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On May 11 2013 00:19 kushm4sta wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2013 00:16 WaveofShadow wrote:On May 10 2013 23:58 kushm4sta wrote:On May 10 2013 23:51 WaveofShadow wrote:
Kush you of all people have absolutely no right to question what I am doing or why. ok then can someone else question WoS on why Hopeless' actions look townie? Can someone else ask Wos, what actions specifically look townie? Is it his megaposts full of townreads? Also can someone inform WoS that it looks like hopeless is going to get lynched today, and he should be your main focus atm. Pushing two suspects that no one is going to listen to is not helpful to the game right now. Kush, I don't give a shit if you've decided to be all supertown 2 weeks into the game; your push means nothing to me. If I find Hopeless scummy it will be because of something anyone but you did. LOL dude wtf. I'm not asking you to respect me or be convinced by me or anything. I'm just asking you why specifically is hopeless town.. My questions are about your own thoughts, not mine.
I don't think he's town, there are way too many things wrong with him to be town, but there's always that minute possibility that he really WAS just fucking lazy and sheeping onto all the wrong targets. Re-reading my own thoughts on him (I guess I should have written more of them down) I know there were town aspects to his play that I found but not enough to call him town and I honestly have no desire to re-re-read him right now.
I'm nearing that stage of the day where I just want to see a flip but I'm going to hold myself back because of Palmar and because of what happened last time people 'just wanted to see a flip.' (Which, oddly enough Kush you were a part of)
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On May 11 2013 00:08 kushm4sta wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2013 23:57 Hopeless1der wrote:
Palmar, your reasoning for GiygaS seems to come down to "some other townie said so". Makes me sad bro. When I flip town calling giygas scum, what happens? This is a wifom bomb. It doesn't make sense for town to say this, because town knows that being town doesn't make your reads right.
yeah so why does yamato's opinion on giggles make him town to Palmar? This argument goes both ways and is thoroughly inconclusive. By your logic we should be lynching Palmar, right kush?
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Also I meant to comment on Palmar's thoughts that if I were scum I'd be the best on TL in a long time.
Flattery will get you everywhere, sir, however I lament the future scumteam that has to put up with me on their side in my first game. EIther that or I just have to remember to act exactly how I did this game? trolololol
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On May 11 2013 00:11 WaveofShadow wrote:Show nested quote +On May 09 2013 01:25 WaveofShadow wrote:
Aw, here you go and actually put effort into something...I was so set to troll the rest of the night too.
I don't understand how you can exude such an attitude of complete confidence despite your performance this game; it's that arrogance that kush outlined that absolutely infuriates me, including your propensity to compltely ignore or shrug off those points from people you deem 'terrible' and either not worth your time or not worth listening to. (This may just be referring to me in this case, but it's an attitude I see from a few players on mafia, BC included. Ace appears to be an exception.)
Despite the fact that you see me and my cases as terrible, I've been right about quite a few things this game (though nobody appears to acknowledge this---yet you're constantly bringing up things YOU were right about), and I also know who the JK is, and have for a little while now. There are many things that I have contributed that simply get bypassed because my way of figuring out the game doesn't fit within the brackets of what you would determine to be 'good play' yet apparently achieves the same result (or in this case, BETTER results if people ever listened to me).
I was unsure about your case originally when I wrote it, but if you'd read it wasn't necessarily a case to get you lynched, it was merely a summation of my thoughts on you, some points and counterpoints, and then I literally said "I dunno guys, help me out." AND NOBODY DID. Town is a team, and no one can be sure of their own cases/reads all of the time, not even you, yet many people treat their reads as G-d's word to fucking Moses. It was an opening for you or anyone else to say: "your case is shit and here's why." "Or I agree for such and such reasons" But nobody did so I was left with my own thoughts echoing in my head.
I'm going to wipe all bias I have clean when I look into you over the next little bit, just as I did the first time. If you ignore it then despite what I find I will be pushing for your lynch tomorrow as I will therefore not be seeing you as an asset to town alive, only through the information gleaned by your death. Whether or not people listen to me on that will not matter to me. Whether or not you feel threatened by this does not matter to me. If you, or other people respond, perhaps we can actually begin to solve this game properly. I gave you ample warning Palmar, not only here, but in a couple posts after this I believe. You once again ignored my analysis of you, therefore you are my target. Just because you believe people are voting you for no reason doesn't make it true. You had plenty of opportunity to address my questions towards you as well as my case and you chose to ignore them once again. I will be taking that as a scum response, assuming you have no good answers to the questions I have posited.
I don't know what questions you're talking about. That's why I'm asking you to link them.
I responded to both the post you quoted and your original case:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=18530889
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=18531504
I cannot respond to accusations I don't know what are.. you're making this really hard for me. Just tell me what you want me to respond to.
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On May 11 2013 01:02 WaveofShadow wrote:
Also I meant to comment on Palmar's thoughts that if I were scum I'd be the best on TL in a long time.
Flattery will get you everywhere, sir, however I lament the future scumteam that has to put up with me on their side in my first game. EIther that or I just have to remember to act exactly how I did this game? trolololol
It's not flattery since I don't think you're scum.
to be honest, if I was scum I'd be amazed with myself right now.
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i will look at giygas later today. i haven't really thought about him at all.
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On May 11 2013 01:32 kushm4sta wrote:
i will look at giygas later today. i haven't really thought about him at all.
check out getmoript too please.
I know about the modconfirm thing, but he has some real bad stuff in his filter.
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On May 11 2013 01:22 Palmar wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2013 00:11 WaveofShadow wrote:On May 09 2013 01:25 WaveofShadow wrote:
Aw, here you go and actually put effort into something...I was so set to troll the rest of the night too.
I don't understand how you can exude such an attitude of complete confidence despite your performance this game; it's that arrogance that kush outlined that absolutely infuriates me, including your propensity to compltely ignore or shrug off those points from people you deem 'terrible' and either not worth your time or not worth listening to. (This may just be referring to me in this case, but it's an attitude I see from a few players on mafia, BC included. Ace appears to be an exception.)
Despite the fact that you see me and my cases as terrible, I've been right about quite a few things this game (though nobody appears to acknowledge this---yet you're constantly bringing up things YOU were right about), and I also know who the JK is, and have for a little while now. There are many things that I have contributed that simply get bypassed because my way of figuring out the game doesn't fit within the brackets of what you would determine to be 'good play' yet apparently achieves the same result (or in this case, BETTER results if people ever listened to me).
I was unsure about your case originally when I wrote it, but if you'd read it wasn't necessarily a case to get you lynched, it was merely a summation of my thoughts on you, some points and counterpoints, and then I literally said "I dunno guys, help me out." AND NOBODY DID. Town is a team, and no one can be sure of their own cases/reads all of the time, not even you, yet many people treat their reads as G-d's word to fucking Moses. It was an opening for you or anyone else to say: "your case is shit and here's why." "Or I agree for such and such reasons" But nobody did so I was left with my own thoughts echoing in my head.
I'm going to wipe all bias I have clean when I look into you over the next little bit, just as I did the first time. If you ignore it then despite what I find I will be pushing for your lynch tomorrow as I will therefore not be seeing you as an asset to town alive, only through the information gleaned by your death. Whether or not people listen to me on that will not matter to me. Whether or not you feel threatened by this does not matter to me. If you, or other people respond, perhaps we can actually begin to solve this game properly. I gave you ample warning Palmar, not only here, but in a couple posts after this I believe. You once again ignored my analysis of you, therefore you are my target. Just because you believe people are voting you for no reason doesn't make it true. You had plenty of opportunity to address my questions towards you as well as my case and you chose to ignore them once again. I will be taking that as a scum response, assuming you have no good answers to the questions I have posited. I don't know what questions you're talking about. That's why I'm asking you to link them. I responded to both the post you quoted and your original case: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=18530889http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=18531504I cannot respond to accusations I don't know what are.. you're making this really hard for me. Just tell me what you want me to respond to.
I don't understand exactly how you miss these, especially since you were around at the time I made them.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=404332¤tpage=259#5176
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=404332¤tpage=260#5185
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Oh and reading through my own filter I found something interesting. First of all, CC called geript scum of a while. Just mentioning that for when I eventually gather up the impetus to filter dive some more.
Second:
On April 25 2013 17:59 WaveofShadow wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2013 15:45 yamato77 wrote:
Oh, that's right, it was Shiao who dropped that hammer.
WOW, I forgot all about that bullshit.
I could lynch him just for that. Show nested quote +On April 25 2013 11:30 WaveofShadow wrote:
Alright ladies I remember reading through earlier and thinking 'it's fucking obvious Vivax masined a scum' who did he mason N1?
Oh fuck nvm now I remember BH posted it doesnt start till the day? it's all coming back. Ok.
Drinking lots of water B\M Imf ine.
I'm not voting for VE rihgt now I need lots more evidence than that 'cause like many others I jsut can't get a fucking handle on him.
I'm still up for Shiaopi or Sylencia, not 100% sure on CLarity; something he psoted seemed really town-motivated so I'd ideally want to look elsewhere. The hammer is honestly the worst thing I think shiaopi has going for him (amongst other things) I remember when I hammered in Ego at least I had dropped some suspicion onto Axle at some poitn during the day and discussed it somewhat; why the fuck as town would you hammer blindly like that> Lol even drunk I made a little sense. Reading for real now. Also I may or may not have loled at the reason you don't want to call me scum geript.
Blind hammer vote (which is essentially what Kush's vote on yamato was) without reasoning leads to scum.
Kush?
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Palmar summary:
Day 1: push Oats/Yamato
Day 2: push VE; sheep onto clarity
Day 3: push BC; sheep onto Sylencia
Day 4: obv lynch
Day 5: sheep on Ace
Day 6: push Yamato again
Day 7: get active under pressure
One of the things that Bugs told me after The Game was that it's not hard as scum to not get lynched even if you are under scrutiny. Without open and shut things you can always find a way to talk yourself out. This is exactly what Palmar's doing now. His voting record is complete shit. Palmar isn't this bad. He's claiming not-knowing, not having figured it out. He's flipped his opinion on so many people. Everything he's saying is complete bullshit. The real bottom line is that scum wouldn't be inactive now. Being inactive now is as close to a death sentence as anything else but everyone wants to equate it with that right now. Make the right choice and vote Palmar.
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The poblem is Hopeless's voting record is even worse as far as I can tell.
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On May 09 2013 03:22 WaveofShadow wrote:Alright some intersting minutiae: Show nested quote +On April 23 2013 09:58 Palmar wrote:On April 23 2013 09:53 Oatsmaster wrote:On April 23 2013 09:48 yamato77 wrote:
Yeah, Oats' return is not impressive. sorry for not writing a 5 page post THAT THIS DUDE IS SCUM. Can we lynch Ace? I would like to keep his streak of getting mislynched in like almost every game.(scumslip :o) apologize for calling me scum bitch. Show nested quote +On April 23 2013 10:16 Palmar wrote:
am I the hammer? Cause I fucking love hammering
##unvote
##vote Oatsmaster This looks strangely like a pattern. Same thing you did to Yamato but in fewer words. Apparently you really REALLY don't like being called scum. I am not sure whether or not this is alignment indicative, however; it would probably depend on whaether or not you've done this in other games and, as you've put it so often this game, cba. Also interesting that you chose to vote for yamato and Oats when they called you scum but not me.
I've explained a few times throughout the game that I did not really think Oats would flip scum. I had this idea that maybe it'd be best if I was somewhat useless and would survive through to later days due to the fact that I'm a cop.
Oats and Yamato didn't provide any reasoning at all. You provided a post that was actually in many cases correct, the problem was obviously that wherever you were correct you concluded me town, or inconclusive.
I've said this repeatedly. I have no issues with being called scum when I can simply explain why I'm not. It's when people call me scum without any reasons that I get mad.
On May 09 2013 03:22 WaveofShadow wrote:Let's move on to Clarity. Show nested quote +On May 01 2013 03:57 WaveofShadow wrote:On April 23 2013 18:24 Palmar wrote:On April 23 2013 17:52 Clarity_nl wrote:
I wouldn't lynch him right now, no. Would want to hear from him first.
Don't have many full fledged opinions yet, but the people I was gonna look into next (that being tonight, have work soon) were gonna be giygas, bc and shiaopi (mainly because I don't remember much of them from reading through the thread) sup scum This one is a point FOR town Palmar becuase I can't see them making the decision to bus Clarity this early when he was actually active, unless they realized his play was so shitty he'd be going down immediately. Yep, it's a point for town me because you know.. I'm town. Generally townies do townie things. Now I once called this a point for a town Palmar but in the same post I say it could be a scummy thing to do if you recognized that Clarity's posting was shit and he was likely to be lynched. You ignored that part of it. Then there's this: Show nested quote +On May 02 2013 23:15 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On May 02 2013 23:11 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On May 02 2013 23:10 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On May 02 2013 23:08 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On May 02 2013 23:02 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
Thanks for confirming yourself as one of the final mafia artanis.
I stopped reading at the point of you claiming I never wanted Yamato lynched given how full of shit you are. Thanks for trying desperately to get me lynched though. Sick defense dude. ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/SrKdOdt.gif) only defend things worth defending yo. Not worth the time otherwise Good point. I'll stop replying to you until you actually read the case and try to refute it. I doubt that'll happen anyway, seems you've already resigned. Resigned? You apparently don't know me dude lol. How about you people who think I am mafia go back and read the games I have been mafia in. Bill Murray ran a game which is number 28 I believe that was imbalanced in favour of the town by extreme amounts and I led my team to victory quite successfully. I have bussed inactive teammates to ensure I was viewed as confirmed town, etc... If I was mafia this game I would have bussed my entire team that was inactive, made sure that I was the reason they died, and proceeded to off town systematically while being confirmed the entire way. Seems entirely possible that this is what was done. There are both town and scum points for this therefore I remove it as solely a town point for you.
The reason didn't push clarity was that at the time I didn't want to be a big factor in town, I was trying to survive to get some checks. If I push and lynch clarity day 1 I would definitely get shot. Now I still think I did get shot and that sharrant saved me, but that's another story.
The second part is I think misquoted, I think that was me saying it. But yeah, does it look to you like I bussed my entire team and took all the credit? The only dead scum I have any kind of credit for is clarity. I actually leaned town on shiaopi until the cop shenanigans and I pushed for lynching sylencia first.
So if you think I'm scum taking credit, I'm sure not doing a good job at it.
On May 09 2013 03:22 WaveofShadow wrote:Talking about ShiaoPi and VE: Show nested quote +Yeah, I thought VE was scum, and you agree he looked bad early. I still thought he was scum by this day, and by extension I gave shiaopi a probably town read, not a big deal. I can't be right on everything, and very often I miss under-the-radar scum. I like lynching VE, and I was willing to throw my weight behind a clarity lynch too. I don't think anyone expects you to be right on everything. Maybe, MAYBE I can accept that you were wrong about VE this far into the game, but any quick look into Shiao at all showed that he was NOT under the radar and looked objectively scummy all game. A pre-flip association based on your scumread of VE? That isn't good play no matter how you look at it. Combine this with the logic of bussing an inactive Clarity over an active Shiao, and your constant defending of Shiao when you defend NONE of your other townreads all game and this makes you look scummy. Very scummy.
Well yeah, my metric for VE was simply that inactive = scum. But clearly he was being cool this game and not taking the lead, just like I was, ironically.
The reason I thought Shiaopi was town was first off that I didn't think there were two scum-wagons going on. I thought the clarity one was the correct one, and the shiaopi one the shitty townie. I also sheeped reyn's read of shiaopi.
The reason I only defended shiaopi is that he's my only town-read that has actually come under heavy fire this game. I don't think I constantly defended him though, I mentioned that I thought he was town like once in response to a reyn analysis post, and then I used the fact that I thought CC and shia were town to justify lynching sylencia.
On May 09 2013 03:22 WaveofShadow wrote:Regarding your defense of accusations of Clarity bus: Show nested quote +No, this is the post where I agree that Clarity lynch is a good one and since I have a very strong case on him (the same reason I said "sup scum" to him on day 1, just articulated).
Think about it for a little while, if I'm scum palmar wouldn't I try to extract every little ounce of town-cred out of the clarity lynch? why would I bother with saying I still wanted to lynch VE? The truth is I thought VE was scum. I still think he was playing strange, but obviously his relative lack of leadership may have been, just like mine, based on his role. Do you think there is a hole in my reasoning for killing Clarity? Do you think this is fabricated evidence? Was it not new to the thread at the time I wrote it? Especially the part where I analyse his follow-up. You're right about this. I am not convinced however that the scum motivation isn't there. Clarity starts posting for hours before you return and call him scum. I could definitely see you, as the one mainly active (and arguably skilled) member of the scumteam coming back to the QT and going, WTF Clarity, you're dead and we're going to have to bus you for this. Your reasoning for killing him unfortunately very easily fits from both a town and scum perspective. Very easy to point out your scum-mates glaring mistakes. As for your extracting town-cred and blowing it on pushing VE, again that seems to me alignment-null on its own. Yes what are you saying could be true but it's also very easily true that you're trying to avoid completely flip-flopping on your read here to avoid looking scummier. Which to me since all you say is: "Still think VE is a good lynch" and then drop it amounts to the same thing as flip-flopping without a reason. More coming but I want to get some of this out just in case there is some chance in hell of me dying. [/quote]
Well I explained what's true, you can obviously through wifom interpret everything in the way you want, but I think it's pretty clear that this is not a made up reason, rather a figured out one.
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in addition I disagree that it's easy to point out scum mistakes. The reason is that it's hard to analytically read a post and reach a conclusion when you already know what the conclusion will be. It takes a lot of discipline to manufacture good correct reads as scum, just like it takes a lot of time to create good incorrect reads.
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On May 11 2013 03:20 Palmar wrote:
in addition I disagree that it's easy to point out scum mistakes. The reason is that it's hard to analytically read a post and reach a conclusion when you already know what the conclusion will be. It takes a lot of discipline to manufacture good correct reads as scum, just like it takes a lot of time to create good incorrect reads.
In some cases this is true, but I argue in Clarity's case it isn't true; the entire thread was basically jumping down his throat (except for me but I dumb I guess) with multiple reasons as to why he looked so scummy. Doesn't seem so difficult to me as scum to just pick one of a multitude here.
I also disagree that I'm 'finding the result I want to find through WIFOM.' You wanted me to look at both scum and town perspectives throughout my analysis of you and so I did; I am simply stating what I find to be more likely.
Anyway, continue.
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On May 11 2013 02:45 Palmar wrote:
The reason didn't push clarity was that at the time I didn't want to be a big factor in town, I was trying to survive to get some checks. If I push and lynch clarity day 1 I would definitely get shot. Now I still think I did get shot and that sharrant saved me, but that's another story.
I have an issue with this specifically Palmar. You said you didn't want to be a big factor and wanted to survive, yet by claiming your first check on me knowing sanities aren't confirmed you made yourself "big factor" in the town. I know you thought/think I am mafia, but given the potential chance for you to be bungling up a lynch + wanting to survive for multiple checks it seems odd that you'd insta claim the way you did.
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On May 10 2013 22:26 kushm4sta wrote:
Also do you guys believe in balance? I do. And what that means is even though hosts like you to think scumteams are random, they aren't. A scumteam in a big game like this is never full of newbies.
According to balance, either Palmar or BC must be scum.
This is not true whatsoever.
Hosts all balance differently and perceive player skill completely differently than other people do.
Keep in mind Bill Murray is as experienced if not more so than myself and has been playing for just as long pretty well. He is more experienced likely than Palmar. Yet is completely ignored and overall has done nothing this game.
I have no idea why you are trying to lynch Palmar off setup speculation. If we did shit based off that I would be lynching BM and TRN right now.
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As well as Palmar for setup speculation. Its why you don't use setup speculation as reasons to kill people.
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On May 11 2013 03:37 BloodyC0bbler wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2013 22:26 kushm4sta wrote:
Also do you guys believe in balance? I do. And what that means is even though hosts like you to think scumteams are random, they aren't. A scumteam in a big game like this is never full of newbies.
According to balance, either Palmar or BC must be scum. This is not true whatsoever. Hosts all balance differently and perceive player skill completely differently than other people do. Keep in mind Bill Murray is as experienced if not more so than myself and has been playing for just as long pretty well. He is more experienced likely than Palmar. Yet is completely ignored and overall has done nothing this game. I have no idea why you are trying to lynch Palmar off setup speculation. If we did shit based off that I would be lynching BM and TRN right now.
Thinking about this, though, I believe (if I didn't before) that the remaining scum must be congratulated on their play this game.
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Not really when they have me to hide behind. That and the triple cop caper...
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P.S. kill me or giggles please.
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EPT
