waaay subpar, especially coming from a TL writer! i want to call out this post in particular:
Show nested quote +
the threatened lynch on lurkers should make you one to SPEAK UP if anything, not post pointless one liners. also calls playerboy's post "great analysis", which i believe others have called out as well. what exactly did you find great? he hasn't clarified this but says he will. i'll be waiting to see what he says. his vote on blurry also seems like a 'safe' vote, in that other players (myself, zaragon to name a few) have already tossed blurry's name about as someone whose current posting is deviating from his pro-town posting in previous games. right now, i say wonderboy's a pretty decent candidate for the lynch.
I don't think much has changed, besides ofcourse that bereft died.
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It's a difficult game. 1 inactive scum gives us few links to work on. 2 inactive scum means not a single lead we have is going to be correct unless the 1 active majorly messes up.
A note for Balla by the way: no-lynch isn't an option in this setup
A note on Baja/playerboy timing and play: I'm hesitating based on their contradiction in their suspiciously timed posts. It would be good if a third scum were backing playerboy, but pretty useless if a third scum is inactive.
Baja could be considered on his own merit as scum with no playerboy attached, so I'm filter diving based on either an active scum threesome or checking if I like Baja as outlier scum, currently.
At this point my main suspicions lie with playerboy or onlywonderboy.
Still scumminess around Stormtemplar, I wish he would give more reads on more people, but a few of his posts have struck me as genuine and my personality read forming on him is starting to fit with how he has played, as town. Currently neutral/slightly scummy to me.
JonnyLaw is not reading quite as tense anymore and contributes well with a motivation that reads slightly on the town side of neutral (I really hope we don't end up with inactives ruling the game and someone like JonnyLaw pulling it through, but I doubt it right now)
Ouhc, Playerboy, if you're town, please don't address who the doc might or should save. Keep in mind the possibility we could only have a 1-Shot Doc or two or whatever, and discussing anything around this only helps scum
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It's hard to assume that the away player & Beja are scum, because of his willingness to vote either of them immidiatly.
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you mentioned it probably, but playerboys voting behavior is scummy. It almost seems like he knew that mylunch was town, and went for wounderboy knowing he wouldn't get a majority on that player that time, effectivly throwing his vote away, just to get some town credit (or end up on the misslynch group).
then again, I share berefts thoughts on wounderboy, and have to agree with playboy that he never participated in anyway in a analysis of a player he thought was scummy. He just posted like I feel bad about him, but never bothered to do dig deeper.
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On September 30 2013 03:37 Zaragon wrote:
Ouhc, Playerboy, if you're town, please don't address who the doc might or should save. Keep in mind the possibility we could only have a 1-Shot Doc or two or whatever, and discussing anything around this only helps scum
My apologies, didn't realize that :/
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On September 30 2013 03:49 heavenz wrote:
you mentioned it probably, but playerboys voting behavior is scummy. It almost seems like he knew that mylunch was town, and went for wounderboy knowing he wouldn't get a majority on that player that time, effectivly throwing his vote away, just to get some town credit (or end up on the misslynch group).
then again, I share berefts thoughts on wounderboy, and have to agree with playboy that he never participated in anyway in a analysis of a player he thought was scummy. He just posted like I feel bad about him, but never bothered to do dig deeper.
You do realise that my vote was going to be null no matter what right? Blurry and Jayte got two votes - MLuneth got four, my vote wouldn't have made a difference anyways, what's the point on hopping on a lynchtrain?
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I'm starting to lean BajaBlood/onlywonderboy/????? for now. Bereft reads pretty early. Suspicious timings in posts, pretty random voting pattern that could mean no scum was a target, or Stormtemplar could fit as third.
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Votecount!
playerboy345 (1): stormtemplar
onlywonderboy (1): playerboy345
Not voting (9): Blurry, heavenz, JonnyLaw, onlywonderboy, Zaragon, Balla24, xIvanJ, Jayte, BajaBlood
Currently, playerboy345 is set to be lynched. The deadline is in .
Remember, voting is mandatory! Place your votes in the voting thread here.
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Ugh, Heavenz you are confusing the shit out of me...
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if we lynch onlywounderboy it has the advantage that it would clear playboy, the otherway around it wouldn't yield much.
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edit: it has the possiblity that it could clear* sorry.
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onlywonderboy, do you have a defense?
At this point, the most dangerous possibilities for me are heavenz using lurker factor to bring a scum win, possibly in conjunction with Playerboy. But both of them are contributing and reading town in many ways. A more subdued scum team is more likely to me by now.
Tons of possibilities for lurker combinations but we have to disregard those I think. We get a lot of information tonight with an active target. Hopefully modkills sweep up foil targets and maybe even a scum or two.
Jayte voted last night and Blurry did not, so for tomorrow depending on the landscape--good scum reads first obviously--prioritize a Jayte lynch if it comes down to a lurker. Assuming he will be modkilled last. Frustrating to depend on modkills but we have to.
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On September 30 2013 04:22 Zaragon wrote:
onlywonderboy, do you have a defense?
At this point, the most dangerous possibilities for me are heavenz using lurker factor to bring a scum win, possibly in conjunction with Playerboy. But both of them are contributing and reading town in many ways. A more subdued scum team is more likely to me by now.
Tons of possibilities for lurker combinations but we have to disregard those I think. We get a lot of information tonight with an active target. Hopefully modkills sweep up foil targets and maybe even a scum or two.
Jayte voted last night and Blurry did not, so for tomorrow depending on the landscape--good scum reads first obviously--prioritize a Jayte lynch if it comes down to a lurker. Assuming he will be modkilled last. Frustrating to depend on modkills but we have to.
Jayte did not vote last night.
I'm gonna put my vote on onlywonderboy (##vote: onlywonderboy), he needs to defend himself. If there is no defense in an hour or so I will remove for the time being and reconsider. I don't want to make the same mistake as last day so I'm going to be here the entire time.
Heavenz to me right now is playing super dangerously both as town and as scum (sk or mafia). He's flip flopping a hell of a lot, claimed to be roleblocked (which to me signifies that he has a role) and is going after people with little evidence. He seems to be frustrated with the game. This could mean that he is mafia and has afk teammates which would fucking suck.
Please people, if you are under suspicion defend yourself! If you are accusing people bring up why you think so. If you don't and you are town, then the game is lost. So far the only one who has defended himself is actually just playerboy, which is hilarious and confusing.. come on guys.
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United States23745 Posts
I've been trying to defend myself all game long and it's been cited as one of the major reasons I've been called out as a scum. I don't have much to say now. I'm trying, but everything I say just gets twisted (which is a big part of the game). I haven't been calling people out because hardly anyone has done anything to show their true colors, I'm just working on little pieces of info like everyone else. I think you guys are just confusing scum reads with noob reads. I'm pretty sure heavenz is mafia though. Seems certain I'm mafia and never gave any good reasoning for it. If I end up getting lynched when I'm revealed to be town it will at least put pressure on heavenz and playerboy since they are so convinced I'm scum.
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Not Voting: Not voting (4): Blurry, xIvanJ, Jayte, MLuneth
he didn't vote either bro
Even though playboys defences seem to be a bit over top, but perhaps he just likes to talk about himself. Either way, why I belive that he's town is his strong urge to lynch onlywounderboy from day1 on. Onlywounderboy was a more valid choice to lynch then than I realized. Given all that, I think it's a town attribute to try to still kill that target since he didn't improve any further. Ofcourse the impinion on him varies with the outcome of the lynch.
I don't see you suggesting anything better right now.
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Jayte did not vote last night.
My mistake, too stressed.
On September 30 2013 04:34 onlywonderboy wrote:
I've been trying to defend myself all game long and it's been cited as one of the major reasons I've been called out as a scum. I don't have much to say now. I'm trying, but everything I say just gets twisted (which is a big part of the game). I haven't been calling people out because hardly anyone has done anything to show their true colors, I'm just working on little pieces of info like everyone else. I think you guys are just confusing scum reads with noob reads. I'm pretty sure heavenz is mafia though. Seems certain I'm mafia and never gave any good reasoning for it. If I end up getting lynched when I'm revealed to be town it will at least put pressure on heavenz and playerboy since they are so convinced I'm scum.
Defense is not a problem at all; you should vehemently defend yourself and explain why it's a bad choice, give reads on people you suspect and why.
Only saying who to suspect if you die isn't helping. Anything more on heavenz or Playerboy? Who else do you suspect and why?
What is your read on Stormtemplar at the moment?
You write posts that show a lot of thinking without much reasoning surrounding scum reads. It's not impossible that it's a newbie tell, but I'm starting to get a feeling that it's a "I know no one I would want lynched is actually mafia" thing.
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I want to make a note that Balla is effectively under the radar. I have nothing on him as scum for today, but he hasn't made a great effort to substantiate any case even if he's given opinions and reads.
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##Vote onlywonderboy
I see a good case here, plus it solves a town fight and gives lead to an under-the-radar scum team.
Unless I've missed something on playerboy or something new turns up, this is my vote.
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United States23745 Posts
I'm sticking with my guns on this one, ##vote heavenz. He went from analyzing me as a strong town read to certainly mafia without ever clearly explaining why he felt that way. Just seems super scummy especially since people asked for an explanation multiple times and he never gave one.
@Zaragon I think I'm just bad at picking out scrum reads but I'm trying :/ I'm suspicious of playerboy for most of the reasons people have post in the last couple pages (nothing new to add there so no use spamming that). I'm leaning less scum on Stormtemplar at the moment. Was suspicious at first, but honestly his posts don't really make it seem like he's going out of the way to be scummy. Could just be him laying low, but I think there has been more suspicious activity in the tread.
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Heavenz, can you outline how you suddenly shifted your read on onlywonderboy from strong town to certainly mafia? Your explanation wasn't bad in itself, but "strong town" and "certainly mafia" are indeed very conflicting reads.
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Hey guys, the more I think about the more I feel like we're getting MLuneth2.0 by lynching onlywonderboy. I've been going over it my head and rereading his logs. He could be mafia but that's just not the feeling I'm getting.
heavenz and playerboy seem much scummier in their posting. We're going lynch onlywonderboy for lack of content in a noob game? I dunno, give me some more reasons than that and I'm more than happy to hop aboard the lynch train.
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Votecount!
onlywonderboy (4): playerboy345, Balla24, heavenz, Zaragon
playerboy345 (1): stormtemplar
heavenz (1): onlywonderboy
Not voting (5): Blurry, JonnyLaw, xIvanJ, Jayte, BajaBlood
Currently, onlywonderboy is set to be lynched. The deadline is in .
Remember, voting is mandatory! Place your votes in the voting thread here.
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I'm trying to see if heavenz and playerboy can be scum, lots of things lean against them, but lots of little details speak for them as well. heavenz roleblock, and frustration with lurkers after phase; sure he could fake this as scum, I just wouldn't expect him to.
playerboy has done a lot of scummy things and it's possible he's playing dumb when he's called out about it, but he's always been enthusiastic and seemingly curious to solve the game. After he constructed his huge case based on me starting a vote swap as scum, obviously I have the reaction that "he calls me scum, he must be scum", but I don't want that to cloud my judgment. Still, he did it at just the timing I imagine he would want to set up as scum...
I'm really not sure about onlywonderboy, it's 50/50 for me as is playerboy, heavenz similar. I'm hoping for the best town situation considering our lurker situation, though, and I would hate it if we had active town on town kills and die that way
Depends on heavenz, onlywonderboy and playerboy's input now.
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Yeah, the players who signed up and didn't show up put us in a rough a rough spot. Without that we can lynch onlywonderboy or heavenz and go from there.
I'm going to keep digging and see what I come up with here.
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On September 30 2013 05:45 JonnyLaw wrote:
Hey guys, the more I think about the more I feel like we're getting MLuneth2.0 by lynching onlywonderboy. I've been going over it my head and rereading his logs. He could be mafia but that's just not the feeling I'm getting.
heavenz and playerboy seem much scummier in their posting. We're going lynch onlywonderboy for lack of content in a noob game? I dunno, give me some more reasons than that and I'm more than happy to hop aboard the lynch train.
I'm gonna have to agree with you here, ##unvote. His defense, is again lackluster, the number of slip ups is considerate but he hasn't been changing up his play and I can't really pinpoint anything specific besides the Blurry vote on day 1 and even the most town people messed up their voting day 1.
Like I said previously, Heavenz is playing very dangerously. His accusations are completely baseless and he continues to do so. Heavenz will be my end day vote unless something changes.
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United States23745 Posts
I really have tried to make a case as to why I'm not scum. A lot of people call me out for being conservative in my accusations, but I don't think that should automatically be considered a scum tell. I feel that making blind accusation or ones based on very little evidence can more more detrimental to the town than just not saying anything. That's why I'm pushing so hard for heavenz now, because he has acted in ways I actually get a very scummy vibe from.
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I will vote heavenz as well if nothing changes. His flip flopping looks badly but at the same time he does seem passionate about the game. Fuck, forum mafia too hard.
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if I was scum I would sit back and just watch you, or don't show up at all, haha... Anyone who pushes for me is either mafia, or w/e, lynch me if you must.
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On September 30 2013 06:24 heavenz wrote:
if I was scum I would sit back and just watch you, or don't show up at all, haha... Anyone who pushes for me is either mafia, or w/e, lynch me if you must.
... this post makes me think heavenz is capable of using any kind of lurker situation to his advantage. Much more scummy to me now.
It would make sense for heavenz to lead the scum team, kill Bereft and go after Bereft's scum read (a scum read who is town of course).
Heavenz. Please explain more, that really was no kind of town defense.
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ok, roleclaim = vt
I was roleblocked, probably because my d1 was far better than d2, admittedly, my cases today were horribly, I tried to look through, but somewhat failed. So I falled back to the cases that bereft made, who is confirmed town, and what his opinion is, and he called out this wounderboy as a good lynch, and since nothing big in that regard changed, I wanted to make a case against him. Playboy who I was suspecting made much more sense to me due to several reasons, mostly his voting behavior was true to all his statements, and he feels like he seriously want to figure stuff out. What else can I say, I really like balla's posting and it will be impossible for me to tell if he is scum or not. Getting a read on this Jonny guy is impossible for me either. So yeah, I know not much, and my opinion changes a lot these times. I am not sure how you attribute that as scum however, as scum I would know who everyone is and just could have a set opinion on someone. Ya..
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Ok I'll buy it.
Betting onlywonderboy.
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Onlywonderboy, your defense is entirely OMGUS. You're pushing heavenz based on the fact that he is calling you out and pressuring you. Pressuring someone isn't a scummy thing to do.
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On September 30 2013 06:39 Zaragon wrote:
Ok I'll buy it.
Betting onlywonderboy.
Wait i'm confused, why do you buy it? Isn't vt just vanilla townie? Why would someone claim that? Not too relevant to the game i guess but im just so confused right now.
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United States23745 Posts
On September 30 2013 06:39 Blurry wrote:
Onlywonderboy, your defense is entirely OMGUS. You're pushing heavenz based on the fact that he is calling you out and pressuring you. Pressuring someone isn't a scummy thing to do.
No, it was because his opinion flipped 180 without really explaining himself. Would have called that our regardless of the player.
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I'm sticking with my gut this time. I messed up day one and MLuneth got lynched.
##vote playerboy345
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Votecount!
onlywonderboy (3): playerboy345, heavenz, Zaragon
playerboy345 (2): stormtemplar, JonnyLaw
heavenz (1): onlywonderboy
Blurry (1): Blurry
Not voting (4): xIvanJ, Jayte, BajaBlood, Balla24
Currently, onlywonderboy is set to be lynched. The deadline is in . Remember, voting is mandatory!
Remember, voting is mandatory! Place your votes in the voting thread here.
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##vote Heavenz
I don't buy it, and I don't understand why you do Zaragon and after this goes through I'd like to hear why you buy it.
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onlywonderboy has two highly suspicious players voting him. I can't follow them into that trap.
If owb is lynched and mafia we still cannot exclude them from also being mafia since we have three inactive players. He could be a sacrificial lamb to get pressure off them. Lynching playerboy is the way to go.
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Also, blurry even though things came up I appreciate you at least showing up and making a perfunctory effort. Seriously, those other two suck and you suck slightly less than them.
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we can also vote ivanj for all I care
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On September 30 2013 06:43 Balla24 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 30 2013 06:39 Zaragon wrote:
Ok I'll buy it.
Betting onlywonderboy. Wait i'm confused, why do you buy it? Isn't vt just vanilla townie? Why would someone claim that? Not too relevant to the game i guess but im just so confused right now.
Ah my first thought was vigi which could be proven in the night.
I'm not sure, I just buy the possibility of a mafia roleblocker hitting heavenz since Bereft died and I wasn't roleblocked. playerboy hasn't said anything about roleblocking either.
Of course, heavenz would know if there isn't a scum roleblocker in the game if he is scum... Ugh
I don't know
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the roleblock thing was only important when it was impossible for bereft to roleblock me that we know there is a mafia roleblock, was the only use of that claim.
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To be fair, if owb is mafia there's a good chance blurry is as well. He's posted 4? times and calls out owb and votes himself.
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On September 30 2013 06:53 Zaragon wrote:Show nested quote +On September 30 2013 06:43 Balla24 wrote:On September 30 2013 06:39 Zaragon wrote:
Ok I'll buy it.
Betting onlywonderboy. Wait i'm confused, why do you buy it? Isn't vt just vanilla townie? Why would someone claim that? Not too relevant to the game i guess but im just so confused right now. Ah my first thought was vigi which could be proven in the night. I'm not sure, I just buy the possibility of a mafia roleblocker hitting heavenz since Bereft died and I wasn't roleblocked. playerboy hasn't said anything about roleblocking either. Of course, heavenz would know if there isn't a scum roleblocker in the game if he is scum... Ugh I don't know
Who did you check? is it relevant?
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EBWOP: Don't reveal if it's not relevant but if it clears any of Heavenz, Playerboy or Onlywonderboy then it's important obviously, I just don't want you to forget.
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On September 30 2013 06:54 heavenz wrote:
the roleblock thing was only important when it was impossible for bereft to roleblock me that we know there is a mafia roleblock, was the only use of that claim.
If you are scum and there is no scum roleblocker in this game, you could safely claim roleblock to look towny. It would be really good play, even. So I don't know what to bet on.
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No my check is irrelevant to this decision at present
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No posting till the nightpost please!
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Night 2
Final Votecount!
+ Show Spoiler +onlywonderboy (3): playerboy345, Balla24, heavenz, Zaragon
playerboy345 (2): stormtemplar, JonnyLaw
heavenz (2): onlywonderboy, Balla24
Blurry (1): Blurry
Not voting (3): xIvanJ, Jayte, BajaBlood
onlywonderboy, Vanilla Townie, was lynched!
It is now Night 2. Remember to send all actions to all hosts!
The deadline is in .
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Ouch I really wish I had swung that vote those last agonizing minutes. Looking at heavenz and playerboy for the night.
Second big mistake on my part. I'm more than willing to trust the people that voted playerboy or heavenz to take the wheel now, I get the sense I let myself get swayed by scum
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Blurry has been replaced by Koshi
Modkills:
xIvanJ the Mafia Goon
Jayte the Vanilla Townie
BajaBlood the Vanilla Townie
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Yeah, like I said two possible scum voting owb. Meh, could be a townie following Zaragon who's baiting us all. I don't have a lot to say until night post is up to be honest.
I'll be around most of the day if someone brings up something to discuss im more than willing.
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Oh shit, 1 outta 3 ain't bad boys. Welcome to the game Koshi. You made my day better.
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United States23745 Posts
Well, it was fun while it lasted, sorry townies, I tried! Learned a lot regardless, this game is hard lol. Might look to play in more.
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Oh rofl.
Modkills everywhere.
Let's get this game going. 17 pages in two days.
The cool kids are doing 81 pages in 1 day.
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So give me the strongest scumread in the thread. + why.
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Ahyeah extra information about me.
I got roleblocked night 1.
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We have a chance then, and if heavenz and playerboy are the scum team now we could have it won. If so I'm guessing their last resort is to go after me and tying me to others, together.
But if it's just one of them and the other scum is voting on the other (or Koshi[Blurry]) this might get tricky.
I doubt I'll budge much on them now or get any new information, but I'll look as much as I can. I have my own little town circle with my town check still, unfortunately they can't know, of course. So I'm going to use that as much as possible to evaluate things, but otherwise hope others will step up.
(Sorry onlywonderboy, bye)
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On September 30 2013 07:30 Koshi wrote:
Ahyeah extra information about me.
I got roleblocked night 1.
So heavenz is mafia? Wish we had known that a bit earlier.
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The roleblock on Blurry indicates that somebody who knew him and respected him RB him tbh.
I don't see why anybody would want to RB an afk guy.
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Heavenz claimed being roleblocked reasonably early day 2. So scum had made a mistake with the RB and he tried to use it to look towny, hoping Blurry would stay AFK, I suppose? Or there is some possibility I haven't considered. Will check.
(Welcome Koshi, btw)
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I almost can't believe that he would do that. I am reading page 18/19 and there was no chance he was getting lynched? Ugh so strange to do that. And there is a chance on 2 RB.
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Bella
Why did you vote for heavenz. Like what is there not to believe about a RB? Why did you think Heavenz claimed RB.
Heavenz
Why didn't you claim RB instantly? You could have been seen as probably town from the start of the day.
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Bella
Why did you vote for heavenz when you can be the deciding factor between playerboy and onlywonderboy. Why not switch votes after you saw heavenz wasn't getting lynched. Did you think onlywonderboy was scum? Or that both playerboy and onlywonderboy were town? Tell me what you were thinking.
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OHH WTF BLURRY.
You fucking posted 3 post under the guy that claims RB and you say nothing about it? WTF is that all about...
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I suppose it's plausible. The now dead Vanilla Mafia + 2 Mafia Roleblockers? And they blocked heavenz and Bereft, which would make playerboy's plan of implicating me after the day 1 vote swing look mafia now. I guess it doesn't make much difference for me, playerboy and heavenz look extremely scummy to me and anything else is only a remote possibility for me.
But I'm guessing the rest of you need to evaluate me. Just keep in mind the swing vote was in my hands last minute and towards the two other people I wanted lynched. I'm also an un-countered 1-Shot Cop. I've made mistakes, but they should be clearly towny ones at this point.
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Yeah I am going to need to spend more time on this. I have read the first day and then the end of Day 2. Skimmed over the 10 pages in between.
I don't know if it is time constraints or that you guys are afraid to post. But just spam from now on. Make 30 posts in a row I don't care. Just type things as soon as you think of it.
I am currently in a 19-player game that had 75 pages after 48 hours. The other 30-player game had around 180 pages after 2 full cycles. Just saying that you need to post more.
I am going to bed now but in 8 hours I will be awake and we need to talk a lot.
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On September 30 2013 07:49 Koshi wrote:
Bella
Why did you vote for heavenz when you can be the deciding factor between playerboy and onlywonderboy. Why not switch votes after you saw heavenz wasn't getting lynched. Did you think onlywonderboy was scum? Or that both playerboy and onlywonderboy were town? Tell me what you were thinking.
I wasn't the deciding factor.. I was hoping that Zaragon would switch his vote to heavenz but I wasn't 100% sure on onlywonderboy, I wanted to vote him so that he would defend himself and we could clear himself but I still wasn't sure he was town... with his flip we can go after heavenz and playerboy... both were pushing OWB pretty hard and both are scummy.
Heavenz didn't claim RB... he claimed getting roleblocked. I don't know how that tells us he is town. He says he is vt, but he seemed pretty pissed off that he was roleblocked, that's why I think he's scum.
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makes sense the discription of the mafia is:
goon
roleblocker
gf
and with bereft using his roleblock before he died there were supposed to be 2 roleblocks. I am convinced that playerboy is town, I am town too.
I suggest you look at JohnnyLaw and Balla24.
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On September 30 2013 07:46 Koshi wrote:
Bella
Why did you vote for heavenz. Like what is there not to believe about a RB? Why did you think Heavenz claimed RB.
Heavenz
Why didn't you claim RB instantly? You could have been seen as probably town from the start of the day.
I didn't feel like posting in the nighttime
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I also don't understand why you are keeping that cop check away from thread. The first one to die will be you because you are confirmed town dude.
I will try and think what we need to do tomorrow.
It looks like if it rolls 1 B (5% chance) then there is a town roleblocker as well. So 2 roleblocks make sense. I guess yeah that makes sense rofl. ok.
So heavenz will really be roleblocked & me as well. Now the question is why heavenz adds a I am a VT guys on top of that. Just claim RB and nothing else. At the fucking start of the day.
This means that town power roles are RB, Cop and 1 shot vigi. Guess I have to see what that means with the stupid letters. This means that heavenz might be scum/sk and therefore there was only 1 kill. The setup says there is 50% on SK.
I guess it is 5vs2 atm in a 10vs3 setup. Or it is 5vs1vs1 if there is an SK. Safe to say that Zaragon is going to die as confirmed townie rofl.
TTTTTTT = Goon + Godfather, Serial Killer (Investigation Immune OR 1-Shot Bulletproof)
TTTTTT = Goon + Godfather
TTTTT = Goon + Godfather, Serial Killer (Investigation Immune OR 1-Shot Bulletproof)
TTTT = 2 Goons + Roleblocker
TTT = 2 Goons + Roleblocker, Serial Killer (Investigation Immune OR 1-Shot Bulletproof)
TT = Goon + Roleblocker + Godfather
T = Goon + Roleblocker + Godfather, Serial Killer (Investigation Immune OR 1-Shot Bulletproof)
0 Ts = Goon + Roleblocker + Godfather
So there is a max of 4 antitown roles. So if there is an SK, you better fucking shoot scum or you lose the game. Remember that if scum equals town they win. Didn't read the rules but it is always that. So 4 antitowns would mean 4 vs 3 atm and then as SK you HAVE to shoot scum.
If there are 2 kills make sure you lynch heavenz. If scum isn't too bad they sent 2 people to carry out kills. This is a freebie tip for the scummers and I hope FT did his job there rofl.
So 2 kills makes heavenz confirmed SK. Or FT failed his coaching and you go into 1/1/1 kingmaker.
arfff it is too late and I have a lot of work tomorrow. But I will check the thread.
Leave a shitton of posts here plz. Think about the setup but trow all your reads + reasoning on the table as well.
I ll catch up tomorrow. Sleep well.
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On September 30 2013 08:13 heavenz wrote:Show nested quote +On September 30 2013 07:46 Koshi wrote:
Bella
Why did you vote for heavenz. Like what is there not to believe about a RB? Why did you think Heavenz claimed RB.
Heavenz
Why didn't you claim RB instantly? You could have been seen as probably town from the start of the day. I didn't feel like posting in the nighttime
What? You get RB message after the night? Like wtf? Is this the worst claim in mafia history?
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Also ignore the things I said about kingmaker. Pretty sure I am totes wrong there. Too tired.
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On September 30 2013 08:09 heavenz wrote:
makes sense the discription of the mafia is:
goon
roleblocker
gf
and with bereft using his roleblock before he died there were supposed to be 2 roleblocks. I am convinced that playerboy is town, I am town too.
I suggest you look at JohnnyLaw and Balla24.
How do you know how the scum team looks like? It could be something totally different.
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On September 30 2013 08:21 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On September 30 2013 08:13 heavenz wrote:On September 30 2013 07:46 Koshi wrote:
Bella
Why did you vote for heavenz. Like what is there not to believe about a RB? Why did you think Heavenz claimed RB.
Heavenz
Why didn't you claim RB instantly? You could have been seen as probably town from the start of the day. I didn't feel like posting in the nighttime What? You get RB message after the night? Like wtf? Is this the worst claim in mafia history?
No I think he's saying that the day starts when he's asleep or something... i dunno
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Night Koshi, thanks for contributions.
I guess there can be no doc role in this setup then?
Which makes me comfortable to say my town check was JonnyLaw.
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On September 30 2013 08:23 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On September 30 2013 08:09 heavenz wrote:
makes sense the discription of the mafia is:
goon
roleblocker
gf
and with bereft using his roleblock before he died there were supposed to be 2 roleblocks. I am convinced that playerboy is town, I am town too.
I suggest you look at JohnnyLaw and Balla24. How do you know how the scum team looks like? It could be something totally different.
I was talking to the cop tho to find out
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On September 30 2013 08:29 Zaragon wrote:
Night Koshi, thanks for contributions.
I guess there can be no doc role in this setup then?
Which makes me comfortable to say my town check was JonnyLaw.
can you detect gf in this setup?
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Could be GF or Investigation Immune SK, so it's not exactly 100%, and no way to find out that I know.
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On September 30 2013 08:13 heavenz wrote:Show nested quote +On September 30 2013 07:46 Koshi wrote:
Bella
Why did you vote for heavenz. Like what is there not to believe about a RB? Why did you think Heavenz claimed RB.
Heavenz
Why didn't you claim RB instantly? You could have been seen as probably town from the start of the day. I didn't feel like posting in the nighttime
Explain this better heavenz.
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And then 1 more thing.
If you guys are bored. Could anybody see how many T's there are with a 1shot vig, 1shot cop and a town RB. Let's assume there weren't 2 of those B's because it is only 5% chance that gets rolled, but maybe there is also 1 shot doc and shit like that so nha nvm...
We will think about it tomorrow. rofl. I suck at going to bed.
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On September 30 2013 09:08 stormtemplar wrote:
Hey guys, this whole chain of events has left me a little confused, I'm going to have to spend some time reading through it, but I'll try to have something by the end of the night. Zaragon, since you expect to die tomorrow, are you going to share your cop read at some point tonight.
I did, it's JonnyLaw.
And depending on our setup (I've calculated a bit in the C9++ and we should have only 2 goons + Roleblocker mafia team) he might be 100% confirmed town. Only possible SK or GF if we have an unclaimed role which needs to come out right now (unless it's a Doc)
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So, the two remaining mafia are a Godfather and Roleblocker, and if we have a medic (or more than one, but unlikely in this scenario for even one) we have a Serial Killer. I hope I'm not misreading C9++.
That's sticky.
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Heavenz is just claiming Vanilla Town I think, so no second vigi.
But obviously the game is still pretty open now for the coming LYLO, and my cop check on JonnyLaw is not of as much value except to significantly lower the odds that he's scum.
I doubt a Doc at this point, but we could have. I'm not sure I'd be glad if we did since it means an SK at LYLO.
Anyway, no more time tonight for me to look into this. Should be a lot for everyone to discuss, and heavenz gets a slight credibility boost since Stormtemplar supports his story. I'm personally not as certain as I was on heavenz/playerboy mafia, though it's still my best bet.
Hmm so Koshi is just about confirmed town getting Roleblocked by mafia. We're down to pretty few options and possible fake claim combinations at this point.
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Wait what, why would mafia roleblock an afk? That doesn't make sense...
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I thought so as well at first, but then I've made a lot of mistakes this game so I can prove my idiocy already.
Ok I'm trying to look at as many angles as possible (even if I ought to be looking at my other current Mafia game or sleeping). The most obvious scum team is heavenz + playerboy. Jonnylaw is against playerboy, Balla is against heavenz. Stormtemplar and I are against heavenz + playerboy
Possible scum teams:
heavenz/playerboy
JonnyLaw (GF)/Balla (RB)
JonnyLaw (GF)/heavenz (RB)
playerboy/Balla
Without thinking outside the box and unlikely possibilities (though it's going to be LYLO, so once one confirmed town dies tonight, we have to consider everything). Because of my cop check, the JonnyLaw/Heavenz combo is 100% heavenz Roleblocker, and as RB, successfully getting his RB off while being RBed. This is not possible, I believe? I think not, which makes this scum team impossible.
A scum team with heavenz in it is more likely to Roleblock Blurry N1 than the other combinations, IMO. More support for heavenz/playerboy as a scum team.
The only line of thinking for likely scum teams I haven't investigated at all is playerboy/Balla and JonnyLaw/Balla
Filter diving on any connections or contradictions to base my own call on tomorrow (or this morning, if insomnia decides).
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I'm still not sold on the fact that Heavenz isn't scum just because he was roleblocked, especially when we know it wasn't a mafia roleblock. You all saw how "fuck it all" he was when he got roleblocked. I'm scared of SK and he's the only one who seems like an SK at this point.
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There still could be a doc too so don't assume you will be dying, but do get all the information out there that you have (Zaragon/Stormtemplar)
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There would need to be 1 unclaimed doctor, not 1-shot doctor. There is already an explanation for why there was one NK, you blocked the SK... is the unclaimed doctor so hard to believe? Doctor should never come out unless it is a game winning move.
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Also, who did Bereft roleblock? There should be 3 total roleblocks on night 1 right?
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You haven't been under suspicion for a while now, and you claiming that you roleblocked heavenz makes perfect sense. I 100% believe you. It is an easy thing to claim though so maybe we should re-think that. The fact that you even bring that up though makes me believe you even more.
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I'm not sold on anyone to be fair. I wanted heavenz...he responded. I went back to my original read. storm's safe enough for now. I still say we should have lynched heavenz or playerboy.
If you want my feeling on this game. I want to lynch someone who will give the town info by doing so. I wanted storm day1 and it was not going to happen. I thought Mluneth had a chance of being mafia; not high but a chance, and I played on it.
I thought owb had a very, very slight chance so I didnt wanna make the same mistake.
playerboy and heavenz; one is mafia. If we had lynched one of them yesterday it'd be easier to choose.
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On September 30 2013 11:32 JonnyLaw wrote:
I'm not sold on anyone to be fair. I wanted heavenz...he responded. I went back to my original read. storm's safe enough for now. I still say we should have lynched heavenz or playerboy.
If you want my feeling on this game. I want to lynch someone who will give the town info by doing so. I wanted storm day1 and it was not going to happen. I thought Mluneth had a chance of being mafia; not high but a chance, and I played on it.
I thought owb had a very, very slight chance so I didnt wanna make the same mistake.
playerboy and heavenz; one is mafia. If we had lynched one of them yesterday it'd be easier to choose.
i think owb did give us some info, did it not? not that it's ever good to kill a towny, but now we know for sure that out of playerboy/heavenz there is at least 1 scum... maybe 2.
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EBWOP: Well, not for sure but chances are VERY high.
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Filters aren't telling me much new. I really should have swapped onto heavenz or stayed on playerboy all along.
There are other scum teams possible with careful bussing, but essentially the entire day 1 was meaningless because of lurkers, and I am just not getting better reads. heavenz and playerboy make sense. Minimal bussing for major active players, both made very scummy plays. heavenz shifted reads a lot, including town reading playerboy at a critical juncture, going from some careful suspicion early on.
This could almost be a scum slip, and I should definitely have spotted it sooner:
On September 30 2013 03:49 heavenz wrote:
you mentioned it probably, but playerboys voting behavior is scummy. It almost seems like he knew that mylunch was town, and went for wounderboy knowing he wouldn't get a majority on that player that time, effectivly throwing his vote away, just to get some town credit (or end up on the misslynch group).
then again, I share berefts thoughts on wounderboy, and have to agree with playboy that he never participated in anyway in a analysis of a player he thought was scummy. He just posted like I feel bad about him, but never bothered to do dig deeper.
On September 30 2013 03:56 heavenz wrote:
imho you're town
On September 30 2013 04:07 heavenz wrote:
if we lynch onlywounderboy it has the advantage that it would clear playboy, the otherway around it wouldn't yield much.
On September 30 2013 04:07 heavenz wrote:
edit: it has the possiblity that it could clear* sorry.
Think I'm done diving and digging, I'm set. heavenz and playerboy mafia, anything else, low chance for me.
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On September 30 2013 11:04 Balla24 wrote:
Wait what, why would mafia roleblock an afk? That doesn't make sense...
I think town RB might have blocked blurry. Scum RB heavenz. Don't know yet need to read thread.
Just letting you guys know I am here.
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Ahh ffs. Bereft was town roleblocker. He already flipped. ffs that is bad. Did somebody look for his RB breadcrumb? Does anybody know who he RB?
Disregard everything I said yesterday btw. It was all bad.
I got confirmation from host that SK can even hold his shots forever. So ignore everything I said about heavenz.
Also the scum winconditions are not kill all townies. Because when all townies are dead they can still lose vs the SK. If it is goon/gf vs bulletproof SK last night. Or share victory if they would have shot each other.
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On September 30 2013 09:30 stormtemplar wrote:
Yeah, 7 rolls
C would give us a 1- Shot cop
We know we have a 1 shot vigi and a Town RB from flips so thats VB
CVB
if heavenz and I are both legit, that would require a VVVBBBC, which would be the max number of town power roles. Mafia would consist of a RB and a godfather. There wouldn't be an SK and a doctor is impossible.
Can somebody explain this? Are you claiming a powerrole stormtemplar? Or did you think you were a vigi? Mluneth already flipped 1 shot vigi.
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Ok so I am going to think stormtemplar is a simple vt. Don't claim if not needed but you are confusing me.
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TTTTBVC seems like the setup atm unless more blues are hiding which is ofcourse a possibility. Please correct me when I am wrong. I am just running with what I know and I will constantly update.
TTTT means that there are 2 goons and a scum RB. Which also is consistant with what we know.
If there is 1 more powerrole hiding on townside it is likely a doc, can't believe another 2 powerrole letters were generated. This means that there is likely going to be an SK because TTT is (TTT = 2 Goons + Roleblocker, Serial Killer (Investigation Immune OR 1-Shot Bulletproof) ).
The chance on something more than a doc is close to 0.
_____________
TTTTBVC means we play vs a roleblocker and 2 goons.
I am going to give Zaragon a townread, I just read his filter. He constantly tried to push this game forward, the offchance he is scum I applaud him for trying to make a game out of this. On top of that I believe his claim.
This means JonnyLaw is also town.
So we are stuck with these 4 in which the remaining 2 scummers are hiding:
playerboy345
heavenz
stormtemplar
Balla24
I am going to claim VT. Hopefully you guys believe me. Blurry wasn't the guy he was from his previous game, but his opening post was pretty protown. Obviously this is far from enough, and with only 3 posts after that I know you don't want to give him a townread.
Lets trow some Hostwifom in the thread as well. It's the worst kinda wifom but why not. So the host had to choose between modkilling 4 people. This could have been SK,scum,town. I think we can agree he was always going to modkill the SK if there was one between the 4 modkills. So the question is was it 3VT and 1 scum, or was it 2 scum and 2 VT. I think that could go either way. So sadly I can't modconfirm me as townie D:
This all said let's go back to our 4 targets and let's pretend I am VT.
playerboy345
heavenz (claimed vt+rb)
stormtemplar (town for these reasons here and here. I find this guy is townier than Zaragon tbh. Zaragon has his claim though, and because I don't want to retype everything I am keeping stormtemplar here.
Balla24
Now out of these 3 players I don't know who I like the least yet. I am think bereft RB on Blurry because bereft respected blurry from the previous games and might have thought he was mafia lurking. I need to read bereft his filter and see if he breadcrumbed his RB. I truly hope he did. But if you breadcrumb something you do it to prove your blue role and not to let the thread know what you did so I doubt I will find it. But the filters are small this game.
I say this because I have issues with how Balla24 trow his vote around on day 2. Why not believe the RB claim? I almost think it makes him town, because scum knows that they have a RB and they knows bereft flipped RB. Like... Why not believe 1 RB claim if you know there should have been 2 claims... On the other hand it could be that Bella is scum and RB on Blurry and he forgot that there was a RB flipped on townside or something... I really don't understand it.
So yeah. I think we should look at those 3 players and find scum there.
Ohyeah. If there is another powerrole... Probably doc. I don't know. But if it is between those last 3... I would claim tbh. Because that means that there are still 2 scums and an SK left. And then the SK is going to be Stormtemplar. I don't know if you need to claim though.
Is Zaragon town guys?
If he is then we have towncheck on jonny.
I find Stormtemplar very protown. Agreed?
If there is a blue role hiding. Look what you are, and how many letters were randomed for your role. Do you believe Zaragon? If you do these are the options left.
TTT = 2 Goons + Roleblocker, Serial Killer (Investigation Immune OR 1-Shot Bulletproof)
TT = Goon + Roleblocker + Godfather
As you can see 1 letter means there is still 3 antitown left and this game can be over tomorrow lol.
But if you rolled a 2 letter role this means that jonny might be scum godfather.
That's all I have for now.
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^ if you don't follow what I am saying please let me know. Don't dare to lurk if you are town. Just say something.
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If you are scum, show some balls and come out to play :D
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http://hydra-media.cursecdn.com/dota2.gamepedia.com/0/09/Invo_begin_01.mp3
Let's take a look at the voting.
Day1
BajaBlood was going with his vote right of the bat for xIvan. I doubt any mafia player would just start bussing his teammate in a situation like this when there are 3 other afk players.
He was away on day2 and now, but this is a big town tell for me.
The afk wave: Playerboy is voting for Jayte , Zaragon for Blurry, Onlywounderboy on Blurry, Baja switches to Jayte, Bella for Blurry
JonnyLaw and I start talking about the point that it's more value to not lynch someone who's afk (and eventually be modkilled / replaced)
He votes for Stormtemplar, Heavenz too
The votecount is as follows then:
Blurry (3): Zaragon, onlywonderboy, Balla24
Jayte (2): playerboy345, BajaBlood
stormtemplar (2): JonnyLaw, heavenz
xIvanJ (0): BajaBlood
playerboy unvotes and votes on onlywonderboy, Stormtemplar on Blurry, Bereft on Jayte
Then Zaragon posts this and starts the lynch train on Myluneth
Got caught up in an intriguing conversation with a friend, now the hour is late.
MLuneth is the only person who has posted considerable amounts that I would vote for. I don't know if he's bad town or scum either, it's strange to assert himself like he does as either town or scum and then not to be responding now. Feels like scum constructing a case and dropping off at suspicions.
I wanted to push Blurry to contribute, he hasn't. I'm comfortable switching off him for now since he doesn't even seem to be coming in to vote.
##Vote MLuneth
Since he had some suspicious posts which I mentioned and general consent that he was weird , and it was the generall consent that Zaragon is towny,
Jonnylaw on MLuneth
I want to call this guy scum from my gut. I really, really want to do it. But re-reading his posts just make me think he's a bit hasty and not scum at all. There are grammatical errors, shortened words and that half written post he managed to post. I dunno, he doesn't feel like mafia at this point in the game.
My take on the case:
I also don't think you're suspicious. Like I said too I don't want to vote Blurry or Bereft.
From the active players Stormtemplar and Mluneth are suspicious
then we have still Jeyte and xIvanJ, I would be willing to vote them too though
Strong town read on:
Me, Bella24, Zaragon, onlywounderboy,
good:
Baja Blood, Jonny Law
Suspicious
Stormtemplar,Mluneth (100% of his posts are suspicious, but that's so over the top that it would be odd if he was mafia)
I wouldn't be surprised if there was a playerboy & stormtemplar mafia.
This is where I failed, I think Jonny failed there too. Both of us acknowledge that Mluneth is somewhat scummy, yet both of us also acknowledge that he's probably town. What we can see is the vote swing now:
Jonny and I don't want to lynch lurkers as it wouldn't really give us something, Zaragon who is playing cleanly suggests Myluneth, and time is short, we are not going to get more votes on Stormtemplar. My priority was to keep Blurry alive too, I was willing to vote some afk, but time was short, Blurry was set, we didn't get majority on Storm, I followed Zaragon on Mluneth, in the hope that his read was better than mine.
Jonnylaw votes Myluneth, Heavenz votes Myluneth
Bella24 votes for Myluneth
Myluneth get's killed and is 1shot vigi.
final votecount:
Blurry (2): Zaragon, onlywonderboy, Balla24, stormtemplar
Jayte (2): playerboy345, BajaBlood, Bereft
stormtemplar (0): JonnyLaw, heavenz
xIvanJ (0): BajaBlood
onlywonderboy (1): playerboy345
MLuneth (4): Zaragon, JohnnyLaw, heavenz, Balla24
From this everyone should be able to draw some conclusion for himself, I want to point something out too.
Balla24
@JonnyLaw I'm not sold on stormtemplar's behavior being scummy. I would like to both hear more from you about it on why you think his posts have been scummy and also stormtemplar's defense. But at this point I'm not really reading scum from his posts besides the fact that he hasn't really shared tooo much about his reads and has just been going off of others. At least he is disagreeing with people which I like.
EBWOP: oh they aren't going to vote probably so they will get modkilled, my bad! In that case I will wait a little longer. I'm not feeling stormtemplar as scum still. Jonnylaw can you please elaborate on why you think he's scummy?
Ugh sorry I got distracted in some SC2 games, didn't expect this much to happen, let me see if anything would change my mind. MLuneth was suspicious to me before but it didn't seem like anybody else agreed except Zaragon. I would be comfortable lynching him rather than stormtemplar, but I still think we need to be looking at these inactive people and not relying on the modkills.
My take on the thing:
you're acting as if mluneth isn't an afker, not voting = modkilled/ replaced...
we have 4 people not voting tonight
Playerboys
I'm not too comfortable with the MLuneth lynch to be honest, I really don't get that much of a scum read from him :/
Balla24s
@heavenz yeah but he's less of an afker than the rest.. it's impossible to make a vote when all the suspects are fucking afk T_T
Read Balla24s defense, he was not willing to argue on Stromtemplar in the least.
I would be comfortable lynching him rather than stormtemplar, but I still think we need to be looking at these inactive people and not relying on the modkills
He even would rather go for the away player even though we mostly agreed that it would be a useless lynch. All to deviate from Stormtemplar.
Note how Stormtemplar voted for Blurry, didn't participate at all in the discussion.
(Bella24 on his 1. nightpost after the lynch)
I'm still not very convinced about stormtemplar. Waiting for his defense, he was here recently and should definitely be posting his defense. Hopefully, if he is scum, we can see some holes and I can hop on board the jonnylaw/heavenz train.
Day2
Stormtemplars defense; he posts a list with the names of all active players and a sentence to each, then this.
As for the attacks on me, I do agree that I need to play better and this post is an attempt to do so. Still, I think some of the analysis of my actual posts is off the mark. I especially find it odd that someone criticized my lack of contribution, then when I pointed out my feelings about playerboy he claimed I was trying to distract the discussion. It seems a little contradictory to claim I didn't read enough, then when I do, that I'm just trying to distract the discussion.
Further:
EBWOP: One thing to mention is that blurry said he'd post reads of everyone before the night is out, and we have two hours to go and still nothing. He could post in the next two hours, but if he doesn't I'd be rather suspicious.
then Balla24's next post is:
Alright it's the end of night 1 and still nothing from Blurry (who said he would post a full analysis by the end of the night) and the other guys, xIvanJ and Jayte.
Playerboy quotes the guys on the bandwagon too, (Zaragon, Balla24, onlywonderboy) with this question
These three vote for Blurry, why?
Zaragon votes him based on Blurry's meta. In the previous game Blurry had a good opening post much like in this game, the difference between this game and the previous game is that in the previous game Blurry continued to contribute and in the current game he didn't. This is just such an easy thing to pick on - the reason that he hasn't really contributed that much is because he has been inactive.
onlywonderboy picks it as a safe bet because he won't be able to be online for the deadline.
I don't understand why Balla24 is voting for Blurry here though, he didn't seem all that interested in Blurry before, so why pick him over Jayte/xIvanJ who are just as inactive as Blurry.
Playerboy does some quality work unlike the rest of the guys who lazy sit back and write a line to each player once a day
Also note that Balla24 switches his vote to MLuneth aswell. He says he's the only suspicious person besides the afkers, while I can agree that his posting was indeed odd, it doesn't explain his sudden switch. He agrees with BajaBlood:
On September 27 2013 06:53 BajaBlood wrote:
Yes, in his other game (as scum) he was very sheepy early on until he started getting accused, then got aggresively defensive (think the word they used in the thread was 'shitflinging', lol). Whereas in this game, he's making reads right off the bat and playing much more in-your-face.
I think his heavenz read was terrible, and a number of his other posts (including the question) are bizzare, but I'm not reading it as scum yet.
Plus if we keep him around and he is in fact scum I think we'll have an easier time classifying him then some other players
What BajaBlood says is don't lynch MLuneth because if he is scum it'll be easy to tell. WHY DO YOU VOTE HIM IF YOU AGREE THAT LETTING HIM LIVE FOR ANOTHER DAY WILL MAKE IT EASY TO TELL IF HE IS SCUM OR NOT? I'm sorry but that just makes absolutely 0 sense to me.
onlywonderboy: You say Blurry flew under the radar for you and that is why you voted him. Then what about the other inactives, you are not gonna tell me they didn't flew under the radar, right? So why DID you vote for Blurry? Were you in a hurry because you had to leave and left with a half-assed post? Or did you just decide to vote for him because your mafia teammates (assuming both Balla24 and Zaragon are scum) did so you could boost the votes in your favor?
I don't got much proof and this is basically just theorycrafting but I think Zaragon/Balla24/onlywonderboy might be our scum combo.
Let me know what you guys think.
sadly you were slightly off bro, but at that point we weren't yet able to make the case against the scum.
I am also not going to post all of Stormtemplars "defense". It was stuff like this, read his filter.
Playerboy has been actively useless. The main two people he's called out have been zaragon and bereft, which is just odd. As I pointed out in my analysis, I'm really weirded out by the fact that he read me as stronger town then zaragon or bereft. As glad as I am to have someone coming to my defense, I just find it doubtful that someone could look at day one from and town perspective and hold that view. I almost wonder if he's trying to make me look guilty by association, or get town cred by defending me. I gotta say, it sounds ideal for him as mafia for him to unsuccessfully defend me, I flip town and he gets cred and Jonnylaw looks like scum for attacking me so much.
However back to the voting, playerboy made a solid case, which was a bit off, zaragon was confirmed town, and he couldn't yet vote for Balla24.
I pushed Onlywonderboy too, he hadn't contributed, and I didn't see that we get Stormtemplar against the will of Zaragon and Balla24, there was a chance that he was scum too, as even Bereft thought so.
One more, in case you didn't had enough
Alright, I wasn't posting to let the stormtemplar/jonnylaw conversation continue a little while. I wasn't digging stormtemplar for mafia, and i'm still not really sure. He responds to jonnylaw's pressure well IMO. I don't think he seemed angry and he brings up the point of him bussing playerboy early on (if both were mafia).
both were pushing for me on day2, but everyone can see that in their filters.
Day2 voting
Stormtemplar for playerboy
playerboy for onlywonderboy, bella24 for onlywonderboy, heavenz for onlywonderboy, Zaragon for onlywonderboy
onlywonderboy for heavenz
Bella24 unvote
Jonnylaw for playerboy
Bella24 for heavenz
Final Votecount!
onlywonderboy (3): playerboy345, Balla24, heavenz, Zaragon
playerboy345 (2): stormtemplar, JonnyLaw
heavenz (2): onlywonderboy, Balla24
Blurry (1): Blurry
Not voting (3): xIvanJ, Jayte, BajaBlood
onlywonderboy, Vanilla Townie, was lynched!
If we look again at the voting behavior we will see a exact repeat of day1. Stormtemplar votes away, with the lnych vote for playerboy and the afk when the voting/lynch time comes.
Baja24 jumps on the lynch train and makes certain we get the misslynch
I'm gonna put my vote on onlywonderboy (##vote: onlywonderboy), he needs to defend himself. If there is no defense in an hour or so I will remove for the time being and reconsider. I don't want to make the same mistake as last day so I'm going to be here the entire time.
then votes me
##vote Heavenz
I don't buy it, and I don't understand why you do Zaragon and after this goes through I'd like to hear why you buy it.
Notice also how only Stormtemplar and Balla24 start accusin me of beeing sk, without there beeing any evidence that there is a SK (I don't think so)
Bella24
I wasn't the deciding factor.. I was hoping that Zaragon would switch his vote to heavenz but I wasn't 100% sure on onlywonderboy, I wanted to vote him so that he would defend himself and we could clear himself but I still wasn't sure he was town... with his flip we can go after heavenz and playerboy... both were pushing OWB pretty hard and both are scummy.
calling your vote not the deciding factor is nice. Better make sure the lynch train is going and then having "not the deciding vote".
I'm still not sold on the fact that Heavenz isn't scum just because he was roleblocked, especially when we know it wasn't a mafia roleblock. You all saw how "fuck it all" he was when he got roleblocked. I'm scared of SK and he's the only one who seems like an SK at this point
mafia trying to make town belive in SK to stop the scumhunt.
3rd Point, the Roleblock
What we know: Bereft was Roleblocker.
What we can safly assume (going by the Mafia given roles, Goon, RB, GF): The Mafia has a Roleblocker
Who claimed beeing Roleblocked: Blurry, Heavenz
We have no evidence of a 3rd Roleblocker.
Stormtemplar
Ah, alright, didn't know if an unclaimed should come out. I will then: I'm a town roleblocker, I suspected heavenz and playerboy night one, and decided to block heavenz last minute over playerboy.
Bella24 regard Stormtemplar
You haven't been under suspicion for a while now, and you claiming that you roleblocked heavenz makes perfect sense. I 100% believe you. It is an easy thing to claim though so maybe we should re-think that. The fact that you even bring that up though makes me believe you even more.
Truth. I belive him too, that he is a Roleblocker, I don't think he's town however. My day1 play was decent, I made some points, which I where further explained in this post. He decides to roleblock me.
The Roleblock on Blurry makes on first glance no sense, but when we see that Bereft was the Roleblocker, and we know that both played in the last game too, where Blurry played endlessly better than he, he was suspicious of him "staying under cover" too and thus roleblocked him.
The conclusion:
http://hydra-media.cursecdn.com/dota2.gamepedia.com/d/db/Invo_level_05.mp3
Point1. Day1 voting.
Stormtemplar nullvote; afk, Bella24 defending him (I don't feel he's guilty, wait for his defence etc.)
Point2 Night1/Day2
Stormtemplars defense, Bella24's defense of Stormtemplar, both vs playerboy, both on me as SK
Point3 Day2 voting
Stormtemplar nullvote; afk. Bella24 riding lynchtrain, jumping off to further improve point2
Point4 Roleblock /Scumslip
No evidence of 3 Roleblockers, Not likely that Scum has 2 goons and Gf, Not likely that town has 2 Roleblockers, very likely that town has 1 Roleblocker and Scum 1 Roleblocker (the given roles). Very likely that scum roleblocked me night1, stormtemplar claimed he roleblocked me, Bella24 supported/defended him immidiatly.
=>Stormtemplar Scum Roleblocker, Bella24 GF
Thank me later, if there's and SK call me... maybe?
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Heavenz
Who is the extra powerrole on town?
When were you RB? Why did you wait so long to say something?
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Also why is it strange that Bella wants to vote an inactive over Stormtemplar if Stormtemplar is a townread for him?
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On September 30 2013 09:18 stormtemplar wrote:
Ah, alright, didn't know if an unclaimed should come out. I will then: I'm a town roleblocker, I suspected heavenz and playerboy night one, and decided to block heavenz last minute over playerboy.
AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
How did I miss this?
Ah ffs.
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DISREGARD A LOT OFF WHAT I HAVE SAID AGAIN....
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heavenz If stormtemplar is a scum roleblocker the setup is TTTTBVC Remember that scum roleblocker does not give 2 extra B's in the draft.
So that means that Bella24 is just a goon and not a GF for your theory. Which doesn't change anything.
But it is interesting that you come to the conclusion that there is a GF. I wonder if this is a scumslip because stormtemplar is really a town roleblocker and you know there is a GF. You just swapped the names around.
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I am going to believe stormtemplar tbh. There was no reason for him to claim RB after a RB already flipped. wtf the chances of this setup are low. like REALLY LOW. I can't believe this shit...
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On September 30 2013 09:18 stormtemplar wrote:
Ah, alright, didn't know if an unclaimed should come out. I will then: I'm a town roleblocker, I suspected heavenz and playerboy night one, and decided to block heavenz last minute over playerboy.
My good man, do you realize that what you say is that when the setup was made, the hosts rolled 3 times between number 95-100 out of 7? Ugh.
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Hosts, did you rng this set-up or made the set-up manually?
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Heavenz, go back to my day 1 filter and look at exactly what I was saying in regards to stormtemplar. It was on YOU and Jonnylaw to provide evidence of why he was scum because I just couldn't find any. When you were asked for more, only Jonnylaw was able to provide more but I still wasn't sold. MLuneth made logical sense to me at the time, and we've been through this like 4 times.
On day2 voting. I wasn't the deciding vote... not at all. I voted on Heavenz to try to get support from Jonnylaw and Zaragon but that didn't happen. Zaragon was the deciding vote. I was very clear on my voting stance on day 2. I said at the beginning of voting what my plan was, to vote on OWB to get him to defend himself and then reconsider. That's exactly what I did.. Maybe I should have switched earlier or something to get more people to think about it but I didn't so you live and you learn.
On stormtemplar being scum roleblocker. You're right, he definitely could be and I should not blindly believe him. That actually makes more sense. Bereft roleblocks Blurry and stormtemplar roleblocks you. Stormtemplar has just played less scum then you all game and he got my backing with my tunnel vision. I won't believe stormtemplar as town RB until there is more proof.
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On September 30 2013 21:20 Koshi wrote:
I am going to believe stormtemplar tbh. There was no reason for him to claim RB after a RB already flipped. wtf the chances of this setup are low. like REALLY LOW. I can't believe this shit...
That's true too. Looking at the way he claimed it and how he talks openly about how we shouldn't trust him is really a town tell. Or a really good scum player.
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On September 30 2013 09:18 stormtemplar wrote:
Ah, alright, didn't know if an unclaimed should come out. I will then: I'm a town roleblocker, I suspected heavenz and playerboy night one, and decided to block heavenz last minute over playerboy.
On September 30 2013 11:27 stormtemplar wrote:
Also, random question, I don't exactly follow why everyone is so sure I'm town after I claimed. I presume there's a reason but what is it?
This is what i'm talking about btw.
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Just a random thought, Heavenz could be the scum RB and not SK which could explain why he was so angry when he got roleblocked. This makes some amount of sense and it allows for him to have a scum teammate in playerboy.
and I'm not going to drop the fact that he was angry because to me that signifies that he was a role and he was acting retardedly... just look at his beginning of day 2 action it was just silly.. if he was VT he would have just claimed to be RB'ed and that was it. what does it matter if you get RB'ed.
- his sudden switch on onlywonderboy (pretty sure he's town on day1 -> HES SCUM on day2 with no explanation)
- the possible slip that zaragon pointed out
- calling me the deciding vote when he was even more of a deciding vote than I was... you could have hammered playerboy but you didn't because you've been defending him(more indication that there is a scum pair here). I couldn't hammer anyone.
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You do your nightactions even if you die.
Storm who did you roleblock and did you crumb it?
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No, he roleblocked Heavenz. He already said that...
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Ah ok soz. Yeah reading is hard :D. It's night and not doing to much real digging atm. Just setting things straight in my head. Guess crumb not really needed because there is no counterclaim.
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Ok Bella can you tell me why zaragon thinks you are town. I am a bit torn atm. Tomorrow scum needs to be lynched. It's somewhat funny that they need to kill storm now. Because if we lynch the roleblocker then storm can keep them from delivering NK and town should always win. Dnu how that works tbh .
I need to know why people are town. Or you need to discuss it. If you believe the RB claim, then we need to consider the cop checked the gf as well.... Would be unlucky but yeah...
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Also, storm, never claim during a night phase. I think you just told scum to kill you. And your role is the only blue role we had left.
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Zaragon thinks I am town due to process of elimination. Last I heard is he thought I was in a possible mafia pair with playerboy or Jonnylaw but he decided that is the most unlikely case as the heavenz/playerboy is a much higher possibility based on the flow of the game. At least that's what I think he is thinking.
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Ugh why would you bring that up man? This is a newbie game it might not have been clear what their kill was.
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Well we will see. Tomorrow we need to use our brain and crank up activity. Stop making big ass posts and start having fast conversations with each other. Address each other points and ask simple questions. And be prepared to answer them.
Heavenz You have been dodging all the questions I ask you. I need to know when you are available for 30 mins so we can have a quick talk.
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Bella, do you think jonny is godfather?
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I don't know... it could be anybody except Zaragon and Stormtemplar i guess. Just because he was checked and it returned town doesn't mean he could be godfather though. The way he has been playing doesn't indicate scum to me though.
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Yeah wanted to know if he could be scum.
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I am here
Heavenz
Who is the extra powerrole on town?
When were you RB? Why did you wait so long to say something?
1) no clue
2) night one, was it long? I don't remember
Also why is it strange that Bella wants to vote an inactive over Stormtemplar if Stormtemplar is a townread for him? coz they would get modkilled anyway
heavenz If stormtemplar is a scum roleblocker the setup is TTTTBVC Remember that scum roleblocker does not give 2 extra B's in the draft.
So that means that Bella24 is just a goon and not a GF for your theory. Which doesn't change anything.
But it is interesting that you come to the conclusion that there is a GF. I wonder if this is a scumslip because stormtemplar is really a town roleblocker and you know there is a GF. You just swapped the names around.
I don't know what the letters mean or how you know there is no gf.
I was juding by my last game where we had GF,Framer,Goon
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On September 30 2013 22:37 Koshi wrote:
Hosts, did you rng this set-up or made the set-up manually?
RNG, as per the setup page.
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On October 01 2013 02:00 Koshi wrote:
Bella, do you think jonny is godfather?
this was my 2nd guess, Jonny GF and Bella goon, it's viable too. It's harder to make a case again, because the mafia played excelent then.
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Look here heavenz, http://wiki.mafiascum.net/?title=C9++ there can't be a GF in your case. Not that it will change your mind, but for future games so that you can be aware of how the setups work.
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On October 01 2013 02:53 Balla24 wrote:Look here heavenz, http://wiki.mafiascum.net/?title=C9++ there can't be a GF in your case. Not that it will change your mind, but for future games so that you can be aware of how the setups work.
ofcourse not. I don't really care about those letters, unless we know almost all roles they serve no purpose, If Zaragon would check you and tell me you're clean, and he can make a resonable post that it's impossible for a gf to exist then I wouldn't think you're scum.
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We know all roles unless they lie about their role...
storm claimed second town RB.
Which has the lowest chance of happening. I almost want to lynch the guy.
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Ok if I'm setting everything correctly in my head... Either we believe Stormtemplar is town RB, RBing heavenz who is scum RB, Bereft RBing Blurry as town, if his RB goes through on death? Or Stormtemplar scum RB, RBing heavenz and we have a Doctor or something. And Bereft would still have RBed Blurry.
If that's really the case, it narrows down the field a lot since it means heavenz or Stormtemplar must be mafia, correct? I wasn't inclined to believe both of them can be, since Stormtemplar is quite willing to kill heavenz (though... that does mean, 2 LYLOs coming, Stormtemplar could survive and win anyway, so it doesn't clear him)
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Sorry guys for not being able to post today - my internship was busy as hell and on top of that my sis came to visit me so I've been busy all day. PLUS I was barely able to sleep 3 hours yesterday so I'm going to catch some sleep now, will probably be able to post during internship tomorrow as it usually isn't that busy. Goodnight everyone.
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storm = town rb
heavenz = vt
Jonny = Gf
Balla = goon
is that a possible setup?
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On October 01 2013 03:24 Koshi wrote:
We know all roles unless they lie about their role...
storm claimed second town RB.
Which has the lowest chance of happening. I almost want to lynch the guy.
what role is bajablood then? Playerboy?
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But Stormtemplar/no one should die tonight? (Sorry I asked about roles coming out, by the way, if so, I thought a 1-Shot RB/Vig or something might be left, at most, or that whoever came out would claim 1-Shot whether they were or not) Meaning afterwards, heavenz is confirmed scum.
Or Koshi came in fake claiming getting roleblocked out of nowhere, but that would almost be too cruel to believe for a newbie game, hah
Or an RB hit another inactive so they didn't speak up. Or the scum RB had to make the NK rather than RB because of an inactive buddy. Highly unlikely.
Heavenz, no I think not. GF/Goon/Goon not possible for our number of power roles.
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heavanz bajablood got modkilled, he was VT...
and that setup is not possible. no.... futhermore your whole argument about me as scum is because i've been defending stormtemplar who you think is mafia roleblocker so I really don't see how you come up with jonny/me...
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it sounds like you are just trying to find any way for me to be scum just to discredit me because i'm pushing for you so hard.
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you can push me all you want, if you lynch me and then know exactly who mafia is and still are able to lynch them, then let it be so
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Dude it's LYLO. If you're town you would defend yourself to the very end..
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ah k, yeah, then lych balla, he's mafia in every case, storm and Jonny are just 50/50
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Well tomorrow we do the math. I should be alive.
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((5/100)^3)*7*6*5= 2,625% that it is true that there are 2 town RB.
So mehhhhh. But I like the guy his filter.
Storm --> Do we believe RB
Heavenz --> Look filter tomorrow
Balla --> Look filter tomorrow
Jonny --> If we believe RB this guy might be GF
Playerboy --> Look filter tomorrow
What happens when 2 RB characters target each other
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That doesn't make sense heavenz. If you are town, Stormtemplar is 100% mafia to you.. Either as RB, or lying about RBing you so that instead Bereft did you and scum did Blurry.
I think you are the mafia Roleblocker.
Koshi, what would happen except nothing? They are just blocking each other from doing anything by targeting each other.
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On October 01 2013 04:40 Koshi wrote:
What happens when 2 RB characters target each other
Both would receive notification that they were blocked.
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On October 01 2013 04:42 Zaragon wrote:
That doesn't make sense heavenz. If you are town, Stormtemplar is 100% mafia to you.. Either as RB, or lying about RBing you so that instead Bereft did you and scum did Blurry.
I think you are the mafia Roleblocker.
Koshi, what would happen except nothing? They are just blocking each other from doing anything by targeting each other.
If they get no RB message, then they should have used their RB.
So I think they both get a RB message. But dnu if you can RB somebody when you get RB :D. Dnu rofl.
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On October 01 2013 04:45 cakepie wrote:Show nested quote +On October 01 2013 04:40 Koshi wrote:
What happens when 2 RB characters target each other Both would receive notification that they were blocked.
Ok thx!
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Ah yes I just assumed so, but good to make sure, yes
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On October 01 2013 04:42 Zaragon wrote:
That doesn't make sense heavenz. If you are town, Stormtemplar is 100% mafia to you.. Either as RB, or lying about RBing you so that instead Bereft did you and scum did Blurry.
I think you are the mafia Roleblocker.
Koshi, what would happen except nothing? They are just blocking each other from doing anything by targeting each other.
Why? It is possible Stormtemplar is town RB, heavenz VT, Koshi VT, Zaragon 1 shot Cop, playerboy VT, Bellascum RB and Jonny GF.
Or w.e
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Multiple things are on the table. It's all about filters tomorrow.
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(I was overstating it a bit for pressure effect on heavenz, Koshi, with the 100%)
It's possible, but then you assume one Roleblock from scum or Bereft went on someone who didn't say anything (another person except Blurry). Remote possibility
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Ah yeah, someone could have double-stacked a roleblock as well, another remote possibility
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Hey guys my name is b-A-l-l-a not bElla. Haha.. god that was bothering me forever lol. Back to work 
I definitely agree, it's all about reading filters. That and the night actions will give us a huge understanding of everything that is going on. After all, this is only the 2nd night of actions.
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I'll be weak and go to bed early.
We will see tomorrow. it's lylo though.
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If we lynch scum I think we can win.
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If someone has been Roleblocked by two Roleblockers in one night, are they notified twice?
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oh shit I guess I got the daypost
sorry give me like ten minutes T>T had no idea hehe
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On October 01 2013 06:27 Zaragon wrote:
If someone has been Roleblocked by two Roleblockers in one night, are they notified twice?
No; only told that they got blocked.
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Koshi the Vanilla Townie perishes!
It's now D3. Voting is mandatory, deadlines in 48 hours
+ Show Spoiler +
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Ok...
I hope that means we out-metaed mafia from going Stormtemplar, but now we have a conundrum.
Roleblocks, guys?
Stormtemplar who did you block?
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Stortemplar give us your info!!
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Okay, time to go through filters again. Thanks for filling in briefly Koshi.
I still think heavenz or playerboy or both are not town. Zaragon, stormtemplar and balla I'm not sure yet. I'll go through and come back with a stronger argument than they're scum because I said so!
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Oh, just got a pm. I was roleblocked.
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I honestly am surprised I wasn't nk'd to be honest. Koshi's clear experience in mafia made him a very smart pick though. Well played.
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Oh shit, I just realized. This makes storm 100% mafia? Someone was nk'd. I was role blocked, believe me or not.
Or is the mafia playing a smarter game than I imagined. Neither kill nor role block stormtemplar so we lynch him. What a slippery slope we have to climb.
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The NK was decent, but you being roleblocked and us having a NK at all makes no sense... Unless me and Koshi's attempt to out-meta mafia's NK went terribly wrong and out-metaed someone else too
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On October 01 2013 04:42 Zaragon wrote:
That doesn't make sense heavenz. If you are town, Stormtemplar is 100% mafia to you.. Either as RB, or lying about RBing you so that instead Bereft did you and scum did Blurry.
I think you are the mafia Roleblocker.
Koshi, what would happen except nothing? They are just blocking each other from doing anything by targeting each other.
No. I am town. Bella24 is 100% mafia to me.
Stormtemplar is most likely mafia, but it could also be a JonnyLaw & Bella24 mafia.
But yes you can read me, read my long post, I gave you my thinking process behind every action.
The reason I don't belive that playboy is scum is because he played so agressive. It's much more likely that town is responsible for the misslynch then mafia (mafia just votes in away that it makes certain the misslynch happens), you yourself should know that, I would blame Myluneth on you, you made that shitty post blaming him even though you knew better. I wanted to keep Blurry/Koshi alive, that's why I had to switch.
JonnyLaw switched because he didn't want a afk'er to die. That doesn't mean he is town though, well it means he's scum if Stormtemplar is mafia, but that's why I am unsure at this point.
You shouldn't think in the "oh that was obviously a unlucky move, he must be scum" way. Look at what happened. Just read my long post again. Don't expect me to have 100% knowledge, my knowledge is based on reads, because I am not scum.
When you know say "oh heavenz but on day2 you didn't give a fuck", that's true. I was really pissed that the game has again 4 afk players who not even vote.
Look at Stormtemplar and Balla24 again, they blamed my aphatically play on beeing SK, which also makes no sense, or on me beeing mafia RB, like if' I'ld cry about that lol. I won my first game as scum, that would be retarded to play like that.
yeah ask me more what you need to know
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I ve to go to sleep and tomorow I don't have so much time. I ll most likely be online in the later evening.
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I switched to MLuneth only when there was no chance remaining to lynch stormtemplar. I said in my first write up I really want to lynch MLuneth but I'm reading him as more of a dumb townie. But, between him and someone not playing I thought we had better odds with MLuneth than randomly guessing one of the MIAs as mafia.
I just don't get it though. If storm is rb why would they not block him? They trust he's incompetent enough to not rb correctly?
It's that or he's lying.
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Heavenz, I don't think you're mafia based on wrong decisions, that happens a lot more to town than mafia since mafia knows everything and will always just nudge in the wrong direction while trying to appear as towny as possible. I base it on what you've said and your reactions.
But I will admit:
Look at Stormtemplar and Balla24 again, they blamed my aphatically play on beeing SK, which also makes no sense, or on me beeing mafia RB, like if' I'ld cry about that lol. I won my first game as scum, that would be retarded to play like that.
This was odd, and is just about the only reason I haven't dismissed Stormtemplar or Balla as mafia. That's really not how an SK would play at all, and any amount of thought about it would bring you to that conclusion. Odd thing to coordinate about in scum QT too though.
Need to think about the situation more, and absolutely need to know why Stormtemplar's RB didn't land right, that could tell us a whole lot.
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I'm still on heavenz/playerboy, but stormtemplar's info could totally change that.
I do want to point out something else, that might be completely irrelevant when stormtemplar reveals, but look at the nature of heavenz/playerboy's large post and cases they made. Both of them went on a point by point analysis on the voting to try to prove a point.
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On October 01 2013 07:39 Zaragon wrote:
The NK was decent, but you being roleblocked and us having a NK at all makes no sense... Unless me and Koshi's attempt to out-meta mafia's NK went terribly wrong and out-metaed someone else too
Could you explain what you were trying to do? I definitely missed something yesterday here, cause I thought it was really bad that you and Koshi were talking about how mafia has to kill stormtemplar.
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Stormtemplar's block first
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Cmooon stormtemplar................
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Well that didn't give us any information at alllllllllllllllllll T_____T
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Ugh
You see, Koshi and I were setting up for you to maybe, hopefully, survive and roleblock Playerboy, in which case if Playerboy is mafia, no one died tonight and we had a confirmed mafia team, basically. We were hinting towards scum to do something unexpected and mess up. What they should have done (if heavenz/playerboy) is kill you using their roleblocker's NK and let the GF sit out
And yes, now we might have to kill you for this I'm afraid and hope it was a scum move
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Of course we would have gotten information... we would have gotten more evidence to accept you as RBer, gotten more information on who scum roleblocker is and possibly caught a mafia/stopped a kill/won the game.
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That doesn't make sense unfortunately. If heavenz/playerboy is the scum team, there would have been no NK and playerboy would be confirmed GF, heavenz basically confirmed Roleblocker.
If a night kill and a roleblock had happened like it did just now but you had told us you roleblocked PLayerboy, it would have made Playerboy confirmed town through you and we would have a big town circle. We would know where to look.
Now you look scummiest of all as a scum roleblocker in a RB/Goon/Goon team instead, and I don't know at all whether it's a scum move or blunder.
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Ok done is done.
JonnyLaw is pretty solid town now, and he was making a pretty good effort at a Stormtemplar/Playerboy case early which just about clears him from a team with STormtemplar.
Likliest scum combinations Stormtemplar/Balla, heavenz/playerboy
Stormtemplar/Heavenz possible but I find the way they set things up early then to be highly unlikely.
Stormemplar/playerboy also unlikely from earlier events.
Looking at other possibilities
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What is your take on the early Stormtemplar accusations?
Do you think this mistake fit with his play earlier?
Would you put him in any scum team?
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I don't like the way Heavenz and Jonnylaw pushed him. Jonnylaw's push was better than Heavenz but to me he didn't do anything scummy. Basically he had one misstep with how he referred to playerboy and they were both on him. MLuneth had some possible real scum moves. I couldn't see how stormtemplar was scummy at that point.
Hmm... I'm not too sure I'll have to look at his filter more. From the top of my head I think it does TBH. Remember day1 he missed the end of the day even when he was under heavy suspicion. I'll come back to this question again.
Even though I think the mistake fits his play, I just can't really imagine a person making multiple mistakes like this. Again, I need to re-read his filter, so yes I would put him in a stormtemplar/heavenz combo. However unlikely, could be just pulling us around. I'm much more inclined to believe a heavenz/playerboy scum combo.
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No it doesn't work... if you ARE part of a scumteam and we get it wrong then it's over.
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It's LYLO. We have to lynch scum right now, and the possible scum teams are pretty mutually exclusive as far as likelihood goes. The plan after that isn't relevant now, so we need to know who is scum and probably who the scum team is.
If we lynch a townie we lose.
At night, you--if you are alive, which I'm not sure you should be--will have a coinflip battle against scum and they will be prepared for the meta game this time. It's not relevant now
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No actually I'm stupid, if we survive after the lynch it means only one mafia left and you can roleblock them if we know who it is, and gg
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What supports you is that you came out quickly when asked, and gave a reasoning for who you had RBed. What goes against you is that you knew a bit about C9++ and could have set up for it. But it was an odd timing for a scum move if so. Also 2 town RBs is 2.5% chance or something silly like that, which, viewed in a vacuum, doens't look good.
I also don't see what choice you would have now if you had fake claimed town RB as scum. You couldn't give evidence for an extra RB tonight, so you had to RB someone (JonnyLaw in that case) to make sure we see a scum RB in the game. Faking a blunder is the mafia move you would have to make, unless you had the guts to pretend RB heavenz or playerboy and be ready to argue when they say they don't have a roleblock notification. Also, if you had pulled that stunt.. it simply wouldn't have worked, becaue 2 RBs and a NK would have been clearly visible in the game. You could fake RB your team mate and real RB someone else, that's about it.
It looks so scummy I don't know how to believe you regardless of if I find you genuinely sorry
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And the NK was Koshi, RB was JonnyLaw. I can either believe we managed to set some serious confusion in heavenz/playerboy's mafia team form our meta hinting, or that you pulled the one move you had left as scum.
Why should we believe you?
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EBWOP: *from our meta hinting
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On October 01 2013 12:33 stormtemplar wrote:
Also, if heavenz is town and I'm mafia, why would I have claimed town RB only to make him more credible? There wasn't a point to it. What was my goal as mafia in this whole thing? What went wrong, what was the payoff for claiming? I don't see the motive. I convinced you lot I was town for maybe 20 hours in which you were powerless anyway. I wasn't really under suspicion, why not just fly under the radar?
That's why I'm not voting yet.
Two reasons you would do that:
1, Make us think there was a Godfather in the game.
2, Opportunistic town credit for the discussion, knowing the group would shrink to LYLO size.
Trying to figure out if these are things you would have sought in those circumstances
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On October 01 2013 12:53 stormtemplar wrote:
Also, just to be absolutely 100% postive
Do roleblocks still go through if the roleblocker in question dies that night?
I know what you guys said about that question, but I have to ask because on the off chance the answer is no I'm basically confirmed town RB, as there is no other way to account for the double roleblock at this point, except another town rb who didn't claim yet, and there is no chance that that is the case.
yes
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On October 01 2013 12:53 stormtemplar wrote:
Also, just to be absolutely 100% postive
Do roleblocks still go through if the roleblocker in question dies that night?
I know what you guys said about that question, but I have to ask because on the off chance the answer is no I'm basically confirmed town RB, as there is no other way to account for the double roleblock at this point, except another town rb who didn't claim yet, and there is no chance that that is the case.
No, the entire hypothesis of 3 RBers in this game came from you and Bereft BBB (2 Town Roleblockers), heavenz as mafia RB being RBed in the night to explain the missing roleblock. Anyone else as mafia RB would have to also have RBed heavenz or Blurry, or that premise didn't even work.
2 RBers in the game, Bereft on Blurry and you on Heavenz, you being mafia RB, makes events more likely and more simple. The only reason we treated you as confirmed town was that you would prove it at the end of the night phase, now it'd be a pure gut check and whatever substance we have on heavenz and playerboy basically
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On October 01 2013 13:00 stormtemplar wrote:
Yay I'm a DT! I need to go to bed now, it's midnight, I'll answer any questions tomorrow, so if you're wondering where I went, the answer is bed. Gnight.
Good night
I guess we'll see how this turns out when heavenz and playerboy make their cases.
Balla feel free to toss in your opinion as well, maybe scrounge for a detail on playerboy or heavenz. So far it looks like you will be rather unfortunately (if you are town) tied to Stormtemplar's blunder.
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On October 01 2013 13:09 Zaragon wrote:Show nested quote +On October 01 2013 13:00 stormtemplar wrote:
Yay I'm a DT! I need to go to bed now, it's midnight, I'll answer any questions tomorrow, so if you're wondering where I went, the answer is bed. Gnight.
Good night I guess we'll see how this turns out when heavenz and playerboy make their cases. Balla feel free to toss in your opinion as well, maybe scrounge for a detail on playerboy or heavenz. So far it looks like you will be rather unfortunately (if you are town) tied to Stormtemplar's blunder.
Sorry what's a DT?... what is he saying? I'm about to head of to bed as well
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Dark Templar I'm guessing, referring to his name and how he'd disappear from thread.
Hoping for good imput now from the rest of the group, especially JonnyLaw.
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Lol ok... i was so confused for a second I thought he was claiming he was DT as in detective as in cop which would totally fit this setup and make everything make more sense. I was like, wtf why are you saying that without telling us who you checked...
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Ok i'm gonna head off to sleep! I have a job interview tomorrow so I will be on later than normal, maybe around 2-3 pm EST. Wish me luck!
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Good luck (whether you are scum or not)
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This game has enough Roleblockers already, why would anyone ever think that I am a Roleblocker, I never made a night action, or never claimed anything even remotly in that regard. I only claimed to be roleblocked, which was effectivly useless since I am vt. It's understandable that Stormtemplar roleblocked me on day1 since I tried to lynch him. No reason to belive that bullshit though.
I don't see any scum team without bella24 working atm. Even now Stormtemplar is defending Bella24 right away.
1. The only three pairings I could be in are Me/Balla Me/Heavenz and Me/Playerboy. If you in any way think it's the latter two, kill the other guy, they'll flip scum and I'll prove to you I'm town the next night. As for me/balla, I just don't see that one. Balla is just so infinitely less scummy than the other two it's not funny.
I mean I am fairly sure that Stormtemplar and Bella24 is the scum team, but there is a smaller chance that JonnyLaw and Bella24 is scum.
I hope you (Zaragon) open your eyes and read what happned, btw if you weren't roleblocked, because I don't belive in a 3rd roleblock, then who did you check? I hope you checked me or bella24
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I said from the start, 1-Shot Cop: only one check. Otherwise I would've played a lot more conservatively.
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hm, then it makes senes to kill koshi tho, is there the possiblity of a doc?
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Could be a Doc still around and then a GF in the mafia team. Or even technically, if Stormtemplar is RB, doc and a Serial Killer who hasn't been using kills. Unlikely at this point.
I do doubt that Stormtemplar is town--he even said he would "lose for his team" either way rather than town at one point, and a lot of his emotional posting can come from feeling he's letting a scum buddy down. He also said specifically, in his claim: "town roleblocker", not just "roleblocker". One of the only reasons someone would think to mention "town" in that context, I imagine, is if they are scum (he could be the type that likes to capitalize his letters and write Town Roleblocker but he didn't).
But we have a lot of day left and should be extremely thorough since this is LYLO and we need to catch both of the scum.
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This game could have been much simpler had we not tunneled owb. I thought storm was scum day 1 and still do today.
I was willing to drop the accusation because it seemed to be going nowhere. I need to go over the filters again, I got caught up in work earlier today.
There are some questions we need to examine.
1) Did anyone want to save xIvanJ over the other people who didn't play?
2) Did that person vote in a manner indicating scum? Late vote changes, suspicious activity near deadline aka playerboy.
A bit of info to look at and consider.
MLuneth (4): Zaragon, JohnnyLaw, heavenz, Balla24
onlywonderboy (3): playerboy345, Balla24, heavenz, Zaragon With Balla switching his vote to heavenz last minute.
These facts are not concrete in making a case by themselves but just another piece to look at when considering who we lynch tonight.
Also, curiously storm wanted blurry lynched day one and didn't vote for him then second day instead bandwagoned with me on playerboy before blurry was night killed. To be honest though, last night's kill was very smart as he obviously knew forum mafia better than most of us. I'm going to keep digging at people's actions and hopefully we get more conversation going tomorrow.
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Trouble is you had that sudden "onlywonderboy is certainly mafia" post, heavenz.
And the one where you didn't seem to care about winning for town, anymore.
You also asked, after saying you were roleblocked, in which order night actions were processed. As vanilla town I don't see your motivation to do that. Potentially soft-claiming a role is mainly only a good idea if you're mafia, and otherwise it could be interpeted as a scum RB slip.
And you said "advantage of clearing playerboy" which you EBWOPed to "possibility", after suddenly town reading him when you had been at least somewhat suspicious before.
So many things tell me Stormtemplar is scum, and you are, and playerboy. Balla strikes me, more than most people who have been in this game, as making newbie mistakes but doing few outright scummy mistakes. We have only 2 days of voting to go off of and he refused to follow the three most active players in the game on the vote last night, so I can't say he's a clearly sheeping scum either. If you are town, heavenz, I can understand if it looks like a relatively easy game from your perspective; it's not quite that clear cut from my perspective.
I don't want anyone breezing through LYLO. Fight for the town, guys
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On September 30 2013 07:24 onlywonderboy wrote:
Well, it was fun while it lasted, sorry townies, I tried! Learned a lot regardless, this game is hard lol. Might look to play in more.
Sorry onlywonderboy, I really thought you were scum :/ I guess your death is kinda my fault T_T
So I think this game is basically Zaragon's to win or lose, right?
Also I noticed that Koshi probably didn't suspect me as scum as he never really mentioned me in any of his posts.
I'll try to be more useful today as I probably have more time to spend today compared to yesterday.
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On October 01 2013 17:47 playerboy345 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 30 2013 07:24 onlywonderboy wrote:
Well, it was fun while it lasted, sorry townies, I tried! Learned a lot regardless, this game is hard lol. Might look to play in more. Sorry onlywonderboy, I really thought you were scum :/ I guess your death is kinda my fault T_T So I think this game is basically Zaragon's to win or lose, right? Also I noticed that Koshi probably didn't suspect me as scum as he never really mentioned me in any of his posts. I'll try to be more useful today as I probably have more time to spend today compared to yesterday.
Town's game. If there are any cases to be made that haven't been yet, we need to find them.
And I need some sleep
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On October 01 2013 15:00 Zaragon wrote:
Trouble is you had that sudden "onlywonderboy is certainly mafia" post, heavenz.
And the one where you didn't seem to care about winning for town, anymore.
You also asked, after saying you were roleblocked, in which order night actions were processed. As vanilla town I don't see your motivation to do that. Potentially soft-claiming a role is mainly only a good idea if you're mafia, and otherwise it could be interpeted as a scum RB slip.
And you said "advantage of clearing playerboy" which you EBWOPed to "possibility", after suddenly town reading him when you had been at least somewhat suspicious before.
So many things tell me Stormtemplar is scum, and you are, and playerboy. Balla strikes me, more than most people who have been in this game, as making newbie mistakes but doing few outright scummy mistakes. We have only 2 days of voting to go off of and he refused to follow the three most active players in the game on the vote last night, so I can't say he's a clearly sheeping scum either. If you are town, heavenz, I can understand if it looks like a relatively easy game from your perspective; it's not quite that clear cut from my perspective.
I don't want anyone breezing through LYLO. Fight for the town, guys
yeah I know, that was badly played, but I don't see how that makes me scum. I read him as town, but I was dissapointed by his progession, he only cared about himself, that annoyed me, that's why I just wanted to push him, but I should have realized that I got opposition from the scum, so I should have stopped before the end,.. I was just hoping he would really be scum. Mistakes were made.
Btw, you keep looking at mistakes, that's not how you should play it. Look at the motivation behind the actions.
1) I wasn't the town leader
2) I wasn't convincing
3) It was really dumb, and I didn't care if you would have lynched me afterwards, coz the game with the ton of afk'ers felt like a waste of time
so basicly it was really bad and risky. If I was mafia, I would feel beforehand if more players thought that he would be a good lynch, not 180 and go for it no matter what, and that on an unimportant target.
I didn't cover myself in glory that day, but I made up for it.
Either way if you consider Stormtemplar mafia you can't think that I am mafia too.
Also this is my 2nd game, I claimed I was roleblocked because I was roleblocked (even stormtemplar attest it), I claim vt, coz I am, I never claimed anything else.
I want to ask you a question. Consider my claim to be true for a second. Now make up reasonable mafia teams.
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EBWOP "no opposition from mafia", had to look that word up made mess the sentence
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Ok so this game is confusing the crap out of me at this point, I really thought onlywonderboy would flip scum :/
I'll go read through Koshi's filter and see if he left us with something useful.
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On October 01 2013 20:47 heavenz wrote:Show nested quote +On October 01 2013 15:00 Zaragon wrote:
Trouble is you had that sudden "onlywonderboy is certainly mafia" post, heavenz.
And the one where you didn't seem to care about winning for town, anymore.
You also asked, after saying you were roleblocked, in which order night actions were processed. As vanilla town I don't see your motivation to do that. Potentially soft-claiming a role is mainly only a good idea if you're mafia, and otherwise it could be interpeted as a scum RB slip.
And you said "advantage of clearing playerboy" which you EBWOPed to "possibility", after suddenly town reading him when you had been at least somewhat suspicious before.
So many things tell me Stormtemplar is scum, and you are, and playerboy. Balla strikes me, more than most people who have been in this game, as making newbie mistakes but doing few outright scummy mistakes. We have only 2 days of voting to go off of and he refused to follow the three most active players in the game on the vote last night, so I can't say he's a clearly sheeping scum either. If you are town, heavenz, I can understand if it looks like a relatively easy game from your perspective; it's not quite that clear cut from my perspective.
I don't want anyone breezing through LYLO. Fight for the town, guys
yeah I know, that was badly played, but I don't see how that makes me scum. I read him as town, but I was dissapointed by his progession, he only cared about himself, that annoyed me, that's why I just wanted to push him, but I should have realized that I got opposition from the scum, so I should have stopped before the end,.. I was just hoping he would really be scum. Mistakes were made. Btw, you keep looking at mistakes, that's not how you should play it. Look at the motivation behind the actions. 1) I wasn't the town leader 2) I wasn't convincing 3) It was really dumb, and I didn't care if you would have lynched me afterwards, coz the game with the ton of afk'ers felt like a waste of time so basicly it was really bad and risky. If I was mafia, I would feel beforehand if more players thought that he would be a good lynch, not 180 and go for it no matter what, and that on an unimportant target. I didn't cover myself in glory that day, but I made up for it. Either way if you consider Stormtemplar mafia you can't think that I am mafia too. Also this is my 2nd game, I claimed I was roleblocked because I was roleblocked (even stormtemplar attest it), I claim vt, coz I am, I never claimed anything else. I want to ask you a question. Consider my claim to be true for a second. Now make up reasonable mafia teams.
You're right. You and Stormtemplar cannot be mafia (very very very very low chance, if they are then they deserve the win LOL). The thing is, that makes me believe that Stormtemplar is town more than you are town.
I would like to bring up Heavenz's votes again:
Day1: Mluneth... ok everybody fucked this one up, can't really say much about it because everyone looks like scum in this case.
Day2: Onlywonderboy... He voted him in a completly 180 degree flip (he is acting pro-town), didn't listen to any defense, didn't give any reasoning besides quoting Bereft. How is this not the most anti-town behavior in the thread?
I'm sorry heavenz, if you are town you really dug your own grave.
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well I am town, then we'll all go down with my funeral.
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On October 01 2013 20:47 heavenz wrote:Show nested quote +On October 01 2013 15:00 Zaragon wrote:
Trouble is you had that sudden "onlywonderboy is certainly mafia" post, heavenz.
And the one where you didn't seem to care about winning for town, anymore.
You also asked, after saying you were roleblocked, in which order night actions were processed. As vanilla town I don't see your motivation to do that. Potentially soft-claiming a role is mainly only a good idea if you're mafia, and otherwise it could be interpeted as a scum RB slip.
And you said "advantage of clearing playerboy" which you EBWOPed to "possibility", after suddenly town reading him when you had been at least somewhat suspicious before.
So many things tell me Stormtemplar is scum, and you are, and playerboy. Balla strikes me, more than most people who have been in this game, as making newbie mistakes but doing few outright scummy mistakes. We have only 2 days of voting to go off of and he refused to follow the three most active players in the game on the vote last night, so I can't say he's a clearly sheeping scum either. If you are town, heavenz, I can understand if it looks like a relatively easy game from your perspective; it's not quite that clear cut from my perspective.
I don't want anyone breezing through LYLO. Fight for the town, guys
yeah I know, that was badly played, but I don't see how that makes me scum. I read him as town, but I was dissapointed by his progession, he only cared about himself, that annoyed me, that's why I just wanted to push him, but I should have realized that I got opposition from the scum, so I should have stopped before the end,.. I was just hoping he would really be scum. Mistakes were made. Btw, you keep looking at mistakes, that's not how you should play it. Look at the motivation behind the actions. 1) I wasn't the town leader 2) I wasn't convincing 3) It was really dumb, and I didn't care if you would have lynched me afterwards, coz the game with the ton of afk'ers felt like a waste of time so basicly it was really bad and risky. If I was mafia, I would feel beforehand if more players thought that he would be a good lynch, not 180 and go for it no matter what, and that on an unimportant target. I didn't cover myself in glory that day, but I made up for it. Either way if you consider Stormtemplar mafia you can't think that I am mafia too. Also this is my 2nd game, I claimed I was roleblocked because I was roleblocked (even stormtemplar attest it), I claim vt, coz I am, I never claimed anything else. I want to ask you a question. Consider my claim to be true for a second. Now make up reasonable mafia teams.
If you and playerboy were mafia, you needed a third target because both of you were close to getting lynched (for fairly good reasons). So it's not about mistakes. If the two of you were scum and had set up the beginning of the day as you did, how would you move heat off playerboy? JonnyLaw made a strong case on playerboy as well (I have to admit, my cop check on him did strengthen it in my mind as well) at an ill timed moment for a heavenz/playerboy scum team. And you drew suspicion with your posting, which was careless as either scum or town.
Yes, I would have expected you to be more careful, and yes I would have expected you as mafia to look more carefully at who to NK last night
On October 02 2013 04:05 stormtemplar wrote:
I would point out that that is not a very townie post heavenz. You've been operating with certainty all game long, and town is never certain. Even "Confirmed" townies usually have some element of doubt, it's just that it's much more likely that they are town. You very rarely 100% know everything in mafia as town, and you've been playing like you do, which is very much a mafia trait.
Also, the DT think was a reference to my profile picture, I hit 2K posts and became a DT. The losing the game from either side thing was a continuation of my propensity for ill-timed humor, but I was pointing out that from any point of view and in all possible situations my play was a monumental screw up.
I'm still honestly confused as to what this whole debacle gained me if I'm mafia. Considering I was mostly not under suspicion and balla REALLY wasn't, if we're the scum team then this is the best possible senario, and it's a crappy and easy to predict one. I would have been much better off just staying silent. There's no motive to behave as I did for scum, while there is one for a townie.
The problem is, we have to assume you made a mistake either way, and comparing and WIFOMing which one you would make isn't helping me personally see if you're scum.
Honestly, from the circumstances, I would be almost sure it was Stormtemplar now (the odds of BBB, 2 town RB, combined with the odds of hitting the mafia RB the first night and forgetting to RB second night). Except, playerboy is coming in and showing he hasn't even read the game since last lynch. Whether that's genuine or not, it makes it plausible for a playerboy scum team to not have thought the NK through.
I need to look back more at motivations at different points in the game.
JonnyLaw and playerboy are right about Koshi, by the way. And it's an odd kill for playerboy/heavenz. He showed more suspicions about Balla and Stormtemplar than I; I was working completely under the assumption that Stormtemplar would confirm town RB after the night.
Also, Bereft was more skeptical of Balla early than most, and mildly of Stormtemplar if I remember right.
I'm quite confused about this game myself since several things make little sense.
Hopefully more information will come out during the remaining time.
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I know, I played carelessly, I thought I am just a VT, if I die, what ever. But the situation arose and many modkills, and we're suddenly at the end of the game.
If you belive that Stormtemplar is mafia, it's stormtemplar and balla24, I just ask you to read my longer post again.
You need to understand the this is not a rating of who is the most suspicious, we just have to kill the mafia. Read the last game, umasi was mafia, he wasn't suspicious at all.
Playerboy mentioned that he played with Umasi in aonther game where Umasi was scum as well, you will not think he is mafia because he is more town than all of town.
I don't have any connection or responsibilty for playerboy, on day1 I assumed that the mafia was playerboy & stormtemplar. I made a case with JonnyLaw on Stormtemplar and I made a case with Playerboy on Onlywunderboy.
I think that Stormtemplar is scum, and when stormtemplar is scum he is scum with balla24.
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On October 02 2013 06:24 heavenz wrote:
You need to understand the this is not a rating of who is the most suspicious, we just have to kill the mafia. Read the last game, umasi was mafia, he wasn't suspicious at all.
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Dude what does this even mean??????????? This entire game is about lynching the suspicious people. What else is there to go on besides suspicion? Why would you lynch someone if they aren't suspicious? The whole goal of town is to get the scum to become suspicious so that they can find out and then kill them before they kill town.
This is such a shit show. It seems to me like everybody is just bussing everybody because fuck everybody else. Please, zaragon, jonnylaw ASK MORE QUESTIONS. We're not going to get anywhere with you guys re-iterating the facts that we all know. You need to get people to share their thoughts on different subjects so that the suspects can possibly slip in their reasoning. This is one thing that Heavenz (yes, i'm going to say it again) has yet to provide. ANY reasoning for ANYTHING. Force it out! Of all of us, not just Heavenz.
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On October 02 2013 06:24 heavenz wrote:
I know, I played carelessly, I thought I am just a VT, if I die, what ever. But the situation arose and many modkills, and we're suddenly at the end of the game.
If you belive that Stormtemplar is mafia, it's stormtemplar and balla24, I just ask you to read my longer post again.
You need to understand the this is not a rating of who is the most suspicious, we just have to kill the mafia. Read the last game, umasi was mafia, he wasn't suspicious at all.
Playerboy mentioned that he played with Umasi in aonther game where Umasi was scum as well, you will not think he is mafia because he is more town than all of town.
I don't have any connection or responsibilty for playerboy, on day1 I assumed that the mafia was playerboy & stormtemplar. I made a case with JonnyLaw on Stormtemplar and I made a case with Playerboy on Onlywunderboy.
I think that Stormtemplar is scum, and when stormtemplar is scum he is scum with balla24.
You tied playerboy rather loosely to stormtemplar day 1. No reason you couldn't have bussed him and made out as if he was cleared when stormtemplar flipped town. If you are scum, I would expect some early bussing, to be honest.
On October 02 2013 08:53 Balla24 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2013 06:24 heavenz wrote:
You need to understand the this is not a rating of who is the most suspicious, we just have to kill the mafia. Read the last game, umasi was mafia, he wasn't suspicious at all.
. Dude what does this even mean??????????? This entire game is about lynching the suspicious people. What else is there to go on besides suspicion? Why would you lynch someone if they aren't suspicious? The whole goal of town is to get the scum to become suspicious so that they can find out and then kill them before they kill town. This is such a shit show. It seems to me like everybody is just bussing everybody because fuck everybody else. Please, zaragon, jonnylaw ASK MORE QUESTIONS. We're not going to get anywhere with you guys re-iterating the facts that we all know. You need to get people to share their thoughts on different subjects so that the suspects can possibly slip in their reasoning. This is one thing that Heavenz (yes, i'm going to say it again) has yet to provide. ANY reasoning for ANYTHING. Force it out! Of all of us, not just Heavenz.
It's LYLO after 2 days and scum's job is to not appear suspicious throughout the game. It's not as easy as who looks most suspicious.
I do have another question to ask. Balla, why have you read stormtemplar town all game and showed minimal suspicion about him? After the whole roleblock conversation yesterday, can you really buy that he simply forgot to use his? He was active in the roleblocking discussion, obviously.
Other than that, I need to see playerboy's take on what he missed of the game and his reads now.
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Zaragon, the only person who picked a target and pushed them hard was heavenz. I give him that for a town read. I mean isolating onlywonderboy was not a good read. I'm sticking with my stormtemplar or playerboy read. I went away from what I liked day 1 and it bit me in the ass. Take your pick but you'll have to convince me to vote away from those two.
Sorry I've been busy. Ill be here the two hours before voting tomorrow to discuss the game. If you have questions or new information to bring up I'm more than willing to digest it.
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Why do you think heavenz is less suspicious than playerboy? And you realize, if stormtemplar is lying he is confirmed scum roleblocker; if he isn't lying, heavenz is confirmed scum roleblocker. Why would we vote playerboy? playerboy is only relevant to see if he's part of a scum team with either of those people
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I think they're more of a gamble. If we get one we win. I just think playerboy is scummy. It's late for me I'llo give full reads tomorrow before voting time. I hope you're around then if not, pick your vote and give a reason and I'll evaluate it. I work early in the morning tomorrow.
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On October 02 2013 09:50 Zaragon wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2013 08:53 Balla24 wrote:
Dude what does this even mean??????????? This entire game is about lynching the suspicious people. What else is there to go on besides suspicion? Why would you lynch someone if they aren't suspicious? The whole goal of town is to get the scum to become suspicious so that they can find out and then kill them before they kill town.
This is such a shit show. It seems to me like everybody is just bussing everybody because fuck everybody else. Please, zaragon, jonnylaw ASK MORE QUESTIONS. We're not going to get anywhere with you guys re-iterating the facts that we all know. You need to get people to share their thoughts on different subjects so that the suspects can possibly slip in their reasoning. This is one thing that Heavenz (yes, i'm going to say it again) has yet to provide. ANY reasoning for ANYTHING. Force it out! Of all of us, not just Heavenz. It's LYLO after 2 days and scum's job is to not appear suspicious throughout the game. It's not as easy as who looks most suspicious. I do have another question to ask. Balla, why have you read stormtemplar town all game and showed minimal suspicion about him? After the whole roleblock conversation yesterday, can you really buy that he simply forgot to use his? He was active in the roleblocking discussion, obviously. Other than that, I need to see playerboy's take on what he missed of the game and his reads now.
No, it's not that easy. But the whole process of this game is to make it so scum players become suspicious enough that you can lynch them. If a player isn't ever suspicious you will never catch them. Just because their actions aren't suspicious by themselves doesn't mean that together with something else they aren't suspicious either. At the end of the day, it will be who looks most suspicious, regardless of whether or not they are most suspicious now, otherwise why would you vote for them. Anyways, I don't even know why we're talking about this. It's silly. This is the kind of random rants we can't really afford right now. I shouldn't have brought it up.
To me, the case on stormtemplar was very very weak on day 1 and day 2 the attention was somewhere else. There wasn't much substance behind it and I couldn't find anything particularly scummy. Today however things are totally different. I can't believe him. Just can't. Koshi calculated the chance of a setup like this being 2.5% or something like that. That's so low. I can't really believe him straight up based on that possibility, but on the other hand the situation where he is ACTUALLY town roleblocker and he ACTUALLY forgot to roleblock just makes more sense to me with the way the game has flowed and the way he has played in general. The timing all makes sense. Everything else makes sense. The situation where he is scum roleblocker seems so contrived and unreasonable. It doesn't make sense. Why would stormtemplar roleblock Jonnylaw in this case and then why would he claim he forgot to roleblock?
I don't know. I'm a in a weird situation here where BOTH cases are incredibly incredibly low probability, in one case it's due to the way the game is setup and in the other case it's just because of how it all fits together.
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playerboy is scummy, yes. And he has responded scummiest of all to these events, so far, barely even posting and giving the appearance he hasn't read what was going on. But he's not relevant for a lynch since either heavenz or stormtemplar is mafia roleblocker.
playerboy really needs to give his view and his scum cases, but I don't see how we can vote him tonight no matter how scummy he is. If heavenz is the roleblocker (likeliest teammate with playerboy) we kill him, roleblock playerboy and win without another LYLO. So if you want to lynch playerboy tonight rather than stormtemplar or heavenz, I'd really like to see a good case for it, because I can't see the logic there.
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On October 02 2013 12:58 JonnyLaw wrote:
I think they're more of a gamble. If we get one we win. I just think playerboy is scummy. It's late for me I'llo give full reads tomorrow before voting time. I hope you're around then if not, pick your vote and give a reason and I'll evaluate it. I work early in the morning tomorrow.
Cmon man give it a better effort than that... poke more!! Don't gamble. You get one you win, you miss and you lose.
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On October 02 2013 13:00 Balla24 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2013 09:50 Zaragon wrote:On October 02 2013 08:53 Balla24 wrote:
Dude what does this even mean??????????? This entire game is about lynching the suspicious people. What else is there to go on besides suspicion? Why would you lynch someone if they aren't suspicious? The whole goal of town is to get the scum to become suspicious so that they can find out and then kill them before they kill town.
This is such a shit show. It seems to me like everybody is just bussing everybody because fuck everybody else. Please, zaragon, jonnylaw ASK MORE QUESTIONS. We're not going to get anywhere with you guys re-iterating the facts that we all know. You need to get people to share their thoughts on different subjects so that the suspects can possibly slip in their reasoning. This is one thing that Heavenz (yes, i'm going to say it again) has yet to provide. ANY reasoning for ANYTHING. Force it out! Of all of us, not just Heavenz. It's LYLO after 2 days and scum's job is to not appear suspicious throughout the game. It's not as easy as who looks most suspicious. I do have another question to ask. Balla, why have you read stormtemplar town all game and showed minimal suspicion about him? After the whole roleblock conversation yesterday, can you really buy that he simply forgot to use his? He was active in the roleblocking discussion, obviously. Other than that, I need to see playerboy's take on what he missed of the game and his reads now. No, it's not that easy. But the whole process of this game is to make it so scum players become suspicious enough that you can lynch them. If a player isn't ever suspicious you will never catch them. Just because their actions aren't suspicious by themselves doesn't mean that together with something else they aren't suspicious either. At the end of the day, it will be who looks most suspicious, regardless of whether or not they are most suspicious now, otherwise why would you vote for them. Anyways, I don't even know why we're talking about this. It's silly. This is the kind of random rants we can't really afford right now. I shouldn't have brought it up. To me, the case on stormtemplar was very very weak on day 1 and day 2 the attention was somewhere else. There wasn't much substance behind it and I couldn't find anything particularly scummy. Today however things are totally different. I can't believe him. Just can't. Koshi calculated the chance of a setup like this being 2.5% or something like that. That's so low. I can't really believe him straight up based on that possibility, but on the other hand the situation where he is ACTUALLY town roleblocker and he ACTUALLY forgot to roleblock just makes more sense to me with the way the game has flowed and the way he has played in general. The timing all makes sense. Everything else makes sense. The situation where he is scum roleblocker seems so contrived and unreasonable. It doesn't make sense. Why would stormtemplar roleblock Jonnylaw in this case and then why would he claim he forgot to roleblock? I don't know. I'm a in a weird situation here where BOTH cases are incredibly incredibly low probability, in one case it's due to the way the game is setup and in the other case it's just because of how it all fits together.
I agree with that to some extent.
However, the roleblock on JonnyLaw would only be for appearances, to show a scum RB was still in the game. On the surface, it looks like a solution for a scum stormtemplar after the mistake of claiming town RB. Thing is, as far as I know, stormtemplar could be scum RB and have had no idea that if he claimed town RB it meant a scum RB had to exist as well. He might have scrambled to look at C9++ when it was first mentioned, realized his mistake, and come up with a solution. There are so many possibilities as to how his mistake (whichever it was) happened.
If I went by the flow of the game and how and what people have said, playerboy/heavenz would be my scum team of choice. Just, a town RB Stormtemplar not even attempting to block the NK, especially if he expected to die, it's hard to swallow.
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I totally understand. It's literally the worst way to lose. I'm not sure the roleblock on jonnylaw is the best move in his position, or even a good move at all. What about just roleblocking Heavenz again? He would have kept the possibility of Heavenz being scum RB and he could have covered it with the fact that he was trying to kill 2 birds with one stone (possibly block a kill and also a roleblock) and also trying to clear his name as town RB. Obviously this wouldn't be the brightest town RB play but it would certainly (IMO, and no offense stormtemplar) match his play. Again though, I'm just trying to think logically through this and understand what possibilities there are.
Can I ask you a question you asked me previously though? If he is town RB and did forget the roleblock, do you think it fits with his play the rest of the game? You've probably already thought about it, but putting thoughts out there sometimes catches things you don't normally. Just interested to see
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On October 02 2013 13:29 Balla24 wrote:
I totally understand. It's literally the worst way to lose. I'm not sure the roleblock on jonnylaw is the best move in his position, or even a good move at all. What about just roleblocking Heavenz again? He would have kept the possibility of Heavenz being scum RB and he could have covered it with the fact that he was trying to kill 2 birds with one stone (possibly block a kill and also a roleblock) and also trying to clear his name as town RB. Obviously this wouldn't be the brightest town RB play but it would certainly (IMO, and no offense stormtemplar) match his play. Again though, I'm just trying to think logically through this and understand what possibilities there are.
Can I ask you a question you asked me previously though? If he is town RB and did forget the roleblock, do you think it fits with his play the rest of the game? You've probably already thought about it, but putting thoughts out there sometimes catches things you don't normally. Just interested to see
It's not a good move, that's the problem, nothing around it is a good move (unless I suppose he's scum and manages to confuse us somehow). If he's scum and had fake claimed, he should've claimed he RBed heavenz or playerboy and that they out-metaed him by how they performed the NK.
As for whether forgetting to RB fits his play to my eyes, yes, it fits my town read on him. But that same day, before he stopped posting, he was discussing the RB situation with us and about RB being able to stop NK... After that, it doesn't fit with my read on him. He was clearly emotional about the game in his defense speech earlier, so just deciding that he was dying and it didn't matter if he even tried to stop the NK makes no sense.
Maybe, maybe I can believe it. The question is just if we want to gamble that much on basically a personality read on stormtemplar. Actually, does he have any previous games anywhere?
By the way, my main priority is still to see a case of some kind from playerboy before I decide on my vote.
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Sure. Very reasonable.
I'm glad you're trying to see all the sides Zaragon. I'm going to head off to bed in a few minutes here. I'll check again before going though to make sure there's no more questions.
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Ok I'm going to try to wildly speculate on scum teams and QT conversations.
Balla and stormtemplar coming up to the NK. What does this QT actually look like? Oh crap, mistake claiming town roleblocker, what now? Someone being AFK most of the night and a haphazard decision on how to solve it? Maybe suspicion will still stick to heavenz or playerboy?
Alternatively, heavenz/playerboy. stormtemplar has claimed RB. If they kill him, they pretty much point an arrow at themselves as mafia. If they RB him and kill someone else (me or Koshi presumably) they know they can argue with stormtemplar, he will come across as quite genuine at getting RBed however. So they flip a coin, try to RB someone else (potential Doc perhaps) and hope stormtemplar hits heavenz instead of playerboy? 50/50% lose the game just to make stormtemplar appear less genuine when he argues for himself?
You know, something doesn't make sense in either of those conversations, and I almost think one of the unlikeliest scum teams that we've dismissed out of pure probability could be it. JonnyLaw's odd unwillingness to lynch heavenz over playerboy sets off a red flag in my head; I need to go back and check why I dismissed them. If heavenz expected himself or playerboy to get roleblocked, signaling JonnyLaw (as scum mate) to say he was roleblocked would be the perfect scum play. Discredits stormtemplar after the night, ostensibly clears JonnyLaw and possibly heavenz as well depending on stormtemplar's target. And things would make a lot more sense.
Checking this theory as well.
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Votecount!
everybody (0): nobody
nobody (∞): everybody
The deadline is in .
Remember, voting is mandatory! Place your votes in the voting thread here.
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On October 02 2013 06:24 heavenz wrote:
I know, I played carelessly, I thought I am just a VT, if I die, what ever. But the situation arose and many modkills, and we're suddenly at the end of the game.
If you belive that Stormtemplar is mafia, it's stormtemplar and balla24, I just ask you to read my longer post again.
You need to understand the this is not a rating of who is the most suspicious, we just have to kill the mafia. Read the last game, umasi was mafia, he wasn't suspicious at all.
Playerboy mentioned that he played with Umasi in aonther game where Umasi was scum as well, you will not think he is mafia because he is more town than all of town.
I don't have any connection or responsibilty for playerboy, on day1 I assumed that the mafia was playerboy & stormtemplar. I made a case with JonnyLaw on Stormtemplar and I made a case with Playerboy on Onlywunderboy.
I think that Stormtemplar is scum, and when stormtemplar is scum he is scum with balla24.
You played carelessly? That is an understatement, you went from let's hunt scum! To fuck this game to idk we should kill someone. You've been the most inconsistent player this game.
You thought "I am just a VT, if I die, what ever."??? Why would you ever think this way as town, it makes no sense to me. Do you even realise how far back it sets us if you die and you flip town? What you're doing is just a horrible way of playing town, you're supposed to prove your innocence, not think fuck this kill me so you guys know I'm town.
You misread, I never claimed I played a game with Umasi, I was however spectating the game and found it extremely odd that Umasi was never targeted for a nightkill, and people kept just blindly following him which ultimately became their downfall. Zaragon mentioned that he read the thread aswell if I remember correctly which led me to developing that Zaragon/Balla24/onlywonderboy scumteam theory.
Sorry guys for not posting much, I'll go through the last few pages again and pick some posts to quote/answer/talk about.
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By the way what are the chances of there being a serial killer in our current scenario? I'm really confused and I don't really get this C9++ stuff.
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On October 02 2013 17:08 playerboy345 wrote:
By the way what are the chances of there being a serial killer in our current scenario? I'm really confused and I don't really get this C9++ stuff.
It's almost impossible at this point.
If I remember the math right it would mean that stormtemplar is a real town roleblocker, we have a doctor, GF and an SK--that everyone still in the game is a role.
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Koshi mentioned:
On September 30 2013 21:17 Koshi wrote:
heavenz If stormtemplar is a scum roleblocker the setup is TTTTBVC Remember that scum roleblocker does not give 2 extra B's in the draft.
So that means that Bella24 is just a goon and not a GF for your theory. Which doesn't change anything.
But it is interesting that you come to the conclusion that there is a GF. I wonder if this is a scumslip because stormtemplar is really a town roleblocker and you know there is a GF. You just swapped the names around.
After which he posts:
On September 30 2013 21:20 Koshi wrote:
I am going to believe stormtemplar tbh. There was no reason for him to claim RB after a RB already flipped. wtf the chances of this setup are low. like REALLY LOW. I can't believe this shit...
Later he posts:
On October 01 2013 03:24 Koshi wrote:
We know all roles unless they lie about their role...
storm claimed second town RB.
Which has the lowest chance of happening. I almost want to lynch the guy.
These posts plus the fact that he "forgot" to RB someone is scummy in my opinion. He might have been scared that Koshi would figure him out and decided to NK him in the hopes that people would attack someone else.
I have the feeling heavenz is trying to get me lynched first to "clear" himself of suspicion. He just keeps saying stuff like playerboy town 100%, effectively drawing attention to me.
heavenz' filter looks way scummier compared to stormtemplars, but stormtemplar "forgetting" to RB is just so unbelievable that it makes him look scummy :/
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On October 02 2013 17:56 playerboy345 wrote:Koshi mentioned: Show nested quote +On September 30 2013 21:17 Koshi wrote:
heavenz If stormtemplar is a scum roleblocker the setup is TTTTBVC Remember that scum roleblocker does not give 2 extra B's in the draft.
So that means that Bella24 is just a goon and not a GF for your theory. Which doesn't change anything.
But it is interesting that you come to the conclusion that there is a GF. I wonder if this is a scumslip because stormtemplar is really a town roleblocker and you know there is a GF. You just swapped the names around. After which he posts: Show nested quote +On September 30 2013 21:20 Koshi wrote:
I am going to believe stormtemplar tbh. There was no reason for him to claim RB after a RB already flipped. wtf the chances of this setup are low. like REALLY LOW. I can't believe this shit... Later he posts: Show nested quote +On October 01 2013 03:24 Koshi wrote:
We know all roles unless they lie about their role...
storm claimed second town RB.
Which has the lowest chance of happening. I almost want to lynch the guy.
These posts plus the fact that he "forgot" to RB someone is scummy in my opinion. He might have been scared that Koshi would figure him out and decided to NK him in the hopes that people would attack someone else. I have the feeling heavenz is trying to get me lynched first to "clear" himself of suspicion. He just keeps saying stuff like playerboy town 100%, effectively drawing attention to me. heavenz' filter looks way scummier compared to stormtemplars, but stormtemplar "forgetting" to RB is just so unbelievable that it makes him look scummy :/
Yes basically the stars need to have aligned for us to roll BBB, hit the mafia blocker, out-metaed mafia to neither block nor kill the town blocker, and him forgetting to block anyone... it'd be like a perfect storm working for scum.
I'm still not sure I can vote anyone except stormtemplar, though. The circumstances point at him as scum just about as clearly as anything possibly can in a Mafia game.
Oh, by the way, regarding SKs: even if stormtemplar would be mafia roleblocker and we would have a doctor, it means an SK as well, I just realized. So not out of the realm of possibility.
But no evidence of a doctor and it's LYLO so doesn't really matter today, have to lynch scum.
Oh, and I checked why I had dismissed JonnyLaw/heavenz for mafia; it was before stormtemplar claimed town roleblocker. It's possible if stormtemplar's claim is true. They would have needed some careful risks to get here, though. Irrelevant for now I suppose except as an explanation for the odd night event.
We should lynch heavenz or stormtemplar tonight. Just in case I miss the deadline (I have some real life complications), I'll bet with the odds rather than my gut for now:
##Vote stormtemplar
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EBWOP: No, actually I had just made a mistake dismissing JonnyLaw/heavenz to begin with. Miscounting the roleblocks. Was never impossible. Still feels unlikely, just want to be clear and correct myself now.
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I just read through JonnyLaw's filter and he has been attacking heavenz all game, I can understand mafia sometimes attack their teammates to look like they are operating seperately but wanting to lynch heavenz from the start and keep that thought going through the whole game? I don't know, seems unlikely to me that scum would do that, way too risky.
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It's unlikely, just something that struck me when I was trying to figure out how the night actions happened the way they did. There was one perspective from which they would have made perfect sense and been the ideal choice--heavenz/JonnyLaw.
Strongly bussed, risky scum play earlier in the game, yes. I'm not putting much time into investigating it further; the only detail from their filters that hints possible scum team is JonnyLaw saying that he would vote heavenz but then going for you playerboy. Anyway, you yourself have more ties to heavenz. And focus needs to be on whether we believe heavenz or stormtemplar is the scum roleblocker, either way.
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I wish I could somehow prove that I have nothing to do with heavenz :/
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that's the thing, I wish you would read what I said, or even consider it.
The fact is that one mafia wasn't participating in the game ever, this means, everyone knows after it was discussed day1 that this person will be modkilled.
So scum was basicly one down already, in what circumstance what you buss your teammate on day1 when you are already 1 man down, like... never?
I mean mafia has to be retarded as hell to get lynched on day1.
Balla24 defendes stormtemplar dispite everything, right away. I pointed those posts out, just read them. The goal of the mafia will be to surivve day1 with as few casualties as possible, it will make the game for them harder already having one guy modkilled, you wouldn't let the otherone go down carelessly. (reread my longer post).
anyway for me this is an obvious vote ##stormtemplar
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Welp. Still no new information except now we are considering Jonnylaw too? T_T
And since we are starting the votes, not so obvious for me but I'm going with my gut: ##Vote: heavenz
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why do you think I am mafia?
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What? I've explained so many times and you always ignore it and never give any reasoning for any of it. You could easily just read my filter to see what I think of you.
You've flip flopped on so many subjects, had possible scum slips, given up at inopportune moments (LYLO), it fits with the proposed role setups. Your voting pattern matches that of a possible scum. Everything makes more sense when you are mafia. You even seem more scum then everyone else in this situation when everybody is defending themselves because you keep saying things that you shouldn't do as a townie when you are about to get lynched (when i bring up onlywonderboy and tell you that you dug your own grave you just give up and STILL don't explain it and give me a bullshit 1 liner).
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Oh fuck I hope I'm not wrong on this one :/
##Vote stormtemplar
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Looking through the four filters I really have nothing new to contribute. stormtemplar's play just looks poor. I don't know if he's trying to play off absentmindedness as an excuse to cover up being scum or he's just absentminded.
heavenz and playerboy have both acted in more questionable manners with their late voting, late advice and reads on votes and flipping their opinions in short time periods when nothing really occurred.
For now, I'll follow along. I'm going to check their filters again to be certain I like where I'm placing what could end up as my final vote.
##Vote stormtemplar
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On October 02 2013 22:28 heavenz wrote:
that's the thing, I wish you would read what I said, or even consider it.
The fact is that one mafia wasn't participating in the game ever, this means, everyone knows after it was discussed day1 that this person will be modkilled.
So scum was basicly one down already, in what circumstance what you buss your teammate on day1 when you are already 1 man down, like... never?
I mean mafia has to be retarded as hell to get lynched on day1.
Balla24 defendes stormtemplar dispite everything, right away. I pointed those posts out, just read them. The goal of the mafia will be to surivve day1 with as few casualties as possible, it will make the game for them harder already having one guy modkilled, you wouldn't let the otherone go down carelessly. (reread my longer post).
anyway for me this is an obvious vote ##stormtemplar
You keep saying odd things like this, and the thing is, I think you know better. I have read your old mafia game and your old scum QT from it.
If you are scum and basically have 2 people in a group of 13, expecting tons of modkills, it would be a solid strategy to go bussing your scum mate... You take a measured risk with it. You don't end up at LYLO x 2 with a strong connection to each other; you try to make sure that you play 1 + 1 scum rather than 2, just pushing other people harder than each other.
The only reason not to do that is if someone is really nervous about playing scum and afraid their bussing will have too strong an effect. I don't see that if you and playerboy are scum. Maybe it's plausible for stormtemplar/Balla. Unfortunately, that's another factor that makes both very possible.
I'm still sticking with stormtemplar for now, but doing some last digging
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I'm swapping to heavenz. My gut and my reads throughout more than half the game is starting to outweigh some strange notion that a very confused stormtemplar as scum tried to cover himself by randomly roleblocking JonnyLaw.
I realize I'm betting that scum had their perfect storm; basically, that the coin flip landed on edge. But this is how I'll feel better about the game when it ends, right or wrong.
If everyone else stays on stormtemplar (ironic name with the metaphor I used) he received 3 votes first and will be lynched, I'm fine with that too, the odds are a safer bet.
##Vote heavenz
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...that said, my belly's full of butterflies and I think I might look very stupid this entire game in a moment
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Votecount!
stormtemplar (3): Zaragon, heavenz, playerboy345, JonnyLaw
heavenz (3): stormtemplar, Balla24, Zaragon
Currently, stormtemplar is set to be lynched. (First to 3 votes)
The D3 deadline is in .
Remember, voting is mandatory!
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Zaragon do you want me to switch y/n
I'm fucking confused at this moment and don't know who to vote :/
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Both are scummy - heavenz in his posting and stormtemplar in his actions
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Up to you. Stay on him if you are town and doubt JonnyLaw is scum, playerboy, since it's you asking
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Time to see which super low probability situation it is T_T
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On October 03 2013 07:05 playerboy345 wrote:
I FEEL HORRIBLE
That's how you know you've played well as scum
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Very well played guys, you earned it scum team
gg
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Yea I want to see the obs QT aswell.
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I guess I'm glad I believed stormtemplar in the end, just wish the situation hadn't become only about believing him or not
So two RBers hit heavenz I guess? What are the odds haha
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http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=430766
guys go play more!
my biggest issue was how friggen low activity was this game, not just by modkills, but I've had first 24 hours of day 1 with double the filter size of this game at the finish.
Idk if that's the ideal you should shoot for, but a BIT more would be good :o
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Yeah I tried to post a lot more than I'm actually comfortable with just to push the game ahead. I'm (supposedly) better at analysis and reads than pressure. But I did everything wrong this game it seems
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Night Actions
N1
Zaragon check jonnylaw
Bereft block blurry
stormtemplar block heavenz
playerboy345 block heavenz
Balla24 kill bereft
N2
stormtemplar no action received
playerboy345 block jonnylaw
Balla24 kill koshi
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yeah... you guys really screwed yourselves by letting us sit... Koshi was really changing the tempo up and making it hard for us, even if he wasn't 100% going in the right direction...
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I added the roles/actions spreadsheet to the endgame post as well.
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On October 03 2013 07:12 Balla24 wrote:
yeah... you guys really screwed yourselves by letting us sit... Koshi was really changing the tempo up and making it hard for us, even if he wasn't 100% going in the right direction...
as an aside, koshi is too experienced to keep replacing in these hehe
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also improbable ≠ impossible
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oh yeah and the double block on heavenz LOL... we got pretty lucky with that AND the no block by storm but also playing 1 mafia down is pretty unlucky as well
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I /inned on the next newbie mini mafia, this shit is fun
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On October 03 2013 07:13 Umasi wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2013 07:12 Balla24 wrote:
yeah... you guys really screwed yourselves by letting us sit... Koshi was really changing the tempo up and making it hard for us, even if he wasn't 100% going in the right direction... as an aside, koshi is too experienced to keep replacing in these hehe
yeah seriously... as soon as he stepped in playerboy and i were like FUUUUUUUUUUCK
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i really really didn't want to roll scum on my 1st game haha... i'll in on the next game as well but i really dont want scum T_T
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Koshi too good man, without him noone would've known about C9++ shit. I think.
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What haha i was telling you the entire game about the possible roles...
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I still don't really understand the C9++ stuff lolololol
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On October 03 2013 07:13 cakepie wrote:
also improbable ≠ impossible
Yes I'm always aware of this, I was dismissing things pretty hard because I realized we would have a LYLO after day 2... One of the gambles I made was to dismiss the possibility of a scum and town RB hitting heavenz. Turns out to be a big mistake, obviously.
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It's easy... the creater of the game generates 7 random numbers. Each of those random numbers corresponds to a letter (decided by the # range shown). All the town blues are decided by the letters that are rolled, and the mafia roles are decided by the # of Ts that are rolled (because if it rolls a T that means a VT role is present, so the more VTs there are the less powerful the mafia teams are since there aren't as many blues).
Once all 7 rolls are done, the rest are given VTs. Makes it just random enough so you can't know exactly what there is at the beginning of the game until some flips/claims have occured.
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I'm curious though, why did you guys dismiss the possiblity of me/playerboy... it seemed like it was all in the very back of your minds.
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Personally, I pretty much had every possibility left in my mind but I realized there was not going to be much active pressure happening at LYLO. So I had to focus on whether to believe stormtemplar and remove some of the unlikely possibilities, try to apply some focused pressure myself on just a couple of people (anything else would be too diffuse and let scum breeze through, I felt)
2 Town Roleblockers + a scum and town roleblocker hitting heavenz seemed one of the more remote possibilities (since I wasn't roleblocked either)
My mistake
Sorry, heavenz, JonnyLaw, by the way. You each had a piece to the game I think
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Oh sorry to heavenz from me aswell, I guess I kind of fooled you too T_T
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yeah i think i probably pissed him off a bit lol T_T
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well I was sure balla24 was mafia. I thought it was 50/50 between Stormtemplar or JonnyLaw & Balla24.
But I knew it was impossible to convince zaragon from the point that balla24 has to be mafia. Anyway I wouldn't have guessed you ever.
It's quite sad that stormtemplar failed to do a roleblock, otherwise it would have been obvious that there was 2 roleblockers left, ... but then probably I would have been lynched lol.
gg wp, was fun. I wish there would have been a way to convince that zaragon that balla24 was 100% scum, but I couldn't do it. Stromtemplar was no help either though.
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IMO the me/playerboy case was definitely there... look how little I mentioned him and pushed him and how he tactically made that big post vs me/zaragon/onlywonderboy
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Yea stormtemplar forgetting to RB was a huge blunder of his, but even if he did RB town would've still lost.
I don't understand why people go afk after signing in for a game, I assume you know what you've signed in for, no? This game wouldn't have ended this quickly if there weren't 2 modkills :/ (or was it 3? Don't want to search for it T_T)
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But a lot of what you were saying about Balla had to do with him defending stormtemplar, didn't it? That's why I didn't focus on him, instead stormtemplar
Balla played a clever game, he wasn't tied to his scum mate much at all
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Not to mention I almost ignored all your defenses, I was like ok and that was it. Don't understand how people didn't find that suspicious
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THAT WAS MY IDEA
I TOLD HIM TO IGNORE ME
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On October 03 2013 07:34 playerboy345 wrote:
Yea stormtemplar forgetting to RB was a huge blunder of his, but even if he did RB town would've still lost.
I don't understand why people go afk after signing in for a game, I assume you know what you've signed in for, no? This game wouldn't have ended this quickly if there weren't 2 modkills :/ (or was it 3? Don't want to search for it T_T)
No, they would have been in a MUCH better position which is why i was freaking out after we sent in our night actions last night.
We banked on the fact that storm would block either heavenz or playerboy. If storm blocked heavenz it would have cleared both of them because of the fact that we blocked jonnylaw. You would have had to do some slick claiming in order to get out of this one and it would have been mad hard.
Only reason we blocked jonnylaw was because we thought he was a possible doctor and heavenz was an SK (another one of my tells which makes sense with the JL block). In this case we would have been fine but still... not as easy because theres a bit more info out there.
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the problem was that it was impossible to talk with stormtemplar. That's guy so weird... his jokes are so unfunny and pissed me off so much.
anyway, playedboy played mafia like me lol, I should have seen it. Now I feel bad about that.. not that stormtemplar died though.
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The hint for stormtemplar was (and I thought stormtemplar understood when he EBWOPed something like "heavenz/playerboy mafia" before going to bed/away monday) that he should RB playerboy. If no other RB had happened then, we would first have suspected heavenz. But we might have figured it out, I wouldn't be as extremely sceptical of stormtemplar then
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heavenz calling someone weird? What has the world become to? xD
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Zaragon and heavenz, you should both sign in on the next newbie mini mafia if you guys have the time and have played less then 3 games. It'll be fun ^^
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I was reasonable beside the mess on day2.
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next game won't be as easy for u bro xD
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you just need to work on explaining your accusations... the onlywonderboy thing killed you and I still don't know what happened there..
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I still can't belive that we had 3 roleblockers... what the fuck.
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any why would he roleblock me on day1, this guy deserved to die so hard.
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oh ja I wanted to kill him... well, I guess when this game gets personal as town you have a problem
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Might sign for the next one in a few days. I've enjoyed this one and Noir and could do another Newbie, but I'm a little demotivated for the moment
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On October 03 2013 07:44 Balla24 wrote:
you just need to work on explaining your accusations... the onlywonderboy thing killed you and I still don't know what happened there..
I can't really recall, I was just looking at the player names and I found owb play especially boring, and I thought maybe he would put up a good defence where he brings some idea who should be scum etc.. I am not going to say it's his fault, he was much more towny than I was. Next time when I am town I'll try to get me lynched before it's lylo ^-^
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On October 03 2013 07:54 Zaragon wrote:
Might sign for the next one in a few days. I've enjoyed this one and Noir and could do another Newbie, but I'm a little demotivated for the moment
loss is really not your fault, you played the best town by far. The rest of us town messed up. The problem with me and stormtemplar was bad, JonnyLaw was busy and not doing much.
Also the draft was unprobably as fuck
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On October 03 2013 07:54 Zaragon wrote:
Might sign for the next one in a few days. I've enjoyed this one and Noir and could do another Newbie, but I'm a little demotivated for the moment
never give up! Trust your instincts!
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yeah zaragon you played really well IMO.. at least compared to everyone else..
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Thanks guys, we'll see
I'm pretty sure scum played a better game here though
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On October 03 2013 08:11 Zaragon wrote:
Thanks guys, we'll see
I'm pretty sure scum played a better game here though
yeah, everyone learned something though, non ?
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Yes good game, I'm glad it turned into something interesting even with the inactives.
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yeah like how to spell my name Kappa P
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Sorry guys. I really wanted to push playerboy's case again today but I've been swamped at work the last two days. I had a great time playing and will definitely play again soon. I'd join the next game but I'm out of town on business for ten days starting in a week.
Also, congrats mafia scum you guys did well. And fuck it's just like I said in my last post; storm's just a bad townie similar to MLuneth. This is going to be my new online time killer. Thanks for the game and I'm just glad it wasn't Zaragon scum in the end. I had a nagging feeling he was laughing scum all game.
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I see obs QT seemed to share that notion, but I don't see it myself. So much of what I did would have been so risky as scum, including claiming 1-Shot Cop with a town check rather than saying I had a red check on playerboy or something (I probably even should have faked that as town if I trusted my gut a bit more and was confident enough to make any fake claim, by the way--that'd certainly have been a different game after)
But I suppose I don't know how I would play scum until I do.
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Ah actually I hadn't even thought much about that angle, as scum I couldn't fake a red check without sacrificing myself of course. Hmm yes my play would have made sense as scum. It's funny I hadn't even needed to consider it much
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I played the same way after you said I checked clear. Only when Koshi said I could be GF did I consider anything else.
Man, this game is fun.
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congrats scum team!
why you guize kill me 1st
on a more serious note, wasn't following too closely, but looks like storm claiming to be yet another town RB + forgetting to do his night action D2 really threw a wrench in things. plus all the modkills... these newbie games seem to always suffer from a lack of activity. but at the same time the non-newbie games look too active for me to participate in
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GJ Scum! I'm glad you won! Great game all.
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In all fairness I think the modkills hurt the mafia more than the town. 1 to 2 ratio when the game starts at a 3 to 10 ratio is pretty terrible T_T
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Well keep in mind what kind of information town lost and how much you gained as mafia day 1. In a lot of ways the game basically reset at 7-2 with redistributed power roles. I have no idea about the balance of it, but I know a demotivated town ruined a whole lot of interaction because of inactivity. Just hurts the game in general
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damn, now you people can have conversations :D. Should force that in the game as well.
wp. at first I thought heavenz, Bella and playerboy were the highest chances on scum, but with the StormTemplar RB claim I had to add jonnywup as GF. And then I start doubting the claim -_-. Really thought I would have 48 more hours after Zaragon was confirmed cop and Stormtemplar confirmed RB for scum...
gg. Check out other games if you like playing mafia!
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On October 03 2013 14:52 Balla24 wrote:
In all fairness I think the modkills hurt the mafia more than the town. 1 to 2 ratio when the game starts at a 3 to 10 ratio is pretty terrible T_T
On October 03 2013 15:34 Zaragon wrote:
Well keep in mind what kind of information town lost and how much you gained as mafia day 1. In a lot of ways the game basically reset at 7-2 with redistributed power roles. I have no idea about the balance of it, but I know a demotivated town ruined a whole lot of interaction because of inactivity. Just hurts the game in general
Hosts did what we could to balance the remaining game on the basis of 5v2 with the remaining roles being RB vs RB (1-shot cop spent; GF therefore also moot), keeping in mind the information that was already out there due to the claimed cop greencheck and people claiming to have gotten roleblocked -- notice the emphasis there on claims: these are not "confirmed facts" and this the potential for WIFOM is there depending on whether you believe the claims or not.
The way we set it up, as of the start of N2 both factions had a decent chance of winning the game.
I can understand that scumteam would feel threatened with a more experienced player jumping in and kickstarting the discussion, but c'mon, we're not going to just let you cruise to victory thanks to low activity, we're going to make sure you work for it (just kidding =Þ).
Seriously though, it was necessary to replace Blurry -- who failed to make any mention of being roleblocked N1. If we modkilled 3 for 1, town would be going into a 4v2 at N2, and most likely 3v2 after the nightkill, and missing this crucial piece of information.
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I think you did a great job making the odds fair. We had a shot to win the game and got outplayed.
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It was super fun coaching scum. I hope you all had fun with me around!
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On October 03 2013 19:32 cakepie wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2013 14:52 Balla24 wrote:
In all fairness I think the modkills hurt the mafia more than the town. 1 to 2 ratio when the game starts at a 3 to 10 ratio is pretty terrible T_T Show nested quote +On October 03 2013 15:34 Zaragon wrote:
Well keep in mind what kind of information town lost and how much you gained as mafia day 1. In a lot of ways the game basically reset at 7-2 with redistributed power roles. I have no idea about the balance of it, but I know a demotivated town ruined a whole lot of interaction because of inactivity. Just hurts the game in general Hosts did what we could to balance the remaining game on the basis of 5v2 with the remaining roles being RB vs RB (1-shot cop spent; GF therefore also moot), keeping in mind the information that was already out there due to the claimed cop greencheck and people claiming to have gotten roleblocked -- notice the emphasis there on claims: these are not "confirmed facts" and this the potential for WIFOM is there depending on whether you believe the claims or not. The way we set it up, as of the start of N2 both factions had a decent chance of winning the game. I can understand that scumteam would feel threatened with a more experienced player jumping in and kickstarting the discussion, but c'mon, we're not going to just let you cruise to victory thanks to low activity, we're going to make sure you work for it (just kidding =Þ). Seriously though, it was necessary to replace Blurry -- who failed to make any mention of being roleblocked N1. If we modkilled 3 for 1, town would be going into a 4v2 at N2, and most likely 3v2 after the nightkill, and missing this crucial piece of information.
Yes I think it was the best you could have done in the circumstances, it was a good game at that point. Some odd dynamics, that's about it; unavoidable
Koshi did a good job as well IMO. Coming in like he did he could have been a lot less open and instead pressured people about details. But he basically laid out information for both teams. I could see mafia being intimidated about him at LYLO though
I hope stormtemplar isn't feeling too bad about this game, by the way. If you're around, I hope you know that pressuring you about why you missed the RB was only part of the game; we needed to see your reaction. Absolutely no hard feelings, mistakes are part of the game for everyone
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EPT
