EPTTL Mafia LXI - Page 260
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Palmar
Iceland22632 Posts
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Artanis[Xp]
Netherlands12968 Posts
Do you still suspect BC given the flip? | ||
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Palmar
Iceland22632 Posts
I can tell you who I think should not be considered... if you think that helps? | ||
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Artanis[Xp]
Netherlands12968 Posts
On May 09 2013 03:50 Palmar wrote: I'm not sure, I need to make more reads. I can tell you who I think should not be considered... if you think that helps? Well, you're on my list of people who should be considered, so do go ahead. | ||
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WaveofShadow
Canada31494 Posts
as far as I understood the mason topic lasted 72 hours, and I think those were up. And yeah, you were at the time firmly in my scum/null group, but I wasn't really pursuing it at the time. I think I was pretty involved during the night you claimed miller, and if I recall correctly, I realized that your claim made sense and looked genuine. Now put yourself in scum-palmar's shoes. You basically have what equals to a guilty cop-check on your head and I could tunnel that until you die, hell I even gave you some shit for not being super-townie since you were a self-aware miller (though I do very much agree with your play of not claiming it at the start). But no, because I'm not actually scum, I just stepped back, looked at how you claimed and how you reacted to the pressure and decided you were town. I actually did the same thing yesterday, but yamato self-hammered in rage after quoting a post of mine where I was basically considering waffling on his lynch. What you say about my miller-claim rings true from a town-perspective. Much easier to call for my lynch and let me hang/get shot.Of course there's scum motivation for it too, though it's a bit of a stretch---if you knew or thought other people would lynch me then you could abstain and look towny. Especially since if there's one thing I'm good at in mafia it's not getting mislynched so my calling for a vig shot against myself (not knowing there are none), letting me get mislynched as per my reasoning might look wrose. This I wil admit is a little convoluted and unlikely but I figure I'd toss it out there anyway. It's the rest of this that bugs me; you say you did the same thing regarding yamato but in this case it's YOU putting on the pressure, not others, and though you say you were considering waffling, you didn't, and your vote helped lynch a towny whatever you might say. If you were so unsure why risk leaving him at L-1 and give him the chance to do what he did? (You probably weren't around at L-1 but my point stands: your vote was on him when you were unsure?) When I mention your buddying of VE based on your BC checks yes that is a case for you being town, but again you don't refute the scum motivation: yYou were wrong about VE, don't want to look scummy anymore and want to get another towny lynched under cover of another towny. The interaction between you and BC makes it extremely difficult for me to believe that you are both town. It's been argued 100 times that your claim makes absolutely zero sense and I don't think any explanation you've had for it thus far is good enough. It's one thing to be lazy, it's another thing to do something downright terrible. It doesn't make sense that you'd expect other people 'backing you' to do your work against BC for you when you had nothing to go on. Rayn is not good enough as far as 'thread sentiment' goes since he tunnels like crazy, often against wrong targets, no matter how towny he looked. Hell you could very well have been using this aspect of his personality to help push BC relentlessly without having to do it yourself, but that's just speculation. Again, thanks for making my case for me. Most importantly here is my belief that CC was town, I was almost certain that his claim was true, and I think I never had any scumvibes in the game for him, so to me I was pretty sure we'd either get a scumlynch or a lurkerlynch->scumlynch (which is what happened). Remember, scumpalmar would've KNOWN that shiaopi was scum, so your theory of multiple mislynches makes no sense if I'm scum. This and the example after it is probably the best example I can find of a strong point to your towniness and I'm not sure I can see scum PoV here that isn't REALLY stretching here. Can you explain a few outstanding details to me? Your conclusions from the conversation with BC? You said something about decisions being very one-sided and I'm not sure what that means. My question just earlier about yamato v me Your ignoring the agreed-upon check targets. If you don't check me tonight I have more reason to believe that you are scum. I'm not sure it was the wrong play to not lynch you earlier because 'mafia might off you; they don't want to risk you being insane and not paranoid.' It's easily possible you chose your 'check' targets very carefully so either could be true. Again, difficult for me to reach any hard conclusions with what I've written here but on the whole there is still much to your play that IS objectively scummy, whether you see it as such or not. For the record I also really don't like your dismissal of yamato; making sure to discredit everything he says as 'shitty logic,' at the same time as calling him scummy.This way even if you're proven wrong after the flip (as scum) you can still say 'well his logic was awful and therefore we can't listen to any of his reads.' I just keep finding more inconclusive shit I don't like about your play this game. If you were truly town why is there so goddamn much of it? | ||
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Palmar
Iceland22632 Posts
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WaveofShadow
Canada31494 Posts
On May 09 2013 01:56 Artanis[Xp] wrote: WoS, I was not interested in commenting on the thoughts at that time because I didn't want either Palmar or BC lynched yesterday. I also won't comment on it until night ends. I highly doubt anyone but the JK will die, but in case I randomly get shot, just sheep BM yo. He handsome~ Process of elimination real easy for mafia who didn't realize it much earlier. BM probably next mafia target. Anyway, Artanis I believe you promised some analysis. Palmar take your time. There's a lot that has gone into what I've written both in the past and now and I can see no reason why people (other than you two as well) should just ignore it as it will at least generate good discussion. | ||
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Artanis[Xp]
Netherlands12968 Posts
On May 09 2013 03:58 WaveofShadow wrote: Oh wow I missed the flip, derp. Ok well yeah, that was completely obvious, if not made more so by Artanis: Process of elimination real easy for mafia who didn't realize it much earlier. BM probably next mafia target. Anyway, Artanis I believe you promised some analysis. Palmar take your time. There's a lot that has gone into what I've written both in the past and now and I can see no reason why people (other than you two as well) should just ignore it as it will at least generate good discussion. I'm working on it on my own way. Have you missed me inquiring onto Palmar? | ||
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WaveofShadow
Canada31494 Posts
On May 09 2013 04:00 Artanis[Xp] wrote: I'm working on it on my own way. Have you missed me inquiring onto Palmar? Nope. Do you agree that either BC or Palmar have to die today? | ||
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Artanis[Xp]
Netherlands12968 Posts
On May 09 2013 04:02 WaveofShadow wrote: Nope. Do you agree that either BC or Palmar have to die today? I'm not going to expand on this until Palmar answers me whether he still suspects BC. I don't want to influence his answer. | ||
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Palmar
Iceland22632 Posts
On May 09 2013 04:02 WaveofShadow wrote: Nope. Do you agree that either BC or Palmar have to die today? This is not a good perspective to have, you're limiting your options. It's entirely possible BC is town, although I'm just not sure at the moment. For example, it's not implausible to think the remaining scum could be somewhere in stutters/giggles/hopeless. | ||
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Palmar
Iceland22632 Posts
On May 09 2013 04:03 Artanis[Xp] wrote: I'm not going to expand on this until Palmar answers me whether he still suspects BC. I don't want to influence his answer. You cannot influence my answer so don't worry about it. But it's gonna be a while as I'm going to read the entire filter of a few people, including BC | ||
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Artanis[Xp]
Netherlands12968 Posts
On May 09 2013 04:05 Palmar wrote: You cannot influence my answer so don't worry about it. But it's gonna be a while as I'm going to read the entire filter of a few people, including BC If you're scum, showing my hand could lead to you giving the desired answer. Therefore I'd rather not comment on it at this point. | ||
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WaveofShadow
Canada31494 Posts
A town Geript that isn't helping is scarcely a Geript at all. | ||
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Palmar
Iceland22632 Posts
On May 09 2013 04:07 Artanis[Xp] wrote: If you're scum, showing my hand could lead to you giving the desired answer. Therefore I'd rather not comment on it at this point. That's entirely up to you, I just don't want the progress of discussion to be hindered waiting on what I have to say. Even if you think I'm scum, does it look like I've been saying things and giving opinions to please people this game? | ||
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Palmar
Iceland22632 Posts
On May 09 2013 04:08 WaveofShadow wrote: Personally I kind of want to lynch geript for no other reason than he has been a non-factor all game, and that is not how Geript plays, town OR scum. In The Game (scum) he was extremely active with the help of his scumteam: making plays, editing and checking his stuff. Him being afraid to post as scum with an inactive/bad scumteam would fit, though I would argue that in that case you/BC would have to be town for that to be true (unless you were seriously lonewolfing it). How much credence do people put into 'mod-confirmed town?' A town Geript that isn't helping is scarcely a Geript at all. I've said it multiple times that he may be the scummiest person in the thread, he's simply riding his confirm, which basically makes this game stupid to deal with. I thought he should've been modkilled at the time, but whatever. I would love to lynch him for being an asshole, but I'm not sure it's the best idea. | ||
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WaveofShadow
Canada31494 Posts
Sigh. I know focus should not be put on him today but while I wait for Palmar and the rest of the thread to show up I figure I'll shit something out. | ||
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Artanis[Xp]
Netherlands12968 Posts
On May 09 2013 04:08 WaveofShadow wrote: Personally I kind of want to lynch geript for no other reason than he has been a non-factor all game, and that is not how Geript plays, town OR scum. In The Game (scum) he was extremely active with the help of his scumteam: making plays, editing and checking his stuff. Him being afraid to post as scum with an inactive/bad scumteam would fit, though I would argue that in that case you/BC would have to be town for that to be true (unless you were seriously lonewolfing it). How much credence do people put into 'mod-confirmed town?' A town Geript that isn't helping is scarcely a Geript at all. Could just be a demotivated geript that was looking forward to being shadowed by marv only to get bullshit his way. It's worth looking into his filter though. On May 09 2013 04:08 Palmar wrote: That's entirely up to you, I just don't want the progress of discussion to be hindered waiting on what I have to say. Even if you think I'm scum, does it look like I've been saying things and giving opinions to please people this game? You haven't been in serious risk of lynching yet. You probably will be today. The past is no guarantee of the future. | ||
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Palmar
Iceland22632 Posts
The problem I had with yamato's read was that it was based on absolutely nothing, whereas your case is based on multiple speculations that are often lacking or inconclusive. I think I summarized it well with this question: On May 07 2013 02:08 Palmar wrote: So given that you actually understand this narrative, what has changed your mind must be the fact that I did not send in a check last night. Now, explain how that, specifically, makes me mafia. If you cannot, you're full of shit. to which he responded: On May 07 2013 03:05 yamato77 wrote: I highly doubt that you're town. Just because you're not objectively scummy doesn't mean you aren't mafia. And that just set me off. Also, yamato was doing a better job of controlling the thread than you. | ||
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Artanis[Xp]
Netherlands12968 Posts
On May 09 2013 04:14 Palmar wrote: re: you versus yamato The problem I had with yamato's read was that it was based on absolutely nothing, whereas your case is based on multiple speculations that are often lacking or inconclusive. I think I summarized it well with this question: to which he responded: And that just set me off. Also, yamato was doing a better job of controlling the thread than you. I can't tell if you're playing dumb or if you still don't know. | ||
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