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Thaks Oats for making me look into total of 6 games of yours. I only looked at NWM and Bluelightz before that, but that made my case even stronger.
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On August 02 2013 01:52 IMCaptainJackSparrow wrote:1:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 06:27 raynpelikoneet wrote:
The thing with Oats is that if he is town, he calls everyone scum when he sees a scummy post. Then he starts questioning them. Here he is far more conservative about his reads. town!Oats does not have zero scumreads 24h into D1, no fucking way. Also the fact that Oats & Cora are not on each other´s throats makes them both very likely mafia. Those are the two players who tunnel the shit out of people (besides me) and when they get into an argument they will not let go, usually even when they are clearly wrong, because they believe in theirselves. Now they are both just dropping some questions or minor shit on each other and not interacting with each other at all. That´s fucking fishy and that´s not how it goes when at least one of them is town.
2: Yet you still gave me a strong town read on N1. Why did you do that if I had done nothing to accomplish a mafia lynch on D1? 3:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 09:02 Aquanim wrote:
Malongo the Strawberry Ruffian has been pushed off the boat!
1: That´s not an association case. You are both guilty of same thing. Had you tunneled Oats or the other way around i might have a town read on one of you. That´s a thing that makes you both more likely to be mafia, independently.
2: Because i did not know your identity when i posted my reads, and you made sense before that. After that, you have not made sense.
3: Give me some posts where you push Malongo´s lynch really hard, because that lynch would not have happened if XRZ had not claimed. Show me some proof where you really really want to lynch Malongo and push that hard, because i can´t see it. Everyone who voted for Malongo was equally right (besides XRZ), and it´s physically impossible for everyone of them to be town.
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If you say you were right on Malongo, why was i wrong? lol
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Corazon, why is my case on Oats bad?
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On August 02 2013 01:58 Oatsmaster wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2013 01:51 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Oatsmaster is mafia and should be lynched on D3. There is a spot on meta case i just posted. There are also other reasons i have posted before that are not meta.
Lynch Oatsmaster, the mafia dude on D3. He is scum! spot on meta case like?
Yes, your town meta is different from your scum meta.
As i have said before, as town you do this:
call people scum -> vote for your scumread -> ask them questions/tunnel them -> don´t let go
As scum you do this:
ask people questions -> softly call some people scum -> don´t push their lynches
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On August 02 2013 02:04 IMCaptainJackSparrow wrote:1. That's totally an association case. You're shipping us together because we haven't been attacking each other. How is that not an association case? 2. So knowing my identity changed your N1 read on me? So now you are saying the case on me is based on meta? Why do I get different reads for the same post now that you know my identity? The same person has been typing on this account the whole game. 3. + Show Spoiler [Not In Chronological Order] +On August 01 2013 06:29 IMCaptainJackSparrow wrote:Why Malongo is scum and why we need to lynch him:Taking a look at Malongo's filter, it's kind of obvious that his guy is scum. I'll dissect his filter for a bit. His first major analysis post: Show nested quote +On July 28 2013 14:29 Malongo wrote:I really didnt like this post from hzflank: On July 27 2013 21:46 hzflank wrote:
Yes I would lynch a lurker today. However, I dislike beginning the day with the thought of lynching a lurker. I think the best thing on day 1 would be for at least 3 wagons to form before we even thinking about consolidating (or lynching a lurker). If enough cases are made then there is more chance that one of them is a case against scum and the scum team may react to that. It is hard to make a good case against a lurker, so I would prefer cases against active people to be discussed first. The think about starting the day lynching a lurker is to force the players to post and force the mafia to make mistakes. I rather start the day forcing lurkers to post than "looking for 2/3 wagons" earlier. Earlier wagons are more likely to be town (in my experience) and the lurker lynching stays aside. Trying to get early wagons is also a good way to close the fence early wich help the mafia more than the town. His vote so far on Paperscraps is really weak and when I read his filter I found it really reactive (or defensive as he put it). ##Vote: hzflank This vote for hzflank is really poorly reasoned. He reads the first 24 hours of posts and that is all he can come up with? He votes for hz because hz was stating his opinion about LaL-ing and Malongo disagrees with it. If Malongo was really going to attack someone for the reason he attacked hzflank, he should have attacked the people who started the lurker lynching conversation to begin with. All in all, it looks like a forced case and a really bad entry into the thread, considering that it was late and he had a lot more information to work on. Then there is his vote on FT: Show nested quote +On July 28 2013 16:38 Malongo wrote:
Meh I still think hzflank is better lynch but I want to test how this turns out when I wake up. Night.
##Unvote
##Vote FirmTofu. What kind of vote is this? There's absolutely no explanation as to why he wants to vote for FirmTofu. He even admits that hzflank is still his top scumread, so why is he changing his vote to FT? It makes absolutely no sense. This was not even close to the end of D1. It's just an attempt by him to look like he is trying to scumhunt when in fact he isn't. He continues to push an hzflank lynch while his vote is still on FirmTofu (spoilered to condense the post): + Show Spoiler +On July 29 2013 06:44 Malongo wrote:This is hzflank on Paper: Show nested quote +On July 29 2013 00:20 hzflank wrote:The Paperscraps came from a Scum-Tree Paper rejoins the game with a big post that is basically just a list of town reads. He does not provide particularly good reasons for his town reads. This is scummy through and through. I dont care about a list of his town reads, I want to know who he thinks is scum. + Show Spoiler +On July 28 2013 10:24 Paperscraps wrote:I have finally caught up! I wrote down some reads as I was catching up. First off I need to say some stuff about my play early on. I get why people would find me scummy so far, tone and sarcasm are hard to convey in text. This is why I will play a more standard game from now on. It isn't helping people find scum, if they are looking at me for joking and being sarcastic and not understanding that is all it is. hzflank leaning town - The more and more I read hz, the more I begin to like him. Not afraid to be abrasive and stand his ground. exarezee null - The argument of either Tofu or I having to be scum strikes me as odd. I don't see any interactions between FT and I, that would merit this stance. I would like a more in-depth analysis of this pairing. One thing that bugs me about exarezee is that he has reacted in a "noob" fashion to the two early votes on him. With his 100+ games played on the poker forums, which I have no reason to doubt, I just can't see why he would react so defensively. I am probably over thinking my read on exarezee, but I don't see him flipping scum at the moment, due his push on me which holds no substance and his reaction. Oats leaning town - I am really hoping Oats is town, his reads and post so far have been great. His comprehension of what is going on is probably the best so far. Clarity leaning town - Nothing really to elaborate on Clarity so far, I doubt most of the players would disagree. One great interaction I found so far was this. Show nested quote +On July 27 2013 22:47 hzflank wrote:On July 27 2013 22:25 exarezee wrote:
I think paperscraps and firmtofu are a good 1,2 wagon combo for day 1.
I don't think both are scum, but I think its a high chance one of the two are. Really strange initial votes on me by both of them. I don't understand why I had to be voted because I didn't provide a reason for a tone read I made. Paperscrap's vote is even more bewildering because he states he was "joking in all his posts." So, if they were townies making these votes I would have to assume they are trying to see if anybody jumps on my bandwagon and gain some information from it....but then they really quickly unvote. Just really strange town play IMO. Really can't see this being done as a scum/scum combo. It draws a little too much attention. Again, could be town/town, but I think its really likely a scum/town combo here. How is that post in any way more useful to town than to scum? You think that Paper and Tofu should be the two lynch candidates but do not state which of them is most likely to be scum. If they are both town then having them be the primary lynch candidates would be great for scum. If one of them is actually scum then you posting that without saying which one you think is scum is really not useful, as if one of them flips town you are in a position where you should assume that the other is scum, which give you a really easy excuse to vote for them if you are in fact scum. Basically, telling us which single person you want to lynch is good. Telling us that you want the votes to be between two specific people is really bad. Which of them is most likely to be scum? This interaction seems genuine. If either of hzflank or exarezee were scum, I would say the other isn't. CapJackSparrow null - I totally dig his RP gimmick so far and I am biased toward him in a good way. I want to say I lean town on him, but I would hold judgement on his alignment for now. Tofu null - I don't think his push on exarezee is the best. It seems to be grasping. The thing with making cases in general is you can always twist and skew people's filter to whatever you think is right. Initially I leaned town on FT, but after his case I retract that some what. Vayne leaning town - not sure what to think of vayne as of yet, he comes in every so often and drops some knowledge. I think his vote on clarity is pretty bad though. His filter strikes me as town though. Koshi leaning town - Koshi is a odd ball so far. I like that he town reads me, haha. I mostly agree with the lists he has made so far. I am going to read some filters more in-depth and meditate on what I have come up with so far. I don't have a strong scum read at the moment. Also I realize I haven't commented on some people who have posted, the reads above were what stuck out to me most on my initial read through. How can that be mafia if the game had just started? You expect something like a paper on who is mafia based on 10 pages of posts? guy addressed one by one each player and you get angry because he doesnt respond directly to youShow nested quote +I already pointed out a specific thing that I did not like about this, which can be seen in this exchange. I encourage you all to read it from post 493 to 503. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=422720¤tpage=25#493Paper's excuse for the inconstancy was that he did not read properly, but it was not one of those moments where you can tell that he was obviously being truthful. Paper refused to answer any of my questions. How am I possibly supposed to get a town read on him when he does not answer my questions? If Paper were town then he would of answered them as honestly as possible. Also, what does this actually tell us? It's pure fluff in an attempt to pad a post that contains zero useful information for town. This is a lie as proof you can actually find the exchange that he actually answers you directly: Show nested quote +On July 28 2013 18:25 Paperscraps wrote:On July 28 2013 18:03 hzflank wrote:On July 28 2013 10:24 Paperscraps wrote:
hzflank leaning town - The more and more I read hz, the more I begin to like him. Not afraid to be abrasive and stand his ground.
Oats leaning town - I am really hoping Oats is town, his reads and post so far have been great. His comprehension of what is going on is probably the best so far.
Oats' read on me was almost the exact opposite of your read on me. You cannot say that you liked the still liked the reasoning for Oats' read on me because he reasoning was mostly not reading my filter properly and a little philosophical differences. Exactly which Oats reads and posts were great? What do you perceive Oats' 'comprehension of what is going on' to be? Maybe I am missing something, but reading through Oats' filter he doesn't push on you. He doesn't even directly call you scum. I am not sure what you are looking for here. I believe what he has said about you so far is decent. I really don't see how it contradicts my read. Stepping on toes = abrasive. Is your gripe with him calling you defensive? Show nested quote +On July 28 2013 10:24 Paperscraps wrote:
This interaction seems genuine. If either of hzflank or exarezee were scum, I would say the other isn't. Show nested quote +
In general I have no idea how Paper even arrived at the useless town reads in that post because he did not explain them in a townie way.
So actually you are telling that you dont understand Paper so he is not town. See the logic flaw?Show nested quote +In addition, when Paper is pushed and finally gives us a scum read it is this: On July 28 2013 13:32 Paperscraps wrote:On July 28 2013 12:57 IMCaptainJackSparrow wrote:
Also @Paper,
I would like a scumread, if you are still around. You had promised one to me, yet you don't give me one...and everyone calls me untrustworthy... Right now I would lynch Vivax followed by JAT. Vivax's push on Vayne seems like an excuse to just put a vote up. JAT hasn't added anything new to the thread. He has just regurgitated other people's FoSes in his own words. The only good thing JAT has done is nominate Jack for captain,  I would like rayn and Malongo to post more, before I actually made a decision. Also I disagree on your read of Oats, I think he has contributed and I lean town on him. You should read through Vayne's filter, he posts some really good stuff if you look for it. I don't see him flipping scum right now. He gives us a single sentence as to why he wants to lynch Vivax. A single sentence in a game with 400+ posts to use for information. Then he adds a second scum read. He never actually pushes either of these reads at all. Not once does he even direct a post at Vivax or JAT. Well actually his one sentence makes more sense to me than these case. He calls Vivax directly lurker because there was no reason behind his vote.Show nested quote +
Paper later says that he has changed his mind about me and thinks I may be scum. I engage him in conversation (linked above) and he does not even try to push his read on me at all. If Paper actually had a scum read on me then why did that conversation go as it did?
How is that in any ways indicative of mafia? if something he liked your own way to be abrasive. Show nested quote +
How is any of this not scummy? How can people be saying that Paper's filter looks town?
What? most people look at Paper as null towards townie, I dont see anyone calling him town. What I am sure is your post is really forced towards Paper He then suddenly goes back to an hz lynch: Show nested quote +On July 29 2013 07:08 Malongo wrote:On July 29 2013 06:58 hzflank wrote:On July 29 2013 06:55 Koshi wrote:
Why are we ignoring Malongo? Do you want me to fully answer him now? His problem with me stems from philosophical differences regarding lynching lurkers. After that he clutches at straws. He seems to genuinely think that I am scum, though. I never responded to him earlier because until this page he talked about me and not too me, and since I have spent a lot of time replying to people doing that this game there was no town benefit to messing up the thread discussing philosophical differences. Do you want me to fully answer every point that you and Malongo just made? The thing is your case on Paper was conveniently tunneled and wagoned early and nipticked and I found you lying 2 times. A) When you said the guy was not answering you directly. hint: he didB) When you said *how pleople find Paper townie posting. hint: null =/= townieThat and the fact that now we are ending the day with 0 pressure on active lurkers as you wanted with your initial posts. ##Vote hzflank While his vote is finally following his actual suspicions, why did he stray in the first place?And then there is the fakecheck, to which he responds: Show nested quote +On July 30 2013 09:41 Malongo wrote:On July 30 2013 09:21 VayneAuthority wrote:
I have a guilty check on malongo.
awaiting his response! If there is no miller there is no chance in hell you are telling the truth. Vigi on me asap, clear the vigi you and me, im green. The fact that he wants the vigilante to shoot him to see if VA is telling the truth is really scummy. A town player would try to prove that he is town by his posting and his scum hunting. Malongo just goes out and asks for a vigilante hit on him. It's almost as if he was trying to bait out a vigilante shot knowing he was going to get lynched. It would be beneficial for scum because he could get rid of a vigilante shot and narrow the pool of blues down. The ragequit happened but as I said earlier: Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 05:51 IMCaptainJackSparrow wrote:
Also scum can ragequit too...see DrH in Bluelightz mafia. So, in summary:-Malongo's activity levels have been very unsatisfactory and he is trying to blend in -Has not done very much scum-hunting -His hz vote is really weak and he continued to push hz even after he had voted for FirmTofu -Voted for FirmTofu without any explanation and did nothing to push the FT lynch -Initial reaction from VA's fake-check was to draw out a vigilante shot (not totally scummy but there's possible scum motivation) -Ragequits are not 100% town-tells Malongo looks like the best lynch to me, and I hope you all can agree with me. On August 01 2013 05:45 IMCaptainJackSparrow wrote:
Are the Malongo votes for realsies or are people just faking interest in lynching him? I still think he is very likely to flip scum if we lynch him. On July 30 2013 14:32 IMCaptainJackSparrow wrote:
I would be down for a Malongo lynch. He's being scummy as fuck and has not scumhunted at all this game. Also, he still has yet to explain his hipster vote which is ridiculously scummy in a majority lynch voting system.
##Vote: Malongo
On August 01 2013 06:55 IMCaptainJackSparrow wrote:
At least FT is going to defend himself and he will scumhunt on D3. What is Malongo going to do? Nothing. We're going to sit here and think about Malongo's lynch some more because we didn't lynch him today.
Basically if we keep Malongo around, the issue of lynching him is going to stick around every single day until we lynch him. Do you really want to be sitting at D5/6/7 with a complete question mark and a complete crapshoot in Malongo? I definitely would not want to do that.
FirmTofu is going to continue to give us posts that will help us determine his alignment even more accurately. Malongo is going to continue to be a crapshoot. Let's get rid of the mystery earlier and get this town headed in a better and clearer direction.
1: No it´s not. Cora is not tunneling Oats, Cora gets "scum points". Oats is not tunneling Cora, Oats gets "scummy points'. If Cora or Oats was tunneling the other one, they would get "townie points" based on meta, not bopth of them, only the one who would do that.
2: No i am not, i already explained it in my last post. Your identity has nothing to do with my ealrly read on you. The read changed when you started not giving shit about the game, which was after i posted my reads the first time.
3: You are half right on here, i must admit. Although it really rubs me in the wrong way because Malongo is either a lynchbait or the best bussing target ever. He might not have been in scum QT for the whole game, who knows. You also only start pushing him really hard when votes start piling up on FT. We also told you with Clarity how your case did not hold water, i still think it didn´t. Even though you were right or "right", you were right for wrong reasons. Which brings me to another point. Why are you calling me scum now, but not Clarity, who tried to push your lynch on D2 end instead of Malongo´s? Clarity even voted for XRZ instead of Malongo in the first place. Why am i scum and he is not?
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No it still isn´t. Yes it has to do with meta, but it´s not an association case between you & Oats.
Your play drastically changed from "trying to figure things out" -> "not trying to figure things out". I dunno why that is so hard to understand.
lol Cora. I also said Malongo was scum when people were willing to vote for XRZ over him. What´s your point? I know you made a case on him, that does not make you town.
Fair enough, you think i am scum. I don´t give a shit tbh, because i am going to die at last on N3. Because i am going to lynch mafia!Oatsmaster on D3.
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On August 02 2013 02:45 IMCaptainJackSparrow wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2013 02:41 raynpelikoneet wrote:
No it still isn´t. Yes it has to do with meta, but it´s not an association case between you & Oats.
Your play drastically changed from "trying to figure things out" -> "not trying to figure things out". I dunno why that is so hard to understand.
lol Cora. I also said Malongo was scum when people were willing to vote for XRZ over him. What´s your point? I know you made a case on him, that does not make you town.
Fair enough, you think i am scum. I don´t give a shit tbh, because i am going to die at last on N3. Because i am going to lynch mafia!Oatsmaster on D3. I thought I was going to be lynched tomorrow?
Nah, Oats goes first. I´m far more convinced that he´s mafia than that you are.
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Oats why did you answer this:
On August 02 2013 01:11 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Oats, be honest with me here. Did you or did you not understand my case on Ace in NWM N1?
Could you answer it please?
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Can someone who has a town read on FT explain to me why he is town? Other than "towwnslip dude".
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On August 02 2013 03:30 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2013 03:24 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Can someone who has a town read on FT explain to me why he is town? Other than "towwnslip dude". To me he looks town because he looks at everybody and challenges everybody. He attacked XRZ, HZ, Clarity, Vivax. Discusses JAT, Malongo and you. He makes a solid case on XRZ which is an unknown player and sticks to it for a long time. Read page 2 and 3 in his filter. It's all there.
I don´t really know if attacking everybody is a town tell. It´s easy to promote a chaotic atmosphere by attacikng everybody. It´s also easy to look town early on in the game by that way, because you look like you are gaining information.
I don´t think his case on XRZ was solid at all, as somebody else (Vivax if i remember correctly) pointed out too. Actually FT called XRZ out for same stuff he did himself a couple of posts later. If it did make XRZ scum why does he do that too?
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Because scum are more inconsistent, they make mistakes. If you are town and think something is scummy you don´t usually do that. Scum need to find bullshit reasons why townies do scummy stuff, because it´s not really scummy.
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Both of your arguments are fine. guys, do not fight with each other, you are most likely both town. Look elsewhere.
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hz there is no reason to throw shit at people who are town even if you do that in purpose to not get them killed. You are wasting time that can be used for scumhunting,. and scum are already well aware of the situation (ie. XRZ being a cop and so on), you are not helping right now.
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On August 02 2013 05:00 VayneAuthority wrote:
nah exarzee went full retard there. Hz was trying to protect him from dying tonight but he's too dumb to realize it, just like his dumb last second claim
No, it does not achieve anything. Scum already knows if XRZ is a cop or not, if he dies tonight they have a reason to throw shit at HZ, and it´s justified. These games are not won by blues, but a good town atmosphere and scumhunting. These kind of "over phase change shenanigans" are always bad for town.
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also exarezee has a valid point for his behaviour. If he was mafia why not just sit with his vote on Malongo and hope for a no-lynch, as that´s what would most likely happened.
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Also i suggest people look into JAT aswell. The dude pops in with random comments on whatever discussion at times and then fades away. He´s not doing much to help right now.
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On August 02 2013 05:08 justanothertownie wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2013 05:05 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Also i suggest people look into JAT aswell. The dude pops in with random comments on whatever discussion at times and then fades away. He´s not doing much to help right now. So, you want my help? How can I help you? I am of the opinion it is not necessary for me to build all the theories before the night is over and there is more information because I am never going to be the nightkill this time.
It always helps us to know who you think is mafia and who is not. If you are not telling us you might draw a cop check onto you, which is bad if you are town because cops should be checking scum. If you are not afraid of dying because of you being new what´s the harm of sharing your thoughts?
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EPT
