• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 23:34
CEST 05:34
KST 12:34
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Code S Season 1 - RO8 Preview3[ASL21] Ro8 Preview Pt2: Progenitors8Code S Season 1 - RO12 Group A: Rogue, Percival, Solar, Zoun13[ASL21] Ro8 Preview Pt1: Inheritors16[ASL21] Ro16 Preview Pt2: All Star10
Community News
Maestros of The Game 2 announcement and schedule !6Weekly Cups (April 27-May 4): Clem takes triple0RSL Revival: Season 5 - Qualifiers and Main Event12Code S Season 1 (2026) - RO12 Results12026 GSL Season 1 Qualifiers25
StarCraft 2
General
Code S Season 1 - RO8 Preview Behind the Blue - Team Liquid History Book Weekly Cups (April 27-May 4): Clem takes triple Blizzard Classic Cup @ BlizzCon 2026 - $100k prize pool Code S Season 1 (2026) - RO12 Results
Tourneys
GSL Code S Season 1 (2026) Maestros of The Game 2 announcement and schedule ! Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond) RSL Revival: Season 5 - Qualifiers and Main Event Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament
Strategy
Custom Maps
[D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3 [A] Nemrods 1/4 players
External Content
Mutation # 524 Death and Taxes The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 523 Firewall Mutation # 522 Flip My Base
Brood War
General
Do we have a pimpest plays list? BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ (Spoiler) Asl ro8 D winner interview BW General Discussion AI Question
Tourneys
[ASL21] Ro8 Day 4 Small VOD Thread 2.0 [BSL22] RO16 Group Stage - 02 - 10 May [ASL21] Ro8 Day 3
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Fighting Spirit mining rates What's the deal with APM & what's its true value Any training maps people recommend?
Other Games
General Games
Path of Exile Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread OutLive 25 (RTS Game) Dawn of War IV
Dota 2
The Story of Wings Gaming
League of Legends
G2 just beat GenG in First stand
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas TL Mafia Community Thread Five o'clock TL Mafia
Community
General
European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread US Politics Mega-thread The Letting Off Steam Thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread 3D technology/software discussion
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread McBoner: A hockey love story Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
streaming software Strange computer issues (software) [G] How to Block Livestream Ads
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
How EEG Data Can Predict Gam…
TrAiDoS
ramps on octagon
StaticNine
Funny Nicknames
LUCKY_NOOB
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 2045 users

[N] Sicilian Mafia Style - Page 3

Forum Index > TL Mafia
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 All
strongandbig
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States4858 Posts
August 03 2013 03:53 GMT
#1742
i'll post tomorrow probably but i'm really not pleased with the balance in this game.
"It's the torso" "only more so!"
strongandbig
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States4858 Posts
August 03 2013 18:23 GMT
#1792
So I have two problems with the setup this game.

First, I feel like the scum team was underpowered. IMO any setup where town has more KP than mafia is problematic, plus there's the protective bodyguard role. It didnt come up this game because we bluesniped gumshoe, but I feel like any game where scum only has one KP should never have protective roles, since it's already hard for scum to keep town from snowballing around important/good townies.
Then there's the presence of the investigation roles, without any anti-investigative roles for scum. True, they didnt work like normal parity cops who can make a chain of checks, but I still think the two gimped cops are better for town than one normal parity cop since it's harder for scum to kill both of them before they hit on at least one scum player.
So we have a town with two vigs, a protective role, and two investigative roles, against a scum team which pretty much had only anti-scum power roles. Silencer doesn't help much and, if used on an active town leader, basically confirms them; the only way to use it to help confirm scum is if you already have a scum player who is an active town leader, and that should not be a prerequisite for using one of your few power roles. Then we have the pardoner who can't pardon scum, and the dayvig. Those are powerful in a numbers sense, it's true, but they both hurt the scum team to use (have to out the dayvig, have to save a townie).

So in itself, this is a difficult setup for scum. Especially given the SK, who had stronger powers than the entire scum team (KP + bulletproof + pardoner for either team). I would argue that a bulletproof SK with regular KP is much more suited to a larger game where scum have multiple KP rather than a game like this one with only 1 nightly KP. Usually SK has to work with town to get scum lynched, but if the SK can kill scum as fast as scum can kill town the SK can pretty much win while ignoring the thread.

All that said, in itself I wouldn't argue that this setup should inherently be rejected, although I do think the SK should be changed either by having his bp be one-shot or by reducing his KP to, say, three per game.

The problem comes when you add that it's a pm game. Pm games are inherently stronger for town; I've played in 3 I think, and scum has not won any of them. While it's been said truly that it's hard for one individual to figure out one other individual in pms (like mason partners) when a whole game had access to them it puts a different kind of pressure on the scum team to be active in multiple ways and to interact more, which leads to them getting caught. So it's the combination of a really tough setup plus pms that makes me feel like scum never had a chance to begin with.


My second problem is with the way the roles were chosen, not from a balance perspective but from a design perspective. The roles feel really gimmicky. The two cops, for example, feel like a "test of how town can deal with weird cop claims".

The silent pardoners were apparently a mistake so I'll ignore that, but having three pardoners and having the anti town ones unable to pardon their own factions feels like a gimmick as well.
Then there's the JK role, which I don't understand. Someone said that it didn't stop KP on its target, but if that is true then (a) it appears that the actual JK didn't know it since they tried to protect drh, and (b) it appears to only be useful against town since all scum's powers were day-use. Unless it stops its target from using scum KP. If it either protects against or stops the use of KP, then it's obviously overpowered in a game with only one scum KP, and if it doesn't then it's a power role like silence which only hurts its own team.

The problem with having gimmicky roles is that we were already trying out two huge setup gimmicks in this game, the post count restrictions and the limited pm network. I would really love to at an actually normal game with post count restrictions, but this game wasn't it.
"It's the torso" "only more so!"
strongandbig
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States4858 Posts
August 04 2013 00:01 GMT
#1804
On August 04 2013 03:31 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I kinda agree with you SnB, but the SK balances the game very well.


i disagree - the sk balances the game from the town's side (town would be way op without the sk) but it doesn't balance the game from the scum side (the sk existing doesn't increase scum's chances of winning since if they get ahead he will cooperate with town).
"It's the torso" "only more so!"
strongandbig
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States4858 Posts
August 05 2013 01:21 GMT
#1816
It's true that modkilling town to death is not great, but then it's Adam losing the game for his team vs the hosts winning it for his team. So that probably should have happened. Not really the important point here though, although Adam should get a ban for it
"It's the torso" "only more so!"
strongandbig
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States4858 Posts
August 05 2013 01:24 GMT
#1818
That is true

Like kush if you want to have what you consider an "accurate" record then just put it in your profile and anyone who cares (aka you) can look at it there.
"It's the torso" "only more so!"
strongandbig
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States4858 Posts
August 05 2013 04:27 GMT
#1826
On August 05 2013 12:08 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 05 2013 10:21 strongandbig wrote:
It's true that modkilling town to death is not great, but then it's Adam losing the game for his team vs the hosts winning it for his team. So that probably should have happened. Not really the important point here though, although Adam should get a ban for it

In the end the town still didn't win. So it's wrong to say I handed them the game. It was basically giving the mafia the game versus making it a bit more difficult for the mafia to win. I wouldn't say a modkill is losing it for your team, losing a game is making bad plays and just sheeping along blatantly bad lynches. Getting modkilled is ruining the game for everyone, mafia gets unearned victory and it kind of shits on the integrity of the game.

And I said it before, as a host you are inevitably going to fuck up eventually, it's how you handle the fuckup that matters. You are faced with tough calls and have to make decisions that aren't going to make everyone happy. I'm sorry if you/kush find that unacceptable. However lets point out, it still wasn't enough to get the town a win. In the end the SK won

Also it was possible for the SK to die at night, it was just exceptionally difficult. He wasn't bullet proof he just had two night lives. No one ever actually attacked him. Alternatively, you could just lynch him if you are paying enough attention to catch him. However he did play pretty well, I think it took Ver until day 3 to figure him out.


yeah, okay you're right about the modkill vs replacement in this case.
"It's the torso" "only more so!"
Prev 1 2 3 All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Replay Cast
00:00
SEL Doubles #2
CranKy Ducklings105
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
SpeCial 212
WinterStarcraft165
RuFF_SC2 139
ProTech100
Nina 64
StarCraft: Brood War
GuemChi 5966
Mind 230
yabsab 58
JulyZerg 53
Noble 44
NaDa 38
910 36
Nal_rA 15
Dota 2
monkeys_forever688
NeuroSwarm74
Counter-Strike
taco 600
Other Games
C9.Mang0531
ViBE115
Sick81
Mew2King28
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick854
BasetradeTV283
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 15 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• EnkiAlexander 44
• CranKy Ducklings SOOP41
• OhrlRock 2
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• sM.Zik 1
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Stunt279
Upcoming Events
Escore
6h 26m
The PondCast
6h 26m
WardiTV Invitational
7h 26m
Zoun vs Ryung
Lambo vs ShoWTimE
Big Brain Bouts
12h 26m
Fjant vs Bly
Serral vs Shameless
OSC
18h 26m
Replay Cast
20h 26m
CranKy Ducklings
1d 6h
RSL Revival
1d 6h
SHIN vs Bunny
ByuN vs Shameless
WardiTV Invitational
1d 7h
Krystianer vs TriGGeR
Cure vs Rogue
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
1d 11h
[ Show More ]
BSL
1d 15h
Artosis vs TerrOr
spx vs StRyKeR
Replay Cast
1d 20h
Sparkling Tuna Cup
2 days
RSL Revival
2 days
Cure vs Zoun
Clem vs Lambo
WardiTV Invitational
2 days
BSL
2 days
Dewalt vs DragOn
Aether vs Jimin
GSL
3 days
Afreeca Starleague
3 days
Soma vs Leta
Wardi Open
3 days
Monday Night Weeklies
3 days
OSC
3 days
CranKy Ducklings
4 days
Afreeca Starleague
4 days
Light vs Flash
Replay Cast
5 days
Replay Cast
5 days
The PondCast
6 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-05-05
WardiTV TLMC #16
Nations Cup 2026

Ongoing

BSL Season 22
ASL Season 21
CSL 2026 SPRING (S20)
IPSL Spring 2026
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 2
Acropolis #4
Escore Tournament S2: W6
SCTL 2026 Spring
RSL Revival: Season 5
2026 GSL S1
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Finals
ESL Pro League S23 Stage 1&2

Upcoming

KK 2v2 League Season 1
BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
YSL S3
Escore Tournament S2: W7
Escore Tournament S2: W8
CSLAN 4
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Maestros of the Game 2
2026 GSL S2
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026: Closed Qualifier
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
PGL Astana 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.