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On June 23 2013 14:50 Hapahauli wrote:
Anyway, it looks like I've gotten everything out of Oats that I will for a while.
I'm not as sure that he's scum anymore. He's responding fairly quickly and not showing very much guilt while doing so. While his answers are incoherent and unprepared, they do make sense provided that he was calling me scum in order to "poke" me and see how I'd react.
I still find him "poking" somewhat uncharacteristic for his town-game (he's usually much more direct/forceful with his reads), but I'll need to sleep on it and see what his actual reads end up being before I make a final judgement call.
Have you ever stopped to consider that it's really easy for scum Oats to complain and bitch like a townie when the pressure has been on him? There's no way to can say that him acting like that can erase the fact that his filter is all talk and no real scumhunting.
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On June 23 2013 14:52 cDgCorazon wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2013 14:50 Hapahauli wrote:
Anyway, it looks like I've gotten everything out of Oats that I will for a while.
I'm not as sure that he's scum anymore. He's responding fairly quickly and not showing very much guilt while doing so. While his answers are incoherent and unprepared, they do make sense provided that he was calling me scum in order to "poke" me and see how I'd react.
I still find him "poking" somewhat uncharacteristic for his town-game (he's usually much more direct/forceful with his reads), but I'll need to sleep on it and see what his actual reads end up being before I make a final judgement call. Have you ever stopped to consider that it's really easy for scum Oats to complain and bitch like a townie when the pressure has been on him? There's no way to can say that him acting like that can erase the fact that his filter is all talk and no real scumhunting.
Perhaps. That doesn't change the fact that there is one possible legitimate reason for his line of responses.
And Oats and I basically had a 40-post back and forth. That's not real easy for scum to do. Certainly possible, but not very easy.
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On June 23 2013 14:54 Hapahauli wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2013 14:52 cDgCorazon wrote:On June 23 2013 14:50 Hapahauli wrote:
Anyway, it looks like I've gotten everything out of Oats that I will for a while.
I'm not as sure that he's scum anymore. He's responding fairly quickly and not showing very much guilt while doing so. While his answers are incoherent and unprepared, they do make sense provided that he was calling me scum in order to "poke" me and see how I'd react.
I still find him "poking" somewhat uncharacteristic for his town-game (he's usually much more direct/forceful with his reads), but I'll need to sleep on it and see what his actual reads end up being before I make a final judgement call. Have you ever stopped to consider that it's really easy for scum Oats to complain and bitch like a townie when the pressure has been on him? There's no way to can say that him acting like that can erase the fact that his filter is all talk and no real scumhunting. Perhaps. That doesn't change the fact that there is one possible legitimate reason for his line of responses. And Oats and I basically had a 40-post back and forth. That's not real easy for scum to do. Certainly possible, but not very easy.
I would agree with you if Oats' posts were on the same level of depth as yours. However, you were being very calm and giving reasons for your suspicions and he would just respond with one-liners and saying that you are wrong because he is town. The parity of the "intelligence" of the conversation was heavily swung in your favor. I think it's more non-alignment indicative because both frustrated scum and town can act like that.
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Anyway I'mma going to head to bed a bit earlier this time around.
Looking forward to seeing
1) Rayn's thoughts on myself and Oats
2) Oats/GK's scumreads
3) Moar redflips
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On June 23 2013 14:57 cDgCorazon wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2013 14:54 Hapahauli wrote:On June 23 2013 14:52 cDgCorazon wrote:On June 23 2013 14:50 Hapahauli wrote:
Anyway, it looks like I've gotten everything out of Oats that I will for a while.
I'm not as sure that he's scum anymore. He's responding fairly quickly and not showing very much guilt while doing so. While his answers are incoherent and unprepared, they do make sense provided that he was calling me scum in order to "poke" me and see how I'd react.
I still find him "poking" somewhat uncharacteristic for his town-game (he's usually much more direct/forceful with his reads), but I'll need to sleep on it and see what his actual reads end up being before I make a final judgement call. Have you ever stopped to consider that it's really easy for scum Oats to complain and bitch like a townie when the pressure has been on him? There's no way to can say that him acting like that can erase the fact that his filter is all talk and no real scumhunting. Perhaps. That doesn't change the fact that there is one possible legitimate reason for his line of responses. And Oats and I basically had a 40-post back and forth. That's not real easy for scum to do. Certainly possible, but not very easy. I would agree with you if Oats' posts were on the same level of depth as yours. However, you were being very calm and giving reasons for your suspicions and he would just respond with one-liners and saying that you are wrong because he is town. The parity of the "intelligence" of the conversation was heavily swung in your favor. I think it's more non-alignment indicative because both frustrated scum and town can act like that.
That's fair.
To clarify though, it's not so much that I'm convinced he's town, but that he's given me some reason to doubt that he's scum. Ultimately I'll decide to lynch him or not based on the substance he is going to provide.
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On June 23 2013 14:19 Hapahauli wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2013 14:15 Adam4167 wrote:On June 23 2013 14:05 Hapahauli wrote:On June 23 2013 14:01 Adam4167 wrote:
No. There's being unintentionally bad, where I will try to figure you out (go see duel mafia and my read on sylencia), and then being intentionally bad, such as Kush in smurf. You don't want to put the effort into playing properly, then i don't want you around with the idea lingering in the back of my head that you could be scum playing us for fools. We're not lynching Oats unless we think he's scum. Period. Do you think Oats is scum? Also presumably you caught-up with the thread now that you're posting - who are your other scum-reads? I am reasonably caught up. Right now I want to see more out of GoodKarma, ShioaPi and Raynpelikoneet. Oats would be on this list as well if he weren't playing like a dick. So presumably you find each person scummy to some degree. Can you elaborate your thoughts on each? I'm most interested in your thoughts on Rayn.
I actually like Rayns interest on D1, he seems to be trying to figure people out and push along his agenda. What I don't get is his push on you, and part of that being that you weren't on the DP vote. He says its not a factor, yet he brings it up twice. Now I understand hes been drinking tonight, so I want him to come along tomorrow and make some more sense. Basically his reads stand at odds with my own and id like a better insight.
GK and ShiaoPi tunneling each other is interesting. ShiaoPi just went AWOL instead of trying to push his scum read and GK did much the same after they had both voted each other. I want to see if they continue pushing each other and how they go about doing that.
Oats has been thoroughly useless, as discussed. I hope that he decides playing like an imbecile is boring soon and actually puts forward a decent case against you so I can get an idea of what he is actually thinking. I am reacting strongly towards oats on this because he had a box seat to Smurf Mafia being a co-host of that game. He clearly saw what kind of an effect a player like Kush can have on the town, yet hes choosing to mimic that here. What i'm starting to think is that he saw a towns reluctance to lynch an objectively scummy looking player and decided to replicate that here to his benefit.
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@Adam
I actually had this to say about Rayn:
On June 23 2013 08:33 cDgCorazon wrote:
Rayn's random vote-switching looks town to me because scum would not try to draw so much attention to themselves. Scum would know who they want to lynch and stick by them, not change votes 3 times in 20 minutes.
In your opinion, is my logic flawed or do I have decent reason to have a soft town read on Rayn?
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Yeah, I'd agree with that.
I still want to hear more from him though. He was on me in a flash in Mexican Standoff and saw through my bullshit when most of the playerbase just accepted it outright. If he sees something in Hapa that I've missed, I want to hear it.
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On June 23 2013 14:38 Hapahauli wrote:@ GKThere's really not much in that post I can draw from, but I await to see what you have for us when you catch up. That being said, I want to address one thing: Show nested quote +As for Hapa, it doesn't sit well with me how he seems to still be of such a conviction that I'm scum, when scumteam would have every motivation to push my mislynch over losing DP on day 1. It also doesn't sit well with me how he's spent much of his focus on those that weren't on my wagon, when those specifically on my wagon is really something that deserves a lot of attention. The thing about the DP lynch is that there wasn't much vocal opposition to it. Even players on your wagon (such as marv and I) were perfectly happy to see DP hang. You say that scum wanted to resist the DP wagon and want to do everything in their power to stop it, but where does that resistance come from? For me, the key to figuring out this game is your allignment. If you're town, then players like Adam and Shiao catapult to the top of the lynch list. However you've done very little to demonstrate that you're town, or even care about this game. You posted a case on Shiao and fucked off without having ever pushed it.
You've played this game enough that you should definitely understand that saying and doing are two totally different things. Obviously scum are going to say stuff like "this person doesn't look so hot" about a scumbuddy to distance themselves if they're ever considered for lynch. The key here is where they actually place their vote. And if they say their scumbuddy looks scummy while proactively pushing a different wagon. This series of quotes from Marv specifically comes to mind down that avenue:
On June 23 2013 07:38 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2013 07:35 slOosh wrote:
Ok that's definitely not the direction we want to be heading.
Could you reiterate your hesitations on lynching DP / larger sureness on lynching GK? DP was really active early and I'm generally loathe to lynch active players who I know are going to be active in days to come unless I'm really convinced by it. And yes, he's not pushed his lynch(es) very hard and that doesn't look great, but it doesn't look so not-great that I'm convinced by the lynch. goodkarma has defects in that I don't understand his thought process in Oats, and he's pulled a disappearing act. And in contrast to DP, he's not one of those active players I know I'll be able to get a handle on later. GK doesn't have the redeeming feature that during any stage of the game he seemed particularly interested, unlike DP.
On June 23 2013 07:41 marvellosity wrote:
In short: GK doesn't have redeeming features, DP does. GK *still* isn't here, and yet the lynch is on one of the most active players. People seem to be ok with GK totally fucking off despite professing he wants/needs to consolidate.
Why is that ok again?
On June 23 2013 07:43 marvellosity wrote:
No, because that's not important right now and I don't even understand why you're asking that right now.
Can we just lynch GK?
Does anyone have a good reason not to?
This specifically stood out in my mind when going through the thread. I'd say that Marv hasn't been altogether scummy in his play this game, but there is clear scum motive behind this kind of an active push.
And as far as "why weren't you here omg you scum," kind of avenues of thought:
You do realize that I wasn't here right? Like you can understand how if I was I would have fought my mislynch? I'm not sure what you're getting at here... This isn't even alignment-indicative.
I do indeed sometimes as scum play entirely inactive, but even as scum, why would I just sit there and not try to push some townie mislynch harder, and instead be content with possibly dying (I came pretty close)? You could paint the it was me or DP (with both of us being scum) scenario, but realistically why would scum team be so apathetic day one, when town vote can most easily be swayed, they wouldn't try to at least form some semblance of a townie bandwagon for a mislynch?
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@Adam
Thanks for the feedback. No one really brought it up before and no one really talked about it after I posted so I just wanted to make sure I was somewhere on the right track.
@GK
You do bring up a good point with Marv. Those posts illustrate your point very well, but they're not too far out of the way a townie who is simply misreading would post. I'll wait until Marv makes a rebuttal to make a real decision about his scumminess.
I'm going to bed. Looking forward to seeing more people post tomorrow.
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On June 23 2013 14:41 cDgCorazon wrote:I have a town read on Hapa as well. Hapa's been playing a very focused and straightfoward game: he's pursuing his scum reads and promoting active discussion. He also talked me out of lynching Yamato, who looks very townie now. When I unvoiced Yamato, the lynch went from being Yamato to being DP. Scum Hapa would've sat there and allowed me to vote Yamato off. Why would he convince me to switch off of the counter lynch to scum DP? That just does not make sense. Unless this was some sort of crazy bus, I don't see Hapa as a threat. The only way I would see Hapa being a threat is if he survives to D3/D4. I wouldn't see scum letting him live that wrong unless he was completely wrong with his reads. While that was the case in I Sware mafia, I don't think Hapa is the type of player to get reads completely wrong 2 games in a row. Anything else you want to know?
The reason I asked was specifically because of this quote:
On June 23 2013 05:28 cDgCorazon wrote:
I have a strong feeling about DP being town for a couple of reasons:
1. His play has been productive and level-headed for most of the game. He is contributing to discussion and I don't believe he is hiding anything. His play seems very genuine to me and he has been very logical and reasonable in everyone he has analyzed. I don't see anything in his filter that looks scummy to me.
2. There have been a couple points where Hapa has been under fire. Instead of joining the wagon or not saying anything, DP has come out multiple (at least 5 times) to say that a Hapa lynch is a really stupid idea due to Hapa's importance to town. It would be so easy for scum DP to jump on the Hapa lynch train or to just sit out of the way and let a Hapa lynch train form. The fact that he went out of his way to defend Hapa means that he wants to keep Hapa alive for as long as possible, which would be super beneficial to town.
The bolded part implies that you very strongly believe Hapa to be town, and is something I suspected might be a scumslip. However, looking at your filter I'm not inclined to believe you've really been suspicious of Hapa all that much, so that might just be your townread of Hapa bleeding through as bias in this quote.
On June 23 2013 14:50 cDgCorazon wrote:@GK Has your read on Oats changed since Show nested quote +On June 21 2013 15:18 goodkarma wrote:
Different people play scum in different ways. You say that the way Oats has played so far would be impossible for scum because there's "no survival instinct." I would strongly disagree with that. Oats so far hasn't really persay tunneled anyone all that hard. Coming from a game where he (as town) literally devoted all his energies to trying to get me lynched, his play this game is dramatically different. Sure, it's early and he could maybe not have that guy he's feeling really strongly is scum, but it is odd that he can so lightly jump on and off of people the way he has. Especially what he did with Yamato felt a bit off to me, more or less completely sheeping thread sentiment while entirely abandoning any focus on his prior scumreads.
I really haven't seen this "lack of survival instinct" you seem to have. This is a guy that as town waves his arms in the air and begs to get mislynched or vigshot for how scummy he looks. Here, I'd say he's not really acting like that. ? Especially after his recent outburst of random bullcrap that he calls scumhunting?
Oats has demonstrated he's really good at conjuring up "random bullcrap." The question at hand is whether said bullcrap is scum motivated in any way. I still believe as scum he wouldn't draw attention to himself like this. That being said, I haven't taken the time to discern whether it is or not, and don't plan to tonight for the sake of my sanity.
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On June 23 2013 14:24 goodkarma wrote:
I mean it's possible that literally the entire scumteam was inactive, but I find it highly unlikely. And the scumteam would not be trying to form up two scum bandwagons, so I don't understand how after the lynch today anyone can genuinely think that I'm scum...
GK, what are you trying to say with this? specifically "And the scumteam would not be trying to form up two scum bandwagons". If there were two scum being pushed yesterday, why would we even consider that both (or either) of them were also being pushed by scum?
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Current View on Hapa.
I am getting the vibe similar to the one in I swear, where he was town. He also started to lead town in the night and again, looks similar to I swear. Hapa is town.
Cora's ego is really big.
Can everyone explain 2-3 lines why marv is town?
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Also sloosh is being really inactive and the high post count in this game makes it probably harder. Replace out or continue this way and get lynched sloosh :/
I think Adam is trying too hard to paint my attitude as scummy when every single person that he saw with this attitude has been town. Therefore Adam is scum.
Adam, why is shiao and GK scum? You only summarized shit and didnt say why that makes them scum.
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I did not say they were scum. I said by process of elimination, I wanted to hear more out of them.
Ill let you know when I have a scum read I actually feel confident in.
I want you to stop dicking around and make a real case that consists of more than a single line against someone. If thats me, then so be it, but make yourself useful.
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On June 23 2013 16:47 Adam4167 wrote:
I did not say they were scum. I said by process of elimination, I wanted to hear more out of them.
Ill let you know when I have a scum read I actually feel confident in.
I want you to stop dicking around and make a real case that consists of more than a single line against someone. If thats me, then so be it, but make yourself useful.
There are 60 pages. Why do you not have a scumread?
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11589 Posts
On June 23 2013 08:12 cDgCorazon wrote:
This is why I never talk about my town reads.
Anyways, I'm not entirely sure if I should claim seeing as I'm getting lynched tomorrow.
Cora, can you explain this further? Why would you tell the thread you have a role and not actually claim it?
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Why are you awake and what do you think of Adams utter uselessness?
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United Kingdom36161 Posts
On June 23 2013 12:27 Oatsmaster wrote:
cause i feel like his play in this game is way different from his play in ISWEAR. There he just occasionally posted null reads and stuff and never really interacted with the thread. Here, he pushed me, push shiao pi. So when marv has bad reasoning for both GK and Yamato, its really not great. Doesnt mean right = good reasoning for yamato.
My reasoning is good, but you are bad. Sorry dude.
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On June 23 2013 19:57 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2013 12:27 Oatsmaster wrote:
cause i feel like his play in this game is way different from his play in ISWEAR. There he just occasionally posted null reads and stuff and never really interacted with the thread. Here, he pushed me, push shiao pi. So when marv has bad reasoning for both GK and Yamato, its really not great. Doesnt mean right = good reasoning for yamato.
My reasoning is good, but you are bad. Sorry dude.
whos scum?
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EPT
