• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 05:56
CEST 11:56
KST 18:56
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Ro24 Preview: Siren's Call8[ASL22] Ro24 Preview: Summer's End9Serral wins HomeStory Cup 2915Serral wins Maestros of the Game 244ByuL, and the Limitations of Standard Play3
Community News
Weekly Cups (August 24-30): Patches' balance mod takes over0New 3v3 BGH Ladder (and more) on ShieldBattery!36Weekly Cups (August 17-23): Zerg dominate the week6Weekly Cups (August 10-16): SHIN doubles2GSTL Returns in 2026!45
StarCraft 2
General
How would you feel about frequent/monthly balance patches for SC2? Weekly Cups (August 24-30): Patches' balance mod takes over SC4ALL II: SC2 Player Announcement 6/8 - Maru Weekly Cups (August 17-23): Zerg dominate the week Daily SC2 Player Grid - feedback wanted
Tourneys
PIG STY FESTIVAL 8.0! (13 - 23 August) Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament 2026 GSTL Announcement IntoTheTV X SOOP SC2 League : Weekly & Monthly WORTEX 2026 - Hungarian SC2 Finals Budapest
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
Nexus Wars 2021 GUIDE [M] (2) Industrial Park
External Content
Mutation # 541 Binary Choice The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 540 Dodge This Mutation # 539 Thunder Dome
Brood War
General
New 3v3 BGH Ladder (and more) on ShieldBattery! BW General Discussion Starcraft vs Retro Category on Twitch ASL22 General Discussion Pros React To: Calm's Big Brain Play Vs Mini
Tourneys
Escore Tournament - Season 3 [ASL22] Ro24 Group F [Megathread] Daily Proleagues BSL LAN Party - Kraków 29-30 August - OPEN SIGNUPS
Strategy
Replay Review Process - What do you do? Game Theory for Starcraft Odyssey Mineral Stack Saturation Fighting Spirit mining rates
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread General RTS Discussion Thread Anyone here play Quakeworld back in the day? EVE Corporation
Dota 2
Browser Invoker Combo Trainer & Speedrun Simulator Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish TSM pausing esports and CLG Dead
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Power Rank TL Mafia Community Thread NeO.D_StephenKing vs This Guy From 1 Million Dance
Community
General
Canadian Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
MarineLorD Fan Club The Creator Fan Club The ShoWTimE Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! Anime Discussion Thread
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 MLB/Baseball 2023 NBA General Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List Northern Ireland Global Starcraft
Blogs
Regacy Esports: The Bh…
regacyesports
Violent Games and Crime Rate…
TrAiDoS
LOCKPICKING NOOB
LUCKY_NOOB
Cathedral Of CS And NY pizza a…
FuDDx
Please support my new stand…
Peanutsc
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 6290 users

[N] Sicilian Mafia Style - Page 3

Forum Index > TL Mafia
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 All
strongandbig
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States4858 Posts
August 03 2013 03:53 GMT
#1742
i'll post tomorrow probably but i'm really not pleased with the balance in this game.
"It's the torso" "only more so!"
strongandbig
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States4858 Posts
August 03 2013 18:23 GMT
#1792
So I have two problems with the setup this game.

First, I feel like the scum team was underpowered. IMO any setup where town has more KP than mafia is problematic, plus there's the protective bodyguard role. It didnt come up this game because we bluesniped gumshoe, but I feel like any game where scum only has one KP should never have protective roles, since it's already hard for scum to keep town from snowballing around important/good townies.
Then there's the presence of the investigation roles, without any anti-investigative roles for scum. True, they didnt work like normal parity cops who can make a chain of checks, but I still think the two gimped cops are better for town than one normal parity cop since it's harder for scum to kill both of them before they hit on at least one scum player.
So we have a town with two vigs, a protective role, and two investigative roles, against a scum team which pretty much had only anti-scum power roles. Silencer doesn't help much and, if used on an active town leader, basically confirms them; the only way to use it to help confirm scum is if you already have a scum player who is an active town leader, and that should not be a prerequisite for using one of your few power roles. Then we have the pardoner who can't pardon scum, and the dayvig. Those are powerful in a numbers sense, it's true, but they both hurt the scum team to use (have to out the dayvig, have to save a townie).

So in itself, this is a difficult setup for scum. Especially given the SK, who had stronger powers than the entire scum team (KP + bulletproof + pardoner for either team). I would argue that a bulletproof SK with regular KP is much more suited to a larger game where scum have multiple KP rather than a game like this one with only 1 nightly KP. Usually SK has to work with town to get scum lynched, but if the SK can kill scum as fast as scum can kill town the SK can pretty much win while ignoring the thread.

All that said, in itself I wouldn't argue that this setup should inherently be rejected, although I do think the SK should be changed either by having his bp be one-shot or by reducing his KP to, say, three per game.

The problem comes when you add that it's a pm game. Pm games are inherently stronger for town; I've played in 3 I think, and scum has not won any of them. While it's been said truly that it's hard for one individual to figure out one other individual in pms (like mason partners) when a whole game had access to them it puts a different kind of pressure on the scum team to be active in multiple ways and to interact more, which leads to them getting caught. So it's the combination of a really tough setup plus pms that makes me feel like scum never had a chance to begin with.


My second problem is with the way the roles were chosen, not from a balance perspective but from a design perspective. The roles feel really gimmicky. The two cops, for example, feel like a "test of how town can deal with weird cop claims".

The silent pardoners were apparently a mistake so I'll ignore that, but having three pardoners and having the anti town ones unable to pardon their own factions feels like a gimmick as well.
Then there's the JK role, which I don't understand. Someone said that it didn't stop KP on its target, but if that is true then (a) it appears that the actual JK didn't know it since they tried to protect drh, and (b) it appears to only be useful against town since all scum's powers were day-use. Unless it stops its target from using scum KP. If it either protects against or stops the use of KP, then it's obviously overpowered in a game with only one scum KP, and if it doesn't then it's a power role like silence which only hurts its own team.

The problem with having gimmicky roles is that we were already trying out two huge setup gimmicks in this game, the post count restrictions and the limited pm network. I would really love to at an actually normal game with post count restrictions, but this game wasn't it.
"It's the torso" "only more so!"
strongandbig
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States4858 Posts
August 04 2013 00:01 GMT
#1804
On August 04 2013 03:31 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I kinda agree with you SnB, but the SK balances the game very well.


i disagree - the sk balances the game from the town's side (town would be way op without the sk) but it doesn't balance the game from the scum side (the sk existing doesn't increase scum's chances of winning since if they get ahead he will cooperate with town).
"It's the torso" "only more so!"
strongandbig
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States4858 Posts
August 05 2013 01:21 GMT
#1816
It's true that modkilling town to death is not great, but then it's Adam losing the game for his team vs the hosts winning it for his team. So that probably should have happened. Not really the important point here though, although Adam should get a ban for it
"It's the torso" "only more so!"
strongandbig
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States4858 Posts
August 05 2013 01:24 GMT
#1818
That is true

Like kush if you want to have what you consider an "accurate" record then just put it in your profile and anyone who cares (aka you) can look at it there.
"It's the torso" "only more so!"
strongandbig
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States4858 Posts
August 05 2013 04:27 GMT
#1826
On August 05 2013 12:08 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 05 2013 10:21 strongandbig wrote:
It's true that modkilling town to death is not great, but then it's Adam losing the game for his team vs the hosts winning it for his team. So that probably should have happened. Not really the important point here though, although Adam should get a ban for it

In the end the town still didn't win. So it's wrong to say I handed them the game. It was basically giving the mafia the game versus making it a bit more difficult for the mafia to win. I wouldn't say a modkill is losing it for your team, losing a game is making bad plays and just sheeping along blatantly bad lynches. Getting modkilled is ruining the game for everyone, mafia gets unearned victory and it kind of shits on the integrity of the game.

And I said it before, as a host you are inevitably going to fuck up eventually, it's how you handle the fuckup that matters. You are faced with tough calls and have to make decisions that aren't going to make everyone happy. I'm sorry if you/kush find that unacceptable. However lets point out, it still wasn't enough to get the town a win. In the end the SK won

Also it was possible for the SK to die at night, it was just exceptionally difficult. He wasn't bullet proof he just had two night lives. No one ever actually attacked him. Alternatively, you could just lynch him if you are paying enough attention to catch him. However he did play pretty well, I think it took Ver until day 3 to figure him out.


yeah, okay you're right about the modkill vs replacement in this case.
"It's the torso" "only more so!"
Prev 1 2 3 All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 4m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
SortOf 125
EnDerr 24
Trap 14
ProTech1
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 8992
Calm 1942
Hyuk 1711
Bisu 1215
Horang2 498
Killer 354
Larva 301
HiyA 217
Yoon 156
Sharp 78
[ Show more ]
Mind 55
Bale 44
Free 38
Hm[arnc] 30
Sacsri 24
ajuk12(nOOB) 11
yabsab 10
SilentControl 8
Counter-Strike
olofmeister992
shoxiejesuss836
Other Games
ceh9687
XaKoH 189
KnowMe180
Sick160
singsing5
Organizations
StarCraft: Brood War
Afreeca ASL 1005
UltimateBattle 31
lovetv 9
[ Show 12 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• StrangeGG 35
• LUISG 18
• CranKy Ducklings SOOP4
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• iopq 12
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Upcoming Events
Sparkling Tuna Cup
4m
CranKy Ducklings18
Afreeca Starleague
4m
Monday Night Weeklies
6h 4m
GSL
1d 1h
OSC
1d 3h
PiGosaur Cup
1d 14h
Kung Fu Cup
2 days
Replay Cast
2 days
The PondCast
3 days
IntoTheTV X SOOP
4 days
[ Show More ]
CranKy Ducklings
5 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
6 days
OSC
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

BSL 2026 LAN: Kraków
PiG Sty Festival 8.0
Light Tournament 2026

Ongoing

KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 3
K-JUNGMAN
ASL Season 22
Super Anchor Qualifying S3
CSL Season 22: Qualifier 2
RSL Revival: Season 6
Big Dog Cup 2026 Div 1
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
Esports World Cup 2026: LCQ
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026

Upcoming

CSL 2026 AUTUMN (S22)
Escore Tournament S3: King of Kings
Acropolis #5
Acropolis #5 - TRS
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Acropolis #5 - GSA
Acropolis #5 - GSB
HSC XXX
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
Calamity Invitational
BLAST Rivals Fall 2026
IEM Beijing 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
1win Private Club #2
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #3
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.