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On July 12 2013 07:38 WaveofShadow wrote:
People seem to forget something.
The people on the DI lynch are far from clear.
Vayne should know this, but a scum Dandel ACTIVELY encourages people to bus him.
I can link proof from Les scum QT if you wish.
I think the best bet for scum bussing Dandel is SnB. What do you think?
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@Alakaslam
What do you think of Onegu, now that the flips happened the way they did? Do you think he is less likely to be town-aligned?
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austinmcc can you please post a couple of games where you were scum?
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On July 12 2013 08:01 FirmTofu wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2013 07:38 WaveofShadow wrote:
People seem to forget something.
The people on the DI lynch are far from clear.
Vayne should know this, but a scum Dandel ACTIVELY encourages people to bus him.
I can link proof from Les scum QT if you wish. I think the best bet for scum bussing Dandel is SnB. What do you think?
I think I have a lot of reading to do, and I don't know when I'm going to get to do it.
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On July 12 2013 08:12 Z-BosoN wrote:
austinmcc can you please post a couple of games where you were scum? Replaced into Chrono Trigger
Rolled scum in Aperture 2, Personality 2, PTP 4
Them's all my scum games. Of particular note is the lack of Nuclear Winter on that list.
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Xatalos, are you still there? I'd like to talk to you about Alakaslam, specifically about his role.
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man this game is so frustrating for me right now
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On July 12 2013 08:51 geript wrote:
man this game is so frustrating for me right now
Help me out. View SnB/austin interaction and see what you think of it
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On July 12 2013 08:58 Z-BosoN wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2013 08:51 geript wrote:
man this game is so frustrating for me right now Help me out. View SnB/austin interaction and see what you think of it
Did you have a specific interaction you were looking at?
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Maju, Ace, FT, Austin. Not sure on if any others.
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I read the shit again tonight but honestly right now I'm just fed up with this.
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On July 12 2013 09:14 geript wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2013 08:58 Z-BosoN wrote:On July 12 2013 08:51 geript wrote:
man this game is so frustrating for me right now Help me out. View SnB/austin interaction and see what you think of it Did you have a specific interaction you were looking at?
yea, snb asks austin about VA. austin agrees with snb. Snb still mentions he wants to lynch austin.
Kinda weird imo
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Z-BosoN's Digest
A shitfest of crap
All right, I'll take this time to go over some things that I feel are important.
First of all, I want to apologize for playing like shit. I was a bit busy the last few days and am a bit drowned by the amount of stuff I have to read here, so I was mostly posting lazily, going with gut feelings instead of actually doing any sort of analysis. I seek to correct that.
Secondly, I am completely unsatisfied with my reads. I feel like they are all shitty and wrong. My scumreads don't really make sense. This is just a vague outline of some of the players that I have notes on atm. I decided to post this anyways in the name of discussion.
Even though I hate this fucking text to my core, I hope you guys read it still.
First of all, let me establish who I'm confident is town:
Xatalos - duh
Oatsmaster - I find it hard for him to claim and save MZ, being scum. Seems chill in his posts.
[Uon]Sentinel - Unless it's some ploy to nuke your afk buddy to gain towncred, I'm considering him town for now.
People who I think may be townie, but not too sure:
FirmTofu - Seems to be trying to figure things out. Despite being wrong, made a fair case on jampidampi. Not worrying about him too much.
Onegu - his posts feel genuine. He posted somewhere that he "knows that Xatalos is 100% town". This is pretty scary for a beginner in mafia to post, I think.
WaveOfShadow - He claimed, but I dunno. His activity level kinda dropped later on once people started laying off of him, but some of his posts seem really genuine as well. Should be left alone for now I think.
johnnywup - Originally I thought him scummy, but after rereading his filter, his posts feel pretty genuine. Also, at one point, he posted "someone claim please" at a timing that would just feel awkward for scum. I dunno. Intuition and general feeling aside, judging from his contributions and his general posts, I would totally view him as scum, however, he has done very little in terms of scumhunting. Who knows.
Alakaslam - He picks on me to better the quality of my posting, yet his own quality of posting is crap. He is very irreverent and useless in his posts. However much I don't like his play, he doesn't seem as scummy as I thought earlier, upon rereading his filter. Ugh, again, my brain wants to paint him black.
And now a more shady region, where I have as null:
Geript - Right now I have him as either town or a pretty good scum. As I was catching up to the thread and making my notes, he seemed to strike on some details in certain posts that were very fair. He started the game with a strong presence, looking quite townie. Later on, however, his play dived into a much weaker version of the initial geript.
The post he made right after day1 lynches caught my attention
On July 09 2013 12:49 geript wrote:
If that's your case, then do you think I'm scum. From what I recall I was one of the first, the first in fact I think, to call the DI lynch a mislynch by the vote look. I also was quick to jump onto ON and then quick to jump off. From what I remember, I was the only one talking about the claim (and being too odd to be scum). I'm just not seeing how your points make Rayn scum but me not scum.
This pretty much screams defense to me, and I view this post as pretty unnatural. Just like eminem in 8-mile, he's dissing himself so people won't use that against him later on. This has been amplified now that we know that Dandel was in fact scum.
Another thing that annoyed me is him shooting down jampidampi nuke. So unnatural.. and I didn't find his explanation the least bit reasonable. Nevertheless, the townie thing to do would be to verify if people agreed with the nuke and whatnot, but ended up saving us a lynch.
The change of attitude towards his lynch choice vs. the lynch choice of others in day two was pretty different from that same thing in day one. While in day one he thought DL was a mislynch, and tried as hard as he could to sway votes away from DL, in day two he decided to go to jampi fairly easily, not putting muhc of a fight.
However, his activity is fairly high and shooting the nuke down just like that is calling attention to himself as scum. So yea, townie, or good scum. I don't want to lynch him tomorrow, so let him be for now. Don't even know why I decided to share my feelings here.
austinmcc: Had a fairly bad start, and there are some things in his filter that would still make me suspicious like hell. I could go on about some of that, but his general activity seems to have me disinterested, for now. Rayne had a good point on him, though:
In July Something, at 12:00, a wise man once said:
Look at pages 71 -> where i claim. What does Austin do? Avoids the whole claiming thing!! He is happy to ask me about anything else and happy to answer questions about anything else but no, he does not talk aboutthe obvious contradiction in my behaviour. I even try to prod him into discussing it by saying "Are you even reading the thread?", but no, he won't. The obvious answer is that he is uncomfortable talking about something he knows more than he should and he knows i know more than what's been said in thread. I can't find any reason why you would not try to figure out why someone is lying as town. Look at Austin now. NOW he's ready to talk about my motives. rofl.
EDIT: now that I see that austin has high activity levels as scum as well, this prompts me to paint him red as well. More on him later I guess.
Ace: Spends a ton of time speculating. Most of his activity is rather useless and he doesn't seem to try to take a dominant spot amongst town. He loves to talk about peoples plans, and how this play and that play is stupid or not (here I refer to Rayne's play and Geript's play).
However, one thing in a scum-ace scenario kind of troubles me. Ace spent a bucketfuck of time discussing and arguing how rayne's plan was necessarily scum-favored and that he was scum because of it, etc. This seems like a tedious thing to pursue if you are scum, like seriously. Normally I'd paint him green because of it, but I've heard that his scum-play is pretty good, so I'll keep him here in this mosh pit.
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I decided to go at length on these three players because I want to see if people agree with my say on them or not. I wanna still puzzle myself on the rest of the players to see if I can find anything else of value. The rest of the peoples I didn't add also go in this region.
And now, towards my current shitlist.
VayneAuthority - this post immediately put him on my watch-list:
On July 08 2013 02:06 VayneAuthority wrote:
Even if johnny does flip town, there's been a lot of decent discussion on it so it gives us a bit to work with as a day 1 lynch.
Given how easy the bandwagon was, I would look at the people defending him for absolutely zero reason if he flips town. Scum tryin' to get dat town cred.
On the same token we can also analyze the people that are saying one thing and lynching john on the other once the flip occurs.
If he flips scum, then there's not much to say. Rayn is probably town if he flips scum for being just about the only person to defend him.
This seems to be a pointless post that ponders the different scenarios and draws no real conclusion from it.
The main argument I have against him is how he claims he was "pretty confident" that rayne was town. Vayne mentioend afterwards that rayne does that type of shit as town. Here is his post after rayne's flip:
On July 10 2013 07:09 VayneAuthority wrote:Show nested quote +On July 10 2013 07:08 Xatalos wrote:
Two kills? So scum got a Vigi or something? I dearly hope that one of those wasn't a town kill....
I'm really surprised by rayn though since he was getting a lot of flak tonight. And especially that I live still. Well, it's a relief I guess. He was pretty clearly town after all he did the first day. Since roulette I have become much better at understanding his motives. We just have to decide if these dudes were right with their conspiracy theory or if scum is just trying to throw us off
Now, as we can easily deduce, Vayne was pretty damn confident that rayn was town. As you all remember, there was a huge shitfest discussing whether or not the rayn nuke claim made him scum or not. Now, I ask you, as a townie who feels strongly about a dude you've played with being townie, what do you do?
a) Defend him. Explain how this is something a town rayn would totally do (VA gave me this explanation later on).
b) Shove off the discussion expressing how you are fed up with it.
The difference is subtle, but if you look at the three posts VA made during the whole discussion:
On July 09 2013 11:53 VayneAuthority wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2013 07:08 VayneAuthority wrote:
dandel, gumshoe, ghost, onegu.... I think rayn is town he just messed up. I thought ON might be scum too but wasn't sure enough of it to vote for that those are the 4 im looking at heavily after the voting. All 3 of them gave absolutely zero reason to flip onto ON last second
On July 09 2013 22:18 VayneAuthority wrote:
We should probably give this rayn thing a rest for a bit as its killing discussion before the night post. People that have a chance to die should really throw out some reads/cases before they are gone.
I really need people's opinions on these three men, as I think they are all scum.
gumshoe, ghost, onegu
They don't have time to post anything meaningful in the thread but are able to show up last second and ninjavote for ON? Especially gumshoe who I know is much more capable than this.
On July 10 2013 04:15 VayneAuthority wrote:
I cant believe how long this rayn thing has gone on. If I didn't know better its just scum talking to each other and completely shutting down all discussion but that is not the correct answer.
Here you see a different, incompatible story. From the three posts above, he thinks rayn is town, and wants to stop the discussion because it is clogging up the thread. Not because he thinks rayn is town or whatever. He doesn't even mention that rayn normally does that type of stuff as town.
Please read the interaction which starts here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=418049¤tpage=116#2312
And let me know what you think (right now I'm not sure if I'm nitpicking or if I stumbled upon the holy grail of finding Vayne scum)
Next guy I want to point out is Kosh. Not much to say on him, but he comes into the thread fairly well, with a list describing some of the players and not really drawing too many conclusions. He complains the thread is slowing down:
On July 11 2013 23:48 Koshi wrote:
This thread is slowing down now. I thought/hoped I would get some more direction before the end of the day.
So my scum vote would be FirmTofu. My inactive vote goes out to Stutters and Z-bosoN if he doesn’t deliver.
But I am willing to vote for MajuGarzett if it is him vs VayneAuthority, because VayneAuthority seems upright. I don’t understand why people focus him so much. Maju is just pretty afkish and is now shooting his nuke to please Town, too bad nobody really discussed his target. But yeah, who is going to save a 48 hours afk guy?
I am going to travel home and see if people contest my logic, if not I am just going to do like I planned 2 hours before deadline.
Letting us know that he likes action and shit. Goes on to describe some more of the players, putting his scum vote on tofu. He makes a rather weak case against tofu that's entirely based on the fact that tofu didn't approve VA getting shot down. Ok, he might be on to something, I still have to review tofu, but he doesn't seem to push his reads at all. Makes a weak non-committing statement:
...But I am willing to wait on FirmTofu till the nuke falls. I am just putting my ideas out there for the moment.
When town is active on the maju vs jampi debate (thread = sped up), he makes spectator-like comments regarding the game, instead of jumping in on the discussion:
On July 12 2013 06:06 Koshi wrote:
hahaha. I love this.
You guys should check out the TL+ mafia game one day. It was so bad compared to this one.
I wanted to change my vote to jampi but now that he posted I am reluctant to do so.
At least MajuG gave us a nuke to play with when he left. I thought jampi was just going to leave butthurt like XigXag.
But now I don't know again -_-*
On July 12 2013 06:17 Koshi wrote:
Is anybody going to drop a knowledge nuke soon? I think I am going to stay till the host does his Night post. I want to know how this ends :D.
I dunno, I kinda feel he's scum.
Anyways, give thoughts if you will.
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Awesome, Z-BosoN decided to contribute. I agree with you on Koshi, but am going to have to disagree on Vayne for now. I reserve the right to change that opinion.
You've been talking a lot about Austin and SnB. Could you give your thoughts on exactly you are concerned about with SnB please? Where would you place him on your reads?
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On July 12 2013 09:52 FirmTofu wrote:
Awesome, Z-BosoN decided to contribute. I agree with you on Koshi, but am going to have to disagree on Vayne for now. I reserve the right to change that opinion.
You've been talking a lot about Austin and SnB. Could you give your thoughts on exactly you are concerned about with SnB please? Where would you place him on your reads?
I didn't put him in cause I have to go over him carefully. He's much more relaxed this game than I remember him, but isn't particularly helpful and I remember I felt his "thoughts on the rayne claim " be totally out of place.
His claim also felt very out of place, especially given that he's avoided all the major discussions so far (like Ace pointed out). It feels like he is pretty lazy this game, but I'll have to check carefully to see if it's mafia-oriented or not, right now I've had enough of mafia.
Anyways, what do you disagree on VA? You seemed to think him scum earlier... what changed your mind?
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On July 12 2013 10:01 Z-BosoN wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2013 09:52 FirmTofu wrote:
Awesome, Z-BosoN decided to contribute. I agree with you on Koshi, but am going to have to disagree on Vayne for now. I reserve the right to change that opinion.
You've been talking a lot about Austin and SnB. Could you give your thoughts on exactly you are concerned about with SnB please? Where would you place him on your reads? I didn't put him in cause I have to go over him carefully. He's much more relaxed this game than I remember him, but isn't particularly helpful and I remember I felt his "thoughts on the rayne claim " be totally out of place. His claim also felt very out of place, especially given that he's avoided all the major discussions so far (like Ace pointed out). It feels like he is pretty lazy this game, but I'll have to check carefully to see if it's mafia-oriented or not, right now I've had enough of mafia. Anyways, what do you disagree on VA? You seemed to think him scum earlier... what changed your mind?
About VA, I'm not convinced one way or the other. His voting patterns don't really make sense from a scum perspective. His play this game has been scummy, but I'm not sure I can label him as scum with the information I have at hand. If I recall correctly, he voted for Dandel as well.
Like I said, I reserve the right to change this opinion.
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Tofu sorry about delay. Had to meet with my boss...
Onegu is more likely to be town by association due to the flip by like 2% but yes.
"Irreverent"... Hehehe I post  at ppl all the time 
But yeah, it's for lack of knowing what to do.
I'll try to get better, I just struggle and struggle with knowing what to do.
I have a much easier time making townreads than scumreads. But the Scumreads are more important.
Here is my opinion on who is town fwiw, in no particular order:
Ace Geript WoS tofu Onegu zboson Chezinu Xatalos Oatsmaster uonseintenal strongandbig CaucasianAsian and maybe Austin.
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Discussing townreads at night feels counterintuitive. Alakaslam, who do you think might be scum? Anyone who is not on that list?
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On July 12 2013 11:28 Alakaslam wrote:Tofu sorry about delay. Had to meet with my boss... Onegu is more likely to be town by association due to the flip by like 2% but yes. "Irreverent"... Hehehe I post at ppl all the time But yeah, it's for lack of knowing what to do. I'll try to get better, I just struggle and struggle with knowing what to do. I have a much easier time making townreads than scumreads. But the Scumreads are more important. Here is my opinion on who is town fwiw, in no particular order: Ace Geript WoS tofu Onegu zboson Chezinu Xatalos Oatsmaster uonseintenal strongandbig CaucasianAsian and maybe Austin.
Don't worry Alakaslam, you are playing well.
I have a few questions for you.
Why do you place me on your town read list? The flips should incriminate me, not exonerate me. You found me scummy during Day 2, so why don't you still find me scummy?
Why is Onegu more likely to be town by association? He voted both ON and jampi who both flipped town. Can you explain why you see Onegu as more town?
I'm curious as to why Xatalos is not on your list. Did you simply forget to include him or do you see him as scum?
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EPT
