EPTOn February 26 2013 18:33 Wade Fell wrote:
nope
nope
nope what? Promethelax isn't town, Macho isn't scum, both, or something else entirely?
While you're here could you walk me through the case on Prom?
TL Mafia LX - Page 42
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Aquanim
Australia2849 Posts
nope what? Promethelax isn't town, Macho isn't scum, both, or something else entirely? While you're here could you walk me through the case on Prom? | ||
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Wade Fell
United States501 Posts
also you can find the case here http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=17883535 + Show Spoiler + I have finished preening my Komodo Dragon's feathers and am here to help. Firstly, The only people in this thread making any sense are VE and DrH. Besides them and myself nobody should even be considered for the mayoral role. Randombum's election idea is really, really bad. So bad, it jumps out-- but his thought process tells me it's not scummy. I don't like layabout but I _do_ like his support for a prom lynch. Layabout is no longer my lynch target should I get elected: Promethelax is. Prom has cleverly attacked me in my absence so that this will look like an OMGUS, but it's not. Here's a rundown of prom's RNG discussion. To begin: Prom suggests as his platform RNG (link), states he believes in it utterly (link) and fails to adequately address people questioning whether it will be pure RNG (link) His next mention of RNG is at 09:57 when he makes this post:+ Show Spoiler + On February 26 2013 09:57 Promethelax wrote: Okay, so RNG didn't create the discussion I wanted. Screw you guys. Explain. For the moment my top scum read is WoS, he responded to gerpit's candidacy all wrong, obviously assuming gerpit is town but statistically... He focuses on the likelihood of a night kill on gerpit, he is too interested in night actions and not in the candidacy or the actual ideas which gerpit proposes. I'm not a fan of this post or WoS's mentality. Vote me, screw random lynch. I'll lynch WoS. Other posters have outlined why this is enormously scummy, but also note that he pivots onto WoS here. He votes for VE despite VE saying that prom is on his lynch list, then he martyrs, then he makes this post, 3 hours after his post attacking WoS, attacking me: + Show Spoiler + On February 26 2013 12:50 Promethelax wrote: From  To To omgus I've read wade's posts and he's scum. You should read them too. And this seems, well, fairly normal. Having abandoned RNG in a scummy fashion and martyred his election to mayor (scummy or pissy, your call), he pushes WoS and then decides I'm scum. But examine, for a moment, the post he has in his case against me. He largely quotes me being abrasive, interacting aggressively with others, and calling out layabout, and he says I'm scum. But all these quotes, all these posts, are posts he had at his fingertips when he initially attacked WoS! In fact, that last post about my platform being layabout was posted 30 minutes before his post attacking WoS. So what we have here isn't a townie following the thread whose reads evolve with the time. This is a scum player grasping for someone to point the finger at, someone to blame. This falls perfectly in line with what DrH says here (link) when he quotes from Ver's guide. Ver's guide is telling us that town is earnest, town pushes their reads, town ideas follow a logical train of thought, whereas scum reasoning is warped by the need to support and protect scum teammates. Prom is warped. Elect me, and I will see him lynched. Failing that, my vote goes to those townies who would lynch him. | ||
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Aquanim
Australia2849 Posts
On February 26 2013 18:52 Wade Fell wrote: Nope JJ's post is absolutely terrible. "Oh hey guys i have this thing that will convince you but I'm not gonna say it cause I'm too busy eating babies, having risky sexual encounters, and perpetrating voter fraud in Eastern Europe" is not a legitimate thing you can say in Mafia. Are you saying you think JJ is scum? What does his post being terrible mean? And on Prom, do you think his posturing over RNG is necessarily a scum move? Suggesting a RNG lynch while knowing full well it's a terrible idea is a gambit I've seen before, and "gambit" was the first thing I thought when I saw it. Not sure whether people who did it previously were scum or not though. Still, I don't see how it couldn't be town-motivated, as a method to create discussion. His "case" on you is frankly pretty bad. That being said, I don't see how going back and reading the thread and noticing something you didn't before is scummy as such. | ||
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Aquanim
Australia2849 Posts
Are you saying you think JJ is scum? What does his post being terrible mean in terms of his alignment? | ||
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Wade Fell
United States501 Posts
On February 26 2013 19:10 Aquanim wrote: EBWOP: Are you saying you think JJ is scum? What does his post being terrible mean in terms of his alignment? If I thought JJ was scum he'd be part of my mayoral platform. His post is just shit. People shitpost all the time. I refuse to engage his argument unless he makes it. On February 26 2013 19:09 Aquanim wrote: mkay, thanks. Are you saying you think JJ is scum? What does his post being terrible mean? And on Prom, do you think his posturing over RNG is necessarily a scum move? Suggesting a RNG lynch while knowing full well it's a terrible idea is a gambit I've seen before, and "gambit" was the first thing I thought when I saw it. Not sure whether people who did it previously were scum or not though. Still, I don't see how it couldn't be town-motivated, as a method to create discussion. His "case" on you is frankly pretty bad. That being said, I don't see how going back and reading the thread and noticing something you didn't before is scummy as such. The way he postured over RNG (which was incredibly mildly-- he mentions it only 3 times) and retreats from it, then flails around for a scumread, show a clear scum mindset. Look at his case on me, which includes quotes he LITERALLY HAD ALREADY QUOTED when speaking with me. You don't see how it could be scum motivated? Look at how he scrambles for scumreads, look at his case on me, it's not the result of rereading, it's the result of reinterpreting. His case on me isn't bad (well it is bad, but the point is), his case on me is scummy. The point isn't what the case says, it's the mindset the case _reveals_. His case was a prod, a gesture, an attempt to find a foothold of a wagon he could cling to. Look how he martyrs after his rng is shot down! look how he claims it was "just for discussion" when in fact he didn't press people when the disagreed with him and he made no attempt to generate discussion. There's a theory that prom was trying to generate discussion. That's the theory he's put out there. But nothing he did about RNG indicates he was trying to generate discuss, Did he respond to his critics? Did he shoot them down? Did he get into arguments with them and force them to take positions? NO! What Prom did is he backed down and complained, he made it look like he had tried something and failed, like he tried to help town but wasn't good enough. He made no effort to raise a discussion. He just said "RNG" a couple times and DIPPED and hoped people would think of him as a contributor. And when the pressure was on he revised his ideas without a clear logic train that any townie leaves in his post. He is scum. elect me, elect me so I can kill him. | ||
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Wade Fell
United States501 Posts
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Aquanim
Australia2849 Posts
On February 26 2013 19:15 Wade Fell wrote: You don't see how it could be scum motivated? Look at how he scrambles for scumreads, look at his case on me, it's not the result of rereading, it's the result of reinterpreting. I said I didn't see how it couldn't be town motivated, not that it couldn't be scum motivated. I'ma go digest that response and read the relevant parts of the thread, see if what you've said matches to my perception of reality. | ||
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Wade Fell
United States501 Posts
1) introducing his platform http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=17881631 2) saying he'll lynch himself http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=17881662 3) saying his rng will be random http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=17881701 AND THAT'S IT. HE NEVER MENTIONS IT AGAIN. I mean he insults JJ once, which is cool http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=17881806 but other than that he's like "herp derp not gonna actually discuss things" | ||
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Wade Fell
United States501 Posts
Like wut like srs like wut srs??? how srs are we guys how srs | ||
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The Milkman
Mongolia140 Posts
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Blazinghand
United States25553 Posts
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Blazinghand
United States25553 Posts
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Blazinghand
United States25553 Posts
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Wade Fell
United States501 Posts
On February 26 2013 19:31 Blazinghand wrote: oh, fuck. yeah i'm Wade Fell. I knew I'd do this on D1 I'm shitty at smurfing On February 26 2013 19:31 Blazinghand wrote: how srs On February 26 2013 19:32 Blazinghand wrote: Wow I'm so bad. FUCK IM SO BAD Um, so yeah. when I say "bad" i mean in the "oops I broke my smurf" bad not the "bad like JJ is bad" bad just fyi | ||
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
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Wade Fell
United States501 Posts
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geript
10024 Posts
First off, there are three distinct tones in WoS key post and I'm going to separate them out. A thought popped into my head regarding this...it may be absolutely retarded but you guys will let me know that after the fact, won't you? All this says is that whatever you are about to propose is absolutely retarded. All it says is, "ignore this post." This tone is returned to at the end. Since I am new to this whole durned mafia thing, I am likely to be either ignored or an easy mafia target, keeping the role out of scum's reach. The second tone is the analysis tone: Since the pardoner is inherently more dangerous as a scumrole and the plan to 'kill two birds with one stone' in all likelihood won't (or can't at this point) gain the traction necessary to be carried out, why not give up the role to someone who is likely to be targeted early anyway, or someone who if you are overly suspicious of, you can lynch yourselves anyway? Case and point: a newbie. Basically this says, "trust a newbie to be pardoner." The problem is that his argument falls apart when you really analyze it. You don't want pardoner in the hands of a newbie because it's a free pass for when they get caught for them unless they're lynched D1. I agree with previous analysis, best to put pardoner on the mayor's lynch target. Next the general plea: I graciously offer up myself to be the (possible) sacrificial lamb to do with as you will. If you so choose to lynch me for fear that I am scum, then I go down happily, hopefully bringing as much information to the table as possible before I crash and burn in an epic fireball. If you choose to keep me around, then I will serve the town gladly and I will offer up my pardon to save a deserving person. Since I am new to this whole durned mafia thing, I am likely to be either ignored or an easy mafia target, keeping the role out of scum's reach. This section is especially out of tone for him. I feel like I'm watching C3PO talk to Jabba here. This paragraph especially feels forced; the diction is all wrong for him. His posts are little more than mimicry than anything else in general but this paragraph is nothing of the sort. Next, I actually have to agree with what Prome said. The difference between Vivax response and WoS response is that Vivax actually attacks the argument (If you do A+B then no way you get to C). WoS response was essentially, "You got NK last game." WoS is playing excited this game. Even when he's grabbed a touch of heat, he's not been the slightest concerned about it and continues to "counterpressure" with bleh. I'm going to reread the thread a few times before I head to bed and sleep on it but for right now Vivax and WoS are on the top of my list but I'd need a flip to make a strong case. | ||
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Aquanim
Australia2849 Posts
On February 26 2013 19:19 Wade Fell wrote: If Prom was really trying to raise discussion with his rng as he claims, he'd have actually gotten into discussions with people. Any townie would naturally get arguing and get involved as people disagreed with him, especially one who was taking a position specifically for the purpose of starting discussions. A town Prom, if he did this, would have a bunch of posts, quote chains of him discussing RNG with haters, drumming up support, etc, and forcing scum to take stances. That's what a town player bringing up discussion looks like. Prom does NOT do this. Prom is scum. OK, I buy this. ##Vote: Wade Fell I'm still in favour of a lynch on Obvious because I feel like he overreacted to my pressure on him and since my interaction with him all he has is a filter page's worth of useless fluff. In fact, all of Obvious's filter is useless fluff. There's more than one scum in the game though and I agree, Prom's failure to actually try to make anything happen with his RNG gambit does not evoke towny feelings. | ||
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Aquanim
Australia2849 Posts
On February 26 2013 19:43 geript wrote: First off, there are three distinct tones in WoS key post and I'm going to separate them out. All this says is that whatever you are about to propose is absolutely retarded. All it says is, "ignore this post." This tone is returned to at the end. The second tone is the analysis tone: Basically this says, "trust a newbie to be pardoner." The problem is that his argument falls apart when you really analyze it. You don't want pardoner in the hands of a newbie because it's a free pass for when they get caught for them unless they're lynched D1. I agree with previous analysis, best to put pardoner on the mayor's lynch target. Next the general plea: This section is especially out of tone for him. I feel like I'm watching C3PO talk to Jabba here. This paragraph especially feels forced; the diction is all wrong for him. His posts are little more than mimicry than anything else in general but this paragraph is nothing of the sort. Next, I actually have to agree with what Prome said. The difference between Vivax response and WoS response is that Vivax actually attacks the argument (If you do A+B then no way you get to C). WoS response was essentially, "You got NK last game." WoS is playing excited this game. Even when he's grabbed a touch of heat, he's not been the slightest concerned about it and continues to "counterpressure" with bleh. I'm going to reread the thread a few times before I head to bed and sleep on it but for right now Vivax and WoS are on the top of my list but I'd need a flip to make a strong case. You claim that WoS is speaking in "different tones". What is your actual point? And do you claim that being excited makes WoS scum? In fact what are you saying here at all besides spraying inconclusive, uncommittal suspicion at WoS? | ||
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
On February 26 2013 19:44 Aquanim wrote: OK, I buy this. ##Vote: Wade Fell I'm still in favour of a lynch on Obvious because I feel like he overreacted to my pressure on him and since my interaction with him all he has is a filter page's worth of useless fluff. In fact, all of Obvious's filter is useless fluff. There's more than one scum in the game though and I agree, Prom's failure to actually try to make anything happen with his RNG gambit does not evoke towny feelings. the most important thing is that a townie prom who really wanted to get more discussion out of it than he did; that's what he himself said was his intention was when asked about why he's so "mad" would not have backed out of this 1 hour into the game because he's so scared about looking bad. A townie-Prom would have rode the train a little longer if his intentions was to create discussion instead of screaming like a I BE JOKING, PLS NO LYNCH ME like a little girl to, you know, create discussion instead of singlehandedly stopping all the discussion that could have been created that way by telling people his supposed to be intentions. While that might be a nooby-grush-like trait for most people (people doing something without thinking it through and therefore not knowing how to do what they want to do) I don't think prom is that bad as town and the girlish, screaming overdefensive tone, trying to make sure he's not looking bad while trying to create discussion sure does the rest. That begs the question why he's still alive. Perhaps we don't have a dayvig  | ||
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