EPT[T] Nuclear Winter Mafia - Page 4
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On July 09 2013 08:41 raynpelikoneet wrote: I'll look him over later in the night. I assume everyone will give the same answer here, that his posting looked townie but he hasn't been around lately and that lessens its townieness. WoS what are your thoughts on MZ? Same to austin. I think people who find him town based solely on the fact that he was silently nuked are assuming things they can't assume. There may be third parties this game, therefore, it's entirely possible the silent nuke is a 3P thing (not telling on MZ's alignment) or it could be a mafia-nuke without him being town. I'M NOT GOING INTO THAT BECAUSE I AM SO TIRED OF ANTI-TOWN ELEMENTS AND ALL THAT JAZZ, but...he is getting town cred from some folks that we can't know yet whether he should receive. If that makes sense. Also, how you gon' go and ask a second question when you won't be specific about tofu. Shame. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On July 09 2013 08:54 raynpelikoneet wrote: Yup, I makee read.Are you even reading the thread? Also i don't care to discuss my townreads. Make a case and i might debunk it. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On July 09 2013 09:00 raynpelikoneet wrote: Not a lot of the pregame.So you have read the whole thread? | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On July 09 2013 09:00 austinmcc wrote: Not a lot of the pregame. Oh right, you're refering to your claim that you shot the nuke. Was trying to figure out what Tofu did that I missed | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On July 09 2013 23:18 raynpelikoneet wrote: (1) I think it's more likely you're town than scumI could and would totally buss and make moves as scum. What i would not do is to create an unnecessary lie if i do not have to. And if i was scum and me or anyone in my team launched that nuke on MZ, i would not claim it, because IT DOESN'T HELP ME AT ALL! There is no reason to. (2) I think whatever you're trying to do is NOT helpful if you're town. You caused some confusion, and I don't see you playing for some kind of townie end goal (a counterclaim isn't happening) But there's been enough said on that topic I'm interested in Senor Tofu I find most of his posting townie. He tries to drum up support for a VA lynch, follows up on discussions with people, and I don't think I've ever seen scum use the phrase "banana-butthole." During the lynch though, his posts stuck out to me and I disliked them. This one still triggers my scumdar. On July 09 2013 06:19 FirmTofu wrote: I don't see how ON's roleclaim is at all alignment indicative. Scum could just as easily have the same role so if his claim changes your opinion of him, I find that very suspicious. That being said, I am not entirely convinced that ON is scum. I wanted to have a wagon that was at least competitive to the Dandel Ion wagon so that we could get some discussion going. I can no longer endorse the lynch on ON and I am going back to my best scumread on VA. I tried lynching suboptimally in my last game and it ended up flipping town. I'm not going to make that mistake again. On July 09 2013 06:31 FirmTofu wrote: Defenses or accusations based on things that haven't happened but MIGHT are things I find scummy. I associate them with knowledge of alignments, because if you're starting from a position of not knowing alignments, you have to try and figure them out by using what has actually happened. You can't consider what might or might not happen. But if you know alignments, you may just be looking for things to justify the reads you're predisposed to have, including using things that haven't happened. I said "IF". I don't think anyone has switched their voted based on his claim yet, so I don't think anyone on the ON wagon is suspicious as of yet. I will look through it later, but for now, I would like to focus on why VA would be a better lynch than ON. On July 09 2013 06:38 FirmTofu wrote: This post also gave me bad feels. Maybe I play scum differently, but I'm not running away from every mislynch, especially when there are like ... 11+ people on a lynch. You're going to get more scrutiny from moving around or moving around with bad reason than you will from just going "Oh case, I sheep, ON scum" and voting once (tell me if you disagree). Assuming that ON is scum and we have scum on that wagon trying to bus him, scum could be using his roleclaim as a reason to back off. I wanted to anticipate this move and prevent it from happening. Assuming that ON is town and we have scum on the wagon, scum would be looking for a reason to get off the wagon so that they wouldn't be associated with it when the flip comes around. This could be used an excuse to do so. At this point, I don't think there are any scum on the ON lynch so my point happens to be a bit irrelevant. Maybe it's the difference in thought here, but ... this whole "I don't think there are any scum on the ON lynch" bit is so odd. If you think 11ish townies are all wanting to lynch the same guy and there is NO scum on the lynch, that indicates to me that the dude is scum. The case was made my be, still voting ON, so here Tofu is saying he thinks a townie made a case on a dude, picked up a bunch of other townie votes, had no scum voters, all of which leads him to the conclusion that the lynch is ... on a townie? I don't get that at all. Rest of filter, townie. But filter around the time of the lynch gets really scummy to me, or, at the very least, I just don't understand what he was thinking. Anyone else draw anything from those posts, especially the second one? | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On July 10 2013 00:19 Oatsmaster wrote: Yeah seems kinda like he has extra info. And just adding JUST IN CASE stuff to look active. scummy man. Why burn your shoot-down on D1? | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
Scum, the people who want town to lose and want townies to die, were supposed to do the following: (1) Shoot a nuke at MZ (2) See you claim their nuke in thread (3) Be confused/afraid On July 10 2013 03:01 raynpelikoneet wrote: This is my plan: I claim that i nuked Meapak to throw mafia off their game. Seriously, think about it. You are mafia and some townie claims a nuke you have launched. Would it throw you off? You need to comment on the matter somehow, as by reading my filter there is an obvious lie, just that you know EXACTLY where the lie is (in "i nuked MZ"). Mafia gets confused. ... What i was looking was behaviour that does not fall into any category i described before. Think about this from mafia pov. You don't know what i am up to. I have obviously fakeclaimed to shot a nuke. I am asking you questions. What am i after? I obviously have some sort of a plan, what do you need to answer? Another behaviour is to straight up say "lol you can't possibly have launched that nuke". That was the plan? The plan is to lie to thread, to either lie about nuking someone or lie about not having nukes, and then to expect mafia, who are again, by the way, the people who want townies dead, to get confused or afraid? I think that if this was actually your plan then...I dunno, respect. It's delightfully ridiculous. But mafia, as noted above, really likes killing townies. And townies really like lynching liars/people who make no sense. Therefore mafia really likes it when townies lie, because that means they can get mislynches. A mafia team that doesn't love making townies really want to lynch townies is...not a winning mafia team. So no, I didn't chime in with how this didn't make any sense, wondering why you'd want chez nuked and nuke MZ. Other people did. I didn't chime in with why would you lie, because other people did. I didn't chime in with why claim the nuke if you're lying mafia, therefore, aren't you some kind of lying town, because other people did. Moreover, I actually find suspicious the people that came out of the woodwork JUST to talk about you and the nuke. Ace has been more or less townie to me, but spending pages and pages arguing with people for little reason actually gives me the impression that he's happy to post and muck up the thread. Jampidampi looks odd for me because he gets involved in very, very little on D1, and now half of his filter is posts about you and your claim. Your claim is easy pickings for mafia to get active, to fill filter either accusing someone of being mafia for lying (ezpz townie thing to do) or fill filter about why your lying doesn't make sense (ezpz thing to do). Right? It's an easy topic of discussion that isn't really scumhunting, isn't really moving things forward. You just give your thoughts, recycle them, argue about them, but the whole thing is meaningless and it's just a great opportunity to LOOK active. Besides the whole lie as town to get somewhere thing, which I think should be used very, very sparingly if at all, I think your conclusions are ... wrong. I disagree that mafia gets confused by this. I think it presents a strong opportunity for scum to get active in the thread. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On July 10 2013 04:04 raynpelikoneet wrote: That's why at no point did I say it's bad. I even believe it's useful as town, but only very, very sparingly, and the more people that lie, the more often they lie, the less useful it is.Lying is not necessarily bad. I lie more as town than i do as mafia. I don't care about the whole lying thing. What I care about is the conclusions you draw. You think that mafia should be confused/afraid of your claim, when I believe that mafia would love the opportunity to jump on someone who has lied in thread, call them out, call for their lynch. You think that mafia would avoid discussing your claim, when I think that it's fertile grounds for mafia to get active about something. "Why did rayn lie/is rayn lying/is rayn scum/what is going on" is just another topic to talk about that isn't QUITE scumhunting. It's slightly closer to scumhunting than setup talk, balance talk, and that jazz, but it's still fluff discussion that doesn't really get towards finding a scumteam. You had some motivation to do what you did, you had some post you were waiting to reveal, until that point it's all kind of useless chatter that just serves to make people APPEAR useful. Again, the reaction that I would find scummy is not the people who do nothing with your claim, but people who fill their filter with nothing except talk about your claim (jampidampi) or people who jump on you as scummy despite doing little other scumhunting (haven't gone back to look at this) or ... Ace, because he knows better and generally stays out of threads. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
You discombobulated the thread. Scum love discombobulated threads, and prolonging discombobulation. Therefore, people who didn't discombobulate aren't more likely to be scum than before (IMO), and people who reveled in the discombobulation are. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
This thread is large. There are lots of posts. But assuming we don't blow goats, this game will come down to your ability to read people in the thread and the thread's ability to read you (you = anyone who isn't super duper involved). Active townies will get NKed. Active scum will hopefully slip up. Some other scum/town will become apparent because of voting/roles/whatever. But then we will hit lategame and will have a few people that town couldn't read well enough to really lynch, and scum didn't find threatening enough to NK. The more you can contribute to the thread, even in weird sideways ways, the better people can read you as we approach that point and the better lategame townies will be able to read lategame folks. Please don't want until endgame to get involved or try and read the thread. You simply won't be able to. Please find some odd way to get involved now. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On July 10 2013 04:40 strongandbig wrote: Also Austin regarding your stuff this page about how scum would want to jump on a liar for lying and get a townie lynched, the thing is that the scum can't attack the lying townie for lying because the only way they would know he was lying is because they are scum, that argument absolutely doesn't work. No. He said "I have no nukes, someone nuke Chez" and then "I nuked MZ." The lie isn't that he says he nuked MZ when he probably didn't, the lie is connecting his statements about wanting chez nuked towards the start of D1 for nuking xatalos with his later claiming a nuke and using it on MZ. It's a lie that everyone could see, because the posts in the thread were entirely incompatible. One sec on VA. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On July 10 2013 04:41 Alakaslam wrote: Mainly lurkers, and we've also had a couple "Oh wow, this thread moves too quickly" posts. If the same clump of people are the only active/posting folks, then it makes for a much more difficult endgame than we should be planning for.+ Show Spoiler + On July 10 2013 04:30 austinmcc wrote: TO THOSE WHO ARE UNINVOLVED/HAVING TROUBLE KEEPING UP, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE DO THE FOLLOWING:
This thread is large. There are lots of posts. But assuming we don't blow goats, this game will come down to your ability to read people in the thread and the thread's ability to read you (you = anyone who isn't super duper involved). Active townies will get NKed. Active scum will hopefully slip up. Some other scum/town will become apparent because of voting/roles/whatever. But then we will hit lategame and will have a few people that town couldn't read well enough to really lynch, and scum didn't find threatening enough to NK. The more you can contribute to the thread, even in weird sideways ways, the better people can read you as we approach that point and the better lategame townies will be able to read lategame folks. Please don't want until endgame to get involved or try and read the thread. You simply won't be able to. Please find some odd way to get involved now. You are talking to lurkers or everyone? I can follow the thread from my phone. But yes it's a big one! | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On July 10 2013 04:42 strongandbig wrote: Austin what do you think about vayne, if you're town I want to know your read and of you're scum I want to be able to do connection analysis On July 07 2013 09:26 VayneAuthority wrote: It's probably a bad idea to do the fake nukes as it narrows down for scum who actually has a nuke when your fake nuke doesn't work. At least that's my opinion, which is probably wrong. Like this post, and it's a good touchstone if he ever flips scum. If he's scum, it indicates that any scum with nukes have to set them off in thread. On July 07 2013 09:48 VayneAuthority wrote: I'll take a raincheck on that then. I have commented on everything I found interesting so far so I guess I should close the thread now as I'm just spamming at this point. Very playful start, but some of it, like this post, reads as OVERLY playful. Small scum points. On July 08 2013 05:24 VayneAuthority wrote: ON doesn't seem like scum to me, he seems like some one that's gonna die tonight. His play reeks of PR power. Bursting with opinions but hes trying to seem like he's useless or something. That or 3rd party. Random chime-in when ... rayn asked someone else about ON. This is at a point early on where nobody was really actively discussing ON except rayn occasionally mentioning him. Sticks out as kind of out of place. On July 08 2013 11:57 VayneAuthority wrote: Ok interesting. So apparently chezinu is saying his role gives him like a hot potato nuke that keeps bouncing around that you have to send at some one else? That's a pretty interesting mechanic and I really doubt he is scum now after giving us some content. People should consolidate on Dandel or Onegu if they dont like my johnny lynch. Don't like this post. Someone, I think FirmTofu actually, also pointed it out. Generic comment on chez's claim, which VA believes but misinterprets, and VA doubts Chez is scum because chez made some claim. Bad reason to change your mind on chez (He claimed to have to shoot it off D1, not within the first tiny window, and VA says nothing about chez's reasons for nuking, which are more important than just shooting). This is, imo, a really bad reason to find Chez townie, not thought through, and looks explicitly bad. Slightly curiously, left his vote on JW for a looooooooong time. Never really followed up on JW, calls it his lynch in the above post, but really hasn't written anything about JW in forever and doesn't push him at all, despite saying things like On July 09 2013 03:41 VayneAuthority wrote: After all, it's not in either of our interests to try to convince the other that they are scum; rather efforts should be made to convince others. On July 09 2013 04:49 VayneAuthority wrote: i.e. Town's job is to convince people of their scumreads and to hop on their lynches, yet VA never pushes JW as a lynch/scumread once the day gets rolling.your job is to convince others I am scum, why do you want me to respond 0o I read it and it's all fine and dandy but you just don't know my playstyle. It's fine. Verdict - dem posts be scummy. Problem - He seems to want to/be fine with lynching DI, and one of the main features of FirmTofu's filters is him going after VA. The first half of my problems are solved by DI apparently being bus-happy (was that a DI post from a QT or was that someone else who wanted him teammates to bus him and then he might also bus back?). My read on FirmTofu is just wonky based on those two posts I dislike, but I don't love that he is scummy on VA who is scummy on a dude who is scummy. However, that can all be solved out later, and relies on flips and links, but the straight of it is that VA's posts are scummy to me, especially his asking everyone else to make cases on him/push him/convince folks, yet him never doing that himself. The finding Chez townie thing is ... not as explicitly scummy, but I don't love it. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On July 10 2013 00:13 austinmcc wrote: I'm interested in Senor Tofu I find most of his posting townie. He tries to drum up support for a VA lynch, follows up on discussions with people, and I don't think I've ever seen scum use the phrase "banana-butthole." During the lynch though, his posts stuck out to me and I disliked them. This one still triggers my scumdar. Defenses or accusations based on things that haven't happened but MIGHT are things I find scummy. I associate them with knowledge of alignments, because if you're starting from a position of not knowing alignments, you have to try and figure them out by using what has actually happened. You can't consider what might or might not happen. But if you know alignments, you may just be looking for things to justify the reads you're predisposed to have, including using things that haven't happened. This post also gave me bad feels. Maybe I play scum differently, but I'm not running away from every mislynch, especially when there are like ... 11+ people on a lynch. You're going to get more scrutiny from moving around or moving around with bad reason than you will from just going "Oh case, I sheep, ON scum" and voting once (tell me if you disagree). Maybe it's the difference in thought here, but ... this whole "I don't think there are any scum on the ON lynch" bit is so odd. If you think 11ish townies are all wanting to lynch the same guy and there is NO scum on the lynch, that indicates to me that the dude is scum. The case was made my be, still voting ON, so here Tofu is saying he thinks a townie made a case on a dude, picked up a bunch of other townie votes, had no scum voters, all of which leads him to the conclusion that the lynch is ... on a townie? I don't get that at all. Rest of filter, townie. But filter around the time of the lynch gets really scummy to me, or, at the very least, I just don't understand what he was thinking. Anyone else draw anything from those posts, especially the second one? | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On July 10 2013 05:13 Dandel Ion wrote: Working in the name of justice isn't actually all that busy. Also, "justice" is usually just "prison sucks and I'd like out."Sorry guys I'm currently busy in the name of justice. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On July 10 2013 05:19 Xatalos wrote: Can we chat about 3)? I agree - except about jampidampi. 1) It's not scummy to make a simple mistake like that (what would be the scum motive for that?) 2) His posts about your claim seemed to make sense otherwise 3) I looked through his filter earlier today and didn't find him scummy in any way, so I find him relatively townish for reasons outside of this incident The one worrying thing about him is his excessive focus on your claim. It would indeed be an easy topic for scum to appear active and contributive (without actually scumhunting). Probably worth it to keep an eye on him, but definitely not to lynch him (at least at this point). I'm interested in your finding his filter townie and why dat be, or whether you have other "reasons outside of this incident." To me, his filter IS dominated by excessive focus on the claim, and so overall I don't love the filter. Is there something in particular during the early posts that pops out to you as town? Or just his general posting on rayn. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On July 10 2013 05:40 Xatalos wrote: Okay, maybe I overestimated jampidampi's townishness. Must be because I read it after reading through the filters of players like MajuGarzett, Abenson etc. damn scummy lurkers. Anything looks good compared to that. I'd put jampidampi as null rather than townish atm. His only actually noticeable contribution to the thread so far has been that analysis of rayn's claim, which is fine, but as his ONLY real contribution... not so much. Scum could do that just as easily as town. In fact, scum might prefer to do something like that instead of scumhunting. Awwww, you better actually be town. + Show Spoiler + On July 10 2013 04:02 austinmcc wrote: Moreover, I actually find suspicious the people that came out of the woodwork JUST to talk about you and the nuke. Ace has been more or less townie to me, but spending pages and pages arguing with people for little reason actually gives me the impression that he's happy to post and muck up the thread. Jampidampi looks odd for me because he gets involved in very, very little on D1, and now half of his filter is posts about you and your claim. Your claim is easy pickings for mafia to get active, to fill filter either accusing someone of being mafia for lying (ezpz townie thing to do) or fill filter about why your lying doesn't make sense (ezpz thing to do). Right? It's an easy topic of discussion that isn't really scumhunting, isn't really moving things forward. You just give your thoughts, recycle them, argue about them, but the whole thing is meaningless and it's just a great opportunity to LOOK active. | ||
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