EPTcan you organize your top 3 scumreads for me and give elaborate reasoning on them while I do mine?
Desert Mini Mafia - Page 21
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debears
United States2516 Posts
can you organize your top 3 scumreads for me and give elaborate reasoning on them while I do mine? | ||
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Hopeless1der
United States5836 Posts
On August 30 2013 01:52 Tutankoopa wrote: Hopeless, look me in the eye and tell me that you think this post... ...implies a serious intent to lynch. If it doesn't, your entire case against me falls apart. How long are you going to keep pretending like you have a real case? Welp theres my case falling apart guys. He got me. I'll go die of dehydration now. | ||
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debears
United States2516 Posts
On August 30 2013 01:49 yamato77 wrote: [/b][b]I'm really only interested in figuring out the alignments of Marv and Hapa, because if they are town they will figure the rest of you out and we'll win the game. If they are scum we lynch them and the game becomes far easier to figure out. So forgive me for ignoring everyone else, my posts will be focused on them. First of all, the way Marv entered the thread earlier today acting superior is a "holier than thou" attitude that I would not expect from town Marv towards two players he has played with so much in the past (Oats and myself). Mind you, his interactions with us basically served no purpose other than to establish his early activity, discredit my early vote, and to shit up the thread with Oats. He doesn't think either of us are mafia. Plenty of mafia motivation in his actions there. Since then, of course, he's been pro-town, but I know he's more than capable of that for at least a few hours. What is even more perplexing to me is that Hapa, when questioned about the alignment of Marv, specifically said that this did not look like a "holier-than-thou" scum-Marv. If Hapa was town and Marv scum, he may be the only one well-versed enough in the wiles of mafia Marvellosity to truly push his lynch, but this shows that he's either not reading Marv very closely or has pre-decided what he thinks of Marv with some information from out of the thread. Either way, this is what a mafia Hapa would be like regarding Marv as either alignment. I may yet be wrong and this could be attributable to Hapa being up late and tired from all the awesome DotA we played, but it's something to note. Aside from those interactions, I've yet to be particularly impressed by the scumhunting efforts of either player, but it is still in the first half of D1 and there is time yet to do better. Hapa going after debears was not what I usually see out of him as town. If anyone wants to talk about the alignment of these two, feel free to respond. I will be on thread later. If I was a vig yamato.........don't go down this path | ||
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sciberbia
United States1359 Posts
On August 30 2013 01:49 yamato77 wrote: I'm really only interested in figuring out the alignments of Marv and Hapa, because if they are town they will figure the rest of you out and we'll win the game. I just want to say that this is an absolutely terrible attitude and I really hope nobody else thinks like this. | ||
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43270 Posts
On August 30 2013 01:54 debears wrote: rayne: can you organize your top 3 scumreads for me and give elaborate reasoning on them while I do mine? Tutankoopa: - I can't see any direction in his play - When i ask about his motives behind his actions he sums up what he did, not why he did (which is what i am asking). Multiple times. - He has apparently no reads at all. Sylencia: - Him landing on reading Sno is weird. He says he went into Sno's filter by reading Hopeless' filter and the post where Hopeless calls sno out for "appearing that he is reading". That post of Hopeless is bullshit (because it's the second post in the game he refers to - Sno appears to be reading the game by reading the OP? wtf?). However when Sylencia reaches Sno's filter he points out something else that implies Sno is not reading but appearing to be reading. I find that whole scene fishy. Hopeless: - Calling out Sno at the start of the game (read my Sylencia read) for bullshit reasons. - Seemingly not understanding Tutankoopa's first post and the follow up of his after that. Really, it's quite obvious. - Still arguing about that, and that's pretty much the only thing he has done besides the Sno thingy. | ||
yamato77
11589 Posts
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43270 Posts
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Onegu
United States9699 Posts
On August 30 2013 01:58 Hopeless1der wrote: Welp theres my case falling apart guys. He got me. I'll go die of dehydration now. This is all you got? Either drop the sarcasm and make a response that is actually a counterpoint. Or if not sarcasm move on to something else. Not he got me. | ||
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43270 Posts
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Sn0_Man
Tebellong44238 Posts
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yamato77
11589 Posts
On August 30 2013 02:17 raynpelikoneet wrote: yamato what would you have expected Hapa to do if not going after debears? It's just a shit read. I don't expect him to make a shit post like that and act "pro-town" by telling the triumvirate of me/oats/Marv to stop shitting up the thread and not comment on any of us. | ||
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yamato77
11589 Posts
On August 30 2013 02:18 Sn0_Man wrote: Well yam, you sure spent a lot of time writing up some seriously inconclusive stuff on Marv/Hapa. I think it's quite clear that I'm suspicious of both of them. | ||
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Onegu
United States9699 Posts
On August 30 2013 01:49 yamato77 wrote: I'm really only interested in figuring out the alignments of Marv and Hapa, because if they are town they will figure the rest of you out and we'll win the game. If they are scum we lynch them and the game becomes far easier to figure out. So forgive me for ignoring everyone else, my posts will be focused on them. First of all, the way Marv entered the thread earlier today acting superior is a "holier than thou" attitude that I would not expect from town Marv towards two players he has played with so much in the past (Oats and myself). Mind you, his interactions with us basically served no purpose other than to establish his early activity, discredit my early vote, and to shit up the thread with Oats. He doesn't think either of us are mafia. Plenty of mafia motivation in his actions there. Since then, of course, he's been pro-town, but I know he's more than capable of that for at least a few hours. What is even more perplexing to me is that Hapa, when questioned about the alignment of Marv, specifically said that this did not look like a "holier-than-thou" scum-Marv. If Hapa was town and Marv scum, he may be the only one well-versed enough in the wiles of mafia Marvellosity to truly push his lynch, but this shows that he's either not reading Marv very closely or has pre-decided what he thinks of Marv with some information from out of the thread. Either way, this is what a mafia Hapa would be like regarding Marv as either alignment. I may yet be wrong and this could be attributable to Hapa being up late and tired from all the awesome DotA we played, but it's something to note. Aside from those interactions, I've yet to be particularly impressed by the scumhunting efforts of either player, but it is still in the first half of D1 and there is time yet to do better. Hapa going after debears was not what I usually see out of him as town. If anyone wants to talk about the alignment of these two, feel free to respond. I will be on thread later. I actually agree with this post alot, and it gives me heavy town read from yamato, as I have only played with him being mafia and he had zero posts like this. I dont know thier meta as well as alot of people, but I do like how hapa called me out with reasons, while marv just said I would be the second person he would lynch because he doesnt know where I am going. | ||
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debears
United States2516 Posts
1) He speculates in a mafia oriented mindset 2) He makes posts to look like contributing without doing so 3) His interaction with raynp 4) Not actually scumhunting while asking others to do so. Speculation His early game posts were alarming for me. There are some mafia motivations in his posts, which are kinda worrisome. Here, he makes a speculation post. This shit happens all the time, but one thing really jumped out: his mention of a third party role. In my experience, mafia tend to think of whether there are third parties in the game because they are a decent sized threat to mafia. As town, third parties are almost always aligned with the town, trying to find mafia, until one mafia is killed. Here's another mention of third party + Show Spoiler + On August 29 2013 10:44 sciberbia wrote: It was to shut down speculation on 2 scum teams because I don't think that's very likely. It was also to bring to everyone's attention the strong possibility of one or more third parties. >_> yea I'll be around but I really don't feel like discussing any of this start-of-game stuff any longer so I hope you plan on changing the topic. Contributing while not This next post is another one that typically happens in games. The "let's get this organized guys!" post. It can be done by town really wanting to have it organized, but early d1 is typically a shitfest anyways. Mafia do it to post something. Alone, doesn't mean much. With the aforementioned post, a little worrying to me. His early game contributions were lacking for a town player. Ok, now for something that really jumped out at me. Early in the game, Scribs says "ignore raynp". On August 29 2013 08:55 sciberbia wrote: The point of my first post was to indicate my presence to the rest of the thread and invite people to start a discussion with me. Said discussion would in fact help me find mafia, but instead you are trying to turn the thread into the raynpelikoneet-circus, which I am unable to make much meaningful analysis on. I would appreciate it if you took a break and shared your 'analysis' with us tomorrow. I suggest everyone ignore rayn for the time-being, and request that all votes be accompanied by a serious explanation. But, later what does he himself do? He gets into explaining himself thoroughly with raynp. + Show Spoiler + On August 29 2013 10:01 sciberbia wrote: But if I voted for one of my townreads then we'd be on the same page?  + Show Spoiler +this is a joke If you point me to something specific I'll try to clear it up for you. Generally speaking, my first two or three posts were mainly formalities to get discussion going, and my last two posts have been dedicated towards getting information on TK's thought process and sharing my thoughts on his alignment with the rest of the thread. On August 29 2013 10:15 sciberbia wrote: I apologize for offending you rayn. I was in a rather bad mood because
Due to my rather bad mood, I perhaps was harsher than was warranted, but the main point of my discourse was to try to steer the thread towards (imo) more productive discussion. On August 29 2013 10:29 sciberbia wrote: OK perhaps I should have made this more clear rayn. I don't want people to ignore ALL of your posts -- only the posts that are distractions with no real content. I'm not trying to "shut you down" and I have no problem with you making arguments like Sno_man is town because his first post is not something that scum would post. I don't necessarily agree with that argument, but I can see your thought process behind it and it's one of the reasons I think you're town this game. You made some analysis towards the end of Ego Mini that I really liked, and in general I definitely don't want people to ignore your actual analyses. But both at the start of Ego Mini and at the start of this game you made a bunch of brash votes with little to no reasoning given. This isn't actual 'analysis' (hence the quotes) which is why I'd prefer it be ignored. I don't want people to pay attention to things like sno_man is town even though I'm voting for him (no explanation given at first), yamato is town (no explanation given) or sciberbia is scum (for being too serious). Why in the hell would scribs be so interested in defending himself against someone who "he wants people to ignore" instead of scumhunting. Especially someone whom he was starting to think was town. Notice the timestamp in the above posts. Notice the one in the post below On August 29 2013 11:31 sciberbia wrote: First, just so it's clear to the thread, I'm like 95% sure that rayn is town (or at least not scum), because
I explained most of my thought process here: + Show Spoiler [me] + On August 29 2013 09:43 sciberbia wrote: on TK I'm having a hard time deciding whether TK's response was scum or town motivated. I can easily see scum motivation in trying to justify some wagon on rayn (assuming rayn is town), especially after sheeping onto yamato's policy wagon. However, I very much like his response to my prodding. The fact that he deemed his questions to rayn a waste of time and decided to ignore rayn indicates a more townie thought process. Also the fact that he spontaneously changed direction over the course of three minutes is a point in his favor. I guess I'm back to nullish on TK. His most recent posts look fine to me. At least he posted some actual reads. I'm open to persuasion but right now I don't see any good reason to think he is scum. I'm leaning town if anything. Within an hour, he goes from explaining himself to a 95% townread, which tells me he thought raynp was town to some degree while defending himself If you, as town, think someone is not worth talking to, then defend yourself with consecutive posts against them later, what does that say about your psychological mindset? It says that you are worried about what that person thinks. Who in general is more worried about getting on the good side of others (when they say "ignore this person")? Mafia Scumhunters unite Finally, moving from that, what were Scribs scumhunting contributions up to that point? + Show Spoiler + On August 29 2013 09:11 sciberbia wrote: "/sheep oats" was not, but I did appreciate your follow-up explanation, and I agree that TK's thought process is difficult to follow from a town perspective. @Tutankoopa Please explain your thought process this game with regards to rayn's alignment. Specifically, why did you pose a series of questions to him, and why did you then deem those questions as unworthy of answering? Did you think he might be scum because of the 'stunt' he pulled with his initial vote? If so, what changed your mind? He dropped this one, although it was justified. On August 29 2013 11:31 sciberbia wrote: First, just so it's clear to the thread, I'm like 95% sure that rayn is town (or at least not scum), because
I explained most of my thought process here: + Show Spoiler [me] + On August 29 2013 09:43 sciberbia wrote: on TK I'm having a hard time deciding whether TK's response was scum or town motivated. I can easily see scum motivation in trying to justify some wagon on rayn (assuming rayn is town), especially after sheeping onto yamato's policy wagon. However, I very much like his response to my prodding. The fact that he deemed his questions to rayn a waste of time and decided to ignore rayn indicates a more townie thought process. Also the fact that he spontaneously changed direction over the course of three minutes is a point in his favor. I guess I'm back to nullish on TK. His most recent posts look fine to me. At least he posted some actual reads. I'm open to persuasion but right now I don't see any good reason to think he is scum. I'm leaning town if anything. A 95% town read day one against someone who is definitely not 95% town On August 29 2013 11:39 sciberbia wrote: If I were to offer you 1 million dollars if you could correctly identify 1 scum, who would your guess be and why? Asking someone else for scumreads despite not giving his own. Then the posts against me. So, in total, really nothing from scumhunting there. I believe Scribs is scum, and people need to look at his filter and see what I see. | ||
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yamato77
11589 Posts
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Onegu
United States9699 Posts
I agree it is very important to figure out thier alignments asap as they are the most important to the game as either alignment. | ||
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debears
United States2516 Posts
On August 30 2013 02:12 raynpelikoneet wrote: Tutankoopa: - I can't see any direction in his play - When i ask about his motives behind his actions he sums up what he did, not why he did (which is what i am asking). Multiple times. - He has apparently no reads at all. Sylencia: - Him landing on reading Sno is weird. He says he went into Sno's filter by reading Hopeless' filter and the post where Hopeless calls sno out for "appearing that he is reading". That post of Hopeless is bullshit (because it's the second post in the game he refers to - Sno appears to be reading the game by reading the OP? wtf?). However when Sylencia reaches Sno's filter he points out something else that implies Sno is not reading but appearing to be reading. I find that whole scene fishy. Hopeless: - Calling out Sno at the start of the game (read my Sylencia read) for bullshit reasons. - Seemingly not understanding Tutankoopa's first post and the follow up of his after that. Really, it's quite obvious. - Still arguing about that, and that's pretty much the only thing he has done besides the Sno thingy. . I love the sylencia read. I will do a short post on him in a minute on my take of him. Tut is a smurf. It happens. I'll go under the assumption he's someone good. I'd say give him another day because he could just be messing around. I don't see anything jumping out as "omg he's so scum". Hopeless always looks scummy to me (Mario Mini what what). The thing is he always seems to lurk, yet I consider him a decent player. I don't want to lynch him right now. | ||
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yamato77
11589 Posts
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43270 Posts
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Sn0_Man
Tebellong44238 Posts
On August 29 2013 18:31 marvellosity wrote: scibby's posts (especially at first) look weird and constructed as fuck to me but then again I thought the same in Ego and he was town, I guess I'll wait and see if he stays involved I'm kinda using it as a reason to dismiss debears case but I'll admit A) Marv looks unhelpful this game so I'm not sure I should use anything he says to make reads and B) I've never played with sciberbia. | ||
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