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On May 16 2013 04:23 VayneAuthority wrote:Show nested quote +On May 16 2013 03:50 ObviousOne wrote:On May 16 2013 03:47 VayneAuthority wrote:On May 16 2013 03:31 ObviousOne wrote:On May 16 2013 01:59 slOosh wrote:
I'm starting to doubt my initial read on Rayn. His continued followup and focus on OO looks good and addresses a bulk of my case indirectly. It throws me off that he misses my huge posts but that could be an innocent mistake. I'm most thrown off by how many people have echoed agreement but no one was willing to put votes on him, you know, to actually get him lynched.
And that's the general atmosphere of how I'm reading Day 1. Many people voicing suspicions and pointing fingers, but very few people actually pushing / consolidating / willing to get people lynched. That leads me to believe that we have a more lurky / timid type scum team that is joining on what is available rather than actively working to push lynches. The difficulty is that we have a bunch of lurky town who are doing the exact same thing and letting scum hide amongst them.
My stance upon OO is dependent on if he can back his words with proof - if he can mount a meta case on Vayne and therefore justify his actions and stances, then he doesn't look that bad, given that I don't really find Prom's "scumslip" thing that big, as indicated by my earlier question to him.
People I want to lynch will reveal themselves early tomorrow. If they don't / can't push the cases / suspicions that they voiced in day 1, then we know they were full of fluff and just pretending to look good. You might be waiting a few games to get a full fledged meta case on Vayne. You know, considering this is game 2 for him on this forum here on this account as far as I am aware. If you call me saying him reacting emotionally to Prom when he said that's what he does as town in this very game (and a far as I'm aware that is where this concept originates, that he will get emotional as town when he is headed for a mislynch), why should I believe it? So I take his last game and his explanation from his play there and extend it to here and I'm left with conflicting ideas brought up by his own design that he essentially is authoring his own meta on a game by game basis. All I have to go on is his own word regarding this and that's why I don't trust it as it makes me wonder why it is that you DO. If I precluded my own play this game with "I only get demotivated about the game as town" and then did what I did, would you honestly take my word for it they I pre-emotes my actions with reasoning? Besides all that, meta is icing on the cake and not a sole basis for my case. His points regarding Prp were null, not scummy, and I wanted to hang him for lynching Prp for basically manufactured reasons. His emotional response at 3 votes is absolutely out of this world incongruent with the game state. you're overanalyzing this shitty player, I could never be so sneaky. I have one playstyle and thats it hurrr Don't forget who the main wagons were either. Show me some of that sweet sweet vote analysis you say is one of your strengths. Show us. alright serious face. If you guys are really intent on visceraeyes being a good player (I cant meta this) then he is honestly really suspicious and not just for omgus reasons. just take one look at his voting history this past day, he was pretty much up to lynch just about anyone and anything. Bounced around so much you cant even get any info on him when he flips later. Completely disassociated himself from his voting and seemed indifferent at actually lynching town or scum.
ve is a really inconsistent player, sometimes he's really good and sometimes he isn't. but he's not one of those consistently really good players
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On May 16 2013 12:43 Oatsmaster wrote:Show nested quote +On May 16 2013 03:57 strongandbig wrote:
Okay let's talk about this stuff
- Wanting to kill people who "have a bad attitude" or who "are making promises" are classic scum tactics. Scum need to find someone to kill for a reason other than that they are scum, and this is often taken as an easy out. The reason that's the scummiest and worst post in the thread is that oats is trying to pass this off as normal.
Or you didnt read the 'bad' attitude? Coupled with the previous scummiest, that tipped the balance for me. Show nested quote +
- I don't care that oats claimed that his vote was stolen, I care that he just casually passed it off without bringing any attention or analysis to it. It's a scummy way to make a claim of kind of an unusual role-mechanic.
Kind sir, can you elaborate on the kind of analysis that you want from a pm that I got saying 'your vote is stolen today''? Show nested quote +
- It's not the way that oats came to the conclusion that rayn had scumslipped, it's how he reacted to the supposed scumslip. If you're a townie and you think someone has scumslipped, you jump all over them. You explain why it's a scumslip, you bring it to people's attention, you try and get that scum killed. Instead oats just casually threw out "hey doods its a scum slip," without pursuing it or even explaining what the scumslip was.
Yeah, you would think as scum that I would go all out on that scumslip right? Funny huh, how Im not playing like mafia. I dont think scumslips actually exist further than info that they shouldnt know like number of mafia in a closed setup game and stuff like that. That was not the case. Show nested quote +
- finally, if you really think voting someone early, in an instant-majority game, without explaining yourself further than "let's get this wagon rolling" is a good townie way to play, I would hate to live in a town where you were in charge. The scum motivation for that kind of vote is totally clear.
Except I can unvote. And unvote. And vote for someone else. Why didnt you bring this up when I first did it if you thought it was objectively scummy?(it isnt.)
Okay i find none of this stuff convincing.
- the worst post in the thread is still persuasive to me. No matter how bad the attitude was, wanting to kill him for it is clearly scum motivated and not town motivated.
- i dunno about the analysis, i would at least have expected you to talk about why you specifically had your vote stolen or whether it was by scum or what. But I was more worried that you completely dropped it when no one responded. It's kind of a big deal ("your voice and your vote" or whatever the standard normal-game VT pm says)
- if you didn't really think ryan had scumslipped, why did you call it that? That's exactly what I accused you of doing earlier, just throwing out "hay guise its a scumslip" to see how everyone reacts.
- and your justification of your unexplained throwaway bandwagon vote is that you didn't really mean it? Okay then. not doing yourself any favors.
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On May 17 2013 00:04 Promethelax wrote:
I want to see this SnB/OO tiff play out. SnB, what do you think about the oats vote steal and what did occur if he is scum. I doubt a townie would use votesteal d1 since d1 wagons are a big part of how one analyses the game and taking away a vote from scum is awful.
Both OO and SnB want more from Shiro, don't we all.
SnB bringing up Chaoser is +1 in my book, where the hell is that guy? VE never followed up on me asking about him (though neither did I). VE, BH, prp and SnB (and maaaaybe hiro?)you guys have been around long enough to know Chaoser, I'd love some insight.
okay so this is the first thing that makes me really wonder about oatsmaster being scum. Let me break it down for you guys:
there are three possibilities here:
- oatsmaster's vote was stolen by some terrible townie who should be shot
- oatsmaster is scum
- OO is scum
I consider the first of these options extremely unlikely; much less likely than either of the other two. First, votesteal is almost a useless power for townies; and it's very weird that someone would've used it D1.
So let's say that oats's vote was stolen by scum; why didn't they use it to hammer OO? If he's town, it's free KP for them. Conclusion: he's scum.
On the other hand, we have the case where oat's vote wasn't stolen by scum or town. Well, clearly his vote didn't count yesterday? If his vote wasn't stolen, then that would have to mean that his vote was canceled for some other reason. By far the most likely case where that happens is the case where he's scum - there's a clear scum motivation for having your vote not count. You can jump on your teammates' bandwagons all you want; you can ignore attacks on your voting record by just saying "oh my vote was stolen"; and it makes you look townie if you can persuade people that your vote was stolen by the scum team.
So, I think we have a pretty good choice here. Between OO and Oats, I think we have a scum.
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On May 17 2013 03:25 Promethelax wrote:
What do you you think a out VE?
And you left out the last (and least likely) option: oats is ????, OO is town. Scum wanted another day wasted on lynching OO since they have two night kills (pretty sure about this, Vivax shooting vayne makes sense) a no lynch into no discussion lynch of the player from day one s a benefit to them.
i can talk about ve for a minute but i have an essay to write.
so here's the thing. i've seen ve play great games and i've seen him play terrible terrible games. so the "not living up to the rep" argument doesn't persuade me with him.
that said, his push on vayne looks terrible. poorly reasoned at first, and then when he went into more words about it, it was still poorly reasoned. vayne at the time didn't really look much different from other lurkers, eg shirokami or prplhz or whoever, i'm not going back through to figure it out. but the thing is, there were a bunch of players who all had exactly one scum read, were sheeping to get that scum read, and didnt really do anything to push it. That's not the kind of stuff i would expect from VE. makes me really hesitant to say that i think he's town.
on the other hand, i don't entirely see the comparison to your thing from that other game. or rather, i see it today out of ve, with the apology-for-not-reading post and the OO case which largely follows yours, but yesterday i see a different kind of bad play; the va case was atrocious, but unless i'm misremembering something it was original work out of ve. Plus there's the fact that he actually has been keeping up with the thread. I know you said your meta case wasn't based on activity, but that is a difference between that game and this game. At least his filter is decently longer than mine, and so far afaik no one's accused me of lurking or whatever.
plus it kind of helps that i feel his (and your, from before) case on oo. it's pretty clear that his martyring was opportunistic rather than genuine. while i think we've all seen frustrated townies martyr, when does a townie martyr as a tactic?
(aside: according to your ginormous list post, it looks like the reasons you think he's town are that he was making sense with some of his townreads and that he's been putting in more effort than you'd expect from him as scum. I can see where you're coming from but i don't see those points as super convincing, scum can always be good at townreads and for whatever reason oo appears to care enough about this game to tactically martyr, so i don't think putting in extra effort is out of the question for him.)
Anyway, here's the conclusion to this ramble. I think there is plenty of reason to be suspicious of VE, and if he doesn't come back with anything better, I would probably rank him as someone I would be okay with killing. However, I don't think the meta-case you quoted is as slam-dunk as you think it is, because I don't think VE completely fits that pattern. More importantly, I think we have a really good shot at hitting scum between OO and Oats. I suppose you're right that scum might have kept OO alive to fuck with town for an extra day, but I find that pretty unlikely; from a scum perspective, I think a mislynch is pretty much always better than a no-lynch, it gives plenty of ammo for them to go after the townies who pushed the mislynch plus it's free extra KP. If the vote really was stolen, I find it pretty unlikely that scum would've decided to waste it unless OO is scum. And if the vote wasn't really stolen, we get back to my analysis from above.
kk laters
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On May 17 2013 03:31 HiroPro wrote:Show nested quote +On May 17 2013 03:20 strongandbig wrote:On May 17 2013 00:04 Promethelax wrote:
I want to see this SnB/OO tiff play out. SnB, what do you think about the oats vote steal and what did occur if he is scum. I doubt a townie would use votesteal d1 since d1 wagons are a big part of how one analyses the game and taking away a vote from scum is awful.
Both OO and SnB want more from Shiro, don't we all.
SnB bringing up Chaoser is +1 in my book, where the hell is that guy? VE never followed up on me asking about him (though neither did I). VE, BH, prp and SnB (and maaaaybe hiro?)you guys have been around long enough to know Chaoser, I'd love some insight.
okay so this is the first thing that makes me really wonder about oatsmaster being scum. Let me break it down for you guys: there are three possibilities here:- oatsmaster's vote was stolen by some terrible townie who should be shot
- oatsmaster is scum
- OO is scum
I consider the first of these options extremely unlikely; much less likely than either of the other two. First, votesteal is almost a useless power for townies; and it's very weird that someone would've used it D1. So let's say that oats's vote was stolen by scum; why didn't they use it to hammer OO? If he's town, it's free KP for them. Conclusion: he's scum. On the other hand, we have the case where oat's vote wasn't stolen by scum or town. Well, clearly his vote didn't count yesterday? If his vote wasn't stolen, then that would have to mean that his vote was canceled for some other reason. By far the most likely case where that happens is the case where he's scum - there's a clear scum motivation for having your vote not count. You can jump on your teammates' bandwagons all you want; you can ignore attacks on your voting record by just saying "oh my vote was stolen"; and it makes you look townie if you can persuade people that your vote was stolen by the scum team. So, I think we have a pretty good choice here. Between OO and Oats, I think we have a scum. there's nothing about the politician that says they have to be mafia. it's entirely possible that they're town - i can think of at least two games that I've played in with a town politician. second, the deadline is at such a unusual time that even if the politician was mafia and obviousone was town, they simply might not have been around to move it from me to obvious. then there are some people in this game who seem to believe that it's better to lynch someone that's town than to have a no-lynch on d1, a mafia politician like that might even think it's a good idea to leave a town player alive.
okay this then essay
(1) yes its possible that there is a town politician, its also unlikely. then, if the politician is town, its also unlikely that they would use their power on D1, since that pretty much only hurts town. two unlikely situations -> yes it's possible but i'm comfortable discounting it unless someone claims compulsive town politician or something.
(2) if mafia had a stolen vote, i think it's pretty likely that at least one of them would have been around for deadline, or that they would've sent a conditional pm to ace, or something. possible, but much less likely than that either oo or oats is scum.
(3) i talked about the mafia maybe wanting a no lynch thing above, i also think that's improbable.
you have to remember, we already have compelling reasons for thinking either or both of oo/oats are scum, the votesteal thing is just the icing on the cake
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Hummm. I'll read all this stuff About hero when I get into work in a few hours but what I want to know now is from VE what do you think about my speculation on the obvious one/oatsmaster split? I still think it's really likely that one of them is, I mean I guess I can kind of see the argument some people have been putting forward about why I know Lynch helps them but I still think I missed lunch on day one helps more there's plenty of people they could've been pushing after a myslynch. It's not like 00 has been the main focus of today anyway and so I still think it's pretty likely that either one or the other is scum, for the reasons I talked about above.
I guess I'm also curious to hear from Prome what impact this new VE stuff has on his case on him. like it seems outside of the normal scum Ve meta but that could just be him trying to get out of the case? but it looks pretty genuine? so I want to hear what prome has to say. Since I wasn't totally convinced before, I'm still not feeling scum-VE now, but I do want to hear more from promethelax.
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Sorry if that was kind of stream of consciousness I'm still kind groggy and dictating this on the phone
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Prome, i dont see a straight up scumslip in his filter. there's some stuff that could be interpreted as comign from a scum mindset (see below in spoiler), or could be seen as a scumslip if you already thought he was scum, but i dont see anything that's a straight up revelation of extra information
+ Show Spoiler +On May 17 2013 03:31 HiroPro wrote:Show nested quote +On May 17 2013 03:20 strongandbig wrote:On May 17 2013 00:04 Promethelax wrote:
I want to see this SnB/OO tiff play out. SnB, what do you think about the oats vote steal and what did occur if he is scum. I doubt a townie would use votesteal d1 since d1 wagons are a big part of how one analyses the game and taking away a vote from scum is awful.
Both OO and SnB want more from Shiro, don't we all.
SnB bringing up Chaoser is +1 in my book, where the hell is that guy? VE never followed up on me asking about him (though neither did I). VE, BH, prp and SnB (and maaaaybe hiro?)you guys have been around long enough to know Chaoser, I'd love some insight.
okay so this is the first thing that makes me really wonder about oatsmaster being scum. Let me break it down for you guys: there are three possibilities here:- oatsmaster's vote was stolen by some terrible townie who should be shot
- oatsmaster is scum
- OO is scum
I consider the first of these options extremely unlikely; much less likely than either of the other two. First, votesteal is almost a useless power for townies; and it's very weird that someone would've used it D1. So let's say that oats's vote was stolen by scum; why didn't they use it to hammer OO? If he's town, it's free KP for them. Conclusion: he's scum. On the other hand, we have the case where oat's vote wasn't stolen by scum or town. Well, clearly his vote didn't count yesterday? If his vote wasn't stolen, then that would have to mean that his vote was canceled for some other reason. By far the most likely case where that happens is the case where he's scum - there's a clear scum motivation for having your vote not count. You can jump on your teammates' bandwagons all you want; you can ignore attacks on your voting record by just saying "oh my vote was stolen"; and it makes you look townie if you can persuade people that your vote was stolen by the scum team. So, I think we have a pretty good choice here. Between OO and Oats, I think we have a scum. there's nothing about the politician that says they have to be mafia. it's entirely possible that they're town - i can think of at least two games that I've played in with a town politician. second, the deadline is at such a unusual time that even if the politician was mafia and obviousone was town, they simply might not have been around to move it from me to obvious. then there are some people in this game who seem to believe that it's better to lynch someone that's town than to have a no-lynch on d1, a mafia politician like that might even think it's a good idea to leave a town player alive. On May 17 2013 04:06 HiroPro wrote:Show nested quote +On May 17 2013 03:59 strongandbig wrote:On May 17 2013 03:31 HiroPro wrote:On May 17 2013 03:20 strongandbig wrote:On May 17 2013 00:04 Promethelax wrote:
I want to see this SnB/OO tiff play out. SnB, what do you think about the oats vote steal and what did occur if he is scum. I doubt a townie would use votesteal d1 since d1 wagons are a big part of how one analyses the game and taking away a vote from scum is awful.
Both OO and SnB want more from Shiro, don't we all.
SnB bringing up Chaoser is +1 in my book, where the hell is that guy? VE never followed up on me asking about him (though neither did I). VE, BH, prp and SnB (and maaaaybe hiro?)you guys have been around long enough to know Chaoser, I'd love some insight.
okay so this is the first thing that makes me really wonder about oatsmaster being scum. Let me break it down for you guys: there are three possibilities here:- oatsmaster's vote was stolen by some terrible townie who should be shot
- oatsmaster is scum
- OO is scum
I consider the first of these options extremely unlikely; much less likely than either of the other two. First, votesteal is almost a useless power for townies; and it's very weird that someone would've used it D1. So let's say that oats's vote was stolen by scum; why didn't they use it to hammer OO? If he's town, it's free KP for them. Conclusion: he's scum. On the other hand, we have the case where oat's vote wasn't stolen by scum or town. Well, clearly his vote didn't count yesterday? If his vote wasn't stolen, then that would have to mean that his vote was canceled for some other reason. By far the most likely case where that happens is the case where he's scum - there's a clear scum motivation for having your vote not count. You can jump on your teammates' bandwagons all you want; you can ignore attacks on your voting record by just saying "oh my vote was stolen"; and it makes you look townie if you can persuade people that your vote was stolen by the scum team. So, I think we have a pretty good choice here. Between OO and Oats, I think we have a scum. there's nothing about the politician that says they have to be mafia. it's entirely possible that they're town - i can think of at least two games that I've played in with a town politician. second, the deadline is at such a unusual time that even if the politician was mafia and obviousone was town, they simply might not have been around to move it from me to obvious. then there are some people in this game who seem to believe that it's better to lynch someone that's town than to have a no-lynch on d1, a mafia politician like that might even think it's a good idea to leave a town player alive. okay this then essay (1) yes its possible that there is a town politician, its also unlikely. then, if the politician is town, its also unlikely that they would use their power on D1, since that pretty much only hurts town. two unlikely situations -> yes it's possible but i'm comfortable discounting it unless someone claims compulsive town politician or something. (2) if mafia had a stolen vote, i think it's pretty likely that at least one of them would have been around for deadline, or that they would've sent a conditional pm to ace, or something. possible, but much less likely than that either oo or oats is scum. (3) i talked about the mafia maybe wanting a no lynch thing above, i also think that's improbable. you have to remember, we already have compelling reasons for thinking either or both of oo/oats are scum, the votesteal thing is just the icing on the cake we'll see, but i'm not really convinced. also, ace would very likely not be ok with "(2)": Show nested quote +First and foremost if you signed up for this game, there was a clear warning to read Death Factory Mafia 1. You know this is a real time game. As with every game of Mafia if you aren't around there is nothing to be done. Tough shit. The nature of this game doesn't change that as games with Day kills and Majority Lynch work the same way.
There was also another issue I should mention. My name is not Ver. My name is not Incognito. I don't know what they did to allow Mafia players to send in PMs for their buddies and use their powers in other games. I don't give a shit. I'm Ace. I very rarely allow players to use INDIVIDUAL Scum Powers as a group. That's pretty ridiculous as in a real time game if any of the 5 Scum players are online they can just willy nilly screw shit up. On May 17 2013 09:00 HiroPro wrote:
to be honest, this game is kind of silly. i still haven't gone through viscera's posts but we literally cannot win (since we won't be able to get lynches) unless one of chaoser/bill/sinani is mafia.
Unless you're talking about this, in which case I think you missed the part after the snip:
On May 16 2013 10:11 HiroPro wrote:
What reasons are there for a town player to outright follow another player just based on who they are?
(snip)
There is a good reason for mafia to do this kind of play though: avoiding responsibility.
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On May 18 2013 00:20 kushm4sta wrote:
Well you can't meta me because it's been forever since I've rolled scum.
If I cloned myself I could totally tell if I were scum, so I am readable without meta. But I can see how people could view me as unreadable. The problem is that SOOO many town have died and no scum have died. I think we have to kill scum today, and killing me would be a huge crapshoot.
wow this is like the worst argument ever
this is like the drazerk argument
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On May 18 2013 00:31 WaveofShadow wrote:
ohai guise.
Alright first things first: BH is your vote pn prplhz really productive? I agree that while his case on kush makes sense, it's stupid to try and deal with him normally because kush is just fucking kush. Are you somehow sure that prplhz is scum trying to push an easy mislynch on lynchbait or something just because he didn't follow your earlier directives on a kush case? I'd also be concerned because he is clearly trying to push a new wagon with 12h to go adding risk to another no-lynch I suppose....
VE: totes town. Alright maybe not totes but leaning towards such at the moment so I'm not voting him. Part 2 of his Hiro case is intriguing (Oats makes a point, why can't Hiro and I both be scum?). Prom I'm sorry for this because self-boner time, but whenever someone agrees with my conspiracy theories that people are out to frame me it worries me, because most of the time it's people like Prom telling me not to be a dumbass (even though I have been right multiple times). I'm just getting this out there because overall I'm going to trust VE that he's using his brain on this.
Going to look into my promised reads on Hiro/Prom/BH now. Will vote once I'm finished. Once again, no one seems to suspect Oats enough to vote him aside from me, so
##Unvote
i do T_T
but i dont think we're gonna be able to get him lynched, so i support you unvoting him.
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that could only be a scumslip if he knew they were going to be modkilled too, but it didn't seem like that, it seemed more like he thought they would be modkilled after the end of day 1 and then they weren't. Anyway, my problem with calling it a "scumslip" is that it doesn't necessarily signal that he had extra information, there are other interpretations.
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On May 18 2013 00:36 WaveofShadow wrote:
SnB, who is scum?
- one (or both) of oats and OO, most likely oats imo (for reasons look earlier in my filter)
- I'm finding it harder and harder to believe that shirokami is town. Like, if he just wasn't posting at all, that's one thing; but he has a three page filter, without actually having said much of anything. I have a three page filter, three pages is plenty of attention to the thread to have made an impact. He hasn't.
- Still think there's a chance of VE being scum, but he's sounding a lot more town than he was before. For my full thoughts on VE, there's a big post from me up above in the thread.
- okay now we come to the hiropro question. give me a few minutes to figure out where i stand on that one and read his filter and stuff.
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On May 18 2013 01:57 strongandbig wrote:- one (or both) of oats and OO, most likely oats imo (for reasons look earlier in my filter) - I'm finding it harder and harder to believe that shirokami is town. Like, if he just wasn't posting at all, that's one thing; but he has a three page filter, without actually having said much of anything. I have a three page filter, three pages is plenty of attention to the thread to have made an impact. He hasn't. - Still think there's a chance of VE being scum, but he's sounding a lot more town than he was before. For my full thoughts on VE, there's a big post from me up above in the thread. - okay now we come to the hiropro question. give me a few minutes to figure out where i stand on that one and read his filter and stuff.
So on hiro
First, I find VE's original case only moderately convincing. Summarizing his points with my comments:
- Hiro asks a lot of questions that don't help find scum
--- that's true, and there is a scum motivation for doing this, but chaoser was doing the same thing and flipped town; this could be a townie trying and failing to be a 'leader' type
- Hiro is wrong about some theory (whether scum or town explain their actions)
--- okay whatever not a scum tell unless you can connect it to scum motivated behavior.
- Hiro's case on vivax was poorly reasoned
--- okay also true but not necessarily a scum tell
So from VE's original case we have some circumstantial evidence or scummy behavior, but nothing really strong.
I actually like Sloosh's point here a lot better:
On May 17 2013 14:49 slOosh wrote:I also agree with his lynch choice of HiroPro. He fits the Day 1 heuristic very tightly. The core of his day 1 play revolved around ObviousOne, but totally drops it with no explanation, and picks up the new thread sentiment of VE, and the rest of his posts seemed more concerned with mechanics explanations, but not with the intent of finding scum. Show nested quote +On May 17 2013 03:03 HiroPro wrote:
I'm not interested in killing ObviousOne right now. i'll decide who to lynch later when I have time to read. probably viscera, but we'll see. Show nested quote +On May 17 2013 03:31 HiroPro wrote:
there's nothing about the politician that says they have to be mafia. it's entirely possible that they're town - i can think of at least two games that I've played in with a town politician. second, the deadline is at such a unusual time that even if the politician was mafia and obviousone was town, they simply might not have been around to move it from me to obvious. then there are some people in this game who seem to believe that it's better to lynch someone that's town than to have a no-lynch on d1, a mafia politician like that might even think it's a good idea to leave a town player alive.
these are much stronger reasons to suspect someone.
- mechanics focus is a great way for scum to hide
- following thread sentiment. we all know the point here.
Then we've got VE's NK analysis about the Vivax death. not conclusive, not even very strong on its own, but the logic is valid. So this adds another piece of 'circumstantial evidence' to the puzzle.
Then we've got WoS attacking hiro's vote post on VE. This is also a decent point - his vote post is just rehashing stuff other people said (specifically prome) AND he raises three bullet points of which none are strongly attached to scum motivation. Another piece of the puzzle.
So what we have here is a preponderance of circumstantial evidence. I guess the best point, imo, is the one sloosh raises about the weird change in orientation.
All of that taken together, I am willing to
##vote: hiropro
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On May 17 2013 20:49 strongandbig wrote:
Hummm. I'll read all this stuff About hero when I get into work in a few hours but what I want to know now is from VE what do you think about my speculation on the obvious one/oatsmaster split? I still think it's really likely that one of them is scum, I mean I guess I can kind of see the argument some people have been putting forward about why I know Lynch helps them but I still think I missed lunch on day one helps more there's plenty of people they could've been pushing after a myslynch. It's not like 00 has been the main focus of today anyway and so I still think it's pretty likely that either one or the other is scum, for the reasons I talked about above.
still waiting on this. although i guess ve hasn't really been around since the first time i posted this.
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grush how much do i have to post to not be "low profile"?
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On May 18 2013 05:53 Blazinghand wrote:
i like how you think that anything but voting prplhz wos or OO is a legit thing today
apparently a large number of people think voting for hiro is a legit thing today
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On May 18 2013 07:15 Blazinghand wrote:ok so there's two big things about prplhz, but only one that I consider seriously a thing I'm lynching him for. First, and this is the important one, prplhz is pushing a lynch on kush that he MUST know is bad. he has stated repeatedly that he thinks kush is objectively scummy, but refuses to give a complete meta read on him. If presented with evidence that kush is ALWAYS objectively scummy, reasonably you'd back off, make a meta read, claim a red check, or state you want to lynch him for policy reasons. If you don't do any of these, you haven't actually demonstrated that kush is scum and not town. If you're not interested in doing any of these, then you are not interested in finding out if kush is scum or not. Basically, prplhz wants to lynch kush. Why? Well, prplhz claims it's because he thinks kush is scummy, but it's completely clear that nothing kush is doing this game is scummier than normal kush play. Prplhz says "well, he's more self-focused this game!" but doesn't give the evidence to show this as a legitimate meta read. He doesn't even say he wants to policy lynch kush. Why is he voting kush? Because he doesn't want to take part in the serious discourse/wagons (OO, WoS, and for some reason VE and HiroPro) and by voting kush he looks like he's doing something. It's completely clear what's going on here-- prplhz is opting out of the town discourse by voting kush.
this case is terrible.
your case against prp boils down to "prp looks bad and his cases are bad! He's saying we should lynch kush because he looks bad but he always looks bad!"
BUT BH GUESS WHAT PRP ALWAYS LOOKS BAD AND HIS CASES ARE FREQUENTLY BAD
OMG ITS LIKE YOU ARE MAKING A CASE ON YOURSELF!
this whole thing is stupid. man up and vote for someone who is scum for actual *reasons* !
Check my filter, I go through a lot of them in a post I made. Or check VE, prome, and sloosh's posts about him.
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On May 18 2013 07:04 grush57 wrote:
##Unvote
grush what is the haps
do you no longer think hiro is scum? why? who do you want to kill instead? etcetera?
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On May 18 2013 07:51 VisceraEyes wrote:
Um...hello? Anyone around? Srs shit going on...wagon in jeopardy, shenanigan deadline approaching...
we gots like five hours
and you're not even voting hiro lol, what are you saying about "wagon in jeopardy" and "shenanigans"?
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EPT
