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On March 30 2013 13:12 ObviousOne wrote:The case is here, but it comes in N1 since he was certain Nisani was scum before the flip: + Show Spoiler [acro case on ISH] +On March 28 2013 07:34 Acrofales wrote:Smurf:3 particular things make him scum: 1. Show nested quote +On March 26 2013 12:37 InsertSmurfHere wrote:
Is he an idiot as town, too?
From your filter, that is what I surmise is your opinion of him already. If that's the case, I guess you're content to let him lurk away the rest of day 1 as he intends?
Or...? If Smurf is Yamato, he has played at least 2 games with a town DI (British 1 and Personality 2) and thus cannot simply claim ignorance of how DI plays as town. Even if he can be forgiven the remarkable oversight of not looking at DI's townplay, his excuse of ignorance here is a lie. 2. His scumreads: All 3 of his scumreads throughout the game: Grackaroni, Cora and Nisani. I painted Cora green, because I doubt this is a power play by the scumteam to claim mason. However, most strikingly, look how easily he jumps onto the Nisani is scum wagon. He never even mentions Nisani as a scumread until his completely irrational defense of prplhz (see point 3), when this suddenly happens: + Show Spoiler [prplhz town] +On March 27 2013 15:04 InsertSmurfHere wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2013 14:49 Hapahauli wrote:On March 27 2013 14:47 InsertSmurfHere wrote:On March 27 2013 14:35 Hapahauli wrote:
If anything, Nomination Mini supports my case. If you think low activity is alignment indicative out of prplhz, you're wrong. While it's true that he's done little this game, he isn't acting trollish or distant with town when he is posting, as he does normally when he's mafia. He posts little and rarely as both alignments. Have you read prplzh filter? Go and read it, then get back to me and tell me he's not "distant." I've heard of a ton of meta arguments, but this is the most retarded one. Prplzh has posted next to nothing, has soft-pushed half the thread, hasn't made a single original contribution, and somehow you arrive at the fact that he's not scum. It's quite easy. Read yamato's analysis of prplhz's meta from Nomination. When you look at his filter from LIX, it is blatantly antagonistic with town and completely uninvolved. Do these posts read trollish to you? Show nested quote +On March 27 2013 05:09 prplhz wrote:@sinani206 Why haven't you been playing mafia for ages and what made you suddenly come back to this game? @Acrofales What you think about Palmar? What did Nisani201 say to make you think that he is scum? Just a line or two, I'm not a big fan of huge posts. And yes, I did read your filter so please bear with me if there was something I didn't understand and say it one more time  @InsertSmurfHere On March 26 2013 23:38 InsertSmurfHere wrote:
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Prplhz I have seen be lurky early as town, but by the end of day 1 I expect to know his alignment. He's good enough as town to put forth effort justifying his suspicions.
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That can't be true unless you're like ... no, that can't be true. Show nested quote +On March 27 2013 11:19 prplhz wrote:On March 27 2013 11:16 Grackaroni wrote:On March 27 2013 11:12 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Nobody is going to vote OO/Oats/Smurf either way whatever i say. And Grack has not dona anythig useful. I would be okay switching into one of those three or Nisani/prplhz, but nobody is going to listen to me anyways so what the hell. Better to trust people i trust are town then. lol see what the hell is this. I thought he was town but nobody is going to listen to me so now I'll just vote for town. Some people do that when they get frustrated. I think he's frustrated and that's why he's doing it. @Palmar Why is Acrofales town? Show nested quote +On March 27 2013 11:29 prplhz wrote:
If anybody else knows why Acrofales is town I'm also interested in their answers. Here he's clearly following a line of thought with a few people. While his interaction is minimal, it is far from being distant. This does not read like the mafia prplhz I know. What concerns me about all this is how lazy you are with this push on prplhz. I really think you don't know him well if you think low activity = scum in his case. What is MOST concerning, however, is how easily Nisani jumps in with you. Observe: Show nested quote +On March 27 2013 12:41 Nisani201 wrote:
I don't understand why we're still taking about this meta stuff. Just because OO’s play style is different in this game than another doesn't make him scum. In fact, it means absolutely nothing.
I agree that prplhz has been flying under the radar and he could be scum. I want to hear other's thoughts on it though. Show nested quote +On March 27 2013 13:10 Nisani201 wrote:
Alright, throwing my vote on prplhz.
Not gonna do the ## thing here though because I'm on my tablet. Two posts, barely mentions prplhz, and he's on the wagon. Regardless of prplhz's alignment, this looks terrible. He's even less concerned with figuring out the game than prplhz appears to be. So... the MOST concerting part of the prplhz case is how easily Nisani jumps on the wagon. So suddenly Nisani has been bombarded to scum, as part of the whole prplhz = town crusade. From that point onwards he never even questions anything else and just blindly wants to lynch Nisani. 3. Irrational defense of prlhz. I would quote posts, but it shat up the thread for about 3 pages. I don't even think this says anything about prplhz's alignment. I can see a scum doing this for a townie (defend the innocent for townie points, when no scumbuddy is in danger of being lynched) or a scumbuddy (given that the alternative at the time was my push on Nisani, which he promptly sheeped he could have been defending his buddy), but the whole thing feels like Smurf had made up his mind before even starting to post on what prplhz's alignment was and was going to defend that stance to the death. And while some of the points he made make sense, when I looked at prplhz's filter at the time, it just read like a scum filter, so it's the complete lack of DOUBT about the alignment that strikes me. That is not the critical mindset of a townie.
TLDR: lied to excuse his shoddy case, no critical mindset when analysing players and has only wanted to lynch townies. Verdict: scum. Now lets move onto everybody else. (okay, it's technically not d1)
Right. That was n1, after a bunch of people had already started calling Smurf scum.
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On March 30 2013 13:13 Keirathi wrote:Show nested quote +On March 30 2013 13:06 ObviousOne wrote:
Did I have it backwards? There's a nugget somehow related to my erroneous presentation. Smurf was not on Acro d1 but Acro was on Smurf D1? Need to go verify this in filters in a moment. If it was the case that Acro was on Smurf D1 then that's what I was trying to say. I opened both filters briefly to look and that might be why I got all mucked up. If that's still wrong then I don't even know what I was thinking. I blame my Warcraft addiction =[ Neither of them were attacking each other day 1. Not sure what you're talking about  Acro mentioned Smurf a few times early in day 1, but never followed up on it and never even called him scum, just questioned him a couple of times. Then during night 1, Acro made his case on Smurf, and then Smurf countered it and started pushing Acro.
Yeah he was more certain on Nisani, so that looks like why he waited to move on to Smurf.
+ Show Spoiler [some quotes from smurf after D1 ended] +On March 29 2013 03:38 InsertSmurfHere wrote:
Still don't like Keir/Cora, but whatever, Cora tunnels me all fucking day every fucking game, so I'll ignore them for the time being. It's lylo-type stuff anyway, with their claim and all.
Acro smells like mafia. You can say his play is different from Personality, but his read on me is simply an echo of things people have said before at an opportune time to throw all kinds of suspicion on me in the midst of you calling for my head tomorrow. I want to look more into the Nisani/Acro ordeal and actually figure out what was going on there, because his town flip makes me more inclined to think Acro might actually be mafia who OMGUS'd a townie.
You guys are talking a lot about SNB, and it is true that he is far less townish than I read him at a similar point in time during personality. I've never experienced scum SNB, but I'll take my look at some of those games out of curiosity when I have time later, and make my own decision.
I am also taking an interest in rayn, because I'm not sure where his reads are at right now, and I feel like he's in a group of players who really didn't do a whole lot day 1 but push a single read and then consolidate with town in the end.
Dandel looked better to me earlier, but his general disinterest in town's affairs and his lackadaisical mafia read of me concerns me. At first it felt like he was just OMGUSing me out of surprise, but he's stuck with it and not done much else, which is quite bad. Under no pressure, he fails to even engage in the thread beyond one-liners and calling me/snb scum, so the possibility exists that he is just lurky mafia riding off the back of everyone calling him likely-town in response to my case on him. And the one from before: On March 29 2013 03:55 InsertSmurfHere wrote:
Town:
Prplhz
Hapa
Palmar
Oats
OO
Null:
Rayn
Marv
Sinani
SNB
Mafia:
Acro
Dandel
Ignore:
Cora/Keir
Yes, I'm going to ignore them. I'm suspicious of them, but do you really want me going around tomorrow making cases on Corazon, the claimed mason? Waste of time, even if I am right. No one is going to listen to me.
The difference between Acro and prplhz is that you don't read prplhz by how "objectively scummy" he is, while you can certainly do that with a more active and engaged person like Acro. Meta matters more in prplhz' case.
And yes, Dandel is possibly mafia. While it apparently isn't "satifying" to you, it's how I view him at this point, because of how little he's done since all of what went on. Did I not specifically tell you this might happen, should he not be put under pressure?
Rayn did push OO, and that's about it. It was a hard push, but I'm nowhere near convinced that the guy is mafia. As you guys have been pointing out, a look into the last game he played as mafia gives you the impression that he struggles to post as mafia, which is nothing like the impression I get from his filter here. He is giving a clear effort, and is actually looking into objectively good things to be looking at, like the Nisani/Acro ordeal.
Acro's post comes shortly after the flip, Smurfs a few hours before night was over.
So let's look at Smurf's line of thinking on Acro. Distilled down he claims that Acro's vote can be summarized as OMGUS. Is that necessarily a mafia tell? Doesn't this also read like OMGUS?
Smurf's read on prplhz in that second post is also wishy-washy on Dandel. So... I'm not convinced he believes either one is mafia.
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Also, WoW has inexplicably crashed twice on me within an hour and I'm sick of dealing with it so you have my full attention for now.
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On March 30 2013 13:24 ObviousOne wrote:
Smurf's read on prplhz in that second post is also wishy-washy on Dandel.
Huh?
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He said possible. Imply some doubt. I guess if you look only at the list what I wrote doesn't make sense.
And yes, Dandel is possibly mafia. While it apparently isn't "satifying" to you, it's how I view him at this point, because of how little he's done since all of what went on. Did I not specifically tell you this might happen, should he not be put under pressure?
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I was just curious who you were actually talking about.
You said "Smurf's read on prplhz" was wishy-washy on Dandel.
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Oh sorry I just titled the spoiler tag. My bad
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Anyways, explain where you're going with this, and I'll see if I agree. Because I'm honestly a bit lost.
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My list had 6 names. Of the 6, 4 remain. Between Acro and Smurf I preferred Arco earlier. I didn't like how our conversation ended abruptly yesterday and I thought he might be going down quietly as mafia. However in looking at N2 in its entirety and considering that Acro made a case on smurf first, I don't see a reason for that to happen if both are mafia. Acro had suspicions D1 on Smurf, and Smurf's platform against Acro is that Acro Omgus'd Nisani when in fact this very platform against Acro is omgus itself.
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On March 30 2013 13:47 ObviousOne wrote:
My list had 6 names. Of the 6, 4 remain. Between Acro and Smurf I preferred Arco earlier. I didn't like how our conversation ended abruptly yesterday and I thought he might be going down quietly as mafia. However in looking at N2 in its entirety and considering that Acro made a case on smurf first, I don't see a reason for that to happen if both are mafia. Acro had suspicions D1 on Smurf, and Smurf's platform against Acro is that Acro Omgus'd Nisani when in fact this very platform against Acro is omgus itself.
Ah okay. That makes sense.
So you don't think Acro and Smurf are scum together, but you think Smurf is scum?
Also, you still didn't comment on what I said about sinani, and since you're still voting for him I assume you still think he is scum.
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EBWOP: Also, ignoring Smurf for a minute, what do you think about the points I laid out for why I think Acro is scum?
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On March 30 2013 13:50 Keirathi wrote:Show nested quote +On March 30 2013 13:47 ObviousOne wrote:
My list had 6 names. Of the 6, 4 remain. Between Acro and Smurf I preferred Arco earlier. I didn't like how our conversation ended abruptly yesterday and I thought he might be going down quietly as mafia. However in looking at N2 in its entirety and considering that Acro made a case on smurf first, I don't see a reason for that to happen if both are mafia. Acro had suspicions D1 on Smurf, and Smurf's platform against Acro is that Acro Omgus'd Nisani when in fact this very platform against Acro is omgus itself. Ah okay. That makes sense. So you don't think Acro and Smurf are scum together, but you think Smurf is scum? Also, you still didn't comment on what I said about sinani, and since you're still voting for him I assume you still think he is scum.
Replying from iPod so this will be short and I can embellish later.
Your conclusion is that Sinani and Acro can't both be scum. Is that the crux of it?
Between the three of them, why can't Acro just have lucky/smart reads and be the only town among them? Acro more likely to be town than Smurf. Unless I missed more of your case and that's not on purpose, it's because Apple product.
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On March 30 2013 13:56 Keirathi wrote:
EBWOP: Also, ignoring Smurf for a minute, what do you think about the points I laid out for why I think Acro is scum?
I thought he was mafia since N1 up until something you wrote that caused me to reply and muck up the thread a bit when I confused the timeline on their accusations. I'm not saying he's definitely town but of the three he looks the least red.
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On March 30 2013 14:00 ObviousOne wrote:Show nested quote +On March 30 2013 13:50 Keirathi wrote:On March 30 2013 13:47 ObviousOne wrote:
My list had 6 names. Of the 6, 4 remain. Between Acro and Smurf I preferred Arco earlier. I didn't like how our conversation ended abruptly yesterday and I thought he might be going down quietly as mafia. However in looking at N2 in its entirety and considering that Acro made a case on smurf first, I don't see a reason for that to happen if both are mafia. Acro had suspicions D1 on Smurf, and Smurf's platform against Acro is that Acro Omgus'd Nisani when in fact this very platform against Acro is omgus itself. Ah okay. That makes sense. So you don't think Acro and Smurf are scum together, but you think Smurf is scum? Also, you still didn't comment on what I said about sinani, and since you're still voting for him I assume you still think he is scum. Replying from iPod so this will be short and I can embellish later. Your conclusion is that Sinani and Acro can't both be scum. Is that the crux of it? Between the three of them, why can't Acro just have lucky/smart reads and be the only town among them? Acro more likely to be town than Smurf. Unless I missed more of your case and that's not on purpose, it's because Apple product.
The "crux" of my post are all the reasons that I think Acro is scum.
And if I think Acro is scum, I think sinani isn't scum. And I gave some reasons why:
On March 30 2013 12:11 Keirathi wrote:
As far as I can tell, the case on sinani basically boils down to 1) lurking, 2) no strong reads, 3) Nisani thought he was scum, and he thought Nisani was scum, and since they are friends they should know each other better.
So I flipped through 5-6 town sinani games. Just from looking over his filters with no context, in none of them was he exactly a beacon of townieness. He had ~1 page of filter in most. He had very little in the way of reads in most, especially thought out reads (the exception being MLP, where he did have a couple posts with 5-6 lines of solid thought). Hell, I even cross-referenced games that sinani and Nisani were both town in. In Starship, town sinani votes for town Nisani before he got lynched day 1.
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EBWOP: And also why I think Acro's read of sinani is 100% bullshit. Which is an important part of the case.
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Serious question, if his normal town play is that lacking, how are we supposed to evaluate him?
1. He's been prodding at prplhz since the vote thing.
On March 27 2013 04:30 sinani206 wrote:Really? Generally I wouldn't bring suspicion back this far, but if you have a three post filter at the beginning of day 1 and then ninja-vote halfway through the day, that's pretty suspicious. You could be in the middle of writing some really long analysis, but it's already been 40 minutes, so that's doubtful. What's up, man?
prplhz responds to it reasonable:
On March 27 2013 06:22 prplhz wrote:
@Nisani201 How do you feel about that sinani206 guy?
Somehow translates into some kind of fatal attack on sinani:
On March 27 2013 06:28 sinani206 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2013 06:22 prplhz wrote:
@Nisani201 How do you feel about that sinani206 guy? Question for you: what's your problem with me?
Why blow this simple question out of proportion?
Then he attempted to start a nothing-fight with me, like he's more interested in keeping tabs on the voting thread than in keeping up with the game:
On March 28 2013 06:18 sinani206 wrote:
OO ninja vote with 40 minutes left in the day ok.
I did in fact post in the thread immediately after, and he dropped it just as quickly.
Discouraging people discussing things at night... I just disagree with this completely and maybe it's the meta here that talking at night "gives mafia more information"? Maybe that should change.
On March 29 2013 06:48 sinani206 wrote:
Hapa, please stop encouraging people to post vital information at night time. We have 48 hours to discuss the next lynch.
Like shit, it was what, 12 minutes to night post. Why even comment on it at this point?
Day 2, back on the prplhz train. Calling him trolly. His insinuation that prplhz is somehow being useless to town is the epitome of hypocrisy.
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On March 30 2013 14:33 ObviousOne wrote:
Serious question, if his normal town play is that lacking, how are we supposed to evaluate him?
I honestly have no idea.
On March 30 2013 14:33 ObviousOne wrote:1. He's been prodding at prplhz since the vote thing. Show nested quote +On March 27 2013 04:30 sinani206 wrote:On March 27 2013 03:53 prplhz wrote:
##Vote Grackaroni Really? Generally I wouldn't bring suspicion back this far, but if you have a three post filter at the beginning of day 1 and then ninja-vote halfway through the day, that's pretty suspicious. You could be in the middle of writing some really long analysis, but it's already been 40 minutes, so that's doubtful. What's up, man? prplhz responds to it reasonable: Show nested quote +On March 27 2013 06:22 prplhz wrote:
@Nisani201 How do you feel about that sinani206 guy? Somehow translates into some kind of fatal attack on sinani: Show nested quote +On March 27 2013 06:28 sinani206 wrote:On March 27 2013 06:22 prplhz wrote:
@Nisani201 How do you feel about that sinani206 guy? Question for you: what's your problem with me? Why blow this simple question out of proportion?
This could be a valid point, but to me it feels more like a misunderstanding. I don't particularly think he was blowing the question out of proportion, I just think he phrased his counter-question poorly. It reads to me more like a "Do YOU think I'm scum? Why?" type question more than an "OMFG WHY DO YOU HATE ME?" type question.
Anyways, that's just my interpretation of it, but I can concede that I might be wrong and it was just an overreaction.
On March 30 2013 14:33 ObviousOne wrote:Then he attempted to start a nothing-fight with me, like he's more interested in keeping tabs on the voting thread than in keeping up with the game: Show nested quote +On March 28 2013 06:18 sinani206 wrote:
OO ninja vote with 40 minutes left in the day ok. I did in fact post in the thread immediately after, and he dropped it just as quickly.
How is that make him scum, though? Hell, I called out prplhz for his ninja vote earlier in day 1 (in fact, the same ninja vote that sinani called out in the previous quote train). Townies do it, scum does it. Not alignment indicative.
On March 30 2013 14:33 ObviousOne wrote:Discouraging people discussing things at night... I just disagree with this completely and maybe it's the meta here that talking at night "gives mafia more information"? Maybe that should change. Show nested quote +On March 29 2013 06:48 sinani206 wrote:
Hapa, please stop encouraging people to post vital information at night time. We have 48 hours to discuss the next lynch. Like shit, it was what, 12 minutes to night post. Why even comment on it at this point?
Some people on TL just think that night time isn't really the place to start talking about all your reads. I don't agree (especially if we're talking about reads at the deadline), but I don't really fault people for thinking like that. People have different ideals of what they think "good' play is. Everyone plays differently.
On March 30 2013 14:33 ObviousOne wrote:
Day 2, back on the prplhz train. Calling him trolly. His insinuation that prplhz is somehow being useless to town is the epitome of hypocrisy.
And again, how is being a hypocrite a strictly scum trait? Have you never seen a townie be hypocritical?
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Not sure this conversation is going to get us much further between each other, maybe the drunk one(s) will chime in at some point with something fresh. prplhz seems like a really easy target coming from a really easy target, and I don't think prplhz is more likely to flip mafia than sinani. That's the only scum read we have from him too; where is our promised follow up regarding Dandel?
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On March 30 2013 15:06 ObviousOne wrote:
Not sure this conversation is going to get us much further between each other, maybe the drunk one(s) will chime in at some point with something fresh. prplhz seems like a really easy target coming from a really easy target, and I don't think prplhz is more likely to flip mafia than sinani. That's the only scum read we have from him too; where is our promised follow up regarding Dandel?
My entire point is that you are missing the forest for the trees. Do I think sinani is 100% town? No, not even close. Nothing in his play screams town. He's the epitome of the word "null".
So do me a favor.
Go to the database and open the spoiler and click through sinani's town games, and tell me what you think.
Do you think he feels particularly useful?
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Okay, I browsed them to get a feel for them. I really don't know. He hasn't done anything (or not done something he should have) to get modkilled. His filter's past the 2 page mark. I guess I'll unvote him. I'm no expert on meta and I'm probably blasting him for not even trying to be a beacon of shining towniness. You win.
What about Acro? I still don't think that both Acro and Smurf are mafia together.
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EPT
