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On June 26 2013 13:37 Hurricane Sponge wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2013 01:09 Alakaslam wrote:
I WANT firm to show up as town, I am super nervous about mislynching! But I need to make a case it seems, and this is what I got because frankly I don't see any great cases yet.
##Vote: FirmTofu
Hint time. Reading comprehension is a huge part of this game. We need to be very careful about correcting significant typos like this.
Oh shit. Rofl
Scum wants to lynch town, and I said I want tofu to be town ish (which he did) but I ACTUALLY cast my vote on him!
+ Show Spoiler +
Dude I will read my filter, 10-1 this was when I had failed at work after a 22 hour day.
I can't even explain this.
Uhh......
Yeah.
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On June 26 2013 13:33 Alakaslam wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2013 13:18 Hurricane Sponge wrote:On June 26 2013 13:08 Alakaslam wrote:On June 26 2013 12:29 Hurricane Sponge wrote:On June 25 2013 01:09 Alakaslam wrote:
Voting is requested! I will bandwagon out of bitterness until I see a really good defense. Not so much against the bbcode error (that would be hypocritical) but against... Baseless lurker accusations at the start of day 1!
See how I roll? Am I going to make those accusations? Maybe (I'm kind of doing just that) but in this case, it's because he already has a vote, and I am thinking of helping a bandwagon.
I WANT firm to show up as town, I am super nervous about mislynching! But I need to make a case it seems, and this is what I got because frankly I don't see any great cases yet.
##Vote: FirmTofu
Out because work
@AlakaslamI also need you to tell me what is wrong with this post. (Class, don't help him.) For starters direct disobedience to what I posted in the spoiler at the bottom of the post you quoted for my homework. Is also selfish, sarcastic, paranoid, a knee-jerk reaction, and contradictory to ideas I had raised earlier an have since. And I posted out of raw emotion. More coming on homework, going to avoid spamming! Btw. Yes, I know. You are a prophet sir.  If that's all you found wrong with that quote, we have a problem. I need you to read it extremely carefully. There is a very specific answer I'm looking for, and it will be very obvious when you find it. Nonchalance toward lynching someone on no case? Man, I am at a loss but don't tell me. Reading Onegu's filter just gave me the chills. Kind of should but I'm not going to defend because homework, and trying to understand the above. I will say Onegu has been antagonizing me since early on and so if he flips red a lot of my confusion will lift. I took him for correcting errors, thanked him and apologized immediately following this, and he is then attacking the errors. I took it as town play because he was fixing errors but how manipulative a scum you can find must be beyond me. Main thin I'm learning so far is do not disregard the general guide thread. Or read it and forget.
I was trying to help you at first but then the things I helped you with you didnt incorparate it into your play makeing feel scum from you.
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On June 26 2013 13:44 Aquanim wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2013 13:31 Hurricane Sponge wrote:On June 26 2013 13:28 Aquanim wrote:On June 26 2013 12:50 FirmTofu wrote:On June 26 2013 12:43 Chromatically wrote:
Interestingly enough, it's very much not impossible that none of the scum were voting for Xzav.
I'd still recommend a vigi shot in Stim. I disagree. vigi should shoot the target most likely to flip scum, and that is most definitely Onegu at this point. P.S. I wouldn't mind Spicy either *wink wink* I think that a hypothetical Vigilante should probably NOT shoot tonight for the following reasons: 1) Statistically speaking, the vigilante is unlikely to die between now and the next night phase. They could get shot by scum, but they're unlikely to be lynched (since they can claim Vigilante). I expect that by night 2 our reads will be a lot stronger and a vigilante will be able to shoot scum with much higher confidence. 2) If the vigilante does shoot tonight and shoots a townie, then (after a scum NK) there will be 8 players remaining in the game, and probably 3 of them will be anti-town. This will be a MYLO situation on day 2 - that is, if we mislynch again, we almost certainly lose right away (barring lucky night actions), and even if we lynch scum we're faced with the same situation again. While obviously the goal is to lynch scum every day, I'd prefer not to have to lynch 3 scum in a row or instantly lose... Don't get me wrong, if StiMaDDict were to go mysteriously missing in the night I wouldn't grieve much, he's been bloody useless so far. However, I think it's worth waiting the extra day to be sure that he (or whoever else is being considered for a Vig shot) is actually scum, since the consequences of shooting a townie are so dire. Spicy, on the other hand, would be a poor vigilante shot IMO - he's posted enough that we would get more out of discussing lynching him than simply shooting him. This post made me really sad. I have to completely disagree with you. There's been a lot of content, and every townie worth their salt has to have at least a couple names on their Scum List. The longer he waits to take the shot, the longer something can go wrong (NK, mislynch, etc.). I hate seeing you come out on the wrong end on two policy discussions, considering the first one got you nearly lynched and I was leaning toward believing you to be town. Sure, I have a couple of names on my scumlist, but I'm not willing to bet the farm on any of them just yet. Like I said, a Vigilante is unlikely to be mislynched since he can claim, and the odds of him being shot are relatively low. A Vigilante is likely to be alive in the next night phase, and being able to take a shot when there is more information to decide a target is a good thing. Also, a successful Vigilante shot at this point does not increase the number of mislynches before scum win. An unsuccessful Vigilante shot DOES decrease the number of mislynches before scum win. The town has a lot to lose through an unsuccessful Vigilante shot, and not as much to gain as might otherwise be the case. Obviously shooting scum is good, but a missed shot would be catastrophic. Perhaps instead of thinking I'm scum because I have a different opinion on Mafia theory to you, you should seriously consider my arguments?
Whoa there. I never said I thought you were scum. Look at my filter, I never went after you because of differences of opinion on policy. (That feels like a pretty scum move to me personally; blowing something small and ultimately constructive way out of proportion.) Hopefully you'll return the favor and not attack me for thinking you're wrong on this point.
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EBWOP: And I would be willing to take the shot at one of my reads in particular if I were the Vigilante tonight. But that's either a difference in confidence, or just my personality to want to make 'Big Plays'.
Your math is sound, and if the vig is not confident, he should not shoot. But if you've got the read, climb the ladder, kid. Make yourself famous.
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On June 26 2013 13:50 Hurricane Sponge wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2013 13:44 Aquanim wrote:On June 26 2013 13:31 Hurricane Sponge wrote:On June 26 2013 13:28 Aquanim wrote:On June 26 2013 12:50 FirmTofu wrote:On June 26 2013 12:43 Chromatically wrote:
Interestingly enough, it's very much not impossible that none of the scum were voting for Xzav.
I'd still recommend a vigi shot in Stim. I disagree. vigi should shoot the target most likely to flip scum, and that is most definitely Onegu at this point. P.S. I wouldn't mind Spicy either *wink wink* I think that a hypothetical Vigilante should probably NOT shoot tonight for the following reasons: 1) Statistically speaking, the vigilante is unlikely to die between now and the next night phase. They could get shot by scum, but they're unlikely to be lynched (since they can claim Vigilante). I expect that by night 2 our reads will be a lot stronger and a vigilante will be able to shoot scum with much higher confidence. 2) If the vigilante does shoot tonight and shoots a townie, then (after a scum NK) there will be 8 players remaining in the game, and probably 3 of them will be anti-town. This will be a MYLO situation on day 2 - that is, if we mislynch again, we almost certainly lose right away (barring lucky night actions), and even if we lynch scum we're faced with the same situation again. While obviously the goal is to lynch scum every day, I'd prefer not to have to lynch 3 scum in a row or instantly lose... Don't get me wrong, if StiMaDDict were to go mysteriously missing in the night I wouldn't grieve much, he's been bloody useless so far. However, I think it's worth waiting the extra day to be sure that he (or whoever else is being considered for a Vig shot) is actually scum, since the consequences of shooting a townie are so dire. Spicy, on the other hand, would be a poor vigilante shot IMO - he's posted enough that we would get more out of discussing lynching him than simply shooting him. This post made me really sad. I have to completely disagree with you. There's been a lot of content, and every townie worth their salt has to have at least a couple names on their Scum List. The longer he waits to take the shot, the longer something can go wrong (NK, mislynch, etc.). I hate seeing you come out on the wrong end on two policy discussions, considering the first one got you nearly lynched and I was leaning toward believing you to be town. Sure, I have a couple of names on my scumlist, but I'm not willing to bet the farm on any of them just yet. Like I said, a Vigilante is unlikely to be mislynched since he can claim, and the odds of him being shot are relatively low. A Vigilante is likely to be alive in the next night phase, and being able to take a shot when there is more information to decide a target is a good thing. Also, a successful Vigilante shot at this point does not increase the number of mislynches before scum win. An unsuccessful Vigilante shot DOES decrease the number of mislynches before scum win. The town has a lot to lose through an unsuccessful Vigilante shot, and not as much to gain as might otherwise be the case. Obviously shooting scum is good, but a missed shot would be catastrophic. Perhaps instead of thinking I'm scum because I have a different opinion on Mafia theory to you, you should seriously consider my arguments? Whoa there. I never said I thought you were scum. Look at my filter, I never went after you because of differences of opinion on policy. (That feels like a pretty scum move to me personally; blowing something small and ultimately constructive way out of proportion.) Hopefully you'll return the favor and not attack me for thinking you're wrong on this point.
Your reply here doesn't really affect my read of you, I just wanted to blow that out of the water before I had to spend another page of filter arguing with people about it :/
Do you see what I'm getting at about the Vigilante, though?
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On June 26 2013 13:52 Hurricane Sponge wrote:
EBWOP: And I would be willing to take the shot at one of my reads in particular if I were the Vigilante tonight. But that's either a difference in confidence, or just my personality to want to make 'Big Plays'.
Your math is sound, and if the vig is not confident, he should not shoot. But if you've got the read, climb the ladder, kid. Make yourself famous.
EBWOP: I guess I just got ninja-d. I'm satisfied with that answer, even if I don't 100% agree with your point of view.
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On June 26 2013 13:37 Aquanim wrote:
Returning to our regularly scheduled broadcast of "anything other than blue roles":
I played a large role in lynching a townie Day 1 and I acnowledge that some of you probably suspect me because of this. I believed he was the most likely player in the game to flip red, and I explained clearly why I believed that. If you suspect that I am scum, I suggest you read my filter and ask yourself two questions:
1) Does this person believe in the arguments they are presenting?
2) Is this person afraid of getting attention and being scrutinised?
(These questions could profitably be applied to a read through the filter of any player in a game of Mafia, hence the third person. In fact, I would suggest that you do apply these questions to any of your reads.)
If you have any questions I'm happy to answer them. I don't plan on posting anything huge until the night-action deadline (one hour before the daypost) since the next move is mostly scum's and I don't see anything to be gained by showing my reads before then.
In general, I'd love to see less defense and more offense. (Easy for me to say when I'm obviously feeling much safer than you.) I'm going to be very excited to see your big pre-deadline post. Please don't waste it just defending yourself.
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On June 26 2013 13:46 Onegu wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2013 13:33 Alakaslam wrote:On June 26 2013 13:18 Hurricane Sponge wrote:On June 26 2013 13:08 Alakaslam wrote:On June 26 2013 12:29 Hurricane Sponge wrote:On June 25 2013 01:09 Alakaslam wrote:
Voting is requested! I will bandwagon out of bitterness until I see a really good defense. Not so much against the bbcode error (that would be hypocritical) but against... Baseless lurker accusations at the start of day 1!
See how I roll? Am I going to make those accusations? Maybe (I'm kind of doing just that) but in this case, it's because he already has a vote, and I am thinking of helping a bandwagon.
I WANT firm to show up as town, I am super nervous about mislynching! But I need to make a case it seems, and this is what I got because frankly I don't see any great cases yet.
##Vote: FirmTofu
Out because work
@AlakaslamI also need you to tell me what is wrong with this post. (Class, don't help him.) For starters direct disobedience to what I posted in the spoiler at the bottom of the post you quoted for my homework. Is also selfish, sarcastic, paranoid, a knee-jerk reaction, and contradictory to ideas I had raised earlier an have since. And I posted out of raw emotion. More coming on homework, going to avoid spamming! Btw. Yes, I know. You are a prophet sir. If that's all you found wrong with that quote, we have a problem. I need you to read it extremely carefully. There is a very specific answer I'm looking for, and it will be very obvious when you find it. Nonchalance toward lynching someone on no case? Man, I am at a loss but don't tell me. Reading Onegu's filter just gave me the chills. Kind of should but I'm not going to defend because homework, and trying to understand the above. I will say Onegu has been antagonizing me since early on and so if he flips red a lot of my confusion will lift. I took him for correcting errors, thanked him and apologized immediately following this, and he is then attacking the errors. I took it as town play because he was fixing errors but how manipulative a scum you can find must be beyond me. Main thin I'm learning so far is do not disregard the general guide thread. Or read it and forget. I was trying to help you at first but then the things I helped you with you didnt incorparate it into your play makeing feel scum from you.
I know. That is why I sheeped after you. I saw my error after error, figured you were (comparatively) a vet and that a mafia would not have been correcting me and you were the only one who was. Then by that time I was drawing suspicion. When the attacks made so much sense that I was my own scum read the paradox blew my mind- So I gave up, and decided to make myself useful the only way I knew how while under duress ( all memory of coaching, skimming the guide, grade school, etc gone)
Couldn't sheep your vote against me though :p
And the paranoia spiral went nuts with a vicious cycle of becoming my own stronger and stronger scum read and I went 100% cuckoo and our coaches/obs facepalmed repeatedly.
Must work on homework! Will still check this now and then.
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I'd also like to have a conversation with Spicy whenever he logs on. If we can reconcile his issues with me, we may be able to get him back on track, hunting for scum. Even if I remain his primary scum read, I'd like to hear his secondary scum reads in case he is NK'd tonight.
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I don't agree with this:
On June 26 2013 13:37 Aquanim wrote:
I played a large role in lynching a townie Day 1 and I acnowledge that some of you probably suspect me because of this. I believed he was the most likely player in the game to flip red, and I explained clearly why I believed that. If you suspect that I am scum, I suggest you read my filter and ask yourself two questions:
Your vote on Xz is a complete null read. A town Aqua would have been correct to vote on the other wagon when you did (on day one where you could not possibly of had a night-action read on anyone).
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On June 26 2013 12:24 Hurricane Sponge wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2013 12:15 Alakaslam wrote:On June 26 2013 11:51 Hurricane Sponge wrote:
Both of the confirmed townies (see: dead) have stated support for Xzavier and suspicion of Aqua. Spicy also briefly mentioned that he was "not convinced on the aqua vote either and ill post my thoughts on that later", and was the most visible supporter of Xzavier. However, either I can't find those thoughts, or he never got the follow-up out because it was the opener to his Case against yours truly.
@Spicy
Do you feel like elaborating on your thoughts about Aqua now, or are they no longer relevant / valid? O.O Can I do nothing right. Now I see how scummy ^^ looks (I mean my post.) Feh! What am I worried about. My Lynch would give town a lot of confusion though. Not good. I get a strong feeling Mafia are actually pretty active this game, kind of puppetmastering and doing a good job of it. They've got me so far XD No case for the above? Well, it's because of my general feeling based on the whole thread. A lot of people accusing with weak cases or, like me, just avoiding accusing because they're worried their case will be weak (which is in itself scummy in a way- that worry). You know? Really, I'm just very new and very wishy washy. Feel free to ask me stuff, I'll see it on my spare time and I'll try to answer. A lot of stuff I've done I have done to try to be a sideline resource to town. I haven't the best of skill at reading people anywhere, but one thing I can do is tell the truth and navigate TL. So ask me, try to entrap me and make me guilty worse than I am. I need some Town confirmation if I'm going to be useful, and that is the only way I can think of to confirm myself town. Otherwise, please just lynch me. + Show Spoiler + "After all, you just lynched two townies with me. I'm CONFIRMED red, aren't I? So I'd be one less KP when gone" If everyone thinks I'm scum, I'm just dead-weight because nobody believes me. So even scumreads from me become spam, and useless fluff. Has anyone actually considered the motivation behind my filter? I know why I look scummy, heck you guys convinced me (lol). So, I ask you. How do I fix that? What is at my disposal to help town? I thought towniness was any effort to aid town, not YOU MUST SCUMREAD THAT IS ONLY AID TO TOWN AND NO SHEEPING BRO, IF YOU DON'T KNOW HOW TO USE YOUR VOTE AT ANY GIVEN TIME BECAUSE YOU ARE CONCERNED ABOUT + Show Spoiler + what I just did with most of us. mind you, because trying to read scum less carefully... . If that is actually true, then expect me to suck in the future. I will be a quick lynch. + Show Spoiler +http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=301748 I haven't followed this because I got nutzy after people said I was lurking. Like on page 11. "You don’t have to be a super-active poster to prove your innocence or be useful to the town." WELL AREN'T I A CLASS-A EXAMPLE OF THAT TRUTH. Rather, I have been disobeying "Don’t babble. If you speak without having a clear goal in mind, you impede the town and decrease everyone else’s productivity. This paralyzes town analysis and decision-making and allows mafia to hide in the chaos." Not sure why you quoted me, but I just went through your whole filter. On a scale of Scum-to-Townie, I'd put you as a solid 'Potato'. I tried following your train of thought, and it damn near gave me a headache. If you can post thoughts in a much more concise manner from here on out, I'd consider it a personal favor. You seem to be asking for homework, so I will give you some: You associated yourself early with Onegu, even declaring that you would donate your vote to him to use as he pleased. What are your thoughts on him at this moment in light of his attitude toward how the the Day 1 lynch was shaping up late in the day? (Go read his filter. You do not have to respond in the next 10 seconds.)
Waitaminute I just sort I did this in reply to him.
Pah! Make your cases for a minute I swear I don't know if Onegu is scum or not, FirmTofu (who I DO think is town, he granted my wish) says Onegu scum slipped but I think it relies on me being scum and I know better. But iPhone, that is why i didn't see the error in my own post.
Tofu what page did you elaborate on?
Medic, I really hope you exist. You should know who to protect right now. If you think I'm asking for guard you are daft, but I assume you know who needs it.
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On June 26 2013 13:21 Onegu wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2013 12:52 FirmTofu wrote:On June 26 2013 12:44 Onegu wrote:On June 26 2013 12:11 FirmTofu wrote:
Alright, we got the bad end of the deal with that flip, but we can still make the best of it.
Scenario 1: Scum initiated or hopped on the lynch on Xzavier early on in the game. This would mean that LoneMeow/Chromatically/Aquanim are all potential scum.
How likely is this scenario?
Earlier on in the game, we had Chromatically and Aquanim go at it with a full-on slug fest. Although hzflank had a theory that both could be scum, it remains to be seen that that is the case. HOWEVER, this is still a possibility because mafia have their QT chat available during the day and coordinate in that way.
Of the three, I would think that LoneMeow is the most likely to be scum because all he did was initiate the bandwagon that led to the demise of town and contributed little of substance.
Scenario 2: Scum did not initiate or hop on the lynch on Xzavier.
Q. How would these scum react when they see a bandwagon forming on a townie?
A. They would probably try to dissociate themselves from the bandwagon unless it was unlikely that the lynch would go through. Because the lynch was likely to go through, they would behave in the aforementioned way.
Okay great! Let's make a list of the players they weren't associated with the bandwagon for the majority of the game.
Note: I am including people that jumped on the bandwagon when it was inevitable.
1) hzflank
2) Onegu
3) Spicydinosaur
4) StiMaDDict
5) Alakaslam
6) Hurricane Sponge
Of these people, hzflank and Hurricane Sponge are playing extremely pro-town by constantly talking about the game. This should not eliminate them from the running; however, we can temporarily narrow down the list.
1) Onegu
2) Spicydinosaur
3) StiMaDDict
4) Alakaslam
Onegu:
Onegu votes for Aqua, then a few posts later votes for Alakaslam. Most importantly, he declares his apathy toward the lynch of Aquanim vs Xzavier!
The Case Against Onegu: Onegu is [re]scum and Aquanim and Xzavier are both town. Therefore, Onegu is apathetic towards the lynch. He knows both will flip town, so he immediately dissociates himself with that lynch and votes Alakaslam who will not get lynched that day.
I will go into further detail about my other reads, but first, I would like to get some opinions about my analysis.
Wow like I told you guys before I slept if xzavier is lynched it will give us a ton of information, and yes now I will be leading the aquanim bandwagon as I felt he was scum and his vote and case on him before makes me feel he is the scummiest. Also makeing the claim I dont care brings way to much heat on me if I am scum when I can just put my vote back on aqua saying I should be on a bandwagon. You still aren't addressing your scum tell. Come back when you actually read my post please. My vote isnt a scum tell and neither is my apathy toward who get lynched, jeez think about it, me doing what I did is something only town would do, scum wouldnt do it because of all the backlash if scum really didnt care they would put thier vote on on of the two bandwagons and not say much as to why they voted(1). I gave you reasons for my vote and reasons why I was ok with both of them being lynched, none of that is a scumtell(2). The fact xzavier flipped town we should be looking at people who piled on to his bandwagon they would want to ensure the lynch of the person with the most votes so there isnt a last minute swich onto one of the scum. [/red]
(1)Town wouldn't do it either because it is a scum-tell so the bolded point is invalid.
(2) Your vote was contradictory to your statements. It was a scumtell, you can't deny that.
You are simply saying "I'm right and you're wrong" and that really isn't much of a defense. You should be saying "I made a mistake and I meant to say..."
You are digging yourself deeper into a hole that you won't be able to crawl out of at this point.
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@Hurricane:
If you were a Vig, and the game rules were that you must take your shot on night 1, who would you shoot?
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On June 26 2013 12:11 FirmTofu wrote:
Alright, we got the bad end of the deal with that flip, but we can still make the best of it.
Scenario 1: Scum initiated or hopped on the lynch on Xzavier early on in the game. This would mean that LoneMeow/Chromatically/Aquanim are all potential scum.
How likely is this scenario?
Earlier on in the game, we had Chromatically and Aquanim go at it with a full-on slug fest. Although hzflank had a theory that both could be scum, it remains to be seen that that is the case. HOWEVER, this is still a possibility because mafia have their QT chat available during the day and coordinate in that way.
Of the three, I would think that LoneMeow is the most likely to be scum because all he did was initiate the bandwagon that led to the demise of town and contributed little of substance.
Scenario 2: Scum did not initiate or hop on the lynch on Xzavier.
Q. How would these scum react when they see a bandwagon forming on a townie?
A. They would probably try to dissociate themselves from the bandwagon unless it was unlikely that the lynch would go through. Because the lynch was likely to go through, they would behave in the aforementioned way.
Okay great! Let's make a list of the players they weren't associated with the bandwagon for the majority of the game.
Note: I am including people that jumped on the bandwagon when it was inevitable.
1) hzflank
2) Onegu
3) Spicydinosaur
4) StiMaDDict
5) Alakaslam
6) Hurricane Sponge
Of these people, hzflank and Hurricane Sponge are playing extremely pro-town by constantly talking about the game. This should not eliminate them from the running; however, we can temporarily narrow down the list.
1) Onegu
2) Spicydinosaur
3) StiMaDDict
4) Alakaslam
Onegu:
Onegu votes for Aqua, then a few posts later votes for Alakaslam. Most importantly, he declares his apathy toward the lynch of Aquanim vs Xzavier!
The Case Against Onegu: Onegu is [re]scum and Aquanim and Xzavier are both town. Therefore, Onegu is apathetic towards the lynch. He knows both will flip town, so he immediately dissociates himself with that lynch and votes Alakaslam who will not get lynched that day.
I will go into further detail about my other reads, but first, I would like to get some opinions about my analysis.
[/red]
Nvm, page 32. Huh. But... Then is your read on me not 100% scum?
Or do you mean that he would bus or just knew I would not be lynched? I SWORE I'd be lynched because I was a total fail, and I largely felt the case against Xzavier was a rust bucket until I read Aquanim's filter.
Hindsight is perfect, how did Onegu know at that time I would not be lynched?
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EBWOP:
@Hurricane
Correction to that question:
If you had to Vig kill someone tonight, but all players looked equally scummy, who would you shoot?
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On June 26 2013 14:10 Alakaslam wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2013 12:24 Hurricane Sponge wrote:On June 26 2013 12:15 Alakaslam wrote:On June 26 2013 11:51 Hurricane Sponge wrote:
Both of the confirmed townies (see: dead) have stated support for Xzavier and suspicion of Aqua. Spicy also briefly mentioned that he was "not convinced on the aqua vote either and ill post my thoughts on that later", and was the most visible supporter of Xzavier. However, either I can't find those thoughts, or he never got the follow-up out because it was the opener to his Case against yours truly.
@Spicy
Do you feel like elaborating on your thoughts about Aqua now, or are they no longer relevant / valid? O.O Can I do nothing right. Now I see how scummy ^^ looks (I mean my post.) Feh! What am I worried about. My Lynch would give town a lot of confusion though. Not good. I get a strong feeling Mafia are actually pretty active this game, kind of puppetmastering and doing a good job of it. They've got me so far XD No case for the above? Well, it's because of my general feeling based on the whole thread. A lot of people accusing with weak cases or, like me, just avoiding accusing because they're worried their case will be weak (which is in itself scummy in a way- that worry). You know? Really, I'm just very new and very wishy washy. Feel free to ask me stuff, I'll see it on my spare time and I'll try to answer. A lot of stuff I've done I have done to try to be a sideline resource to town. I haven't the best of skill at reading people anywhere, but one thing I can do is tell the truth and navigate TL. So ask me, try to entrap me and make me guilty worse than I am. I need some Town confirmation if I'm going to be useful, and that is the only way I can think of to confirm myself town. Otherwise, please just lynch me. + Show Spoiler + "After all, you just lynched two townies with me. I'm CONFIRMED red, aren't I? So I'd be one less KP when gone" If everyone thinks I'm scum, I'm just dead-weight because nobody believes me. So even scumreads from me become spam, and useless fluff. Has anyone actually considered the motivation behind my filter? I know why I look scummy, heck you guys convinced me (lol). So, I ask you. How do I fix that? What is at my disposal to help town? I thought towniness was any effort to aid town, not YOU MUST SCUMREAD THAT IS ONLY AID TO TOWN AND NO SHEEPING BRO, IF YOU DON'T KNOW HOW TO USE YOUR VOTE AT ANY GIVEN TIME BECAUSE YOU ARE CONCERNED ABOUT + Show Spoiler + what I just did with most of us. mind you, because trying to read scum less carefully... . If that is actually true, then expect me to suck in the future. I will be a quick lynch. + Show Spoiler +http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=301748 I haven't followed this because I got nutzy after people said I was lurking. Like on page 11. "You don’t have to be a super-active poster to prove your innocence or be useful to the town." WELL AREN'T I A CLASS-A EXAMPLE OF THAT TRUTH. Rather, I have been disobeying "Don’t babble. If you speak without having a clear goal in mind, you impede the town and decrease everyone else’s productivity. This paralyzes town analysis and decision-making and allows mafia to hide in the chaos." Not sure why you quoted me, but I just went through your whole filter. On a scale of Scum-to-Townie, I'd put you as a solid 'Potato'. I tried following your train of thought, and it damn near gave me a headache. If you can post thoughts in a much more concise manner from here on out, I'd consider it a personal favor. You seem to be asking for homework, so I will give you some: You associated yourself early with Onegu, even declaring that you would donate your vote to him to use as he pleased. What are your thoughts on him at this moment in light of his attitude toward how the the Day 1 lynch was shaping up late in the day? (Go read his filter. You do not have to respond in the next 10 seconds.) Waitaminute I just sort I did this in reply to him. Pah! Make your cases for a minute I swear I don't know if Onegu is scum or not, FirmTofu (who I DO think is town, he granted my wish) says Onegu scum slipped but I think it relies on me being scum and I know better. But iPhone, that is why i didn't see the error in my own post. Tofu what page did you elaborate on? Medic, I really hope you exist. You should know who to protect right now. If you think I'm asking for guard you are daft, but I assume you know who needs it.
It doesn't rely on you being scum at all. You flipping mafia is somewhat reliant on Onegu flipping mafia, however.
I believe my case against Onegu is 2 pages ago.
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On June 26 2013 14:16 hzflank wrote:
@Hurricane:
If you were a Vig, and the game rules were that you must take your shot on night 1, who would you shoot?
Make your own decisions don't soft claim 
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On June 26 2013 14:18 Alakaslam wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2013 12:11 FirmTofu wrote:
Alright, we got the bad end of the deal with that flip, but we can still make the best of it.
Scenario 1: Scum initiated or hopped on the lynch on Xzavier early on in the game. This would mean that LoneMeow/Chromatically/Aquanim are all potential scum.
How likely is this scenario?
Earlier on in the game, we had Chromatically and Aquanim go at it with a full-on slug fest. Although hzflank had a theory that both could be scum, it remains to be seen that that is the case. HOWEVER, this is still a possibility because mafia have their QT chat available during the day and coordinate in that way.
Of the three, I would think that LoneMeow is the most likely to be scum because all he did was initiate the bandwagon that led to the demise of town and contributed little of substance.
Scenario 2: Scum did not initiate or hop on the lynch on Xzavier.
Q. How would these scum react when they see a bandwagon forming on a townie?
A. They would probably try to dissociate themselves from the bandwagon unless it was unlikely that the lynch would go through. Because the lynch was likely to go through, they would behave in the aforementioned way.
Okay great! Let's make a list of the players they weren't associated with the bandwagon for the majority of the game.
Note: I am including people that jumped on the bandwagon when it was inevitable.
1) hzflank
2) Onegu
3) Spicydinosaur
4) StiMaDDict
5) Alakaslam
6) Hurricane Sponge
Of these people, hzflank and Hurricane Sponge are playing extremely pro-town by constantly talking about the game. This should not eliminate them from the running; however, we can temporarily narrow down the list.
1) Onegu
2) Spicydinosaur
3) StiMaDDict
4) Alakaslam
Onegu:
Onegu votes for Aqua, then a few posts later votes for Alakaslam. Most importantly, he declares his apathy toward the lynch of Aquanim vs Xzavier!
The Case Against Onegu: Onegu is [re]scum and Aquanim and Xzavier are both town. Therefore, Onegu is apathetic towards the lynch. He knows both will flip town, so he immediately dissociates himself with that lynch and votes Alakaslam who will not get lynched that day.
I will go into further detail about my other reads, but first, I would like to get some opinions about my analysis.
Nvm, page 32. Huh. But... Then is your read on me not 100% scum? Or do you mean that he would bus or just knew I would not be lynched? I SWORE I'd be lynched because I was a total fail, and I largely felt the case against Xzavier was a rust bucket until I read Aquanim's filter. Hindsight is perfect, how did Onegu know at that time I would not be lynched? [/red]
He was the only vote on you.
He was the first person to make a case against you.
His case was pathetic.
There were already 2 bandwagons going on against 2 people decision was which one of the two would be lynched.
He definitely knew that you wouldn't get lynched...
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On June 26 2013 14:19 hzflank wrote:
EBWOP:
@Hurricane
Correction to that question:
If you had to Vig kill someone tonight, but all players looked equally scummy, who would you shoot?
This is WIFOM hell. If I pick a target, say 'StiM' and that target is actually town, the mafia will let me shoot away and bury my team. If I pick a target, say 'hzflank' and that target is mafia, the mafia can roleblock me tonight and send a Goon to kill me.
I refuse to answer this question on the grounds that you look SUPER DUPER like scum right now, unless you're actually the Vig.
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On June 26 2013 14:20 FirmTofu wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2013 14:10 Alakaslam wrote:On June 26 2013 12:24 Hurricane Sponge wrote:On June 26 2013 12:15 Alakaslam wrote:On June 26 2013 11:51 Hurricane Sponge wrote:
Both of the confirmed townies (see: dead) have stated support for Xzavier and suspicion of Aqua. Spicy also briefly mentioned that he was "not convinced on the aqua vote either and ill post my thoughts on that later", and was the most visible supporter of Xzavier. However, either I can't find those thoughts, or he never got the follow-up out because it was the opener to his Case against yours truly.
@Spicy
Do you feel like elaborating on your thoughts about Aqua now, or are they no longer relevant / valid? O.O Can I do nothing right. Now I see how scummy ^^ looks (I mean my post.) Feh! What am I worried about. My Lynch would give town a lot of confusion though. Not good. I get a strong feeling Mafia are actually pretty active this game, kind of puppetmastering and doing a good job of it. They've got me so far XD No case for the above? Well, it's because of my general feeling based on the whole thread. A lot of people accusing with weak cases or, like me, just avoiding accusing because they're worried their case will be weak (which is in itself scummy in a way- that worry). You know? Really, I'm just very new and very wishy washy. Feel free to ask me stuff, I'll see it on my spare time and I'll try to answer. A lot of stuff I've done I have done to try to be a sideline resource to town. I haven't the best of skill at reading people anywhere, but one thing I can do is tell the truth and navigate TL. So ask me, try to entrap me and make me guilty worse than I am. I need some Town confirmation if I'm going to be useful, and that is the only way I can think of to confirm myself town. Otherwise, please just lynch me. + Show Spoiler + "After all, you just lynched two townies with me. I'm CONFIRMED red, aren't I? So I'd be one less KP when gone" If everyone thinks I'm scum, I'm just dead-weight because nobody believes me. So even scumreads from me become spam, and useless fluff. Has anyone actually considered the motivation behind my filter? I know why I look scummy, heck you guys convinced me (lol). So, I ask you. How do I fix that? What is at my disposal to help town? I thought towniness was any effort to aid town, not YOU MUST SCUMREAD THAT IS ONLY AID TO TOWN AND NO SHEEPING BRO, IF YOU DON'T KNOW HOW TO USE YOUR VOTE AT ANY GIVEN TIME BECAUSE YOU ARE CONCERNED ABOUT + Show Spoiler + what I just did with most of us. mind you, because trying to read scum less carefully... . If that is actually true, then expect me to suck in the future. I will be a quick lynch. + Show Spoiler +http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=301748 I haven't followed this because I got nutzy after people said I was lurking. Like on page 11. "You don’t have to be a super-active poster to prove your innocence or be useful to the town." WELL AREN'T I A CLASS-A EXAMPLE OF THAT TRUTH. Rather, I have been disobeying "Don’t babble. If you speak without having a clear goal in mind, you impede the town and decrease everyone else’s productivity. This paralyzes town analysis and decision-making and allows mafia to hide in the chaos." Not sure why you quoted me, but I just went through your whole filter. On a scale of Scum-to-Townie, I'd put you as a solid 'Potato'. I tried following your train of thought, and it damn near gave me a headache. If you can post thoughts in a much more concise manner from here on out, I'd consider it a personal favor. You seem to be asking for homework, so I will give you some: You associated yourself early with Onegu, even declaring that you would donate your vote to him to use as he pleased. What are your thoughts on him at this moment in light of his attitude toward how the the Day 1 lynch was shaping up late in the day? (Go read his filter. You do not have to respond in the next 10 seconds.) Waitaminute I just sort I did this in reply to him. Pah! Make your cases for a minute I swear I don't know if Onegu is scum or not, FirmTofu (who I DO think is town, he granted my wish) says Onegu scum slipped but I think it relies on me being scum and I know better. But iPhone, that is why i didn't see the error in my own post. Tofu what page did you elaborate on? Medic, I really hope you exist. You should know who to protect right now. If you think I'm asking for guard you are daft, but I assume you know who needs it. It doesn't rely on you being scum at all. You flipping mafia is somewhat reliant on Onegu flipping mafia, however. I believe my case against Onegu is 2 pages ago.
Then my only questions are: why did he help me early on, and how did he know at the time I wouldn't be lynched?
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EPT
