Newbie Mini Mafia XLIII - Page 13

On June 24 2013 16:09 FirmTofu wrote:
I know Aquanim wanted me to comment on Chromatically, but I would rather address his suggestion to have the NN roleclaim.

Let's have a look at how a roleclaim would play out for scum and town separately so it is easier to visualize.

Event: NN roleclaims
Scum Information Set: Know who the NN is with a rather high degree of certainty
Town Information Set: Could be an NN or could be scum faking NN. Learn absolutely nothing.

Just based on the information that each side gains, we can see that scum takes a clear lead instantaneously. They will choose to avoid the NN if they have a Tracker and can proceed to eliminate one person from the long list of priority targets.

Town remains confused as to the NN's alignment and ends up in a shitty situation.

If you can find a way to resolve this issue, Aquanim, I would love to hear it. Otherwise, I have you pegged as scum.

On June 24 2013 16:15 Onegu wrote:

I agree with this the first person who wrote about NN made me feel noob town, but the second person to post after hearing what was said against it is very odd/scummy.

On June 24 2013 12:35 Xzavier wrote:


But, the flipside. We have Parity cop who can effectively check two people every night. He shouldnt claim. Unless he is getting lynched (and we will still lynch you, mind this) You should say who you have found as scum, or confirmed town.

You can take your strongest town read and then strongest scum read, and compare them. if the are two different alignments, its pretty obvious who is who. IF you REALLY want to play like a traditional cop. then select one of the two names as yourself, this way you can see if they are the same alignment as you (town) or not (scum)

On June 24 2013 16:26 Aquanim wrote:

First, scum is unlikely to claim NN day 1 for fear of being counter-claimed. Somebody who claims NN is obviously not confirmed town, but they're considerably more likely to be town. I have personally never seen a day-one miller claim (analogous to a NN, with different investigative rolls) end up being scum, and plenty end up being town. A miller/NN who is thus likely town and can thus play a strong, town-leading role is a HIGHER PRIORITY for scum to kill than a possible bluesnipe.

Also, a day-one NN claim avoids two possibly disastrous situations later on:
1) An actual NN being seen visiting someone and being lynched for it.
2) Mafia fake-claiming NN after being seen visiting somebody.
Auto-lynching any NN claim is bad for in the first case, treating NN as town is bad in the second case. A day one claim, before there's any desperate need for a scum to fake-claim it, fixes both of these.

The gain in information which scum gets from a day-one NN claim IS NOT SIGNIFICANT. Even IF scum has a tracker, a NN claim reduces their pool of players to track by something like 10% (I haven't done the math but it's about that). And like I said, if the NN plays a good town game he becomes EVEN MORE IMPORTANT for scum to shoot.

Scum knowing not to track the NN is less valuable than town knowing not to track him.

I'm tired of trying to beat sense into y'all about this, and I'm tired of y'all calling me scum over a difference of opinion about game theory. Someone man up and vote me over this trash or start playing the game properly.



The other guy's plan was bad for other reasons. In this case, however, I am right, the rest of you are wrong, and I am trying to persuade you of that. I'm starting to feel like this is a waste of time though.

My case. On Chromatically. Opinions please.

On June 24 2013 13:28 Aquanim wrote:
Regarding scum
Current scumread is Chromatically for two reasons.

1) I don't like the feel of his initial posts. Making troll-cases to get the game rolling is fine, I have no objection to that in as of itself, but there's a certain nit-picking quality to his posts that feels wrong to me.


Trying to read something into someone not posting for five minutes is ludicrous.

2) He's been doing a lot of asking other people for their reads while offering nothing even approaching one of his own.

##Vote: Chromatically

On June 24 2013 16:48 FirmTofu wrote:
As for Chromatically...
Your case is extremely weak.

Addressing your point 1), you are going off a bad feeling. Feelings don't cut it for me. I need evidence to make a move.

Addressing point 2), it seems quite town to me because it's forcing lurkers to talk. Talking is good for town, so I see this move as something a townie would do.

There are a few other things that make me think Chromatically is town. He was the first person to point out the foolish aspects of Hurricane's poorly thought-out claim. What incentive would mafia have to steer town in the right direction?

On June 24 2013 16:59 Onegu wrote:


It is better to vote for lurkers who have posted one time and stopped then to vote for someone who hasnt posted anything because they will most likely get replaced or modkilled.

On June 24 2013 16:26 Aquanim wrote:

First, scum is unlikely to claim NN day 1 for fear of being counter-claimed. Somebody who claims NN is obviously not confirmed town, but they're considerably more likely to be town. I have personally never seen a day-one miller claim (analogous to a NN, with different investigative rolls) end up being scum, and plenty end up being town. A miller/NN who is thus likely town and can thus play a strong, town-leading role is a HIGHER PRIORITY for scum to kill than a possible bluesnipe.

Also, a day-one NN claim avoids two possibly disastrous situations later on:
1) An actual NN being seen visiting someone and being lynched for it.
2) Mafia fake-claiming NN after being seen visiting somebody.
Auto-lynching any NN claim is bad for in the first case, treating NN as town is bad in the second case. A day one claim, before there's any desperate need for a scum to fake-claim it, fixes both of these.

The gain in information which scum gets from a day-one NN claim IS NOT SIGNIFICANT. Even IF scum has a tracker, a NN claim reduces their pool of players to track by something like 10% (I haven't done the math but it's about that). And like I said, if the NN plays a good town game he becomes EVEN MORE IMPORTANT for scum to shoot.

Scum knowing not to track the NN is less valuable than town knowing not to track him.

I'm tired of trying to beat sense into y'all about this, and I'm tired of y'all calling me scum over a difference of opinion about game theory. Someone man up and vote me over this trash or start playing the game properly.



The other guy's plan was bad for other reasons. In this case, however, I am right, the rest of you are wrong, and I am trying to persuade you of that. I'm starting to feel like this is a waste of time though.

My case. On Chromatically. Opinions please.

On June 24 2013 17:55 Hurricane Sponge wrote:


I'll drop the whole NN thing if people feel like we're getting off-track with it, but it seems like we're in a holding pattern while we wait for inactives to defend themselves.

Regarding the NN Claim: This is a part of the game I clearly don't understand the far-reaching implications of. Addressing point #2, specifically: "Mafia fake-claiming NN after being seen visiting somebody. A day one claim, before there's any desperate need for a scum to fake-claim it, fixes (this)."

Is the value of preventing a mafia NN claim later in the game more than the benefit of having a real NN around to counter-claim it in the moment, catching the scum in the act? (This assumes the remaining townies have pegged the real NN as more town than the first claimant). Do not get discouraged- I would like to hear your thoughts on this subject, and it's important to emphasize that people make up their own minds on this matter as there is likely at least 1 scum trying to steer public opinion in the 'wrong' direction on this issue. You seem to have already convinced FirmTofu, and this is the kind of matter we can get Town Consensus on now in the early game.