TL Mafia LXII: TL Noir - Page 228

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ObviousOne

United States3704 Posts

September 27 2013 00:30 GMT

#4541

"I mean... Well.... If he's the doctor and all I GUESS we can lynch me instead.... Maybe..."

And the Mocsta happened.

Cephiro

Finland1934 Posts

September 27 2013 00:31 GMT

#4542

I'm starting to understand why people feel frustrated in some games when I pressure them. It's fucking annoying to have several townreads tunneling on me nonstop for the worst reasons ever. And then there are people like kush roaming free all over the place.

Anyway, if someone has questions for me, ask now and I'll reply asap. I probably won't be around at the lynch and this may be a last chance to get insight into my actions, reads and opinions.

If there are any non-braindead townies around, that is. Unlike these certain few people that are happily herding a bunch of sheep while most of their reasoning is: "I think he's just lying."

That scumhunting. Irl trust issues with people or something? Fucking annoying I say. Anything I say is just "You're lying scum, I don't give a fuck." to most of the people.

D1 we lynched a blue. D2 the lynch was between two townies and a blue got lynched. This shouldn't happen.

deconduo

Ireland4122 Posts

September 27 2013 00:32 GMT

#4543

On September 27 2013 09:28 iamperfection wrote:
decondu why did you not respond when people were calling you out but the proceed to happen to be around the deadline?

Where were people calling me out? Also I usually wouldn't be around at the deadline (4am my time), insomnia kept me awake last night.

On September 27 2013 09:28 VisceraEyes wrote:

Show nested quote +

I find it negated by the red statement that follows. In a game with unknown quantities of roles, a counterclaim wouldn't really do anything to prove whether LM was lying. Verily, we HAD a counterclaim and...he wasn't lying.

I had the same thought, but I couldn't reconcile it with the request for counterclaims. Am I wrong?

Yeah, maybe you're right. I just can't imagine a scum posting that line completely off the cuff.

ObviousOne

United States3704 Posts

September 27 2013 00:32 GMT

#4544

Maybe Marv is right and we need to lynch Mocsta

VisceraEyes

United States21170 Posts

September 27 2013 00:35 GMT

#4545

On September 27 2013 09:31 Cephiro wrote:
I'm starting to understand why people feel frustrated in some games when I pressure them. It's fucking annoying to have several townreads tunneling on me nonstop for the worst reasons ever. And then there are people like kush roaming free all over the place.

Anyway, if someone has questions for me, ask now and I'll reply asap. I probably won't be around at the lynch and this may be a last chance to get insight into my actions, reads and opinions.

If there are any non-braindead townies around, that is. Unlike these certain few people that are happily herding a bunch of sheep while most of their reasoning is: "I think he's just lying."

That scumhunting. Irl trust issues with people or something? Fucking annoying I say. Anything I say is just "You're lying scum, I don't give a fuck." to most of the people.

D1 we lynched a blue. D2 the lynch was between two townies and a blue got lynched. This shouldn't happen.

To clarify, are you saying that after leaving now, you won't be back for a full 48 hours?

iamperfection

United States9645 Posts

September 27 2013 00:36 GMT

#4546

On September 27 2013 09:32 deconduo wrote:

Show nested quote +

Where were people calling me out? Also I usually wouldn't be around at the deadline (4am my time), insomnia kept me awake last night.

Show nested quote +

Yeah, maybe you're right. I just can't imagine a scum posting that line completely off the cuff.

right after your vote post on cephiro. You reading the thread?

Cephiro

Finland1934 Posts

September 27 2013 00:40 GMT

#4547

On September 27 2013 09:35 VisceraEyes wrote:
D1 we lynched a blue. D2 the lynch was between two townies and a blue got lynched. This shouldn't happen.

To clarify, are you saying that after leaving now, you won't be back for a full 48 hours?[/QUOTE]

Nope. If I'm alive tomorrow, I'll be completely free later in the evening. So in ~18 hours or so.

Mocsta

Australia9388 Posts

September 27 2013 00:40 GMT

#4548

(1)

On September 27 2013 03:28 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:
Looking at cakecheese...

Also

Show nested quote +

Really 1 for 4 in the worst case, with one of the four being a doctor. Even if Ceph gets lynched D3, that's still an extra three kills the mafia gets to send in, up to 3 town deaths, and up to 3 less town votes.

This is really bad. The trade is 1 for 1, because regardless of whether LM or Cephiro flipped, mafia would receive nightkills, and thus, get eliminated from the equation.

Considering how much Sentinel has inputted; that a comment such as the above is his primary concern to make is *very disconcerting*. Especially because its heavily twisted to paint me red... This guy needs to be looked into carefully D4 (D3 should be Cephiro/Stutters depending on vigs)

(2)
I love how Stutters continues to ignore my case. (He knows I dont have town cred at all.. so interesting.. especially as he says he has read the whole thread); and others have endorsed the case as solid. (odd is it not to ignore??)

Then we get this.

On September 27 2013 06:14 Stutters695 wrote:

Show nested quote +

And if Ceph happens to be town, Moc is probably just being his terrible self where he gets crazy ideas.

This guy is completely setting me up to be lynched as soon as Ceph flips red.
There is zero justification given to his conclusions. "probably this is the outcome" but where is the why?
Exactly the type of stuff i wrote about in my stream of consciousness on stutters declaring him scum.

On September 26 2013 16:25 Mocsta wrote:
Stream of consciousness: Stutters695

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=423071&user=Stutters695&view=all

+ Show Spoiler +

First post: Focused on Kush, and others perceptions of Kush. If forced to decide, I will lean town. I think a scum that wants a "weak" player will go on the offensive directly to that player. Stutters decision suggests that he has read the thread, come to the opinion that Kush is scum; and noticed a comment suggesting kush may be town so is querying it. I suppose this is what a suspicious town *should* do; but, its still pretty selfish as an opening post. Why is he avoiding all the other conversation that occured? Overal, leaning town (just)
I really dont his campaign post here; but i dont mind his follow up to DP pressure here. Its pretty confident, and the reasoning is a valid interpretation for early day1 information. Ultimately, scum *could* generate that reasoning; but, I think the way stutters went about it is indicative of recent tl town style.
A few null posts. As either alignment, he needs to follow up; and justify the case with Kush etc.. I would say he reads genuine in conviction though. Guess with Kush, you can fake it. Yeha, stay as null.
Post: This is an interesting reply. As in, as town, I *think* I would respond the same. All I can think is that, as scum, I would try and belittle him for admitting the case is good. So conversely I assume as town I wouldn't do it. As an aside, in my experience, when someone admits the case looks good - its been from town -> kush is town
Post Keeps pushing for Kush. I mena its a good thing he keeps campaigning. But he dosent offer a thought on anything else int he thread. Even when talking about vigs, its to divert back to Kush. I think thats pretty scummy, even if the cause is good in intention.
Post hmm. I'm not sure how much i like the pressure on kush (his only scum read). I mean, hes campaigning for him.. but when pressuring it feels jovial and distanced. I guess you can argue that you dont have to convince your scumread they are scum, but still. I just get an odd feeling that its not serious.
Considering stutters695 writes short paragrpahs in general, i dont see how phone posting should be stopping him interacting either. Anyways...
Chairman I just dont get this. Has been "reading filters" for a timestamp difference of two hours, and his first contribution to the thread is to call out a another weak player. I mean, its not that town cant target two weak players; its that he promised to filter read, and is instead commenting on live person (that is flipped town) and hasn't had any bearing on the thread (yet).. Theres nothing on DP/Geript or VE or FT etc.. i dont like this.
Chairman also made a post stating it was odd stutters called him out like this - specifically the focus of the question. Its wrong My thoughts on reading was "how does chair plan to TRAP scum"... stutters post is "how does chair plan to MAKE LIFE HARD hard for scum". It might sound like a small thing, but it indicates stutters is not looking to identify scum.

considering he has failed to comment on live matters, and this is his second weak player target Im going to give him a scum read so far. I just cant understand the motivation for this query to chairman as town.
Post Says he has caught up; but only comments on chairman. I dont like his wording of "failed to demonstrate why it must come from a scum mindset".. but i wont hold it against him. I just dont like it, cos its a long sentence for a guy that types very little. Feels overcompensated. Will leave as null cos prob nitpicking.
Kush case The entire case is based on not caring about the lynch. Its funny, he debunks kush scum read on stutters (decided to target him pre-game) by stating, he has zero justification.. kinda a weird way to respond, but whatever..
as town: I used to make cases on Kush, but my case style is much different to stutters,so im finding it hard to detect if this is a scum or town case. I think overall, the case is pretty shit and lack lustre. Especially to justify Kush being his sole focus of Day1. I mean, stutters hasnt even commented on anything else other than a semantic from Chairman.. and this is his case? I dont think time is a valid excuse here, but I want to lynch for scum motivation, not poor play. Will treat this as null.
reads Finally, some reads. Lone is another lurker... this guy is got a habit of choosing ppl who dont fight back. What i dont like here is, he commetns on bad play from lone, but doesnt go so far to call him scum... so why make a post around reads if you not going toa conclusion? Then calls chairman scum without any justification? wat the?
Unfortunately, i can see town doing this post, so null.... ggrrr
association FINALLY, Stutters converses on something live in the thread other than kush/lurkers... guess who.. its koshi having a dig at FT.... this is very interesting. If stutters is scum (which is my lean) then FT could be an easy association.
marv pressure ncie question from marv, weird at the time. But now that im suspicious, its useful.
So stutters likes to bus i suppose? Admits his cases are terrible? Knows thread sentiment -> he wont get lynched for stupid shit

Doesnt help me. Accept, if kush is scum.. i need to check how much of a shit kush gave to be pressured by stutters. Did he just brush it off or fight back?
post Interesting question from marv again. based on the whole martyr thing, shouldnt stutters opinino have changed of at least one of lone/chair... stutters response is acceptable if he is known for tunneling. I suspect he is not (he didtn even mention tunneling in his self-description prior); so i think this is bad points for stutters.
post Like i dont get this... he set himself up to vote LM, so thats OK. But the thing with kush, i mean; he wrote a case and was campaigning it.. like, i just would expect him to adapt the case if it wasnt getting traction? Its like he moved onto the next best easy wagon choice.. Im really not a fan of this action.
I completely admit town can drop their cases if there is no traction, but he doesnt even state kush is still his top read. The only reason he dropped the vote is because town didnt think it was a good idea.. Yeah, dont like.
Martyrs by asking for a vig. Kinda weird, cos it acknowledges he is fully aware of his thread position. I actually dunno if town would say this, but feel like if i judge it, im judging poor play vs scummy play. Null
post aa hhhhahhh... this ties in excatly with what iw as saying before. He left kush alone because the thread didnt want a piece of it; admits it. Hes just looking at options. SCUM RIGHT HERE ! (thnx marv)
post STILL avoiding key issues int he thread, and regurgitating the same crap about kush and lonemeow. The reads barely updated as well; and doesnt pressure the reads. He basically throwing out shit on ppls names, and hopes other ppl get the traction on them.. I prob have a read a town game on him; but this is a pretty scummy way to play in general.
Last post sucks too. I wonder now whether Stutters will re-target to Kush?

I got a new scum read. Im a little jaded cos some of it feels like bias against extremely poor play; but theres a few things I just cant fathom originating from a town mindset.

(1) He never comments on live thread matters -> accept a timely delurk to defend FirmTofu.

In fact, the only people he talks about are (Kush, LoneMeow, Chairman) + 1 reference to FT. The 3 in front, are all easy target lurkers; 2 have flipped town.

(2) He never pressures his reads (unless you include that Kush case, which he dropped as soon as it didnt get traction) and when you read his justifications, he doesnt actually explain why its scummy behaviour.. its just poor play

(3) The vig request martyr is really odd as well. Martyrs seems to be the 'in" thing on TL these days, and its not alignment indicative (as in. auto-town).

(4) Can you say this guy is honestly scum hunting? This is beyond poor play, the guy clearly has read the game, and picks/chooses his times to comment. This suggests that there is certainly a motive/agenda behind the posts; yet he doesn't scum hunt.

SCUM RIGHT HERE.

(3)

On September 27 2013 06:55 marvellosity wrote:
How are people feeling about jat right now? And why?

Are we still writing kush off as probable town?

I think Kush is town for same reasons as OO. His filter is identical to smurf + the stutters push (which is obviously association read)

As fro JAT, I liked him all game, even when you gave him a 50/50 read. But I felt this push on me was a touch over done (but he could be butthurt i suppose)

On September 27 2013 00:40 justanothertownie wrote:

Show nested quote +

Did you not read it pre lynch? It is not that big. I seriously don't like that you turned over this lynch onto LM like that without even reading cephiros filter.
Don't tell me you did and the lynch/postlynch stuff is missing. That's not that much either.

My comment about not reading Cephiro filter, was after I said everyone is back to null and im re-reading everyone and doing streams of consciouness.
When the lynch was on, I prefered Cephiro>LoneMeow. My issue was that LoneMeow wasnt preseent, whereas Cephiro was; and LoneMeow didnt vote Cephrio for survival. I commented about all this in the thread. Its not hard to look up..

(4)
Lastly, Yam.

I dont hold it against you, that you want to call me scum. If the roles were reversed I am not sure if I could walk away.
Seriously, if you want to keep calling me scum; at least have the courtesy to go through my filter and mount a case.

All you are doing is taking your interpretation (from memory) of my actions; and slandering me. You have town cred, so some people are instantly buying this.

The fact is: I am town, whether you like it or not.
My expectation is: If you actually read my quotes, you will see consistency and transparency.

You can choose to believe it or not; but I wouldnt do this as scum.
I have done a similar thing in ONE game, where I hammered someone in the last minute; but there were four key differences.
(1) I was GF - which is possible this game
(2) I was town leader - which I am clearly not this game
(3) Both my team mates were modkilled halfway through Day1 - and i felt i needed to take a risk
(4) The guy I hammered, I had been pressuring all day, so the action was consistent.

NONE OF THAT was present this game... it makes no sense as scum trying to play proper scum (which yes, I do prefer over town).

deconduo

Ireland4122 Posts

September 27 2013 00:41 GMT

#4549

On September 27 2013 09:36 iamperfection wrote:

Show nested quote +

right after your vote post on cephiro. You reading the thread?

So by 'people' you mean you and Cheesecake? Neither of you said anything worthy of a response tbh. If you had actually read my post properly you would have had the answers to your questions.

Mocsta

Australia9388 Posts

September 27 2013 00:42 GMT

#4550

Last words in case I am vigged.

if Cephiro is shot as well; go straight to stutters.
if Cephiro is not shot (i.e. only 1 vig and its me dead).. lynch Cephrio, then Stutters

Its impossible for stutters to be town
BUT i can understand prioritizing Cephiro, to gain transparency about the D2 lynch.

VisceraEyes

United States21170 Posts

September 27 2013 00:46 GMT

#4551

Mocsta I'm terribly disappointed in your counterclaim, even if you're scum. It was a bad idea and hurt your team regardless of which side you're on. That's all I'm going to say on the matter. I still think you're super swell.

iamperfection

United States9645 Posts

September 27 2013 00:46 GMT

#4552

On September 27 2013 09:41 deconduo wrote:

Show nested quote +

So by 'people' you mean you and Cheesecake? Neither of you said anything worthy of a response tbh. If you had actually read my post properly you would have had the answers to your questions.

why not participate anyways?

and those posts aren't an adequate reasoning for thinking ceph is scum based solely on that. Like because he doesn't want to role claim he must be scum??? Really?

Mattchew

United States5684 Posts

September 27 2013 01:01 GMT

#4553

posting to click on my filter

s0Lstice

United States1832 Posts

September 27 2013 01:03 GMT

#4554

deadline is in 1 hour roughly. remember to get your night actions in if you haven't

Risen

United States7927 Posts

September 27 2013 01:42 GMT

#4555

Should be clear but if I die and marv doesn't then lynch in this order

1) cephiro
2) mocsta
3) firmtofu

And somewhere find a way to kill marv. Scum can't allow someone that active to be kept alive. He has to much pull in the thread. Mocsta and ft can be switched. Ft can be lynched before ceph, even. Just kill those three asap.

Stutters695

2610 Posts

September 27 2013 01:43 GMT

#4556

Moc; I'll bite:

Iirc: FT was my partner in Titanic, and I didn't need to defend him. Why would I do it now? If we were partners I'd let him roll on his own, or fabricate a confrontation as that is easy for me to do as scum.

2) I feel I explained why it was scummy. I can elaborate if you don't agree, and I think he still deserves to be lynched.

3) I've been sick and haven't cared to play. If I'm going to get Vig'd I'd rather it be n1 than later when my death honestly affects the game.

4) I haven't scum-hunted, I'll be the first to admit it. What "agenda" am I pushing except that I want to live, which I want to do as either alignment because surviving helps town lynch other people and keys me live in the cases I roll scum.

What about that actually makes me scum?

yamato77

11589 Posts

September 27 2013 01:46 GMT

#4557

If you're town, Moc, I will be shocked.

Mocsta

Australia9388 Posts

September 27 2013 01:49 GMT

#4558

On September 27 2013 10:46 yamato77 wrote:
If you're town, Moc, I will be shocked.

Like. U really need to review how u pressure and scum hunt.

How am I even meant to respond to this?

It's just slander yam. I am far from playing a perfect game, but at least I express clearly what my issues with play is. The same can not be said for u. Not once throughout the whole game have u actually explained why I'm scum. Other than he enjoys playing scum... And so what?

Mocsta

Australia9388 Posts

September 27 2013 01:53 GMT

#4559

On September 27 2013 10:43 Stutters695 wrote:
Moc; I'll bite:

Iirc: FT was my partner in Titanic, and I didn't need to defend him. Why would I do it now? If we were partners I'd let him roll on his own, or fabricate a confrontation as that is easy for me to do as scum.

2) I feel I explained why it was scummy. I can elaborate if you don't agree, and I think he still deserves to be lynched.

3) I've been sick and haven't cared to play. If I'm going to get Vig'd I'd rather it be n1 than later when my death honestly affects the game.

4) I haven't scum-hunted, I'll be the first to admit it. What "agenda" am I pushing except that I want to live, which I want to do as either alignment because surviving helps town lynch other people and keys me live in the cases I roll scum.

What about that actually makes me scum?

wifom defense. Great work there.

Elaborate.. that's a first for you this game. Please do.

More wifom.. I have seen sick town ask for replacements. But this is a first. Vig me...

Dodging the crux. Yes both want to live. Your issue is that u keep talking enough to show u r reading and caught up. But then do nothing with it. Classic scum blending. And u were doing it again this cycle

I had to comment three times u ignorded my case to illicit a reaction.. that's bad.
Town might not retort to a case, but they will acknowledge it exists.

U just hopes it died along Sith my town cred

Scum scum scum

geript

10024 Posts

September 27 2013 01:55 GMT

#4560

On September 27 2013 10:42 Risen wrote:
Should be clear but if I die and marv doesn't then lynch in this order

1) cephiro
2) mocsta
3) firmtofu

And somewhere find a way to kill marv. Scum can't allow someone that active to be kept alive. He has to much pull in the thread. Mocsta and ft can be switched. Ft can be lynched before ceph, even. Just kill those three asap.

Wtf. You think Marv is scum and tell us to lynch his scum read? Lynch this motherfucker.

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