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TL Mafia LXII: TL Noir - Page 8

Forum Index > TL Mafia
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FirmTofu
Profile Joined March 2011
United States1956 Posts
September 30 2013 07:26 GMT
#5125
Clearly, all my reads have been wrong this game. I'm a little disheartened by it all. iamp must be scum. He's been buddying me when I've been wrong about basically everything. That's exactly what scum do to gain thread power.
I lie a lot when I'm town. I never lie when I'm scum.
FirmTofu
Profile Joined March 2011
United States1956 Posts
September 30 2013 07:28 GMT
#5126
I really wish geript didn't modkill himself for no reason. I would've put him in town territory for his play today. ><
I lie a lot when I'm town. I never lie when I'm scum.
FirmTofu
Profile Joined March 2011
United States1956 Posts
October 01 2013 04:06 GMT
#5377
Just ask me whatever and I'll respond as best I can. In the meantime, I'm going to go through the filters and decide who I want to lynch.
I lie a lot when I'm town. I never lie when I'm scum.
FirmTofu
Profile Joined March 2011
United States1956 Posts
October 01 2013 04:11 GMT
#5379
On October 01 2013 13:09 Mocsta wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 01 2013 13:06 FirmTofu wrote:
Just ask me whatever and I'll respond as best I can. In the meantime, I'm going to go through the filters and decide who I want to lynch.

Are u going to mount a defense against kita case?

I've found that defending myself from general points is largely a waste of time on TLmafia. I can defend if you insist, but I fear it will just derail the thread into talking about me when we should be talking about scum.
I lie a lot when I'm town. I never lie when I'm scum.
FirmTofu
Profile Joined March 2011
United States1956 Posts
October 01 2013 04:38 GMT
#5381
On October 01 2013 13:21 Mocsta wrote:
That's a smooth line.

I thought kita points were far from general and pertained directly to motive and mindset.

I look forward to your retort to the case.

They were far from specific, hence they were general.

The case in question.
On October 01 2013 10:49 kitaman27 wrote:
The case against FirmTofu

[image loading]


As I mentioned earlier, WaveofShadow, Zaragon, Umasi, and Mattchew all mentioned FT as one of their mafia suspects before their deaths. All three players that died last night wanted to kill him. These kills were strange enough that I think it is likely that they were picked out for their reads.

On day one, FT is clearly around and reading the thread at the start of the game, yet he fails to provide a lynch candidate. He appears to be afk towards the end of the day and never votes, so I'll chalk this up as a null tell.

Show nested quote +
On September 23 2013 19:23 FirmTofu wrote:
Finally got some decent reads. :D

Firstly, I want to address the vigi situation.

As a vigilante you want to shoot the people who are currently useless and are unlikely to become useful in the future. I'll go through a few people and address the value of shooting them.

We have recent replacement inactives in Malongo, Deconduo, and Blazinghand. These guys deserve some time to catch up to the thread. Their deaths would not serve a higher purpose in the short-term.

Then we have people like VayneAuthority, kush, and VE. These are people that are capable of strong town games, but are currently either just trolling or posting with a subdued interest. I would say that this group of people becomes more easy to read as the game progresses, hence they aren't the best vig shots.

Tier 3 are people who are sitting in the semi-lurker category, but have some posts of substance. I would include Pandain, JAT, Mr.CC, Zaragon, Sentinel, Umasi, Stutters, and a few others I can't remember in this grouping. I believe that this group probably holds the majority of the scumteam. These are people that want to stay just above lurker territory so as to avoid suspicion. I think most of these guys would be good vig shots as long as some discretion is used.

Finally you have the completely useless. These are people that aren't trying to get better and aren't going to play better when asked. They are either hardcore lurking or posting little to no substance. Examples include Risen, Coag, and Lonemeow. Anyone who is in this category is a decent shot from a vig perspective, but is less likely to be scum than the previous category I mentioned.


Once night two starts, he comes out with the trademark "large post that says absolutely nothing". Apparently addressing the vig situation really means "I'm going to list 10 different players you could consider shooting based on activity". It really shouldn't taken this much time for him to essentially tell us that he is fine with a third of the game getting shot. He later posts his read on Zaragon and tells the vig to shoot him. If this was his scum read, then why did he just spend the last fifteen minutes with his list post?

Throughout the game, he produces several half-hearted cases against players, but he never actually goes after his targets. There is a limited amount of interaction with the players he suspects. A lot of the time, he asks others to ask him questions, rather than contribution on topics that he finds important on his own.

Show nested quote +
On September 24 2013 08:28 FirmTofu wrote:
Cephiro looks like me in Desert with less trolling. He's an excellent vig shot but a mediocre lynch. He sounds like he's having trouble catching up to the thread, an issue I can relate to. The rest of his filter is pretty crappy, but I don't think it makes him scum necessarily.


This post is a really generic soft defend. He doesn't want to commit to a town read on Ceph, so he states that he is fine with a vig shot, yet wouldn't lynch him. This allows him to vote elsewhere later on in the cycle.

Show nested quote +
On September 26 2013 13:48 FirmTofu wrote:
I'm pretty disappointed that I couldn't make the deadline today. You guys went full retard. Never go full retard.

I just skimmed the thread on my phone so I'm gonna do a full read through and do some analysis.


This is the scummiest post in his filter. I'm lost count of the number of times a scum player shows up after the lynch only to yell at town for something they showed no interest in preventing. He criticizes town for the LoneMeow lynch. The problem? He hasn't defended LoneMeow all game. He voted Umasi, a player who had no chance of getting lynched and essentially went afk again when the lynch was being decided. I gave him a pass for doing it on day one, but this is now two days in a row where he has displayed his apathy for the lynch.

When he performs his post lynch analysis, he still never acknowledges that cephiro is scum. So if he is frustrated about town going "full retard", how could he think it was a terrible lynch if the alternative wasn't incredibly scummy in his opinion?

Show nested quote +
On September 27 2013 14:02 FirmTofu wrote:
Also, I think Cephiro is a better lynch than Mocsta. I still don't see the scum motivation in what Mocsta did and Cephiro has been altogether useless this entire game.


On day three, he votes geript, but makes this post about Cephiro. Who exactly is he trying to convince? The vote is clearly going to be a blow out. Despite not being able to see scum motivation from Mocsta, he has a revelation post flip and notices the connection. Is this honestly something that he wouldn't consider beforehand?

There is a pretty apologetic theme from most of his posts and there are several points where he seems more interested in defending himself or making himself look good with unnaturally worded posts, rather than pushing his prefered mafia lynch. I'm not sure if there is anyone in this game that actually has a town read on FT, which generally points to mafia.

##Vote: FirmTofu

"trademark post that says nothing" is a generalization. Kita thinks this is scummy because he's seen scum play this way in the past.

"This post is a generic soft-defend" is a generalization. Kita thinks this is scummy because he's seen scum soft-defend each other in the past.

"I'm lost count of the number of times a scum player shows up after the lynch only to yell at town for something they showed no interest in preventing" is a generalization. Kita thinks this is scummy because he's seen scum showing up after lynch to yell at town.

"There is a pretty apologetic theme from most of his posts and there are several points where he seems more interested in defending himself or making himself look good with unnaturally worded posts, rather than pushing his prefered mafia lynch" is a generalization. Kita thinks this is scummy because people who apologize a lot generally flip mafia in his past experience.

"I'm not sure if there is anyone in this game that actually has a town read on FT, which generally points to mafia." is a generalization. Kita thinks this is scummy because he's seen people flip scum when no one has a town read on them.


Basically, I can't "defend" myself from this case because it relies on generalizations about how scum usually play. I'm sure scum do this a lot, and Kita would be right a large majority of the time if he applies this logic to all of his games. However, these heuristics simply do not hold true for me. Kita has never played with me and does not know that I play this way as town and scum.
I lie a lot when I'm town. I never lie when I'm scum.
FirmTofu
Profile Joined March 2011
United States1956 Posts
October 01 2013 05:15 GMT
#5384
On October 01 2013 13:58 Mocsta wrote:
And ft

In your opinion. Is kitamin misguided town using heuristics or scum looking to mislynch off "generalities"

I wouldn't even say misguided. These heuristics would work in a majority of cases. They just don't happen to work for me. I would say he is town, yes.
I lie a lot when I'm town. I never lie when I'm scum.
FirmTofu
Profile Joined March 2011
United States1956 Posts
October 01 2013 05:16 GMT
#5385
On October 01 2013 13:45 Mocsta wrote:
Interesting

I'm going to have to give this some thought.

Ft
Please comment in cc cop claim
And
Risen

Gotta read a bit, but I will give thoughts soon.
I lie a lot when I'm town. I never lie when I'm scum.
FirmTofu
Profile Joined March 2011
United States1956 Posts
October 01 2013 07:24 GMT
#5389
On October 01 2013 16:19 Pandain wrote:
Firm are you still reading?

Yes, what's up?
I lie a lot when I'm town. I never lie when I'm scum.
FirmTofu
Profile Joined March 2011
United States1956 Posts
October 01 2013 07:32 GMT
#5391
On October 01 2013 14:52 Mocsta wrote:
FirmTofu

(1)
Show nested quote +
On September 30 2013 16:22 FirmTofu wrote:
This thread is such a mess. I'm glad Cephiro flipped scum. It provides the Mocsta motivation for vote switching last minute as scum.

##vote: Mocsta

Next post will have thoughts incoming.


(2)
Show nested quote +
On October 01 2013 13:12 FirmTofu wrote:
##unvote



What changed?

People posted. I have to catch up before voting. It's kind of a rule I have.
I lie a lot when I'm town. I never lie when I'm scum.
FirmTofu
Profile Joined March 2011
United States1956 Posts
October 01 2013 07:33 GMT
#5392
You have any questions for me Pandain?
I lie a lot when I'm town. I never lie when I'm scum.
FirmTofu
Profile Joined March 2011
United States1956 Posts
October 01 2013 07:37 GMT
#5394
Did anyone notice this in Deconduo's filter?

Votes Cephiro, sounding very confident...
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=423071&currentpage=191#3813
...then switches to geript randomly with a pretty shitty reason when all hell broke loose between the LM and Cephiro lynches.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=423071&currentpage=200#3981

This is the perfect scum move. It's silent, but it did a good job to guarantee that LM would be lynched instead of Cephiro.
I lie a lot when I'm town. I never lie when I'm scum.
FirmTofu
Profile Joined March 2011
United States1956 Posts
October 01 2013 07:39 GMT
#5395
After a few people call him out on the vote switch, he is back on Cephiro.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=423071&currentpage=242#4824
I think he made a move to switch to geript to test the waters and then switched back to Cephiro when it was clear he couldn't get away with it.
I lie a lot when I'm town. I never lie when I'm scum.
FirmTofu
Profile Joined March 2011
United States1956 Posts
October 01 2013 07:47 GMT
#5396
OO feels like misguided town right now. The guy thinks that people who vote incorrectly on lynches are automatically scum. Sorry to disappoint, OO, but that's not how mafia works. In my experience, mafia are correct more often than not when a townie is about to be lynched.

Yes, I was wrong on Umasi and geript. However, both of these players were extremely scummy. You should read my posts and see if you can follow my thought process on these two players. If it makes sense to you, don't vote me. If it doesn't make sense, then vote me. That's how you should play. Voting patterns aren't going to figure out the game. You need context.
I lie a lot when I'm town. I never lie when I'm scum.
FirmTofu
Profile Joined March 2011
United States1956 Posts
October 01 2013 07:50 GMT
#5397
Mr.CC's cop claim is believable. Not because it makes sense, but because it would be a terrible play as scum. Let's say Mr.CC got VE lynched and he's scum.

What would he do then? The entire town would just lynch him the following day and we all know that a 1town for 1 mafia trade is terrible for mafia.

The cop claim makes no sense from a mafia perspective. CC has to be town.
I lie a lot when I'm town. I never lie when I'm scum.
FirmTofu
Profile Joined March 2011
United States1956 Posts
October 01 2013 08:12 GMT
#5398
Okay, so Mocsta's play is still an unreadable train wreck. He still looks really bad after Cephiro's mafia flip, so I'd still be willing to vote him but I still have some reservations.

Right now, I'd rather kill deconduo. My case on him is a few posts back. His behavior during the voting time was extremely sketchy. Better to kill him now than later considering he's not going to make himself useful anytime soon. I definitely don't want him around during LYLO.

##vote: deconduo
I lie a lot when I'm town. I never lie when I'm scum.
FirmTofu
Profile Joined March 2011
United States1956 Posts
October 01 2013 08:15 GMT
#5399
This thread is so dead...

Good night, yo.
I lie a lot when I'm town. I never lie when I'm scum.
FirmTofu
Profile Joined March 2011
United States1956 Posts
October 01 2013 18:14 GMT
#5536
On October 01 2013 17:47 Koshi wrote:
Scum mocsta so tryhard.
##unvote
##vote FirmTofu

Why are you voting me? Most of your posts indicate that Mocsta is a stronger scumread of yours than I am. You've talked more about Mocsta and you've expressed fear that I may flip town. If you were town, I'd expect you to be voting for Mocsta right now.
I lie a lot when I'm town. I never lie when I'm scum.
FirmTofu
Profile Joined March 2011
United States1956 Posts
October 01 2013 18:16 GMT
#5539
On October 01 2013 06:08 Koshi wrote:
Summary last games FT:

Titanic: Pretty good play by FT. Good filter/good everything. Scum
GoT. 2 page filter with pregame banter. Town.
Persona: FT didn't bother too much. But it was okish. Decent filter. Scum
Desert: Didn't follow it closely but it was really bad right? he had 1 page filter. Town

Seems like more tryhard as scum. 8 pages here.
Remember how I told you rayn voted CR without good reasoning over FT?

Yeah...

This relatively recent post of yours says that my meta is not in line with a scum FT. If you truly believed this, why are you still voting me, Koshi?
I lie a lot when I'm town. I never lie when I'm scum.
FirmTofu
Profile Joined March 2011
United States1956 Posts
October 01 2013 18:17 GMT
#5541
On October 02 2013 03:16 justanothertownie wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 02 2013 03:14 FirmTofu wrote:
On October 01 2013 17:47 Koshi wrote:
Scum mocsta so tryhard.
##unvote
##vote FirmTofu

Why are you voting me? Most of your posts indicate that Mocsta is a stronger scumread of yours than I am. You've talked more about Mocsta and you've expressed fear that I may flip town. If you were town, I'd expect you to be voting for Mocsta right now.

Good point. Who do you want to lynch or are you gonna waste your vote again?

Thankfully, I can actually be around during lynch today. I will probably use my vote on Deconduo/Mocsta, depending on which one has more votes.
I lie a lot when I'm town. I never lie when I'm scum.
FirmTofu
Profile Joined March 2011
United States1956 Posts
October 01 2013 18:18 GMT
#5543
On October 02 2013 03:18 kitaman27 wrote:
FT, do you still think iamp "must be scum"?

I'd have to do a filter dive again. I'll get back to you on that.
I lie a lot when I'm town. I never lie when I'm scum.
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