EPT[N] Sicilian Mafia Style - Page 3
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strongandbig
United States4858 Posts
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strongandbig
United States4858 Posts
First, I feel like the scum team was underpowered. IMO any setup where town has more KP than mafia is problematic, plus there's the protective bodyguard role. It didnt come up this game because we bluesniped gumshoe, but I feel like any game where scum only has one KP should never have protective roles, since it's already hard for scum to keep town from snowballing around important/good townies. Then there's the presence of the investigation roles, without any anti-investigative roles for scum. True, they didnt work like normal parity cops who can make a chain of checks, but I still think the two gimped cops are better for town than one normal parity cop since it's harder for scum to kill both of them before they hit on at least one scum player. So we have a town with two vigs, a protective role, and two investigative roles, against a scum team which pretty much had only anti-scum power roles. Silencer doesn't help much and, if used on an active town leader, basically confirms them; the only way to use it to help confirm scum is if you already have a scum player who is an active town leader, and that should not be a prerequisite for using one of your few power roles. Then we have the pardoner who can't pardon scum, and the dayvig. Those are powerful in a numbers sense, it's true, but they both hurt the scum team to use (have to out the dayvig, have to save a townie). So in itself, this is a difficult setup for scum. Especially given the SK, who had stronger powers than the entire scum team (KP + bulletproof + pardoner for either team). I would argue that a bulletproof SK with regular KP is much more suited to a larger game where scum have multiple KP rather than a game like this one with only 1 nightly KP. Usually SK has to work with town to get scum lynched, but if the SK can kill scum as fast as scum can kill town the SK can pretty much win while ignoring the thread. All that said, in itself I wouldn't argue that this setup should inherently be rejected, although I do think the SK should be changed either by having his bp be one-shot or by reducing his KP to, say, three per game. The problem comes when you add that it's a pm game. Pm games are inherently stronger for town; I've played in 3 I think, and scum has not won any of them. While it's been said truly that it's hard for one individual to figure out one other individual in pms (like mason partners) when a whole game had access to them it puts a different kind of pressure on the scum team to be active in multiple ways and to interact more, which leads to them getting caught. So it's the combination of a really tough setup plus pms that makes me feel like scum never had a chance to begin with. My second problem is with the way the roles were chosen, not from a balance perspective but from a design perspective. The roles feel really gimmicky. The two cops, for example, feel like a "test of how town can deal with weird cop claims". The silent pardoners were apparently a mistake so I'll ignore that, but having three pardoners and having the anti town ones unable to pardon their own factions feels like a gimmick as well. Then there's the JK role, which I don't understand. Someone said that it didn't stop KP on its target, but if that is true then (a) it appears that the actual JK didn't know it since they tried to protect drh, and (b) it appears to only be useful against town since all scum's powers were day-use. Unless it stops its target from using scum KP. If it either protects against or stops the use of KP, then it's obviously overpowered in a game with only one scum KP, and if it doesn't then it's a power role like silence which only hurts its own team. The problem with having gimmicky roles is that we were already trying out two huge setup gimmicks in this game, the post count restrictions and the limited pm network. I would really love to at an actually normal game with post count restrictions, but this game wasn't it. | ||
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strongandbig
United States4858 Posts
On August 04 2013 03:31 raynpelikoneet wrote: I kinda agree with you SnB, but the SK balances the game very well. i disagree - the sk balances the game from the town's side (town would be way op without the sk) but it doesn't balance the game from the scum side (the sk existing doesn't increase scum's chances of winning since if they get ahead he will cooperate with town). | ||
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strongandbig
United States4858 Posts
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strongandbig
United States4858 Posts
Like kush if you want to have what you consider an "accurate" record then just put it in your profile and anyone who cares (aka you) can look at it there. | ||
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strongandbig
United States4858 Posts
On August 05 2013 12:08 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: In the end the town still didn't win. So it's wrong to say I handed them the game. It was basically giving the mafia the game versus making it a bit more difficult for the mafia to win. I wouldn't say a modkill is losing it for your team, losing a game is making bad plays and just sheeping along blatantly bad lynches. Getting modkilled is ruining the game for everyone, mafia gets unearned victory and it kind of shits on the integrity of the game. And I said it before, as a host you are inevitably going to fuck up eventually, it's how you handle the fuckup that matters. You are faced with tough calls and have to make decisions that aren't going to make everyone happy. I'm sorry if you/kush find that unacceptable. However lets point out, it still wasn't enough to get the town a win. In the end the SK won Also it was possible for the SK to die at night, it was just exceptionally difficult. He wasn't bullet proof he just had two night lives. No one ever actually attacked him. Alternatively, you could just lynch him if you are paying enough attention to catch him. However he did play pretty well, I think it took Ver until day 3 to figure him out. yeah, okay you're right about the modkill vs replacement in this case. | ||
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